Author Topic: Latest Controversy  (Read 4474 times)

astrojo

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« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 12:33:12 am by astrojo »

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2019, 11:45:13 pm »
The Astros came out swinging, calling it a complete fabrication of a story by SI. The Chronicle reporters then corroborated the story, with Atkins apologizing for not speaking up sooner, and national media are now asking for video.

The Astros have fucked this up completely and created a HUGE distraction.



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Navin R Johnson

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 12:16:06 am »
What a cluster.  Whoever signed off on that press release, looks like an absolute dumbass.  Wtf.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 02:39:23 am »
Discontent at Taubman's meteoric rise through the Astros FO was allegedly a large reason many familiar names decided to seek opportunity elsewhere. I have no opinion on Taubman's work or value to the organization, but he was promoted very high, very quickly, and the organization clearly values him, and it is unsurprising that they would seek to protect him.

Their method of protection is also unsurprising. In other, similar situations the organization has simply lied - obvious, immediately provable lies. I guess they learned that the local media has no appetite for conflict and that eventually people will forget about the lies and life will move on, and maybe that's the case here, too.

It's very puzzling that the team wouldn't have the awareness to realize that a response such as they gave is not only insulting but also will inevitably create an enormous and unwelcome story line literally on the eve of the World Series, and in this case they can't rely on the inept local media's indolence and general servitude to make it disappear.

Luhnow needs to get out in front of this tomorrow, immediately. But he'll probably end up saying that Taubman's transgressions are really ultimately a net positive since they'll help to raise awareness.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 06:39:15 am »
Maybe everything the Astros said was true, but it was still a prime bit of unnecessary rampage. Taubman must have sat near a bunch of Yankee fans all evening.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 07:00:04 am »
For an organization that's leading edge in almost every area, their response to this is the most ham fisted disappointment imaginable.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 07:15:37 am »
If I were Crane or Ryan I would fire Taubman this morning for not being able to control himself and creating an unneeded distraction. His lack of situational awareness is only matched by his insensitivity. I don't care how smart someone, his value is negated if he can't behave properly in crucial moments. This has almost nothing to do with Osuna, it has to do with an indiscretion of Luhnow's top assistant. The fact that Taubman behavior was totally inappropriate and offensive. I'm not easily offended but Taubman's outburst offends me.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2019, 07:23:51 am »
I have a some level of care and distaste for Osuna, but kinda feel its just something you basically almost have to live with. After all he's done with law, and served a half season, without pay suspension from MLB as well.

It seems likely that this was an attempt to basically stir shit up (a reporter trying to create the news, essentially, not necessarily malevolently even, but possibly just to shine a light on a cause), and I think thats why you see the very negative reaction from the Astros.  The only real fact that is the heart of this story is the quote by Taubman...a quote that says nothing at all on its face  about domestic abuse or about anything at all really, except that the Astros have Osuna and this executive supports him.  Everything else about the story is just subjective context added to shade the story.  The Astros say he got mad and supported the player, the reporters likely want the impression that this guy is a sexist, anti-woman, who loves domestic abuse and having abusers on his team.

The thing that strikes me as crazy about a story like this is how it ties in to the viral mob, like we're upset that Osuna is playing baseball, but we're supposed to get out our pitchforks and go after this executive and get HIM fired, or whatever?  I'm glad the Astros didnt apologize.  If Taubman was in the worng and an asshole I hope he is punished and even fired if it was really bad and stupid enough, but apologizing in the media for a story like this just encourages the mob, it doesnt make it go away, or even improve the PR, IMO.

 

astrojo

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 07:52:46 am »
The team, and I mean actual players, doesn’t deserve to have to deal with yet another controversy distracting the masses from what a bunch of talented, hard working, and tightnit fellows they all are.  Including Osuna. The team has accepted him and given him credit in interviews and their on field interaction with him.  I’m sure he wishes Taubman had just left his name out of his mouth. But the new narrative for this team and organization isn’t superiority, as it should be, but as an evil and unlikeable empire. It could be mentioned that at least 3 of the reporters involved are from New York, including Hunter Atkins of the chronicle.

But I agree this was handled poorly. Taubman should apologize for his likely drunken behavior, fined an undisclosed amount, and banned from further clubhouse celebrations at the very least. Or fired if that is what is needed.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 07:55:47 am by astrojo »

Limey

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2019, 08:02:03 am »
I have a some level of care and distaste for Osuna, but kinda feel its just something you basically almost have to live with. After all he's done with law, and served a half season, without pay suspension from MLB as well.

It seems likely that this was an attempt to basically stir shit up (a reporter trying to create the news, essentially, not necessarily malevolently even, but possibly just to shine a light on a cause), and I think thats why you see the very negative reaction from the Astros.  The only real fact that is the heart of this story is the quote by Taubman...a quote that says nothing at all on its face  about domestic abuse or about anything at all really, except that the Astros have Osuna and this executive supports him.  Everything else about the story is just subjective context added to shade the story.  The Astros say he got mad and supported the player, the reporters likely want the impression that this guy is a sexist, anti-woman, who loves domestic abuse and having abusers on his team.

The thing that strikes me as crazy about a story like this is how it ties in to the viral mob, like we're upset that Osuna is playing baseball, but we're supposed to get out our pitchforks and go after this executive and get HIM fired, or whatever?  I'm glad the Astros didnt apologize.  If Taubman was in the worng and an asshole I hope he is punished and even fired if it was really bad and stupid enough, but apologizing in the media for a story like this just encourages the mob, it doesnt make it go away, or even improve the PR, IMO.


You are parsing the situation here to try and make it look differently to how it actually was in context.  Taubman represents the Astros the same way I represent my company; if I'd done that in such a public situation, I'd be fired.  He should too.  It doesn't matter if he was baited, it's his job not to react in such a boorish way - he's the assistant general manager, not the bat boy.

As for the Astros, principles are only principles if you stick to them when it's inconvenient.  Instead of doing what's right, they sided with their guy and are now going to take the same shit as him even if they do, belatedly, do the right thing.  The original sin of trading for Osuna is now, once again, going to be a hot topic and the Astros are going to be flying their dirty laundry from the fucking foul pole for the entire World Series.

Right now, the Astros are not doing anything to distance themselves from Taubman's position  - that it doesn't matter because winning - and are doing things to adhere themselves to that position.  If the Astros' management truly shares Taubman's opinion regarding Osuna's abuse allegations then they deserve what is coming.  Because of that press release, shit is coming deserved or not.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2019, 08:10:35 am »
If I were Crane or Ryan I would fire Taubman this morning for not being able to control himself and creating an unneeded distraction.

I have prepared myself for the possibility that Ryan, and possibly even Crane, signed off on the Astros’ statement. I hope that’s not the case though.

Limey

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2019, 08:16:07 am »
I have prepared myself for the possibility that Ryan, and possibly even Crane, signed off on the Astros’ statement. I hope that’s not the case though.

The Astros may end up having to fire "the person responsible" for that press release (spoiler alert: it won't be Ryan or Crane) as well as Taubman.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2019, 08:20:28 am »
It could be mentioned that at least 3 of the reporters involved are from New York, including Hunter Atkins of the chronicle.
The NY angle is a nothing burger. None of the reporters who have corroborated the story were on the Yankees beat, and many national writers are based in NY. Looking too hard for an anti-Astros bias.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2019, 08:23:51 am »
Is boorish behavior by an employee really this much of a crisis, that will consume the series?  I maintain there’s a lot of ground between evil apathy and righteous outrage.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2019, 08:26:43 am »
The NY angle is a nothing burger. None of the reporters who have corroborated the story were on the Yankees beat, and many national writers are based in NY. Looking too hard for an anti-Astros bias.

Also, no one is denying that he said what he said; the Astros are trying to argue the context.  However, it's hard to believe that Taubman would suddenly become overwhelmed in that moment with man-love for the closer who had just blown the lead in the 9th that could've torpedoed the Astros entire season, such that he couldn't hold it in any longer and had to shout it into the ether.
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Limey

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2019, 08:27:50 am »
Is boorish behavior by an employee really this much of a crisis, that will consume the series?  I maintain there’s a lot of ground between evil apathy and righteous outrage.

At this moment in time, it's a terminal offense.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2019, 08:30:31 am »
Oh, great. Nothing like this thread on the morning of the WS opener. The team not only accepted Osuna, they now make their affection for him apparent in words and deeds. Because of the character of the Astros’ clubhouse, their acceptance, which goes well beyond mere tolerance, speaks volumes to me. The alleged victim kept him in her and in their child’s lives. The prosecutors dismissed the charges, the allegations have not been made public, he served a long baseball suspension without pay, yet despite all of this, half of the stuff in this thread are about him and domestic abuse as though it were a proved fact rather than about Taubman’s probably drunken reaction to an aggressive reporter after LeMahieu’s homer and the ill-advised too-aggressive, too-protective press release. May folks hate that the Astros eliminated NYY, and this stupidity gave them cannon fodder.

