Star Trek: Discovery (Spoilers)

[Limey]

I was a little skeptical at first, but this show is really blossoming.  I do recognize that it's pulling inspiration for a number of places - like Discovery's "Galatican" ability to jump into and out of a hot zone (and is "go" really the best they could come up with as the jump command?) - but the characters are rounding out nicely and there is a lot to enjoy in the in-episode and long arc story lines.

I am not sure how Discovery's spore-based jump system fits into the timeline - this being between the original Trek and TNG.  Is it simply because Abrams blew up the old timeline with the movie reboot and so it's all free and clear going forward?  I'm not sure I'm cool with Picard et al being erased from history like that but, then again, it looks like he is setting up to erase the Jedi from Star Wars so...fuck.

[Waldo]

like Discovery's "Galatican" ability to jump into and out of a hot zone (and is "go" really the best they could come up with as the jump command?)

I do miss the use of "engage" but Lorca seems a little more laid back.

but the characters are rounding out nicely and there is a lot to enjoy in the in-episode and long arc story lines.

Completely agree.  My favorite exchange so far took place in the third episode:

Lorca: "Number One, what is your assessment of [Burnham's] abilities?"
Saru: "Her mutiny aside, she is the smartest Starfleet officer I have ever known."
Lorca: "Huh."  *looks at Stamets*  "He knows you."

From the last episode, though, there's one thing I can't take at face value.  I'm not sure about Lorca not only not going down with his ship, but also destroying it with all hands so that they couldn't be captured by the Klingons.  That's a bitch move since typical procedure in that scenario is to just set the auto-destruct to prevent the entire ship/crew from falling into enemy hands.  And since losing a starship is an automatic court-martial offense, that doesn't seem like a move that would get him a new command so quickly.  After all, if Starfleet isn't desperate enough to give Burnham her commission back, they shouldn't be desperate enough to keep around a cowardly captain who actively saves himself at the expense of his crew.  I would hope that more details about that incident come out, or we find out that it's just a lie.  Either way, though, it does make for an interesting character.

I am not sure how Discovery's spore-based jump system fits into the timeline - this being between the original Trek and TNG.  Is it simply because Abrams blew up the old timeline with the movie reboot and so it's all free and clear going forward?  I'm not sure I'm cool with Picard et al being erased from history like that but, then again, it looks like he is setting up to erase the Jedi from Star Wars so...fuck.

I think the spore drive will ultimately turn out to be a bust and/or infeasible on a larger scale (e.g. the USS Excelsior's transwarp drive in Star Trek III) or we'll see Starfleet ban its use for any number of reasons: moral/philosophical grounds (requiring a biological host to operate, and the Federation's general distaste for cybernetics), medical grounds (I'm waiting for Stamets to develop some interesting symptoms from his experience), as a result of a treaty with the Klingons (e.g. the Federation agreeing not to develop cloaking technology in the Treaty of Algeron with the Romulans), or some other reason (e.g. in TNG the Federation banned warp travel beyond warp 5, IIRC, because they discovered that high-speed warp travel caused damage to subspace; however, due to TNG's episodic nature and the inconvenience of a fleet of ships capable of warp 9+ being limited to warp 5, this plot element didn't really last beyond one or two episodes).  All of these are plausible and would allow the spore drive to fit into canon.

I've read some speculation that the Discovery is really a Section 31 ship, which would help explain the advanced technology on the ship, the black Starfleet badges that Burnham had never seen before, and the prevailing "win at all costs" mentality that is so far divorced from the Starfleet/Federation mindset that we're used to seeing.  Since this war with the Klingons is the Federation's first major military conflict that we know about (the Xindi War was pre-Federation) I'm guessing we'll see the Federation lose its soul in order to find it and, in so doing, eventually shove Section 31 back into the shadows in which it operates by the DS9 era.

In general, I'm going to sit back and let things play out before I gripe too much about canon.

Also, thanks for the welcome diversion.  Writing this was a lot more fun than writing another ALCS preview.

[Limey]

Thanks for the welcome diversion.  Writing this was a lot more fun than writing another ALCS preview.

I'm sure.  In that universe, the Klingons are winning.

[Limey]

I took Lorca's story about blowing up his ship to be one of the lies he dropped in order see who was the traitor (maybe I have the chronology wrong in my head).  I'm waiting for the crewman he rescued to turn out to be a complete plant by the Klingons ("They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape.").

Good thought about the spore drive getting sidelined by treaty with the Klingons - an easy giveaway when the time comes, perhaps, given the toll on the “driver”.  It might be a bit much to give, though, in addition to cloaking tech.

I'm not sure about the attitude of Lorca et al being "black Starfleet" as much as it is Abrams penchant for blowing shit up.  He was always more Star Wars than Star Trek, so the nuanced philosophy of the Trek universe seems lost on him mostly.

