Wonder what percent were from OWA

[BizidyDizidy]

http://deadspin.com/an-astros-game-had-just-1-000-tv-viewers-1333179616

[HudsonHawk]

What Nielsen doesn't take into account is "non-household" viewing, such as sports bars, restaurants, college dorms, etc.  Bars are the only place I know that have Comcast.  Seriously...not a single person I know has Comcast.  At any rate, the message to the Astros should be loud and clear...people can't watch what you don't make available.

[Bench]

What Nielsen doesn't take into account is "non-household" viewing, such as sports bars, restaurants, college dorms, etc.  Bars are the only place I know that have Comcast.  Seriously...not a single person I know has Comcast.  At any rate, the message to the Astros should be loud and clear...people can't watch what you don't make available.

You're certainly right, but I'd add that most sports bars have DirecTV, rather than Comcast, for the pro-football.  Some in Houston added Comcast towards the end of the Rockets season as they were heading for the playoffs and it didn't seem like a deal with CSN would be worked out any time soon.  Most "regular" bars that have Comcast probably wouldn't have the Astros on anyway, especially on a college football Saturday even if they knew that CSN was a channel.  They would just have ESPN or CBS on.

[HudsonHawk]

You're certainly right, but I'd add that most sports bars have DirecTV, rather than Comcast, for the pro-football.  Some in Houston added Comcast towards the end of the Rockets season as they were heading for the playoffs and it didn't seem like a deal with CSN would be worked out any time soon.  Most "regular" bars that have Comcast probably wouldn't have the Astros on anyway, especially on a college football Saturday even if they knew that CSN was a channel.  They would just have ESPN or CBS on.

Most sports bars I know have both DirecTV and Comcast, for those reasons.  If they can't show baseball or basketball, they're not going to fare well as a "sports" bar. 

[Limey]

It's a lost season for the Astros, and the weather is cooling down, and there was a Dynamo game on at the time, and CSN Houston isn't available in many households. It happens. I'm just worried about Sept. 29th, when the Astros go up against the Texans game.

Blutarsky.

[BudGirl]

Seriously...not a single person I know has Comcast. 

So, you are the one that has me on ignore.

[HudsonHawk]

So, you are the one that has me on ignore.

[earplugs] La la la la la la la la [/earplugs]

[T. J.]

And it just gets worse. According to Nielsen, nobody watched the game yesterday. . Article does give more information on exactly how many Nielsen viewers there are, however.

[Fredia]

i would watch all astros games and plan to the next three. go astros.. somone just give me the #$%# channel
thank you

[hostros7]

Blutarsky.

http://blog.chron.com/sportsupdate/2013/09/according-to-nielsen-nobody-watched-astros-indians-game-sunday/

[NeilT]

I wish I could have watched that game just so I could have turned it off.

[subnuclear]

In other baseball TV news, Fox won't blackout out-of-market Saturday games for EI or MLB.tv customers starting in 2014.

[chuck]

While we're talking about total futility there's a piece that I suspect many of you read that deserves mention:

Ouch.

I know that a lot of Astros fans are excited about the future and surely that's a comfortable place to be until the team's leadership begins trading away any and all arb-eligible players. But was it really necessary to be so historically bad in so many areas to rebuild in an effective manner? Was it really necessary to tarnish the team's history and shame the team's fans, or at least those that remain?

It's a thoroughly disgraceful episode if the word episode can be used to describe a three year trajectory.

[Fynn]

While we're talking about total futility there's a piece that I suspect many of you read that deserves mention:

Ouch.

I know that a lot of Astros fans are excited about the future and surely that's a comfortable place to be until the team's leadership begins trading away any and all arb-eligible players. But was it really necessary to be so historically bad in so many areas to rebuild in an effective manner? Was it really necessary to tarnish the team's history and shame the team's fans, or at least those that remain?

It's a thoroughly disgraceful episode if the word episode can be used to describe a three year trajectory.

And how 'bout this, Astros fans-it won't be much better next year.   The validity of Luhnow's "plan" won't be evident for at least two more years (more likely, three) when we start seeing Luhnow's picks filter up to the club.  That will be an exciting time, but thinking about a couple more years of what we have seen lately makes me want to puke.

[roadrunner]

I'm beginning to think the network will fold.

[BudGirl]

And how 'bout this, Astros fans-it won't be much better next year.   The validity of Luhnow's "plan" won't be evident for at least two more years (more likely, three) when we start seeing Luhnow's picks filter up to the club.  That will be an exciting time, but thinking about a couple more years of what we have seen lately makes me want to puke.

I was thinking that if the team is pretty much the same next season why would we expect different results?

[Bench]

I was thinking that if the team is pretty much the same next season why would we expect different results?

I like to think that I'm much better at my job now than I was my first year. 