I agree Luhnow should get out in front of this today. I agree Taubman should be fired. I also think making potentially drunken celebrations open to press and public is a huge mistake. This is about Taubman, not about Osuna, and I hope Crane and Luhnow take control of this stupid and unnecessary distraction.
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astrojo

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2019, 08:31:52 am »
The NY angle is a nothing burger. None of the reporters who have corroborated the story were on the Yankees beat, and many national writers are based in NY. Looking too hard for an anti-Astros bias.

I should have clarified by completing my thought - that it could be mentioned, as it has been in many of the twitterverse comments I read last night, but had no bearing whatsoever on exposing Taubman as the douchebag he most certainly is.

Navin R Johnson

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2019, 08:31:59 am »
They didn’t need to apologize, especially if they felt the reporting was unfair.  But the Absolute last thing they needed to do was blast out of some Trumpesque Fake News BS press release.   

Simply say something along the lines of, we are aware of a report of inappropriate behavior of an Astros employee, we will launch an investigation into the veracity of the reporting.  If it turns out to be true we will respond appropriately.

I’ll wait for more info to arise before making my final decision on what happened and whether someone should get fired.

I lean towards the reports being more right than wrong.  There is a culture in the astros front office that they shouldn’t be questioned. Luhnow and company have been harboring ill will over the media having the gall to call them out over the Osuna trade.  It’s been festering for awhile now.   
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NeilT

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2019, 08:33:19 am »
It looks like (1) the Astros got the facts wrong in the press release; (2) Traubman was being an ass at work and embarrassed the organization; and (3) the Stros could have diffused the situation with a simple you-misunderstood-the-motives-but-we-are-so-sorry-our-behavior-was-inexcusable, which was really the only thing appropriate. If Traubman and the Astros intended to defend Osuna they've accomplished exactly the opposite. Osuna and the Astros will never be able to walk away from the domestic violence storyline now.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2019, 08:37:33 am »
It looks like (1) the Astros got the facts wrong in the press release; (2) Traubman was being an ass at work and embarrassed the organization; and (3) the Stros could have diffused the situation with a simple you-misunderstood-the-motives-but-we-are-so-sorry-our-behavior-was-inexcusable, which was really the only thing appropriate. If Traubman and the Astros intended to defend Osuna they've accomplished exactly the opposite. Osuna and the Astros will never be able to walk away from the domestic violence storyline now.

So much this.  It is amazing that people who are clearly brilliant, can be so fucking stupid.  I dont know if this is a case of someone being really smart in one area and really dumb in another.  Or just an issue of pettiness and spite.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2019, 08:41:57 am »
''I just did an interview with someone I like more than you. I used a lot of big words on him. I don't have anything left for you.'' --Brad Ausmus

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Navin R Johnson

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2019, 08:42:34 am »
At the end of the day, im not letting this sour my enjoyment of the World Series.  The WS is about the players.  I can separate the 2.   I can be disappointed in a buffoon in the front office and still root for and enjoy the team. 
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Limey

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2019, 08:43:37 am »
It looks like (1) the Astros got the facts wrong in the press release; (2) Traubman was being an ass at work and embarrassed the organization; and (3) the Stros could have diffused the situation with a simple you-misunderstood-the-motives-but-we-are-so-sorry-our-behavior-was-inexcusable, which was really the only thing appropriate. If Traubman and the Astros intended to defend Osuna they've accomplished exactly the opposite. Osuna and the Astros will never be able to walk away from the domestic violence storyline now.

Exactly.  The press reports say that no one was being interviewed at the time and Osuna and/or domestic violence was not being discussed.  Maybe there had been questions earlier and Taubman had been stewing on it, but that's still no excuse.  He's got to be a professional there, and he wasn't.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 08:50:03 am by Limey »
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NeilT

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2019, 08:46:31 am »
At the end of the day, im not letting this sour my enjoyment of the World Series.  The WS is about the players.  I can separate the 2.   I can be disappointed in a buffoon in the front office and still root for and enjoy the team.

Same here, but it was unnecessary.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2019, 08:51:02 am »
I want to know if the SI reporter went to Astros top brass about it before posting the report.  We train our staff to report abuse of any kind right away before doing anything else.  Don't let a perpetrator have any more time to continue bad behavior than can be helped.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2019, 08:51:09 am »
It looks like (1) the Astros got the facts wrong in the press release; (2) Traubman was being an ass at work and embarrassed the organization; and (3) the Stros could have diffused the situation with a simple you-misunderstood-the-motives-but-we-are-so-sorry-our-behavior-was-inexcusable, which was really the only thing appropriate. If Traubman and the Astros intended to defend Osuna they've accomplished exactly the opposite. Osuna and the Astros will never be able to walk away from the domestic violence storyline now.

The part I can't get over is that Stephanie Apstein approached the Astros for comment before posting the article and they declined comment.  Not "We'll look into it", not "We're already looking into it", not your completely palatable #3 comment, not even some meaningless PR bullshit that wouldn't have stirred the pot - just a straight up "No comment".  And then they release that statement after the article goes live?  What the fuck are they thinking?

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2019, 08:52:34 am »
I want to know if the SI reporter went to Astros top brass about it before posting the report.  We train our staff to report abuse of any kind right away before doing anything else.  Don't let a perpetrator have any more time to continue bad behavior than can be helped.

The reporter asked the team for a comment on the story prior to running it.  The Astros said "No Comment"   Then released that ridiculous press release calling it fake news.....
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2019, 08:55:37 am »
The reporter asked the team for a comment on the story prior to running it.  The Astros said "No Comment"   Then released that ridiculous press release calling it fake news.....

That's not the same as going straight to Luhnow or Crane that night and reporting the event.  Then writing the story.  If she wrote first then asked for comment that's not the same.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2019, 08:56:53 am »
It looks like (1) the Astros got the facts wrong in the press release; (2) Traubman was being an ass at work and embarrassed the organization; and (3) the Stros could have diffused the situation with a simple you-misunderstood-the-motives-but-we-are-so-sorry-our-behavior-was-inexcusable, which was really the only thing appropriate. If Traubman and the Astros intended to defend Osuna they've accomplished exactly the opposite. Osuna and the Astros will never be able to walk away from the domestic violence storyline now.

It would have been so easy to say “in the celebration, our employee made comments that could have been misconstrued. We reiterate our commitment to combating domestic violence and look forward to a great World Series.”

Instead, they took a brush fire and napalmed it.


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2019, 08:57:59 am »
That's not the same as going straight to Luhnow or Crane that night and reporting the event.  Then writing the story.  If she wrote first then asked for comment that's not the same.

A distinction without a difference, IMO.  And even if it did matter, that in no way excuses the Astros' statement.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2019, 08:58:29 am »
I want to know if the SI reporter went to Astros top brass about it before posting the report.  We train our staff to report abuse of any kind right away before doing anything else.  Don't let a perpetrator have any more time to continue bad behavior than can be helped.

If it wasn’t to top brass, it was to PR. And any halfway competent PR staffer sees that story and picks up the bat phone to Crane.


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2019, 09:01:02 am »
A distinction without a difference, IMO.

Massive difference.  Do not let a perpetrator have any more head start on abusing the next person than you possibly can.  We teach immediate reporting for that very real issue.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2019, 09:06:15 am »
If it wasn’t to top brass, it was to PR. And any halfway competent PR staffer sees that story and picks up the bat phone to Crane.


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Every one of these people are women.  If they weren't involved in that press release I can imagine they're in Crane's office this morning.

Vice President, Media Relations:  His office released the statement.  This guy's head could be on the chopping block this morning.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2019, 09:08:01 am »
Massive difference.  Do not let a perpetrator have any more head start on abusing the next person than you possibly can.  We teach immediate reporting for that very real issue.

Fair enough, but that does nothing to hurt her credibility, nor does it validate the Astros' statement.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2019, 09:08:33 am »
The NY angle is a nothing burger. None of the reporters who have corroborated the story were on the Yankees beat, and many national writers are based in NY. Looking too hard for an anti-Astros bias.

Not saying the reporter is NY, but much of the media was very pro-NYY. That was discussed here loudly and often.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2019, 09:10:07 am »
Not saying the reporter is NY, but much of the media was very pro-NYY. That was discussed here loudly and often.

Reporters from the Chron have corroborated the story.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2019, 09:13:41 am »
Senior Vice President, Community Relations + Executive Director, Astros Foundation
Senior Vice President, Marketing & Communications
Vice President, Event Sales and Operations
Vice President, Human Resources
Senior Counsel

Every one of these people are women.  If they weren't involved in that press release I can imagine they're in Crane's office this morning.

Vice President, Media Relations:  His office released the statement.  This guy's head could be on the chopping block this morning.
They all are under Ryan. I would like to know if Reid had any knowledge of the press release and if so, I look forward to hearing his explanation.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2019, 09:19:33 am »
Is boorish behavior by an employee really this much of a crisis, that will consume the series?  I maintain there’s a lot of ground between evil apathy and righteous outrage.