[Jacksonian]

I was a little skeptical at first, but this show is really blossoming.  I do recognize that it's pulling inspiration for a number of places - like Discovery's "Galatican" ability to jump into and out of a hot zone (and is "go" really the best they could come up with as the jump command?) - but the characters are rounding out nicely and there is a lot to enjoy in the in-episode and long arc story lines.

I am not sure how Discovery's spore-based jump system fits into the timeline - this being between the original Trek and TNG.  Is it simply because Abrams blew up the old timeline with the movie reboot and so it's all free and clear going forward?  I'm not sure I'm cool with Picard et al being erased from history like that but, then again, it looks like he is setting up to erase the Jedi from Star Wars so...fuck.

You pay for CBS?

[Waldo]

One thing I missed on my original read of your post: Discovery is set about 10 years pre-TOS, not between TOS and TNG.

Good thought about the spore drive getting sidelined by treaty with the Klingons - an easy giveaway when the time comes, perhaps, given the toll on the “driver”.  It might be a bit much to give, though, in addition to cloaking tech.

Cloaking tech is given up in a treaty with the Romulans and won't happen for another 50+ years.

I'm not sure about the attitude of Lorca et al being "black Starfleet" as much as it is Abrams penchant for blowing shit up.  He was always more Star Wars than Star Trek, so the nuanced philosophy of the Trek universe seems lost on him mostly.

Lens flares notwithstanding, Abrams is not and was never involved with Discovery.  A couple of his people from the reboot movies were/are, but the series is largely the brainchild of a writer from DS9/Voyager (Bryan Fuller), the writer/director of Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country (Nicholas Meyer), and someone with the last name Roddenberry, among others.  In other words, unlike with the reboot movies, actual "Star Trek people" have been heavily involved with this one.

And it may not be so much the presence of a "black Starfleet" within Starfleet as it is Starfleet becoming a "black Starfleet" in order to fight the war.  As I said, losing its soul to find it.

[Limey]

You pay for CBS?

I pay for Star Trek; I watch nothing else on CBS.  Buck fiddy an episode.

[Limey]

One thing I missed on my original read of your post: Discovery is set about 10 years pre-TOS, not between TOS and TNG.

Cloaking tech is given up in a treaty with the Romulans and won't happen for another 50+ years.

Lens flares notwithstanding, Abrams is not and was never involved with Discovery.  A couple of his people from the reboot movies were/are, but the series is largely the brainchild of a writer from DS9/Voyager (Bryan Fuller), the writer/director of Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country (Nicholas Meyer), and someone with the last name Roddenberry, among others.  In other words, unlike with the reboot movies, actual "Star Trek people" have been heavily involved with this one.

And it may not be so much the presence of a "black Starfleet" within Starfleet as it is Starfleet becoming a "black Starfleet" in order to fight the war.  As I said, losing its soul to find it.

All good stuff, thanks!  Didn't realise this one was a prequel to the original series.  So it's between "Enterprise" and TOS?

[Jacksonian]

All good stuff, thanks!  Didn't realise this one was a prequel to the original series.  So it's between "Enterprise" and TOS?

If it's 10 years before the reboot Kirk, Spock... in which they fight the time traveling Romulan then it is post re-boot Starfleet because the time travel happened at the moment of Kirk's birth which would have been, what 25 or so years before Kirk and Spock battle the time travelers.

[Waldo]

All good stuff, thanks!  Didn't realise this one was a prequel to the original series.  So it's between "Enterprise" and TOS?

Correct.  You'll notice that on Saru's list of great captains in the last episode, Kirk was absent because he was still in Starfleet Academy.  Robert April (who was on Saru's list) was in command of USS Enterprise at the time. 

If it's 10 years before the reboot Kirk, Spock... in which they fight the time traveling Romulan then it is post re-boot Starfleet because the time travel happened at the moment of Kirk's birth which would have been, what 25 or so years before Kirk and Spock battle the time travelers.

For Discovery you can completely ignore the events of the reboot movies.

[Limey]

Correct.  You'll notice that on Saru's list of great captains in the last episode, Kirk was absent because he was still in Starfleet Academy.  Robert April (who was on Saru's list) was in command of USS Enterprise at the time. 

I confess that I never watched "Enterprise", so that reference went right over my head.  I did see Christopher Pike, though.

For Discovery you can completely ignore the events of the reboot movies.

But, as the reboot happens at the time of Kirk's birth, hasn't Nereo's attack happened already?  Isn't Vulcan destroyed?

[Jacksonian]

But, as the reboot happens at the time of Kirk's birth, hasn't Nereo's attack happened already?  Isn't Vulcan destroyed?

Nero's original attack on Kirk's dad's ship, yes.  The Vulcan obliteration happened when reboot Kirk and Spock were on the scene.

[Limey]

Nero's original attack on Kirk's dad's ship, yes.  The Vulcan obliteration happened when reboot Kirk and Spock were on the scene.

I found this, which helped me figure out where/when we are.

So, basically, they're having their cake and eating it in that they destroyed the "Prime" timeline with the "Kelvin" timeline, but they still feel free to go back and fill in bits in the Prime timeline even though - because of the time paradox - it never actually happened.  Fascinating.

