Author Topic: Tipping pitches  (Read 2873 times)

JimR

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Tipping pitches
« on: October 11, 2019, 06:52:12 am »
Every time a pitcher gets hit hard, his (and others’) first thought is “I must be tipping somehow. They knew what was coming.” Well, maybe.

I happen to think it is good baseball to study a pitcher’s grip or mannerisms to determine if he is doing things differently on fast balls and breaking pitches. I did that for three years coaching first base for the Longhorns, and I was able to let the hitters know who wanted to know what was coming. Our first baseman, Bob Snoddy, won the SWC batting title my senior year and gave me credit in a newspaper interview, making Coach Falk apoplectic at this disclosure. One has to be certain when calling pitches for hitters because crossing the hitter up is dangerous and loses his trust in the credibility of the info.

I did this as often as possible coaching HS also. At McCallum in the ‘70s, we faced an outstanding pitcher named Tommy Boggs for three years. I called every single one of his pitches for three years because of a mannerism he had by sticking his tongue in his cheek on curves. He threw very hard, and this helped hitters get ready for his fast ball. Knowing what was coming helped us beat him every time we faced him his sophomore and junior years.

Despite our knowledge, Tommy beat us three times in close games  his senior year, including a playoff game. Shoddy defense at times plus bad luck contributed, and our hitters’ knowing what he was throwing was not the deciding factor in these games. Tommy was big, strong, a fierce competitor, and he had improved so much he was drafted second overall in the first round by the Rangers and played several years in MLB for the Rangers and the Braves.

Here is the bottom line on this issue, as Boggs showed us and as Glasnow showed the Astros after the first inning last night: a hitter can know what the pitcher will throw, either by a call from the bench or by watching for the tell, but he still has to hit the ball. Using tipping pitches as the excuse for being hit hard is at least partially valid, but the excuse also denigrates the hitters’ skills.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 06:56:18 am by JimR »
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Mr. Happy

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2019, 07:32:58 am »
Excellent. Thanks for that. Your last point about the hitters skills being denigrated is true too often. Sometimes, and pretty often, the hitter simply hits a good pitch. Even where the pitcher executes the pitch as called in the right location, sometimes it just gets whacked hard. It's baseball. I tipped my hat to many hitters over the years for simply hitting good pitches. It's really all you can do.
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2019, 07:33:21 am »
Glasnow was holding his glove different for fast balls than he was for curves.
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doyce7

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2019, 07:37:36 am »
Throwing a quality pitch, even if they know it's coming, can still beat guys. Prime example is ALCS game 7 against those damn Yankees, McCullers threw 26 straight curveballs. Everyone knew the curve was coming, McCann wasn't even bothering to put down a sign, and yet they still couldn't hit it.

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Waldo

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2019, 07:41:51 am »
Didn't Tommy Boggs used to run some sort of baseball training facility in Austin?  As a kid I always used to wonder if he was related to Wade Boggs.

Looks like he's coaching at Concordia now.

JimR

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2019, 07:43:48 am »
Glasnow was holding his glove different for fast balls than he was for curves.

You read as well as I do
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JimR

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2019, 07:45:36 am »
Didn't Tommy Boggs used to run some sort of baseball training facility in Austin?  As a kid I always used to wonder if he was related to Wade Boggs.

Looks like he's coaching at Concordia now.

Yes, Austin SLAM. He now is a successful coach at Concordia University.
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2019, 07:47:00 am »
Throwing a quality pitch, even if they know it's coming, can still beat guys. Prime example is ALCS game 7 against those damn Yankees, McCullers threw 26 straight curveballs. Everyone knew the curve was coming, McCann wasn't even bothering to put down a sign, and yet they still couldn't hit it.

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Yeah, you still have to hit it. Everyone knew Bob Gibson was gonna throw a fastball. Few could hit it.
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TeeJoe

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2019, 07:47:40 am »
As Sphinx pointed out his glove location was different. Stros hitters still had to put a good swing on it and were hitting opposite field when they did. Well executed! Also, the pitches being hit in that 1st inning caught a lot of the plate. Glasnow tipped his pitches but I'm thinking he didn't mean to catch that much plate. If he did that's all on him tipping pitches or not. 

Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2019, 07:49:17 am »
You read as well as I do
My reading comprehension is fair. I'm a pretty good listener as well.
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
Truth isn't easy, the easy part's shit

JimR

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2019, 07:49:45 am »
As Sphinx pointed out his glove location was different. Stros hitters still had to put a good swing on it and were hitting opposite field when they did. Well executed! Also, the pitches being hit in that 1st inning caught a lot of the plate. Glasnow tipped his pitches but I'm thinking he didn't mean to catch that much plate. If he did that's all on him tipping pitches or not.

Some talking head pointed this out during the game. To his credit, Glasnow said the problem was too much plate to good hitters, not tipping pitches.
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2019, 07:51:24 am »
Some talking head pointed this out during the game. To his credit, Glasnow said the problem was too much plate to good hitters, not tipping pitches.
I thought you had the sound off.
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
Truth isn't easy, the easy part's shit

JimR

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2019, 08:04:22 am »
I thought you had the sound off.

I did for the entire game, but I read today’s comments just like you.
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Astros Fan in Big D

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2019, 08:05:59 am »
Kevin Cash handled it very well.

When asked he said he knew there was speculation,  but credit should be given to the guys who hit line drives.

Enjoyed that story,  Jim.

JimR

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2019, 08:07:14 am »
Kevin Cash handled it very well.

When asked he said he knew there was speculation,  but credit should be given to the guys who hit line drives.

Enjoyed that story,  Jim.

I agree re Cash. Glasnow too.

Thanks.
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juliogotay

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2019, 10:13:47 am »
I agree re Cash. Glasnow too.

Thanks.

Cash is a class-act. No surprise he and Hinch are friends. I wish this club well in the future when not playing Houston.

juliogotay

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2019, 10:15:24 am »
Every time a pitcher gets hit hard, his (and others’) first thought is “I must be tipping somehow. They knew what was coming.” Well, maybe.

I happen to think it is good baseball to study a pitcher’s grip or mannerisms to determine if he is doing things differently on fast balls and breaking pitches. I did that for three years coaching first base for the Longhorns, and I was able to let the hitters know who wanted to know what was coming. Our first baseman, Bob Snoddy, won the SWC batting title my senior year and gave me credit in a newspaper interview, making Coach Falk apoplectic at this disclosure. One has to be certain when calling pitches for hitters because crossing the hitter up is dangerous and loses his trust in the credibility of the info.

I did this as often as possible coaching HS also. At McCallum in the ‘70s, we faced an outstanding pitcher named Tommy Boggs for three years. I called every single one of his pitches for three years because of a mannerism he had by sticking his tongue in his cheek on curves. He threw very hard, and this helped hitters get ready for his fast ball. Knowing what was coming helped us beat him every time we faced him his sophomore and junior years.

Despite our knowledge, Tommy beat us three times in close games  his senior year, including a playoff game. Shoddy defense at times plus bad luck contributed, and our hitters’ knowing what he was throwing was not the deciding factor in these games. Tommy was big, strong, a fierce competitor, and he had improved so much he was drafted second overall in the first round by the Rangers and played several years in MLB for the Rangers and the Braves.

Here is the bottom line on this issue, as Boggs showed us and as Glasnow showed the Astros after the first inning last night: a hitter can know what the pitcher will throw, either by a call from the bench or by watching for the tell, but he still has to hit the ball. Using tipping pitches as the excuse for being hit hard is at least partially valid, but the excuse also denigrates the hitters’ skills.

Great post, Jim.

JimR

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2019, 10:19:22 am »
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

juliogotay

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2019, 10:22:23 am »
Thank you, JG.

You are welcome. Thanks for sharing it.

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Re: Tipping pitches
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2019, 10:47:08 am »
What happened last night happens literally every single pitch of every single baseball game ever played.  The pitcher tries to fool the hitter, the hitter tries to recognize what pitch is being thrown and hit it.  This is the foundation of the game itself.  It's mindboggling that anyone who has ever seen a game even bats an eyelash.  THIS IS THE GAME OF BASEBALL!!!!
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.