Off day question

[JimR]

Yesterday, Mark, HH, Drew Corleone,, and I discussed this question I posed:

Which Astros lineup was the best-1998, 2004, or 2019?

We all agreed. What say you?

[Astros Fan in Big D]

2019

[chuck]

2019 and it's not close.

Although once Beltrán showed up that 2004 lineup was pretty salty.

[Ty in Tampa]

2019. Top to bottom, just a nightmare for opposing pitchers.

[geezerdonk]

2019. 2004 lineup is close.

[MusicMan]

If Yuli and Yordan hit like this, 2019 is light years beyond anything else


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NeilT]

Assuming that there's still some sort of social order, 50 years from now a random Houston 12 year old today will be able to say I can name the 2019 Astros lineup top to bottom. This is a historic team.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

1998 is in the Astrosdome so there is that contextual difference. I still like 2019 better. But I would like to have seen what 1998 could put up in MMP.

[MusicMan]

1998 is in the Astrosdome so there is that contextual difference. I still like 2019 better. But I would like to have seen what 1998 could put up in MMP.

But that was the late years Dome, that wasn’t nearly as hard to hit in as the early days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr. Happy]

But that was the late years Dome, that wasn’t nearly as hard to hit in as the early days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2019, and it's not even close.

[JimR]

But that was the late years Dome, that wasn’t nearly as hard to hit in as the early days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mo Alou could hit them out of Yellowstone.

[Mr. Happy]

Mo Alou could hit them out of Yellowstone.

True dat. He still may be the best pure fastball right-handed hitter I've ever seen. However, Yuli of late is looking like a competitor at 35.

[das]

1998 is in the Astrosdome so there is that contextual difference. I still like 2019 better. But I would like to have seen what 1998 could put up in MMP.

I would have liked to have seen that as well. But, agree, 2019 is better.

[JimR]

True dat. He still may be the best pure fastball right-handed hitter I've ever seen. However, Yuli of late is looking like a competitor at 35.

Ball is about to hit him in the chin. Pull those hands in. Boom! Upper deck!

[Mr. Happy]

Ball is about to hit him in the chin. Pull those hands in. Boom! Upper deck!

I think that I vaguely remember seeing that one. Who was the best pure hitter you've ever seen? I'm too young to have seen Teddy Ballgame, and by the time I got interested in baseball, Mickey Mantle was trying to hit with one knee. For me, Barry Bonds was the best overall hitter.

[JimR]

I think that I vaguely remember seeing that one. Who was the best pure hitter you've ever seen? I'm too young to have seen Teddy Ballgame, and by the time I got interested in baseball, Mickey Mantle was trying to hit with one knee. For me, Barry Bonds was the best overall hitter.

Two best hitters I have seen:

Ted Williams
Barry Bonds

[MusicMan]

Two best hitters I have seen:

Ted Williams
Barry Bonds

As much as I hate to say it, Pujols was right there with them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Mr. Happy]

As much as I hate to say it, Pujols was right there with them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The stats say otherwise. Pujols only drew more than 100 walks three times in his career to date. Conversely, Barry Bonds garnered 14 seasons of more than 100 walks, leading the league 11 times. He led the league in walks during his age 42 season. He hit .362 in his age 39 year. Pujols is great and a first ballot HOFer, but Barry Bonds was a far superior hitter. Pitchers intenionally walked Bonds with no one on base. I saw it happen in SFO. I never saw Pujols given that level of respect.

[Tom Servo]

The stats say otherwise. Pujols only drew more than 100 walks three times in his career to date. Conversely, Barry Bonds garnered 14 seasons of more than 100 walks, leading the league 11 times. He led the league in walks during his age 42 season. He hit .362 in his age 39 year. Pujols is great and a first ballot HOFer, but Barry Bonds was a far superior hitter. Pitchers intenionally walked Bonds with no one on base. I saw it happen in SFO. I never saw Pujols given that level of respect.

He was walked with the bases loaded, too.

https://www.mlb.com/cut4/barry-bonds-is-intentionally-walked-with-bases-loaded/c-127075262

[The Third Man]

I think that I vaguely remember seeing that one. Who was the best pure hitter you've ever seen? I'm too young to have seen Teddy Ballgame, and by the time I got interested in baseball, Mickey Mantle was trying to hit with one knee. For me, Barry Bonds was the best overall hitter.

I agree.  I have never seen a hitter so locked in as Bonds was in 2001. Pitchers couldn't make a mistake. Ever.

[subnuclear]

2019 Astros are 3rd in the AL with 5.39 R/G. (high probability of going up if you look at schedule)
2004 Astros were 6th in the NL with 4.96 R/G
1998 Astros were 1st in the NL with 5.40 R/G

I would expect the current team to surpass them if they stay at full steam, but 1998 is awfully close.

Also, not part of the question, but
2017 Astros were 1st in the AL with 5.53 R/G

[JimR]

2019 Astros are 3rd in the AL with 5.39 R/G. (high probability of going up if you look at schedule)
2004 Astros were 6th in the NL with 4.96 R/G
1998 Astros were 1st in the NL with 5.40 R/G

I would expect the current team to surpass them if they stay at full steam, but 1998 is awfully close.