[Limey]

I'm waiting for the crewman he rescued to turn out to be a complete plant by the Klingons ("They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape.").

Well, there's a fan-theory coalescing around this same thought.  Although, [potential major spoiler] much more interesting and rooted in the real world.

[Waldo]

So, basically, they're having their cake and eating it in that they destroyed the "Prime" timeline with the "Kelvin" timeline, but they still feel free to go back and fill in bits in the Prime timeline even though - because of the time paradox - it never actually happened.  Fascinating.

Exactly.  If you ever watched DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations", in which the DS9 crew accidentally travel back in time to Kirk's Enterprise, they managed to poke fun at temporal paradoxes.

[Limey]

Exactly.  If you ever watched DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations", in which the DS9 crew accidentally travel back in time to Kirk's Enterprise, they managed to poke fun at temporal paradoxes.

I have noticed Lorca's pet tribble.  It's brought into the Vok fan theory (linked above) in that their innate fear of Klingons might "out" a spy...

[Limey]

I do miss the use of "engage" but Lorca seems a little more laid back.

As it's a spore-based drive, just go with "Shroom!"

[Limey]

So.   Episode 12, eh?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'm just on episode 10. I really like the show a lot but didn't care for the episode where Dwight from The Office was screwing with the Captain.

[Limey]

I'm just on episode 10. I really like the show a lot but didn't care for the episode where Dwight from The Office was screwing with the Captain.

Yeah, that was a bit weird.  I don't know if that's going to come back around but, now that Discovery is in the upside down* mirror universe, he may.  Mudd may simply have been included for (1) padding, and (b) to anchor this storyline in the correct timeframe; or "Mirror" Mudd could be a good guy who saves the day.

* To be fair, it's the mirror universe that's been explored in Star Trek going back to the original series.

Warning!  Episodes 11 and 12 each have major reveals - one you will probably have seen coming and one you likely will have not (they deliver it in the style of the Sixth Sense, showing you all the signs you missed) - so you may want to get on with watching them.  You probably shouldn't look at this thread again until you have! 

[Waldo]

This show kicks so much ass.

[Limey]

This show kicks so much ass.

I have seen some negative comments about it, but I just put those down to Trekkies who are more interested in lore than being entertained.  I must admit to being a little confused as to how the Defiant can show up in TOS, Enterprise, and now here, but I've done some reading up on it and I think I have it now (when it crossed over, it was thrown back in time too).  That was established long before Discovery came along, so they're just following canon here.

I'm looking forward to seeing how they handle the appearance of the Defiant (will they update the set or use the same cheapo appearance from the original show?), but I'm still not sure how the spore drive exists pre-TOS.  It must get lost to time somewhere, but how?  Also, WTF is Mirror Defiant up to in the real world...?!

[Knoxbanedoodle]

This show kicks so much ass.

Seconded.

Completely hoodwinked by the Lorca revelation, me, and not a little confused by the mechanics of all this mirror shit. Excited to see what they've come up with. What are there, three more episodes in the season? 

[Limey]

Completely hoodwinked by the Lorca revelation, me, and not a little confused by the mechanics of all this mirror shit. Excited to see what they've come up with. What are there, three more episodes in the season?

Four more episodes to come.  This helped me get up to speed on the mirror universe, which is currently up to date as of Ep12 of Discovery.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Wow, that was a good twist. Didn't see it coming at all. I love this show. I think it's the best Star Trek series so far.

[Limey]

Wow, that was a good twist. Didn't see it coming at all. I love this show. I think it's the best Star Trek series so far.

Lorca had always seemed a little...off.  Not suggesting that I saw it coming.  I didn't.  But I likened it to the Sixth Sense reveal because once you know - and they show you all the multiple tells throughout the show - you feel a little stupid for not having clocked it earlier.  We were all talking about Voq/Tyler, which had been overtly foreshadowed and thus acted as a perfect smokescreen for their slight of hand with Lorca.

Golf clap!

[Waldo]

Another badass episode tonight. This show has redefined Star Trek fight scenes.

[Limey]

Another badass episode tonight. This show has redefined Star Trek fight scenes.

Whew!  I clicked in here with trepidation, as I have yet to see the latest episode.  Glad to hear it's a good one, will watch tonight!

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Another badass episode tonight. This show has redefined Star Trek fight scenes.

Boy, no kidding. Typically I snooze through fight scenes. That was something else entirely.

[Limey]

FYI, if you aren't nerd enough to watch the "After Trek" episodes, I suggest giving them a go (also, why are you reading this thread?).  Jeremy Isaacs was on the last one and was equal parts hilarious and informative.  He explained how, during the throne room fight scene, he wanted to stab Georgiou through Landry, because he thought it would look cool.  He also co-wrote Lorca's victory speech.

Also, Rekha Sharma is smoking hot in real lie.

