Now that we have Verlander...

[TerryPuhl21]

.......I'm assuming Peacock goes back to the bullpen and Fiers is the odd man out???

Keuchel
Verlander
McHugh
McCullers
Morton

All of this assumes McCullers comes back healthy.


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[BudGirl]

.......I'm assuming Peacock goes back to the bullpen and Fiers is the odd man out???

Keuchel
Verlander
McHugh
McCullers
Morton

All of this assumes McCullers comes back healthy.


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I'm good with that.

[Navin R Johnson]

If the playoffs started now, Peacock is clearly the 3rd best starter.   Im way more comfortable with him on the mound than Morton/McHugh/Fiers and McCullers too until he proves he is healthy.

[homer]

If the playoffs started now, Peacock is clearly the 3rd best starter.   Im way more comfortable with him on the mound than Morton/McHugh/Fiers and McCullers too until he proves he is healthy.

McHugh has looked pretty good.

[Navin R Johnson]

McHugh has looked pretty good.

True, it is close to a toss up b/w them.

[doyce7]

With keuchel and verlander both having pitched Wednesday, I wonder which one starts Monday. I'd imagine keuchel would, with verlander going Tuesday. 

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[TerryPuhl21]

Don't we have to make a roster move to make room for Verlander?? When we DFA'd Diaz that made room for Maybin. None of the three we traded for Verlander were on the 40-man roster so someone else has to be traded or DFA'd. Do we DFA Hoyt?? Do we trade say.....Fiers for a low level prospect.


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[doyce7]

Don't we have to make a roster move to make room for Verlander?? When we DFA'd Diaz that made room for Maybin. None of the three we traded for Verlander were on the 40-man roster so someone else has to be traded or DFA'd. Do we DFA Hoyt?? Do we trade say.....Fiers for a low level prospect.


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I'd think dfa someone or add someone to the 60-day DL

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[JimR]

I would not give up on Morton. He has no hit stuff every time out until his mysterious loss of command around the 5th or 6th.  I think he still is adjusting to his new bionic arm/velocity, and with no knowledge, only observation, I think he also may be dealing with confidence/trusting his stuff issues. I think Peacock is more valuable as a bridge to Harris and whoever else gets us to Giles. Watching Hinch reconstitute the staff and pen will be interesting and fun. Fiers has to be the odd man out despite his flashes of really good pitching this year, and I cannot believe they will DFA Hoyt.

Kuechel, Verlander, McHugh, McCullers (BIG IF!), Morton would be my rotation with Morton in the pen IF we make the post-season. A lot depends on McCullers, and damn you, Angelos. Britton should be on this team.

Sipp, Feliz, Hoyt, Martes, Musgrove--we'll see how they do in September. My guess is Liriano will be there because of experience and LHP. He has the stuff for sure.

ETA: "The Astros gave up more than I would have" stuff has started in some of the blogging. Fuck them. I understand Perez and Rogers are great prospects, and who knows about Cameron, but these same people vilified Luhnow at the deadline for being in love with his prospect. The message is: no matter what you do, the Internet experts will come down hard.

[Navin R Johnson]

WTF, people  are complaining about us giving up too much?  I have been banging the, don't overpay drum pretty loudly, and I was ecstatic when I saw what we had to part with to land Justin Verlander.   Sure we gave up more than we did to get Randy Johnson, but the Astros now have Verlander for the next 2 seasons after this year!   Verlander to go with Altuve, Springer, Correa, Guriel, Reddick, Bregman, McCann, McCullers, McHugh, Peacock, Giles, Devo, Harris, and a host of younger guys on the cusp.  We also have Keuchel and Marwin through at least next season.

This trade was a no brainer.

[The Spleen]

ETA: "The Astros gave up more than I would have" stuff has started in some of the blogging. Fuck them. I understand Perez and Rogers are great prospects, and who knows about Cameron, but these same people vilified Luhnow at the deadline for being in love with his prospect. The message is: no matter what you do, the Internet experts will come down hard.

