Trade Deadline 2017

[Nate Colbert]

Yeah, premature as hell and highly speculative as these kinds of articles usually are, but Joel Sherman of the NY Post with his thesis as to why the trade deadline deals may occur earlier than usual this year given the number of starting pitchers likely to be available (and he's not the first national writer I've read that is making the case for a possible glut in the starting pitcher market at the deadline). The lack of high draft pick compensation for high revenue teams under the new labor deal may be a contributing factor to the surplus.

The list of names thrown out by Sherman includes a lot of the usual suspects but some others that haven't been mentioned as much as possible trade bait  (a number of these are dependent on whether their respective teams remain in or continue to be out of contention):

Alex Cobb
Chris Archer
Jake Odorizzi
Ervin Santana
Hector Santiago
Justin Verlander
Jason Vargas
Ian Kennedy*
Jose Quintana
Derek Holland
Miguel Gonzalez
Sonny Gray
Jeremy Hellickson
Gerrit Cole
Ivan Nova
Zack Greinke
Johnny Cueto
Matt Moore
Jeff Samardzija
Marco Estrada
J.A. Happ*
Yu Darvish
Martin Perez

*if healthy

Again, you can pick apart the likelihood of certain of these names to be traded but the point of the article (and others that I've seen) is that the trade deadline market seems to be trending in the favor of buyers with a surplus of starting pitchers available.

[AtascAstro]

Lunhow was asked about earlier than normal trade activity on the radio earlier this week.  He seemed pretty skeptical.  Both buyers and sellers tend to want to get an idea of what the full market is before pulling the trigger.  He did add that everybody has a general feel for what is available and what it would cost.  He said something like "they always ask for the same guy" in terms of prospects.

[Nate Colbert]

Say, I seem to recall another national columnist saying the same thing recently...

"The Astros are doing work on Gerrit Cole as a potential trade target, sources say, though of course the Pirates could easily hold onto him since he’s got two more years to go to free agency. The Astros have been the best team in baseball, and their starting pitching has been very good, but one more starter could really out them in good stead, and they seem to like Cole. Their pursuit of Jose Quintana has gotten the most attention, but they should have a few choices in this trading season, with Alex Cobb, Ervin Santana and possibly others expected to be on the block, as well."

Heyman

[MusicMan]

At this point, I am as much a "national columnist" as Heyman.


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[Nate Colbert]

At this point, I am as much a "national columnist" as Heyman.

Someone is paying him to write. These days, that qualifies.

[Jacksonian]

An interesting article on the changes to the CBA and how that could affect FA strategy and trade deadline machinations.

[Nate Colbert]

Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN  57 minutes ago
Padres recently reaffirmed to other teams that they continue to be open for business; primary guy on the table is LH reliever Brad Hand.

[Nate Colbert]

Checking in on Quintana: popped for 8 runs in 4.1 IP in Arizona tonight. 4.82 ERA for the season.

[Nate Colbert]

If the Royals decide to blow it up, MLB.com columnist Mark Feinsand thinks an Eric Hosmer deal to the Astros would be just swell.

[Waldo]

If the Royals decide to blow it up, MLB.com columnist Mark Feinsand thinks an Eric Hosmer deal to the Astros would be just swell.

That reads like a columnist that hasn't really followed the Astros at all this season.

[Reuben]

That reads like a columnist that hasn't really followed the Astros at all this season.

Exactly. If the Astros did decide to reduce Yuli's playing time, the obvious choice would be Marwin to get those ABs. As things stand right now, a bat is the absolute last thing they need.

[juliogotay]

If the Royals decide to blow it up, MLB.com columnist Mark Feinsand thinks an Eric Hosmer deal to the Astros would be just swell.

I would think Vargas is the one of interest from that list. Luhnow will surprise sometimes though.

[hostros7]

That reads like a columnist that hasn't really followed the Astros at all this season.

I wouldn't describe a lineup that regularly features Reddick, McCann, Marwin, Beltran, and Aoki as "right hand-heavy."

[Navin R Johnson]

Hosmer would be nice, but that means you are dropping/trading 1 of Yuli or Marwin or Aoki.   I can't imagine getting rid of Marwin

Would something like Yuli or Aoki and some combo of the AAA guys do it, Reed or P Tucker or Kemp or Moran?

[juliogotay]

Hosmer would be nice, but that means you are dropping/trading 1 of Yuli or Marwin or Aoki.   I can't imagine getting rid of Marwin

Would something like Yuli or Aoki and some combo of the AAA guys do it, Reed or P Tucker or Kemp or Moran?

If I'm KC I ask for Reed, Moran and Fisher because they will lose FAs at those positions. Of course I'd ask for Tucker and Martes first but after that doesn't work you need to fill 1B, 3B and CF. I would think they would want to go with youth since they aren't willing/able to keep veterans.

[BlownRanger]

Hosmer would be nice, but that means you are dropping/trading 1 of Yuli or Marwin or Aoki.   I can't imagine getting rid of Marwin

Would something like Yuli or Aoki and some combo of the AAA guys do it, Reed or P Tucker or Kemp or Moran?

I think you're grossly overvaluing those Astros assets you mentioned.  Hosmer might not be quite as expensive as a front line starter, but the Royals would have no interest in Aoki, Preston Tucker, Kemp, or Moran.

[jbm]

I'm not advocating anything, as this lineup is rolling, but I consider Hosmer to be a special player.  One very tough out in big situations.  You could always free up room by dealing someone for a starting pitcher.

ETA:  Just looked his postseason stats, and his production doesn't justify my admiration.

[JimR]

Hosmer would be nice, but that means you are dropping/trading 1 of Yuli or Marwin or Aoki.   I can't imagine getting rid of Marwin

Would something like Yuli or Aoki and some combo of the AAA guys do it, Reed or P Tucker or Kemp or Moran?

NO. Do not break up this team. We need pitching, not Hosmer. 36-16. Something must be working.

[WVastro]

NO. Do not break up this team. We need pitching, not Hosmer. 36-16. Something must be working.

Agreed! Yuli and Aoki are a big part of the personality of this team. I just want to see Cole or Archer.

[Navin R Johnson]

Agree with the sentiment to not break up the team, or mess with chemistry.   Hosmer is interesting though, and would keep him away from other playoff teams.

It is crazy to think that every Astro positional player is under contract/club control through next year, with some guys knocking on the doors in the minors, specifically Derek Fisher who is tearing it up at AAA.

[MusicMan]

Agree with the sentiment to not break up the team, or mess with chemistry.   Hosmer is interesting though, and would keep him away from other playoff teams.

It is crazy to think that every Astro positional player is under contract/club control through next year, with some guys knocking on the doors in the minors, specifically Derek Fisher who is tearing it up at AAA.

Beltran? I thought he was on a one year deal.


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[doyce7]

Beltran? I thought he was on a one year deal.


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Think year two is an option year but wether it is team or player I don't know

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[doyce7]

Any trade that isn't for a starting pitcher or a veteran left handed reliever will be incredibly confusing for me. Just doesn't make sense. Position player wise this team is stout. They have a guy for every job and it works.

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[Nate Colbert]

Beltran? I thought he was on a one year deal.

Think year two is an option year but wether it is team or player I don't know

No option. 1-year deal only.

[Duman]

Beltran? I thought he was on a one year deal.


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1 year but full no trade

[doyce7]

Think year two is an option year but wether it is team or player I don't know

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No option. 1-year deal only.

My memory isn't what I thought it was. Thanks for keeping me straight, Nate.

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[Navin R Johnson]

My bad, I could have sworn Beltran was on a 2 year deal.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/210177094/astros-carlos-beltran-finalize-1-year-deal/

[Reuben]

Any trade that isn't for a starting pitcher or a veteran left handed reliever will be incredibly confusing for me. Just doesn't make sense. Position player wise this team is stout. They have a guy for every job and it works.

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They have a guy for every starting job plus 3 bench guys in Marwin, Gattis and Marisnick who all have very good cases to deserve starting gigs.

[JimR]

Agree with the sentiment to not break up the team, or mess with chemistry.   Hosmer is interesting though, and would keep him away from other playoff teams.

It is crazy to think that every Astro positional player is under contract/club control through next year, with some guys knocking on the doors in the minors, specifically Derek Fisher who is tearing it up at AAA.

Neither is a reason to trade for him. A bat/1B is not a position of need.

[moriartp]

Anyone think there is any chance the Rangers would deal Darvish within the division?

[JimR]

Anyone think there is any chance the Rangers would deal Darvish within the division?

Is your insanity temporary or permanent?

[MusicMan]

Anyone think there is any chance the Rangers would deal Darvish within the division?

Hi, do you think the Angels would trade us Trout and some prospects for Marisnick? I'll hang up and listen.

[juliogotay]

Is your insanity temporary or permanent?

Not now, of course, but if they are like 15 games out at the trade deadline they may if it was their best offer. He is a FA after this season. Why not? However, if I'm Luhnow I don't deal with the Rangers. I would hate the idea of seeing Tucker or someone Astros drafted the next 6 or more years help them get better.

[BudGirl]

In Luhnow I trust.  If he gets the right deal, they'll pull the trigger.  But, I agree with Doyce, the team needs a pitcher and my preference is a starter.

[Fredia]

isnt trout hurt

[juliogotay]

isnt trout hurt

Yes. Just had surgery on thumb.

[BizidyDizidy]

Yes. Just had surgery on thumb.

QUICK, CANCEL THE TRADE!

[Nate Colbert]

Nothing particularly earthshaking here, but Rosenthal sizes up the current state of the starting pitcher market.

[VirtualBob]

Nothing particularly earthshaking here, but Rosenthal sizes up the current state of the starting pitcher market.

Good, concise summary. Thanks.

[Jacksonian]

Nothing particularly earthshaking here, but Rosenthal sizes up the current state of the starting pitcher market.

Considering the current standings if Luhnow gets a deal done early Jaime Garcia, I think, is an intriguing possibility.

[juliogotay]

Considering the current standings if Luhnow gets a deal done early Jaime Garcia, I think, is an intriguing possibility.

Garcia has been pretty good when healthy. That's a concern to me though. Reminds me of picking up Kazmir.

[Jacksonian]

Garcia has been pretty good when healthy. That's a concern to me though. Reminds me of picking up Kazmir.

IIRC Kazmir had a history of fading down the stretch.  Either way Luhnow's said he'd rather wait it out than deal early.  With the big lead he has some luxury to do so.

[JimR]

IIRC Kazmir had a history of fading down the stretch.  Either way Luhnow's said he'd rather wait it out than deal early.  With the big lead he has some luxury to do so.

He said that before 5 SPs went down at once.

[BudGirl]

I think if Luhnow gets a dealing he likes, that trigger is getting pulled regardless of when in the season it is. 

[Mr. Happy]

I think if Luhnow gets a dealing he likes, that trigger is getting pulled regardless of when in the season it is.

Spot on. +1

[JimR]

Bleacher Report says Astros and As are "mutually interested" in a Sonny Gray trade.