[Waldo]

FYI, if you aren't nerd enough to watch the "After Trek" episodes, I suggest giving them a go (also, why are you reading this thread?).  Jeremy Isaacs was on the last one and was equal parts hilarious and informative.  He explained how, during the throne room fight scene, he wanted to stab Georgiou through Landry, because he thought it would look cool.  He also co-wrote Lorca's victory speech.

I only lasted a couple minutes through the very first After Trek.  I thought the host was insufferable.

Also, Rekha Sharma is smoking hot in real lie.

She's even hotter now than she was on BSG.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Any word on when season 2 begins?

ETA: Generic web search reveals season 2 wont air until 2019. Bummer.

[Limey]

Was very much underwhelmed by the finale.  Even the tease at the end felt like a cheat. 

Excellent show overall, and this isn’t the first time a series has failed to stick the landing. 

[WVastro]

For any Sic-fi fans out there, I've been thoroughly enjoying Netflix's Altered Carbon (only 4 episodes in so I hope I don't regret typing this). Some might not enjoy the gratuitous nudity but I think the premise of the show actually helps justify it in a way that speaks to how humans typically behave with a relatively readily available disposable resource. I'd be curious what ya'll think.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Was very much underwhelmed by the finale.  Even the tease at the end felt like a cheat. 

Excellent show overall, and this isn’t the first time a series has failed to stick the landing.

Felt pretty much the same way. I wasn't expecting a cliffhanger but they just kind of wound it down all nice and tidy. And yes, overall a great series.

[Limey]

Unresolved question:  Prime Universe Lorca?

[Limey]

Felt pretty much the same way. I wasn't expecting a cliffhanger but they just kind of wound it down all nice and tidy. And yes, overall a great series.

The resolution of the plot to destroy the Klingon home world was weak - at best.  I was watching it happen and then was ... wait!  That's it!?  Burnham asks nicely and the whole thing goes away?

Also, L'Rell's path to power was equally as rushed and nonsensical.  Why would warring warlords lay down their arms because someone waived an iPad at them, blackmailing them with complete destruction if they didn't comply, when glorious death is their favorite thing?

Further, they inevitably ran up their own backsides with the whole spore drive thing, by needing Discovery to be warping to Vulcan because jumping there would've prevented the chance rendezvous at the end.  The rationale for the choice to warp was another weak plot device.  I can only hope they do a better job of explaining why spore drives hadn't been mentioned anywhere along the original timeline, despite being around before TOS.

As you can tell, the more I think about it, the more irritated I become.  All that effort into making a fantastic new franchise for the Trek universe, and this is the best they can come up with as an ending?  Ugh!

To offset my rant, I will say that they handled the character issues in the finale excellently.  Maybe not so much with Mirror Georgiou wandering free, but the Burnham - Ash moment, and the Burnham speech to Starfleet were pitch-perfect.

[Limey]

Unresolved question:  Prime Universe Lorca?

Maybe he's the mystery captain awaiting the Discovery on Vulcan.

[Waldo]

Was very much underwhelmed by the finale.  Even the tease at the end felt like a cheat. 

If I may offer a counterpoint... this was very much a true Star Trek season/series ending.  To quote myself from earlier in the thread:

Since this war with the Klingons is the Federation's first major military conflict that we know about (the Xindi War was pre-Federation) I'm guessing we'll see the Federation lose its soul in order to find it

That's pretty much what we saw in the season finale: the Federation planning an attack that was so against their principles that they ultimately didn't go through with it.  It may have felt like a letdown if you were expecting more space battles and phaser fights.  Star Trek is good at those things, but it's at its best when that stuff takes a back seat to the character drama.  Yeah, the bit with the Klingons was a little too tidy and could've deserved some more screen time, but meh.

This was a really great season of TV.  Instantly better than any season Voyager and Enterprise produced, and right up there with the best of TNG and DS9 (IMO).  They didn't fall into the trap that Abrams, et. al, fell into with the movies: they changed the style of Star Trek but they didn't change the substance.  I'm interested to see what they have in store for the next season.  The pre-Kirk canon for the USS Enterprise is still largely uncharted territory, but I just hope they stay in their lane and don't get too cute with Discovery's interactions with the Enterprise.  This well will eventually run dry, since at this point they are only about eight years away from Kirk taking command of the Enterprise.  If they drag the show out that long and do another TOS recasting then I'm out.

[Waldo]

Further, they inevitably ran up their own backsides with the whole spore drive thing, by needing Discovery to be warping to Vulcan because jumping there would've prevented the chance rendezvous at the end.  The rationale for the choice to warp was another weak plot device.  I can only hope they do a better job of explaining why spore drives hadn't been mentioned anywhere along the original timeline, despite being around before TOS.

