Author Topic: Latest Controversy  (Read 4513 times)

astrojo

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 2750
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 12:33:12 am by astrojo »

MusicMan

  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 25907
  • Thanks for 2015
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2019, 11:45:13 pm »
The Astros came out swinging, calling it a complete fabrication of a story by SI. The Chronicle reporters then corroborated the story, with Atkins apologizing for not speaking up sooner, and national media are now asking for video.

The Astros have fucked this up completely and created a HUGE distraction.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Navin R Johnson

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 4865
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 12:16:06 am »
What a cluster.  Whoever signed off on that press release, looks like an absolute dumbass.  Wtf.
There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

chuck

  • Contributor
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 12478
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 02:39:23 am »
Discontent at Taubman's meteoric rise through the Astros FO was allegedly a large reason many familiar names decided to seek opportunity elsewhere. I have no opinion on Taubman's work or value to the organization, but he was promoted very high, very quickly, and the organization clearly values him, and it is unsurprising that they would seek to protect him.

Their method of protection is also unsurprising. In other, similar situations the organization has simply lied - obvious, immediately provable lies. I guess they learned that the local media has no appetite for conflict and that eventually people will forget about the lies and life will move on, and maybe that's the case here, too.

It's very puzzling that the team wouldn't have the awareness to realize that a response such as they gave is not only insulting but also will inevitably create an enormous and unwelcome story line literally on the eve of the World Series, and in this case they can't rely on the inept local media's indolence and general servitude to make it disappear.

Luhnow needs to get out in front of this tomorrow, immediately. But he'll probably end up saying that Taubman's transgressions are really ultimately a net positive since they'll help to raise awareness.
Y todo lo que sube baja
pregúntale a Pedro Navaja

NeilT

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 11664
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 06:39:15 am »
Maybe everything the Astros said was true, but it was still a prime bit of unnecessary rampage. Taubman must have sat near a bunch of Yankee fans all evening.
"I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing... as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”  Charles Grassley

Astros Fan in Big D

  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 10276
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 07:00:04 am »
For an organization that's leading edge in almost every area, their response to this is the most ham fisted disappointment imaginable.

Col. Sphinx Drummond

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 16739
  • art is a bulwark against the irrationality of man
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 07:15:37 am »
If I were Crane or Ryan I would fire Taubman this morning for not being able to control himself and creating an unneeded distraction. His lack of situational awareness is only matched by his insensitivity. I don't care how smart someone, his value is negated if he can't behave properly in crucial moments. This has almost nothing to do with Osuna, it has to do with an indiscretion of Luhnow's top assistant. The fact that Taubman behavior was totally inappropriate and offensive. I'm not easily offended but Taubman's outburst offends me.
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
Truth isn't easy, the easy part's shit

JJxvi

  • Roster Filler
  • Posts: 229
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2019, 07:23:51 am »
I have a some level of care and distaste for Osuna, but kinda feel its just something you basically almost have to live with. After all he's done with law, and served a half season, without pay suspension from MLB as well.

It seems likely that this was an attempt to basically stir shit up (a reporter trying to create the news, essentially, not necessarily malevolently even, but possibly just to shine a light on a cause), and I think thats why you see the very negative reaction from the Astros.  The only real fact that is the heart of this story is the quote by Taubman...a quote that says nothing at all on its face  about domestic abuse or about anything at all really, except that the Astros have Osuna and this executive supports him.  Everything else about the story is just subjective context added to shade the story.  The Astros say he got mad and supported the player, the reporters likely want the impression that this guy is a sexist, anti-woman, who loves domestic abuse and having abusers on his team.

The thing that strikes me as crazy about a story like this is how it ties in to the viral mob, like we're upset that Osuna is playing baseball, but we're supposed to get out our pitchforks and go after this executive and get HIM fired, or whatever?  I'm glad the Astros didnt apologize.  If Taubman was in the worng and an asshole I hope he is punished and even fired if it was really bad and stupid enough, but apologizing in the media for a story like this just encourages the mob, it doesnt make it go away, or even improve the PR, IMO.

