Author Topic: Ex-Astros News 2019  (Read 19923 times)

jbm

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2019, 08:38:53 pm »
I’ve only seen him a few times in baseball and was surprised he was taken that high but the A’s are no dummies. 15 million seems highly unlikely, almost like he’s trying to provide cover for leaving or going back on a promise he presumably gave them.

I also doubt he’s NFL quality mainly due to size, but the game is changing and he does have a unique skill set.

WVastro

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2019, 11:10:19 pm »
I’ve only seen him a few times in baseball and was surprised he was taken that high but the A’s are no dummies. 15 million seems highly unlikely, almost like he’s trying to provide cover for leaving or going back on a promise he presumably gave them.

I also doubt he’s NFL quality mainly due to size, but the game is changing and he does have a unique skill set.

I grew up in Norman and still bleed Sooner blood no matter what.

If you want my honest opinion... and the same of a few of my close HS friends. This guy is trying to get as much cash as possible as insurance. I don’t blame him. He might know that his size and ability is a factor in both sports. Why not try and get as much now as possible? If something works out, great, everybody is happy. If not... millions of dollars can be a nice consolation.

juliogotay

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2019, 08:05:07 am »
Basically MLB is looking the other way, because they want the big PR win of the dual sport star choosing baseball.


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Every other MLB team needs to call foul if this happens.

Lefty

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2019, 09:26:58 am »
Somebody is going to have to explain this to me, because I don't get it:

MLB rules prohibit players from signing major league contracts, which place players on the 40-man roster, out of the draft. Teams are not allowed to sign amateur players to minor league deals, then immediately give them major league deals, because the latter would be an inducement to sign and a circumvention of the league's finite draft pools. In Murray's case, because he signed a minor league deal, and because his performance at Oklahoma changed the circumstances of his baseball career, Oakland would be within the rules to give Murray a long-term extension if that's what it takes to keep him in baseball, sources tell ESPN.

WTF does this even mean?

From Passan's article:  http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25754391/oakland-athletics-get-ok-mlb-offer-kyler-murray-more-money-stick-baseball
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TerryPuhl21

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2019, 09:55:37 am »
Somebody is going to have to explain this to me, because I don't get it:

MLB rules prohibit players from signing major league contracts, which place players on the 40-man roster, out of the draft. Teams are not allowed to sign amateur players to minor league deals, then immediately give them major league deals, because the latter would be an inducement to sign and a circumvention of the league's finite draft pools. In Murray's case, because he signed a minor league deal, and because his performance at Oklahoma changed the circumstances of his baseball career, Oakland would be within the rules to give Murray a long-term extension if that's what it takes to keep him in baseball, sources tell ESPN.

WTF does this even mean?

From Passan's article:  http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25754391/oakland-athletics-get-ok-mlb-offer-kyler-murray-more-money-stick-baseball
I don’t know why his performance at Oklahoma would have any impact on the rules of the CBA so I won’t even address that part of what Passen wrote in his article. I will say that based on what I’ve heard on MLB Radio, it sounds to me like since he signed his contract a year ago, they can basically go back and renegotiate and give him more money and place him on the 40 man roster. Since at this point it won’t TECHNICALLY be his first contract, I think under the rules of the CBA it is allowed. At least that is the impression I get.

Nate or Hawk can probably clear it up.


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chuck

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2019, 10:09:44 am »
Nate or Hawk can probably clear it up.

My money's on Nate. Hudson's probably still trying to get through the metal detector.
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Nate Colbert

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2019, 12:18:53 pm »
The "Kyler Murray" exception now gives rise to "wink and a nod" type discussions  at the time a player signs after being drafted. The initial bonus is crafted to fall within the restrictions of the bonus pool arrangement. But the player and club also have discussions at that time about further compensation and promises to sign him to a major league contract (prohibited under current rules). Nothing is reduced to writing but is merely a handshake deal.  And if you have your doubts about the clubs following thru on handshake deals note that those occur in the international area all the time. It's how a 14-year old Dominican kid gets taken off the market even though he's not eligible to sign for two more years.

Clubs (and the player) will manufacture excuses as why add'l monies are needed when the time comes. Probably the most likely would be the player claims (with the club going along with the subterfuge) he's going to walk away from baseball if he doesn't get more money. MLB will investigate but probably will have to go along because they created the fucking problem in the first place and absent a smoking gun would likely have to go along with it.

And those handshake deals on the foreign side? Technically not allowed under the rules but MLB has never been able to do anything about it.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 01:27:00 pm by Nate Colbert »

Lefty

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2019, 12:37:21 pm »
Looks like Murray signed his draft deal in June, according to the rules when is the earliest he can sign a MLB contract?  I would think it's any time after his draft season ends?
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Nate Colbert

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2019, 12:51:11 pm »
Looks like Murray signed his draft deal in June, according to the rules when is the earliest he can sign a MLB contract?  I would think it's any time after his draft season ends?