No, no, no.  This is the 21st Century.  It's time for Twitter mob mentality.  The Astros should have to forfeit this Series, Luhnow and Taubman fired, the Astros fined $1 billion, and Hinch deported back to whatever shithole place he's from.  Oklahoma, I think.  Let's make it go viral!!
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2019, 09:20:26 am »
The Athletic jumped on it too.
[/quot

Of course it did. It was all over the Verlander thing too.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2019, 09:21:49 am »
Reporters from the Chron have corroborated the story.

So fucking what? That is NOT what I was saying.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2019, 09:23:08 am »
That's not the same as going straight to Luhnow or Crane that night and reporting the event.  Then writing the story.  If she wrote first then asked for comment that's not the same.

Exactly.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2019, 09:23:40 am »
No, no, no.  This is the 21st Century.  It's time for Twitter mob mentality.  The Astros should have to forfeit this Series, Luhnow and Taubman fired, the Astros fined $1 billion, and Hinch deported back to whatever shithole place he's from.  Oklahoma, I think.  Let's make it go viral!!

A billion is a bit much....

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2019, 09:36:08 am »
Reporters from the Chron have corroborated the story.

Have these reporters said why they didn't write about it?
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2019, 09:37:34 am »
. . . Hinch deported back to whatever shithole place he's from.  Oklahoma, I think.  Let's make it go viral!!

That's really cruel and unusual, even for Twitter.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2019, 09:37:37 am »
Probably were afraid of losing access
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2019, 09:40:51 am »
So fucking what? That is NOT what I was saying.

It didn't matter who the press was for. You don't start a war of words with folk who buy ink by the barrel.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2019, 09:47:32 am »
Probably were afraid of losing access

If the incident were really that explosive denying access to the reporters would give credence to the notion that the Astros don't value women.  Someone in the org is tone deaf as the press release shows, but something like denying access isn't tone deafness.  It's much worse.  Just like what happened with the Dallas Mavericks a year or so ago the local and national press would not let it go.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2019, 09:49:10 am »
Or the team would just claim it was FAKE NEWS and then ban them from the clubhouse...
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2019, 09:51:37 am »
I want to know if the SI reporter went to Astros top brass about it before posting the report.  We train our staff to report abuse of any kind right away before doing anything else.  Don't let a perpetrator have any more time to continue bad behavior than can be helped.

The way I parse it SI showed the story to the Astros for comment before publication. That's pretty standard practice in political matters, and would be perfectly appropriate. I would assume that the reporter went to their counterpart in the Astros organization, but no organization would put out a press release like the Astros' without it being vetted up the line. If that didn't happen, man, that's almost even worse.

Like someone said, it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the games, but among the broader public it really kills a lot of the good will that the organization has built. And it was just stupid.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2019, 09:54:44 am »
A breathtakingly stupid incident by Taubman followed by a monumentally stupid response by the Astros.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2019, 10:07:48 am »
Need to hear from Reid Ryan. Did he know about the press release?
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2019, 10:08:23 am »
It didn't matter who the press was for. You don't start a war of words with folk who buy ink by the barrel.

Mr. T. I represented public entities for 37 years. In addition, I was a fairly high-profile coach who dealt with the media every day. I have heard that trite saying many times, and I know it is true.

My point is and was some in the media will keep this alive at least in part out of animosity for the Astros.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2019, 10:11:14 am »
Need to hear from Reid Ryan. Did he know about the press release?

Reid Ryan is too PR-savvy to have had a role in this, imo. The media people are under his supervision. I am hoping for a joint Ryan-Luhnow press conference this morning rather than more wagon-circling.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2019, 10:14:18 am »
Mr. T. I represented public entities for 37 years. In addition, I was a fairly high-profile coach who dealt with the media every day. I have heard that trite saying many times, and I know it is true.

My point is and was some in the media will keep this alive at least in part out of animosity for the Astros.

Exactly. My point is that the Astros should have recognized that and killed it instead of fanning the flames.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2019, 10:15:41 am »
Exactly. My point is that the Astros should have recognized that and killed it instead of fanning the flames.

Total agreement
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2019, 10:25:03 am »
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2019, 10:28:57 am »
The way I parse it SI showed the story to the Astros for comment before publication. That's pretty standard practice in political matters, and would be perfectly appropriate. I would assume that the reporter went to their counterpart in the Astros organization, but no organization would put out a press release like the Astros' without it being vetted up the line. If that didn't happen, man, that's almost even worse.

Like someone said, it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the games, but among the broader public it really kills a lot of the good will that the organization has built. And it was just stupid.

The good will can be repaired, and Reid Ryan is a genius at PR.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2019, 10:30:33 am »
Luhnow and Crane are the management face of the franchise. They need to do whatever it takes to make this go away and they need to do it immediately and publicly so that the entire focus shifts back to the field.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2019, 10:31:52 am »
Mr. T. I represented public entities for 37 years. In addition, I was a fairly high-profile coach who dealt with the media every day. I have heard that trite saying many times, and I know it is true.

My point is and was some in the media will keep this alive at least in part out of animosity for the Astros.

He pities the fool that don't agree with him.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #60 on: October 22, 2019, 10:35:28 am »
He pities the fool that don't agree with him.

I'm a'wearin' my bling.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #61 on: October 22, 2019, 10:39:34 am »
Luhnow and Crane are the management face of the franchise. They need to do whatever it takes to make this go away and they need to do it immediately and publicly so that the entire focus shifts back to the field.

Reid Ryan is President of the Astros on the operations side including PR and media. He must be involved also.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #62 on: October 22, 2019, 10:48:10 am »
Reid Ryan is President of the Astros on the operations side including PR and media. He must be involved also.

I think he's just saying that Crane and Luhnow are more recognizable faces of the organization.  Also, Taubman reports to Luhnow and everyone reports to Crane.  Reid Ryan should absolutely be involved from here on out, but any attempts to walk this back will ring a bit hollow without Crane and Luhnow out there also.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2019, 10:51:53 am »
I think he's just saying that Crane and Luhnow are more recognizable faces of the organization.  Also, Taubman reports to Luhnow and everyone reports to Crane.  Reid Ryan should absolutely be involved from here on out, but any attempts to walk this back will ring a bit hollow without Crane and Luhnow out there also.

What the fucking fuck, Waldo. Reading comprehension much? I said Reid Ryan ALSO, not instead. The press release is in Ryan’s umbrella, and he needs to be involved ALSO. along with Luhnow and Crane. Having Ryan involved is hardly “walking it back.”
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2019, 10:55:46 am »
What the fucking fuck, Waldo. Reading comprehension much? I said Reid Ryan ALSO, not instead. The press release is in Ryan’s umbrella, and he needs to be involved ALSO. along with Luhnow and Crane. Having Ryan involved is hardly “walking it back.”

Relax, Jim, I wasn't trying to correct or challenge what you said.  I know you said "also".  I was just trying to reinforce the point that anything the org does from here on out must involve all three of Crane, Luhnow, and Ryan.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2019, 11:00:28 am »
I'm really hoping that some additional info is forthcoming. From the media or Astros org. Some more details or context (video w sound). Just something for context.

The response, starting with declining to comment to the actual statement that was released seems so out of character for the Astros org.





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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2019, 11:05:16 am »
Crane needs to have Ryan answer for the press release and Crane needs to have Luhnow fire his idiot assistant. Ryan may not have any prior knowledge of or had anything to do with the press release but someone that reports to him did. 
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2019, 11:33:03 am »
Twitter's own @actioncoobook says it about as well as I could hope to:

Quote
Astros fans deserve better, too, though — because the logo on their hat doesn’t stand for Brandon Taubman or for Roberto Osuna, or for the people who would excuse their actions in the name of success. Women affected by violence have a right to say that the the team is theirs, that these people aren’t allowed to take their team from them or dictate what they must accept in order to appreciate it.

The logo doesn’t stand for some front-office toad who proudly traded for a bad man who then played well; someday they’ll be gone and you’ll still be here. It stands for memories shared over lazy summer afternoons and tense fall evenings. It stands for a father teaching his daughter to hold a bat just like Bagwell or Altuve, for a mother bonding with her son over the team she grew up loving, for women who love sports or work in sports standing in their place and not having to apologize for it, explain it, or justify it to anyone.

The wins and losses will pass; the shared history will not. The Brandon Taubmans and Roberto Osunas don’t own the game; you do.

It stands for you, not them.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2019, 11:38:37 am »
I have to think that the Astros response (and possibly the idiotic incident from the beginning) means that they believe that this reporter has an axe to grind, or that there is some sort of ongoing history here about this.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #69 on: October 22, 2019, 11:59:25 am »
Twitter's own @actioncoobook says it about as well as I could hope to:

“some front office toad who traded for a bad man who played well”

That says what you would say’? Bullshit.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #70 on: October 22, 2019, 12:34:31 pm »
I have to think that the Astros response (and possibly the idiotic incident from the beginning) means that they believe that this reporter has an axe to grind, or that there is some sort of ongoing history here about this.

I don’t know if the reporter has an axe to grind, but the Astros’ response grabbed the axe and planted it firmly in their own foot.


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2019, 12:46:52 pm »
I don’t know if the reporter has an axe to grind, but the Astros’ response grabbed the axe and planted it firmly in their own foot.


