Jennings for Lidge/Ensberg

[Andyzipp]

No real details to share, but "sources say" there's some heat around this.

If it goes down, Lamb would be the everyday 3rd sacker, barring Huff's price dropping a substantial amount.

[BizidyDizidy]

It's probably a good trade, but Ensberg could end up MVP in Colorado. Is Jennings that much better than Westbrook that it's worth giving him up as well?

[CarolinaStro]

Seems a little steep.  Not bad if a contract is agreed upon.  IMO, Huff is a necessity in this scenario.

[CarolinaStro]

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It's probably a good trade, but Ensberg could end up MVP in Colorado. Is Jennings that much better than Westbrook that it's worth giving him up as well?

Jennings is more impressive than Westbrook especially considering the Coors factor.  Jennings could be a #2 whereas Jake is more of a #4 type (who seems to be regressing every year).

[BizidyDizidy]

Before last year, Jennings posted 3 straight years of 5+ ERAs. Last year that came down to 3.7, but interestingly he was better at home than on the road. He did go to Baylor though.

[jaklewein]

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It's probably a good trade, but Ensberg could end up MVP in Colorado. Is Jennings that much better than Westbrook that it's worth giving him up as well?

Actually, COL already has pretty good players at the corners, so my guess is that COL would then spin Ensberg off to another team.  Possibly the Twins?

[Froback]

Price is too steep, now if it was Jennings and Adkins... That would work.  Or Jennings and their top Minor League 3B. (name escapes me at the moment)

[jaklewein]

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Price is too steep, now if it was Jennings and Adkins... That would work.  Or Jennings and their top Minor League 3B. (name escapes me at the moment)

Ian Stewart

[Uncle Charlie]

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Price is too steep, now if it was Jennings and Adkins... That would work.  Or Jennings and their top Minor League 3B. (name escapes me at the moment)

Colordado doens't need a 3B (Atkins/Baker/Stewart) nor do they really need a closer type (Fuentes).  However, as Fro says if Atkins is coming back you can certainly see something like that happening.

Colorado also needs help at CF, which is why they have pursued Burke.  O'Dowd has also stipulated he wanted starting pitching potential in return for Jennings.

[JimR]

so, all you experts are telling Andy his source is full of it? this is a good example why it is not worth the time it takes to post stuff you hear from people who know.

[Jacksonian]

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Price is too steep, now if it was Jennings and Adkins... That would work.  Or Jennings and their top Minor League 3B. (name escapes me at the moment)

Lidge for Jennings and Ensberg for Atkins? I don't know how the Rockies see the Astros players but Jennings and Atkins for Lidge and Ensberg would be a total steal for the Astros, IMO.  I'd look into Ensberg, Burke, Buchholz for Jennings and Atkins.  If they insist on Lidge I'd look to downgrade from Burke to Josh Anderson or Buchholz to Chance Douglass and hold back Ensberg.  So for me, it would be Ensberg and Burke for Jennings and Buchholz for Atkins. Or, Lidge for Jennings and Burke/Douglass or Buchholz/Anderson for Atkins.

Damn that shit can get complicated.  I hope Purp can still read his scorecard after day 1.

[jaklewein]

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so, all you experts are telling Andy his source is full of it? this is a good example why it is not worth the time it takes to post stuff you hear from people who know.

"all"?  I think not.  I'm sure there are plenty of people who appreciate Andy's info.  I know I do.

[pravata]

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so, all you experts are telling Andy his source is full of it? this is a good example why it is not worth the time it takes to post stuff you hear from people who know.

The "reality" is that some of these people are FAR more interested in exploring, and displaying, what they think and feel about the Astros than following the Astros. They are influenced by the "views instead of news" fad.

[Jacksonian]

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so, all you experts are telling Andy his source is full of it? this is a good example why it is not worth the time it takes to post stuff you hear from people who know.

"all"?  I think not.  I'm sure there are plenty of people who appreciate Andy's info.  I know I do.

I agree.  Not all. Some are saying he's full of it.  And, they're stupid to do so.  I agree with you also that if Ensberg does go to Colorado, they'll deal one of their 3b to another club.