Getting Verlander and part of his salary for those three players is a great deal.

[BudGirl]

I would not give up on Morton. He has no hit stuff every time out until his mysterious loss of command around the 5th or 6th.  I think he still is adjusting to his new bionic arm/velocity, and with no knowledge, only observation, I think he also may be dealing with confidence/trusting his stuff issues. I think Peacock is more valuable as a bridge to Harris and whoever else gets us to Giles. Watching Hinch reconstitute the staff and pen will be interesting and fun. Fiers has to be the odd man out despite his flashes of really good pitching this year, and I cannot believe they will DFA Hoyt.

Kuechel, Verlander, McHugh, McCullers (BIG IF!), Morton would be my rotation with Morton in the pen IF we make the post-season. A lot depends on McCullers, and damn you, Angelos. Britton should be on this team.

Sipp, Feliz, Hoyt, Martes, Musgrove--we'll see how they do in September. My guess is Liriano will be there because of experience and LHP. He has the stuff for sure.

ETA: "The Astros gave up more than I would have" stuff has started in some of the blogging. Fuck them. I understand Perez and Rogers are great prospects, and who knows about Cameron, but these same people vilified Luhnow at the deadline for being in love with his prospect. The message is: no matter what you do, the Internet experts will come down hard.

Re Britton:. Unless any of those three would have been dealt for him.  Verlander deal could have been different

[hostros7]

WTF, people  are complaining about us giving up too much?  I have been banging the, don't overpay drum pretty loudly, and I was ecstatic when I saw what we had to part with to land Justin Verlander.   Sure we gave up more than we did to get Randy Johnson, but the Astros now have Verlander for the next 2 seasons after this year!   

Agree. I would love to know if the final package is the same package that Luhnow (or someone with knowledge of the situation) said was fair and with which he was standing firm.


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[juliogotay]

I would not give up on Morton. He has no hit stuff every time out until his mysterious loss of command around the 5th or 6th.  I think he still is adjusting to his new bionic arm/velocity, and with no knowledge, only observation, I think he also may be dealing with confidence/trusting his stuff issues. I think Peacock is more valuable as a bridge to Harris and whoever else gets us to Giles. Watching Hinch reconstitute the staff and pen will be interesting and fun. Fiers has to be the odd man out despite his flashes of really good pitching this year, and I cannot believe they will DFA Hoyt.

Kuechel, Verlander, McHugh, McCullers (BIG IF!), Morton would be my rotation with Morton in the pen IF we make the post-season. A lot depends on McCullers, and damn you, Angelos. Britton should be on this team.

Sipp, Feliz, Hoyt, Martes, Musgrove--we'll see how they do in September. My guess is Liriano will be there because of experience and LHP. He has the stuff for sure.

ETA: "The Astros gave up more than I would have" stuff has started in some of the blogging. Fuck them. I understand Perez and Rogers are great prospects, and who knows about Cameron, but these same people vilified Luhnow at the deadline for being in love with his prospect. The message is: no matter what you do, the Internet experts will come down hard.

Last night, post-trade, the MLB guys were saying the Britton deal fell apart due to health concerns. I had not heard that before.

[JimR]

Last night, post-trade, the MLB guys were saying the Britton deal fell apart due to health concerns. I had not heard that before.

Sure you did. It was reported widely. Baltimore often uses medical as the reason to back out of deals.

[Jacksonian]

WTF, people  are complaining about us giving up too much?  I have been banging the, don't overpay drum pretty loudly, and I was ecstatic when I saw what we had to part with to land Justin Verlander.   Sure we gave up more than we did to get Randy Johnson, but the Astros now have Verlander for the next 2 seasons after this year!   Verlander to go with Altuve, Springer, Correa, Guriel, Reddick, Bregman, McCann, McCullers, McHugh, Peacock, Giles, Devo, Harris, and a host of younger guys on the cusp.  We also have Keuchel and Marwin through at least next season.

This trade was a no brainer.

