Author Topic: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017  (Read 19672 times)

David in Jackson

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 2465
    • View Profile
Re: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017
« Reply #640 on: October 28, 2017, 12:30:51 pm »
I don’t excuse what Yuli did but I think everyone should remember he lived the 32 of his 33 years in an isolated communist island where racial attitudes are not the same as ours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"I literally love Justin Verlander." -- Jose Altuve

Bench

  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 16472
    • View Profile
Re: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017
« Reply #641 on: October 28, 2017, 12:58:48 pm »
I don’t excuse what Yuli did but I think everyone should remember he lived the 32 of his 33 years in an isolated communist island where racial attitudes are not the same as ours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is a lot of cultural context that has to be kept in mind. 
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

chuck

  • Contributor
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 12492
    • View Profile
Re: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017
« Reply #642 on: October 28, 2017, 01:26:13 pm »
I don’t excuse what Yuli did but I think everyone should remember he lived the 32 of his 33 years in an isolated communist island where racial attitudes are not the same as ours.

This piece in the LA Times brings up something important:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodgers-hernandez-20171027-story.html

Really, it’s the context. This might be a hard concept to grasp for anyone who is monocultural or monolingual, but believe me when I tell you racial terms aren’t said with the same level of maliciousness in Spanish as they are in English. Even racist-looking gestures, like the one Gurriel made, aren’t made with the same level of vitriol. Not close.

This is consistent with my experience in Latin America. I can't tell you there's no racism, but I can tell you there is strikingly less racism than I observe in the US, and I can tell you that because there is less racism people are significantly less sensitive to what we might be sensitive to.

That is not to excuse Yuli or to say he should not be punished in some way. The league has to set standards and as long as he's not suspended for WS games I don't really care how they address it. But it's important to keep in mind that the Latin guys come from a totally different context.
Y todo lo que sube baja
pregúntale a Pedro Navaja

Astros Fan in Big D

  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 10316
    • View Profile
Re: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017
« Reply #643 on: October 28, 2017, 02:23:41 pm »
All good points raised above.

We probably all have seen older people in our lives whom we respect and love say some terribly racist things.  I certainly have.   Yet I knew these people to be kind,  gentle,  and giving also. 

We've also seen people say terribly racist things who are unkind,  unpleasant,  and unredeemable say similar things.

The words should be put into context of the person's character; the character is not necessarily defined by the words.

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29329
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017
« Reply #644 on: October 28, 2017, 03:00:56 pm »
Great post, chuck
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

Col. Sphinx Drummond

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 16754
  • art is a bulwark against the irrationality of man
    • View Profile
Re: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017
« Reply #645 on: October 28, 2017, 03:09:38 pm »
I got something I need to get off my chest. In the past, when we were children, I was guilty of using homophobic and racist words against my older brother. But, he started it. Anyway, I'm sorry.
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
Truth isn't easy, the easy part's shit

Sambito Redux

  • Veteran Role Player
  • Posts: 271
    • View Profile
Re: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017
« Reply #646 on: October 28, 2017, 03:12:15 pm »
New here in recent years --- after a long hiatus from the old whoopass blog site.  Previous handle was Sambito.

My experience of racism is that it exists at every level of society from internal thoughts of individuals to the systemic nature of institutions and their biases.  Research actually confirms this, but this is such a charged series of issues (intertwined with family, culture, oppression, gender etc.) that people tend to solidify their opinions around racism early and tend to get more entrenched -- often with confirmation bias --- looking for those parts of lived experience which confirms their biases.

Anyhow, I think its better to distinguish between two of the more pernicious forms of racism (Overt/externalized and Institutional/internalized) versus some of the more innocuous "gotcha" types of humiliation for all involved --

Externalized or Overt Racism (where the idea is the person feels confident enough in the dominant culture to use race/appearance as a cudgel to abuse, shame or establish an unchallenged belief) is what 90% of us think about when we think of racism -- Often, this is a binary or black and white, or us versus them kind of ignorant comparison.

What is more relevant and pertinent is, however, institutional racism where public policies often reflect the dominant culture and disregard the implications of historically disadvantaged populations.  The minimization that racism no longer exists in any culture is a part of this --- "there is nothing here to see" kind of institutional forgetting so necessary to maintain dominant supremacy.

In other words, when racism is in your face or completely ignored as not occurring are most damaging forms. 

When we think of Gurriel, I think he was trying to be funny with his friends - at the expense of Yu.  No excuse, but hardly putting up a billboard and trying to send a message of hate.   And, I have not yet read his respond in entirety, but he sounded contrite and does not appear to be minimizing it as not happening. 

The sad truth is all of us by virtue of living in this society have the capacity to be racist.  Owning our mistakes and trying actively to prevent them from harming people is what we should be focused upon.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 03:17:13 pm by Sambito Redux »
"Look at the size of that boy's head! It's like an orange on toothpick, a virtual planetoid.  Head move! 

Aye, that was offsides, he'll be crying himself to sleep tonight on his big pilla"

Scottish Father (So I Married An Axe Murderer)

Aussie Astro

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 2859
    • View Profile
Re: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017
« Reply #647 on: October 28, 2017, 07:19:43 pm »
Disagree. He had just hit a big home run. The “heat of competition” does not stop at the dugout steps, and he was talking to his teammates, not taunting Darvish. If you think that makes him a dick, you have never done anything stupid you regret. I have.
Dead right, we have all done things we regret.  Some folks learn from it, some don't... I hope Yuli does.
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may make you think you are whispering when you are not.

juliogotay

  • Pope
  • Posts: 8727
    • View Profile
Re: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017
« Reply #648 on: October 29, 2017, 04:39:54 pm »
Disagree. He had just hit a big home run. The “heat of competition” does not stop at the dugout steps, and he was talking to his teammates, not taunting Darvish. If you think that makes him a dick, you have never done anything stupid you regret. I have.
This is a point many won't get that haven't spent alot of time in competitive athletics. Particularly team sports.

NeilT

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 11668
    • View Profile
Re: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017
« Reply #649 on: October 30, 2017, 09:37:21 am »
I don’t excuse what Yuli did but I think everyone should remember he lived the 32 of his 33 years in an isolated communist island where racial attitudes are not the same as ours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wait, he's from Austin?
"I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing... as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”  Charles Grassley

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29329
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: World Series Game 3 - Dojers @ Astros- Oct. 27. 2017
« Reply #650 on: October 30, 2017, 04:41:59 pm »
Often wrong, but never in doubt.