Author Topic: Choose Wisely  (Read 2457 times)

toddthebod

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Choose Wisely
« on: September 25, 2019, 10:02:54 am »
If you are the Astros, and you can only afford to keep one, do you keep Springer or Cole?
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2019, 10:22:38 am »
Springer, hands down.

This has been fun with Cole but, you marry George.

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2019, 11:03:08 am »
Springer

geezerdonk

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Choose Wisely
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2019, 11:32:47 am »
Can you keep Springer and Cole if you let Correa go?
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2019, 12:31:07 pm »
isn't  he having stiffness again? 
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toddthebod

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2019, 12:42:45 pm »
Can you keep Springer and Cole if you let Correa go?

I think Correa is gone.  And that won't be a factor in the Springer v. Cole internal debate.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2019, 12:56:29 pm »
I think Correa is gone.  And that won't be a factor in the Springer v. Cole internal debate.
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geezerdonk

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Choose Wisely
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2019, 01:27:46 pm »
What is a contract offer to Correa that would be reasonable both from the club's standpoint and the player's standpoint? Would the club offer anything close to Bregman money given Correa's inability to play a full season in the last few years?
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2019, 01:45:24 pm »
What is a contract offer to Correa that would be reasonable both from the club's standpoint and the player's standpoint? Would the club offer anything close to Bregman money given Correa's inability to play a full season in the last few years?

Correa is to ask for Machado/Harper money, and is not going to settle for less than Bregman money. 
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2019, 01:56:14 pm »
Correa is to ask for Machado/Harper money, and is not going to settle for less than Bregman money.
You’re likely correct, although both of those guys seem overrated and over paid.  Bad deals by the signing teams.

doyce7

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2019, 02:24:47 pm »
I would choose Springer, he the beating heart of this team. Also I think in most cases you keep the position player over the pitcher if only for less injury risk

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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2019, 03:03:52 pm »
Springer.
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DVauthrin

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2019, 03:27:21 pm »
Springer for me, too.
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toddthebod

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2019, 03:27:56 pm »
.

Not by the Astros choice

Yes.  Correa will be asking for a ton of money (at the very least what Bregman got).  And I can't imagine the team giving him anywhere near what he is asking for given his recurring back problems and other injuries. 
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2019, 03:42:34 pm »
Yes.  Correa will be asking for a ton of money (at the very least what Bregman got).  And I can't imagine the team giving him anywhere near what he is asking for given his recurring back problems and other injuries.

Agree.  Correa is at 294 (probably topping out at 296 or 297) games for the last three years out of a possible 486.  I can't imagine them paying Correa Bregman's $11M per year let alone the $28M per year he's due in the last 2 years of his extension in '23 and '24.  Harper/Machado $$ is just crazy talk.

When he is well, CC is one of the most exciting, MVP-caliber players around.  The 60% of games he's played in the last 3 years don't warrant that kind of payout, especially since some percentage of those he's even playing subpar as he deals with, recovers from or gets his timing back after his myriad injuries.

Edited to add:  I trust the Astros braintrust though.  The same "fragile" label was on Brantley as well and look how that's turning out.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 03:44:43 pm by das »
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

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Choose Wisely
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2019, 04:42:27 pm »
Toro got a good audition at third this year. Not sure he is the answer but he certainly could be. I wonder what the third base - short stop free agent list looks like.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2019, 06:21:40 pm »
Toro got a good audition at third this year. Not sure he is the answer but he certainly could be. I wonder what the third base - short stop free agent list looks like.

Whoa there.  I like Toro as much a the next guy, and he's done a good job filling in.  But he's not an everyday player in the big leagues, and he's certainly no replacement for Correa. 
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2019, 06:23:36 pm »
Correa out of the lineup tonight.
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2019, 06:29:13 pm »
Correa out of the lineup tonight.

He's done.  Possibly his career. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

geezerdonk

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Choose Wisely
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2019, 06:30:03 pm »
But he's not an everyday player in the big leagues.

Ever or just now?
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Choose Wisely
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2019, 06:32:37 pm »
Will Carlos appear in a game for the Astros again? Not much time left.
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geezerdonk

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Choose Wisely
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2019, 06:36:49 pm »
According to something called Rotoworld Carlos has already been scratched for tomorrow but is planning to be in the lineup Friday.
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austro

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2019, 06:39:48 pm »
Will Carlos appear in a game for the Astros again? Not much time left.

I don't understand this. He's still under control. He's arb-eligible, but I don't think he's going to be able to put together a strong case in arbitration, specifically because of his injury history. So the Astros will have to pay ($7.5MM? he's making $5.0MM this year), but not so much that it won't be worth taking the chance that he'll actually be healthy next year. If they only get 80-100 games out of him again next year, *then* maybe they do something (e.g., trade).
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austro

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2019, 06:54:11 pm »
Toro got a good audition at third this year. Not sure he is the answer but he certainly could be. I wonder what the third base - short stop free agent list looks like.