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2019, 01:56:07 pm »

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #73 on: October 22, 2019, 01:57:24 pm »
Doesn't address the shitburger of a statement last night, but it's probably enough to put the issue to bed.

Let's play some fucking baseball.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #74 on: October 22, 2019, 01:58:10 pm »
 op-ed from USA Today:

"The Houston Astros are Major League Baseball's worst nightmare"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/opinion-mlb-needs-to-address-houston-astros-troubling-history-of-toxic-behavior/ar-AAJaSPp

This reporter also wrote this earlier this year…

https://thehayride.com/2018/04/usa-today-runs-dumbest-op-ed-time-sports-section/


Much to do about nothing but an Astro Executive losing his cool about the relentless questioning of Osuna who has paid his dues for his mistake. He is paid not to lose his cool...granted. But should Osuna not get a chance to make up for his mistake and pitch in the MLB. Other athletes have done far worse. Should this be an indictment of the Astros as an organization.

Reprimand Taubman and let's play ball... Go 'Stros !
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #75 on: October 22, 2019, 01:59:32 pm »
"I'm sorry if anyone was offended by my actions."

What a fucking bullshit ending.

How about just an "I'm sorry." instead of adding a tag to make it sound like people shouldn't be offended by your drunken idiocy.

Fucking ridiculous.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2019, 02:01:09 pm »
Luhnow needs to get out in front of this tomorrow, immediately. But he'll probably end up saying that Taubman's transgressions are really ultimately a net positive since they'll help to raise awareness.

Crane has that one covered. Called it.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #77 on: October 22, 2019, 02:02:06 pm »
"I'm sorry if anyone was offended by my actions."

What a fucking bullshit ending.

How about just an "I'm sorry." instead of adding a tag to make it sound like people shouldn't be offended by your drunken idiocy.

Fucking ridiculous.

'I'm sorry you are upset' is not an apology.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #78 on: October 22, 2019, 02:02:20 pm »
Crane has that one covered. Called it.

You got a real Nostradamus over here.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #79 on: October 22, 2019, 02:02:58 pm »
'I'm sorry you are upset' is not an apology.

Thank you. That was what I was trying to convey but everything was so red and blurry from the rage bubbles I was having a hard time articulating.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #80 on: October 22, 2019, 02:10:42 pm »
Agree MRaup and Astros Fan in Big D, That is not a heartfelt apology admitting to any drunken misogynistic behavior whatsoever, but rather a egomaniacal shift of blame to the snowflake victims.  I do hope Crane/Luhnow and company discipline this ass clown by some sort of fine and ban from any further possible clubhouse celebrations.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #81 on: October 22, 2019, 02:18:56 pm »
Also, "those that know me know I am a progressive" sure sounds a lot like "I'm not racist, I have black friends".

Doubt there will be any more statements though.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #82 on: October 22, 2019, 02:35:32 pm »
Also, "those that know me know I am a progressive" sure sounds a lot like "I'm not racist, I have black friends".

Doubt there will be any more statements though.
Exactly. And being a "progressive" makes him no less culpable for his actions than if he was just a good old fashioned male chauvinist.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #83 on: October 22, 2019, 02:43:12 pm »
Those 2 statements make that dumbass Trump-esque FAKE NEWS press release look even fucking stupider, which is hard to do.  Also anyone who fell for the Astros BS, and decided to blame the reporter.....

Within 12 hours the Astros go from the article is FAKE NEWS to....sorry if we offended anyone?  JFC, fucking amateur hour.

It is truly amazing that people so smart can be so stupid.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2019, 02:48:47 pm »
Exactly. And being a "progressive" makes him no less culpable for his actions than if he was just a good old fashioned male chauvinist.

I think what they're still trying to say is that it was misconstrued and I'm sorry, but any kind of self-justification rings hollow. Tough position, but they can't say anything but however innocent my motives my statements were completely unacceptable I'm sorry. I'm not even real sure about the however innocent my motives part.   
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2019, 03:03:18 pm »
This whole thing is awful.  I just want to get excited for the WS and now every article/tweet/post rehashes a drunken idiot's unprovoked defense of an abuser and the organization's abomination of an apology.  Yuli's actions in 2017 are even being brought up again to highlight how terrible the org is and how shitty their fans (we) are for supporting it.
Just fucking awful all around and it's detracting from one of the most celebratory moments in baseball.
Game 1 can't start soon enough.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2019, 03:27:47 pm »
This whole thing is awful.  I just want to get excited for the WS and now every article/tweet/post rehashes a drunken idiot's unprovoked defense of an abuser and the organization's abomination of an apology.  Yuli's actions in 2017 are even being brought up again to highlight how terrible the org is and how shitty their fans (we) are for supporting it.
Just fucking awful all around and it's detracting from one of the most celebratory moments in baseball.
Game 1 can't start soon enough.

This.
"I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing... as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”  Charles Grassley

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #87 on: October 22, 2019, 03:39:08 pm »
The only real answer at this point is for Taubman to be fired. Anything short of that, rings hollow and allows this snowball to roll downhill.


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #88 on: October 22, 2019, 03:51:43 pm »
It is truly amazing that people so smart can be so stupid.

Between coworkers and friends, I personally know probably 40-50 people that have PhDs.  Roughly 80% of them are intelligent, thoughtful, enlightened people.  The remaining 20% are among the dumbest motherfuckers I've ever met.  I'm not talking about generally smart people who, for example, just lack social skills, or lack knowledge in certain subject areas fairly important to modern society (e.g. technology), or view the world in a fundamentally different (and perhaps flawed) way than I do.  I'm talking about Upper-Class Twit of the Year contenders for whom it's a miracle to get dressed every morning without injuring themselves.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #89 on: October 22, 2019, 03:58:33 pm »
This whole thing is awful.  I just want to get excited for the WS and now every article/tweet/post rehashes a drunken idiot's unprovoked defense of an abuser and the organization's abomination of an apology.  Yuli's actions in 2017 are even being brought up again to highlight how terrible the org is and how shitty their fans (we) are for supporting it.
Just fucking awful all around and it's detracting from one of the most celebratory moments in baseball.
Game 1 can't start soon enough.

All of the above. What really surprises me is Crane in all this.

I am constantly reminded of why I'm happy with the decision to avoid social media, and this kind of dogpile of righteousness and bullshit is exhibit A, over and over again. But I will just be nodding my head in agreement tonight that the Astros are run by a bunch of astonishingly PR-obtuse asshats, while rooting unabashedly for the 9.5 on the field.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2019, 03:59:25 pm »
The only real answer at this point is for Taubman to be fired. Anything short of that, rings hollow and allows this snowball to roll downhill.


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I'm not sure about that, but the PR team needs to be counseled on how to write an apology. It's like these people have never been married.

"I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing... as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”  Charles Grassley

Navin R Johnson

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2019, 04:01:54 pm »
And AJ nails his response when asked about the incident.  WE are lucky he is the Astros manager.  Wish they'd have let him write the press release, instead of whatever fucking dumbass did.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #92 on: October 22, 2019, 04:02:44 pm »
There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #93 on: October 22, 2019, 04:03:50 pm »
I'm not sure about that, but the PR team needs to be counseled on how to write an apology. It's like these people have never been married.
It's like their PR people never took intro to public relations.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #94 on: October 22, 2019, 04:05:28 pm »
And AJ nails his response when asked about the incident.  WE are lucky he is the Astros manager.  Wish they'd have let him write the press release, instead of whatever fucking dumbass did.
So true.
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #95 on: October 22, 2019, 04:13:10 pm »
AJ is the best.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #96 on: October 22, 2019, 04:40:29 pm »
MLB is now launching a full scale investigation into the incident.

Also the Baseball Writers Association is calling for the Astros to publicly apologize for the incident.


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #97 on: October 22, 2019, 04:40:38 pm »
This whole thing is awful.  I just want to get excited for the WS and now every article/tweet/post rehashes a drunken idiot's unprovoked defense of an abuser and the organization's abomination of an apology.  Yuli's actions in 2017 are even being brought up again to highlight how terrible the org is and how shitty their fans (we) are for supporting it.
Just fucking awful all around and it's detracting from one of the most celebratory moments in baseball.
Game 1 can't start soon enough.

“Defense of an abuser”

Seriously? Even here?
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Ebby Calvin

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #98 on: October 22, 2019, 04:46:08 pm »
“Defense of an abuser”

Seriously? Even here?

Yep.
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JJxvi

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #99 on: October 22, 2019, 04:47:25 pm »
So officially "apologizing" not only didnt make it go away but now "official investigations into the incident" immediately ramp up? Shocking.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #100 on: October 22, 2019, 04:51:56 pm »
Yep.

Glad you know what no one else does. Ivory tower judgmental bullshit.

My bad for opening this thread. I am going to the game.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #101 on: October 22, 2019, 04:52:38 pm »
NPR’s David Folkenflik added this:

Quote
NEWS: Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman was targeting a female reporter wearing a purple bracelet on domestic violence.