Also, not part of the question, but
2017 Astros were 1st in the AL with 5.53 R/G

Whatever all of that means. I did not bring my slide rule.

[Snuffy]

He was walked with the bases loaded, too.

https://www.mlb.com/cut4/barry-bonds-is-intentionally-walked-with-bases-loaded/c-127075262

TY for this link - amazing respect!  The outfielder feigned a heart attack after making the the catch.

According to this link, it has has been successful four of  the five times it has been done, w/ a Josh Hamilton IBB by TB in 2008.

The Baseball Almanac includes a 6th IBB and the bases full in 1901 when the manager inserted himself as the pitcher, walked in a run w/ an IBB and then retired the next three batters to preserve the win - a strategy has worked five of the six times it has been employed!

[Waldo]

Whatever all of that means. I did not bring my slide rule.

R/G = runs per game

[JimR]

R/G = runs per game

Thanks.

[Jacksonian]

Whatever all of that means. I did not bring my slide rule.

Apropos of nothing, last month my father (76 years old) introduced my son (18) to the slide rule he used in high school in the late 50's.  My son was in awe.

[HudsonHawk]

Apropos of nothing, last month my father (76 years old) introduced my son (18) to the slide rule he used in high school in the late 50's.  My son was in awe.

I have a slide rule, and sort of know how it works, at least the basic principle.  Not sure I could do any real calculations with it though.  I keep it for nostalgic purposes, alongside my Gerber scale and ten points (both of which I *do* know how to use and actually did early in my career), mainly just to impress to the youngsters with old technology.

[juliogotay]

I have a slide rule, and sort of know how it works, at least the basic principle.  Not sure I could do any real calculations with it though.  I keep it for nostalgic purposes, alongside my Gerber scale and ten points (both of which I *do* know how to use and actually did early in my career), mainly just to impress to the youngsters with old technology.

I'm pretty good with a 12" ruler.

[JimR]

I have a slide rule, and sort of know how it works, at least the basic principle.  Not sure I could do any real calculations with it though.  I keep it for nostalgic purposes, alongside my Gerber scale and ten points (both of which I *do* know how to use and actually did early in my career), mainly just to impress to the youngsters with old technology.

I had one and used it in some class at Austin High. That has been a few years, as y’all remind me frequently.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I had one and used it in some class at Austin High. That has been a few years, as y’all remind me frequently.

Some how I didn't know that you were a fellow Maroon.

[JimR]

Some how I didn't know that you were a fellow Maroon.

Wow, I am surprised. Loyal Forever. Class of 1963. Football, basketball, and baseball teams. Austin High on West Avenue, and House Park. Those were the days.

[Mike S.]

Crazy.  My father was class of 1956.

[Mr. Happy]

Wow, I am surprised. Loyal Forever. Class of 1963. Football, basketball, and baseball teams. Austin High on West Avenue, and House Park. Those were the days.

My Lord, this is old home week.

[subnuclear]

I have a slide rule, and sort of know how it works, at least the basic principle.  Not sure I could do any real calculations with it though.  I keep it for nostalgic purposes, alongside my Gerber scale and ten points (both of which I *do* know how to use and actually did early in my career), mainly just to impress to the youngsters with old technology.

I took an aerospace class in HS that trained us to use a circular slide rule, so that we could calculate the plane's altitude with just the barometric pressure and temperature while still flying the plane. Never got in a cockpit, but still it was a cool thing to learn.

[Navin R Johnson]

I'd go, 2019, 1998, then 2004

2019 v 1998
1st Bagwell vs Gurriel.  close to a draw, which is crazy to me, slight edge to Bags
2nd Biggio v Altuve, As of now its 1998 Biggio.
SS Gutierrez/The Viz vs Correa.  Correa
3rd Spiers/Berry vs Bregman, Bregman
LF Alou vs Brantley, Really close but Alou
CF Carl vs George, George
RF D Bell vs Reddick, D Bell
C Ausmus vs Chirinos, Ausmus
DH anyone vs Yordan.  Yordan

[Lefty]

Bonds and Pujols are incredibly similar through age 34 (Pujols is better though, more power less speed, and both debuted at 21), which is when Bonds "allegedly" started trying extra hard, and Pujols started getting hurt and being average.

But yes, juiced Bonds is the craziest, greatest hitter I or most anyone has ever seen.

[austro]

Bonds' 2001 season was amazing. It was like he knew exactly where the boundaries of the strike zone were, and he refused to swing at anything outside those boundaries. And any pitch inside the boundaries got destroyed. I wonder how many swings-and-misses he had that year.

[JimR]

Bonds' 2001 season was amazing. It was like he knew exactly where the boundaries of the strike zone were, and he refused to swing at anything outside those boundaries. And any pitch inside the boundaries got destroyed. I wonder how many swings-and-misses he had that year.

He squared everything up.

[Navin R Johnson]

Maybe I missed it, but JimR, who did you guys think had the best offense?

[JimR]

Maybe I missed it, but JimR, who did you guys think had the best offense?