You mean the draft season he spent working out to play football and didn't play 1 inning of baseball? What circumstances can you point to that he deserved to receive such a deal purely in baseball terms? The commissioner's office reviews these contracts and has the power pursuant to the CBA to kill any deal that's an end run around the bonus pool restrictions and other prohibitions that exist. It's a smell test, not a bright line test.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 12:55:04 pm by Nate Colbert »

BizidyDizidy

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2019, 12:57:51 pm »
I don't think this is as egregious as you make it sound - his circumstances really did change. He didn't sign the original contract on the expectation of an increase.
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moriartp

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2019, 01:02:41 pm »
Just end the slotting system already. Let teams pay as much as they’re willing to pay.

jbm

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2019, 01:03:27 pm »
Can signing bonuses be conditioned, either by payout over the years, or requiring payback if the player decides on a new life?  I thought I read that Murray would have to repay his bonus.  That's quite a disincentive, for the average one-sport star?  Also, if Murray decides not to play, I assume he can't come back and play MLB for someone else, correct? 

At any rate, I'm having trouble seeing this as a dangerous precedent.  The first reason is that I don't believe it will actually happen here, as I don't expect the A's to pay.  Secondly, and more importantly, how many draftees have credible leverage to play this game?   I'm trying to think of when this would occur again (predicated on the assumption that the draftee's rights are owned by the signing club).

Nate Colbert

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2019, 01:16:07 pm »
He didn't sign the original contract on the expectation of an increase.

How do you know? Were you a fly on the wall during those negotiations? How many signed players say I'll take your money but then skip my first season? How do you know that when the A's consented to that there wasn't some further discussions about sweeteners in 2019? You can argue the specific circumstances about Murray (and they are compelling) but that's not really the point.  It's what comes AFTER. By creating this exception, creative teams (and agents) now have a loophole they can exploit. And Boras and others WILL exploit it.

BizidyDizidy

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2019, 01:34:36 pm »
How bout you limit it to anyone who wins the Heisman Trophy after signing their contract?
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Lefty

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2019, 01:35:43 pm »
You mean the draft season he spent working out to play football and didn't play 1 inning of baseball?

The A's knew that was going to happen before they signed him.  I'm not arguing one way or the other, just trying to wrap my head around a rather unique situation.
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Nate Colbert

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2019, 01:53:12 pm »
The A's knew that was going to happen before they signed him.  I'm not arguing one way or the other, just trying to wrap my head around a rather unique situation.

And let me clarify: I hope 2-sport athletes like Murray DO play baseball. But this is a problem of MLB's making when they put the draft hard caps in place and now foolishly realize their fuck-up and are trying a band-aid approach that is likely to create even more problems.

Astros Fan in Big D

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2019, 02:55:13 pm »
It'll come down to where he's drafted in the NFL.

Baker Mayfield made around $500,000 per game this season.

Dak Prescott (4th round pick,  3rd year) made around $600,000 for the season.

That's all dictated by the CBA.  If Murray is a high first rounder he'll make serious bank quickly, and likely play quickly as well.

(This may be the lone exception where the NFL's CBA compares favorably from a player's perspective to MLB's)


VirtualBob

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2019, 03:38:58 pm »
It'll come down to where he's drafted in the NFL.

Baker Mayfield made around $500,000 per game this season.

Dak Prescott (4th round pick,  3rd year) made around $600,000 for the season.

That's all dictated by the CBA.  If Murray is a high first rounder he'll make serious bank quickly, and likely play quickly as well.

(This may be the lone exception where the NFL's CBA compares favorably from a player's perspective to MLB's)
Which is also why this is going on now ... NFL teams who want him may need to draft him higher to be able to compete with baseball. Or they might just do the smart thing and pass.  :)
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2019, 07:40:59 pm »
If Kyler asks me, I'm going to encourage him to follow his heart and try to balance that with taking as much money as others are willing to give. Otherwise, my opinion, like that of everyone else here, is vaporous.
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Nate Colbert

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Re: Ex-Astros News 2019
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2019, 07:58:42 pm »
Added Seattle...

Minor Leagues
Casey Candaele--manager at short season Vancouver/skill development coordinator (Blue Jays)
Adam Everett--infield coordinator (Braves)
Mike Brumley--hitting coordinator (Braves)
Doug Mansolino--field coordinator (Braves)
Dave Wallace--director of pitching (Braves)
Greg Gross--hitting coach @ AAA Reno (D-Backs)
Doug Drabek--pitching coach @ AA Jackson (D-Backs)
Franklin Stubbs--hitting coach @ short-season Hillsboro (D-Backs)
Pete Harnisch--special assignment pitching coach (Mariners)
Jimmy Van Ostrand--peak performance coach (Mariners)

Randy Knorr--manager @ AAA Fresno (Nats)
Jimmy Jones--pitching coach @ AA Amarillo (Padres)
Burt Hooton--pitching coach @ low-A Fort Wayne (Padres)
John Halama--pitching coach @ short-season Peoria (Padres)
Jonathan Meyer--fielding coach @ short-season Peoria (Padres)
Danny Darwin--pitching coach @ AA Chattanooga (Reds)
Daryle Ward--hitting coach @ AA Chattanooga (Reds)
Ricky Gutierrez--manager @ hi-A Daytona (Reds)
Rich Gedman--hitting coach @ AAA Pawtucket (Red Sox)
Doug Henry--pitching coach @ AA Northwest Arkansas (Royals)
Brooks Conrad--manager @ low-A Lexington (Royals)
Harry Spilman--special ass't to player development (Royals)
Leon Roberts--senior hitting advisor (Royals)
Willie Blair--pitching coach @ low-A West Michigan (Tigers)