 

astrojo

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 2750
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 07:52:46 am »
The team, and I mean actual players, doesn’t deserve to have to deal with yet another controversy distracting the masses from what a bunch of talented, hard working, and tightnit fellows they all are.  Including Osuna. The team has accepted him and given him credit in interviews and their on field interaction with him.  I’m sure he wishes Taubman had just left his name out of his mouth. But the new narrative for this team and organization isn’t superiority, as it should be, but as an evil and unlikeable empire. It could be mentioned that at least 3 of the reporters involved are from New York, including Hunter Atkins of the chronicle.

But I agree this was handled poorly. Taubman should apologize for his likely drunken behavior, fined an undisclosed amount, and banned from further clubhouse celebrations at the very least. Or fired if that is what is needed.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 07:55:47 am by astrojo »

Limey

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 32067
  • Tally Ho!
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2019, 08:02:03 am »
I have a some level of care and distaste for Osuna, but kinda feel its just something you basically almost have to live with. After all he's done with law, and served a half season, without pay suspension from MLB as well.

It seems likely that this was an attempt to basically stir shit up (a reporter trying to create the news, essentially, not necessarily malevolently even, but possibly just to shine a light on a cause), and I think thats why you see the very negative reaction from the Astros.  The only real fact that is the heart of this story is the quote by Taubman...a quote that says nothing at all on its face  about domestic abuse or about anything at all really, except that the Astros have Osuna and this executive supports him.  Everything else about the story is just subjective context added to shade the story.  The Astros say he got mad and supported the player, the reporters likely want the impression that this guy is a sexist, anti-woman, who loves domestic abuse and having abusers on his team.

The thing that strikes me as crazy about a story like this is how it ties in to the viral mob, like we're upset that Osuna is playing baseball, but we're supposed to get out our pitchforks and go after this executive and get HIM fired, or whatever?  I'm glad the Astros didnt apologize.  If Taubman was in the worng and an asshole I hope he is punished and even fired if it was really bad and stupid enough, but apologizing in the media for a story like this just encourages the mob, it doesnt make it go away, or even improve the PR, IMO.


You are parsing the situation here to try and make it look differently to how it actually was in context.  Taubman represents the Astros the same way I represent my company; if I'd done that in such a public situation, I'd be fired.  He should too.  It doesn't matter if he was baited, it's his job not to react in such a boorish way - he's the assistant general manager, not the bat boy.

As for the Astros, principles are only principles if you stick to them when it's inconvenient.  Instead of doing what's right, they sided with their guy and are now going to take the same shit as him even if they do, belatedly, do the right thing.  The original sin of trading for Osuna is now, once again, going to be a hot topic and the Astros are going to be flying their dirty laundry from the fucking foul pole for the entire World Series.

Right now, the Astros are not doing anything to distance themselves from Taubman's position  - that it doesn't matter because winning - and are doing things to adhere themselves to that position.  If the Astros' management truly shares Taubman's opinion regarding Osuna's abuse allegations then they deserve what is coming.  Because of that press release, shit is coming deserved or not.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

Waldo

  • Administrator
  • Pope
  • Posts: 6473
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ashrubbery.com/
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2019, 08:10:35 am »
If I were Crane or Ryan I would fire Taubman this morning for not being able to control himself and creating an unneeded distraction.

I have prepared myself for the possibility that Ryan, and possibly even Crane, signed off on the Astros’ statement. I hope that’s not the case though.

Limey

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 32067
  • Tally Ho!
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2019, 08:16:07 am »
I have prepared myself for the possibility that Ryan, and possibly even Crane, signed off on the Astros’ statement. I hope that’s not the case though.