It may have never been explicitly stated, but it's reasonable to assume that Starfleet/the Federation were discontinuing the use of the spore drive as soon as the war ended.  This was the reason for them using the traditional warp drive at the end of the episode.  Stamets did say that Starfleet was looking into developing artificial hosts for the spore drive.  Given the rest of the Trek canon, it can be assumed that this effort is unsuccessful.  I kind of predicted this as well:

I think the spore drive will ultimately turn out to be a bust and/or infeasible on a larger scale (e.g. the USS Excelsior's transwarp drive in Star Trek III) or we'll see Starfleet ban its use for any number of reasons: moral/philosophical grounds (requiring a biological host to operate, and the Federation's general distaste for cybernetics), medical grounds (I'm waiting for Stamets to develop some interesting symptoms from his experience), as a result of a treaty with the Klingons (e.g. the Federation agreeing not to develop cloaking technology in the Treaty of Algeron with the Romulans), or some other reason (e.g. in TNG the Federation banned warp travel beyond warp 5, IIRC, because they discovered that high-speed warp travel caused damage to subspace; however, due to TNG's episodic nature and the inconvenience of a fleet of ships capable of warp 9+ being limited to warp 5, this plot element didn't really last beyond one or two episodes).  All of these are plausible and would allow the spore drive to fit into canon.

[Limey]

I'm interested to see what they have in store for the next season.  The pre-Kirk canon for the USS Enterprise is still largely uncharted territory, but I just hope they stay in their lane and don't get too cute with Discovery's interactions with the Enterprise.  This well will eventually run dry, since at this point they are only about eight years away from Kirk taking command of the Enterprise.  If they drag the show out that long and do another TOS recasting then I'm out.

I have read that as (pre-Kirk) Enterprise and Discovery co-exist in this timeframe, it makes sense that Enterprise at least shows up.  They are claiming, though, that it’s only a secondary plot issue and Discovery remains the focus of the show.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I was curious about mycelium spores and looked them up only to find out one of the leading mycologist in the world is a fellow by the name of Paul Stamets.

[Waldo]

I have read that as (pre-Kirk) Enterprise and Discovery co-exist in this timeframe, it makes sense that Enterprise at least shows up.  They are claiming, though, that it’s only a secondary plot issue and Discovery remains the focus of the show.

I know that the Discovery and Enterprise coexist at this point in time, and I'm fine with them featuring it in the show since the ship will not yet have Kirk or his crew (except possibly Spock, who served under Pike).  My hope was that later on (i.e. in a few seasons, if the show is still going) they resist the temptation to dredge up Kirk and the TOS crew again.

I'm curious to see how they depict the Enterprise internals (e.g. the bridge), given that Discovery's tech is equal to or better than the TNG/DS9 era.  I doubt that they're going to make it look the way it looked in the 1960s, but even the show Enterprise, with better special effects available to them, still depicted relatively primitive technology on the Enterprise NX-01 (buttons to open doors, comm panels vs. comm badges, etc.).

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I know that the Discovery and Enterprise coexist at this point in time, and I'm fine with them featuring it in the show since the ship will not yet have Kirk or his crew (except possibly Spock, who served under Pike).  My hope was that later on (i.e. in a few seasons, if the show is still going) they resist the temptation to dredge up Kirk and the TOS crew again.

I'm curious to see how they depict the Enterprise internals (e.g. the bridge), given that Discovery's tech is equal to or better than the TNG/DS9 era.  I doubt that they're going to make it look the way it looked in the 1960s, but even the show Enterprise, with better special effects available to them, still depicted relatively primitive technology on the Enterprise NX-01 (buttons to open doors, comm panels vs. comm badges, etc.).

Speaking of Enterprise, the Stellaris mod Star Trek: New Horizons prompted me to go back and pick it up at the end of the second season (Xindi) and I’ve been stunned by how much the show improved in the third season. There were some genuinely excellent episodes! I’d read that Braga complained about the cancellation—given the improvement—but at the time I have to admit I’d dropped it before then. The first two were just so terrible.

Anyway, I agree that the conclusion of Discovery’s first season was way too pat, but also that it was a million times better than the first season of any other non-TOS show. They packed at least an old school season’s worth of content into two-thirds the air-time. I’m excited about the next season.

I wonder, do we assume that each season is going to be similarly oriented around a single narrative? I actually like the random ship-in-a-bottle episode, of which in this year there was maybe one.

[Waldo]

Speaking of Enterprise, the Stellaris mod Star Trek: New Horizons prompted me to go back and pick it up at the end of the second season (Xindi) and I’ve been stunned by how much the show improved in the third season. There were some genuinely excellent episodes! I’d read that Braga complained about the cancellation—given the improvement—but at the time I have to admit I’d dropped it before then. The first two were just so terrible.

I'd given up on Enterprise before then too, and a fellow Trek nerd begged me to start watching it again halfway through the last season.  Problem is that the tail end of Enterprise ran concurrently with the first season of the new Battlestar Galactica.  Even after Enterprise improved, it was almost comical to compare the quality of the two shows side by side.  That may have colored my opinion of Enterprise even more.

