Bryce Harper

[JimR]

Rosenthal says Luhnow traded for him on 7/30, but Nats ownership said no. Did Cabrera beat me to this?

[austro]

Rosenthal says Luhnow traded for him on 7/30, but Nats ownership said no. Did Cabrera beat me to this?

I don't remember ever hearing anything about that. I wonder who was going to Washington.

[moriartp]

https://theathletic.com/646072/2018/11/10/rosenthal-astros-had-trade-in-place-for-bryce-harper-in-july-but-nats-ownership-said-no/

Bukauskas, Stubbs, and a low-level arm apparently.

[JimR]

I don't remember ever hearing anything about that. I wonder who was going to Washington.

No one did till now.

[The Third Man]

I don't have a subscription to the Athletic. Is the article saying that Luhnow and Mark Rizzo had an agreement to a trade of Harper and the owners overruled this? 

[moriartp]

I don't have a subscription to the Athletic. Is the article saying that Luhnow and Mark Rizzo had an agreement to a trade of Harper and the owners overruled this?

Yep.

[JimR]

I don't have a subscription to the Athletic. Is the article saying that Luhnow and Mark Rizzo had an agreement to a trade of Harper and the owners overruled this?

Yep. Washington owner.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Well that would have been interesting.

[The Third Man]

Jeff Luhnow was certainly swinging for the fences there.

[moriartp]

The article also says they pursued Avisail Garcia after Harper but backed off because of a knee problem (Martes was going to be the return). Garcia's under contract another year—makes me think they'll go get another outfielder this offseason.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if sharing this info with Rosenthal is a signal of interest in Harper...

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Boras says the Harper deal is done.   He just won't say which team.

[BudGirl]

If you get Harper fur the outfield you don't need marwin out there. Could get really interesting.

[austro]

If you get Harper fur the outfield you don't need marwin out there. Could get really interesting.

You still need Marwin for when Harper strains his intercostal, Correa's back acts up, Altuve's knee acts up, or 36-yr-old Gurriel needs some rest.

[BudGirl]

I just said out there, not that marwin wasn't need

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I would prefer not to have that soon-to-be-overpaid-attention-whore on the Astros.

[JimR]

I would prefer not to have that soon-to-be-overpaid-attention-whore on the Astros.

Apparently, Luhnow disagrees.

[WVastro]

I’ve never understood the vitriol for Harper. He has amazing potential. He literally came up to the show as a child with the highest expectations imaginable. He certainly had a few regrettable moments but he’s far from an Odor type of asswipe. I think most of the shit he gets is unwarranted, but I admittedly don’t watch a ton of non Astros baseball. In addition to starting pitching this team needs a legit bat. If they sign Harper I’ll be ecstatic about the potential.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Apparently, Luhnow disagrees.

Do you think Luhnow is interested in signing him to a contract? Obviously he was interested in him for a couple of months use. $300MM or more is a whole different kind of commitment.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I would warm to the guy the moment he put on an Astros jersey.

[doyce7]

I’ve never understood the vitriol for Harper. He has amazing potential. He literally came up to the show as a child with the highest expectations imaginable. He certainly had a few regrettable moments but he’s far from an Odor type of asswipe. I think most of the shit he gets is unwarranted, but I admittedly don’t watch a ton of non Astros baseball. In addition to starting pitching this team needs a legit bat. If they sign Harper I’ll be ecstatic about the potential.

The biggest issue i have with harper is he is incredibly inconsistent. He's had MVP seasons and seasons where he plays like a backup. I wouldn't want to pay a guy a record breaking contract for that one great and 2 or 3 pretty ok seasons

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[JimR]

Do you think Luhnow is interested in signing him to a contract? Obviously he was interested in him for a couple of months use. $300MM or more is a whole different kind of commitment.

I have not read anything about signing him now. My inference was a fairly low cost short term rental to try to replace some of the run production the injuries took away.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

The biggest issue i have with harper is he is incredibly inconsistent. He's had MVP seasons and seasons where he plays like a backup. I wouldn't want to pay a guy a record breaking contract for that one great and 2 or 3 pretty ok seasons

An article in the WaPo on how Boras thinks he can get 10 years at more than 35 million a year for Harper.

[jbm]

The biggest issue i have with harper is he is incredibly inconsistent. He's had MVP seasons and seasons where he plays like a backup. I wouldn't want to pay a guy a record breaking contract for that one great and 2 or 3 pretty ok seasons

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Totally agree.  It would be extremely risky to sink that much of your budget into him.

[BlownRanger]

Has there been any indication as to whether Nats ownership was going to veto ANY Harper trade, or they just didn't like this one?

[HudsonHawk]

Rumor is Harper has agreed to a deal with the Dodgers. Just a rumor at this point, based on a supposed leak in LA front office.

[Reuben]

Rumor is Harper has agreed to a deal with the Dodgers. Just a rumor at this point, based on a supposed leak in LA front office.

They have been trying hard to trade Kemp and/or Puig, perhaps to make room for B-rice.

[juliogotay]

They have been trying hard to trade Kemp and/or Puig, perhaps to make room for B-rice.

Re: the aforementioned Puig  https://twitter.com/InsideBaseball6/status/1074341938059309056
Spoiler: the Astros are mentioned.

[Ty in Tampa]

Puig...
...Astros

Oh, God, no.

[juliogotay]

Oh, God, no.

I know. Me too. I would be shocked.

[moriartp]

Seems extremely unlikely with Brantley in the fold.

[TerryPuhl21]

I know. Me too. I would be shocked.

I would too regarding Puig, but the Astros have had interest in Castellanos before. He’s a great hitter but doubt this happens with Brantley now on the roster.


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[JimR]

Oh, God, no.

This, this, and this

[chuck]

I love Puig. I would love to watch him play every day.

[TerryPuhl21]

I love Puig. I would love to watch him play every day.

I like some of his raw talent, but his antics and attitude I could do without. Reminds me too much of Carlos Gomez.

No thank you!!


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[Reuben]

I love Puig. I would love to watch him play every day.

I have to agree with this statement.

[subnuclear]

Puig is under club control for a year right? Who has Luhnow traded for that only had one year on his contract?

