Author Topic: Luhnow on the radio  (Read 12150 times)

HudsonHawk

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Luhnow on the radio
« on: August 07, 2017, 06:31:08 pm »
1.  Liriano deal was not Plan B.  That deal was gonna happen no matter what.
2.  Liriano acquired not to win games in August but in October.
3.  Springer "has a chance" to return this week.
4.  Correa progressing better than expected, but won't rush.
5.  Davis to get a good look this week.
6.  He's big in Guduan.
7.  Hoyt nibbles too much, but they're working on that, expecting him to be big in Postseason.

Still talking.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

JimR

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 06:56:47 pm »
Yep, Rosenthal said the plan was Liriano, Britton, and some mystery reliever who would have surprised us all.

Springer not back tomorrow? Surprised.
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austro

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 08:08:42 pm »
Springer not back tomorrow? Surprised.

Yeah, that's a little worrisome.
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 09:34:24 pm »
Yeah, that's a little worrisome.

He didn't sound that concerned, and maybe it was just his manner of speaking. But he didn't say "Springer will be active in Chicago" either. He did say George was chomping at the bit to get back out there, so I didn't get the feeling anyone in the org was alarmed.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

Duke

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2017, 07:40:18 am »
Springer looked ok when he was drenching Julia and Centeno on Sunday. 

toddthebod

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 08:21:42 am »
Springer looked fine last week when they showed him sprinting in the outfield in MMP.  I don't know what kind of quad injury Springer has, but when I pulled a quad muscle, I literally could not run at all (I could barely walk) and had to stop marathon training for a month.  So I'm not sure what is going on with him. 
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juliogotay

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 10:00:02 am »
Springer looked fine last week when they showed him sprinting in the outfield in MMP.  I don't know what kind of quad injury Springer has, but when I pulled a quad muscle, I literally could not run at all (I could barely walk) and had to stop marathon training for a month.  So I'm not sure what is going on with him.

I believe mgmnt. just being very cautious.

HudsonHawk

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 10:22:24 am »
I believe mgmnt. just being very cautious.

Luhnow said they definitely were being cautious.  He said the goal was to win games in October, not in August, and they want everyone at 100% come stretch time. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

MRaup

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 10:54:56 am »
Springer looked fine last week when they showed him sprinting in the outfield in MMP.  I don't know what kind of quad injury Springer has, but when I pulled a quad muscle, I literally could not run at all (I could barely walk) and had to stop marathon training for a month.  So I'm not sure what is going on with him.

Were you a mid twenties professional athlete that gets microscope attention every time you have a hangnail when you pulled your quad?

Odds are it's a nagging injury and not a bad pull, and they just want to make sure he's completely over it for the stretch run so they don't lose him again for 2 more weeks because he was 99 percent healthy instead of 100.
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jaklewein

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 10:57:04 am »
Luhnow said they definitely were being cautious.  He said the goal was to win games in October, not in August, and they want everyone at 100% come stretch time.

What a blessing this team has had in this regard.  The other silver lining (rather than just being able to give certain players extra time to heal) with all these injuries, is the on the job training players like Fisher, Peacock (in a starting role) and to a lesser extent White, Martes & Centeno have received.  Good for the players and the club, should a more permanent need arise.

HudsonHawk

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 11:02:14 am »
What a blessing this team has had in this regard.  The other silver lining (rather than just being able to give certain players extra time to heal) with all these injuries, is the on the job training players like Fisher, Peacock (in a starting role) and to a lesser extent White, Martes & Centeno have received.  Good for the players and the club, should a more permanent need arise.

I'm REALLY hoping that White and Centeno are not on a postseason roster, should there be a need for one.  And I like Centeno and will be glad he'll be up for September.  But if they're on the roster come October, it's because someone else is not. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

toddthebod

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 04:40:53 pm »
Were you a mid twenties professional athlete that gets microscope attention every time you have a hangnail when you pulled your quad?

Odds are it's a nagging injury and not a bad pull, and they just want to make sure he's completely over it for the stretch run so they don't lose him again for 2 more weeks because he was 99 percent healthy instead of 100.

No.  I'm just making an observation based on years of competitive running that Springer was not running last week like someone who has a serious (or even a minor) quad injury. 

But he is going to play tomorrow so its neither here nor there. 

https://twitter.com/_CBoutwell/status/894953693401010176

   
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 05:01:54 pm »
But he is going to play tomorrow so its neither here nor there. 

https://twitter.com/_CBoutwell/status/894953693401010176

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Navin R Johnson

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 05:59:11 pm »
FWIW

@alysonfooter
"Basically everyone who has talked about the Astros on @MLBNetwork today thinks Verlander to Houston makes too much sense not to do it."
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JimR

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 06:12:02 pm »
FWIW

@alysonfooter
"Basically everyone who has talked about the Astros on @MLBNetwork today thinks Verlander to Houston makes too much sense not to do it."

Come on, Jeff. Do it.
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toddthebod

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2017, 08:47:52 pm »
And anyone who is watching Keuchel pitch tonight is saying that if the Astros don't trade for Verlander, the Astros aren't going anywhere.
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austro

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2017, 08:57:27 pm »
And anyone who is watching Keuchel pitch tonight is saying that if the Astros don't trade for Verlander, the Astros aren't going anywhere.