A couple years ago I finally decided to go back and watch it from start to finish.  I thought the Xindi war was okay, but with lesser writing and (mostly) lesser actors it was always just an imitation Dominion war to me.  I did like a few episodes here and there, though.

Also, I hated - HATED - the series finale.

I wonder, do we assume that each season is going to be similarly oriented around a single narrative? I actually like the random ship-in-a-bottle episode, of which in this year there was maybe one.

I suspect that long story arcs are here to stay, but I think DS9 did a good job of mixing in offbeat episodes (like "Far Beyond the Stars"  "Take Me Out to the Holosuite").  However, DS9's seasons also had about 10 more episodes, so they could afford to do stuff like that more often.

[Limey]

With the new season coming up, is there any reason - other than potential for spoilers - not to wait until near the end, order the CBS subscription for one month, and binge the fuck out of it?

[Knoxbanedoodle]

With the new season coming up, is there any reason - other than potential for spoilers - not to wait until near the end, order the CBS subscription for one month, and binge the fuck out of it?

That's what I've been planning on, but since you're asking, I do believe the categorical imperative would dictate otherwise.

[Limey]

That's what I've been planning on, but since you're asking, I do believe the categorical imperative would dictate otherwise.

I’m not sure there’s anything unethical about it; it’s just using CBS’ business plan to one’s own benefit or, more accurately, to reduce one’s deficit. 

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Yes, but if everyone did it they might cancel the show.

[Limey]

Yes, but if everyone did it they might cancel the show.

Or just put it on broadcast TV. 

[Mike S.]

That's what I've been planning on, but since you're asking, I do believe the categorical imperative would dictate otherwise.

We also waited for the end of the season to binge watch everything.  The delayed gratification was well worth the sacrifice.

Has anyone heard any discussion about the plot of the second season?  I've been far too caught up in other things, or maybe just simply lazy, to do any research on my own.

[Limey]

We also waited for the end of the season to binge watch everything.  The delayed gratification was well worth the sacrifice.

Has anyone heard any discussion about the plot of the second season?  I've been far too caught up in other things, or maybe just simply lazy, to do any research on my own.

They're going to introduce more technology that is more advanced than anything seen in any ST iteration ever, further polluting their own timeline.

[Waldo]

Ok, so I don't know which of you nerds are watching this now or waiting to binge it, but season 2 is almost over.  I'm still having trouble deciding where this fits into my hierarchy of Trek shows, and I'm almost considering it an entity unto itself, but I've really enjoyed a lot of the things they've done this season.

For those who haven't watched yet I will list only vague spoilers for now...

At the top of that list is Anson Mount's portrayal of Christopher Pike, who has shot up my rankings of personal favorite captains and maybe trails only Patrick Stewart as Picard.  The TOS tie-ins they've done for Pike with the Talosians and his later accident were really well done.  They've already said that Mount/Pike won't be back for season 3, and while I wouldn't be terribly excited about yet another prequel series if they decided to do a Pike spinoff (like they're doing with Georgiou/Michelle Yeoh), I'm kind of sad that Mount/Pike are done on-screen after this season.

They're going to introduce more technology that is more advanced than anything seen in any ST iteration ever, further polluting their own timeline.

I've largely come to terms with the fact that they are retconning newer tech into a pre-TOS show, mostly because by today's standards TOS looks like a piece of shit so why should they make Discovery, with a larger budget and better effects/set design, look like a piece of shit?  However, throughout season 2 they've laid the groundwork for tidying up a few "advanced technology" bits by season's end, including the spore drive (increasingly plausible reasoning throughout the season) and the holographic communication system (somewhat less plausible, but whatever).

In a similar vein:

I'm curious to see how they depict the Enterprise internals (e.g. the bridge), given that Discovery's tech is equal to or better than the TNG/DS9 era.  I doubt that they're going to make it look the way it looked in the 1960s, but even the show Enterprise, with better special effects available to them, still depicted relatively primitive technology on the Enterprise NX-01 (buttons to open doors, comm panels vs. comm badges, etc.).

We do eventually see the inside of the Enterprise, and their depiction of it is a modern, yet faithful, take on the original design.  It's what the TOS Enterprise would have looked like if Gene Roddenberry were given a larger budget.  And the exterior of the Enterprise, once they get around to showing "starship porn" of it, is goddamn gorgeous in this show.

I know that the Discovery and Enterprise coexist at this point in time, and I'm fine with them featuring it in the show since the ship will not yet have Kirk or his crew (except possibly Spock, who served under Pike).  My hope was that later on (i.e. in a few seasons, if the show is still going) they resist the temptation to dredge up Kirk and the TOS crew again.

Even if you're waiting to binge the show, unless you've been living under a rock you know that Spock is indeed depicted in season 2.  If you're going to dig Spock back up yet again then you have to do it right, so I was a little skeptical at first.  It takes a while for it to really pay off but it's turned out really well, IMO.