For what little it's worth, as Bus Driver #1 this is complete highway robbery if Verlander maintains his stuff.  Perez has top of the rotation stuff but that's never a guarantee of major league success.  Cameron has everyday center fielder ability but has to hit, and that's been up and down.  Rogers has MLB right now defensive capability.  His hitting has a ways to go.  One thing is for certain.  If Luhnow thought they were can't live without prospects he wouldn't have dealt them.  He clearly see Whitley and Tucker in that category.  He could have dealt either of them instead of Perez and then given up lesser prospects than Cameron and Rogers to complete the deal, but he didn't.  Question him all you want about anything else he does, but Luhnow has proven himself as a guru for prospect talent.  He was a huge part of keeping the aught's Cardinals talent laden and consistent post-season players.  The Astros are still flush with young talent despite the number of prospects he's dealt since mid-15 with the Gomez/Fiers deal.

[Navin R Johnson]

Going by the BA rankings.   In 1999 we gave up #61 Freddy Garcia and #87 Carlos Guilen for Randy Johnson.   In 2017 we gave up #32 Franklin Perez, NR Daz Camerron, NR Jake Rodgers

[TerryPuhl21]

Anyone who thinks this deal was an overpay is nuts. How could anyone reasonably complain about this deal? Hell, the only people that could complain is Detroit. I personally don't think they got enough. If I was Detroit, I don't make this deal unless Whitley or Tucker is part of it.

Any deal we made that included us getting money AND keeping Tucker and Whitley was highway robbery.


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[JimR]

For what little it's worth, as Bus Driver #1 this is complete highway robbery if Verlander maintains his stuff.  Perez has top of the rotation stuff but that's never a guarantee of major league success.  Cameron has everyday center fielder ability but has to hit, and that's been up and down.  Rogers has MLB right now defensive capability.  His hitting has a ways to go.  One thing is for certain.  If Luhnow thought they were can't live without prospects he wouldn't have dealt them.  He clearly see Whitley and Tucker in that category.  He could have dealt either of them instead of Perez and then given up lesser prospects than Cameron and Rogers to complete the deal, but he didn't.  Question him all you want about anything else he does, but Luhnow has proven himself as a guru for prospect talent.  He was a huge part of keeping the aught's Cardinals talent laden and consistent post-season players.  The Astros are still flush with young talent despite the number of prospects he's dealt since mid-15 with the Gomez/Fiers deal.

This is THE post and evaluation I was waiting for. Thank you.

[Ty in Tampa]

This is THE post and evaluation I was waiting for. Thank you.

Same. Thanks, #1!

[toddthebod]

We didn't give up Tucker, Whitley, Martes, Alvarez, Fisher and got an ace pitcher?  Holy Fuck this was a good deal.

In the grand scheme of it, the Astros won't miss these prospects at all. 

As for the starting rotation, I wonder if the Astros might consider using a Morton/Peacock tandem.  As a couple of the Astros writers have pointed out, both of these guys seem to have problems after going through the rotation more than two times. 

But in any event, I really don't want to see Fiers pitch anymore.  He was the best pitcher on the Astros for a while, but he has been so bad recently. 

[juliogotay]

We didn't give up Tucker, Whitley, Martes, Alvarez, Fisher and got an ace pitcher?  Holy Fuck this was a good deal.

In the grand scheme of it, the Astros won't miss these prospects at all. 

As for the starting rotation, I wonder if the Astros might consider using a Morton/Peacock tandem.  As a couple of the Astros writers have pointed out, both of these guys seem to have problems after going through the rotation more than two times. 

But in any event, I really don't want to see Fiers pitch anymore.  He was the best pitcher on the Astros for a while, but he has been so bad recently.

I like your idea about a Morton/Peacock tandem for any possible post-season. Also, re: the traded prospects; one reporter pointed out that the Astros still have prospects of equal or better projection at the positions affected by the deal.

[homer]

Who is the better catcher?