[Andyzipp]

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so, all you experts are telling Andy his source is full of it? this is a good example why it is not worth the time it takes to post stuff you hear from people who know.

Nah, Jim...I'm just talking out of my ass.  You know how I love to make stuff up on this board.

[Arky Vaughan]

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The "reality" is that some of these people are FAR more interested in exploring, and displaying, what they think and feel about the Astros than following the Astros.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I do think it's useful to observe the distinction.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Nah, Jim...I'm just talking out of my ass.  You know how I love to make stuff up on this board.

How much salary would moving Ensberg and Lidge clear off the books?

[S.P. Rodriguez]

More smoke building?   trade speculation out of Denver

[Arky Vaughan]

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More smoke building?   trade speculation out of Denver

"Jennings' situation remains fluid. The Astros - Taylor Buchholz likely would be requested by the Rockies, with outfielder Chris Burke unavailable - and Rangers (reliever C.J. Wilson is attractive) are in the mix."

[Bench]

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More smoke building?   trade speculation out of Denver

"Jennings' situation remains fluid. The Astros - Taylor Buchholz likely would be requested by the Rockies, with outfielder Chris Burke unavailable - and Rangers (reliever C.J. Wilson is attractive) are in the mix."

The Twins reportedly have  some irons in the Jennings fire as well.

This article reports the Twins are trying to push Rincon or Crain and Scott Baker or Glen Perkins.

There's definately a lot of heat around Jennings right now. It should be interesting to see what happens.

[Uncle Charlie]

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so, all you experts are telling Andy his source is full of it? this is a good example why it is not worth the time it takes to post stuff you hear from people who know.

I don't think he's full of it.  Just stating that Colorado has a plethora of 3B right now, so in all likely hood a 3B would need to leave in the deal OR a deal right after.

Beyond that, just pointing out the needs that are obvious to COL (future SP and CF) as the GM himself has identified along with many others.

[Froback]

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so, all you experts are telling Andy his source is full of it? this is a good example why it is not worth the time it takes to post stuff you hear from people who know.

Nah, Jim...I'm just talking out of my ass.  You know how I love to make stuff up on this board.

I am not knocking Andy with my comments, just that I would hope to land more than just Jennings for Lidge and Ensberg.  I think getting Adkins would maybe too much for our side, so having to throw in someone else on our side might be needed, but that is kindof how negotiations go.  Seller asks for too much, buyer offers too little and you meet at some acceptible compromise.

[JimR]

read pravata's point: you respond to Andy's information by telling us all what YOU want. why?

[Froback]

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read pravata's point: you respond to Andy's information by telling us all what YOU want. why?

Shit Jim, if none of us offered any opinions, I doubt this board would have much activity at all.  I was simply responding to the post more of a comment on it.  If the Astros make that deal, guess what, I will support the team for it.  If they don't, I will support the team for it.  The fact that I would like to see some tweaking to it isn't a knock on it at all.

I do not feel my comments in anyway disregard what Andy has heard.  Because it is specific and possible, gives us an avenue to speculate on the things Tim might be looking at and working for.  But given the amount of teams "supposedly" looking for Lidge, I just don't think Jennings is enough for him AND Ensberg, who while we are down on him, I don't think the rest of the league is down on him.

[pravata]

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read pravata's point: you respond to Andy's information by telling us all what YOU want. why?

Shit Jim, if none of us offered any opinions, I doubt this board would have much activity at all.  I was simply responding to the post more of a comment on it.  If the Astros make that deal, guess what, I will support the team for it.  If they don't, I will support the team for it.  The fact that I would like to see some tweaking to it isn't a knock on it at all.

I do not feel my comments in anyway disregard what Andy has heard.  Because it is specific and possible, gives us an avenue to speculate on the things Tim might be looking at and working for.  But given the amount of teams "supposedly" looking for Lidge, I just don't think Jennings is enough for him AND Ensberg, who while we are down on him, I don't think the rest of the league is down on him.

Then this is a much tougher question, why are the Astros pursuing this deal?

[Arky Vaughan]

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But given the amount of teams "supposedly" looking for Lidge, I just don't think Jennings is enough for him AND Ensberg, who while we are down on him, I don't think the rest of the league is down on him.