Price is going up with every inning that Keuchel pitches.
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toddthebod

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2017, 09:01:57 pm »
100%.  Astros are now giving up top prospects and are paying for the whole contract. 
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Jose Cruz III

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 10:19:04 pm »
100%.  Astros are now giving up top prospects and are paying for the whole contract.
It's not my money so I don't care, but I don't think Lunhow will do both.
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DVauthrin

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2017, 10:31:49 pm »
It's not my money so I don't care, but I don't think Lunhow will do both.

Lunhow needs to do what it takes to get Verlander.  Right now Keuchel and McCullers are major question marks heading into October.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2017, 10:51:19 pm »
Lunhow needs to do what it takes to get Verlander.  Right now Keuchel and McCullers are major question marks heading into October.

It may not be up to Luhnow.
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2017, 10:52:52 pm »
Lunhow needs to do what it takes to get Verlander.  Right now Keuchel and McCullers are major question marks heading into October.

We're not heading into October.  It's early August.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

The Third Man

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2017, 03:33:31 am »
FWIW

@alysonfooter
"Basically everyone who has talked about the Astros on @MLBNetwork today thinks Verlander to Houston makes too much sense not to do it."

It made sense in f-ing June to pick up a starter. Hell, it made sense in the off-season to use their vaunted farm system to nab a TOR starter considering their top two pitchers were coming off injuries. Boston did.  I don't want to hear anymore of this "we tried hard" rhetoric from Crane and Luhnow. You either get the job done, or you don't. Windows can shut fast.

Fynn

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2017, 06:00:09 am »
Lunhow needs to do what it takes to get Verlander.  Right now Keuchel and McCullers are major question marks heading into October.

Name them-Verlander, Sale or whoever.  They cannot get us past the first round of playoffs (If we make it) if the staff cannot get its mojo back.  Can this happen?  Who knows.

juliogotay

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2017, 09:59:27 am »
Name them-Verlander, Sale or whoever.  They cannot get us past the first round of playoffs (If we make it) if the staff cannot get its mojo back.  Can this happen?  Who knows.

Having Verlander won't make a difference if Keuchel and McCullers don't get right.

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2017, 10:18:37 am »
Having Verlander won't make a difference if Keuchel and McCullers don't get right.

I don't have the baseball background that many here possess, but someone on Twitter remarked that Keuchel is now pitching similarly as he did in 2016.  Perhaps a nagging injury which no one is talking about?

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2017, 10:21:19 am »
I don't have the baseball background that many here possess, but someone on Twitter remarked that Keuchel is now pitching similarly as he did in 2016.  Perhaps a nagging injury which no one is talking about?

they say he is healthy.

JimR

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2017, 10:23:12 am »
It made sense in f-ing June to pick up a starter. Hell, it made sense in the off-season to use their vaunted farm system to nab a TOR starter considering their top two pitchers were coming off injuries. Boston did.  I don't want to hear anymore of this "we tried hard" rhetoric from Crane and Luhnow. You either get the job done, or you don't. Windows can shut fast.

This is bullshit 20-20 hindsight. Get a team and show me how it is done.
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mrpink

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2017, 10:45:48 am »
This is bullshit 20-20 hindsight. Get a team and show me how it is done.

In addition, Boston has a $200MM payroll.  Houston has a $124MM payroll and although Beltran and likely Gregerson will come off the books after this year healthy raises are due to Keuchel, Gattis, Springer, McHugh, Fiers, Marisnick, Giles, McCullers, and Peacock.

Luhnow will need to lean on his farm system a lot more than Boston to maintain a team as good as they have today, which is pretty fucking good considering they have a 7.5 game lead over Boston right now.

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2017, 11:31:13 am »
I love and trust Luhnow, but I think this team needs a starter so bad.  The starter can help the bullpen.  I don't know if what's wrong with Keuchel is mental or physical, but I hope it gets diagnosed and healed quickly! 

i just want them ALL to start getting healthy and the jets to power up.  I still think there is magic in this team but the potion needs a little bit of work or it could all disappear.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2017, 11:33:03 am »
It made sense in f-ing June to pick up a starter. Hell, it made sense in the off-season to use their vaunted farm system to nab a TOR starter considering their top two pitchers were coming off injuries. Boston did.  I don't want to hear anymore of this "we tried hard" rhetoric from Crane and Luhnow. You either get the job done, or you don't. Windows can shut fast.

Last year the team was 4th in the AL in runs allowed,  they replaced Fister with Morton (who has been an upgrade).   Until the injury, DK was back to 2014/2015 form.  There just weren't many FOR starters available this offseason.  Here is a list of who was signed/traded for.   

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/news/hot_stove/y2016/free_agent_tracker.jsp

LOTS of misses on that list.

Last year the Astros offense was the epitome of mediocre, with a bunch of holes in the lineup.   They replaced Castro with McCann, then replaced Gomez/Rasmus/Valbuena with Reddick/Beltran/Aoki.   This year the Astros have the best offense in baseball. and have scored almost 90 more runs than the next closest AL team.   And to add that the only player on the offense that isn't under contract next year as well isBeltran, who will likely retire.   Springer, Altuve, Reddick, Correa, Yuli, Mccan, Bregman, Fisher, Marisnick, Marwin, Gattis will all be back, unless they are traded.