[das]

Also, re: the traded prospects; one reporter pointed out that the Astros still have prospects of equal or better projection at the positions affected by the deal.

The more you look at this trade, the better it gets.  Talk about dealing from a position of strength. 

I'm so excited I can barely focus on work.

[juliogotay]

Who is the better catcher?

that's a good question and one I asked myself. I suppose the writer was thinking Stubbs although I was higher on Rogers because he appears to be better defensively and that is paramount to me for catching. And Rogers may be a better hitter than first thought. But I keep thinking Stassi is a damn good catcher and the position was one of some strength.

[Jacksonian]

that's a good question and one I asked myself. I suppose the writer was thinking Stubbs although I was higher on Rogers because he appears to be better defensively and that is paramount to me for catching. And Rogers may be a better hitter than first thought. But I keep thinking Stassi is a damn good catcher and the position was one of some strength.

Stubbs is actually considered a very good catcher.  His hitting has taken a step down this year but there's some who think he'll rebound.

[Tonywatson]

No way was this an overpay. I'm surprised we got it for this price. These losses won't set us back in the least.


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[Fredia]

when I heard I was almost afraid to read the names on the list of those traded.

[Navin R Johnson]

 David Nuño‏Verified account @DavidNunoABC13

Verlander to start Tuesday in Seattle #Astros #ABC13

[Jose Cruz III]

when I heard I was almost afraid to read the names on the list of those traded.

Same here. But when I did, not taking anything away from the prospects dealt, I was like wow he made a great deal.

[JimR]

I hoped last night he would explain/apologize for vetoing the trade. I read he telephoned the Astros 15 min after the deadline to express his excitement to be with the team. Cannot wait to see him in an Astros uniform.

[homer]

I hoped last night he would explain/apologize for veto the trade.

It was reported that he held out till 11:59p for the Cubs to call. So I don't think he vetoed, he just waited until literally the last minute.

[JimR]

It was reported that he held out till 11:59p for the Cubs to call. So I don't think he vetoed, he just waited until literally the last minute.

Maybe so. A no was reported apparently.

[homer]

Maybe so. A no was reported apparently.

It went from yes, to he nixed it, to maybe the Astros got cold feet, and then it was done. All in a span of about 30 minutes. The most plausible explanation of the back and forth was that he just delayed it.

[BlownRanger]

I hoped last night he would explain/apologize for vetoing the trade. I read he telephoned the Astros 15 min after the deadline to express his excitement to be with the team. Cannot wait to see him in an Astros uniform.

When it comes to intensity and going about your business, Verlander has a lot in common with McCann.  Those two should mesh well.

[juliogotay]

When it comes to intensity and going about your business, Verlander has a lot in common with McCann.  Those two should mesh well.

A little more "old school" can't hurt.

[doyce7]

Don't we have to make a roster move to make room for Verlander?? When we DFA'd Diaz that made room for Maybin. None of the three we traded for Verlander were on the 40-man roster so someone else has to be traded or DFA'd. Do we DFA Hoyt?? Do we trade say.....Fiers for a low level prospect.


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Brady rodgers has been activated from the minor league DL, promoted to the majors and moved to the 60-day DL to clear a 40-man spot for verlander

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[doyce7]

Also idk if it's been said here and I missed it but the 2020 vesting option is voided. We have him through 2019

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[Andyzipp]

A little more "old school" can't hurt.

Most important question...what was his Player's Weekend nickname?

[MusicMan]

Most important question...what was his Player's Weekend nickname?

Does "That guy with Kate" fit on the jersey?


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[Jacksonian]

.......I'm assuming Peacock goes back to the bullpen and Fiers is the odd man out???

Keuchel
Verlander
McHugh
McCullers
Morton

All of this assumes McCullers comes back healthy.


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McCullers is physically healthy.  In his last rehab outing his curveball wasn't there.  His mechanics are still in need of repair.

[das]

Brady rodgers has been activated from the minor league DL, promoted to the majors and moved to the 60-day DL to clear a 40-man spot for verlander

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Nice pay raise for him.