[BudGirl]

I like to think that I'm much better at my job now than I was my first year. 

Are they better at the end of the season than there were at the beginning?

[Bench]

Are they better at the end of the season than there were at the beginning?

No, but they are more tired. It's a long season for those young fellas.

[austro]

Ouch.

He could have at least mentioned their pursuit of the DP record.

[Bench]

He could have at least mentioned their pursuit of the DP record.

Isn't that just a team record and not a league record?

[subnuclear]

I know that a lot of Astros fans are excited about the future and surely that's a comfortable place to be until the team's leadership begins trading away any and all arb-eligible players. But was it really necessary to be so historically bad in so many areas to rebuild in an effective manner? Was it really necessary to tarnish the team's history and shame the team's fans, or at least those that remain?

It's a thoroughly disgraceful episode if the word episode can be used to describe a three year trajectory.

I'm not sure I'm excited yet. A lot of things can go wrong with young players, even 1-1s and so forth. I'm good at having low expectations, though.

Watching the Nationals this year has been much harder in some ways.

[David in Jackson]

While we're talking about total futility there's a piece that I suspect many of you read that deserves mention:

Ouch.

I know that a lot of Astros fans are excited about the future and surely that's a comfortable place to be until the team's leadership begins trading away any and all arb-eligible players. But was it really necessary to be so historically bad in so many areas to rebuild in an effective manner? Was it really necessary to tarnish the team's history and shame the team's fans, or at least those that remain?

It's a thoroughly disgraceful episode if the word episode can be used to describe a three year trajectory.

I'm exhausted.  I was more than ready for the dismissal of Wade and for a 21st century organization with a plan.  I've been patient.

However, this scorched earth rebuild is really without precedent.  Three years of stripping all the parts and terrible baseball.  Does the plan take four years?  Five?  I think it's a fair question to ask: How much can the fan base take?  Is anyone watching?

I'm encouraged that is sounds like the front office will look to acquire actual major leaguers for next season.  Watching this team for three years has been brutal.

[JimR]

I'm exhausted.  I was more than ready for the dismissal of Wade and for a 21st century organization with a plan.  I've been patient.

However, this scorched earth rebuild is really without precedent.  Three years of stripping all the parts and terrible baseball.  Does the plan take four years?  Five?  I think it's a fair question to ask: How much can the fan base take?  Is anyone watching?

I'm encouraged that is sounds like the front office will look to acquire actual major leaguers for next season.  Watching this team for three years has been brutal.

it has not been terrible baseball. the team has made progress despite the W-L. if you are so disgusted with it, don't watch.

[Mr. Happy]

it has not been terrible baseball. the team has made progress despite the W-L. if you are so disgusted with it, don't watch.

+1

[David in Jackson]

I'm an Astros fan.  I'm sticking with the team.  I watch and listen as much as I can every day.  I had some optimism in spring training.  I thought we would not lose 100 games.

The team is seven games worse than the 29th team in the majors.  Worst ERA in baseball.  Most errors in baseball.  Bad baserunning - mental mistakes.  On the positive side, 24th in offense.  By what definition is this not terrible?

I believe in what Luhnow has been doing.   I know what McLane left.  I know radical steps were needed and that pain (three years of being the worst team in the major leagues) was necessary.

I'm simply saying that I think for a lot of Astros fans in saying that we're worn out.

[austro]

Isn't that just a team record and not a league record?

Yeah, I guess so. It looks like the all-time record of 217 is held by the Philadelpia A's in 1949. And here's a big surprise: Maz holds the single-season record for double plays involving a second baseman, with 161 (11 better than the next best total). Altuve has 113 right now.

[Ty in Tampa]

I thought we would not lose 100 games.

They didn't.

[David in Jackson]

They didn't.

What do you think they are shooting for next year?

[juliogotay]

I'm an Astros fan.  I'm sticking with the team.  I watch and listen as much as I can every day.  I had some optimism in spring training.  I thought we would not lose 100 games.

The team is seven games worse than the 29th team in the majors.  Worst ERA in baseball.  Most errors in baseball.  Bad baserunning - mental mistakes.  On the positive side, 24th in offense.  By what definition is this not terrible?

I believe in what Luhnow has been doing.   I know what McLane left.  I know radical steps were needed and that pain (three years of being the worst team in the major leagues) was necessary.

I'm simply saying that I think for a lot of Astros fans in saying that we're worn out.

Last night was the worst of the season for me, for some reason. BTW, Rangers are one game to the plus side of .500 for the season if you deduct the Astros games.

[NeilT]

This 10 game losing streak has not been fun, and I'm not sure at this point that I could say they've progressed, particularly.  Today's team will still be a 100-loss team next season.

[strosrays]

... don't watch.