[chuck]

Carlos Gomez is a fuckwit. Puig is just a lunatic.

[Lefty]

Carlos Gomez is a fuckwit. Puig is just a lunatic.

Puig's not a good enough ballplayer to make it worthwhile

[JimR]

I love Puig. I would love to watch him play every day.

Not I. He is good when he chooses to be, though.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

I love Puig. I would love to watch him play every day.

Puig loves Puig more.

[austro]

Puig and Bauer in the same locker room would be interesting, in a "how big will the explosion be?" kind of way.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Though amusing, Puig is not my cuppa tea.

[Sambito Redux]

Are the Astros the mystery team for Harper?  http://totalastros.com/astros-named-mystery-team-in-on-bryce-harper/

Maybe this has been done and dusted awaiting a long time ago --- allowing Jedi Luhn to trade a few of his overstocked pieces?

Kemp, Tucker, Reddick, Stassi, Josh James and Bukauskas plus any takers on AJ Reed/Great white

--- Bring in Harper (OF/DH)
--- Trade for Realmuto (C)
--- Go get the Mets SP Lugo

And we're done.  Maybe a backend bullpen trade, as Obi Wan Crane has suggested?


Lineup

Springer - RF
Altuve - 2B
Harper - DH
Bregman - 3B
Brantley - LF
Correa - SS
Realmuto - C
Gurriel - 1B
Marisnick - CF

WOW!!!!  Go get it done.


Maybe this is why we did not get Goldschmidt, Cruz or do a quick deal for Realmuto (prices continues to decrease presumably)? 

String out BH free agent show, understand the market better through the bidding, and then go in at the end and clean up?

[Lefty]

Do you sign Harper now and give up on signing Correa later?

Just thinking the contracts would be similar-ish.  I think CC is gone, NY-bound?, regardless.

[moriartp]

If I had to choose, I’d choose Harper.

[TerryPuhl21]

If I had to choose, I’d choose Harper.

Me too, but only because Correa, at this point in his career, can’t seem to stay healthy.


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[Lefty]

Me too, but only because Correa, at this point in his career, can’t seem to stay healthy.


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I was just thinking:  if you're gonna spend 300M on somebody, why not now?

[Sambito Redux]

Philadelphia
Chicago WS
Washington

vs.

Houston

No choice really, even if it is less years --- and an opt out clause for each side.  Better than being locked into one of the above teams for a decade.

Sign the Harper!

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Philadelphia
Chicago WS
Washington

vs.

Houston

No choice really, even if it is less years --- and an opt out clause for each side.  Better than being locked into one of the above teams for a decade.

Sign the Harper!

Are those the other teams known to be in contention? The freaking White Sox? What about the usual suspects?

[Sambito Redux]

Are those the other teams known to be in contention? The freaking White Sox? What about the usual suspects?

The Dodgers and Yanks?

https://www.mlb.com/cut4/where-is-bryce-harper-going-to-sign/c-300442812

Sounds like the Cubs are out.
Yanks already have Judge/Stanton etc.
Nats are probably a fall back measure - been there done that

Phillies/Braves/White Sox ----> New Kids on the Block with money to spend (less Atlanta than the other two)

And your beloved Stros --- who tried to trade for him but were denied by executives in Washington.

Your guess is as good as mine --- Dodgers, Angels and Giants could be there too on the left coast.

[Sambito Redux]

Well, lets look at the list

Out or Likely Out                In                         Wild Card                  Out there, Way Out there

Dodgers                                Phillies                          Astros                           Cardinals
Yankees                               Nationals                       Angels                           Giants
Cubs                                    White Sox                   
Atlanta

*** Bowden has gone to the mattresses with Phils and Nats ---- why would he do either of those? Unless money is the central issue.

[doyce7]

Well, lets look at the list

Out or Likely Out                In                         Wild Card                  Out there, Way Out there

Dodgers                                Phillies                          Astros                           Cardinals
Yankees                               Nationals                       Angels                           Giants
Cubs                                    White Sox                   
Atlanta

*** Bowden has gone to the mattresses with Phils and Nats ---- why would he do either of those? Unless money is the central issue.

I've thought all offseason that Harpers market isn't what he thought it would be and the nationals would be the team to finally step up and sign him.

The Phillies are the only other team I could see making a real play for him that he would actually consider. Neither of these guys are going to sign with the White Sox unless they get money whipped and I just can't see that happening realistically.

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[Sambito Redux]

I've thought all offseason that Harpers market isn't what he thought it would be and the nationals would be the team to finally step up and sign him.

The Phillies are the only other team I could see making a real play for him that he would actually consider. Neither of these guys are going to sign with the White Sox unless they get money whipped and I just can't see that happening realistically.

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This is where most are at on this topic... much to do about nothing then.   

Probably should wind down the h-optimism

Cheers Doyce

[Nate Colbert]

This ink-stained wretch for the TBT thinks the Rays should sign Harper on a 1-year/$40MM deal.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2019/02/02/to-ponder-is-bryce-harper-for-one-year-a-worthy-rays-investment/

[JimR]

This ink-stained wretch for the TBT thinks the Rays should sign Harper on a 1-year/$40MM deal.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2019/02/02/to-ponder-is-bryce-harper-for-one-year-a-worthy-rays-investment/

Love the description!

[Lefty]

Love the description!

I have no idea what category this particular wench falls under, because I'm not familiar with her work at all, but good journalists of all kinds should be celebrated, because they are few and far between these days.

[JimR]

I have no idea what category this particular wench falls under, because I'm not familiar with her work at all, but good journalists of all kinds should be celebrated, because they are few and far between these days.

Wretch, not wench

[MusicMan]

Harper sent out a cryptic tweet last night that simply said “Loading...”

This is a clear reference to Ground Control. He’s clearly coming here for the league minimum.


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[Sambito Redux]

Harper sent out a cryptic tweet last night that simply said “Loading...”

This is a clear reference to Ground Control. He’s clearly coming here for the league minimum.


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My money has shifted to the Padres ----  San Diego close to Vegas, Beaucoup d'argent, and a team with a lot of prospects and a few veterans.   Sun, Fun, and Surf...

Hope I am wrong, and he goes Houston Strong.