So are you saying (1) that the information Andy posted isn't accurate, because you think Jennings is not enough for Lidge and Ensberg, or are you saying (2) that if the Astros do give up Lidge and Ensberg for Jennings, you think they're giving up too much?

[toddthebod]

This morning, Steve Phillips was talking about a three-way deal that he says has some traction between the Rockies, the Cubs, and the Pirates.  I don't recall the details excatly, but it had the Cubs sending a pither and Jaque Jones to the Rockies for Jennings, the Rockies would send Brad Hawpe to the Pirates and would receive Paul Maholm from Pittsburgh.  As I said, I don't recall all of the details.  But I would be much more interested in a deal with the Rockies if the Astros would be getting Hawpe as well as Jennings in return for Ensberg and Lidge.

[Arky Vaughan]

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Then this is a much tougher question, why are the Astros pursuing this deal?

Moving Lidge and Ensberg gets $8 million or more off the payroll.

[Jacksonian]

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read pravata's point: you respond to Andy's information by telling us all what YOU want. why?

Shit Jim, if none of us offered any opinions, I doubt this board would have much activity at all.  I was simply responding to the post more of a comment on it.  If the Astros make that deal, guess what, I will support the team for it.  If they don't, I will support the team for it.  The fact that I would like to see some tweaking to it isn't a knock on it at all.

I do not feel my comments in anyway disregard what Andy has heard.  Because it is specific and possible, gives us an avenue to speculate on the things Tim might be looking at and working for.  But given the amount of teams "supposedly" looking for Lidge, I just don't think Jennings is enough for him AND Ensberg, who while we are down on him, I don't think the rest of the league is down on him.

Then this is a much tougher question, why are the Astros pursuing this deal?

It's not tough at all.  Andy didn't say it was a done deal. He said there was heat around it.  It may happen just like that.  May not happen at all.  May be that deal with modifications...  Everyone needs to take a breath.  If Andy or anyone else hears something different or a done deal I'm sure they'll let us know.

[pravata]

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Then this is a much tougher question, why are the Astros pursuing this deal?

Moving Lidge and Ensberg gets $8 million or more off the payroll.

Not offering them contracts would do the same thing.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Quote:
This morning, Steve Phillips was talking about a three-way deal that he says has some traction between the Rockies, the Cubs, and the Pirates.  I don't recall the details excatly, but it had the Cubs sending a pither and Jaque Jones to the Rockies for Jennings, the Rockies would send Brad Hawpe to the Pirates and would receive Paul Maholm from Pittsburgh.  As I said, I don't recall all of the details.  But I would be much more interested in a deal with the Rockies if the Astros would be getting Hawpe as well as Jennings in return for Ensberg and Lidge.

Cabrera's a brave.  Posted that link a while back...

and Yes, the tweak of Lidge, Ensberg, and maybe Buchholtz (as was referenced in the article) for Hawpe and Jennings is a much more appealing idea, at least for me.

I'm still baffled by Colorado's interest in Ensberg given 2 pretty promising young 3Bs.  I'm not trying to dispute the information, just make sense of it.  Maybe Houston gets one of those promising young 3B's (an organizational weakness no?).  Colorado has a history of rejuvenating players, I suppose.  Preston Wilson, Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, just to name three and Ensberg has had some great stretches.

[pravata]

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read pravata's point: you respond to Andy's information by telling us all what YOU want. why?

Shit Jim, if none of us offered any opinions, I doubt this board would have much activity at all.  I was simply responding to the post more of a comment on it.  If the Astros make that deal, guess what, I will support the team for it.  If they don't, I will support the team for it.  The fact that I would like to see some tweaking to it isn't a knock on it at all.

I do not feel my comments in anyway disregard what Andy has heard.  Because it is specific and possible, gives us an avenue to speculate on the things Tim might be looking at and working for.  But given the amount of teams "supposedly" looking for Lidge, I just don't think Jennings is enough for him AND Ensberg, who while we are down on him, I don't think the rest of the league is down on him.

Then this is a much tougher question, why are the Astros pursuing this deal?