[Andyzipp]

So what does the pitching staff look like for the playoffs?

Verlander
Keuchel
McCullers (if healthy)
Morton or McHugh???

Giles
Devenski
Peacock
Harris
Gregerson
And 2-3 of Liriano, Clippard, Fiers, Morton/McHugh, and Musgrove

[HudsonHawk]

McCullers is physically healthy.  In his last rehab outing his curveball wasn't there.  His mechanics are still in need of repair.

Anyone counting on McCullers the rest of this season is setting themselves up for disappointment.  The rotation is:

Keuchel
McHugh
Verlander
Peacock
Morton

[Andyzipp]

Anyone counting on McCullers the rest of this season is setting themselves up for disappointment.  The rotation is:

Keuchel
McHugh
Verlander
Peacock
Morton

Not disagreeing with your assessment on McCullers.  Who do you kick to the bullpen once October rolls around?

[HudsonHawk]

Not disagreeing with your assessment on McCullers.  Who do you kick to the bullpen once October rolls around?

I kick Peacock there.  I think he's a more valuable arm overall than Morton.  Hopefully they wouldn't need either of them to start, should the Astros make the postseason. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Anyone counting on McCullers the rest of this season is setting themselves up for disappointment.  The rotation is:

Keuchel
McHugh
Verlander
Peacock
Morton

I agree. That's why I'm setting myself up for a surprise!

[Bench]

There's two doubleheaders in the next 8 days, so I presume through then it will be Morton-Peacock-Fiers-Keuchel-Verlander-McCullers-McHugh-Morton-Fiers-Keuchel-Verlander-Mcullers-McHugh-Morton-Keuchel-Verlander-McCullers-McHugh

[TerryPuhl21]

When it comes to intensity and going about your business, Verlander has a lot in common with McCann.  Those two should mesh well.

I thought about this as well. That just looks like instant chemistry between those two.


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[JimR]

So what does the pitching staff look like for the playoffs?

Verlander
Keuchel
McCullers (if healthy)
Morton or McHugh???

Giles
Devenski
Peacock
Harris
Gregerson
And 2-3 of Liriano, Clippard, Fiers, Morton/McHugh, and Musgrove

McHugh will get a start. He has been good.

[austro]

McHugh will get a start. He has been good.

I just don't think McCullers is going to be able to help. I expect Keuchel, Verlander, and McHugh to be the top 3, and Morton to be the #4.

[Bench]

I just don't think McCullers is going to be able to help. I expect Keuchel, Verlander, and McHugh to be the top 3, and Morton to be the #4.

I'd still give him a chance.

[austro]

I'd still give him a chance.

Oh, he'll get his chances through September. Perhaps he'll surprise me.

[JimR]

Oh, he'll get his chances through September. Perhaps he'll surprise me.

It is there. He and Strom need to find it. He was deservedly an All Star.

[BlownRanger]

It is there. He and Strom need to find it. He was deservedly an All Star.

Might be another place where Verlander can help: getting Lance to channel those emotions in a positive way.

[JimR]

Might be another place where Verlander can help: getting Lance to channel those emotions in a positive way.

He does for the pitchers what Beltran does for the hitters. Kuechel is not a bell cow.

[geezerdonk]

I think that the Verlander trade was a fair deal - both teams got good value in needed areas.

[Mr. Happy]

I think that the Verlander trade was a fair deal - both teams got good value in needed areas.

I think that you're right. The Tigers' farm system is bereft of prospects. If they got three, that means that they have three prospects. I've seen the shit that comes through Toledo for four years now. They have almost no big league ready talent.

[Jacksonian]

Fiers is officially out of the rotation.

[JimR]

Fiers is officially out of the rotation.

What about the DH in Oakland?

[Jacksonian]

What about the DH in Oakland?

Just reporting what was in a McTag tweet.  No other details yet.

[Tonywatson]

McCullers is coming back so Peacock starts a game in DH, then likely to bullpen.