[subnuclear]

My money has shifted to the Padres ----  San Diego close to Vegas, Beaucoup d'argent, and a team with a lot of prospects and a few veterans.   Sun, Fun, and Surf...

Hope I am wrong, and he goes Houston Strong.

Harper is a tremendous player, but he has lived his whole life preparing to endorse expensive sports shoes. I think he'll want a bigger platform than San Diego.

[MusicMan]

Harper is a tremendous player, but he has lived his whole life preparing to endorse expensive sports shoes. I think he'll want a bigger platform than San Diego.

Aircraft carriers are pretty big platforms.


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[das]

Harper is a tremendous player, but he has lived his whole life preparing to endorse expensive sports shoes.

POTW

[Nate Colbert]

I have no idea what category this particular wench wretch falls under, because I'm not familiar with her his work at all, but good journalists of all kinds should be celebrated, because they are few and far between these days.

"Ink stained wretch" may have been a pejorative once upon a time for a newspaper writer (although there are claims a newspaper writer may himself have coined the phrase) but these days is simply used in an ironic fashion.

Ink Stained Wenches I believe was a Russ Meyer film.

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Ink Stained Wenches I believe was a Russ Meyer film.

2 Girls 1 Inkwell

[VirtualBob]

POTW

NTTAWWT

[Sambito Redux]

Sounds like JLuhnow is happy going into ST.   Harper ain't on the menu, it seems.

[Lefty]

Sounds like JLuhnow is happy going into ST.   Harper ain't on the menu, it seems.

Luhnow's always played things close to the vest so I wouldn't read too much into that quote, but I also personally expect no major moves in the immediate future unless something just falls in their lap.  There's always June?

[JimR]

Sounds like JLuhnow is happy going into ST.   Harper ain't on the menu, it seems.

Of course he is saying that. He always does. That does not mean he is sitting back waiting to be called.

[MusicMan]

Sounds like JLuhnow is happy going into ST.   Harper ain't on the menu, it seems.

This is the GM version of “I’m in the best shape of my career”


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[JimR]

This is the GM version of “I’m in the best shape of my career”


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Yep. Harper probably will not sign with us, but I’ll bet we have an offer on the table.

[subnuclear]

He also said there are so many players on the market that he wouldn't be surprised if there was a signing.

[moriartp]

Machado signed with San Diego. 10 years, $300 million.

[das]

Machado signed with San Diego. 10 years, $300 million.

The Pads will end up regretting that signing.  Maybe not in the first few years but overall.

[doyce7]

The Pads will end up regretting that signing.  Maybe not in the first few years but overall.

I'm not so sure. Machado is only 26 and will be signed through 36. Most of the bad contracts that are always talked about are are bad because the player is 36-40 in age. Also Machado will probably opt out after 5 years to try and get another big contract, taking the Padres off the hook. I'd honestly be much more worried about signing Harper for that length because at least Manny hasn't had health/consistency issues.

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[JimR]

I'm not so sure. Machado is only 26 and will be signed through 36. Most of the bad contracts that are always talked about are are bad because the player is 36-40 in age. Also Machado will probably opt out after 5 years to try and get another big contract, taking the Padres off the hook. I'd honestly be much more worried about signing Harper for that length because at least Manny hasn't had health/consistency issues.

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Why not say to Harper: “Sure, Manny got ten years, but he has an opt out after five so he can pursue another FA deal. Here is a five year deal for you at $X. At its end, you are free to go after the next big deal too without having to fight over the opt out clause now.”

[moriartp]

Why not say to Harper: “Sure, Manny got ten years, but he has an opt out after five so he can pursue another FA deal. Here is a five year deal for you at $X. At its end, you are free to go after the next big deal too without having to fight over the opt out clause now.”

Why would Harper take a lower guarantee?

[JimR]

Why would Harper take a lower guarantee?

Did not say he would. If Manny intends to opt out, he only has s five year deal.

Depends on whether Harper wants a record contract more than he wants a ring. What did he turn down Washington or if the report today is true, why has he turned down multiple long term offers?

[juliogotay]

Did not say he would. If Manny intends to opt out, he only has s five year deal.

Depends on whether Harper wants a record contract more than he wants a ring. What did he turn down Washington or if the report today is true, why has he turned down multiple long term offers?

Record contracts last until the next FA signing period. Rings are forever. If I were a super-stud ballplayer (I'm not but I play one on tv)
I would make sure my agent has talked to that Houston team.

[doyce7]

Did not say he would. If Manny intends to opt out, he only has s five year deal.

Depends on whether Harper wants a record contract more than he wants a ring. What did he turn down Washington or if the report today is true, why has he turned down multiple long term offers?

Harper has a huge ego and has been told for years that he would break the bank and get a 400 million offer so now he's sulking and hoping a team gets stupid.

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[JimR]

Harper has a huge ego and has been told for years that he would break the bank and get a 400 million offer so now he's sulking and hoping a team gets stupid.

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Maybe so.

[moriartp]

Did not say he would. If Manny intends to opt out, he only has s five year deal.

Machado has a 10-year guarantee. He may intend to opt out after 5, but if his left leg falls off in 2023 he can still collect every penny of his $300 million. If Harper takes a 5-year deal, he doesn’t get that same protection. The annual salary would have to be sky high to get him to take a deal like that.

[JimR]

Machado has a 10-year guarantee. He may intend to opt out after 5, but if his left leg falls off in 2023 he can still collect every penny of his $300 million. If Harper takes a 5-year deal, he doesn’t get that same protection. The annual salary would have to be sky high to get him to take a deal like that.

Do you think I am fucking stupid or only ordinary stupid?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Machado has a 10-year guarantee. He may intend to opt out after 5, but if his left leg falls off in 2023 he can still collect every penny of his $300 million. If Harper takes a 5-year deal, he doesn’t get that same protection.

$150 million wont protect shit nowadays.

[moriartp]

GM: “Sure, Manny got ten years, but he has an opt out after five so he can pursue another FA deal. Here is a five year deal for you at $X. At its end, you are free to go after the next big deal too without having to fight over the opt out clause now.”

Harper: "Do you think I am fucking stupid or only ordinary stupid?"