This has been my choice.

Actually, not my choice.

No matter, the effect is the same. The fastest way I know of to become totally disinterested in a team is to never watch them.

[chuck]

I suspect that I've watched far more games than most of you and I would say without hesitation or reservation that the baseball has been terrible and that if anything the team is worse now than earlier in the year, more errors, more idiotic base running, less patience at the plate if that's possible... The bullpen is actually a little bit better. So yeah, there you go. The bullpen.

[NeilT]

I suspect that I've watched far more games than most of you and I would say without hesitation or reservation that the baseball has been terrible and that if anything the team is worse now than earlier in the year, more errors, more idiotic base running, less patience at the plate if that's possible... The bullpen is actually a little bit better. So yeah, there you go. The bullpen.

The bullpen with Fields, Zeid and Chapman seems better than it's been all season.  Some of the starting pitching, Oberholtzer particularly, seems just fine. None of that seems to have to do with guys suddenly getting it, it seems to have to do with new guys.

The batting is what it has been all season.  Baserunning for the past two weeks has been stupid, but that probably is just random stupidity and trying to make something happen.  I thought at the start of the season that fielding was a strength of this team.  I don't think I'd say that now, so yeah, it's worse.

[JimR]

I suspect that I've watched far more games than most of you and I would say without hesitation or reservation that the baseball has been terrible and that if anything the team is worse now than earlier in the year, more errors, more idiotic base running, less patience at the plate if that's possible... The bullpen is actually a little bit better. So yeah, there you go. The bullpen.

individual players have made progress. I am unconcerned about W-L.

[Mr. Happy]

individual players have made progress. I am unconcerned about W-L.

I agree. I've even seen improvement from Altuve during the season. My only concern are the pitchers who seem to have regressed this season, including Harrell and Lyles.

[Fredia]

so who will be left for opening day

[roadrunner]

Is anyone watching Mission October on Fox Sports 1?  It's a hard knocks type show that profiles a handful of contending teams down the stretch.  Last night they had the Indians and it featured the Astros series from last week.  It was humorous watching the pitching coach prep their pitchers before the series saying the Astros won't let you get deep into the count - free swingers.  They can't adjust to breaking balls and have trouble with good command.  Basically you just throw low and away and you get them out.

Nothing too groundbreaking, but funny to hear the other teams tear them apart too in meetings.

The show is on Monday nights...I recommend it.

[austro]

I hope the Astros will get around to watching it.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I don't know if Jayson Stark is aware, but the Astros are 14 and 10 on Wednesday nights. That's not bad. That's winning.

[subnuclear]

I though this article by Craig Calcaterra makes good points. I can't imagine McLane in 2006 or 2007 trading Berkman and Oswalt for prospects, though.

[David in Jackson]

[quote url=http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/25/hating-on-the-astros-is-trendy-but-its-also-rather-silly/]I though this article by Craig Calcaterra makes good points[/url]. I can't imagine McLane in 2006 or 2007 trading Berkman and Oswalt for prospects, though.

I can imagine The Grocer signing Tejada and Lee and saying "Be a Champion."

[MusicMan]

I though this article by Craig Calcaterra makes good points. I can't imagine McLane in 2006 or 2007 trading Berkman and Oswalt for prospects, though.

He misunderstood Olney's article, which was not critical at all of the Astros; in fact, it quoted several (anonymous) front office types admiring what they are doing.  Olney was stating that if the system encourages more teams to follow the Astros' path, then MLB will need to reconsider the system.

[subnuclear]

He misunderstood Olney's article, which was not critical at all of the Astros; in fact, it quoted several (anonymous) front office types admiring what they are doing.  Olney was stating that if the system encourages more teams to follow the Astros' path, then MLB will need to reconsider the system.

I guess he is like me and too cheap to buy ESPN Insider.

[Bench]

I guess he is like me and too cheap to buy ESPN Insider.

Me too.  Plus it's just fun to be angry at an adult named Buster.

[JimR]

However, this scorched earth rebuild is really without precedent.

read up on Connie Mack and the Philadelphia Athletics. he did it twice.

[David in Jackson]

He misunderstood Olney's article, which was not critical at all of the Astros; in fact, it quoted several (anonymous) front office types admiring what they are doing.  Olney was stating that if the system encourages more teams to follow the Astros' path, then MLB will need to reconsider the system.

I think that is the main point, but Olney also points out that Astros ticket buyers are paying for a major league product and not getting it.  The unknown variable in this Crane/Luhnow strategy is whether or not there is any long-term damage in setting out to be awful for such a long period of time (the article states the team could easily have the worst ML record in 2014, and that this might be the plan).  The plan assumes that when the team gets good again that the fans will all come back.  That's probably true.