She has tweeted frequently on DV; he complained about her tweets offering info on DV hotlines when Roberto Osuna appeared in Astros games in 2018

I know of one reporter well known to the Astros that tweeted out the DV hotline number every time Osuna appeared last year, and that is one Alyson Footer.


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Navin R Johnson

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #102 on: October 22, 2019, 04:56:18 pm »
So officially "apologizing" not only didnt make it go away but now "official investigations into the incident" immediately ramp up? Shocking.

Other than the fact that they didn’t apologize, nor did they say shit about smearing the reporter and calling her a liar....after admitting she was correct.   Listen to AJ, that’s how it should’ve been handled.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #103 on: October 22, 2019, 05:02:14 pm »
Glad you know what no one else does. Ivory tower judgmental bullshit.

My bad for opening this thread. I am going to the game.

Hahaha.  Thanks Jim.  My bad for revisiting the sub.
Have fun at the game!
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #104 on: October 22, 2019, 05:06:58 pm »
No apology was ever going to be viewed as a real apology, thats why I put "apologized" in quotes.  All thats really been accomplished is admitting guilt, especially with regard to now seemingly conflicting statements by the organization.  So now everyone gets to yap about what punishment they think everyone involved should get, instead of about what actually happened.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #105 on: October 22, 2019, 05:12:06 pm »
Glad you know what no one else does. Ivory tower judgmental bullshit.

My bad for opening this thread. I am going to the game.
You do a better job unnecessarily defending osuna than taubman, but with similar results.
Where the fuck is Toro?

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #107 on: October 22, 2019, 05:19:00 pm »
It doesn’t matter who is on the other side. I’m going to pick Fuckhouse’s side any day of the week.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #108 on: October 22, 2019, 05:21:39 pm »
NPR’s David Folkenflik added this:

I know of one reporter well known to the Astros that tweeted out the DV hotline number every time Osuna appeared last year, and that is one Alyson Footer.



Fuck him for harassing any reporter but there's a special place in hell for him if he was going after Footer.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #109 on: October 22, 2019, 05:28:09 pm »
Glad you know what no one else does. Ivory tower judgmental bullshit.

What no one else does. Not true. What you elect not to know, perhaps. I have told you and others again and again that the details of what occurred are known by many. I know them. You know who else knows them? Footer. She is sufficiently disturbed by what she knows to, as MM pointed out, continue to promote a domestic violence hotline.

I'll just say one last thing about the Osuna incident, and that is he is damned lucky that what he did didn't kill her.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #110 on: October 22, 2019, 05:32:13 pm »
No apology was ever going to be viewed as a real apology, thats why I put "apologized" in quotes.  All thats really been accomplished is admitting guilt, especially with regard to now seemingly conflicting statements by the organization.  So now everyone gets to yap about what punishment they think everyone involved should get, instead of about what actually happened.

100% horseshit.   Astros employee was a complete shitbag, but he shouldn’t “apologize” because you don’t think some people think that is enough.  GTFO.   If someone does something shitty, they should apologize, unless they are complete trash or raised by wolves.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #111 on: October 22, 2019, 06:05:55 pm »
All of this seems like its just PR though, not real feelings or real compassion or whatever.  Does Taubman really think he did something shitty?  Judging by waiting two days, having the story come out and basically nothing, it doesnt seem so.  His "apology" after that doesnt seem so.  Do the astros feel like they did something shitty that they need to apologize for? It doesnt seem so, they didnt say anything when asked to comment about it beforehand, they blasted the story and journalist as irresponsible after it came out, and now finally I guess they have also kinda sorta "apologized"

I think if you apologize you should hopefully mean it, or at the very minimum at least seem like you actually meant it.  And...basically yes, I think that an obviouslyinsincere apology actually is far worse than just not apologizing at all.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 06:11:58 pm by JJxvi »

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #112 on: October 22, 2019, 06:11:27 pm »
NPR’s David Folkenflik added this:

She has tweeted frequently on DV; he complained about her tweets offering info on DV hotlines when Roberto Osuna appeared in Astros games in 2018


I know of one reporter well known to the Astros that tweeted out the DV hotline number every time Osuna appeared last year, and that is one Alyson Footer.


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TerryPuhl21

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #113 on: October 22, 2019, 06:22:58 pm »
No apology was ever going to be viewed as a real apology, thats why I put "apologized" in quotes.  All thats really been accomplished is admitting guilt, especially with regard to now seemingly conflicting statements by the organization.  So now everyone gets to yap about what punishment they think everyone involved should get, instead of about what actually happened.
Again, they should have fired his ass. We wouldn’t be discussing this now.


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Aussie Astro

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #114 on: October 22, 2019, 06:28:20 pm »
MLB is now launching a full scale investigation into the incident.

Also the Baseball Writers Association is calling for the Astros to publicly apologize for the incident.


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I have three apology rules -

1. Any apology that has to be forced is not worth the paper it is written on,

2. The word sorry is mandatory, and

3. If you are only sorry that someone is upset and not that you actually did it, it is not really an apology.

Not that I apologise too much anyway...
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #115 on: October 22, 2019, 06:38:11 pm »
now finally I guess they have also kinda sorta "apologized"

The Astros haven't apologized in any sort of official capacity.  Not to (apparently) Footer, not to SI, not to anyone.  So we are left to wonder which is true: either they truly think they don't have anything to apologize for, or they don't know how to apologize.  We are also left to wonder which is worse.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #116 on: October 22, 2019, 06:46:31 pm »
OK, I call for no posts in this thread during the game....got 15 minutes,
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #117 on: October 22, 2019, 06:47:08 pm »
OK, I call for no posts in this thread during the game....got 15 minutes,

Second.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #118 on: October 22, 2019, 07:06:08 pm »
OK, I call for no posts in this thread during the game....got 15 minutes,

good call
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #119 on: October 23, 2019, 10:56:16 am »
Well aren't you all a woke bunch.  So. Stinkin'. Cute.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #120 on: October 23, 2019, 11:18:28 am »
Also, "those that know me know I am a progressive" sure sounds a lot like "I'm not racist, I have black friends".

Doubt there will be any more statements though.

I am not a Progressive and I would not have considered doing what he allegedly did. This is not about politics.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #121 on: October 23, 2019, 11:20:56 am »
Also, "those that know me know I am a progressive" sure sounds a lot like "I'm not racist, I have black friends".

Doubt there will be any more statements though.

He's probably related to a woman.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #122 on: October 23, 2019, 11:31:28 am »

Luhnow's comments @4:06 with Sean Salisbury.

Not a ton to be taken from it, tried to piggy back on AJ a bit.  Will wait for the MLB process to play out and "hope we can put it behind us".  Still kinda sounds a bit like "sorry you were offended".  Writers have circled the wagons, have multiple witnesses supporting original article and all the Astros have given us is Taubman's statement.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #123 on: October 23, 2019, 11:38:57 am »
Luhnow's comments @4:06 with Sean Salisbury.

Not a ton to be taken from it, tried to piggy back on AJ a bit.  Will wait for the MLB process to play out and "hope we can put it behind us".  Still kinda sounds a bit like "sorry you were offended".  Writers have circled the wagons, have multiple witnesses supporting original article and all the Astros have given us is Taubman's statement.

Just a sincere sounding apology would be a huge step in the right direction.

Fucking embarrassing.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #124 on: October 23, 2019, 11:44:32 am »
Just a sincere sounding apology would be a huge step in the right direction.

Fucking embarrassing.

At least he said "I apologize" without adding the "if" statements.  MLB investigating gives him a complete out on any further comment.

The more I think about Taubman's reported behaviors the more he seems like a stereotypical immature frat boy.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #125 on: October 23, 2019, 11:45:14 am »
Luhnow's turn to step on a rake: “What we really don’t know is the intent behind the inappropriate comments he made. We may never know that because the person who said them and the people who heard them, at least up to this point, have different perspectives.”

What the fuck is wrong with them?
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #126 on: October 23, 2019, 11:47:56 am »
Luhnow's turn to step on a rake: “What we really don’t know is the intent behind the inappropriate comments he made. We may never know that because the person who said them and the people who heard them, at least up to this point, have different perspectives.”

What the fuck is wrong with them?

Seems quite clear he has a serious hard-on for Taubman.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #127 on: October 23, 2019, 12:00:48 pm »
Seems quite clear he has a serious hard-on for Taubman.

I guess it's time to face the fact that Taubman and the PR folks will keep their jobs.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #128 on: October 23, 2019, 12:19:46 pm »
I guess it's time to face the fact that Taubman and the PR folks will keep their jobs.

The PR folks aren't on the frontline in this.  Taubman certainly is.  I think he'll end up gone.

The more I think about what Luhnow said in the interview the more it seems clear to me he's too close to see what's happening.  Worrying about intent of the statement is well past its expiration date.  The narrative has now been written.  As there really is no absolute way to know what anyone is thinking there's no way he can alter the narrative without the accusers first retracting.  That's not happening.  For now and likely a long time into the future Taubman is a misogynist douche bag whether that's really true or not.  I can't see any other baseball org hiring or recruiting him.  As long as he's employed "the media" as well as a lot of other public figures (I'm a bit surprised some of the local politicians haven't come out on this yet) will caveat all things Astros as the domestic violence enabling organization.  At some point MLB I would imagine will lay that kind of reality at Crane's feet.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #129 on: October 23, 2019, 12:28:05 pm »
Well aren't you all a woke bunch.  So. Stinkin'. Cute.