The Astros may end up having to fire "the person responsible" for that press release (spoiler alert: it won't be Ryan or Crane) as well as Taubman.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

Waldo

  • Administrator
  • Pope
  • Posts: 6473
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ashrubbery.com/
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2019, 08:20:28 am »
It could be mentioned that at least 3 of the reporters involved are from New York, including Hunter Atkins of the chronicle.
The NY angle is a nothing burger. None of the reporters who have corroborated the story were on the Yankees beat, and many national writers are based in NY. Looking too hard for an anti-Astros bias.

jbm

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6608
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2019, 08:23:51 am »
Is boorish behavior by an employee really this much of a crisis, that will consume the series?  I maintain there’s a lot of ground between evil apathy and righteous outrage.

Limey

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 32067
  • Tally Ho!
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2019, 08:26:43 am »
The NY angle is a nothing burger. None of the reporters who have corroborated the story were on the Yankees beat, and many national writers are based in NY. Looking too hard for an anti-Astros bias.

Also, no one is denying that he said what he said; the Astros are trying to argue the context.  However, it's hard to believe that Taubman would suddenly become overwhelmed in that moment with man-love for the closer who had just blown the lead in the 9th that could've torpedoed the Astros entire season, such that he couldn't hold it in any longer and had to shout it into the ether.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

Limey

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 32067
  • Tally Ho!
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2019, 08:27:50 am »
Is boorish behavior by an employee really this much of a crisis, that will consume the series?  I maintain there’s a lot of ground between evil apathy and righteous outrage.

At this moment in time, it's a terminal offense.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29294
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2019, 08:30:31 am »
Oh, great. Nothing like this thread on the morning of the WS opener. The team not only accepted Osuna, they now make their affection for him apparent in words and deeds. Because of the character of the Astros’ clubhouse, their acceptance, which goes well beyond mere tolerance, speaks volumes to me. The alleged victim kept him in her and in their child’s lives. The prosecutors dismissed the charges, the allegations have not been made public, he served a long baseball suspension without pay, yet despite all of this, half of the stuff in this thread are about him and domestic abuse as though it were a proved fact rather than about Taubman’s probably drunken reaction to an aggressive reporter after LeMahieu’s homer and the ill-advised too-aggressive, too-protective press release. May folks hate that the Astros eliminated NYY, and this stupidity gave them cannon fodder.

I agree Luhnow should get out in front of this today. I agree Taubman should be fired. I also think making potentially drunken celebrations open to press and public is a huge mistake. This is about Taubman, not about Osuna, and I hope Crane and Luhnow take control of this stupid and unnecessary distraction.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

astrojo

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 2750
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2019, 08:31:52 am »
The NY angle is a nothing burger. None of the reporters who have corroborated the story were on the Yankees beat, and many national writers are based in NY. Looking too hard for an anti-Astros bias.

I should have clarified by completing my thought - that it could be mentioned, as it has been in many of the twitterverse comments I read last night, but had no bearing whatsoever on exposing Taubman as the douchebag he most certainly is.

Navin R Johnson

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 4865
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2019, 08:31:59 am »
They didn’t need to apologize, especially if they felt the reporting was unfair.  But the Absolute last thing they needed to do was blast out of some Trumpesque Fake News BS press release.   

Simply say something along the lines of, we are aware of a report of inappropriate behavior of an Astros employee, we will launch an investigation into the veracity of the reporting.  If it turns out to be true we will respond appropriately.

I’ll wait for more info to arise before making my final decision on what happened and whether someone should get fired.

I lean towards the reports being more right than wrong.  There is a culture in the astros front office that they shouldn’t be questioned. Luhnow and company have been harboring ill will over the media having the gall to call them out over the Osuna trade.  It’s been festering for awhile now.   
There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

NeilT

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 11664
    • View Profile
Re: Latest Controversy
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2019, 08:33:19 am »
It looks like (1) the Astros got the facts wrong in the press release; (2) Traubman was being an ass at work and embarrassed the organization; and (3) the Stros could have diffused the situation with a simple you-misunderstood-the-motives-but-we-are-so-sorry-our-behavior-was-inexcusable, which was really the only thing appropriate. If Traubman and the Astros intended to defend Osuna they've accomplished exactly the opposite. Osuna and the Astros will never be able to walk away from the domestic violence storyline now.
"I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing... as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”  Charles Grassley