Author Topic: Cole and Game 5  (Read 2673 times)

JimR

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Cole and Game 5
« on: October 28, 2019, 09:50:48 am »
A thing I hate about this morning is the obituaries already started. Kaplan and Rosenthal in the Athletic: “last start as an Astro;” “highest paid pitcher in baseball;” “eight year, &300 million;” “legacy in Houston.” Cole’s only response was a quick “No” to “Have you thought this might be your last start as an Astro?” There is the unstated, implied assumption the Astros will let him walk.

All of this may be true, of course. He may want to play elsewhere. He may want the “highest paid” status. Maybe money is most important to him. He may want a 6 or 8 year deal. Whatever, I hope we try our best to keep him. I hope he recognizes the contributions he received from the Astros in making him the pitcher he is today. I hope most of all he wants to stay. I trust Crane to be supportive of a financially competitive 3-4 year deal. We’ll see.

Most of all, I wish the writer would STFU about this stuff and concentrate on baseball and the Series. The games are not over, and Game 6 will not be easy.
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NeilT

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2019, 10:05:01 am »
I don't mind the storyline. It's what reporters do and maybe it was his last game. It'll play out with lots of noise and hoopla and odds are what odds are, and I'd just as soon ease into that now than discover it when it happens. I would really hate for him to end up a Yankee though.

Probably because of the storyline I was thinking last night what a special defensive team this is for a pitcher, and that if I were a pitcher looking at leaving the Astros, that's what might hold me. It would be easier to pitch in front of this team than any place else in baseball. Yeah, Cole is great, but at least a bit of that greatness is what's behind him.

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juliogotay

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2019, 10:54:20 am »
I don't mind the storyline. It's what reporters do and maybe it was his last game. It'll play out with lots of noise and hoopla and odds are what odds are, and I'd just as soon ease into that now than discover it when it happens. I would really hate for him to end up a Yankee though.

Probably because of the storyline I was thinking last night what a special defensive team this is for a pitcher, and that if I were a pitcher looking at leaving the Astros, that's what might hold me. It would be easier to pitch in front of this team than any place else in baseball. Yeah, Cole is great, but at least a bit of that greatness is what's behind him.

You can also see that he is having fun and enjoying the attention and  that is probably something he didn't have much of in Pittsburg.

Astros Fan in Big D

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2019, 11:10:54 am »
I don't like it either.

Touch on it.  Let the studio idiots talk about it pre/postgame.  We don't need a cutaway to Rosenthal in the middle of action to discuss it.

JimR

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2019, 11:15:42 am »
I don't mind the storyline. It's what reporters do and maybe it was his last game. It'll play out with lots of noise and hoopla and odds are what odds are, and I'd just as soon ease into that now than discover it when it happens. I would really hate for him to end up a Yankee though.

Probably because of the storyline I was thinking last night what a special defensive team this is for a pitcher, and that if I were a pitcher looking at leaving the Astros, that's what might hold me. It would be easier to pitch in front of this team than any place else in baseball. Yeah, Cole is great, but at least a bit of that greatness is what's behind him.

Your “it is what reporters do” is my point. Write about the baseball game. Plenty of time to write about free agency. Cole refuses to discuss it.

While I am on the fucking baseball media, some SI writer named Dan Garland has a storyline today about Game 5: “Bad umpiring is the story of Game 5.” The story itself was all one-sided. He singles out two pitches-one to Brantley called a ball and the third strike to Robles on Cole’s final pitch. Not a word about bad for both sides. Not a word about Cole’s getting squeezed. Most egregious, not a word about the ball four call to Zimmerman immediately preceding the Robles AB, which was so bad Hinch went out to calm down Cole and Maldonado. Maybe “this is what reporters do” also, but the one-sidedness of it from SI is upsetting.

The third strike to Robles was a makeup call, and it was justified. Cole was at the end, and he got screwed on an inning-ending pitch.
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Limey

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2019, 11:18:43 am »
Your “it is what reporters do” is my point. Write about the baseball game. Plenty of time to write about free agency. Cole refuses to discuss it.