Thank you for your contribution. You must feel so much better now.


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #130 on: October 23, 2019, 12:36:36 pm »
The press release and now Luhnow’s comments are the reason why I counsel my clients to buy the crisis management add-on to insurance packages.  Allowing senior executives to rake-step their way through interview after interview does nothing but generate clicks for the media and bad press for the individuals and organization. 
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #131 on: October 23, 2019, 12:49:50 pm »
The press release and now Luhnow’s comments are the reason why I counsel my clients to buy the crisis management add-on to insurance packages.  Allowing senior executives to rake-step their way through interview after interview does nothing but generate clicks for the media and bad press for the individuals and organization.

This is nowhere near complicated. It's not that someone's offshore rig is spewing 400,000 barrels of oil into the ocean every half hour. Some baseball dweeb got liquored up and went a-bullyin'. Several of you knuckleheads have offered sample apologies that would have put this whole thing to bed immediately. It is absolutely mind bending that the people running the team couldn't (or wouldn't) do that right away. Don't they know that the entire global sports media is staring squarely at them right now?
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #132 on: October 23, 2019, 01:06:39 pm »
This is nowhere near complicated. It's not that someone's offshore rig is spewing 400,000 barrels of oil into the ocean every half hour. Some baseball dweeb got liquored up and went a-bullyin'. Several of you knuckleheads have offered sample apologies that would have put this whole thing to bed immediately. It is absolutely mind bending that the people running the team couldn't (or wouldn't) do that right away. Don't they know that the entire global sports media is staring squarely at them right now?

Agreed.  All they had to do was say they take these allegations seriously and will launch an internal investigation into the matter, along with cooperating with MLB’s investigation. Their arrogance in response is not helping matters now or in the future.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #133 on: October 23, 2019, 01:33:42 pm »
The PR folks aren't on the frontline in this.  Taubman certainly is.  I think he'll end up gone.

The more I think about what Luhnow said in the interview the more it seems clear to me he's too close to see what's happening.  Worrying about intent of the statement is well past its expiration date.  The narrative has now been written.  As there really is no absolute way to know what anyone is thinking there's no way he can alter the narrative without the accusers first retracting.  That's not happening.  For now and likely a long time into the future Taubman is a misogynist douche bag whether that's really true or not.  I can't see any other baseball org hiring or recruiting him.  As long as he's employed "the media" as well as a lot of other public figures (I'm a bit surprised some of the local politicians haven't come out on this yet) will caveat all things Astros as the domestic violence enabling organization.  At some point MLB I would imagine will lay that kind of reality at Crane's feet.

It's insane that Luhnow thinks intent is at all relevant while at the same times acknowledging that the comments were inappropriate.
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Latest Controversy
« Reply #134 on: October 23, 2019, 01:39:09 pm »
op-ed from USA Today:

"The Houston Astros are Major League Baseball's worst nightmare"

This may be the stupidest comment ever printed in a newspaper.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #135 on: October 23, 2019, 02:24:38 pm »
The press release and now Luhnow’s comments are the reason why I counsel my clients to buy the crisis management add-on to insurance packages.  Allowing senior executives to rake-step their way through interview after interview does nothing but generate clicks for the media and bad press for the individuals and organization.

Indeed, going into an interview not being better prepared for entirely expected questions suggests a lack of understanding of the gravity of the situation.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #136 on: October 23, 2019, 02:32:02 pm »
op-ed from USA Today:

"The Houston Astros are Major League Baseball's worst nightmare"

This may be the stupidest comment ever printed in a newspaper.
While you can certainly argue that, the Astros themselves paved the road for reporters to drive down with stories like this, due to their tepid, insufficient response to this whole ordeal.

If I was Crane and I read that headline, Luhnow would be walking out of my office within the next 10 minutes with a few instructions, the first of which would be to inform Mr Taubman he is now unemployed.


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #137 on: October 23, 2019, 02:58:51 pm »
This is nowhere near complicated. It's not that someone's offshore rig is spewing 400,000 barrels of oil into the ocean every half hour. Some baseball dweeb got liquored up and went a-bullyin'. Several of you knuckleheads have offered sample apologies that would have put this whole thing to bed immediately. It is absolutely mind bending that the people running the team couldn't (or wouldn't) do that right away. Don't they know that the entire global sports media is staring squarely at them right now?

The point of hiring a crisis manager is that they save these people from themselves.  Unfortunately such people are typically too arrogant to get help and do they try to walk the tightrope on their own.  They always fail (because they don’t think they owe an answer) and make matters worse. 
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #138 on: October 23, 2019, 03:01:48 pm »
Agreed.  All they had to do was say they take these allegations seriously and will launch an internal investigation into the matter, along with cooperating with MLB’s investigation.

This is exactly what a crisis manager would tell you to do.  Likely adding a promise of a date/time by which he’d address the media again on the subject and then pivoting to “meanwhile we have game 2 coming up...”

Simples. 
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #139 on: October 23, 2019, 03:41:37 pm »
Indeed, going into an interview not being better prepared for entirely expected questions suggests a lack of understanding of the gravity of the situation.

Or it suggests that he (Luhnow) and/or Crane simply don't care.  I'm unfortunately beginning to think that, given that they are still pretending that their bullshit statement about SI never happened.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #140 on: October 23, 2019, 04:02:28 pm »
This is exactly what a crisis manager would tell you to do.  Likely adding a promise of a date/time by which he’d address the media again on the subject and then pivoting to “meanwhile we have game 2 coming up...”

Simples.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #141 on: October 23, 2019, 04:05:15 pm »
Or it suggests that he (Luhnow) and/or Crane simply don't care.  I'm unfortunately beginning to think that, given that they are still pretending that their bullshit statement about SI never happened.

I've no idea if what either actually thinks about it or whether they're on the same page.  I don't think they're pretending it never happened.  I just haven't seen anyone press them on the awful original response.  And they aren't going to just bring it up on their own.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #142 on: October 23, 2019, 04:54:36 pm »
Assuming Taubman was targeting Footer -- which certainly appears to be the case -- and given that she works for MLB.com / MLB Advanced Media, L.P.  (a partnership of the team owners), I wonder if that dynamic is affecting the front office's public statements.  MLB says they are launching an internal investigation, but the articles I've seen suggest that inquiry will focus on potential violations of the team/media relations provisions in the CBA.  But Footer is something other than a "media member".  She's an MLB employee.  So, this "internal investigation" may actually be a MLB human resources investigation.

So, Taubman's little stunt, on top of being disgraceful, also puts MLB in the cross-hairs of a potential workplace harassment suit.  I suspect that both MLB and team lawyers have told the FO to stop short of any statement that might constitute an admission of liability.

(this, of course, would have little to do with that initial abomination of a press release that attacked the SI article)

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #143 on: October 23, 2019, 04:58:02 pm »
Regardless of intent or perspective or some past hostility or what the fuck. What that stooge said at that time, in that place, in that manner, was monumentally stupid. I'd fire him for that alone. Then I'd issue a press release, something along the lines of: We recently had an employee that said something patently offensive for a number of reasons and on several layers. We are also offended and embarrassed by the actions of this now ex-employee. As an organization we will not tolerate such offensive stupidity. 
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #144 on: October 23, 2019, 05:27:07 pm »
Assuming Taubman was targeting Footer -- which certainly appears to be the case -- and given that she works for MLB.com / MLB Advanced Media, L.P.  (a partnership of the team owners), I wonder if that dynamic is affecting the front office's public statements.  MLB says they are launching an internal investigation, but the articles I've seen suggest that inquiry will focus on potential violations of the team/media relations provisions in the CBA.  But Footer is something other than a "media member".  She's an MLB employee.  So, this "internal investigation" may actually be a MLB human resources investigation.

So, Taubman's little stunt, on top of being disgraceful, also puts MLB in the cross-hairs of a potential workplace harassment suit.  I suspect that both MLB and team lawyers have told the FO to stop short of any statement that might constitute an admission of liability.

(this, of course, would have little to do with that initial abomination of a press release that attacked the SI article)
Good points.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #145 on: October 23, 2019, 05:37:18 pm »
So, Taubman's little stunt, on top of being disgraceful, also puts MLB in the cross-hairs of a potential workplace harassment suit.  I suspect that both MLB and team lawyers have told the FO to stop short of any statement that might constitute an admission of liability.

(this, of course, would have little to do with that initial abomination of a press release that attacked the SI article)

Which something Crane is all too familiar with from his other business..
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #146 on: October 23, 2019, 06:07:23 pm »
Regardless of intent or perspective or some past hostility or what the fuck. What that stooge said at that time, in that place, in that manner, was monumentally stupid. I'd fire him for that alone. Then I'd issue a press release, something along the lines of: We recently had an employee that said something patently offensive for a number of reasons and on several layers. We are also offended and embarrassed by the actions of this now ex-employee. As an organization we will not tolerate such offensive stupidity.

