Author Topic: NLDS  (Read 2660 times)

jbm

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #120 on: October 10, 2019, 11:19:50 am »
More importantly, has he succeeded in a reliever’s role before?  I don’t know, maybe he has, but just being a great pitcher doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll be great in an unfamiliar role.

Limey

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #121 on: October 10, 2019, 11:26:50 am »
Kinda puts an end to the debate about whether to start JV on Tuesday or have him available in the pen.  He gave up 3 runs very quickly, but there was still plenty of time to recover from that.  Doing that in the 7th or later is an atomic cockpunch*.

* I am not sure where on this scale sits giving up 10 in the 1st. 
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doyce7

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #122 on: October 10, 2019, 11:27:03 am »
More importantly, has he succeeded in a reliever’s role before?  I don’t know, maybe he has, but just being a great pitcher doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll be great in an unfamiliar role.
He's been mostly successful in the few times he's been asked to do it. It gets forgotten because they were already down and never came back but he threw 4 scoreless innings against the Astros in game 7 to give the Dodgers a chance to come back. Had been scoreless in his last 3 postseason relief appearances before last night.

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GreatBagwellsBeard

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #123 on: October 10, 2019, 11:28:02 am »
Not going to Jansen sooner is crazy, too.  He and Kershaw were warming up at the same time, but Jansen didn't pitch until after the grand slam.
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doyce7

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #124 on: October 10, 2019, 11:28:28 am »
Kinda puts an end to the debate about whether to start JV on Tuesday or have him available in the pen.  He gave up 3 runs very quickly, but there was still plenty of time to recover from that.  Doing that in the 7th or later is an atomic cockpunch*.

* I am not sure where on this scale sits giving up 10 in the 1st.
I think giving up 10 in the first inning is basically punching yourself in the dick repeatedly for 3 hours

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doyce7

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #125 on: October 10, 2019, 11:29:42 am »
Not going to Jansen sooner is crazy, too.  He and Kershaw were warming up at the same time, but Jansen didn't pitch until after the grand slam.
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jbm

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #126 on: October 10, 2019, 11:30:41 am »
He's been mostly successful in the few times he's been asked to do it. It gets forgotten because they were already down and never came back but he threw 4 scoreless innings against the Astros in game 7 to give the Dodgers a chance to come back. Had been scoreless in his last 3 postseason relief appearances before last night.

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Thanks. That makes the move seem reasonable, IMO.

homer

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #127 on: October 10, 2019, 12:15:25 pm »
Not going to Jansen sooner is crazy, too.  He and Kershaw were warming up at the same time, but Jansen didn't pitch until after the grand slam.

After walking Soto and loading the bases, he should have changed. After the grand slam, Kelly pitched to two more batters!
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #128 on: October 10, 2019, 01:09:08 pm »
As I understand it Kershaw was pretty excellent in the second half. I thought leaving him in to face Soto made sense.

And Jansen really didn't have a very good year, but it is nuts that Kelly stayed in so long.

All these scandalous IBBs make Hinch's policy on them--as someone noted earlier--look especially smart.

juliogotay

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #129 on: October 10, 2019, 01:36:17 pm »
If you think he’s been that the last couple of years, check again.


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That was intended as sarcasm on my part and, clearly, I failed miserably. I have been tired of the Kershaw worship since 2017. He seems to still be a good pitcher but he fails in the most inopportune times (if you are a Dodger teammate, coach or fan).

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #130 on: October 10, 2019, 01:38:54 pm »
Yeah, I feel like the IBB to Soto to load the bases with no outs in a tie game was a worse call than throwing Kershaw.  Yeah, it's Soto, and yeah, it makes a force play possible anywhere.  But it also puts all of the runners - notably, the runner on third - in motion on any ground ball, and that run likely scores on a grounder of any reasonable depth.  I would have preferred to take my chances with first base open, make the runner have to think about whether he'll break for home or not, and either hold him or cut him down at the plate.

With one out, or with a different score, the IBB would make a lot more sense to me.

Jacksonian

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #131 on: October 10, 2019, 01:54:25 pm »
As I understand it Kershaw was pretty excellent in the second half. I thought leaving him in to face Soto made sense.

And Jansen really didn't have a very good year, but it is nuts that Kelly stayed in so long.

All these scandalous IBBs make Hinch's policy on them--as someone noted earlier--look especially smart.