[moriartp]

Bleacher Report says Astros and As are "mutually interested" in a Sonny Gray trade.

His ERA this year isn't great, but looking a little deeper I think he is really rebounding after his crap '16. He's throwing his fastball slightly harder but less often, throwing a lot more changeups instead. He's getting strike one more often than ever. He's throwing fewer pitches in the zone but getting more swings when he goes outside. K's are up, walks are down. And as for the nerd stats, his FIP and DRA are both substantially lower than his ERA.

Beane has also hosed himself on some big deals in recent years, so maybe Luhnow can get this one done for less than we'd think.

[doyce7]

Bleacher Report says Astros and As are "mutually interested" in a Sonny Gray trade.

Gray is a good pitcher but he scares the shit out of me. I wouldn't give up top guys for him

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[JimR]

Gray is a good pitcher but he scares the shit out of me. I wouldn't give up top guys for him

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Nor would i

[juliogotay]

Is this report is true from early this year Luhnow would deal Martes and Tucker.  https://www.draysbay.com/2017/1/5/14177084/mlb-trade-rumors-rays-chris-archer-houston-astros

[JimR]

Is this report is true from early this year Luhnow would deal Martes and Tucker.  https://www.draysbay.com/2017/1/5/14177084/mlb-trade-rumors-rays-chris-archer-houston-astros

First, I don't believe it. More important, Gray is not Archer.

[MusicMan]

Gray is a good pitcher but he scares the shit out of me. I wouldn't give up top guys for him

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This A's blog  proposes Laureano, Teo, and Daz Cameron for Gray, which I would injure myself picking up the phone so fast to accept.

[doyce7]

This A's blog  proposes Laureano, Teo, and Daz Cameron for Gray, which I would injure myself picking up the phone so fast to accept.

Where do I sign?

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[moriartp]

This A's blog  proposes Laureano, Teo, and Daz Cameron for Gray, which I would injure myself picking up the phone so fast to accept.

Yikes. If that blogger is any indication, A's fans need a real self-esteem (team-esteem?) boost.

[juliogotay]

There is some stuff here I did not know particularly about the Martes and Paulino deals.  Worth reading. https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/06/21/houston-astros-trade-rumors

[Bench]

There is some stuff here I did not know particularly about the Martes and Paulino deals.  Worth reading. https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/06/21/houston-astros-trade-rumors

The background on those deals was news to me as well and totally fascinating. 

[Waldo]

The background on those deals was news to me as well and totally fascinating.

The TV guys said on the broadcast last night that when the Astros asked the Marlins for Martes, the Marlins GM had no idea who he was.

[BlownRanger]

Everyone is wondering about the future of Martes, Tucker, and Fisher.  I'm starting to wonder if we should be worried about losing Jake Rogers.  He came into this season reputed to be one of the best (if not THE best) defensive catchers in all of minor league baseball.  Now he's flashing an .884 OPS in 25 games after being promoted to HiA.

When you start considering the next few years in Houston, no position has more questions than catcher.

[JimR]

The background on those deals was news to me as well and totally fascinating.

I think Verducci told the story during that awful Red Sox broadcast.

[mrpink]

When you start considering the next few years in Houston, no position has more questions than catcher.

I assumed it was starting pitching.  I can't speak to their defensive reputation but in addition to Rogers, Stassi, Centeno, Woodward, Hermelyn, and Chuckie Robinson are all having above average years with the bat.

[JimR]

I assumed it was starting pitching.  I can't speak to their defensive reputation but in addition to Rogers, Stassi, Centeno, Woodward, Hermelyn, and Chuckie Robinson are all having above average years with the bat.

Centeno showed us he can play.

[Andyzipp]

Centeno showed us he can play.

Agreed. Limited sample size, but he looked like he belongs in the bigs.

[juliogotay]

Here's a viewpoint you don't see much; that the Astros should forego trading for the Ace pitcher. https://www.crawfishboxes.com/2017/6/26/15872736/be-careful-of-what-astros-trade-you-wish-for

[NeilT]

Here's a viewpoint you don't see much; that the Astros should forego trading for the Ace pitcher. https://www.crawfishboxes.com/2017/6/26/15872736/be-careful-of-what-astros-trade-you-wish-for

They either win now or they don't.  There's no reason with this team to be thinking about 2019.  Kay Sarah, Kay Sarah, win now. 

[doyce7]

Thinking only about now will get you in trouble. But thinking only about the future will also. There are NO guarantees of future success. For all the teams that forfeited the future for the now, there also teams that did the reverse. When you have a chance, a legitimate chance to win it all, you go for it. Period. The Astros fell off after 05/06 in large part because of poor drafting. Not, solely, because of poor trades. Sure a few trades went badly and sapped the farm a bit, but if good drafting would have made the trades less impactful.

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[JimR]

Here's a viewpoint you don't see much; that the Astros should forego trading for the Ace pitcher. https://www.crawfishboxes.com/2017/6/26/15872736/be-careful-of-what-astros-trade-you-wish-for

This team needs a pitcher. Period.

[chuck]

I might be more concerned about who's going to finish games one and two than who's going to start game three.

[Navin R Johnson]

There isn't any starting pitcher available, that is worth trading multiple top 100 guys plus some fringe ones.   

I'd be all for making a trade like the Royals did in 2015 to get Cueto, a good not great pitcher.   They gave up 1 top 100 guys and a couple other lower level prospects.   I'm more interested in bullpen help at this point.   

[Reuben]

There isn't any starting pitcher available, that is worth trading multiple top 100 guys plus some fringe ones.   

I'd be all for making a trade like the Royals did in 2015 to get Cueto, a good not great pitcher.   They gave up 1 top 100 guys and a couple other lower level prospects.   I'm more interested in bullpen help at this point.

This pretty much echoes my current feelings. Even the Kazmir trade, while he ran out of gas with the Astros, that seemed like a very reasonable deal at the time, for a guy having a very nice year. Something like that would be a good fit for 2017.

[Navin R Johnson]

Lets assume no trade and everyone healthy. 
Starters:  Keuchel, McCullers, Fiers, Morton, McHugh
Relievers: Giles, Devo, Harris, Gregerson, Feliz, Sipp, Peacock and ?

Come playoff time, assuming a 4 man rotation, who drops to relief, or do they leave one of the starters off and add an arm or an extra field player.

Any of the guys that have cycled through the last ~3 weeks get one of the pitching spots?   While Martes was wild yesterday, could he be a pen option?

[NeilT]

There isn't any starting pitcher available, that is worth trading multiple top 100 guys plus some fringe ones.   

I'd be all for making a trade like the Royals did in 2015 to get Cueto, a good not great pitcher.   They gave up 1 top 100 guys and a couple other lower level prospects.   I'm more interested in bullpen help at this point.

Not making a trade because nobody's good enough to trade for is one thing.  Not making a trade because you're worried about 2019 is nuts.  And I wouldn't be worried about over-paying. 

[Jacksonian]

Lets assume no trade and everyone healthy. 
Starters:  Keuchel, McCullers, Fiers, Morton, McHugh
Relievers: Giles, Devo, Harris, Gregerson, Feliz, Sipp, Peacock and ?

Come playoff time, assuming a 4 man rotation, who drops to relief, or do they leave one of the starters off and add an arm or an extra field player.

Any of the guys that have cycled through the last ~3 weeks get one of the pitching spots?   While Martes was wild yesterday, could he be a pen option?

Right now that bullpen question mark is Hoyt.  I think the rotation questions (and who's available and how good are they) are why Luhnow waits until late July to decide whether to make a deal.  On the other hand I would be surprised if he didn't deal for a high end bullpen arm by mid-July.

[JimR]

Lets assume no trade and everyone healthy. 
Starters:  Keuchel, McCullers, Fiers, Morton, McHugh
Relievers: Giles, Devo, Harris, Gregerson, Feliz, Sipp, Peacock and ?

Come playoff time, assuming a 4 man rotation, who drops to relief, or do they leave one of the starters off and add an arm or an extra field player.

Any of the guys that have cycled through the last ~3 weeks get one of the pitching spots?   While Martes was wild yesterday, could he be a pen option?

You cannot count on Kuechel or assume health where there is none.

[das]

They either win now or they don't.  There's no reason with this team to be thinking about 2019.  Kay Sarah, Kay Sarah, win now.

I am fully convinced that the Astros front office can and does take the future into any potential trade calculus and that they are savvy enough to think of both short and long term implications and risks.

This elicits a question for the larger group that I've been thinking about the last couple of weeks though.  If faced with a tough trade proposition that mortgages the future, do you do it?  Specifically, would you (all) prefer a Miami Marlins model of massive spikes of greatness that would gain you a significant chance of a couple of WS titles in a decade while knowing the tear-down and rebuild years would be very lean or would you prefer a Boston (or Atlanta from the 90's) model of sustained elevated excellence with a lesser but real chance most years? 

Even though the Astros have yet to win a WS, I would prefer the latter as the operating model.

[Jacksonian]

I am fully convinced that the Astros front office can and does take the future into any potential trade calculus and that they are savvy enough to think of both short and long term implications and risks.

This elicits a question for the larger group that I've been thinking about the last couple of weeks though.  If faced with a tough trade proposition that mortgages the future, do you do it?  Specifically, would you (all) prefer a Miami Marlins model of massive spikes of greatness that would gain you a significant chance of a couple of WS titles in a decade while knowing the tear-down and rebuild years would be very lean or would you prefer a Boston (or Atlanta from the 90's) model of sustained elevated excellence with a lesser but real chance most years? 

Even though the Astros have yet to win a WS, I would prefer the latter as the operating model.

As he was there, I believe what you are looking now in the Astros is the St. Louis model.

[das]

As he was there, I believe what you are looking now in the Astros is the St. Louis model.

Works for me (and probably a better analog than Atlanta or Boston).  I much prefer this to the win/fire-sale, win/fire-sale model.

[juliogotay]

As he was there, I believe what you are looking now in the Astros is the St. Louis model.

I think this is correct. It was what I have heard from Luhnow.

[The Spleen]

You cannot count on Kuechel or assume health where there is none.

I don't like how his return date keeps creeping back.
Nerve injuries are no joke. Ask Glenn Davis about that...

[Jacksonian]

I don't like how his return date keeps creeping back.
Nerve injuries are no joke. Ask Glenn Davis about that...

Hinch says..

Extra caution and the big lead mean no hurry.

[Ty in Tampa]

This team and season does seem to have some...unique characteristics that lead me to believe the powers can be excused for going a bit off script. Personally, I would be fine with that.

[NeilT]

This team and season does seem to have some...unique characteristics that lead me to believe the powers can be excused for going a bit off script. Personally, I would be fine with that.

If there's a single weak-ass reliever who might help this team in October, you trade the farm for him.

[Ty in Tampa]

If there's a single weak-ass reliever who might help this team in October, you trade the farm for him.

Exactly.

[Nate Colbert]

MLBTR:

"The Padres, meanwhile, are apparently setting their sights high in talks involving southpaw Brad Hand, with one source telling Passan that GM AJ Preller hopes to achieve a return commensurate with that achieved last year by the Yankees for Aroldis Chapman."