And the story ends right there and then.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #147 on: October 23, 2019, 06:21:16 pm »
This might distract people from the Taubman story for a little while... yikes.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #148 on: October 24, 2019, 12:14:28 am »
This might distract people from the Taubman story for a little while... yikes.

So, MLB might finally find something it is willing to discipline an umpire for?

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #149 on: October 24, 2019, 08:01:52 am »
So, MLB might finally find something it is willing to discipline an umpire for?

Poor spelling?


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #150 on: October 24, 2019, 01:37:25 pm »
Poor spelling?
That or threatening to commit mass murder.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #151 on: October 24, 2019, 01:59:49 pm »
Poor spelling?


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That too.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #152 on: October 24, 2019, 03:12:12 pm »
Just heard "Sneakin' Sally Through the Alley", which I hadn't heard in a while. Some of the lyrics seem apt:

Quote
Trying to double talk
Get myself in trouble talk,
Catching myself in lies,
Catching myself in lies
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #153 on: October 24, 2019, 03:35:44 pm »
Taubman has been FIRED. 
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #154 on: October 24, 2019, 03:40:02 pm »
And the Astros have clearly hired a new PR person based on the statement they released over the firing
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #155 on: October 24, 2019, 03:40:20 pm »
Taubman has been FIRED.

BOOM! Best Astros news I’ve read all week.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #157 on: October 24, 2019, 03:41:38 pm »
"We were wrong. We sincerely apologize..."

Better late than never.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #158 on: October 24, 2019, 03:44:52 pm »
Luhnow will address the media at 5:15 CT
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #159 on: October 24, 2019, 03:45:31 pm »
Taubman has been FIRED.
This was the appropriate response, even if a little late.


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #160 on: October 24, 2019, 03:54:50 pm »
I get the feeling the dude hung himself.  He clearly told them he did nothing.  If he’d have been honest and straight up apologized he probably gets suspended but not  fired.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #161 on: October 24, 2019, 03:58:10 pm »
I wonder if the PR/Communications person that sent out the initial press release got his or her walking papers, too. 
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« Reply #162 on: October 24, 2019, 04:07:52 pm »
I get the feeling the dude hung himself.  He clearly told them he did nothing.  If he’d have been honest and straight up apologized he probably gets suspended but not  fired.

No doubt.  I'm sure he was working his ass off to minimize it.

This whole thing still seems bizarre to me.  Could he have been the point man on the Osuna deal?  Taking the fallout personally and dealing with it in such an immature fashion would fit that to me.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #163 on: October 24, 2019, 04:14:50 pm »
That's a really interesting thought.  Wouldn't be surprised in the least as it makes a hell of a lot sense the more I think about all of this.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #164 on: October 24, 2019, 04:32:52 pm »
No doubt.  I'm sure he was working his ass off to minimize it.

This whole thing still seems bizarre to me.  Could he have been the point man on the Osuna deal?  Taking the fallout personally and dealing with it in such an immature fashion would fit that to me.

That is my guess
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #165 on: October 24, 2019, 08:21:12 pm »
Luhnow didn’t look so good at his PC.

Quote
Astros GM Jeff Luhnow was asked whether he had personally reached out to @stephapstein to apologize.
Luhnow said he’s been busy and hasn’t had the time.

Stephanie was sitting in the room.

https://twitter.com/thehazelmae/status/1187505844591697920?s=21

And: https://twitter.com/chandler_rome/status/1187510010328293377?s=21


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #166 on: October 24, 2019, 10:03:23 pm »
No doubt.  I'm sure he was working his ass off to minimize it.

This whole thing still seems bizarre to me.  Could he have been the point man on the Osuna deal?  Taking the fallout personally and dealing with it in such an immature fashion would fit that to me.

This seems very likely to me.

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« Reply #167 on: October 25, 2019, 08:18:55 am »
Luhnow didn’t look so good at his PC.

https://twitter.com/thehazelmae/status/1187505844591697920?s=21

And: https://twitter.com/chandler_rome/status/1187510010328293377?s=21

Taubman has paid for his indiscretion with his job and possibly his career. At this point the media should STFU and move on.

Limey

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« Reply #168 on: October 25, 2019, 08:33:56 am »
Taubman has paid for his indiscretion with his job and possibly his career. At this point the media should STFU and move on.

The questions captioned above were, unfortunately, spot on.  Firing Taubman addressed his part in it, but the Astros are trying to use one punishment to pay for two crimes.

I’m sure it will go away now, but this remains an open sore and the Astros are leaving it that way in the hope that people will stop picking at it. 

Also, the failure to reach out to the targets of Taubman’s rant is terrible.  Those calls should have been made the second after Taubman left Luhnow’s office having been fired. 

“Hi.  This is Jeff Luhnow.  I wanted to let you know - before it is announced to the media - that we have terminated Brandon Taubman’s employment with the Astros effective immediately.  We are so sorry for what he did and, for our part, in being too slow to take this obvious and necessary action.  Blah, blah.  Etc, etc.“
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 08:35:49 am by Limey »
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #169 on: October 25, 2019, 09:02:00 am »
This whole thing still seems bizarre to me.  Could he have been the point man on the Osuna deal?  Taking the fallout personally and dealing with it in such an immature fashion would fit that to me.

My understanding is that he was central to putting together the Osuna deal and that was one of the achievements that sent him quickly up the chain in the organization.
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TerryPuhl21

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #170 on: October 25, 2019, 10:15:13 am »
The questions captioned above were, unfortunately, spot on.  Firing Taubman addressed his part in it, but the Astros are trying to use one punishment to pay for two crimes.

I’m sure it will go away now, but this remains an open sore and the Astros are leaving it that way in the hope that people will stop picking at it. 

Also, the failure to reach out to the targets of Taubman’s rant is terrible.  Those calls should have been made the second after Taubman left Luhnow’s office having been fired. 

“Hi.  This is Jeff Luhnow.  I wanted to let you know - before it is announced to the media - that we have terminated Brandon Taubman’s employment with the Astros effective immediately.  We are so sorry for what he did and, for our part, in being too slow to take this obvious and necessary action.  Blah, blah.  Etc, etc.“


^^This!


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #171 on: October 25, 2019, 10:36:04 am »
Taubman has paid for his indiscretion with his job and possibly his career. At this point the media should STFU and move on.
Unlikely to happen when there is so much virtue and righteousness to demonstrate.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #172 on: October 25, 2019, 10:38:14 am »
Taubman has paid for his indiscretion with his job and possibly his career. At this point the media should STFU and move on.

Not a great take/look here.

When you're involved in something really shitty, airily apologizing and touting you've fixed the problem is not enough.

Own it, admit you fucked up, and sincerely apologize for being a part of it.

If they can't let go after that, there's not much you can do.

But that's the least you can do after being a complete cockgobbler.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #173 on: October 25, 2019, 11:01:36 am »
Taubman has paid for his indiscretion with his job and possibly his career. At this point the media should STFU and move on.

Possibly his career?  He was in line to be a big league general manager in the next 5-10 years....millions of dollars per year in a high profile gig.  He's now relegated to promotions director at some Independent League team in Bumfuck, Nebraska. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #174 on: October 25, 2019, 11:29:59 am »
Unlikely to happen when there is so much virtue and righteousness to demonstrate.

Absolutely, perpetual outrage is how society rolls. Having the interlopers enter the center of the governing universe simply compounds the invective. The Athletic has an article up wanting the architects of the initial team response to be fired also

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #175 on: October 25, 2019, 12:10:56 pm »
Absolutely, perpetual outrage is how society rolls. Having the interlopers enter the center of the governing universe simply compounds the invective. The Athletic has an article up wanting the architects of the initial team response to be fired also

Which is shocking since the Athletic is a well-reasoned outlet.  Not every bone-headed, wrong thing done in the workplace demands that someone get fired.  Sometimes, people actually learn from their mistakes and become better employees because of it.  The Astros have to balance the court of public opinion mob against what they will communicate to the larger Astros workforce about a hostile, inflexible workplace where mistakes are met with harsh consequences.  Which is particularly tough since they are in the entertainment business with only one degree of separation between their product and their consumer.
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #176 on: October 25, 2019, 12:20:49 pm »
Which is shocking since the Athletic is a well-reasoned outlet. 

Then it's likely there more as clickbait and pay me than anything else.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #177 on: October 25, 2019, 12:54:53 pm »
Then it's likely there more as clickbait and pay me than anything else.

Not sure if serious... The Athletic is subscription driven and does not have ads of any kind. They don't do clickbait.

I thought this thread was a pretty cogent series of observations on the whole debacle:

https://twitter.com/eephusasher/status/1187544300680294401?s=21
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #178 on: October 25, 2019, 01:18:13 pm »
Not sure if serious... The Athletic is subscription driven and does not have ads of any kind. They don't do clickbait.