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[JimR]

McCullers is coming back so Peacock starts a game in DH, then likely to bullpen.


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Yep. I forgot Peacock.

[JimR]

Just reporting what was in a McTag tweet.  No other details yet.

Yeah, I read it on At Bat and forgot Peacock.

[BlownRanger]

McCullers is coming back so Peacock starts a game in DH, then likely to bullpen.


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They can put Peacock in the pen now.  The Thursday off-day helps.

MONDAY:  Keuchel
TUESDAY:  Verlander
WEDNESDAY:  McCullers
THURSDAY:  OFF
FRIDAY:  McHugh
SATURDAY:  Morton/Keuchel

[JimR]

I think they said Kuechel's next start is Sunday, but I may be wrong.

[BlownRanger]

I think they said Kuechel's next start is Sunday, but I may be wrong.

With all the uncertainty around McCullers, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Peacock stays in the rotation for at least another start.

[doyce7]

I think they said Kuechel's next start is Sunday, but I may be wrong.

They can put Peacock in the pen now.  The Thursday off-day helps.

MONDAY:  Keuchel
TUESDAY:  Verlander
WEDNESDAY:  McCullers
THURSDAY:  OFF
FRIDAY:  McHugh
SATURDAY:  Morton/Keuchel

Saturday's starters are Morton/Peacock

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[Navin R Johnson]

With all the uncertainty around McCullers, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Peacock stays in the rotation for at least another start.

Anyone penciling in McCullers hasn't been paying attention.  The guy has been bad for quite awhile now, including his "rehab" starts.   I have very little faith that McCullers returns to his really good form this season.   Hope Im wrong.

[JimR]

Anyone penciling in McCullers hasn't been paying attention.  The guy has been bad for quite awhile now, including his "rehab" starts.   I have very little faith that McCullers returns to his really good form this season.   Hope Im wrong.

If he'll be a decent #3 or #4, works for me.

[das]

If he'll be a decent #3 or #4, works for me.

Agree.  Morton has show enough flashes of excellence that I am happy to have McCullers spend the next 4 weeks getting in his reps and getting back on track.  Kind of like an extended spring training leading up to the playoffs.

[Navin R Johnson]

If he'll be a decent #3 or #4, works for me.

At this point I would take that in a heartbeat.  From things I have heard, his injury is mental not physical.   

[JimR]

Agree.  Morton has show enough flashes of excellence that I am happy to have McCullers spend the next 4 weeks getting in his reps and getting back on track.  Kind of like an extended spring training leading up to the playoffs.

Morton and McHugh both.

[das]

Morton and McHugh both.

You bring up a good point re: McHugh.  I've been very impressed with him since he's come back.  He seems way sharper than I would have expected with all of his time off this year.  His curve seems as sharp as ever but his FB command looks much more like '14 & '15 than it did last year.  It seems to really be setting up the deuce well.

[juliogotay]

You bring up a good point re: McHugh.  I've been very impressed with him since he's come back.  He seems way sharper than I would have expected with all of his time off this year.  His curve seems as sharp as ever but his FB command looks much more like '14 & '15 than it did last year.  It seems to really be setting up the deuce well.

McHugh has exceeded my expectations based on his performance last year when he was a roller-coaster ride. If there is a post-season for him he will be fresh. I'd be more comfortable with him if he is the 4th guy though.

[JimR]

You bring up a good point re: McHugh.  I've been very impressed with him since he's come back.  He seems way sharper than I would have expected with all of his time off this year.  His curve seems as sharp as ever but his FB command looks much more like '14 & '15 than it did last year.  It seems to really be setting up the deuce well.

and his new slider

[Duman]

Jordan Jankowski is on of this season's unsung heroes for teaching his slider to Peacock who in turn taught it to McHugh. 

[VirtualBob]

Jordan Jankowski is on of this season's unsung heroes for teaching his slider to Peacock who in turn taught it to McHugh.

And now is teaching elsewhere. (Angels, I think?)