(Hand was mentioned in another thread as a possible trade target for the Astros.)

[BUWebguy]

Jose Quintana in June:
5 starts, 30.1 IP, 21 H, 12 BB, 30 K, 1.78 ERA

[Reuben]

Jose Quintana in June:
5 starts, 30.1 IP, 21 H, 12 BB, 30 K, 1.78 ERA

He's been almost as good as Mike Fiers!

[Fredia]

some people are so trade happy they would say deal

[Jacksonian]

Jose Quintana in June:
5 starts, 30.1 IP, 21 H, 12 BB, 30 K, 1.78 ERA

I think it's entirely possible that the Astros will send a ton of talent to the White Sox for Quintana and Robertson.

[David in Jackson]

Have I missed discussion on this board the Twitter talk about Verlander for Martes/Marisnick/P. Tucker, with other names thrown in ?

[JimR]

I think it's entirely possible that the Astros will send a ton of talent to the White Sox for Quintana and Robertson.

Robertson is RH? Need lefty more.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Have I missed discussion on this board the Twitter talk about Verlander for Martes/Marisnick/P. Tucker, with other names thrown in ?

No, not really. Verlander's contract is too much.

[Lefty]

No, not really. Verlander's contract is too much.

Only 2 guaranteed years and how much cash would Detroit be kicking in?

[Reuben]

Only 2 guaranteed years and how much cash would Detroit be kicking in?

It's too much to be giving up Martes unless they're kicking in tens of millions, AND the Astros are confident he's got a lot left in the tank.

[Andyzipp]

Sure he's been mentioned, and I've just missed it, but what about Marcus Stroman?

Comparing him to Jose Quintana:

• He's cheaper. Stroman makes about 1/2 as much this year as Quintana (3.4M vs 7 M) and the options for Quintana for the next two years are at 10.5M while Stroman just has 2 arbitration years
• He's 2 years younger. Storman is 26 vs Quintana at 28
• Playoff experience. Stroman has started 5 games in the playoffs over the past 2 years and Quintana has 0

.

Anyone have any insight if the Blue Jays would consider moving him?

[JimR]

Sure he's been mentioned, and I've just missed it, but what about Marcus Stroman?

Comparing him to Jose Quintana:

• He's cheaper. Stroman makes about 1/2 as much this year as Quintana (3.4M vs 7 M) and the options for Quintana for the next two years are at 10.5M while Stroman just has 2 arbitration years
• He's 2 years younger. Storman is 26 vs Quintana at 28
• Playoff experience. Stroman has started 5 games in the playoffs over the past 2 years and Quintana has 0

.

Anyone have any insight if the Blue Jays would consider moving him?

Let's do it before we face him this series!

[Andyzipp]

Let's do it before we face him this series!

Deal! He's got a little bulldog in him too, which I'm fond of in my pitchers.

[Duke]

The speculation I've been reading today about the Cardinals interest in Donaldson seem to indicate that the Jays still feel like they can contend this year, so they may not be sellers just yet.

[MusicMan]

Deal! He's got a little bulldog in him too, which I'm fond of in my pitchers.

At Stroman's size it must be a very little bulldog. He's smaller than Altuve.


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[Andyzipp]

At Stroman's size it must be a very little bulldog. He's smaller than Altuve.


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He's 5'8" compared to Altuve's listed "5'6""  So, really 5'7" and 5'5"?

How big is his arm?

[Waldo]

Sure he's been mentioned, and I've just missed it, but what about Marcus Stroman?

I kind of wondered the same thing while researching the series preview this morning.  Plus, his name has built-in marketing potential in Houston.

[MusicMan]

He's 5'8" compared to Altuve's listed "5'6""  So, really 5'7" and 5'5"?

How big is his arm?

"It's as big as my... well, it's pretty big."

If they got Stroman, then promotions needs to get Peter Dinklage for a first pitch.


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[Lefty]

He's 5'8" compared to Altuve's listed "5'6""  So, really 5'7" and 5'5"?

How big is his arm?

Oswalt sized.

[JimR]

Deal! He's got a little bulldog in him too, which I'm fond of in my pitchers.

I read this morning he has a blister issue and may not pitch.

[Nate Colbert]

Teams in need of starting pitchers, including the Astros, have been calling the Atlanta Braves about Julio Teheran...

[JimR]

Should have traded for Stroman before today.

[austro]

Should have traded for Stroman before today.

I just hope the Jays don't trade Donaldson to somebody that we're going to play a whole bunch of times in the second half. There was one year in the NL Central when the schedule was arranged such that we played nearly all of our games against PIT in the first half and Aramis Ramirez killed us. Then PIT traded him to the Cubs, and of course the schedule was such that we played most of our games against them in the second half. (Looks like that was 2003.)

[Nate Colbert]

Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press on the Tigers being "open for business" regarding trading certain players, particularly the possibility of dealing lefty reliever Justin Wilson:

"The Astros have long been linked to Wilson and came the closest to trading for him in the off-season, when the Tigers were shopping him around. Outfielder Derek Fisher was a player the Tigers asked for in exchange for Wilson at that time, a person with knowledge of the situation said."

"Along with the Nationals, both the Astros and Cubs had high-level scouts watching the Tigers last [week], and the Dodgers have been linked to Wilson, as well."

[austro]

I'll be sad to see Fisher go, but I think he's probably going to have to be included in a package for any significant pitcher.

[Bench]

I'll be sad to see Fisher go, but I think he's probably going to have to be included in a package for any significant pitcher.

I hope that pitcher is more significant than Justin Wilson.

[JimR]

I hope that pitcher is more significant than Justin Wilson.

LHP, closer, pretty good stats, teams needing bullpen help are following him.

Derek Fisher has a bright future, but the point is to win now.

[Mr. Happy]

LHP, closer, pretty good stats, teams needing bullpen help are following him.

Derek Fisher has a bright future, but the point is to win now.

I agree. Wilson's a proven vet who would definitely improve the bully and provide Hinch with another portside arm. In my opinion, the club needs another starter and a bully arm to go deep into the playoffs, so this acquisition would fill one of those needs. We're close, so the club has to try to win now. If it costs us Fisher, so be it.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I agree. Wilson's a proven vet who would definitely improve the bully and provide Hinch with another portside arm.

Do you garontee!??

[Fredia]

i got to see justin wilson many years ago ..

[juliogotay]

LHP, closer, pretty good stats, teams needing bullpen help are following him.

Derek Fisher has a bright future, but the point is to win now.

Pretty good piece regarding Luhnow's viewpoint on the situation. Key take-away
We want to win now, for sure, and we’re going to do whatever it takes to win now. But at the same time, we’ve been building up all this currency, all these players in the pipeline so that we could be good for a long time

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/astros-demonstrating-rebuild-can-lead-juggernaut/

[JimR]

We need to get serious about trade rumors, Nate. I love Luhnow's approach.

[MusicMan]

We need to get serious about trade rumors, Nate. I love Luhnow's approach.

Well, I'm willing to consider giving the trade rumors a key to my place, but I'm not ready to put a ring on them or anything.


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[das]

We need to get serious about trade rumors, Nate. I love Luhnow's approach.

I love the approach too.  I am hopeful that the starters coming off the DL will fix the majority of the Pen issues with Peacock going back into that long releif role.  Man, he's making that hard though.  Situational lefty is still a concern though.  I just don't know that Sipp is going to turn it around.

[Andyzipp]

I love the approach too.  I am hopeful that the starters coming off the DL will fix the majority of the Pen issues with Peacock going back into that long releif role.  Man, he's making that hard though.  Situational lefty is still a concern though.  I just don't know that Sipp is going to turn it around.

The key to Sipp's improvement this season is to avoid using him.  The last 14 days, he's rocking a 1.80 ERA in 5 appearances.

[jbm]

I am all for improving on Sipp but to his credit, he has been serviceable lately.  That being said, acquiring a stud lefty reliever is a top priority, IMO.  It would also provide some insurance if the closer situation deteriorates in the playoffs.

[JimR]

I love the approach too.  I am hopeful that the starters coming off the DL will fix the majority of the Pen issues with Peacock going back into that long releif role.  Man, he's making that hard though.  Situational lefty is still a concern though.  I just don't know that Sipp is going to turn it around.

Peacock is a tough issue.

[BlownRanger]

Based on all of Luhnow's recent quotes, I think this is where he's at on trading Tucker, Fisher, or Martes:  If he thinks a deal significantly improves this team's chances in a post-season series, he'll pull the trigger, even for a rental.  That's a fine line to walk.  But when a team is this good, you HAVE to give them every edge possible going into October.

[jaklewein]

Based on all of Luhnow's recent quotes, I think this is where he's at on trading Tucker, Fisher, or Martes:  If he thinks a deal significantly improves this team's chances in a post-season series, he'll pull the trigger, even for a rental.  That's a fine line to walk.  But when a team is this good, you HAVE to give them every edge possible going into October.

Other than a lefty reliever, what is really out there on the market that would be considered "significant"?  We could use a SP but I'm not sure there are any real slam dunks out there.  This to those that pointed out what Sale might have meant to this team....  I hate to second guess, as I was scared shitless to deal what would've been needed to get him at the time.  Looking at it now though, he's still the only SP that would've really made a difference for this team right, or am I missing someone?

Lastly, what was the consensus on what we'd of had to give up to get Sale?

[astrosfan76]

Other than a lefty reliever, what is really out there on the market that would be considered "significant"?  We could use a SP but I'm not sure there are any real slam dunks out there.  This to those that pointed out what Sale might have meant to this team....  I hate to second guess, as I was scared shitless to deal what would've been needed to get him at the time.  Looking at it now though, he's still the only SP that would've really made a difference for this team right, or am I missing someone?

Lastly, what was the consensus on what we'd of had to give up to get Sale?

If we're trying to top what Boston gave up?  Correa

[BlownRanger]

Other than a lefty reliever, what is really out there on the market that would be considered "significant"?  We could use a SP but I'm not sure there are any real slam dunks out there.  This to those that pointed out what Sale might have meant to this team....  I hate to second guess, as I was scared shitless to deal what would've been needed to get him at the time.  Looking at it now though, he's still the only SP that would've really made a difference for this team right, or am I missing someone?

Lastly, what was the consensus on what we'd of had to give up to get Sale?

I think the Astros would definitely benefit from a tested, veteran starter.  And Luhnow knows a lot better than we do about what to expect from Keuchel.  I hope the pitches that they showed of him pitching off the bullpen mound were the first couple he threw, because he appeared to be absolutely lobbing the ball.  Assuming he comes back at full strength, we can feel great about Keuchel and McCullers in Games 1 and 2.  After that, looking at what's available, there are many tested veterans that would significantly improve the outlook.  Whether any of them are available is a very legitimate question, but if they are, no one in the minors should be considered untouchable.

[Fynn]

The few minor league players we have with star potential are not worth giving up for the mediocre players available.  I think we should stand pat.