The top 3B FAs are Rendon and Donaldson. I'd *love* to have Rendon, but he's going to cost a fortune. Top SS is Gregorius; I guess he could leave the Yankees (I suppose they'd move Torres to SS and make LeMahieu the full-time 2B), but I'd be surprised if that actually happens.

I think it's more likely that if they think they need a future 3B so that they can say goodbye to Carlos, they'll find somebody young they can get in a trade and use Diaz at 3B for a year or two while that somebody develops.
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2019, 07:03:18 pm »
Ever or just now?

I don't see him as ever being.  That doesn't mean he's not useful, I just don't see him being that kind of player. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

geezerdonk

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Choose Wisely
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2019, 07:12:04 pm »
I don't understand this. He's still under control. He's arb-eligible, but I don't think he's going to be able to put together a strong case in arbitration, specifically because of his injury history. So the Astros will have to pay ($7.5MM? he's making $5.0MM this year), but not so much that it won't be worth taking the chance that he'll actually be healthy next year. If they only get 80-100 games out of him again next year, *then* maybe they do something (e.g., trade).

No, you're right. I whiffed on his arbitration years. They have two years to get his back fixed. He will play a lot of games for the Astros I hope.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2019, 09:59:11 am »
Whoa there.  I like Toro as much a the next guy, and he's done a good job filling in.  But he's not an everyday player in the big leagues, and he's certainly no replacement for Correa.

I'd like to see if Toro could be the new Marwin. Maybe not play SS but play ever other IF spot and corner OF.

CC has played in 57.8% of Astros games since the beginning of the 2018 season.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 10:01:08 am by juliogotay »

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2019, 10:05:52 am »
No, you're right. I whiffed on his arbitration years. They have two years to get his back fixed. He will play a lot of games for the Astros I hope.

There ain't no fixin' his back.  It is what it is.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2019, 10:09:10 am »
I'd like to see if Toro could be the new Marwin. Maybe not play SS but play ever other IF spot and corner OF.

CC has played in 57.8% of Astros games since the beginning of the 2018 season.

Diaz is the new Marwin.  You can't have a team full of backup utility players.  Someone has to be the everyday third baseman, and I don't think Toro is the answer.  I've been wrong before, however. 
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2019, 10:45:58 am »
If Correa isn't on the postseason roster, who's your third baseman? Diaz? Toro? Move Yuli to third and put Tucker at first?
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2019, 11:10:00 am »
If Correa isn't on the postseason roster, who's your third baseman? Diaz? Toro? Move Yuli to third and put Tucker at first?

If Correa can't play, it has to be Yuli and Diaz at the corners, and I'd leave Yuli at first.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2019, 11:51:47 am »
If Correa can't play, it has to be Yuli and Diaz at the corners, and I'd leave Yuli at first.

I agree.  Don't move two guys around, just plug Diaz in at 3B.  Not ideal, but it is what it is.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2019, 11:53:37 am »
I agree.  Don't move two guys around, just plug Diaz in at 3B.  Not ideal, but it is what it is.

I agree, but I also like Toro from the left side...would consider him against a pitcher with a quality slider/curve (i.e. Morton, Severino, etc.).

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2019, 11:55:17 am »
I agree, but I also like Toro from the left side...would consider him against a pitcher with a quality slider/curve (i.e. Morton, Severino, etc.).

I would expect Toro would get some playing time.  And if they are lucky enough to have a game in a National League park, I'd like to find a way to still get Alvarez in the lineup.  Let's hope AJ has those decisions to make. 
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2019, 02:06:04 pm »
If Correa isn't on the postseason roster, who's your third baseman? Diaz? Toro? Move Yuli to third and put Tucker at first?

Fuck no!!!! You do not play postseason with a ST lineup.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2019, 02:07:00 pm »
I agree, but I also like Toro from the left side...would consider him against a pitcher with a quality slider/curve (i.e. Morton, Severino, etc.).

Crazy talk.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2019, 08:57:28 am »
Correa is to ask for Machado/Harper money, and is not going to settle for less than Bregman money.
I’d keep Springer over Cole. And the next time Correa is feeling good and producing, I’m dealing him for the best package I can get while the getting is good.