2016 Record through 112 games, 57-55
2017 record through 112 games, 71-41

The net of moves since the end of the 2016 season, adding Morton, Reddick, Beltran, Aoki, McCann, is a 14+ game difference year over year to go along with an 8 game lead on the 2nd best team in the AL and a 14 game divisional lead in August.   Last year they were 9 games behind Texas at the same time, and had the 8th best record in the AL.



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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2017, 11:38:37 am »
We're not heading into October.  It's early August.

Amen.  This weeping and gnashing-of-teeth about the rotation is tiresome.  Keuchel is basically in spring training form battling mid-season hitters after his two month layoff.  He says he feels great, the front office says he is not hurt and I tend to believe them.  He'll master the bottom of the strike zone again soon enough.  He's struggling up and down right now and his down stuff, when he gets it down, has little of the tailing in and out that it typically does when he is doing well.  Just like early/mid April when he is working to rebuild his arm strength.  McHugh is looking good right now because he got some serious innings in in the minors and Morton looks like a good workhorse #3 with flashes of excellence now that he is back from the DL and has some innings under his belt.  Fiers is regressing to his mean of innings eater that gives up a poke somewhat frequently.  He was never going to be the ACE he displayed in July.  McCullers is my one real worry and I, for one, really appreciate how team management is handling him (and the rest of the staff) now, in the middle of the season with an 15 game lead, in anticipation of meaningful baseball in October.

And, just because I am thinking about it, regarding relievers, Devinski's Harris-esque sophomore slump is unsurprising.  I'm glad he is going through it now instead of in October.  He'll right the ship, just as Harris did in his 5 weeks of dead arm last year.  Hoyt and Musgrove look increasingly well-suited for long relief and, if Peacock can continue to swing back and forth and especially towards the bullpen as the starters round back into form, this could be a staff that is a force to be reckoned with in October, just as they were just two short months ago.

Verlander would be great.  Verlander is not the difference here, though.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2017, 11:40:06 am »
The point of that is, it isn't like the front office or ownership did NOTHING, like some people keep implying.   They did enough to turn the team from a mediocre team, to a team with the best record in the AL.   Could they have done more, sure, so could have any team.   There is no salary cap or limit on who all you can sign.   

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DVauthrin

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2017, 08:56:00 pm »
We're not heading into October.  It's early August.

I'm aware.  But they would benefit from having a guy like Verlander even if Keuchel and McCullers were pitching well and both healthy.  With one on the DL and one trying to recapture his pre-injury form, it would be nice to have Verlander on this team for the remainder of the season.

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DVauthrin

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2017, 08:57:12 pm »
It may not be up to Luhnow.

Yes, Crane has to agree to take on Verlander's contract and sign off on the trade, and the Tigers have to like the package of players they get in return.
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DVauthrin

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2017, 09:00:25 pm »
It made sense in f-ing June to pick up a starter. Hell, it made sense in the off-season to use their vaunted farm system to nab a TOR starter considering their top two pitchers were coming off injuries. Boston did.  I don't want to hear anymore of this "we tried hard" rhetoric from Crane and Luhnow. You either get the job done, or you don't. Windows can shut fast.

The front office has done a very good job.  The Astros do have the best record in the AL by a sizeable margin.  And from all accounts, Zach Britton was set to be an Astro until Angelos blocked the trade.
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chuck

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2017, 09:30:11 pm »
The front office has done a very good job.  The Astros do have the best record in the AL by a sizeable margin.  And from all accounts, Zach Britton was set to be an Astro until Angelos blocked the trade.

Duquette of course specifically denied that the owner killed any Britton deal. So I'll assume that the owner interference angle is nonsense and that GB arrogantly overrated his prospects.
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austro

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2017, 09:56:37 pm »
Duquette of course specifically denied that the owner killed any Britton deal. So I'll assume that the owner interference angle is nonsense and that GB arrogantly overrated his prospects.

You're welcome to do so, of course, but Angelos has a track record of doing that shit, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that he might have done so in this case. And if that were the case, it doesn't seem unusual that Duquette would deny it. We're unlikely ever to have enough information to know one way or another.

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chuck

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2017, 10:00:39 pm »
Who is GB?

Luhnow, who's a known liar. Angelos is a meddling idiot, but if Duquette is willing to go public and state conclusively that his owner did not take that deal down then I have no option other than to believe him over Luhnow.
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WVastro

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2017, 10:32:09 pm »
Luhnow, who's a known liar. Angelos is a meddling idiot, but if Duquette is willing to go public and state conclusively that his owner did not take that deal down then I have no option other than to believe him over Luhnow.

How's Luhnow a known liar? Did I miss something?

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2017, 10:36:00 pm »
Yes, Crane has to agree to take on Verlander's contract and sign off on the trade, and the Tigers have to like the package of players they get in return.

I am not ready to presume despite the talking heads that the Tigers are actually willing to deal Verlander.
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chuck

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2017, 11:19:57 pm »
How's Luhnow a known liar? Did I miss something?

For one thing,

“That’s absolutely false,” said Luhnow, who worked as a technology executive before he began his career in baseball. “I absolutely know about password hygiene and best practices. I’m certainly aware of how important passwords are, as well as of the importance of keeping them updated. A lot of my job in baseball, as it was in high tech, is to make sure that intellectual property is protected. I take that seriously and hold myself and those who work for me to a very high standard.”

Password: eckstein123

For another thing, anyone who uses the phrase "best practices" in a non-ironic way is a motherfucking dickhead.