[JimR]

The few minor league players we have with star potential are not worth giving up for the mediocre players available.  I think we should stand pat.

You are crazy or are not paying attention. This is the time to "win now," not to fret about "star potential."

[Tonywatson]

I think there will be very little movement at trade deadline all around. Too many buyers, too high a price for the prizes. I think bullpen arm is most likely if a deal is made though.


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[jaklewein]

You are crazy or are not paying attention. This is the time to "win now," not to fret about "star potential."

I know I'm responding out of turn, but who do you/others feel are the difference makers that will be available at the deadline (potential haul to give in return be damned)?

[JimR]

I know I'm responding out of turn, but who do you/others feel are the difference makers that will be available at the deadline (potential haul to give in return be damned)?

Luhnow's job, not mine. I do not have the info he has.

[Reuben]

The few minor league players we have with star potential are not worth giving up for the mediocre players available.  I think we should stand pat.

Whoa there, buddy. There's a lot of middle ground between "giving up all of our very best/potential star prospects for any old mediocre player" and "we should do absolutely nothing."

I saw a report today that the Astros have asked the Mets about DeGrom. No mention of what was offered, and plenty of skepticism that the Mets will even listen to offers. But it makes me wonder... let's say the Astros offered Bregman and maybe Martes plus some 2nd-tier guys... DeGrom can't hit Free Agency until 2021... do the Mets turn that down? Probably, I guess.

[Nate Colbert]

"Alderson insisted that his team’s valuable young starting pitchers — such as righthander Jacob deGrom — are unlikely to be moved."

Newsday

[roadrunner]

Based on all of Luhnow's recent quotes, I think this is where he's at on trading Tucker, Fisher, or Martes:  If he thinks a deal significantly improves this team's chances in a post-season series, he'll pull the trigger, even for a rental.  That's a fine line to walk.  But when a team is this good, you HAVE to give them every edge possible going into October.

Jonah Keri has a 1-hour interview up with Luhnow on his podcast and he gives a little insight into their deadline thinking.  My take after listening to it was that they are gifted this great season so there's no need to overpay for something to get them to the playoffs.  Once we get to the playoffs it's a crapshoot, so they are specifically analyzing that with the price of giving up guys who have a lot of future value - his example was Martes.  He basically said why trade for a starter when you have Martes who is developing as we speak, throws 97, and has plus secondary stuff and has 6 more years of control. 

The great thing about this deadline is I trust whatever Luhnow does.

[Reuben]

"Alderson insisted that his team’s valuable young starting pitchers — such as righthander Jacob deGrom — are unlikely to be moved."

Newsday

'Alderson said no such deals have been proposed to the Mets. “That’s a possibility only because you never quite know what’s going to be presented,” he said. “But I say that sort of trade is exceedingly unlikely.”'

[Navin R Johnson]

Buster_ESPN: Other teams say that for now, the Padres are looking for a return on lefty Brad Hand similar to what the Phillies got for Ken Giles.

[JimR]

Buster_ESPN: Other teams say that for now, the Padres are looking for a return on lefty Brad Hand similar to what the Phillies got for Ken Giles.

Maybe the Tigers will be more reasonable.

[Jacksonian]

While Luhnow was with the Cardinals what big deadline deal moves did they make?

[moriartp]

While Luhnow was with the Cardinals what big deadline deal moves did they make?

Matt Holliday and Edwin Jackson are the ones that leap to mind, but there could be a bigger one I'm not thinking of.

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[DVauthrin]

I know I'm responding out of turn, but who do you/others feel are the difference makers that will be available at the deadline (potential haul to give in return be damned)?

Gerrit Cole, Darvish, DeGrom, Sonny Gray, Stroman and Verlander all have the talent to be difference makers.  As is Chris Archer if the Rays would be willing to trade him.  It's a very strong SP market.

[Navin R Johnson]

Of those, maybe 2 get traded.  Gray for sure, the others are pretty iffy to move, unless someone is giving away the farm.

[DVauthrin]

Of those, maybe 2 get traded.  Gray for sure, the others are pretty iffy to move, unless someone is giving away the farm.

All of those pitchers are top of the rotation guys and have proven themselves in that capacity for multiple seasons.  This isn't like last year where Rich Hill was the deadline prize.  And none of the guys on the list are rentals other than Darvish.  And other than Verlander, they aren't old either. 

Point is, they are worth trading a good package of prospects.

[Nate Colbert]

Joel Sherman:

"Rival executives believe the Astros will wait until close to the deadline and end up with a starter and a reliever, but anticipate that come the playoffs Houston will follow the Indians/Francona path and attack early in games with their deep bullpen, notably Chris Devenski and Will Harris."

Throws out the usual familiar names as possible trade options.

[Andyzipp]

All of those pitchers are top of the rotation guys and have proven themselves in that capacity for multiple seasons.  This isn't like last year where Rich Hill was the deadline prize.  And none of the guys on the list are rentals other than Darvish.  And other than Verlander, they aren't old either. 

Point is, they are worth trading a good package of prospects.

Most observers think the Cubs overpaid for Quintana.  So a good package doesn't necessarily include your top two prospects.

[Navin R Johnson]

All of those pitchers are top of the rotation guys and have proven themselves in that capacity for multiple seasons.  This isn't like last year where Rich Hill was the deadline prize.  And none of the guys on the list are rentals other than Darvish.  And other than Verlander, they aren't old either. 

Point is, they are worth trading a good package of prospects.

Which multiple seasons have Cole, Stroman proven themselves as top of the line?  Both have had 1 really good year, Cole in 2015 and Stroman so far this year.  Thats it.   They arent guys who have piled up 3+ years of consistent top of the line performance.    I'd love to have either, and they'd be upgrades at our #3 spot (assuming DK and LMJ are back).

Gray had really good seasons in 14/15 and looks good this year too.   I'd really love to see him added.

Archer and DeGroom fit the bill but neither will get traded.

Verlander was great, key word was.   And is owed a ridiculous amount of money which the Tigers aren't willing to help pay.  He aint moving to the Astros unless that changes.

I'll stick with 2 on your listet traded, Gray seems the most likely, and then maybe Cole or Darvish.

[DVauthrin]

Which multiple seasons have Cole, Stroman proven themselves as top of the line?  Both have had 1 really good year, Cole in 2015 and Stroman so far this year.  Thats it.   They arent guys who have piled up 3+ years of consistent top of the line performance.    I'd love to have either, and they'd be upgrades at our #3 spot (assuming DK and LMJ are back).

Gray had really good seasons in 14/15 and looks good this year too.   I'd really love to see him added.

Archer and DeGroom fit the bill but neither will get traded.

Verlander was great, key word was.   And is owed a ridiculous amount of money which the Tigers aren't willing to help pay.  He aint moving to the Astros unless that changes.

I'll stick with 2 on your listet traded, Gray seems the most likely, and then maybe Cole or Darvish.

Verlander had a 3.04 era last year and has a lot of postseason experience. His salary is the big stumbling block, but the Tigers may be willing to eat some of it to accelerate the rebuilding process. He's having a poor year, but he's not done.  Stroman, I stand corrected, as this is only his second full year of starting.  He's more risky than the others on the list but he comes with tons of team control.

Gerrit Cole hasn't finished a season with an era below 3.88 in any season since being called up by the Pirates in 2013.  He's a great number 3 and is easily more proven than McCullers.

I also don't disagree that many of these guys won't be traded.  But if their clubs are willing to listen, the Astros should be willing to put a quality offer on the table. They need top of the rotation type arms, and other than Darvish,  these pitchers are under control beyond this season.  Which plays perfectly into helping the team boost its WS chances now, while improving the team for 2018 and beyond.

[Nate Colbert]

Josh Norris @jnorris427 12m ago
#Rays #Padres #WhiteSox all have guys in Buies Creek for today's game. Padres are doubling up. It's trade season.

Whitley is pitching for BC tonight.

[juliogotay]

Gerrit Cole, Darvish, DeGrom, Sonny Gray, Stroman and Verlander all have the talent to be difference makers.  As is Chris Archer if the Rays would be willing to trade him.  It's a very strong SP market.

Not sure if Cole, Darvish, Gray or Stroman are available.

[Nate Colbert]

Josh Norris @jnorris427 12m ago
#Rays #Padres #WhiteSox all have guys in Buies Creek for today's game. Padres are doubling up. It's trade season.

Whitley is pitching for BC tonight.

If the White Sox and Astros are actually talking, one would guess that David Robertson is being discussed.

[Jacksonian]

If the White Sox and Astros are actually talking, one would guess that David Robertson is being discussed.

He's all that's there that fits at all.

[Andyzipp]

If we're going pie in the sky, the Giants have activated Madison Bumgarner for tonight's game.  I'm sure they're just showcasing him...

[JimR]

If we're going pie in the sky, the Giants have activated Madison Bumgarner for tonight's game.  I'm sure they're just showcasing him...

This is our "God is an Astros fan" trade.

[Reuben]

This is our "God is an Astros fan" trade.

From July 1998 through the beginning of October 1998, I had assumed this must be the case.

[Nate Colbert]

Jon Morosi  @jonmorosi 41m ago
Sources: #Astros doing background work on Jeff Samardzija as trade candidate. He has thrown 6+ IP in 15 of 18 starts for #SFGiants.

[JimR]

Jon Morosi  @jonmorosi 41m ago
Sources: #Astros doing background work on Jeff Samardzija as trade candidate. He has thrown 6+ IP in 15 of 18 starts for #SFGiants.

Cover story for scouting Madbum

[austro]

Cover story for scouting Madbum

Hope so. Samardzija makes me queasy.

[geezerdonk]

Bumgarner isn't Randy Johnson, but he is close enough - if healthy. If Luhnow can pull this off he is a miracle worker. Samarzidja might help a little but he has a big contract. Giants would have to help.

[homer]

A grade 2 AC sprain is both the partially torn ligament and also (likely) permanent damage to the AC joint.

[Reuben]

A grade 2 AC sprain is both the partially torn ligament and also (likely) permanent damage to the AC joint.

I have no idea what this is referring to.

[Jacksonian]

Josh Norris @jnorris427 12m ago
#Rays #Padres #WhiteSox all have guys in Buies Creek for today's game. Padres are doubling up. It's trade season.

Whitley is pitching for BC tonight.

They saw Whitley dominate.

[homer]

I have no idea what this is referring to.

Bumgarner's injury.

[Reuben]

They saw Whitley dominate.

5 2/3 IP, 3 H, 1 BB, 10 K, 0 R.

Other than Whitley, the only other guys I can see teams being interested in who were playing tonight are Jake Rogers, and, well, Yordan Alvarez, who actually was scratched from the lineup. I like Myles Straw a lot, but given his complete lack of power it seems unlikely he'd be viewed as anything more than a throw-in in ay significant deal.

[Nate Colbert]

A couple of relievers off the market...

Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal 6m ago
Sources: #Nationals acquiring Doolittle and Madson from #Athletics for Treinen and two prospects.

