Author Topic: More controversy  (Read 11264 times)

AstroAndy

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #80 on: November 13, 2019, 11:17:49 am »
Yeah, the Red Sox got fined in the same season for using Apple Watches.

They sure did.  And you know why they got caught?  Because the Yankees had a camera pointed at the Red Sox dugout.  But when the Astros take video of opponents' dugouts specifically for the exact same defensive purposes, it gets spun as further evidence of cheating. 

As for the consequences to the Astros, it will likely be more significant than the Red Sox's fine.  When the Commissioner fined the Red Sox, he stated that "all 30 Clubs have been notified that future violations of this type will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks."  The Danny Farquhar game that Jomboy posted came after the Commissioner's statement.  And while I personally couldn't hear the alleged signal from the dugout, even with the detailed explanation, I suspect that the timing of that game will be enough to justify the front office giving the mob what they want.   

JimR

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #81 on: November 13, 2019, 11:26:16 am »
I wouldn't expect him to be forthright about it, just like I wouldn't expect anyone with any team to be forthright about it.  Of course, he's one week into his first managerial gig so it's also not in his best interest to lie.

I think the whole thing is plausible, but I question the feasibility of doing it on any sort of large scale.

No excuse for lying, Waldo. None.
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subnuclear

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #82 on: November 13, 2019, 11:27:18 am »
They have become the New England Patriots of MLB.

I'll take it if they win 5 more championships.

Astros Fan in Big D

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #83 on: November 13, 2019, 11:42:02 am »
No excuse for lying, Waldo. None.

I agree wholeheartedly.

But lying to the media is commonplace, especially when folks are protecting their self interests.

No,  he wasn't tipping pitches.
No,  we weren't throwing at him.  Ball just got away.
Our runners aren't stealing signs.
No,  I'm not the world's biggest douche (that one is A-Rod specific).

That's not justification,  just a way for me to prepare to hear bad things about people I like.

Waldo

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #84 on: November 13, 2019, 11:50:02 am »
I agree wholeheartedly.

But lying to the media is commonplace, especially when folks are protecting their self interests.

Yep.  I don't know if Beltran is lying or not, but I can see why he would.

JimR

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #85 on: November 13, 2019, 11:55:41 am »
Yep.  I don't know if Beltran is lying or not, but I can see why he would.

So, lies are justified? You’ll have a great time with teen-aged children.
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chuck

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #86 on: November 13, 2019, 12:27:12 pm »
So, lies are justified? You’ll have a great time with teen-aged children.

Others are welcome to feel differently, but to me, there is a wide difference between the sort of lies that AFiBD describes and the lies that were told in the wake of the Taubman incident. The Taubman thing got corrected, appropriate apologies were made and hopefully accepted, the book is closed on that unfortunate incident as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know that anyone is arguing that lying is justified, but if a pitcher whose shoulder is bothering him comes off the mound and tells the press, No, I felt great out there, well, I'm not ready to crucify him.

I have no great love for Beltran and no great love for the Mets, but his saying he knew nothing about it might mean just that he never asked for or received any of the information being offered. If it was happening, the whole team surely knew about it. But what are they supposed to say now? Yes, I knew, and I was scandalized! I mean, come on. These guys have surely all watched The First 48. Just keep quiet and there's only so much anyone can do.

Anyway, the banging noise is plainly audible to me through regular computer speakers, and clear as day if you wear headphones. The Astros were clearly using technology to steal signs in 2017. They were clearly not the only team to be doing so. I'm not sure what the statute of limitations is on something like that, and I don't know how useful it would be to litigate the misbehavior of any team from several seasons ago. I would hope that the league would just re-iterate its current policy regarding the use of technology to steal signs, and it might be useful to express what a minimum penalty for a violation might look like, loss of a first round pick, you know, whatever it might be.
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JJxvi

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #87 on: November 13, 2019, 12:42:53 pm »
There's blood in the water around this team, from a number of different angles, creating a feeding frenzy that probably isn't going away anytime soon.  Should help the media outlets involved keep the hot stove warm while Boras fucks around.

The narratives:

1. Cheating/sign stealing.  Fiers is a butthurt snitch, and this is widespread throughout the league.  He just went on record about it.  How brave. /wanking motion   As noted above, MLB has already taken the steps to make this illegal for all teams; unless I'm missing something, it wasn't illegal in 2017.  WFW.

2. Taubman.  He's an asshole, and he probably wasn't the only asshole on staff.  The PR bungling creates the perception that they're ALL assholes.  "I'm surrounded by Assholes!"