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The Third Man

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2017, 12:07:11 am »
In addition, Boston has a $200MM payroll.  Houston has a $124MM payroll and although Beltran and likely Gregerson will come off the books after this year healthy raises are due to Keuchel, Gattis, Springer, McHugh, Fiers, Marisnick, Giles, McCullers, and Peacock.

Luhnow will need to lean on his farm system a lot more than Boston to maintain a team as good as they have today, which is pretty fucking good considering they have a 7.5 game lead over Boston right now.

The Little Payroll the Could bullshit is embarrassing.  If Crane spent too much on the team because he wanted a shiny toy so badly that he didn't carry out his due diligence in checking out the local TV contract sufficiently, then I have no sympathy. Their payrolls have been at the bottom of the league for the previous 3 years and now they are #18. They have certainly been profitable in recent years and their valuation has skyrocketed since Crane's purchasehttps://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morning_call/2016/03/astros-among-most-profitable-in-the-mlb-value.html  If they are not adding pitching because they are worried about payroll with *the best team in the AL* and a clear need to add arms, then they probably have no intention of keeping their core together when the big contracts come due. That's depressing. Maybe their budget is not why they failed at the deadline, but they still failed, at least thus far. Other contenders were after Britton and they moved on and added better pieces than we did. That's not hindsight. That's the way it is.  I don't know about you baseball Zen Buddhists around here, but I want my team to win a World Series before I die. Jeff Luhnow doesn't have such an incredible resume that he is above criticism.

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2017, 07:57:48 am »
Chuck, you have become a troll. Why? This is the question some of us are asking each other on private messages.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2017, 08:17:17 am »
Luhnow is a bullshitter and a salesman in addition to his other talents. I don't think he is patently dishonest but the nature of his job as GM requires a certain level of subterfuge. I believe that is consistent with other GMs.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2017, 11:32:17 am »


Password: eckstein123


According to an article in the WSJ yesterday, passwords containing combinations of letters, numbers, and symbols, even with mandatory changes every few months, really are not that effective at preventing hacking, according to the guy who wrote the study that caused us to all start using letters, numbers, symbols. The article advocated the use of longer phrases, so Luhnow would have better served by selecting the password, "ecksteinmyfavoritegrittypissant" or something along those lines.

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2017, 01:17:48 pm »
GB arrogantly overrated his prospects.

Where have you heard that? What is your proof?

This 'overrated' idea might have had merit if Britton would have been traded and the Astros got out bid.  But he wasn't traded and there is every indication the Astros had be best offer for Britton. 
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2017, 01:18:15 pm »
Making assumptions about what happened at the trade deadline is just a guessing game.  For every report that said Angelos torpedoed a Britton deal, there was another guy with sources that say Baltimore's front office found the Astros offer(s) woefully inadequate.  Those reports can't both be true, but they could both be bullshit.

Maybe Luhnow did offer some packages that included a couple from the Tucker/Fisher/Martes/Whitley/Perez group (not just talking the Britton deal here) and was still rejected.  We don't know, but I have to believe if he had, some deal would have been consummated.  I think it's most likely true that Luhnow is attached to his top-end prospects to a greater level than most of us would like, especially at this deadline, but he's the GM, and that's his prerogative.  This regime has been very shrewd in building this team, and to now declare Luhnow a fool is ridiculous.  However, it's equally shortsighted to declare all criticism of his actions at this trade deadline to be uninformed gibberish.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2017, 04:47:53 pm »
Reddick weighs in on the teams disappointment over the lack of deadline moves

https://twitter.com/MLBNetworkRadio/status/895730343382102016
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2017, 04:56:11 pm »
Of course I agree with his ultimate conclusion that they just need to play, but I just don't get this initial mindset.  You're second in the league in wins and all you really want out of the regular season is a chance to compete i the playoffs, preferably not as a wildcard, and to be healthy.  If your GM has put you in that position, he has done his job, now it is up to you to take advantage of that opportunity.

I get all the arguments that so and so improves the team chances, but I just can't get past the basic point that if you are a player on this team, you are imminently equipped to win every post season game you play.  Just do it. 

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2017, 04:57:41 pm »
Where have you heard that? What is your proof?

This 'overrated' idea might have had merit if Britton would have been traded and the Astros got out bid.  But he wasn't traded and there is every indication the Astros had be best offer for Britton.

This. Every national baseball reporter said the same thing: Baltimore and Houston had a deal for Britton, and Angelos said no.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2017, 05:00:34 pm »
This. Every national baseball reporter said the same thing: Baltimore and Houston had a deal for Britton, and Angelos said no.

That narrative has changed a bit.

***Warning Jon Heyman Ahead***

----------------------
Their lack of movement caused them to make a lot of post-deadline “loser” lists, including here (which they surely don’t care about), and triggered an outcry in their clubhouse, where Keuchel said “disappointment would be an understatement” (which they may not care all that much about, either). People around the team say they will get someone in the waiver trading period, though almost surely not someone of the stature of a Zach Britton, the Orioles star they thought they had acquired before the deadline.

The Orioles canceled that trade, and while Astros owner Jim Crane suggested in a Houston radio interview that the order came from his Orioles counterpart (though Crane didn’t mention the team or owner, we know they had an agreement for a Britton trade), other sources suggest that at least one Astros player going to Baltimore didn’t pass Baltimore’s notoriously rigorous medical standard. Angelos has only sold once in his reign (2000, when the Orioles traded Will Clark and several others) and even Orioles people can’t swear he would have gone through a trade for Britton even if the Astros players all had passed the medical inspection (they admit Angelos wasn’t exactly anxious to trade Britton; one Orioles person said the day before the deadline he figured there was a 25 percent chance they’d hold onto Britton, and ultimately they did).