[Lefty]

Doolittle sure would have looked nice in our pen.

[roadrunner]

They saw Whitley dominate.

Passan tweeted the other day that Whitley is considered "untradeable" due to how highly the Astros now think of him.

[Navin R Johnson]

Luhnow was on the radio prior to todays game.  In regards to trades, he said don't expect much from the Astros until the last couple days of the deadline.

They are looking to bolster the starting pitching, but the asking price for the people they have inquired about is WAY more than they are willing to part with.  He said that could change, not sure if he meant the asking price or what they are willing to give up.   He made a point to say that he has a duty to not just worry about this season, but for future years and he doesn't plan on emptying out the farm system.

[JimR]

Luhnow was on the radio prior to todays game.  In regards to trades, he said don't expect much from the Astros until the last couple days of the deadline.

They are looking to bolster the starting pitching, but the asking price for the people they have inquired about is WAY more than they are willing to part with.  He said that could change, not sure if he meant the asking price or what they are willing to give up.   He made a point to say that he has a duty to not just worry about this season, but for future years and he doesn't plan on emptying out the farm system.

I have whiplash from all the different things he has said.

[jbm]

Passan tweeted the other day that Whitley is considered "untradeable" due to how highly the Astros now think of him.

Seeing how quickly he has progressed and that he is a starting pitcher, seems logical. I would assume bats are what the Astros are most likely to part with.

[juliogotay]

Seeing how quickly he has progressed and that he is a starting pitcher, seems logical. I would assume bats are what the Astros are most likely to part with.

Luhnow also mentioned Martes as someone that will probably be a part of the pen for the remainder of the year. He thought going into the season he would be of value there due to his electric stuff. 

[Nate Colbert]

Mark Feinsand  @Feinsand 12m ago
Cubs, DBacks, Astros & Dodgers all at Camden Yards this weekend to scout Britton, O'Day and Brach. Baltimore bullpen could fetch big return.

[MusicMan]

Sign me up for Zach Britton.

[JimR]

Sign me up for Zach Britton.

LA wants him too

[Lefty]

What do you guys think about Samadjzlila?  Solid MOR guy, shouldn't be excessively expensive, what am I missing?

[juliogotay]

did I read somewhere KTucker left the game today with an injury? And Alvarez was held out of a couple of games this weekend? It's the silly season so I'm asking.

[Nate Colbert]

did I read somewhere KTucker left the game today with an injury? And Alvarez was held out of a couple of games this weekend? It's the silly season so I'm asking.

Both were discussed in the Bus Ride.

Quinton Martinez  @qmartinez 59s ago
UPDATE: Kyle Tucker came out of last night's game as a precaution with back discomfort. Which is also why he is out of the lineup tonight.

Josh Norris @jnorris427 32m ago
Yordan Alvarez was in the lineup pregame but was scratched.

"A little dinged up", says manager Omar Lopez.

[JimR]

Luhnow also mentioned Martes as someone that will probably be a part of the pen for the remainder of the year. He thought going into the season he would be of value there due to his electric stuff.

Martes looked really good in relief Sat night. If we trade him, we'd better get a difference maker.

[WVastro]

What do you guys think about Samadjzlila?  Solid MOR guy, shouldn't be excessively expensive, what am I missing?

I've always thought he's overrated. I'm sure he's a nice guy...I hope they stay away.

[austro]

I've always thought he's overrated. I'm sure he's a nice guy...I hope they stay away.

If they could get him cheap, that would probably be ok. But I'd be disappointed if they gave up any of Martes/Tucker/Fisher/Whitley/Rogers for him.

[WVastro]

If they could get him cheap, that would probably be ok. But I'd be disappointed if they gave up any of Martes/Tucker/Fisher/Whitley/Rogers for him.

Kuechel
McCullers
Morton
Fiers
McHugh

If they get him as insurance, sure...? I wouldn't replace anyone on that list with JS. There's no room for him unless there's an injury.

[austro]

Kuechel
McCullers
Morton
Fiers
McHugh

If they get him as insurance, sure...? I wouldn't replace anyone on that list with JS. There's no room for him unless there's an injury.

I'm just paranoid about health. Is Keuchel ok? Maybe. Has McCullers ever finished a full season? I don't think so. Has McHugh pitched at all this year? No. How long did Morton spend on the DL? 6 weeks.

I fear that there may still be some "surprises" in front of us.

[MusicMan]

What do you guys think about Samadjzlila?  Solid MOR guy, shouldn't be excessively expensive, what am I missing?

No. I don't want an innings eater. We're going to the playoffs, where innings eaters don't make a shit.


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[JimR]

No. I don't want an innings eater. We're going to the playoffs, where innings eaters don't make a shit.


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Yep. We need the guy who can win a 2-1 game.

[MusicMan]

Yep. We need the guy who can win a 2-1 game.

And if he's not out there, go get 2 more hammer bullpen guys and turn them into 5 inning games.


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[JimR]

And if he's not out there, go get 2 more hammer bullpen guys and turn them into 5 inning games.


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Yep. We are not going to score 10 on Sale...IF we make the playoffs.

[juliogotay]

Kuechel
McCullers
Morton
Fiers
McHugh

If they get him as insurance, sure...? I wouldn't replace anyone on that list with JS. There's no room for him unless there's an injury.

I don't believe you need but four starters in an extended playoff run with all the days off.

[WVastro]

I don't believe you need but four starters in an extended playoff run with all the days off.

I'm only focused on a 5 man rotation that might luckily secure us a playoff spot.

If the Astros add a starter I want it to be a stud that makes me question the order of the potential top 3.

[JimR]

I don't believe you need but four starters in an extended playoff run with all the days off.

IF the team makes it.

Starters in the playoffs must shut the other team down.

[MusicMan]

I don't believe you need but four starters in an extended playoff run with all the days off.

But the Astros won't go with 3, because you don't want either Keuchel or LMJ going on short rest.


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[juliogotay]

But the Astros won't go with 3, because you don't want either Keuchel or LMJ going on short rest.


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It would be interesting to see what they would do if it came down to an elimination game and one of them had three days rest. If, of course, they make the playoffs.

[Mr. Happy]

But the Astros won't go with 3, because you don't want either Keuchel or LMJ going on short rest.


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Agreed, which is why we need to add a lock down bully guy.

[BlownRanger]

An innings-eater would provide value by helping to ensure the bullpen does not end the regular season in the same shambles it has the last two years.

[Nate Colbert]

Jon Morosi  @jonmorosi 3m ago
Sources: #Tigers now willing to include some cash in a Justin Verlander trade, but no indication that #Yankees are getting involved.

ETA:
The Tigers apparently lost a suitor for Justin Verlander when the Cubs dealt for Quintana, but a trade involving Detroit's longtime ace remains possible. The Astros and Dodgers are the likeliest destinations -- if Verlander is moved at all.

Followup article

[jbm]

This got me looking at Verlander's season.  Not impressive.  Glanced back at Gray's and his is decent to pretty good as of late.  Of course Gray is at peak age and Verlander is post-peak.  Both are competitors who I could see dominating a big playoff game, but Gray seems like a better get at this point. 

Whoever they target, let's hope they nail it.

[Navin R Johnson]

 Bob Nightengale‏Verified account @BNightengale 3m3 minutes ago
The #Astros still favorites for #A's Sonny Gray, but #Royals very aggressive on him, #STLCards Lance Lynn,others


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2017/07/17/mlb-trade-deadline-rumors-sonny-gray-jd-martinez/484205001/
The Astros would prefer to land Detroit Tigers All-Star Michael Fulmer, and likely would include No. 1 prospect Francis Martes for him, but they inquired, just like the Cubs, and came up empty. If Fulmer is traded, the Tigers say, it won’t be until this winter when everyone can make a bid.

The Astros realize that Gray is the ideal front-line starter in this market to make a run for their first World Series title in franchise history, giving them a dynamic rotation with All-Stars Dallas Keuchel and Lance McCullers Jr.

Prediction: Gray goes to the Astros for starter Joe Musgrove, prized pitching prospect Forrest Whitley and outfield prospect Teoscar Hernandez.

and

The Tigers have begun winning since the break, but it’s too late. Tigers officials say they plan to move left-handed reliever Justin Wilson, outfielder J.D. Martinez and catcher Alex Avila. Wilson easily is drawing the most interest, with about 12 teams bidding for him, led by the Houston Astros and Los Angeles Dodgers.

Prediction: The Astros acquire Wilson, who’s under control through 2018 for outfield prospect Derek Fisher.

[MusicMan]

If we got those two pieces without giving up Martes or Tucker, it's a win in my book.


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[BlownRanger]

If we got those two pieces without giving up Martes or Tucker, it's a win in my book.


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The way Whitley is pitching, losing him might hurt as much as Martes, but I agree, those would be really good deals.

[DVauthrin]

This got me looking at Verlander's season.  Not impressive.  Glanced back at Gray's and his is decent to pretty good as of late.  Of course Gray is at peak age and Verlander is post-peak.  Both are competitors who I could see dominating a big playoff game, but Gray seems like a better get at this point. 

Whoever they target, let's hope they nail it.

Gray is absolutely pitching better than Verlander, but Verlander hasn't been as bad as his numbers suggest.  He's made 19 starts, and in 14 of them he's allowed three or less runs.  He allowed 4 runs in one start, six runs to the Astros and had two brutal starts vs the Indians(7 runs and 9 runs).  If anything, his issues with Cleveland would give me pause if I was Lunhow.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=8700&position=P

[Reuben]

Joel Sherman makes the case for the Mets to at least listen to offers for DeGrom.
link

[BUWebguy]

An innings-eater would provide value by helping to ensure the bullpen does not end the regular season in the same shambles it has the last two years.

And is ready to be used aggressively in the postseason, 2016 Indians-style.

[Nate Colbert]

Jerry Crasnick  @jcrasnick 9m ago
#Padres GM A.J. Preller is asking for teams' "top, top prospects'' in talks for Brad Hand, says an evaluator with a club that's inquired.

Lotsa luck with that, AJ.

[BlownRanger]

Jerry Crasnick  @jcrasnick 9m ago
#Padres GM A.J. Preller is asking for teams' "top, top prospects'' in talks for Brad Hand, says an evaluator with a club that's inquired.

Lotsa luck with that, AJ.

If he sticks to that demand through the deadline, then I really think they want to keep him and just want the fan base to think they're being aggressive.

[MusicMan]

Jerry Crasnick reports the Tigers are on the verge of a deal or two.

[Nate Colbert]

Mark Berman @MarkBermanFox26 1m ago
Jeff Luhnow reiterates that prices to make deals with the trade deadline around the corner right now r too high. "We have a very good team".

[JimR]

Mark Berman @MarkBermanFox26 1m ago
Jeff Luhnow reiterates that prices to make deals with the trade deadline around the corner right now r too high. "We have a very good team".

That team is a lot less good today. I will be astonished if we stand pat.

[Nate Colbert]

Jerry Crasnick reports the Tigers are on the verge of a deal or two.