[Waldo]

GM: “Sure, Manny got ten years, but he has an opt out after five so he can pursue another FA deal. Here is a five year deal for you at $X. At its end, you are free to go after the next big deal too without having to fight over the opt out clause now.”

Harper: "Do you think I am fucking stupid or only ordinary stupid?"

Nicely done.

[JimR]

Nicely done.

Ok. Good luck to Bryce on the 400.

SF still is pursuing a short term deal. Wonder how they are pitching it? If they could only read the TZ....

[Waldo]

Ok. Good luck to Bryce on the 400.

SF still is pursuing a short term deal. Wonder how they are pitching it? If they could only read the TZ....

Maybe not $400mm, but I think the point is that there is no incentive to signing a 5-year deal over a 10-year deal (regardless of the opt-out) unless the 10-year deal isn't going to happen.  The market has now shown that a 10-year deal is a still distinct possibility, so right now, pitching the 5-year deal to Harper as "it's just as good as the 10-year deal with an opt-out after year 5" is silly.  That can change if the deal never materializes, but right now Harper has every reason to stick to his guns.

[JimR]

Maybe not $400mm, but I think the point is that there is no incentive to signing a 5-year deal over a 10-year deal (regardless of the opt-out) unless the 10-year deal isn't going to happen.  The market has now shown that a 10-year deal is a still distinct possibility, so right now, pitching the 5-year deal to Harper as "it's just as good as the 10-year deal with an opt-out after year 5" is silly.  That can change if the deal never materializes, but right now Harper has every reason to stick to his guns.

Yeah, silly is something I usually am.

ETA: I may not be as smart as y’all, but even I know 5 guaranteed is not as good as 10 guaranteed. That is not the point or at least not my point.

You are the GM of a team with a legitimate shot at the WS, but with Harper, you might be a prohibitive favorite. You think enough of him to trade four good prospects for a half season rental. You want him on your team, but you will never do a ten year contract. How do you pitch your shorter term offer to attempt to get him to sign?

If your answer is it would be “silly” to try because a ten year deal is better, you are in the wrong fucking job. No one should have made you a GM.

[subnuclear]

Harper has a huge ego and has been told for years that he would break the bank and get a 400 million offer so now he's sulking and hoping a team gets stupid.

My complete guess is that he doesn't want to eat humble pie and play in DC, but no one has made him a better offer.

[gundy315]

How do you pitch your shorter term offer to attempt to get him to sign?

By jacking up the AAV to a mind-numbing figure?  (something like 6-7 years at $45M per)

[geezerdonk]

I am going to guess that Manny will wear out his welcome with fans, teammates and management long before the expiration of the contract.

[JimR]

By jacking up the AAV to a mind-numbing figure?  (something like 6-7 years at $45M per)

Luhnow won’t do that. Gotta extend our pitchers.

[juliogotay]

I am going to guess that Manny will wear out his welcome with fans, teammates and management long before the expiration of the contract.

Before the All-Star break.

[juliogotay]

Boras says the Harper deal is done.   He just won't say which team.

What was that, again Bryce?

[austro]

I am going to guess that Manny will wear out his welcome with fans, teammates and management long before the expiration of the contract.

On top of that, he strikes me as the kind of guy that will coast now that he's got the big deal. Maybe I'm wrong.

[gundy315]

Luhnow won’t do that. Gotta extend our pitchers.

Oh I thought you meant what it would take for some hypothetical team to get him on a shorter deal... Not the Astros, per se. 

[Sambito]

Luhnow won’t do that. Gotta extend our pitchers.

Jim, do you think that will happen? 

Verlander/Upton to Los Angeles seems like it has been mentioned in the rumor ether and Cole is a Boras guy (don't they usually test the market in most cases?) 

I am so on board with getting these guys signed but I am wondering if the location for JV and the money for Cole are going to work?  Thoughts

[toddthebod]

My guess is that Harper really doesn't want to play in Philly or he'd already be signed.  And that even though Harper once got a 300 million offer from the Nats, I'm skeptical that that deal is still on the table. 

If I were Harper, I'd want to play for a team like the Astros who are ready to win right now and for years in the future as well.  And maybe I'd take slightly less for that, because what's really the difference when you are talking about these monstrous contracts.  And maybe Houston has an advantage because there's no state tax in Texas and state income tax in California is monstrous.  Its very high in DC as well and lower in Pa.

But I'm not Harper.  And I don't have Boras as my agent.  And I haven't been told since forever that I was going to get a $400 million free agent contract.       

[jbm]

My guess is that Harper really doesn't want to play in Philly or he'd already be signed.  And that even though Harper once got a 300 million offer from the Nats, I'm skeptical that that deal is still on the table. 

If I were Harper, I'd want to play for a team like the Astros who are ready to win right now and for years in the future as well.  And maybe I'd take slightly less for that, because what's really the difference when you are talking about these monstrous contracts.  And maybe Houston has an advantage because there's no state tax in Texas and state income tax in California is monstrous.  Its very high in DC as well and lower in Pa.

But I'm not Harper.  And I don't have Boras as my agent.  And I haven't been told since forever that I was going to get a $400 million free agent contract.     

Yeah, my mind doesn't work like these guys either.  They act like they need a long-term contract for "security."  Give me one year at thirty million and I am more than "secure."  I'd take a short-term deal with a club that tries to compete and at the end of that deal, I'd do it again until I couldn't do it any more.  Never have to get stuck for long on a team that doesn't want to compete.

[Bench]

Yeah, my mind doesn't work like these guys either.  They act like they need a long-term contract for "security."  Give me one year at thirty million and I am more than "secure."  I'd take a short-term deal with a club that tries to compete and at the end of that deal, I'd do it again until I couldn't do it any more.  Never have to get stuck for long on a team that doesn't want to compete.

I've always wondered what a guy like Harper's carrying costs are. I assume he has a team of people that work for him individually, expenses, etc. in addition to lifestyle.

[Sambito]

I've always wondered what a guy like Harper's carrying costs are. I assume he has a team of people that work for him individually, expenses, etc. in addition to lifestyle.