The Astros tried to rework the deal, and the Orioles rebuffed the new attempts, leading to Crane’s conclusion. The Indians also were “in deep” on Britton, and the Dodgers were in the mix as well, but neither of those teams got to the finish line, either. While GM Dan Duquette has a history of deal-making (Pedro Martinez twice, and the famed Jason Varitek-Derek Lowe deal; this year Tim Beckham came late in a deal to Baltimore), the reality is that between the Orioles doctor and the owner, it probably isn’t easy to make a major deadline deal with them, especially when they’re in that middle ground between buyer and seller. “If you’re dealing with the Orioles, you better have a backup plan,” one rival GM said.
----------------------------

https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/astros/inside-baseball-astros-cautious-ways-will-hurt-october-chances/

Also of note from the same article.

-----------------------------------
The Astros also tried for Justin Wilson, though apparently not very hard. None of their very top prospects were offered in that deal, either, and word is that the package from the Cubs including third baseman Jeimer Candelario was “by far” the best deal on the table.

Another rival GM said the Astros kept trying to make A.J. Reed, who’s DHing some in Triple-A, or Colin Moran, a third baseman who’s solid but lacks power, as the centerpiece of trades for impact pieces. That just wasn’t going to happen.

The Astros, who long suspected the Rangers would be less than anxious to send Yu Darvish in-state and in-division, it turns out didn’t try very hard at all for Darvish, either, causing the Rangers, who determined a couple days before the deadline they needed to deal Darvish, to send him to the Dodgers, and turning them from a strong World Series favorite into a prohibitive one. The Dodgers’ offer, once again, was said be “easily” the best one to be had. Yet, one rival exec wonders why Houston didn’t grab Darvish.

“They could have beaten what the Dodgers offer easily without touching their top four guys,” one rival exec said. “He should be an Astro.”

The Astros never seemed to be in on Sonny Gray (they weren’t about to trade three of their best prospects!), and didn’t land Tony Watson (they may have been preoccupied with Britton at that point), either, and in the end were left with only Liriano, a talented lefty who’s been misfiring a lot this year. Kind of like the Astros did at the deadline.


------------------------------------------

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2017, 05:59:04 pm »
I do not care what any pundit or executive says, I did not want to see Yu Darvish in an Astros uni.

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2017, 06:04:35 pm »
I do not care what any pundit or executive says, I did not want to see Yu Darvish in an Astros uni.

Nor did I,
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2017, 06:12:43 pm »
Reddick weighs in on the teams disappointment over the lack of deadline moves

https://twitter.com/MLBNetworkRadio/status/895730343382102016

And I'm disappointed in those comments from Reddick. Lost a lot of respect for he and Keuchel.

And Reddick is Exhibit A that deadline deals don't always pan out.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 06:32:15 pm by Nate Colbert »

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2017, 06:20:14 pm »
That Angelos killed the deal was and is speculation based on what Luhnow and Crane implied after the deadline. Since then Duquette has come out and said unprovoked and in no uncertain terms that his owner did not step on any deal.

So I suppose you can believe whatever you like.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2017, 06:59:13 pm »
I'm not disappointed that they feel that way but I certainly am that they said it to the media.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2017, 07:33:20 pm »
And I'm disappointed in those comments from Reddick. Lost a lot of respect for he and Keuchel.

And Reddick is Exhibit A that deadline deals don't always pan out.

Exactly.  Their job is not to mind the daily business of the front office.  They get paid a lot of money to do one thing: play. Plus, what good does whining about trade deadline deals that were/were not made?!?

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2017, 09:12:18 pm »
Reddick weighs in on the teams disappointment over the lack of deadline moves

https://twitter.com/MLBNetworkRadio/status/895730343382102016

I wonder if he told those guys he has nothing against that he'd rather they were replaced.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2017, 10:28:12 pm »
I wonder if he told those guys he has nothing against that he'd rather they were replaced.

and Liriano.

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2017, 11:02:29 pm »
That Angelos killed the deal was and is speculation based on what Luhnow and Crane implied after the deadline. Since then Duquette has come out and said unprovoked and in no uncertain terms that his owner did not step on any deal.

So I suppose you can believe whatever you like.

But we aren't as smart as someone who doesn't believe Luhnow?? 
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2017, 11:36:58 pm »
That Angelos killed the deal was and is speculation based on what Luhnow and Crane implied after the deadline. Since then Duquette has come out and said unprovoked and in no uncertain terms that his owner did not step on any deal.

So I suppose you can believe whatever you like.

Totally untrue, but it fits your agenda.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #62 on: August 11, 2017, 07:33:45 am »
But we aren't as smart as someone who doesn't believe Luhnow??

BG, we live in Houston and are actual Astros fans. You know that makes us hopelessly stupid necks.


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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #63 on: August 11, 2017, 08:41:42 am »
I'm not disappointed that they feel that way but I certainly am that they said it to the media.