It's not tough at all.  Andy didn't say it was a done deal. He said there was heat around it.  It may happen just like that.  May not happen at all.  May be that deal with modifications...  Everyone needs to take a breath.  If Andy or anyone else hears something different or a done deal I'm sure they'll let us know.

I think there is more here than we're accounting for.  And, of course it may or may not happen. Consider, in the light of this, (in Lopez's column) "Purpura is adamant that he has told teams he is not inclined to trade his relievers, because he doesn't want to weaken one of the Astros' strengths."

[Arky Vaughan]

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Not offering them contracts would do the same thing.

True. As you point out, there's more than meets the eye -- as always.

[Andyzipp]

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It's not tough at all.  Andy didn't say it was a done deal. He said there was heat around it.  It may happen just like that.  May not happen at all.  May be that deal with modifications...  Everyone needs to take a breath.  If Andy or anyone else hears something different or a done deal I'm sure they'll let us know.

...and Boom goes the dynamite!

[pravata]

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It's not tough at all.  Andy didn't say it was a done deal. He said there was heat around it.  It may happen just like that.  May not happen at all.  May be that deal with modifications...  Everyone needs to take a breath.  If Andy or anyone else hears something different or a done deal I'm sure they'll let us know.

...and Boom goes the dynamite!

Anybody looked at next seasons FA list lately?

[Froback]

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Anybody looked at next seasons FA list lately?

 Link for "potential" 2007 FAs
Mike Young is the only one that excites me very much, and I doubt Texas lets him go easily.
ETA: And Carlos Zambrano (but Cubs are idiots if they let him go)

[jaklewein]

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Quote:
Anybody looked at next seasons FA list lately?

 Link for "potential" 2007 FAs
Mike Young is the only one that excites me very much, and I doubt Texas lets him go easily.
ETA: And Carlos Zambrano (but Cubs are idiots if they let him go)

I'm a pretty big fan of Marcus Giles.  If Burke was to get traded...I'd love for him to take over for Bidge in 2008.  He's not as good as Bidge was in his prime, but he similar in a lot of ways...starting with the fact that he plays balls-out ever game.  Injuries have been a problem, but it's mostly been bad luck type things.

[DVauthrin]

Both seems like a steep price to pay fot Jennings.   I would want to keep lidge out of the deal, and find something else to add that would be easier to part with.

Lidge had been out of this world until last year, and I would rather not sell him at his low water mark value wise.

[BudGirl]

I don't think this would be a bad deal.  Clears salary.  I don't think Garner will come out and say it, cause it is wrong to do so, but I think he wants Ensberg to succeed with another team.  Moving Ensberg may be the thing that causes Huff to lower his price.  He may sign at a lower salary if he knows he will be the 3rd sacker.  This also gets the Astros another starter.

Dealing Lidge may hurt the bullpen, but if Nieve is being taught (can't think of a better word right now) to close games, then Lidge might be viewed as expendable.

And why does anyone care what Colorado would do with Ensberg?

[JackAstro]

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It's not tough at all.  Andy didn't say it was a done deal. He said there was heat around it.  It may happen just like that.  May not happen at all.  May be that deal with modifications...  Everyone needs to take a breath.  If Andy or anyone else hears something different or a done deal I'm sure they'll let us know.

...and Boom goes the dynamite!

Boom goes the dynamite is old and busted. "Hibachi!" is the new hotness, per Gilbert Arenas.

In other news, "old and busted"/"new hotness" is also old and busted. It's not yet clear what the new new hotness is. If your sources have any information on this, please share.

[MusicMan]

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In other news, "old and busted"/"new hotness" is also old and busted.

A phrase from a crappy movie from 4 years ago has outlived its shelf life?

"No wayyyyy!"
"WAY!"

[stubbyc]

Ringolsby is speculating Taveras and a pitcher for Jennings.

[strobum]

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This morning, Steve Phillips was talking about a three-way deal...

You don't mean the same Steve Phillips who was the worst GM in the history of ever, do you? The same guy who was given a magical checkbook with unlimited blank checks and used it to build a team that finished in last place - despite having the highest payroll in the National League. For the record, during that fateful 2001-2002 offseason Phillips signed and/or traded for Roberto Alomar Jr., Roger Cedeno, Mo Vaughn, Shawn Estes and Pedro Astacio. I don't put too much stock in anything he says.