Plus he seems to want to break the all-time record for signing the biggest contract -- something team Boras expects and foments.
There is some ego here, and the players want him to sign it as well --- inflating a long term deal makes it easier for future deals at smaller amounts. --- rising water and boats analogy

[BlownRanger]

Does anyone think there's any chance that Harper told Boras (and only Boras) a long time ago what franchise he intended to play for, and everything done since then has simply been to maximize the haul from said franchise?  I don't think that's likely, but I think it's a possibility.

[Sambito]

Does anyone think there's any chance that Harper told Boras (and only Boras) a long time ago what franchise he intended to play for, and everything done since then has simply been to maximize the haul from said franchise?  I don't think that's likely, but I think it's a possibility.

If so, that would suggest a west coast team to me.  Giants/Dodgers/Angels ------>

Signing Pollock I think eliminates the defeated WS 2017 & 2018 National League Chumps
Talk of a short term deal seems to implicate SF interest but they do not seem likely to break the record contract for BH
Angels, who knows.

Its the Phillies playing with themselves - and not sure BH wants to be there but he wants the $325M + contract.
Nats say they are out.

Yanks are a wild card - new murderers row

So, I am rooting for the Oakland A's at this point --- perfect pressure point (small market team wants to play with the big boys)

I am now officially of the opinion that the douche factor with BH may be too high for the Stros and that our best interests involve planning for the future again without massive debt bombs like this guy. 

Then again, the WS was a pinnacle moment in my 50 years on planet earth.

[HudsonHawk]

I've always wondered what a guy like Harper's carrying costs are. I assume he has a team of people that work for him individually, expenses, etc. in addition to lifestyle.

Well, he has an agent, who takes care of his financial things for him...does his taxes (at least offers that service), handles some non-baseball investments, helps line up endorsements, etc.  Agents typically take 4-6% on baseball salary and 10% on bonuses, endorsements an other unearned income managed by said agent.  So say at $30MM/year for playing baseball and lets say a shoe deal for $10MM a year, that's $2.8MM/year for agent to provide such services.  What the agent spends on the player is nowhere near that much, probably less than 10% of that $2.8MM.

[JimR]

Jim, do you think that will happen? 

Verlander/Upton to Los Angeles seems like it has been mentioned in the rumor ether and Cole is a Boras guy (don't they usually test the market in most cases?) 

I am so on board with getting these guys signed but I am wondering if the location for JV and the money for Cole are going to work?  Thoughts

Verlander unilaterally invited extension discussions a couple of weeks ago, and someone on here with knowledges posted he and Kate are really enjoying Houston.

I have no idea about Cole, but JV staying put could not hurt the chances with Cole.

Remember, the player is in charge, not the agent.

[JimR]

Report today is the Nats are not offering 10/300.

[MusicMan]

Report today is the Nats are not offering 10/300.

Any more. They pretty clearly did in October.


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[JimR]

Any more. They pretty clearly did in October.


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Of course. I am talking about now, not last fall.

[toddthebod]

I am now officially of the opinion that the douche factor with BH may be too high for the Stros and that our best interests involve planning for the future again without massive debt bombs like this guy. 

I wonder about this as well.  I also wonder about him and Bregman in the same clubhouse. 

[subnuclear]

I wonder about this as well.  I also wonder about him and Bregman in the same clubhouse.

Bregman might benefit from someone more intense in the clubhouse, imo. They'll be scoring 10 runs a game if he signs (which I'm skeptical of), so I imagine that will help.

[JimR]

I wonder about this as well.  I also wonder about him and Bregman in the same clubhouse.

Oh, fucking please. They traded for him last summer.

[hostros7]

Also, the Phils’ brass publicly stated that they couldn’t arrive at the valuation for Machado’s services that the Padres offered and expressed a commitment to staying disciplined on that front. Obviously, we don’t know the Phillies’ internal views about projected production from Manny and Harper—nor do we know how they weigh other factors like marketing and merchandise sales—but the advanced stat guys in the media suggested that comment could likely indicate that Philly won’t go above $300mm for Harper, or at least is posturing that they won’t. Based on WAR, Machado has been consistently better than Harper other than Harper’s one epic 10 WAR season, which said advanced stat guys say included a lot of good fortune.


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[Lefty]

Well, he has an agent, who takes care of his financial things for him...does his taxes (at least offers that service), handles some non-baseball investments, helps line up endorsements, etc.  Agents typically take 4-6% on baseball salary and 10% on bonuses, endorsements an other unearned income managed by said agent.  So say at $30MM/year for playing baseball and lets say a shoe deal for $10MM a year, that's $2.8MM/year for agent to provide such services.  What the agent spends on the player is nowhere near that much, probably less than 10% of that $2.8MM.

Add in another 500K? for trainers/nutritionists/chefs/etc

Does he also have a posse of friends that he employs for various whatevers?

[subnuclear]

Add in another 500K? for trainers/nutritionists/chefs/etc

Does he also have a posse of friends that he employs for various whatevers?

Does being a Mormon count?

[HudsonHawk]

Add in another 500K? for trainers/nutritionists/chefs/etc

I'm sure he has all of that, but the agent doesn't pay for them.  They are, however, tax deductible. 

Does he also have a posse of friends that he employs for various whatevers?

Probably not.  He's not a rapper.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

According to MLB.com, the Dodgers have leapt back into the field. (https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/02/bryce-harper-rumors-dodgers-meeting.html)

Harper is such a hype machine. I guess I won't be shocked if he ends up netting more than Machado, but it seems indisputable that pound for pound Machado has outclassed him in virtually every respect (except perhaps in "class", which might be a close call). He's still reaping the benefits of the SI cover at age 15.   

[jaklewein]

According to MLB.com, the Dodgers have leapt back into the field. (https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/02/bryce-harper-rumors-dodgers-meeting.html)

Harper is such a hype machine. I guess I won't be shocked if he ends up netting more than Machado, but it seems indisputable that pound for pound Machado has outclassed him in virtually every respect (except perhaps in "class", which might be a close call). He's still reaping the benefits of the SI cover at age 15.

Well, I think there is also factors marketing where Bryce will easily edge out Manny.  Jersey sales, billboards, ticket sales (not that this is as big in LA) both at public and corporate levels.  Maybe they can even negotiate a larger TV deal when if the current runs out (I'm not Nate so don't have this information at my fingertips).  Btw, Nate, you are the man!