I thought this thread was a pretty cogent series of observations on the whole debacle:

https://twitter.com/eephusasher/status/1187544300680294401?s=21

The values that Footer is expressing is that she wants Osuna off the team. She only tweets it when he pitches and she is smart enough to know it associates the Astros with DV. The number of women who follow her who don't know about DV hotlines and are victims of violence are beyond microscopic; however, her twitter audience is mostly male baseball fans and she wants them to find Osuna unacceptable without her losing her job. Footer has also been around long enough to have a huge number of back channels and favors in the bank to organize a smear campaign against Taubman without having to do it herself.

I'm not saying that she did anything wrong, but she wasn't an innocent person minding her own business either as that person seems to want to portray her.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #179 on: October 25, 2019, 01:26:12 pm »
The values that Footer is expressing is that she wants Osuna off the team. She only tweets it when he pitches and she is smart enough to know it associates the Astros with DV. The number of women who follow her who don't know about DV hotlines and are victims of violence are beyond microscopic; however, her twitter audience is mostly male baseball fans and she wants them to find Osuna unacceptable without her losing her job. Footer has also been around long enough to have a huge number of back channels and favors in the bank to organize a smear campaign against Taubman without having to do it herself.

I'm not saying that she did anything wrong, but she wasn't an innocent person minding her own business either as that person seems to want to portray her.

The Astros made this choice, not Footer. The team should be doing more of what she is doing.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #180 on: October 25, 2019, 01:30:39 pm »
The values that Footer is expressing is that she wants Osuna off the team. She only tweets it when he pitches and she is smart enough to know it associates the Astros with DV. The number of women who follow her who don't know about DV hotlines and are victims of violence are beyond microscopic; however, her twitter audience is mostly male baseball fans and she wants them to find Osuna unacceptable without her losing her job. Footer has also been around long enough to have a huge number of back channels and favors in the bank to organize a smear campaign against Taubman without having to do it herself.

I'm not saying that she did anything wrong, but she wasn't an innocent person minding her own business either as that person seems to want to portray her.

GTFO

The ASTROS traded for a wife beater.  Some people have a problem with that.  If you don't that is your choice.  But there is absolutely nothing wrong with others pointing out what Osuna did, despite the fact that it triggers a certain group of snowflakes. 

If Taubman and the Astros can't handle criticism of bringing in a wife beater, then maybe they should have not traded for him. 
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #181 on: October 25, 2019, 01:40:01 pm »
GTFO

The ASTROS traded for a wife beater.  Some people have a problem with that.  If you don't that is your choice.  But there is absolutely nothing wrong with others pointing out what Osuna did, despite the fact that it triggers a certain group of snowflakes. 

If Taubman and the Astros can't handle criticism of bringing in a wife beater, then maybe they should have not traded for him.

Worse: the Astros only got him because of his domestic violence.  They took advantage of the situation to pick up a player for cheap because he was, at that moment, toxic.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #182 on: October 25, 2019, 01:55:16 pm »
organize a smear campaign against Taubman

lol
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #183 on: October 25, 2019, 02:07:12 pm »
More from the Athletic, with quotes from current and former (anonymous) Astros employees.

Taubman saga exposes longstanding questions about the Astros’ culture under Jim Crane and Jeff Luhnow

Quote
One ex-Astros baseball operations employee said this week that when they left for another team, they did so specifically because of the culture of the front office. They’re not alone, though an exact number is unclear. The Osuna acquisition was eye-opening for many.

Makes you wonder if people like Sig Mejdal left for Baltimore for this reason.

The Spleen

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #184 on: October 25, 2019, 02:10:00 pm »
My take on this debacle, via Twitter.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #185 on: October 25, 2019, 02:24:13 pm »
My take on this debacle, via Twitter.

Similar to what I've been thinking.  Since the trade, they've had to take the heat for the trade with no outlet to defend externally.  Internally, defense of it becomes identity.  Explains why it would be so easy to readily accept Taubman's account.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #186 on: October 25, 2019, 02:33:45 pm »
GTFO

The ASTROS traded for a wife beater.  Some people have a problem with that.  If you don't that is your choice.  But there is absolutely nothing wrong with others pointing out what Osuna did, despite the fact that it triggers a certain group of snowflakes. 

If Taubman and the Astros can't handle criticism of bringing in a wife beater, then maybe they should have not traded for him.

Not saying she is wrong and she is entitled to her opinion either way.

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #187 on: October 25, 2019, 02:44:27 pm »
Like some are want to do, I’m not gonna make this about the Osuna trade. This is about the reprehensible behavior by the assistant to the GM. Taubman fucked up and crossed the line. The Astros as an organization initially responded badly and then walked back their initial response and responded correctly. I’m moving on.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #188 on: October 25, 2019, 02:52:31 pm »
So I guess I’ll ask the question.

Do the Astros dump Osuna, either via trade or outright release, in the off-season in an effort to try and right this ship in the face of all that has gone on?


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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #189 on: October 25, 2019, 02:57:33 pm »
So I guess I’ll ask the question.

Do the Astros dump Osuna, either via trade or outright release, in the off-season in an effort to try and right this ship in the face of all that has gone on?


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I expect they'll go back to touting his clean record since joining the Astros and all the work the org has done in the community the past year and a half.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #190 on: October 25, 2019, 02:58:05 pm »
So I guess I’ll ask the question.

Do the Astros dump Osuna, either via trade or outright release, in the off-season in an effort to try and right this ship in the face of all that has gone on?


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Personally, IMO, no.  That is my answer to this date.  They decided to give him a second chance.  If he screws up his second chance, then let him go.  I say, trying to make him a better man is better for society, than not.  But, giving chances are always limited.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #191 on: October 25, 2019, 03:59:04 pm »
Let’s not ignore the fact that media possess a herd mentality with a preferred narrative of good vs evil. We ‘re playing a team whose last championship was during the flapper era, and whose fan theme song is a pre-K ditty about baby sharks. Until and unless we start winning, the stories will continue unabated. Taubman lays bare the downside of the analytics approach, as opposed to the classic “eyetest”.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27916163/why-astros-win-world-series-why

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #192 on: October 25, 2019, 04:31:38 pm »
More from the Athletic, with quotes from current and former (anonymous) Astros employees.

Taubman saga exposes longstanding questions about the Astros’ culture under Jim Crane and Jeff Luhnow

Makes you wonder if people like Sig Mejdal left for Baltimore for this reason.

I have no doubt there are parts of the article that are factually accurate.  It was also written by Evan Drellich.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #193 on: October 25, 2019, 05:06:21 pm »
I have no doubt there are parts of the article that are factually accurate.  It was also written by Evan Drellich.
Passan’s latest column strikes a lot of the same chords. Or do we hate him now too?

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #194 on: October 25, 2019, 05:57:31 pm »
I'll say it again.  I have no doubt that parts of the article are factually accurate. 

I also have no problem saying I struggle to take Evan Drellich seriously as a journalist.

ETA: Those two sentiments are not mutually exclusive.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 05:59:11 pm by Mike S. »
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #195 on: October 27, 2019, 11:33:23 am »
Possibly his career?  He was in line to be a big league general manager in the next 5-10 years....millions of dollars per year in a high profile gig.  He's now relegated to promotions director at some Independent League team in Bumfuck, Nebraska.
I think the desire to hire a baseball executive with taubman's experience in the elite baseball organization outwieghs the minimal reputational costs. Taubman was unknkown to the general public before his outburst. Another mlb team will pick him up this winter.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #196 on: October 27, 2019, 12:28:05 pm »
Yesterday Crane sent a letter to Apstein apologizing to her and officially retracting the original bullshit statement.

“On behalf of the entire Astros organization, I want to personally apologize for the statement we issued on Monday October 21st,” Crane wrote. “We were wrong and I am sorry that we initially questioned your professionalism. We retract that statement, and I assure you that the Houston Astros will learn from this experience.”
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #197 on: October 27, 2019, 12:31:24 pm »
Yesterday Crane sent a letter to Apstein apologizing to her and officially retracting the original bullshit statement.

“On behalf of the entire Astros organization, I want to personally apologize for the statement we issued on Monday October 21st,” Crane wrote. “We were wrong and I am sorry that we initially questioned your professionalism. We retract that statement, and I assure you that the Houston Astros will learn from this experience.”

That's good.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #198 on: October 27, 2019, 11:08:04 pm »
I don't know what the problem with all of this is. It's not like Osuna took a knee during the national anthem.
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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #199 on: October 28, 2019, 07:33:50 am »
Or supported freedom in Hong Kong.
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The Spleen

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #200 on: October 28, 2019, 12:52:50 pm »
Well, we can't say our President has never done anything for us, as it looks like this is going to be remembered nationally as the Donald Trump Series instead of the Brandon Taubman Series...
When the Clark is dead, Spack will eat his spleen. Before he dies, Spack will put his posts under the knife so the Clark will see his threads wiped out forever...

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Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #201 on: October 30, 2019, 04:10:19 pm »
Well, we can't say our President has never done anything for us, as it looks like this is going to be aremembered nationally as the Donald Trump Series instead of the Brandon Taubman Series...
Who is brandon taubman?
Go Astros.
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