[toddthebod]

Yeah.  I also think that Phillips is a putz.  The fact that he even has a job after the way he ran the SteM is mind-boggling. But he's ESPN's GM.

[das]

 

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so, all you experts are telling Andy his source is full of it? this is a good example why it is not worth the time it takes to post stuff you hear from people who know.  

It is worth the time, jim.  Those of us that appreciate it just don't run around with our pants around our ankles...

[DVauthrin]

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so, all you experts are telling Andy his source is full of it? this is a good example why it is not worth the time it takes to post stuff you hear from people who know.  

It is worth the time, jim.  Those of us that appreciate it just don't run around with our pants around our ankles...

I agree, I love getting inside info about trades/scoops from posters here.   People criticizing respected posters sources need to look in the mirror and grow up.  It would be a shame if we lost this info because some people don't know how to behave.

[strosrays]

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I think there is more here than we're accounting for.  And, of course it may or may not happen. Consider, in the light of this, (in Lopez's column) "Purpura is adamant that he has told teams he is not inclined to trade his relievers, because he doesn't want to weaken one of the Astros' strengths."  

Short of that, there are tea leaves.  They work sometimes.  Of course, they chop 'em up pretty small before the sew them into those little bags.  You might need a magnifying glass.

Then there's always dumbassburger4's entrails. . .

[Craig]

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so, all you experts are telling Andy his source is full of it? this is a good example why it is not worth the time it takes to post stuff you hear from people who know.  

It is worth the time, jim.  Those of us that appreciate it just don't run around with our pants around our ankles...

And some of us appreciate it AND have our pants down. I just try to keep my ass pointed in the right direction. At the Mets.

[BUWebguy]

Rosenthal's latest:

"The Astros made an offer for Rockies right-hander Jason Jennings, but the talks sputtered when the Astros refused to include right-hander Jason Hirsh."

 link

[Uncle Charlie]

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Rosenthal's latest:

"The Astros made an offer for Rockies right-hander Jason Jennings, but the talks sputtered when the Astros refused to include right-hander Jason Hirsh."

 link

I imagine that the name Hirsh being thrown out there was met with blank stares.

Maybe I wear brick & sand colored glasses, but Hirsh sure doesn't seem to be far away from Jennings today in terms of ability to deliver in 2007.  On top of that Hirsh has 6 yrs left under club control while Jennings has just 1.

[Twoniner]

  99% of these trade proposals are really just making sure the other guy isn't a drooling idiot ready to sell the farm for someone like Jason Jennings.

[Outlawscotty]

New update from Denver.....

 Denver Post

[Arky Vaughan]

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New update from Denver.....

 Denver Post

An update, or just speculation and regurgitation?

"After a deal collapsed for the White Sox's Jon Garland and with Andy Pettitte's return in limbo, the Astros may make another run at Jennings. The Rockies would be seeking starter Jason Hirsch and either center fielder Willy Taveras or reliever Dan Wheeler."

[hostros7]

I would not trade any combination of Hirsh, Wheeler, and Taveras for Jennings straight up.  Maybe not even if they threw in Hawpe...which--word has been--they won't. Then again, I type instead of calling the shots.

[Outlawscotty]

Both I guess.....new names speculated (not Lidge, Ensberg.)

[No? in Austin]

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New update from Denver.....

 Denver Post

An update, or just speculation and regurgitation?

"After a deal collapsed for the White Sox's Jon Garland and with Andy Pettitte's return in limbo, the Astros may make another run at Jennings. The Rockies would be seeking starter Jason Hirsch and either center fielder Willy Taveras or reliever Dan Wheeler."

I think Hirsh and Taveras for Jennings (*only one year*) is a high price to pay.  This might be more fodder for Andy Pettitte's agents sake to consider that if they have to, the Astros will indeed walk away from strong arm tatics soon and obtain another pitcher.

I hope the Hendrick Brothers understand that this is not 2005 and the Beltran effect has worn off on the Astros.

[jaklewein]

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Both I guess.....new names speculated (not Lidge, Ensberg.)