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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2019, 04:10:58 pm »
The Astros are going to offer Cole a shorter term deal, something like 3 years at $100MM. They're pretty sure he's going to take a longer deal, though, but they will make a not unreasonable offer.
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Choose Wisely
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2019, 06:26:35 pm »
Great to hear that the Astros are going to make a reasonable offer. He can make $100MM over the next three years and earn it with the best teammates he will ever have and be backed by the best combination of offense and defense in baseball. No doubt he will get much better offers. As a practical matter, how much difference would an extra $100MM make in his day to day life or does the notoriety of breaking the bank overwhelm all other considerations?
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2019, 07:04:55 pm »
Great to hear that the Astros are going to make a reasonable offer. He can make $100MM over the next three years and earn it with the best teammates he will ever have and be backed by the best combination of offense and defense in baseball. No doubt he will get much better offers. As a practical matter, how much difference would an extra $100MM make in his day to day life or does the notoriety of breaking the bank overwhelm all other considerations?

An extra $20-30 million...every little bit helps feed the family.
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2019, 07:41:53 pm »
An extra $20-30 million...every little bit helps feed the family.
We certainly don't want anyone to go hungry.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2019, 05:28:59 am »
The Astros are going to offer Cole a shorter term deal, something like 3 years at $100MM. They're pretty sure he's going to take a longer deal, though, but they will make a not unreasonable offer.

He might take it to stay and keep the JV/Cole/Greinke staff together.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2019, 10:29:59 am »
Great to hear that the Astros are going to make a reasonable offer. He can make $100MM over the next three years and earn it with the best teammates he will ever have and be backed by the best combination of offense and defense in baseball. No doubt he will get much better offers. As a practical matter, how much difference would an extra $100MM make in his day to day life or does the notoriety of breaking the bank overwhelm all other considerations?

An extra $20-30mil feeds quite a few future generations of Cole’s 

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2019, 11:40:45 am »
An extra $20-30mil feeds quite a few future generations of Cole’s

Room to compromise at four if he tells Boras he wants to stay.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2019, 12:19:46 pm »
He might take it to stay and keep the JV/Cole/Greinke staff together.

I've been watching Cole a lot during the games. The way he interacts with his teammates and coaches. In addition to becoming a better pitcher I have to think he's having the time of his life. And the fan reaction, compared to the atmosphere in Pittsburg, has to be very uplifting. And, as far as I know, Houston has wine and the Hill Country vinyards aren't that far away.

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Choose Wisely
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2019, 01:43:21 pm »
It appears that Verlander and Cole are very close at least professionally. Verlander uses every opportunity to tell anybody who will listen how great the Houston organization is. I am guessing that he is doing some heavy duty lobbying with Cole to convince him to stay.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2019, 02:27:43 pm »
The Astros are going to offer Cole a shorter term deal, something like 3 years at $100MM. They're pretty sure he's going to take a longer deal, though, but they will make a not unreasonable offer.

I don't think it's much of stretch to believe the Angels will offer 6 years and $200 mil.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2019, 02:35:06 pm »
I don't think it's much of stretch to believe the Angels will offer 6 years and $200 mil.

I expect them to offer more and I would consider it insane for him to turn it down. I mean, a hundred million dollars or whatever the difference works out to be? That is a tremendous amount of money.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2019, 02:38:31 pm »
I expect them to offer more and I would consider it insane for him to turn it down. I mean, a hundred million dollars or whatever the difference works out to be? That is a tremendous amount of money.

No doubt.  I was thinking as much as anything about the insanity of offering such a deal.  They need multiple pitchers. Not just one. That contract would put them on the hook for so much money over just 4 players I can't imagine how they'd put together much more a team.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2019, 02:50:43 pm »
No doubt.  I was thinking as much as anything about the insanity of offering such a deal.  They need multiple pitchers. Not just one. That contract would put them on the hook for so much money over just 4 players I can't imagine how they'd put together much more a team.

That would break my heart.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2019, 03:12:45 pm »
I don't think it's much of stretch to believe the Angels will offer 6 years and $200 mil.

They're going to back the money truck up to Joe Maddon's driveway too.

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2019, 03:14:57 pm »
That would break my heart.

If that happened, next year over just Pujols, Upton, Trout, and Cole their payroll would be nearly $120mil.

Simmons, Cozart, and Calhoun are about another $38mil.  And they'd still have to pay another 18 players.

If the Astros sign Cole for similar numbers they might be in the same boat though.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #52 on: October 01, 2019, 03:15:28 pm »
They're going to back the money truck up to Joe Maddon's driveway too.

But that money isn't attached to the luxury tax, right?
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2019, 03:18:21 pm »
Everyone laughs at the Orioles and rightly so, but the Angels are an absolute mess. They're going to come out of this with the best player in baseball and one of the top five starting pitchers in baseball and they're going to do well to get to .500.
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Astros Fan in Big D

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #54 on: October 01, 2019, 03:26:57 pm »
But that money isn't attached to the luxury tax, right?