It was the 8th inning.  He didn't need Kershaw to be the setup man or extended closer.  He should have brought Kelly or Maeda in to start the 8th.  2 of the 3 first batters were right handed.  If they pitch the way they're capable you go to the 9th with the lead.  If he doesn't get Rendon, you bring in the LOOGY Kolarek to face Soto.  Afterward you bring in Kelly or Maeda whoever didn't start the inning.  At that point you've got the bottom half of their order.  If you don't think Jansen can handle that he has no reason to be on the roster.
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JimR

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #132 on: October 10, 2019, 02:39:35 pm »
It was the 8th inning.  He didn't need Kershaw to be the setup man or extended closer.  He should have brought Kelly or Maeda in to start the 8th.  2 of the 3 first batters were right handed.  If they pitch the way they're capable you go to the 9th with the lead.  If he doesn't get Rendon, you bring in the LOOGY Kolarek to face Soto.  Afterward you bring in Kelly or Maeda whoever didn't start the inning.  At that point you've got the bottom half of their order.  If you don't think Jansen can handle that he has no reason to be on the roster.

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VirtualBob

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #133 on: October 10, 2019, 02:55:49 pm »
Nevermind. Nothing to see here.
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #134 on: October 10, 2019, 05:18:30 pm »
If you don't think Jansen can handle that he has no reason to be on the roster.

I'm not sure about this argument anymore. A cousin of mine was saying Why the fuck is Urquidy on the roster if he doesn't start game 4, and I'm saying: He's on the roster because they thought he was the best of their remaining options, which does not necessitate playing a guy in any given situation.

The Astros had Wayne Franklin on the roster but I don't think Dierker was wrong not to pitch him against Bonds.

The Dodgers I imagine would've felt comfortable bringing Jansen in up multiple runs for a save. He's blown 8 this year. I imagine Dave Roberts thought that Kershaw--who'd K'd the last batter of the 7th on three straight--was as good or better an option against Rendon and Soto  than anybody else he had. Which isn't an insane proposition. Increasingly the new paradigm is: in the postseason, in do-or-die games, throw your best arms. This is not controversial. He might also have known something about Jansen nobody else did, and might have been saving Kolarek and Maeda et al for hypothetical match-ups in the 9th.

The Roberts Dodgers have won 393 regular season games over the last four years. If you say he's a shitty manager, then you have to admit they've done a pretty decent job succeeding in spite of him. Maybe you want to make the argument he's a good regular season manager and a lousy postseason manager. My hunch is that he's a system manager, and that he's implementing the will of Andrew Friedman.

VirtualBob

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #135 on: October 10, 2019, 05:28:39 pm »
If you say he's a shitty manager, then you have to admit they've done a pretty decent job succeeding in spite of him. Maybe you want to make the argument he's a good regular season manager and a lousy postseason manager. My hunch is that he's a system manager, and that he's implementing the will of Andrew Friedman.
I'll take door #1.  A good manager adjusts for situations, including the overall importance of an individual game, which does vary between regular season and post-season, but which also has variations within either.  Roberts seems consistently to be wrong-footed by the other manager's moves.  The talent on the recent Dodgers teams carries him, but he does not seem to recognize what is happening to him on the chessboard.
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homer

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #136 on: October 10, 2019, 05:38:12 pm »
Rosenthal described Roberts as comfortable in the games that go according to plan, but unable to make adjustments.
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #137 on: October 10, 2019, 06:04:48 pm »
Rosenthal described Roberts as comfortable in the games that go according to plan, but unable to make adjustments.
There's no place for sentiment in a MLB manager's mind. That was/is Roberts' fatal flaw.
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Mr. Happy

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #138 on: October 10, 2019, 09:09:46 pm »

The Roberts Dodgers have won 393 regular season games over the last four years. If you say he's a shitty manager, then you have to admit they've done a pretty decent job succeeding in spite of him. Maybe you want to make the argument he's a good regular season manager and a lousy postseason manager. My hunch is that he's a system manager, and that he's implementing the will of Andrew Friedman.

My Lord, man. The Dojers  front office and ownership assembled a team for the ages, which is why Roberts has succeeded during the regular season. However, it's clear beyond cavil that he's been questioned and lampooned by people who know concerning his in-game moves during the playoffs. I subscribe to the school (as does AJ Hinch) where in the playoffs, you put your best arm out there, irrespective of whether they've been a starter or reliever. Hinch noticeably out managed Roberts during the 2017 World Series. Some of Roberts moves in the 2018 WS quickened the end of the series in a negative way. He's just not that bright, or he doesn't listen to his bench coach or his bench coach isn't worth a shit. Either way, it's in the game management of the team. I will be shocked if he isn't shitcanned.
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: NLDS
« Reply #139 on: October 11, 2019, 08:19:12 am »
The LA Times is reporting that the Dodgers intend to keep Roberts.
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The rest are pretending, they put on a show
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