Just to clarify...Lidge & Ensberg are the only names that don't involve speculation...thanks to Mr. Zipp.

[jaklewein]

 (*only one year*)

I'm thinking that any trade involving any players of worth from the Astros' side would have to include a negotiated extension from Jennings as part of the deal coming back, no?

[Uncle Charlie]

Some more from the post:

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The Rockies have made their preference known. To move Jennings, last year's opening day starter, they'd like young right-handed starter Jason Hirsch, 24, and either center fielder Willy Taveras or reliever Dan Wheeler.  

and then....

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"It has to be a good baseball deal," Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd said this week. "We aren't trading him for A-ball prospects."  

That's quite a gap:  Hirsh and a major leaguer versus A-ball prospects.

Jennings is a #3 with 1 year left of service time.  I'd be very, very suprised if the Astros were to give up  that asking price.

[JimR]

i'd do Hirsh and Taveras for a multi-year deal with Jennings. not for just one year, and i wish Taveras would not be traded.

if Willy goes, and Lane is in CF, there are many questions that cannot be answered without seeing how he does there. i'd much, much rather have WT's speed on the team.

[No? in Austin]

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i'd do Hirsh and Taveras for a multi-year deal with Jennings. not for just one year, and i wish Taveras would not be traded.

if Willy goes, and Lane is in CF, there are many questions that cannot be answered without seeing how he does there. i'd much, much rather have WT's speed on the team.

I see where the Rockies called Houston as soon as they found out that Houston almost landed Jon Garland.  Were they thinking they could fleece Houston or were they thinking they better take what they can get from Houston before Hirsh is out of the picture?

I'm thinking the latter.  So my suspicion is that Hirsh for Jennings will be a deal talked about.  Houston may be asked to add another prospect, lower level.  Say something in line with the Phillie/ChiSox trade for Freddie Garcia.  Garcia got the ChiSox prospect Gavin Floyd and lower prospect Gio Gonzales.  Hirsh and a lower prospect for Jennings (one year rental).

Deal?

[DVauthrin]

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i'd do Hirsh and Taveras for a multi-year deal with Jennings. not for just one year, and i wish Taveras would not be traded.

if Willy goes, and Lane is in CF, there are many questions that cannot be answered without seeing how he does there. i'd much, much rather have WT's speed on the team.

I see where the Rockies called Houston as soon as they found out that Houston almost landed Jon Garland.  Were they thinking they could fleece Houston or were they thinking they better take what they can get from Houston before Hirsh is out of the picture?

I'm thinking the latter.  So my suspicion is that Hirsh for Jennings will be a deal talked about.  Houston may be asked to add another prospect, lower level.  Say something in line with the Phillie/ChiSox trade for Freddie Garcia.  Garcia got the ChiSox prospect Gavin Floyd and lower prospect Gio Gonzales.  Hirsh and a lower prospect for Jennings (one year rental).

Deal?

Tough one but i'd say sure, and resign Huff for the icing on the cake.

Btw, if they had jennings/williams, those are two above average hitting SP, so you may not need to burn ph's as early with them compared to other pitchers  

[jaklewein]

From KenR:

 The Astros remain interested in Jennings, though it's unlikely they would part with talented young players such as right-hander Jason Hirsh and center fielder Willy Taveras unless they signed Jennings to an extension as part of the deal. Jennings attended Baylor University in Houston . . .

Good.  As I've said...I'd surely hate for the Astros to part with Hirsh and Willy in any deal for Jennings, but if KenR knows what he's talking about, at least it won't be for just one year.

The Link

[bubba]

But, when did they move Baylor to Houston?

[Andyzipp]

Jennings is a doctor, obviously.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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Jennings is a doctor, obviously.

That's right.  But he realized he'd never make money in medicine in Texas because, as hill-billy 'necks, we only pay our doctors in livestock.

[Andyzipp]

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Jennings is a doctor, obviously.

That's right.  But he realized he'd never make money in medicine in Texas because, as hill-billy 'necks, we only pay our doctors in livestock.

You pay your doctors?  I collect medical debt and then file Chapter 11 every 5 years or so.

It's so much easier than writing checks.