I would have preferred they toe the company line, but it's worth noting that neither Keuchel nor Reddick said "Hey, come here.  There's something I want to get off my chest!".  Both were being interviewed and were asked about it.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #64 on: August 11, 2017, 08:45:29 am »
I would have preferred they toe the company line, but it's worth noting that neither Keuchel nor Reddick said "Hey, come here.  There's something I want to get off my chest!".  Both were being interviewed and were asked about it.

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #65 on: August 11, 2017, 08:52:32 am »
these last few games have just been sad and disturbing
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #66 on: August 11, 2017, 10:07:52 am »
And I'm disappointed in those comments from Reddick. Lost a lot of respect for he and Keuchel.
I'm not disappointed that they feel that way but I certainly am that they said it to the media.

I don't understand this sentiment.  Both of their comments were perfectly reasonable and express the same frustration that everyone feels, whether players, front office, or fans. They weren't critical of any individual person (other than Luhnow I guess, by implication).  And Reddick's point was basically "yeah, that's a bummer, but get over it and win some games."

It's not even a matter of having the right to answer a question truthfully.  That can be a cover for a lot of obnoxiousness, but their comments were perfectly in line with the situation. 
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #67 on: August 11, 2017, 10:11:27 am »
I don't understand this sentiment.  Both of their comments were perfectly reasonable and express the same frustration that everyone feels, whether players, front office, or fans. They weren't critical of any individual person (other than Luhnow I guess, by implication).  And Reddick's point was basically "yeah, that's a bummer, but get over it and win some games."

It's not even a matter of having the right to answer a question truthfully.  That can be a cover for a lot of obnoxiousness, but their comments were perfectly in line with the situation.

They weren't perfectly reasonable to express to the public.  Every new player added would replace one already there.  They basically said to everyone there are players on this team right now who aren't championship caliber.  That may be true, but we don't work with them EVERY DAY.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #68 on: August 11, 2017, 10:16:48 am »
They weren't perfectly reasonable to express to the public.  Every new player added would replace one already there.  They basically said to everyone there are players on this team right now who aren't championship caliber.  That may be true, but we don't work with them EVERY DAY.

Except for the fact that they didn't talk about or even hint at any particular player. They were talking about the overall team.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #69 on: August 11, 2017, 10:21:28 am »
Except for the fact that they didn't talk about or even hint at any particular player. They were talking about the overall team.

They were disappointed no trades were made.  They wanted better players on the team.  The rosters are fixed at 25.  They can't just add players.  You want new players then you want to get rid of current players.  There aren't any other options.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #70 on: August 11, 2017, 10:23:26 am »
Except for the fact that they didn't talk about or even hint at any particular player. They were talking about the overall team.

An overall team that is made up of individual players.  Some of who are "championship calibre" and some of who are not.  Anyone that has played on any team sport understands this.  Or, at least, should.  Their comments do nothing to build team unity and likely do a fair amount to tear it down.  Maybe not overtly and maybe not with the superstars but likely yes with the fringe players that are the razor thin separation between a championship team and one that is not.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2017, 10:51:31 am »
My concern is that a team that was on a historic win pace and had the best record in the AL by a wide margin doesn't think it's good enough to win the pennant and has started to vent to the media. Why would Dallas not say something to the effect of "I know that I will give my ball club every chance to win a critical game, as will Lance, Mike, Colin .  .  . we have plenty of guys who can go out there and win you a game. Plus, our offense mashes. They can hit anyone." This is just an odd example of your typical sports psychology and media cliches gone wrong.


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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2017, 10:52:01 am »
Quote
Zachary Levine‏ @zacharylevine  11m11 minutes ago
More
 The Astros' champagne celebration will be the first one where you ever hear "the only people who believed in us were outside this room."

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2017, 11:05:17 am »
I'm really glad A.J. doesn't have to be accountable for any of the recent shitness. According to the posters of OWA, it's all on the players lack of ability and the liar in the front office.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2017, 11:06:21 am »
I'm really glad A.J. doesn't have to be accountable for any of the recent shitness. According to the posters of OWA, it's all on the players lack of ability and the liar in the front office.

What, specifically, do you blame on Hinch?
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #75 on: August 11, 2017, 11:15:57 am »
An overall team that is made up of individual players.  Some of who are "championship calibre" and some of who are not.  Anyone that has played on any team sport understands this.  Or, at least, should.  Their comments do nothing to build team unity and likely do a fair amount to tear it down.  Maybe not overtly and maybe not with the superstars but likely yes with the fringe players that are the razor thin separation between a championship team and one that is not.

The individual players on the 25 man roster change all the time.  I think everyone on the roster is aware of that. 
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #76 on: August 11, 2017, 11:23:53 am »
What, specifically, do you blame on Hinch?
He's a poor bridge player or builder or something more nebulous. I don't blame anyone. It's a group effort. I was just being a wise ass at the absurdity of needing to find fault or blame, they just need to get their mojo back. Hell, they can blame me if that helps them get on with their careers.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #77 on: August 11, 2017, 11:25:17 am »
So much of the early success defied odds. Nature has a way of balancing things out.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #78 on: August 11, 2017, 11:27:08 am »
I wonder if Luhnow is disappointed in Kuechel's last start and in Reddick's outfield play last night?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 11:28:45 am by geezerdonk »
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #79 on: August 11, 2017, 12:39:22 pm »
I wonder if Luhnow is disappointed in Kuechel's last start and in Reddick's outfield play last night?

I think the Dodgers' GM should come out and say publicly what a disappointment Reddick was after they acquired him at the trade deadline last season.