I believe that's right.   They're gonna try to money-whip themselves into contention.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 04:12:23 pm by Astros Fan in Big D »

geezerdonk

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Choose Wisely
« Reply #55 on: October 01, 2019, 03:58:17 pm »
How much is Otani going to cost them? I guess, relatively, it will be small potatoes.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #56 on: October 01, 2019, 04:17:07 pm »
How much is Otani going to cost them? I guess, relatively, it will be small potatoes.


Currently he's making $650K.
They paid a $2.3M signing bonus and a $20M fee to his Japanese team.

doyce7

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #57 on: October 01, 2019, 04:52:37 pm »

Currently he's making $650K.
They paid a $2.3M signing bonus and a $20M fee to his Japanese team.
I could be wrong but I don't think his Japanese team got anything because he was out of contract

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #58 on: October 01, 2019, 06:38:54 pm »
I could be wrong but I don't think his Japanese team got anything because he was out of contract

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I'm pretty sure the Angels had to pay the $20MM "posting fee". 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

doyce7

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #59 on: October 01, 2019, 07:14:30 pm »
I'm pretty sure the Angels had to pay the $20MM "posting fee".
Looked it up and you are right, I misremembered the situation. I thought that the only reason he was able to come over so young was that he let his contract run out and avoid the posting but that is simply wrong.

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2019, 09:21:55 pm »
Ohtani is eligible for arbitration after next season.

So he's on the cheap for at least next year.

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2019, 01:19:43 pm »
Chron: Astros owner Jim Crane said on Monday the team "may make a run" at re-signing Gerrit Cole, but intimated he would rather stay below baseball's competitive balance tax.
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2019, 03:51:42 pm »
Chron: Astros owner Jim Crane said on Monday the team "may make a run" at re-signing Gerrit Cole, but intimated he would rather stay below baseball's competitive balance tax.

Chuck’s source should read this.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2019, 05:50:19 pm »
Chuck’s source should read this.

My source is a goddamn minority owner, dude.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2019, 10:02:35 am »
My source is a goddamn minority owner, dude.

My name is not “dude,” but I am glad to hear it.
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jaklewein

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #65 on: October 03, 2019, 10:43:47 am »
My name is not “dude,” but I am glad to hear it.

Can't we just wait till the end of the season to worry about this shit?  We have a big game tomorrow.  That's all that matters right now.

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #66 on: October 03, 2019, 11:07:42 am »
Can't we just wait till the end of the season to worry about this shit?  We have a big game tomorrow.  That's all that matters right now.

No, it is not, but I want to win. Do you fucking think I don’t?
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jaklewein

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #67 on: October 03, 2019, 11:58:41 am »
No, it is not, but I want to win. Do you fucking think I don’t?

Never said you didn't care about winning.  Just struggling to understand why it is so important to worry about Cole's whereabouts for next season now, rather than after the season is over.   

Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #68 on: October 03, 2019, 12:41:25 pm »
My name is not “dude,” but I am glad to hear it.
Don’t call me dude.
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The rest are pretending, they put on a show
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #69 on: October 03, 2019, 12:48:36 pm »
Never said you didn't care about winning.  Just struggling to understand why it is so important to worry about Cole's whereabouts for next season now, rather than after the season is over.
I'm not overly worried and it may not be all that important now. I guess the way I look at it, Cole is a big part of this team and their success. Although this season isn't over, I'm hoping he can be in an Astros uniform beyond this season.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 12:50:28 pm by TeeJoe »

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He breezed him, one more time!

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #71 on: October 03, 2019, 04:58:27 pm »
Don’t call me dude.
Nice.  Glad I'm not the only one who remembers that one.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2019, 02:08:59 am »
Don’t call me dude.

Actually, what I said was “My name is not dude.” Chuck can call me anything he wants and frequently does.
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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2019, 07:50:55 am »
Actually, what I said was “My name is not dude.” Chuck can call me anything he wants and frequently does.

Poetic license is no longer allowed?
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2019, 08:02:28 am »
Poetic license is no longer allowed?

Not unless it's haiku or iambic pentameter.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2019, 08:30:25 am »
Not unless it's haiku or iambic pentameter.
What do you have against dactylic?
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2019, 09:19:00 am »
What do you have against dactylic?
Homer prefers a dactylic hexameter.
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The rest are pretending, they put on a show
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2019, 09:30:28 am »
Homer prefers a dactylic hexameter.

Here's hoping Cole tonight proves himself the second half of a heroic couplet.

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Re: Choose Wisely
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2019, 06:11:07 pm »
Here's hoping Cole tonight proves himself the second half of a heroic couplet.

SFN.

Whatever that means.
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