Author Topic: Starting Pitching (Read 5246 times)

Arky Vaughan · « **on:** April 22, 2018, 08:02:22 pm »

Game Scores since McCullers imploded on April 11.

Cole 76
Morton 63
Verlander 86
Keuchel 67
McCullers 81
Cole 68
Morton 79
Verlander 70
Keuchel 64
McCullers 54

Not a bad run.

NeilT · « **Reply #1 on:** April 22, 2018, 08:05:18 pm »

I’m not convinced that allowing 64 runs against you in a single game is a good thing. that’s how it works, right?

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #2 on:** April 22, 2018, 08:05:50 pm »

That's exactly how it works.

JimR · « **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2018, 07:13:38 am »

Ok, I give up. WTF is (are?) “Game Scores?”

Duman · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2018, 07:20:12 am »

Quote from: JimR on April 23, 2018, 07:13:38 am

Ok, I give up. WTF is (are?) “Game Scores?”

An attempt to objectively evaluate a pitchers performance in a game.

From Wiki:

Game Score is a metric devised by Bill James to determine the strength of a pitcher in any particular baseball game. To determine a starting pitcher's game score:

Start with 50 points.
Add one point for each out recorded, so three points for every complete inning pitched.
Add two points for each inning completed after the fourth.
Add one point for each strikeout.
Subtract two points for each hit allowed.
Subtract four points for each earned run allowed.
Subtract two points for each unearned run allowed.
Subtract one point for each walk.

There is a newer version that I think fangraphs uses that treats all runs the same and punishes you if you give up a HR. I am not sure which model he used for these scores.

das · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2018, 07:35:46 am »

I don’t know anything about the metric but it appears to penalize a good overall result that has elevated sub components like McCullers 8 hits yesterday. So, it appears to ignore the “bend but don’t break” days that good pitchers have on the days they are not working with their best stuff.

JimR · « **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2018, 07:48:31 am »

Bench · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2018, 03:50:33 pm »

Isn't Kerry Wood's 20K 1 hitter the highest "game score" ever?

Duman · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2018, 05:46:28 pm »

Quote from: Bench on April 23, 2018, 03:50:33 pm

Isn't Kerry Wood's 20K 1 hitter the highest "game score" ever?

Yep - 105 - highest for a 9 inning game. There are some of those crazy 13 inning no hitters that score higher but that his the high for 9.

Also a score of 50 is considered the league average.

Astros Fan in Big D · « **Reply #9 on:** April 24, 2018, 07:32:28 am »

Cole was great again last night. Rondon was warming up in the 6th; I fully expected him to pitch the 7th especially after the Angels extended the inning and scored.

But no, Cole came in and cruised through the 7th.

Waldo · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2018, 09:01:49 am »

Quote from: Astros Fan in Big D on April 24, 2018, 07:32:28 am

Cole was great again last night. Rondon was warming up in the 6th; I fully expected him to pitch the 7th especially after the Angels extended the inning and scored.

But no, Cole came in and cruised through the 7th.

Cole allowed the most runs by any starter in a week. He sucks.

TerryPuhl21 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 24, 2018, 10:59:04 am »

Quote from: Astros Fan in Big D on April 24, 2018, 07:32:28 am

Cole was great again last night. Rondon was warming up in the 6th; I fully expected him to pitch the 7th especially after the Angels extended the inning and scored.

But no, Cole came in and cruised through the 7th.

Such a shame to waste another good pitching performance because we can’t hit. Morton better toss a no-no tonight if he wants any chance of a win. The way most of our hitters look at gut pitches and then chase out of the zone, Ohtani’s nickname after he goes 8 and k’s 15 tonight will be K-tani!

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jbm · « **Reply #12 on:** April 24, 2018, 11:02:01 am »

Damn, the last roadtrip is just forgotten, and the batters are now just a bunch of stiffs?

Reuben · « **Reply #13 on:** April 24, 2018, 12:59:32 pm »

Quote from: Duman on April 23, 2018, 05:46:28 pm

Yep - 105 - highest for a 9 inning game. There are some of those crazy 13 inning no hitters that score higher but that his the high for 9.

Also a score of 50 is considered the league average.

Does any version of Game Score take into account strength of opponent? Wood doing that against the 1998 Astros was a hell of a lot more impressive than if it had been the 1998 Devil Rays, for example. No offense to Paul Sorrento.

juliogotay · « **Reply #14 on:** April 24, 2018, 01:06:25 pm »

Quote from: jbm on April 24, 2018, 11:02:01 am

Damn, the last roadtrip is just forgotten, and the batters are now just a bunch of stiffs?

that's how we roll.

NeilT · « **Reply #15 on:** April 24, 2018, 02:04:25 pm »

Quote from: juliogotay on April 24, 2018, 01:06:25 pm

that's how we roll.

I'm just worried about the rotation after last night's 5th and 6th.

TerryPuhl21 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 24, 2018, 02:54:43 pm »

Quote from: jbm on April 24, 2018, 11:02:01 am

Damn, the last roadtrip is just forgotten, and the batters are now just a bunch of stiffs?