And now for some predictions about the season finale which includes MAJOR SPOILERS:

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stop scrolling if you haven't watched yet

no really, stop scrolling

ok, here goes

1.  I've seen some speculation that Control eventually becomes the Borg.  While it does look like the plot breadcrumbs may be leading in that direction, Star Trek: First Contact establishes that the Borg existed at least 150 years before the events of Discovery (when Vulcans make first contact with Earth in 2063, the Borg are "still in the Delta Quadrant" a loooooong way from Federation space).  I'm hoping we don't see them try to connect the dots without a really plausible explanation.

2.  At first I thought that the Short Treks were fun little one-off shorts that weren't relevant to anything.  But now they've incorporated "The Brightest Star" and "Runaway" into the season 2 plot, and I think they're gearing up to incorporate "Calypso".  In "Calypso" the Discovery, without any explanation given, has been sitting abandoned in space for as much as a thousand years, and in that time its computer has developed its own consciousness and identity.  By now in season 2 we've already seen that the Sphere data in Discovery's computers has evolved to protect itself (first by locking the data when the crew tries to delete it, and later by aborting the ship's auto-destruct on its own), so the crew is going to have to time-crystal-spore-jump Discovery into the future and abandon it there to protect the Sphere data from Control.  Knowing that the show has already been renewed for a third season I find it hard to imagine that they'll air a show named Discovery about a ship named Discovery without that ship, but if they pull it off I'm here for it.

3.  As Enteprise and Discovery prepare to face the Control ships in battle, how did they have so many shuttlecraft?  It's even more than Voyager had in the Delta Quadrant!

[Limey]

Not started it yet.  Best get to it I guess.

[MusicMan]

Sorry, I’m over here with the Episode IX trailer on loop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Limey]

Sorry, I’m over here with the Episode IX trailer on loop.

"Wait, which one is that?  Star thingy?"
 - Mrs Limey

[Limey]

I just finished Season 2.  Holy fucking shit that was epic!

Further comments will include spoilers. 

[Limey]

[SPOILERS]

OK, let's dispense with one major and one minor piece of plot nonsense:

1)  Having Tyler on the bridge of a Klingon vessel - when he was theatrically displayed as being dead in order to maintain a nervy piece in the Empire - was silly.  Minor, but silly; but

2)  Why, after Control was dispatched, did they still go through with the plan to jump to the future?  Taking what's left of Control with them!  Surely the entire point of the final plan was to separate Control from the Sphere data by time.  Well now they have both leapt forward 950 years together, albeit with Control being declared neutralized.

With that out of the way, I think someone re-watched the BSG reboot, and decided to take it to 11.  Each episode was a balance between spiritual and emotional exploration, and amazing battles.  The production values were truly cinematic.  And then, in the finale - they put on screen perhaps the largest, longest, most complex and meaningful space battle ever seen on the small screen.  It made sense too:  no single shot that takes out an entire array of weapons, or knocks out life support, or takes down the shields around some crucial part of the ship.  Both Discovery and Enterprise take - and give - an absolute pounding a la Galactica and Pegasus in the rescue from New Caprica, with their shields counting down at a consistent rate during the near-episode long battle.  Burnham flying in her Red Angel suit across the saucer of Enterprise at the peak of the battle was gorgeous!

The entire season - again following the BSG theme (and being seasonally appropriate) - was an Easter egg hunt , with Discovery following a series of signals to bring it to it's ultimate destiny.  Derivative?  Sure.  But so well executed it doesn't really come to mind until you start writing about it the day after.  All of the characters, with the exception of the villain, "Control", were well-rounded and interesting.  They fleshed out Burnham even more, and made her perhaps one of the most pivotal characters in the entire Star Trek canon (I'll explain below).  Pike was so good that there is a clamor for a Pike/Enterprise spin-off (Discovery being set 10 years before/940 years ahead of TOS).  There is supposed to be a Section 31 spin-off in the works already, but that was supposed to include Georgiou, who wormholed off to the 24th century with the rest of the Discovery's occupants.

Control was meant to be Thanos-squared, but was totally lacking in true menace or charisma, perhaps because he was a fledgling AI or perhaps because there were just too many great characters on the other side of the equation.  He was powerful and relentless, and it was a bit weird that - in the end - he was beaten to death physically by Georgiou.  Perhaps they needed something for her to do in the final battle, but to get them together it needed Control to board Discovery, setting up the plot hole above.  There surely was a better way to have this happen - maybe put her on his ship, rather than the other way around.

Burnham's relationship with her foster-brother Spock seemed contrived in Season 1 but, here, they made it real and meaningful.  One being the yin to the other's yang.  It was the constant theme throughout the season and was very well done.  Though separated by fate in the end, she showed - and told - Spock what it is that he needs to be able to achieve all he can be:  "find that person who seems farthest from you, and reach for them," she told him at their emotional parting  Clearly foreshadowing Spock's friendship with Kirk - that it the crux of so much of Star Trek - but, crucially, Burnham is now the catalyst that makes that happen.  Mind...blown.