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Well, I think there is also factors marketing where Bryce will easily edge out Manny.  Jersey sales, billboards, ticket sales (not that this is as big in LA) both at public and corporate levels.  Maybe they can even negotiate a larger TV deal when if the current runs out (I'm not Nate so don't have this information at my fingertips).  Btw, Nate, you are the man!

Good points, all. I was looking up some Nats stuff this morning for fantasy purposes and came across a WaPo columnist who seemed downright relieved to be done with him. To paraphrase: if at least once every ten games your most visible player overthrows the cutoff man by 15-feet, throws to the wrong cutoff man, fails to run out a ground ball, or gets thrown out running the bases foolishly, it's hard to ask the rest of your team for maximal effort. Now, a lot of that may just be grouchy old man-ism, but where there's smoke... Anyhow, Machado hates losing so much he regularly brutalizes his opponents.

[JimR]

Good points, all. I was looking up some Nats stuff this morning for fantasy purposes and came across a WaPo columnist who seemed downright relieved to be done with him. To paraphrase: if at least once every ten games your most visible player overthrows the cutoff man by 15-feet, throws to the wrong cutoff man, fails to run out a ground ball, or gets thrown out running the bases foolishly, it's hard to ask the rest of your team for maximal effort. Now, a lot of that may just be grouchy old man-ism, but where there's smoke... Anyhow, Machado hates losing so much he regularly brutalizes his opponents.

Amazing to me Machado now is the good guy between the two. I do not think so. Machado was a cancer on the Dodgers. Luhnow traded for Harper. That is plenty good enough for me.

If Harper decides to take a shorter term deal to go for a ring, I think he’ll be an Astro.

[MusicMan]

Harper sending the Rockies a big thank you note as they just finalized an 8 year, $255M extension with Nolan Arenado, including a 3-year opt out and full no trade.


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[Noe]

If Harper decides to take a shorter term deal to go for a ring, I think he’ll be an Astro.

Heard last night that the LA Dodgers had a very productive meeting with Harper. According to the report I heard, Manager Roberts said the meeting was very positive and laid out the parameters of what a short-term deal should look like according to Boras/Harper.

The pundits last night went on to say that if Harper wanted to be a Phillie, he'd already sign. They speculated that with the Dodgers jumping back in other teams will be contacted by Boras if they want to see about a short-term deal as well, including the Yankees and White Sox. No mention of other teams since they were just speculating.

[MusicMan]

By the way, with Aaron Hicks and Arenado signing extensions, things would look favorable for JV and Cole extensions.


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[jaklewein]

By the way, with Aaron Hicks and Arenado signing extensions, things would look favorable for JV and Cole extensions.


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Cole and maybe George.  JV has made his money.  Yes he has expressed an interest in signing an extension but the other players that are signing are players that have only hit a year, maybe two of real money and they are trying to secure a big payday sooner rather than later.  Was thinking about George this morning after hearing of the Hicks deal.  Feel like Hicks is a damn good comp.

[doyce7]

Cole and maybe George.  JV has made his money.  Yes he has expressed an interest in signing an extension but the other players that are signing are players that have only hit a year, maybe two of real money and they are trying to secure a big payday sooner rather than later.  Was thinking about George this morning after hearing of the Hicks deal.  Feel like Hicks is a damn good comp.

The difference between George and Hicks is that George has been relatively healthy the last 3 years. Hicks has never played in 140 games, Springer has played 140 in the last 2 years and 162 in 2016. George would never accept the Hicks deal.

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[jaklewein]

The difference between George and Hicks is that George has been relatively healthy the last 3 years. Hicks has never played in 140 games, Springer has played 140 in the last 2 years and 162 in 2016. George would never accept the Hicks deal.

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Agreed, but it is a good point of reference to measure from in my estimation.  Would the Astros consider signing George through his age 35-36 season?  I'm betting not, but might would sign on through his 34 season.  Dollars?  Not sure either but a good measuring stick.

[JimR]

Heard last night that the LA Dodgers had a very productive meeting with Harper. According to the report I heard, Manager Roberts said the meeting was very positive and laid out the parameters of what a short-term deal should look like according to Boras/Harper.

The pundits last night went on to say that if Harper wanted to be a Phillie, he'd already sign. They speculated that with the Dodgers jumping back in other teams will be contacted by Boras if they want to see about a short-term deal as well, including the Yankees and White Sox. No mention of other teams since they were just speculating.

LAD now the favorite for Harper according to those who are paid to demonstrate they know nothing.

[MusicMan]

LAD now the favorite for Harper according to those who are paid to demonstrate they know nothing.

I know nothing. Can I please get paid for it?


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[JimR]

I know nothing. Can I please get paid for it?


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Probably. Get your resume out there.

[Jacksonian]

I know nothing. Can I please get paid for it?


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Duh

[Lefty]

Arenado is a much, much better player than Harper. though Team Harper would never admit it.

[BUWebguy]

Duh

"Hail to the chief, he's the one we all say 'hail' to..."

[Lefty]

"Hail to the chief, he's the one we all say 'hail' to..."

Re-watched Dave a couple of weeks ago, still great.

[Bench]

Re-watched Dave a couple of weeks ago, still great.

The Ringer's oral history of the movie is fun.

[Waldo]

Re-watched Dave a couple of weeks ago, still great.

"He's got the power, that's why he's in the shower"

[MusicMan]

"He's got the power, that's why he's in the shower"

I was working at AMC when Dave came out. I loved every minute of that movie.


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[moriartp]

Finally signed. Harper to Philly. $330 million over 13 years. No opt-outs. Sets an overall record, but nowhere near the AAV record.

[Bench]

$330 million over 13 years. No opt-outs.

I hope we hear the story about how they arrived there.

[Noe]

Finally signed. Harper to Philly. $330 million over 13 years. No opt-outs. Sets an overall record, but nowhere near the AAV record.

No opt-outs on a Scott Boras negotiated contract? When does the Apocalypse begin?

[Fredia]

at least he is still in the nl

[moriartp]

I think a lot of the reaction will be "lol they'll be paying a 39-year-old Harper $25 million," but the length of the contract benefits the Phillies by keeping their annual budget (and, importantly, their luxury tax figure) lower. And like Noe says, the lack of opt-outs also favors the team.