We all said 2019

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I had to calculate on an abacus and with beans. We were too poor for a fancy slide-rule.

[Navin R Johnson]

I thought it would be the 2019 team by a bigger margin.

[NeilT]

I had to calculate on an abacus and with beans. We were too poor for a fancy slide-rule.

That's why Pythagoreans wouldn't eat beans: they were far too valuable for calculations.

[JimR]

That's why Pythagoreans wouldn't eat beans: they were far too valuable for calculations.

Good one

[HudsonHawk]

I thought it would be the 2019 team by a bigger margin.

The more we discussed, the more I remembered, holy shit that 98 team was good.

[juliogotay]

The more we discussed, the more I remembered, holy shit that 98 team was good.

I was devastated they did not proceed deeper into the post-season.

[Mr. Happy]

I was devastated they did not proceed deeper into the post-season.

Two words: Kevin Brown

[juliogotay]

Two words: Kevin Brown

Yep. Hell, it could happen again. You get a hot pitcher twice in a post-season series.

[Mr. Happy]

Yep. Hell, it could happen again. You get a hot pitcher twice in a post-season series.

Just like my Blues rode a red hot goalie to Lord Stanley's Cup.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I was devastated they did not proceed deeper into the post-season.

Devastated sums it up.

[Ty in Tampa]

The fucking plumber.

[Bench]

I wonder how many swings-and-misses he had that year.

That's an interesting question that I haven't found the answer to.

But here are some FACTS! from his 2004 season:

At week's end, of the 444 pitches thrown to Bonds this season, he deemed only 107 good enough to swing at. He put 59 of those into play, 10 for home runs—an alarming rate of solid, square contact by a rounded bat on a round ball.

In 2004, he reached base 376 times, but only had 373 official at-bats. In the history of Major League Baseball, he's the only player to ever do so, and no one else has even come close.

[subnuclear]

2019 Astros are 3rd in the AL with 5.39 R/G. (high probability of going up if you look at schedule)
2004 Astros were 6th in the NL with 4.96 R/G
1998 Astros were 1st in the NL with 5.40 R/G

I would expect the current team to surpass them if they stay at full steam, but 1998 is awfully close.

Also, not part of the question, but
2017 Astros were 1st in the AL with 5.53 R/G

I wanted to see what the update was on this after yesterday's game and the Astros are up to 5.65 Runs/Game; however, that's only 4th in the AL this year behind Min (5.83), NYY (5.78) and Bos (5.69).

[austro]

I wanted to see what the update was on this after yesterday's game and the Astros are up to 5.65 Runs/Game; however, that's only 4th in the AL this year behind Min (5.83), NYY (5.78) and Bos (5.69).

I wonder what the powers-that-be will do to the baseball this off-season, and what it will mean for different kinds of teams.

[Bench]

The Astros now have the highest run differential in the majors (+240).

The Astros second half run differential alone (+149) would be good for fifth place in the majors overall. 

2019 Run Differentials
1. Astros (240)
2. Dodgers (233)
3. Yankees (169)
4. Twins (168)
5.  Astros in 2nd Half (149)
6. Athletics (138)

[JimR]

The Astros now have the highest run differential in the majors (+240).

The Astros second half run differential alone (+149) would be good for fifth place in the majors overall. 

2019 Run Differentials
1. Astros (240)
2. Dodgers (233)
3. Yankees (169)
4. Twins (168)
5.  Astros in 2nd Half (149)
6. Athletics (138)

And the best lineup has not been altogether in some time.

[austro]

And the best lineup has not been altogether in some time.

Sure, but how would you like to read one of these dozen articles about the woe-is-me Yankees instead? Surely you're really a Yankees fan? Everybody wants the Yankees to win, right?

[Texifornia]

Bonds is the best hitter I've seen. The juice, as far as I know, does not improve his strike zone judgement or contact. Presumably, it did improve his exit velocity somewhat.

2019 over 1998 by a whisker. The thing that impresses me about the 2019 team is how productive the offense has been with multiple starters out for injury. Currently, two major offense producing starters are out in Yuli and Carlos and they still overwhelm almost any offense in the AL.

In October, insha'baseballa, a healthy and dialed in 2019 Astro lineup will inspire dread in opposing pitchers.

[JimR]

Sure, but how would you like to read one of these dozen articles about the woe-is-me Yankees instead? Surely you're really a Yankees fan? Everybody wants the Yankees to win, right?

Fuck the Yankees.

[geezerdonk]

The terms baseball fan and Yankee fan are synonymous. You are not a baseball fan unless you are a Yankee fan. 

[chuck]

I will never forget the look of total incredulity the guy manning my corner bodega in Brooklyn gave me when he discovered that I'm not a Yankee fan.

Djoo no laik Djankee?!?!

In my normal, polite, understated way I started screaming MAN, FUCK DJANKEE!

[Mr. Happy]

The terms baseball fan and Yankee fan are synonymous. You are not a baseball fan unless you are a Yankee fan.

True dat.

[VirtualBob]

The terms baseball fan and Yankee fan are synonymous. You are not a baseball fan unless you are a Yankee fan.

This is the anti-truth.