JD Martinez has been traded to the D-Backs.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

JD Martinez has been traded to the D-Backs.

For prospects Dawel Lugo,  Jose King, and Sergio Alcantara

[Navin R Johnson]

@Ken_Rosenthal

Sources: #Orioles owner Peter Angelos today gave GM Dan Duquette the approval to pursue trades for the O’s top relievers and Seth Smith.

[Reuben]

For prospects Dawel Lugo,  Jose King, and Sergio Alcantara

I know nothing about those guys but what I've seen the experts seem to agree that's not a great haul. Dbacks system poorly rated and the top guys is their 4th-best.

[Nate Colbert]

Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal now
Source: #Yankees close to getting Frazier, Robertson and Kahnle from #WhiteSox for prospects.

[Navin R Johnson]

crap, if true.

@KenR0senthaI

Source: #Indians close to finalizing deal with #Athletics to bring Sonny Gray to Cleveland for prospects.

[Nate Colbert]

crap, if true.

@KenR0senthaI

Source: #Indians close to finalizing deal with #Athletics to bring Sonny Gray to Cleveland for prospects.

I'm looking at the real Ken Rosenthal twitter account and don't see that. Are you sure that's not a fake account you're referencing?

[doyce7]

I'm looking at the real Ken Rosenthal twitter account and don't see that. Are you sure that's not a fake account you're referencing?

Fake account. Look at the Twitter name

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[Nate Colbert]

Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal now
Source: #Yankees close to getting Frazier, Robertson and Kahnle from #WhiteSox for prospects.

Supposedly going to the White Sox if deal completed: Tyler Clippard and minor leaguers OF Blake Rutherford (Yankees #2 prospect and Top 100 guy),  LHP Ian Clarkin (Yankees #19 prospect) plus a 3rd prospect.

If that truly is the deal and Rutherford is the top prospect name going to Chicago, that's a fucking steal for the Yankees.

ETA:

Trade is now official.

[Nate Colbert]

Supposedly going to the White Sox if deal completed: Tyler Clippard and minor leaguers OF Blake Rutherford (Yankees #2 prospect and Top 100 guy),  LHP Ian Clarkin (Yankees #19 prospect) plus a 3rd prospect.

If that truly is the deal and Rutherford is the top prospect name going to Chicago, that's a fucking steal for the Yankees.

ETA:

Trade is now official.

Tito Polo is the 4th prospect going to Chicago. He's not even in the Yankees Top 30 prospects.

Fuck, fuck, fuck.

[JimR]

Tito Polo is the 4th prospect going to Chicago. He's not even in the Yankees Top 30 prospects.

Fuck, fuck, fuck.

Perhaps Luhnow did not want Robertson. I cannot believe he will let the deadline pass without doing something.

[Fredia]

knowing your expertise I am now truly nervous

[BudGirl]

I think a move happens early next week.  Luhnow will see how McHugh and Keuchel do after their starts this weekend and then players will start flying.  There are a lot of teams that are willing to wait for Astros prospects.

[NeilT]

I think a move happens early next week.  Luhnow will see how McHugh and Keuchel do after their starts this weekend and then players will start flying.  There are a lot of teams that are willing to wait for Astros prospects.

Unless they pitch brilliantly, I don't think this weekend's starts tell much, and they certainly don't tell if Keuchel and McHugh are healthy.  Look at McCullers.  I don't think we'll know how he is until his third or fourth start. 

[BudGirl]

Unless they pitch brilliantly, I don't think this weekend's starts tell much, and they certainly don't tell if Keuchel and McHugh are healthy.  Look at McCullers.  I don't think we'll know how he is until his third or fourth start. 

But I think they'll set the price of what Luhnow will have to pay.  If  they look like they are going to do well, he may not have to pay as much. 

But there is a good probability that I'm wrong.  I trust Luhnow, he's created this team we have now and I think he'll take it to the next level.

[MusicMan]

I still think the most likely additions are:

1. Gray
2. Britton
3. Justin Wilson
4. Addison Reed

[Nate Colbert]

Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal 3h ago
High asking price for SPs is one reason #Yankees pivoted to #WhiteSox trade.

[Nate Colbert]

Mark Feinsand  @Feinsand 11m ago
Source: Mariners close to dealing for a reliever.

[MusicMan]

Crasnick's column this morning paints the picture of the Astros trying to decide if Gray is a major Game 3 upgrade, and if not, going after Britton and/or Hand.


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[MusicMan]

Jon Morosi:

Sources: #Astros, #Brewers, #RedSox among teams showing continued interest in #Tigers reliever Justin Wilson. @MLB @MLBNetwork


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[MusicMan]

Morosi:

Sources: #Astros, #Athletics talks on Sonny Gray are heating up. @MLBNetwork @MLB

[astrosfan76]

@jonmorosi 18m18 minutes ago

Sources: While #Astros are in talks with #Athletics on Sonny Gray, they remain interested in Justin Verlander/Justin Wilson deal w/ Detroit.

[MusicMan]

Mariners just sent 4 (!!!) prospects to Miami for Phelps, and I can't stop laughing.


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[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Is Stroman staying in Toronto? Is he still a possibility?

[MusicMan]

Is Stroman staying in Toronto? Is he still a possibility?

Blue Jays seem loath to sell


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[Nate Colbert]

Mariners just sent 4 (!!!) prospects to Miami for Phelps, and I can't stop laughing.

Mark Feinsand  @Feinsand 39m ago
Marlins getting CF Brayan Hernandez (M's #6 on @MLBPipeline) RHP Brandon Miller (16) RHP Pablo Lopez (22) RHP Lucas Schiraldi (not top 30),

For a relatively mediocre reliever with a little over a year of control left. Bizarre.

Again demonstrates what a coup the Yankees pulled off in the Robertson/Kahnle deal.

[juliogotay]

I still think the most likely additions are:

1. Gray
2. Britton
3. Justin Wilson
4. Addison Reed

I was only listening with one ear but I think I heard some talking head on MLB network saying Britton had some arm or shoulder issue that limited his workload. Any one heard anything like that?

[Nate Colbert]

I was only listening with one ear but I think I heard some talking head on MLB network saying Britton had some arm or shoulder issue that limited his workload. Any one heard anything like that?

He missed two months (May and June) with a left forearm strain. And that was after another two-week DL stint back in April for the same injury. The O's have not used him in back to back games since he came back a couple of weeks ago.

[Nate Colbert]

Tigers' beat writer...

anthony fenech  @anthonyfenech 4m ago
About the Astros: While interested, their involvement in Verlander talks has been minimal, I'm told.

[juliogotay]

He missed two months (May and June) with a left forearm strain. And that was after another two-week DL stint back in April for the same injury. The O's have not used him in back to back games since he came back a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks Nate.

[Nate Colbert]

Jerry Crasnick  @jcrasnick 22m ago
Addison Reed attracting the most interest of any of the #Mets trade chips, and is the most likely to be moved by the deadline.

[Navin R Johnson]

Addison seems like a solid rental.   I'd hope the price wouldn't be to high for  4 months of a righty setup man.

[JimR]

Addison seems like a solid rental.   I'd hope the price wouldn't be to high for  4 months of a righty setup man.

Need LHP

[Nate Colbert]

Jon Heyman  @JonHeyman 6m
a's have named their price on sonny gray from yankees. nothing said close yet.

Jon Heyman  @JonHeyman 5m
not hearing if any serious talks with astros and a's on gray. houston appears to be looking elsewhere at moment.

[Navin R Johnson]

Need LHP

We could use arms, especially if Harris is out longer than expected. But agree, LHP is a priority.

[Nate Colbert]

Buster Olney  @Buster_ESPN 1m ago
About the Zach Britton sweepstakes: Rival evaluators think the Astros may well be the most motivated suitor.

[JimR]

If we get Gray and Britton without losing "untouchables," I'll rejoice.

[DVauthrin]

If we get Gray and Britton without losing "untouchables," I'll rejoice.

Agreed.  If Lunhow pulls that off, he deserves a statue. 

[MusicMan]

Agreed.  If Lunhow pulls that off, he deserves a statue.

He'd at least deserve exec of the year, but Cashman called up Judge so that's out of reach.


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[jaklewein]

If we get Gray and Britton without losing "untouchables," I'll rejoice.

No way that happens. Neither club has to trade either player. They will get paid or keep said player IMO.

[JimR]

He'd at least deserve exec of the year, but Cashman called up Judge so that's out of reach.


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Speaking of Judge, I did know having a rocket arm is part of his resume. It is.

[Nate Colbert]

Passan: Rangers are gauging Yu Darvish packages prior to trade deadline

[WVastro]

Passan: Rangers are gauging Yu Darvish packages prior to trade deadline

If they can get Darvish and Britton I don't care who they give up in the MiL's. I'm fine with one year of Darvish and I don't care if they trade within the division. Those two could make this team almost unstoppable this year.

[JimR]

Speaking of Judge, I did know having a rocket arm is part of his resume. It is.

This was supposed to say I did not know

[JimR]

If they can get Darvish and Britton I don't care who they give up in the MiL's. I'm fine with one year of Darvish and I don't care if they trade within the division. Those two could make this team almost unstoppable this year.

The only problem with that move is making the damn Rangers better with our prospects. An article I read this morning said we have moved on from Gray and are discussing a Verlander-Wilson package with Detroit.

[WVastro]

The only problem with that move is making the damn Rangers better with our prospects. An article I read this morning said we have moved on from Gray and are discussing a Verlander-Wilson package with Detroit.

I want them to get the best starter available. I don't think that's Verlander. Plus, I'm not too confident about where he'll be in two years let alone later in this one. But Luhnow knows best.

[WVastro]

The only problem with that move is making the damn Rangers better with our prospects. An article I read this morning said we have moved on from Gray and are discussing a Verlander-Wilson package with Detroit.

A trade with the Dodgers makes the Rangers just as good as a trade with the Astros. I'd rather the Astros get Darvish.

[JimR]

A trade with the Dodgers makes the Rangers just as good as a trade with the Astros. I'd rather the Astros get Darvish.

We cannot control what other teams give them. This may be petty and short-sighted, but I do not want to see Kyle Tucker and Martes in a Rangers uniform.

[BudGirl]

We cannot control what other teams give them. This may be petty and short-sighted, but I do not want to see Kyle Tucker and Martes in a Rangers uniform.

I agree.  Not the Rangers. 

[Duke]

Fuck the Rinches!

[Ty in Tampa]

This may be petty and short-sighted, but I do not want to see Kyle Tucker and Martes in a Rangers uniform.

Here's to petty shortsightedness!

[Jacksonian]

Here's to petty shortsightedness!

Huzzah!!

[Navin R Johnson]

We cannot control what other teams give them. This may be petty and short-sighted, but I do not want to see Kyle Tucker and Martes in a Rangers uniform.

100% agree, I really dont want to see any of our top prospects playing with the Rangers.

[BlownRanger]

100% agree, I really dont want to see any of our top prospects playing with the Rangers.