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2017, 12:48:19 pm »
I don't understand this sentiment.  Both of their comments were perfectly reasonable and express the same frustration that everyone feels, whether players, front office, or fans. They weren't critical of any individual person (other than Luhnow I guess, by implication).  And Reddick's point was basically "yeah, that's a bummer, but get over it and win some games."

It's not even a matter of having the right to answer a question truthfully.  That can be a cover for a lot of obnoxiousness, but their comments were perfectly in line with the situation. 

I'm generally not a fan of players airing inter-team grievances in a public forum. I find it immature and an indication of the mental make-up they bring to many situations.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2017, 01:59:07 pm »
He's a poor bridge player

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2017, 02:01:37 pm »
I'm really glad A.J. doesn't have to be accountable for any of the recent shitness. According to the posters of OWA, it's all on the players lack of ability and the liar in the front office.

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #83 on: August 11, 2017, 02:05:04 pm »
I don't understand this sentiment.  Both of their comments were perfectly reasonable and express the same frustration that everyone feels, whether players, front office, or fans. They weren't critical of any individual person (other than Luhnow I guess, by implication).  And Reddick's point was basically "yeah, that's a bummer, but get over it and win some games."

It's not even a matter of having the right to answer a question truthfully.  That can be a cover for a lot of obnoxiousness, but their comments were perfectly in line with the situation.

They can think and feel and talk or bitch among themselves all they want. I was disappointed too. They should NEVER air that stuff to the media. Never.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #84 on: August 11, 2017, 02:08:03 pm »
BG, we live in Houston and are actual Astros fans. You know that makes us hopelessly stupid necks.


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and we actually want to team to win. We do not laugh our asses off when things go badly. We are not rooting for the team to lose so management will look bad. We are lackeys, apparently.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #85 on: August 11, 2017, 02:33:24 pm »
and we actually want to team to win. We do not laugh our asses off when things go badly. We are not rooting for the team to lose so management will look bad. We are lackeys, apparently.

I am proudly a Luhnow lackey. Let's go, Astros!!!
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #86 on: August 11, 2017, 03:30:29 pm »
Totally untrue, but it fits your agenda.

I realize that the outright rejection of observable, measurable, empirically provable reality is currently fashionable in some circles, but I'm not willing to entertain it in the context of discussions in which I'm involved.

Quote
Duquette also refuted claims that team owner Peter Angelos vetoed a deal that the Houston Astros had in place for Britton.

"That's not true, there were a number of issues with that deal," Duquette offered without giving many details, while adding that "whoever is putting that story line out; that's not accurate."

https://www.thescore.com/news/1344830

Or you could listen to him say the same thing here.

You of course are welcome to any opinions you like, regardless of how embarrassingly self-contradictory they may be. And clearly it follows that you may (not unreasonably) conclude that Duquette is simply lying. But what we have to work with is implication from one party and a public statement from another party. My own inclination is to believe the statement over the implication. It could be that Luhnow didn't make an attractive enough offer or it could be that the Orioles' team doctor found an alarming ingrown hair in someone's beard, you know, I have no idea. Or it could be that Duquette is lying. But everything I said is provably true and to suggest otherwise betrays, I'm sorry to say, an agenda of your own.

As for my own agenda, of course I don't have one. I gather information and try to understand what it means. Some of the information that I have and has been shared with the board here gives ample evidence as to why Astros players would not like or trust Luhnow. Many of you have chosen to assign that information a low value. And maybe that's wise if in fact there is inevitably management/labor friction in every clubhouse across the league. I don't know that there is and I suspect that that's not always the case but I don't know. What I do know is that it IS the case with the Astros, and if you are trying to understand what the team is doing it would seem foolish to ignore.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #87 on: August 11, 2017, 03:50:53 pm »
the astros luck will turn. I just found a Dereck Bell card. whew that was close and makes about a much sense as some of this stuff does.  (Of cousre there are a few who are always on point)
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #88 on: August 11, 2017, 07:31:46 pm »
Maybe I have low expectations after Purpura and Wade, but I think Luhnow is an excellent GM.  He is not without flaws, but there is not a perfect GM out there.

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #89 on: August 12, 2017, 03:33:41 pm »
First post in the forum gang. I've been a lurker for a while but thought I would finally jump on in.
I've been a huge fan of Luhnow's and I think he is a great GM. I was disappointed as most on here when we did nothing at July 31st. Jeff has been so good that I find it really hard to believe he could screw things up this badly. I heard him say many times going as far back as spring training, that while they didn't want to overpay for a player at that time, they would do what was necessary to get them where they wanted to go. I've been trying to reconcile that statement  with what happened at the deadline. Here is the only thing that makes sense to me.

The brass had already decided that Verlander was the only starting pitcher they want. He's a power arm with plenty of postseason experience which they want and he is controllable. The problem with trading for him at the deadline however is that you don't know for sure if you have a real shot at the title because health wise your staff is a mess. No sense in giving up top talent if you are not sure about your top three pitchers. Verlander can't win it by himself. A gamble is made that Verlander, because of his massive contract, will clear waivers and can be had in August if at least two of Keuchel, McHugh and McCullers are pitching well in mid to late August. The decision is made to focus on relievers at the deadline. Teams are told that "these six or seven guys are unavailable" because the brass knows some of them will be needed to swing the Verlander deal. As a result, we were unable to land a big reliever. The focus now is getting at least two of our big three pitching well before end of the month. I'm hoping that if we rebound Verlander will be ours at months end.