While I am on the fucking baseball media, some SI writer named Dan Garland has a storyline today about Game 5: “Bad umpiring is the story of Game 5.” The story itself was all one-sided. He singles out two pitches-one to Brantley called a ball and the third strike to Robles on Cole’s final pitch. Not a word about bad for both sides. Not a word about Cole’s getting squeezed. Most egregious, not a word about the ball four call to Zimmerman immediately preceding the Robles AB, which was so bad Hinch went out to calm down Cole and Maldonado. Maybe “this is what reporters do” also, but the one-sidedness of it from SI is upsetting.

The third strike to Robles was a makeup call, and it was justified. Cole was at the end, and he got screwed on an inning-ending pitch.

Alsi, the Astros scored 7 runs, which is quite a lot. 
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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2019, 11:19:25 am »
I think Amy and Kate get along really well also.

I'm like Jim, you never know.  Cole may be willing to give Houston a ride.  it maybe an expensive ride, but knowing it would be three aces (and yes, I still consider Greinke an Ace-he hasn't lost a WS game) for at least two more years would be something really strong to consider.

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Limey

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2019, 11:21:15 am »
If this series goes to Game #7, then last night may well not have been Cole’s last appearance as an Astro.  If I were Hinch, Cole would be my first choice to pitch in relief of Greinke if Zack got into trouble early. 
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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2019, 11:26:03 am »
Who knows what Cole has said privately to his teammates about free agency and next year, but I found Josh Reddick’s comments on MLB Network’s pre-game show yesterday interesting. The subject of Cole and where he would be next year came up and Reddick basically said he expects him to be in an Angels uniform.

I hope they keep him, but with the money spent on Altuve, Bregman, JV, Greinke and hopefully Springer’s extension, which will be big, I have a hard time believing it is feasible. We’ll see.


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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2019, 11:28:07 am »
To Jim's point about the umpiring,  that train started rolling in the pbp booth.

They completely forgot about the Zimmerman walk.   That was a perfect pitch from one of the game's best pitchers on the biggest stage as HIS TANK WAS APPROACHING ZERO POINT ZERO.   And he fucking dotted the corner.

Maybe someone should interview Gary Sanchez.   I'm sure he's all for a 4 strike policy.

JimR

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2019, 11:38:56 am »
To Jim's point about the umpiring,  that train started rolling in the pbp booth.

They completely forgot about the Zimmerman walk.   That was a perfect pitch from one of the game's best pitchers on the biggest stage as HIS TANK WAS APPROACHING ZERO POINT ZERO.   And he fucking dotted the corner.

Maybe someone should interview Gary Sanchez.   I'm sure he's all for a 4 strike policy.

Exhibit A to why I do not watch the pre-or post-game shows or listen to the broadcast. The Worrell button also works in the WS.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2019, 11:44:32 am »
 The free agency talk reminds me of something thats ruining college football.  A team is having a good year and all anyone wants to talk about is what next job the coach is taking, be it a step up within college or off to the NFL.  So annoying.
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das

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2019, 11:49:44 am »
While I am on the fucking baseball media, some SI writer named Dan Garland has a storyline today about Game 5: “Bad umpiring is the story of Game 5.” The story itself was all one-sided. He singles out two pitches-one to Brantley called a ball and the third strike to Robles on Cole’s final pitch. Not a word about bad for both sides. Not a word about Cole’s getting squeezed. Most egregious, not a word about the ball four call to Zimmerman immediately preceding the Robles AB, which was so bad

There's that hack from SI and then there's this comment from someone that was actually there, experiencing the game firsthand:

“Lance did not lose us the game tonight; Gerrit Cole beat us,” Ryan Zimmerman said. “I think that’s the best way to put it. I’ve known Lance for a long time. He’s a really good guy and a good umpire. If you want to talk about the strike zone and stuff, you can go ask him. But I don’t think anyone should blame Lance for what happened tonight. Gerrit beat us. He had great stuff. He pitched his butt off. He’s one of the best pitchers on the planet.”
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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2019, 11:58:24 am »
There are several contracts expiring this year with Harris, McHugh, Miley, Rondon, and Smith.  That is $27 million in salary right there. I would think that Houston could fill a few of those roles internally with the exception of Harris and Smith, who I would hope that they try to re-sign.  I think they could make the money work.  Maybe they try to deal Greinke or Reddick in the offseason to free up some payroll if they re-sign Cole?  Obviously they would probably have to eat some of Greinke's money if they deal him. I guess it all will boil down to if Cole really wants to stay.  He won't find a better situation as far as winning and doing so long term in the offseason.  I think the two big names that will hit free agency soon are Springer and Correa.  At this point, I think Springer is the priority over Correa.  Once Correa hits free agency you have Grenike off of the books if they don't deal him.  To me, I think they can make it work with Cole while not putting the team's future in jeapordy if he wants to stay.

NeilT

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2019, 12:06:02 pm »
There are several contracts expiring this year with Harris, McHugh, Miley, Rondon, and Smith.  That is $27 million in salary right there. I would think that Houston could fill a few of those roles internally with the exception of Harris and Smith, who I would hope that they try to re-sign.  I think they could make the money work.  Maybe they try to deal Greinke or Reddick in the offseason to free up some payroll if they re-sign Cole?  Obviously they would probably have to eat some of Greinke's money if they deal him. I guess it all will boil down to if Cole really wants to stay.  He won't find a better situation as far as winning and doing so long term in the offseason.  I think the two big names that will hit free agency soon are Springer and Correa.  At this point, I think Springer is the priority over Correa.  Once Correa hits free agency you have Grenike off of the books if they don't deal him.  To me, I think they can make it work with Cole while not putting the team's future in jeapordy if he wants to stay.

Of all the players on the current team, Correa's value seems the hardest to pin down.  When he plays he's great, but he sure seems injury prone.
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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2019, 12:30:41 pm »
Of all the players on the current team, Correa's value seems the hardest to pin down.  When he plays he's great, but he sure seems injury prone.

I'm waiting to hear after the World Series that Correa is still not feeling right. 

We have two years left with Correa, but unless he drastically rewrites his story, I don't see how the Astros pay Correa as a full-time player when they only get half a season from him. 
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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2019, 01:31:10 pm »
The thing I keep coming back to with Cole is here's a guy who wanted to play for the Yankees his whole life, who was drafted by them in the first round, and who chose to risk three years at college in expectation of being drafted higher. It worked out for him in every way. Never mind that there are a slew of reasons for a starting pitcher to want to play in Houston, I just don't see that guy walking away from what promises to be a historic payday. 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 01:54:56 pm by Knoxbanedoodle »

JimR

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2019, 01:41:27 pm »
The thing I keep coming back to with Cole is here's a guy who wanted to play for the Yankees his whole life, who was drafted by them in the first round, and who chose to risk three years at college in expectation of being drafted higher. It worked out for him in every way. Never mind that there are a slew of reasons for a starting pitcher to want to play in Houston, I just don't see that guy walking away from what promises to be a historical payday.

If “historic payday” is the most important thing to him, ok. It certainly was not playing for NYY.
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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2019, 02:12:51 pm »
It isn't just about Cole.  He has the opportunity to set a new benchmark for contracts.  The contract he signs will impact the entire market this year and in years to come.  Especially after last off-season, there will be a lot of talk about how it is his duty to the rest of the players to maximize his contract.  He may well choose to ignore that, but you know that both Boras and MLBPA will be campaigning for him to view it that way.

JimR

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Re: Cole and Game 5
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2019, 02:42:46 pm »
It isn't just about Cole.  He has the opportunity to set a new benchmark for contracts.  The contract he signs will impact the entire market this year and in years to come.  Especially after last off-season, there will be a lot of talk about how it is his duty to the rest of the players to maximize his contract.  He may well choose to ignore that, but you know that both Boras and MLBPA will be campaigning for him to view it that way.

It is 100% about Cole and what he wants to do. Players, not agents or unions, make decisions. Cole has no obligation to be a benchmark. Altuve wanted to stay and did. His agent and the union wanted something else. Cole is in control, and he’ll let us know what he wants to do.
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