That would be a dicey situation, but if the Astros were to include Tucker in a Darvish trade, and Yu kicked butt in helping Houston win the World Series, I wouldn't care if Kyle won the Triple Crown in Arlington.  A lot of conjecture there, though.

[WVastro]

That would be a dicey situation, but if the Astros were to include Tucker in a Darvish trade, and Yu kicked butt in helping Houston win the World Series, I wouldn't care if Kyle won the Triple Crown in Arlington.  A lot of conjecture there, though.

This is how I feel. If it requires top prospects to get a starting pitcher then I'd rather it be a true difference maker. I don't want to see Tucker headlining an incredible A's team any more than a Rangers team. But a playoff (if they're lucky enough to make it) rotation of Kuechel, Darvish, McCullers is far preferable (to me) than Kuechel, McCullers, Verlander/Gray.

[hostros7]

The Astros are not going to trade their best prospects to the Rangers for a rental.


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[JimR]

This is how I feel. If it requires top prospects to get a starting pitcher then I'd rather it be a true difference maker. I don't want to see Tucker headlining an incredible A's team any more than a Rangers team. But a playoff (if they're lucky enough to make it) rotation of Kuechel, Darvish, McCullers is far preferable (to me) than Kuechel, McCullers, Verlander/Gray.

You obviously do not hate the Rangers. I do. There is NO valid comparison to a trade with the As.

[BlownRanger]

You obviously do not hate the Rangers. I do. There is NO valid comparison to a trade with the As.

I hate the Rangers, but not to the extent that I would want it to interfere with what is best for the Astros.  And imagine how the Ranger fans would feel watching Yu dealing for the Astros in a World Series.

[JimR]

I hate the Rangers, but not to the extent that I would want it to interfere with what is best for the Astros.  And imagine how the Ranger fans would feel watching Yu dealing for the Astros in a World Series.

If we can get him without giving up our "untouchable," fine. I doubt we can.

[geezerdonk]

Is it permissible to negotiate an extension/new contract with Darvish pre-trade?

[WVastro]

You obviously do not hate the Rangers. I do. There is NO valid comparison to a trade with the As.

There are plenty of teams I hate. But if the Cardinals, Cubs, Rangers, Yankees, or Dodgers in any given year have the piece that the Astros need to make a legitamate push for a WS then my trusty "Give-a-Shitter" stops responding. I don't see a starter who's been at least mentioned to actually be on the market besides Darvish that makes this team a juggernaut. I simply can't get excited about Verlander... at all. Gray? Kinda...

Again, if Luhnow thinks Verlander is the right move I'll be on board. He knows his shit.

I REALLY would like to see the Astros win a WS before the Rangers and if Darvish makes that happen then they can have a few highly touted prospects. (It doesn't necessarily have to be Tucker)

[JimR]

There are plenty of teams I hate. But if the Cardinals, Cubs, Rangers, Yankees, or Dodgers in any given year have the piece that the Astros need to make a legitamate push for a WS then my trusty "Give-a-Shitter" stops responding. I don't see a starter who's been at least mentioned to actually be on the market besides Darvish that makes this team a juggernaut. I simply can't get excited about Verlander... at all. Gray? Kinda...

Again, if Luhnow thinks Verlander is the right move I'll be on board. He knows his shit.

I REALLY would like to see the Astros win a WS before the Rangers and if Darvish makes that happen then they can have a few highly touted prospects. (It doesn't necessarily have to be Tucker)

Once more: I am not against getting Darvish. I am against helping the Rangers with our BEST prospects. Also, Darvish is a rental.

[BlownRanger]

Right now, I'm not so sure Forrest Whitley isn't the player I would least like to see traded. 

[Navin R Johnson]

Darvish's worth would be 1-5 starts this post season.  Thats it.

That isn't worth any of the Astros top 5 prospects, going to the Rangers and them beat the Astros over the next 8-10 YEARS.

[astrosfan76]

Cardinals trade former Astros draft prospect and Hackgate poster-child Marco Gonzales to the Mariners in exchange for minor-leaguer Tyler O'Neill.

[jwhudson]

Darvish has never won a post season game.  Verlander has never won a world series game.  Gray pitched in one post season game his rookie season, and lost.

[doyce7]

Darvish has never won a post season game.  Verlander has never won a world series game.  Gray pitched in one post season game his rookie season, and lost.

Darvish has pitched in 2 games 1 good and 1 bad. Verlanders playoff numbers are pretty much in line with his career numbers. Gray actually pitched in 2 games and gave up 3 runs over 13 innings.

Take playoff stats with a grain of salt. Small sample size and sometimes other factors come into play, like pitching on short rest, pitching on too long a rest, or with injury.

Playoff stats should have no bearing on what the Astros do.

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[MusicMan]

Darvish has pitched in 2 games 1 good and 1 bad. Verlanders playoff numbers are pretty much in line with his career numbers. Gray actually pitched in 2 games and gave up 3 runs over 13 innings.

Take playoff stats with a grain of salt. Small sample size and sometimes other factors come into play, like pitching on short rest, pitching on too long a rest, or with injury.

Playoff stats should have no bearing on what the Astros do.

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Right. It's not like you'd say no to Kershaw just because of his playoff stats.


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[Nate Colbert]

Joel Sherman: ‘Scared’ teams running from Zach Britton blockbuster

Scout:
“But what scares me is the Orioles gave him all the time he needed to get healthy, gave him plenty of rehab outings and I am watching a guy who just pounded the bottom of the strike zone last year and now the ball is spraying all over the place too often.”

Team Executive:
“His salary is only going to climb (for 2018) and if he gets hurt in the next two months, which is a serious consideration, you probably have to non-tender him and not have him next year.”

[Andyzipp]

Cubs are looking hard at Darvish.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Is it permissible to negotiate an extension/new contract with Darvish pre-trade?

No. Also Darvish is determined to hit free agency and have teams bid on him. He has refused to entertain any extension offers from the Rangers.

[Fredia]

somewhat depending on how todays outing goes..might be leaning toward bull pen help

[astrosfan76]

Cubs are looking hard at Darvish.

FWIW, Darvish can block trades to the Cubs, Indians, A's, Orioles, Red Sox, Tigers, White Sox, Blue Jays, Pirates, and Rockies.   

[juliogotay]

No. Also Darvish is determined to hit free agency and have teams bid on him. He has refused to entertain any extension offers from the Rangers.

word here in Metroplex is that Darvish camp is keeping an eye on any deal Tanaka may get. Apparently they are competitive that way.

[austro]

I have zero confidence in Darvish. Maybe it's just my Rangers bias clowding my vision, but I expect him to shit the bed in a playoff start.

[JimR]

I have zero confidence in Darvish. Maybe it's just my Rangers bias clowding my vision, but I expect him to shit the bed in a playoff start.

I cannot imagine any circumstance causing the Rangers and Astros to be trade partners.

[geezerdonk]

No. Also Darvish is determined to hit free agency and have teams bid on him. He has refused to entertain any extension offers from the Rangers.

Much obliged.

[Nate Colbert]

"The Astros appeared to be making a serious push for Athletics righty Sonny Gray at one point this week, but they’re not aggressively involved in the sweepstakes for the 27-year-old right now, according to Rosenthal (FanRag’s Jon Heyman issued a similar report Thursday). Given the recent success of starters Mike Fiers and Brad Peacock, Houston could pursue an elite reliever instead of another piece for its rotation, suggests Rosenthal, who adds that prospect Derek Fisher will likely take over in left field next month if the team doesn’t trade him."

MLBTR

[MusicMan]

That last piece is strange... whose roster spot would he take?


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[WVastro]

That last piece is strange... whose roster spot would he take?


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I'm assuming it's talking about the expanded roster in a little over a month.

[Nate Colbert]

"Derek Fisher, if he's not traded, is likely to be the LF in August".

-What Rosenthal actually says in the video

[Lefty]

That last piece is strange... whose roster spot would he take?

Aoki is the only one that makes sense to me.

[JimR]

Aoki is the only one that makes sense to me.

Hope not

[Jacksonian]

"Derek Fisher, if he's not traded, is likely to be the LF in August".

-What Rosenthal actually says in the video

Rosenthal is not above idle speculation with no support.

[JimR]

Martes is our new Devo. Untouchable.

deGrom? Well, maybe.

[DVauthrin]

With McCullers looking terrible again today, starting pitching is definitely a need.

[Uncle Charlie]

With McCullers looking terrible again today, starting pitching is definitely a need.

Bullpen more tho. They're exhausted. Of the teams in contention for the playoffs, they have they are tied with the most number of relievers with 30+ appearances (7). Only CHI, MIN and MIL outpace on total appearances  and MIN and MIL on IP.

[JimR]

Bullpen more tho. They're exhausted. Of the teams in contention for the playoffs, they have they are tied with the most number of relievers with 30+ appearances (7). Only CHI, MIN and MIL outpace on total appearances  and MIN and MIL on IP.

The starters are causing that.

[Jacksonian]

The starters are causing that.

Keuchel's return won't help that if Peacock is sent to the bullpen.  LMJ, McHugh, and Morton have to eat more innings if they are going to stay in the rotation.

[juliogotay]

Keuchel's return won't help that if Peacock is sent to the bullpen.  LMJ, McHugh, and Morton have to eat more innings if they are going to stay in the rotation.

Or what? Who you going to replace them with?

[Jacksonian]

Or what? Who you going to replace them with?

No one.  A better way of saying it would have been to end it at innings.  LMJ, McHugh, and Morton have to eat more innings.  But I do realize that as unlikely as it may be Luhnow and Hinch may have other ideas.

[Uncle Charlie]

The starters are causing that.

Of course, but options there are limited and hopeful that can get better with K returning and McHugh still getting up to speed. One option is to get more bully help of course, the other is an innings eater

[Nate Colbert]

Joel Sherman  @Joelsherman1 1h ago
#Tigers scouts have been watching #Brewers #Astros systems could be about Verlander and/or Justin Wilson.

[DVauthrin]

Of course, but options there are limited and hopeful that can get better with K returning and McHugh still getting up to speed. One option is to get more bully help of course, the other is an innings eater

They need more than an innings eater when October rolls around.  You have Keuchel, who has missed two months with a neck issue and couldn't finish last season, McCullers has yet to throw 200 innings and is currently in a funk, and a bunch of 3rd-5th starters.  When it comes time to play Boston with Sale and Cleveland with Kluber and Carrasco, you can't rely on your offense to save the day.  They need a Sonny Gray or Verlander type.

As for the pen, provided Harris isn't seriously injured, they really only need a good left handed reliever like Wilson, Hand or Britton to get tough lefties out, and in Britton's case, give them a dominant closer.

[WVastro]

They need more than an innings eater when October rolls around.  You have Keuchel, who has missed two months with a neck issue and couldn't finish last season, McCullers has yet to throw 200 innings and is currently in a funk, and a bunch of 3rd-5th starters.  When it comes time to play Boston with Sale and Cleveland with Kluber and Carrasco, you can't rely on your offense to save the day.  They need a Sonny Gray or Verlander type.