3. General front office nonsense.  Because Luhnow et al are clearly cold, heartless numbers-driven sharks, any slip up in free agent negotiation, staff turnover, etc. is viewed through that lens.

The thing I hate most about this is that (unlike the Patriots), we have a genuinely likeable group of players to root for here.  I can't think of better representatives for our city that Altuve, Springer and Verlander.  And Hinch, for that matter.

In summary, they hate us 'cause they ain't us.

The media template right now to generate clicks or social media traffic for pretty much any major league baseball offseason discussion that doesnt have anything to with like free agency or hot stove or whatever is as follows...

1) Headline that implies or outright says that "the Astros are awful, here is what they are doing"
2) Story about a widespread "problem" that all of major league baseball has

Example...this was ESPN.com's big Astros story yesterday before they got railroaded by this story.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/28059274/why-george-springer-free-agent-winter

« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 12:46:56 pm by JJxvi »

SoonerJim

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #88 on: November 13, 2019, 01:15:18 pm »
The media template right now to generate clicks or social media traffic for pretty much any major league baseball offseason discussion that doesnt have anything to with like free agency or hot stove or whatever is as follows...

1) Headline that implies or outright says that "the Astros are awful, here is what they are doing"
2) Story about a widespread "problem" that all of major league baseball has

Example...this was ESPN.com's big Astros story yesterday before they got railroaded by this story.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/28059274/why-george-springer-free-agent-winter

Yes, the MLB contract structure cheats the players, but only Springer is singled out to play this generation’s Curt Flood. Were he clad in BoSox or pinstripes, this fantasy piece would not exist

Astros Fan in Big D

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #89 on: November 13, 2019, 01:19:40 pm »
Yes, the MLB contract structure cheats the players, but only Springer is singled out to play this generation’s Curt Flood. Were he clad in BoSox or pinstripes, this fantasy piece would not exist

File that story under WFW.

Don't like that management tactic? 

Negotiate it out of the CBA.




juliogotay

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #90 on: November 13, 2019, 01:22:58 pm »
Oh, the Humanity!!

Bench

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #91 on: November 13, 2019, 01:35:08 pm »
Yes, the MLB contract structure cheats the players, but only Springer is singled out to play this generation’s Curt Flood. Were he clad in BoSox or pinstripes, this fantasy piece would not exist

Man this martyrdom complex is amazing.
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toddthebod

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #92 on: November 13, 2019, 02:03:48 pm »
I am waiting for the investigation to finish.  But to date, the only person who has commented that I have any respect for is Darvish.

https://twitter.com/faridyu/status/1194380767671070724
Boom!

HudsonHawk

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #93 on: November 13, 2019, 02:39:33 pm »
My response to the haters is:

"yes, the Astros cheated.  Specifically, they cheated your team and by extension you.  You should be forever haunted in your dreams by the image of Marwin Gonzalez taking Kenley Jansen deep and effectively stealing food from your table.  #NEVERFORGET!."
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GreatBagwellsBeard

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #94 on: November 13, 2019, 02:47:34 pm »
I just had a chilling thought: what if Taubman snitches to MLB to save his own future career in professional baseball, and the repercussions end up being huge?

Thinking about this during the impeachment hearings is bad juju.
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SoonerJim

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #95 on: November 13, 2019, 02:51:17 pm »
They’ll pay him off before he talks, lest he harm the game. Better chance Houston surrenders a passel of draft picks

JimR

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #96 on: November 13, 2019, 03:02:50 pm »
My response to the haters is:

"yes, the Astros cheated.  Specifically, they cheated your team and by extension you.  You should be forever haunted in your dreams by the image of Marwin Gonzalez taking Kenley Jansen deep and effectively stealing food from your table.  #NEVERFORGET!."

Slick trick to cheat in Dodger Stadium.
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SoonerJim

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #97 on: November 13, 2019, 03:07:57 pm »
Slick trick to cheat in Dodger Stadium.

And our road record is historically better of late; our cheating operation is unparalleled. It’s even better on the road

Astros Fan in Big D

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #98 on: November 13, 2019, 03:09:47 pm »
Slick trick to cheat in Dodger Stadium.

The article had the desired effect.

The unwashed masses don't pick up on nuances like that.

I'm sure they'll chase after the next shiny object that happens along.

BudGirl

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Re: More controversy
« Reply #99 on: November 13, 2019, 03:10:25 pm »
Slick trick to cheat in Dodger Stadium.

You know Blummer was sitting in the outfield.  He could have been the one stealing signs.
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