So Harper gets his record guarantee, but in a generally team-friendly way.


ETA: reports also saying Harper gets a full no-trade clause. Not surprising I suppose, but makes the deal a little less team-friendly.

[Tom Servo]

I can't wait to see what Mike Trout eventually gets. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

The clock is now on Dallas Keuchel.

[MusicMan]

I can't wait to see what Mike Trout eventually gets.

All of it.


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[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

All of it.


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I think Arte will only go 49% ownership.

[chuck]

Am I wrong to conclude that the only relevant element to Harper was the total number of the contract, not the team, not the city, not the AAV, just the total number? If the Rays had offered him $331 would he have happily gone there instead?

[geezerdonk]

Tampa Bay: We'll give you $331MM provided that your mother is drawn and quartered at home plate pre-game on opening day.

Bryce: Where do I sign?

[TerryPuhl21]

I think a lot of the reaction will be "lol they'll be paying a 39-year-old Harper $25 million," but the length of the contract benefits the Phillies by keeping their annual budget (and, importantly, their luxury tax figure) lower. And like Noe says, the lack of opt-outs also favors the team.

So Harper gets his record guarantee, but in a generally team-friendly way.


ETA: reports also saying Harper gets a full no-trade clause. Not surprising I suppose, but makes the deal a little less team-friendly.

Reports also say the contract is frontloaded. I have not seen how frontloaded it is, but if true then that means they potentially won’t be paying him near as much on the backend after age 35. This seems like a smart deal by the Phillies. If they heavily front loaded in the first two years, it could help clear some room to also sign Trout.


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[Fredia]

who ever and where ever on DK do they get a season ready to go pitcher?

[Nate Colbert]

The post-mortem view...

Out or Likely Out                In                         Wild Card                  Out there, Way Out there

                                               Phillies                                                           Cardinals
                                               Dodgers                                                              Astros 
                                                 Giants                                                               Angels
                                                                                                                         Nationals
                                                                                                                          White Sox
                                                                                                                              Cubs
                                                                                                                           Yankees
                                                                                                                            Atlanta

[JimR]

Fucking crazy. Thank you, Jeff Luhnow.

[austro]

I'm sure that Philly Fan will cut him quite a bit of slack when he turns out not to be Babe Ruth reincarnated.

[JimR]

I'm sure that Philly Fan will cut him quite a bit of slack when he turns out not to be Babe Ruth reincarnated.

No doubt. They are famous for their tolerance.

[Lefty]

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Glad he didn't go to the Dojers or some other contender.

[VirtualBob]

No doubt. They are famous for their tolerance.

They have decades of unused tolerance saved up for just this purpose.

[HudsonHawk]

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Glad he didn't go to the Dojers or some other contender.

The Phillies also added J. T. Realmuto, Jean Segura and Andrew McCutchen.  Last year they were 80-82 in a division where 90 wins ran away with it.  They were already contenders.  Then they added Harper.

[moriartp]

The Phillies also added J. T. Realmuto, Jean Segura and Andrew McCutchen.  Last year they were 80-82 in a division where 90 wins ran away with it.  They were already contenders.  Then they added Harper.

Plus David Robertson, which I'd completely forgotten. Incredible offseason.

[Noe]

The NL East this offseason just became as competitive a division like the AL East. Where I would start to gauge the possible advantage one team might have over the others is to look at the starting rotation:

Washington: Scherzer, Strasburg, Corbin, Sanchez and maybe Ross or Fedee
Atlanta: Foltynewicz, Newcomb, Gausman, Toussaint, and Teheran
Philadelphia: Nola, Eickhoff, Velazquez, Pivetta, and Eflin
New York: deGrom, Syndergaard, Wheeler, Matz, and Vargas
Miami: Who cares?

Next would be an evaluation of defense and the offense. So just on starting pitching alone, I'd give the edge to the Nationals to stay competitive and quite possibly win the NL East (for now). What the NL East teams have done this offseason, however, is put the NL Central and West on notice that the wild-card contenders might all come from the NL East this season. It's not a far-fetched idea at this point. But like the Houston Astros faced in 2018 with an improved Oakland A's team, a good Seattle Mariners team and a somewhat enigmatic but still good Anaheim Angels team, having a tough division to play in means you're just going to have to find your wins early and often within the division and then look elsewhere. Houston won 103 games in 2018 primarily on having a record-setting starting five rotation. The offense was good but spotty. The defense was okay, but not spectacular. But the starting rotation was out of this world.

By adding Corbin and Sanchez this offseason, I'm thinking the Nationals made themselves a team to be reckoned with. IMHO of course.

[Bench]

The NL East this offseason just became as competitive a division like the AL East. Where I would start to gauge the possible advantage one team might have over the others is to look at the starting rotation:

Washington: Scherzer, Strasburg, Corbin, Sanchez and maybe Ross or Fedee
Atlanta: Foltynewicz, Newcomb, Gausman, Toussaint, and Teheran
Philadelphia: Nola, Eickhoff, Velazquez, Pivetta, and Eflin
New York: deGrom, Syndergaard, Wheeler, Matz, and Vargas
Miami: Who cares?

Next would be an evaluation of defense and the offense. So just on starting pitching alone, I'd give the edge to the Nationals to stay competitive and quite possibly win the NL East (for now). What the NL East teams have done this offseason, however, is put the NL Central and West on notice that the wild-card contenders might all come from the NL East this season. It's not a far-fetched idea at this point. But like the Houston Astros faced in 2018 with an improved Oakland A's team, a good Seattle Mariners team and a somewhat enigmatic but still good Anaheim Angels team, having a tough division to play in means you're just going to have to find your wins early and often within the division and then look elsewhere. Houston won 103 games in 2018 primarily on having a record-setting starting five rotation. The offense was good but spotty. The defense was okay, but not spectacular. But the starting rotation was out of this world.

By adding Corbin and Sanchez this offseason, I'm thinking the Nationals made themselves a team to be reckoned with. IMHO of course.

Isn't Arrieta on the Phillies? They might still sign Keuchel too.

[Noe]

Isn't Arrieta on the Phillies? They might still sign Keuchel too.