The comment was a little bit tongue in cheek......though I am seriously worried about Gattis.

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JimR · « **Reply #17 on:** April 24, 2018, 06:45:47 pm »

Quote from: jbm on April 24, 2018, 11:02:01 am

Damn, the last roadtrip is just forgotten, and the batters are now just a bunch of stiffs?

7-8-9 has been a black hole all year.

juliogotay · « **Reply #18 on:** April 30, 2018, 10:08:53 am »

Interesting McCullers stat:
If you take out that rough 4th inning against the Twins in the freezing cold, here's his season line: 33.1IP, 24H/6ER, 43K:9BB - 1.62 ERA / 0.99 WHIP.

Duman · « **Reply #19 on:** May 05, 2018, 05:05:26 am »

Quote from: Duman on April 23, 2018, 05:46:28 pm

Yep - 105 - highest for a 9 inning game. There are some of those crazy 13 inning no hitters that score higher but that his the high for 9.

Also a score of 50 is considered the league average.

Cole’s performance last night earned a 100 in the original game score and a 106 in the game score 2.0 version. Woods game against the Astros gets a 112 in 2.0.

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Astros Fan in Big D · « **Reply #20 on:** May 05, 2018, 07:30:56 am »

Quote from: Duman on May 05, 2018, 05:05:26 am

Cole’s performance last night earned a 100 in the original game score and a 106 in the game score 2.0 version. Woods game against the Astros gets a 112 in 2.0.

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It also happened on the anniversary of the Wood game.

JimR · « **Reply #21 on:** May 05, 2018, 11:34:04 am »

Please, please, please add a professional hitter to this team.

Fredia · « **Reply #22 on:** May 05, 2018, 11:55:37 am »

nothing to do but agree anyone in mind?

austro · « **Reply #23 on:** May 05, 2018, 03:59:35 pm »

Quote from: JimR on May 05, 2018, 11:34:04 am

Please, please, please add a professional hitter to this team.

I'm wondering what it takes to pry Moustakis from the Royals.

hostros7 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 06, 2018, 01:17:53 pm »

Quote from: austro on May 05, 2018, 03:59:35 pm

I'm wondering what it takes to pry Moustakis from the Royals.

I would have a strong preference for a RH batting DH. Hinch juggles the lineup well, but we already have Reddick, McCann, and Marwin (better from the left side) in the middle to bottom of the order. If we add another LH bat at DH, that part of the order really becomes slanted to that side, which makes the team particularly vulnerable to lefty relief pitching changes. Furthermore, Hinch has carried a thin bench so that issue would hard to work around. Would you really want Marisnick or Stassi pinch hitting in a key moment down the stretch or in the playoffs?

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Bench · « **Reply #25 on:** May 07, 2018, 11:51:04 am »

Quote from: Duman on May 05, 2018, 05:05:26 am

Cole’s performance last night earned a 100 in the original game score and a 106 in the game score 2.0 version. Woods game against the Astros gets a 112 in 2.0.

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The 8th best 9 inning game score ever.

Another interesting note on that list is that the Astros were the opponent for 2 of the top 4.

hostros7 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 07, 2018, 12:22:43 pm »

Quote from: Bench on May 07, 2018, 11:51:04 am

The 8th best 9 inning game score ever.

Another interesting note on that list is that the Astros were the opponent for 2 of the top 4.

I had blocked out the Cain game, which was a notable low amid many notable lows.

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das · « **Reply #27 on:** May 07, 2018, 03:57:22 pm »

Quote from: hostros7 on May 07, 2018, 12:22:43 pm

I had blocked out the Cain game, which was a notable low amid many notable lows.

Which begs the question: I wonder if opposition team strength is a part of the equation. Getting a 101 score, which is amazing, versus a 51 game winning ‘13 Astros AAA squad is very different than Wood’s 105 against the ‘98 Astros 102 win offensive juggernaut.

Reuben · « **Reply #28 on:** May 07, 2018, 06:04:39 pm »

Quote from: das on May 07, 2018, 03:57:22 pm

Which begs the question: I wonder if opposition team strength is a part of the equation. Getting a 101 score, which is amazing, versus a 51 game winning ‘13 Astros AAA squad is very different than Wood’s 105 against the ‘98 Astros 102 win offensive juggernaut.

That is an excellent question.

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #29 on:** May 08, 2018, 09:50:43 am »

Opposition strength isn't considered. It's just a quick and dirty method of measuring the performance using the numbers that appear in the box score:

Start with 50 points.
Add one point for each out recorded, so three points for every complete inning pitched.
Add two points for each inning completed after the fourth.
Add one point for each strikeout.
Subtract two points for each hit allowed.
Subtract four points for each earned run allowed.
Subtract two points for each unearned run allowed.
Subtract one point for each walk.

Arky Vaughan · « **Reply #30 on:** May 08, 2018, 09:55:07 am »

It also stands to reason that given how seldom anybody has struck out 20, or even 19 or 18, batters in a game, getting into opponent strength is a bit quibbling. Regardless of whether it's the '98 Astros or '98 Devil Rays, it's an exceedingly rare and historic feat. Much rarer than a no-hitter, more on the order of a perfect game.