I do agree that the system does need to be changed to prevent this.  I (mostly) don't blame the Astros for taking advantage of the current system, though I'm worn out by watching the worst team in the majors for the past fifty years (62-65 Mets).

[homer]

Astros ticket buyers are paying for a major league product and not getting it.

Not judging by the attendance.

I do agree that the system does need to be changed to prevent this.

Why?

[Mr. Happy]

I think that is the main point, but Olney also points out that Astros ticket buyers are paying for a major league product and not getting it.  The unknown variable in this Crane/Luhnow strategy is whether or not there is any long-term damage in setting out to be awful for such a long period of time (the article states the team could easily have the worst ML record in 2014, and that this might be the plan).  The plan assumes that when the team gets good again that the fans will all come back.  That's probably true.

I do agree that the system does need to be changed to prevent this.  I (mostly) don't blame the Astros for taking advantage of the current system, though I'm worn out by watching the worst team in the majors for the past fifty years (62-65 Mets).

And what, praytell, would you propose as a solution? McLane's "let's achieve mediocrity and win 70 something games? Please. If we're going to rebuild both the big league team and the minor league farm system, we had to start by trading every decent player for prospects.

[NeilT]

read up on Connie Mack and the Philadelphia Athletics. he did it twice.

I'm not sure Mack's firesales were to rebuild.  I think he was broke and couldn't hold the teams together, so he sold off.  He sold off his first great team in 1915, and didn't win again until 1925.  He sold off his second great team in 1933 and never really won again until he retired in 1950.  He did have 3 seasons over .500 during that period, 1947-1949, but his overall winning percentage from 1933-1950 was .398.

[JimR]

I'm not sure Mack's firesales were to rebuild.  I think he was broke and couldn't hold the teams together, so he sold off.  He sold off his first great team in 1915, and didn't win again until 1925.  He sold off his second great team in 1933 and never really won again until he retired in 1950.  He did have 3 seasons over .500 during that period, 1947-1949, but his overall winning percentage from 1933-1950 was .398.

I was not really talking about the purpose. only that a complete overhaul has been done before.

[NeilT]

I was not really talking about the purpose. only that a complete overhaul has been done before.

It wasn't the same though.  Mack didn't overhaul, he just cleaned house.  Here's a good article on the 1915 sale.  Mack just let his pitching staff go--he didn't even get cash for them, which is what I always thought he'd done.  http://www.thisgreatgame.com/1915-baseball-history.html

[roadrunner]

Good response from AC: http://www.astroscounty.com/2013/09/on-tanking-buster-olney-and-astros.html

Cleveland is 16-2 against the white sox

[David in Jackson]

And what, praytell, would you propose as a solution? McLane's "let's achieve mediocrity and win 70 something games? Please. If we're going to rebuild both the big league team and the minor league farm system, we had to start by trading every decent player for prospects.

The Olney article suggests a lottery, where the worst team is not guaranteed the top overall pick.  That might be a good idea.  Best would be a salary cap  (which would result in a lost season due to players' opposition) AND a salary floor (tied, perhaps, to increased revenue sharing).  I'm sure there are other ideas - that because of the radical approach taken by Houston - owners may consider.  I DO think the system can be improved.

Again - I generally support the massive rebuild and trust Luhnow to execute it.  However, the pain has been without precedent (first team in fifty years to lose 105 games in three straight years) and may continue next year.  I'm just worn out after three miserable seasons and an eleven game losing streak.

[David in Jackson]

Not judging by the attendance.

Why?

One scenario: What if multiple other teams intelligently (not Marlins/Loria-esque) follow the Houston example?  What if 4-5 teams set out to lose 70% of their games?  Does that begin in weaken the overall MLB product?

[subnuclear]

Right now the only way teams can improve is through the draft. There isn't enough players in free agency to go around. Obviously, the best thing to do would be to reduce service years a player needs to have before free agency.

Unless you have a bigger, better pool of free agents, salary caps aren't going to change anything.

[juliogotay]

Right now the only way teams can improve is through the draft. There isn't enough players in free agency to go around. Obviously, the best thing to do would be to reduce service years a player needs to have before free agency.

Unless you have a bigger, better pool of free agents, salary caps aren't going to change anything.

Reducing the service years to free agency would be a terrible thing for most ML clubs. Especially the less endowed ones.

[subnuclear]

Reducing the service years to free agency would be a terrible thing for most ML clubs. Especially the less endowed ones.

Correct. This is why things are the way they are. Just pointing out that salary caps are not useful when 85% of the best players are under club control.

[Mr. Happy]

Correct. This is why things are the way they are. Just pointing out that salary caps are not useful when 85% of the best players are under club control.

But that was the deal with the devil that the MLBPA made with the owners, i.e., to protect the big salaries of the stars.