This is the only thing that makes any sense to me.


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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2017, 03:39:17 pm »
First post in the forum gang. I've been a lurker for a while but thought I would finally jump on in.
I've been a huge fan of Luhnow's and I think he is a great GM. I was disappointed as most on here when we did nothing at July 31st. Jeff has been so good that I find it really hard to believe he could screw things up this badly. I heard him say many times going as far back as spring training, that while they didn't want to overpay for a player at that time, they would do what was necessary to get them where they wanted to go. I've been trying to reconcile that statement  with what happened at the deadline. Here is the only thing that makes sense to me.

The brass had already decided that Verlander was the only starting pitcher they want. He's a power arm with plenty of postseason experience which they want and he is controllable. The problem with trading for him at the deadline however is that you don't know for sure if you have a real shot at the title because health wise your staff is a mess. No sense in giving up top talent if you are not sure about your top three pitchers. Verlander can't win it by himself. A gamble is made that Verlander, because of his massive contract, will clear waivers and can be had in August if at least two of Keuchel, McHugh and McCullers are pitching well in mid to late August. The decision is made to focus on relievers at the deadline. Teams are told that "these six or seven guys are unavailable" because the brass knows some of them will be needed to swing the Verlander deal. As a result, we were unable to land a big reliever. The focus now is getting at least two of our big three pitching well before end of the month. I'm hoping that if we rebound Verlander will be ours at months end.

This is the only thing that makes any sense to me.


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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2017, 04:02:42 pm »
Me, too. Makes a lot of sense.

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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #92 on: August 12, 2017, 04:16:59 pm »
First post in the forum gang. I've been a lurker for a while but thought I would finally jump on in.
I've been a huge fan of Luhnow's and I think he is a great GM. I was disappointed as most on here when we did nothing at July 31st. Jeff has been so good that I find it really hard to believe he could screw things up this badly. I heard him say many times going as far back as spring training, that while they didn't want to overpay for a player at that time, they would do what was necessary to get them where they wanted to go. I've been trying to reconcile that statement  with what happened at the deadline. Here is the only thing that makes sense to me.

The brass had already decided that Verlander was the only starting pitcher they want. He's a power arm with plenty of postseason experience which they want and he is controllable. The problem with trading for him at the deadline however is that you don't know for sure if you have a real shot at the title because health wise your staff is a mess. No sense in giving up top talent if you are not sure about your top three pitchers. Verlander can't win it by himself. A gamble is made that Verlander, because of his massive contract, will clear waivers and can be had in August if at least two of Keuchel, McHugh and McCullers are pitching well in mid to late August. The decision is made to focus on relievers at the deadline. Teams are told that "these six or seven guys are unavailable" because the brass knows some of them will be needed to swing the Verlander deal. As a result, we were unable to land a big reliever. The focus now is getting at least two of our big three pitching well before end of the month. I'm hoping that if we rebound Verlander will be ours at months end.

This is the only thing that makes any sense to me.


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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #93 on: August 12, 2017, 05:59:24 pm »
Well thought out.  Thank you.
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Re: Luhnow on the radio
« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2017, 11:04:48 am »
First post in the forum gang. I've been a lurker for a while but thought I would finally jump on in.
I've been a huge fan of Luhnow's and I think he is a great GM. I was disappointed as most on here when we did nothing at July 31st. Jeff has been so good that I find it really hard to believe he could screw things up this badly. I heard him say many times going as far back as spring training, that while they didn't want to overpay for a player at that time, they would do what was necessary to get them where they wanted to go. I've been trying to reconcile that statement  with what happened at the deadline. Here is the only thing that makes sense to me.

The brass had already decided that Verlander was the only starting pitcher they want. He's a power arm with plenty of postseason experience which they want and he is controllable. The problem with trading for him at the deadline however is that you don't know for sure if you have a real shot at the title because health wise your staff is a mess. No sense in giving up top talent if you are not sure about your top three pitchers. Verlander can't win it by himself. A gamble is made that Verlander, because of his massive contract, will clear waivers and can be had in August if at least two of Keuchel, McHugh and McCullers are pitching well in mid to late August. The decision is made to focus on relievers at the deadline. Teams are told that "these six or seven guys are unavailable" because the brass knows some of them will be needed to swing the Verlander deal. As a result, we were unable to land a big reliever. The focus now is getting at least two of our big three pitching well before end of the month. I'm hoping that if we rebound Verlander will be ours at months end.

This is the only thing that makes any sense to me.

I hope you are right, but at this point Luhnow should have a good pulse on the state of the clubhouse, and pull the trigger on a Verlander deal now to give the team a spark.  The players need to get their heads out of their ass and get over it too, but it's not that hard to see their perspective.  They feel like they have a real shot at winning the World Series and the only move their GM makes is to trade a piece from the MLB roster that was performing well in his role to acquire a SP that was struggling but is tough on lefties and turn him into a lefty specialist, even though he has been a starter the vast majority of his career.  And then they bring up a top prospect to replace Aoki and basically give him a starting role(though injuries forced their hand in this regard). 

You don't sit in the Astros position now and say, well darn our pitching isn't good enough to win in October, so we'll just wave the white flag.  That's how you lose the clubhouse.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 11:09:23 am by DVauthrin »
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