In the end, they tied off the major loose ends the show created with the existing canon - with various levels of aplomb.  Discovery is now erased from history and deposited into the future, with the spore drive, the Sphere data and the Red Angel suit, to take us on an exploration of a Star Trek universe yer to be seen.  I can't wait.

[Waldo]

2)  Why, after Control was dispatched, did they still go through with the plan to jump to the future?  Taking what's left of Control with them!  Surely the entire point of the final plan was to separate Control from the Sphere data by time.  Well now they have both leapt forward 950 years together, albeit with Control being declared neutralized.

Because just defeating Control wasn't enough.  If they defeated Control, they were worried that its remnants - or a potential successor AI - would make another play for the Sphere data.  Since the Sphere data had more or less permanently ingrained itself into the Discovery's computer and took steps to protect itself, the only solution was to jump Discovery into the future.  With the Discovery punted out of the timeline, Starfleet then had to classify the Discovery out of existence so that whatever AI came after Control would never know about the Discovery or the Sphere data.  A bit implausible, admittedly, but there you have it.

Of course, it also raises the question of what other dangers Discovery faces from (presumably) more evolved AIs in the future, but whatever.

With that out of the way, I think someone re-watched the BSG reboot, and decided to take it to 11.  Each episode was a balance between spiritual and emotional exploration, and amazing battles.  The production values were truly cinematic.  And then, in the finale - they put on screen perhaps the largest, longest, most complex and meaningful space battle ever seen on the small screen.  It made sense too:  no single shot that takes out an entire array of weapons, or knocks out life support, or takes down the shields around some crucial part of the ship.  Both Discovery and Enterprise take - and give - an absolute pounding a la Galactica and Pegasus in the rescue from New Caprica, with their shields counting down at a consistent rate during the near-episode long battle.  Burnham flying in her Red Angel suit across the saucer of Enterprise at the peak of the battle was gorgeous!

I did really like the fact that it took 700+ episodes but they finally depicted a quasi-realistic space battle.  Trek far too often suffers from stuff like:

Captain: "Shields up."
*photon torpedo hits*
Tactical officer: "Shields down to 47 percent!"

What, like one torpedo could really do that much damage?  The Dominion War battles from DS9 come close, but even they showed motherfucking Galaxy class ships taking critical damage from a single phaser hit.  The Dominion/Breen/Cardassians had powerful weapons, sure, but even the Borg were never depicted to have had that kind of firepower.  Of course, the explanation for this is that they only had so much time in a 44-minute episode so they compressed the drama of battles by making the shields fail quickly, but it's always resulted in Starfleet ships looking very fragile in canon. 

My only complaint about the battle is that the Discovery looked pristine as it entered the temporal distortion.  Given the fact that stuff was exploding on the bridge and elsewhere, it should've showed at least some battle damage.  Even when the Enterprise-D went up against the Borg cube in The Best of Both Worlds, they had hull breaches and lost crewmen and intentionally fried their main deflector but the ship looked totally fine on the outside.  Again, there's a valid explanation for this (budgetary limitations on CGI) but it's always been lacking.

The torpedo taking out the Enterprise's forward saucer section was pretty badass, though.

There is supposed to be a Section 31 spin-off in the works already, but that was supposed to include Georgiou, who wormholed off to the 24th century with the rest of the Discovery's occupants.

I'm kind of wondering about that myself.  Maybe Georgiou got off the Discovery after all?

Control was meant to be Thanos-squared, but was totally lacking in true menace or charisma, perhaps because he was a fledgling AI or perhaps because there were just too many great characters on the other side of the equation.  He was powerful and relentless, and it was a bit weird that - in the end - he was beaten to death physically by Georgiou.  Perhaps they needed something for her to do in the final battle, but to get them together it needed Control to board Discovery, setting up the plot hole above.  There surely was a better way to have this happen - maybe put her on his ship, rather than the other way around.

Remember that Leland was human before Control infected/invaded him.  And he went to Discovery to try to retrieve the Sphere data himself since that was the only place it could be done.  As for how Control/Leland was defeated, there is on-screen precedent for something like that: Picard defeated the Borg in First Contact by defeating the Borg Queen, and individual Borg drones were susceptible to physical damage/injury.  Control Leland, being both biological and technological, was probably at the point where one couldn't survive without the other.

In the end, they tied off the major loose ends the show created with the existing canon - with various levels of aplomb.  Discovery is now erased from history and deposited into the future, with the spore drive, the Sphere data and the Red Angel suit, to take us on an exploration of a Star Trek universe yer to be seen.  I can't wait.

Agreed.  I still don't know where the show ranks overall, but I do know that this is pretty high up the list of my favorite Star Trek seasons ever.

[Limey]

I still don't know where the show ranks overall, but I do know that this is pretty high up the list of my favorite Star Trek seasons ever.

I was not kidding when likening it to BSG.  It was that good.  I am excited to see where they go from here, both with Discovery, Section 31 and/or a Pike-era Enterprise series (most likely they'll feature Pike in the Section 31 show, though).