Oops, yes, correct. Jake is with the Phillies. If the Phillies do land Dallas, then they can go head to head with the Nationals. The Nats, however, go four deep in quality starters. Some may discount Sanchez as not as quality, but I see him as a Charlie Morton type of #4. The Phillies would go three deep with Dallas Keuchel. The Mets go two deep with deGrom and Syndergaard. The Braves, arguably one deep with Folty.

So yes, the Phillies need at least one more quality starter or spend for one at the trading deadline if the Nationals are within reach or if they want to keep the Nationals at bay if they're ahead of them.

[TerryPuhl21]

Oops, yes, correct. Jake is with the Phillies. If the Phillies do land Dallas, then they can go head to head with the Nationals. The Nats, however, go four deep in quality starters. Some may discount Sanchez as not as quality, but I see him as a Charlie Morton type of #4. The Phillies would go three deep with Dallas Keuchel. The Mets go two deep with deGrom and Syndergaard. The Braves, arguably one deep with Folty.

So yes, the Phillies need at least one more quality starter or spend for one at the trading deadline if the Nationals are within reach or if they want to keep the Nationals at bay if they're ahead of them.

Other than perhaps the Twins or the Dodgers, the Braves really need Keuchel. Don’t be surprised if he ends up there.


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[Noe]

Other than perhaps the Twins or the Dodgers, the Braves really need Keuchel. Don’t be surprised if he ends up there.


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Agreed.

[Sambito]

No doubt. They are famous for their tolerance.

I am hoping for a little 1980 revenge in the WS.  Really still pissed off with the Phillies 5 run 8th inning in game 5. 

Might have even cried...  Hunt for Dead Red October (2 pings Vasilli, 2 pings)

[Mr. Happy]

I am hoping for a little 1980 revenge in the WS.  Really still pissed off with the Phillies 5 run 8th inning in game 5. 

Might have even cried...  Hunt for Dead Red October (2 pings Vasilli, 2 pings)

It's way too fucking early to bring up 1980. Remember it as if it was yesterday. I took so much shit that year because I started bragging early in that game, and my friends who were Phightins fans gave me unmitigated shit for days.

[juliogotay]

It's way too fucking early to bring up 1980. Remember it as if it was yesterday. I took so much shit that year because I started bragging early in that game, and my friends who were Phightins fans gave me unmitigated shit for days.

'80 was so tough. I imagine we all believe a healthy J.R. would have turned the table. But I also didn't know if that team would ever be back in that position again. I felt very sad for a long time.

[JimR]

'80 was so tough. I imagine we all believe a healthy J.R. would have turned the table. But I also didn't know if that team would ever be back in that position again. I felt very sad for a long time.

Would have won if fucking Ryan hadnot deflecteda certain DP grounder away from Reynolds.

[jbm]

Fuck Harper. His stupid news conference is cutting into the Astros game. Horseshit

[Noe]

Would have won if fucking Ryan hadnot deflecteda certain DP grounder away from Reynolds.

Took me a very long time to forgive Greg Gross for providing the bunt single that started the late rally for the Phillies in that game. I was a Greg Gross fan when he was previously with the Astros.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Fuck Harper. His stupid news conference is cutting into the Astros game. Horseshit

Fuck that guy.  Also fuck Ron Darling as a Mets commentator.

[mrpink]

Also fuck Ron Darling as a Mets commentator.

X 10,000

[Astros Fan in Big D]

Fuck that guy.  Also fuck Ron Darling as a Mets commentator.

[moriartp]

And Harper’s record is demolished. The Angels are extending Trout’s contract for 12 years, $430 million.

Edit: this actually adds ten years, as it replaces the two years remaining on his current deal.

[mrpink]

And Harper’s record is demolished. The Angels are extending Trout’s contract for 12 years, $430 million.

Edit: this actually adds ten years, as it replaces the two years remaining on his current deal.

Wow.  Good for both of them. 

[Reuben]

And Harper’s record is demolished. The Angels are extending Trout’s contract for 12 years, $430 million.

Edit: this actually adds ten years, as it replaces the two years remaining on his current deal.

The Angels would be scary this year and upcoming years if they
A) finally dumped the Albertross
B) Got serious about bringing in good players to surround Trout
C) Reversed their awful luck with injuries

[Astros Fan in Big D]

So for now the best player has the biggest contract.

[JimR]

Harper will want to renegotiate his deal.

[chuck]

I have never understood the Harper mania. He had one insane year, a couple of pretty good years, and most recently a couple of years where he gave his team a WAR that Jake Marisnick could give you. Sure, he hits 20-30 home runs. Great. But the idea that what he gets paid and what Mike Trout, who has a legitimate claim on best player in the game, gets paid are talked about at the same time is crazy to me.

The belief that Harper is some sort of franchise cornerstone is just bizarre. I'd rather have Springer than Harper - no homer - and it's really not all that close.

I wonder what sort of contract George will end up with. And with whom.

[juliogotay]

I have never understood the Harper mania. He had one insane year, a couple of pretty good years, and most recently a couple of years where he gave his team a WAR that Jake Marisnick could give you. Sure, he hits 20-30 home runs. Great. But the idea that what he gets paid and what Mike Trout, who has a legitimate claim on best player in the game, gets paid are talked about at the same time is crazy to me.

The belief that Harper is some sort of franchise cornerstone is just bizarre. I'd rather have Springer than Harper - no homer - and it's really not all that close.

I wonder what sort of contract George will end up with. And with whom.

Springer is a guy whose value is not all what happens on the field. Great guy in the house. You don't get paid for that though.

[jbm]

I have never understood the Harper mania. He had one insane year, a couple of pretty good years, and most recently a couple of years where he gave his team a WAR that Jake Marisnick could give you. Sure, he hits 20-30 home runs. Great. But the idea that what he gets paid and what Mike Trout, who has a legitimate claim on best player in the game, gets paid are talked about at the same time is crazy to me.

The belief that Harper is some sort of franchise cornerstone is just bizarre. I'd rather have Springer than Harper - no homer - and it's really not all that close.

In my lifetime, there might be a more over-rated player, but I can't recall who that might be.

[subnuclear]

I think Harper would do better with a different coaching and front office than he received in Washington. He was pretty fun in 2015.