As for the pen, provided Harris isn't seriously injured, they really only need a good left handed reliever like Wilson, Hand or Britton to get tough lefties out, and in Britton's case, give them a dominant closer.

I'm only curious and not asking in a smartass way... do you really think Verlander is still someone who could compete with Sale or Kluber? I don't see it myself. Gray might fit the bill... but I'm still not convinced.

[DVauthrin]

I'm only curious and not asking in a smartass way... do you really think Verlander is still someone who could compete with Sale or Kluber? I don't see it myself. Gray might fit the bill... but I'm still not convinced.

Keuchel, if healthy, is the guy that can matchup with Sale or Kluber. Verlander and Gray would be similar in quality to David Price or Carlos Carrasco. That said, both Gray and Verlandee have a better chance of giving you 6 or 7 innings allowing 3 or less runs than McHugh, Fiers, Morton, or Peacock in the playoffs, and actually winning a pitchers duel.  Verlander posted a 3.04 era and 1.00 whip just last season and 3.38 era and 1.09 whip in 2015.  His numbers are a bit skewed because he got lit up by the Astros for 6 runs, and the Indians crushed him for 7 runs and 9 runs in two separate starts. 

Last season Gray was horrible, but in 2015, he had a 2.73 era and 1.09 whip and in 2014 he had a 3.08 era, 1.19 whip.  The other nice thing is both of them have multiple 200 plus inning seasons under their belt.

[juliogotay]

Keuchel, if healthy, is the guy that can matchup with Sale or Kluber. Verlander and Gray would be similar in quality to David Price or Carlos Carrasco. That said, both Gray and Verlandee have a better chance of giving you 6 or 7 innings allowing 3 or less runs than McHugh, Fiers, Morton, or Peacock in the playoffs, and actually winning a pitchers duel.  Verlander posted a 3.04 era and 1.00 whip just last season and 3.38 era and 1.09 whip in 2015.  His numbers are a bit skewed because he got lit up by the Astros for 6 runs, and the Indians crushed him for 7 runs and 9 runs in two separate starts. 

Last season Gray was horrible, but in 2015, he had a 2.73 era and 1.09 whip and in 2014 he had a 3.08 era, 1.19 whip.  The other nice thing is both of them have multiple 200 plus inning seasons under their belt.

So, Gray and Verlander were good as recently as 2015. Hmmmm, I'll keep my powder dry.

[DVauthrin]

So, Gray and Verlander were good as recently as 2015. Hmmmm, I'll keep my powder dry.

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that Verlander posted a 3.04 era and 1.00 whip last season? Or the fact that Gray is pitching well this year and was a top of the rotation quality starter in 2014 and 2015.  He, like Keuchel, was hurt last year.

[WVastro]

Keuchel, if healthy, is the guy that can matchup with Sale or Kluber. Verlander and Gray would be similar in quality to David Price or Carlos Carrasco. That said, both Gray and Verlandee have a better chance of giving you 6 or 7 innings allowing 3 or less runs than McHugh, Fiers, Morton, or Peacock in the playoffs, and actually winning a pitchers duel.  Verlander posted a 3.04 era and 1.00 whip just last season and 3.38 era and 1.09 whip in 2015.  His numbers are a bit skewed because he got lit up by the Astros for 6 runs, and the Indians crushed him for 7 runs and 9 runs in two separate starts. 

Last season Gray was horrible, but in 2015, he had a 2.73 era and 1.09 whip and in 2014 he had a 3.08 era, 1.19 whip.  The other nice thing is both of them have multiple 200 plus inning seasons under their belt.

Thanks!

I think I'm more interested in Gray but if our scouts and brass think Verlander is worth it... well....

By the way... Sports bar name? "Scouts and Brass"

[Uncle Charlie]

They need more than an innings eater when October rolls around.  You have Keuchel, who has missed two months with a neck issue and couldn't finish last season, McCullers has yet to throw 200 innings and is currently in a funk, and a bunch of 3rd-5th starters.  When it comes time to play Boston with Sale and Cleveland with Kluber and Carrasco, you can't rely on your offense to save the day.  They need a Sonny Gray or Verlander type.

As for the pen, provided Harris isn't seriously injured, they really only need a good left handed reliever like Wilson, Hand or Britton to get tough lefties out, and in Britton's case, give them a dominant closer.

The innings eater isn't about playoff starts. It's about providing rest to the pen and other starters. Getting to the playoffs healthy is the goal. After that you have to look at your team differently. A 4/5 starter may not matter much and may not even make the playoff roster!

[juliogotay]

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that Verlander posted a 3.04 era and 1.00 whip last season? Or the fact that Gray is pitching well this year and was a top of the rotation quality starter in 2014 and 2015.  He, like Keuchel, was hurt last year.

I didn't miss anything. I'm just not that sold on these two and you didn't convince me it would be a good idea. Maybe Gray if the give-up was fair but Verlander, not so much.

[DVauthrin]

Thanks!

I think I'm more interested in Gray but if our scouts and brass think Verlander is worth it... well....

By the way... Sports bar name? "Scouts and Brass"

I, too, would rather have Gray.  He's 27 (Verlander is 33) and under club control through the end of 2019.  He also is cheaper than Verlander from a contract perspective unless the Tigers eat a lot of salary.  But I could see the Tigers taking a lesser prospect return for Verlander because he makes $28 million in each of the next two seasons.

[DVauthrin]

I didn't miss anything.

Verlander had a Cy Young caliber year last season, and yet you said "Gray and Verlander were good as recently as 2015."  Hence my comment. 

[DVauthrin]

The innings eater isn't about playoff starts. It's about providing rest to the pen and other starters. Getting to the playoffs healthy is the goal. After that you have to look at your team differently. A 4/5 starter may not matter much and may not even make the playoff roster!

Someone whose only redeeming skill is eating innings (see Samardzja) isn't worth giving up much for.  That type of pitcher isn't an upgrade over Fiers, Peacock and McHugh.  They need a number two or three quality pitcher to slot behind Keuchel. 

[DVauthrin]

I didn't miss anything. I'm just not that sold on these two and you didn't convince me it would be a good idea. Maybe Gray if the give-up was fair but Verlander, not so much.

All I'm saying is if the price is right, I would feel a lot more comfortable with Gray or Verlander starting an important playoff game than  Fiers, Morton, McHugh or Peacock. 

[WVastro]

All I'm saying is if the price is right, I would feel a lot more comfortable with Gray or Verlander starting an important playoff game than  Fiers, Morton, McHugh or Peacock.

I'd only leave McHugh off that list. If he's healthy from here on out I don't mind him being in the discussion. But I am a McHugh homer...

[DVauthrin]

I'd only leave McHugh off that list. If he's healthy from here on out I don't mind him being in the discussion. But I am a McHugh homer...

You aren't being much of a homer when it comes to McHugh.  He's a solid 3rd starter who can pitch like a number 2 if healthy and pitching well.  IMHO, Gray and Verlander are a tier above him though.

[JimR]

Keuchel, if healthy, is the guy that can matchup with Sale or Kluber. Verlander and Gray would be similar in quality to David Price or Carlos Carrasco. That said, both Gray and Verlandee have a better chance of giving you 6 or 7 innings allowing 3 or less runs than McHugh, Fiers, Morton, or Peacock in the playoffs, and actually winning a pitchers duel.  Verlander posted a 3.04 era and 1.00 whip just last season and 3.38 era and 1.09 whip in 2015.  His numbers are a bit skewed because he got lit up by the Astros for 6 runs, and the Indians crushed him for 7 runs and 9 runs in two separate starts. 

Last season Gray was horrible, but in 2015, he had a 2.73 era and 1.09 whip and in 2014 he had a 3.08 era, 1.19 whip.  The other nice thing is both of them have multiple 200 plus inning seasons under their belt.

You know what is not relevant? Any year before 2017.

[jaklewein]

Given all that has been put out there about the extremely steep price that must be paid on the open market for SP-ing, I'm starting to feel that Luhnow is going to make the best deal he can to add a piece to the bully, and that is it.  I'm wondering if the fallback plan is to string Martes along in the pen, keeping his IP'd low until say Sept and see how he fares.  If he fares well, he may be their, "catch lighting in a bottle" #2 or #3 SP in the playoffs. 

[Mr. Happy]

Verlander had a Cy Young caliber year last season, and yet you said "Gray and Verlander were good as recently as 2015."  Hence my comment.

I saw damn near every one of Verlander's starts last season. He started out horribly, but he finished the season with excellent numbers. His velocity, and this includes this year, still hops up to 97-98 when he needs it. I'd take Verlander.

[BudGirl]

I saw damn near every one of Verlander's starts last season. He started out horribly, but he finished the season with excellent numbers. His velocity, and this includes this year, still hops up to 97-98 when he needs it. I'd take Verlander.

This is the first assessment I've read that makes me think Verlander would be a good pick-up.

[Duman]

Last 30 days:

Pitcher A: 6 starts 36 1/3 IP 38 H, 18 ER, 5 HR, 14 BB, 34 K, 4.46 ERA, 1.43 WHIP
Pitcher B: 5 starts  29 2/3 IP, 21 H, 10 ER, 3 HR, 4 BB, 40 K, 3.03 ERA, 1.04 WHIP

Which one do you want? 

[Mr. Happy]

Last 30 days:

Pitcher A: 6 starts 36 1/3 IP 38 H, 18 ER, 5 HR, 14 BB, 34 K, 4.46 ERA, 1.43 WHIP
Pitcher B: 5 starts  29 2/3 IP, 21 H, 10 ER, 3 HR, 4 BB, 40 K, 3.03 ERA, 1.04 WHIP

Which one do you want?

Given that Verlander is 5-7 4.50 for the season, I assume that he's pitcher A?

[MusicMan]

I'd take pitcher B, who I assume is Fiers.


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[Jacksonian]

Last 30 days:

Pitcher A: 6 starts 36 1/3 IP 38 H, 18 ER, 5 HR, 14 BB, 34 K, 4.46 ERA, 1.43 WHIP
Pitcher B: 5 starts  29 2/3 IP, 21 H, 10 ER, 3 HR, 4 BB, 40 K, 3.03 ERA, 1.04 WHIP

Which one do you want?

I know pitcher A is Verlander, but in his 3 starts after the all-star break he's: 3.26ERA, 19.1IP, 14H, 7ER, 3HR, 6BB, 22K, .200BA, 1.03WHIP.

This season I'd rather have the guy with the track record and still having quality stuff than Fiers.

[Mr. Happy]

I know pitcher A is Verlander, but in his 3 starts after the all-star break he's: 3.26ERA, 19.1IP, 14H, 7ER, 3HR, 6BB, 22K, .200BA, 1.03WHIP.

This season I'd rather have the guy with the track record and still having quality stuff than Fiers.

And he's got significant playoff experience.

[BudGirl]

Pitcher C:  33.1 IP, 18 H, 6 ER, 7 BB, 27 K, 1.62 ERA, 0.75 WHIP  ?

[Jacksonian]

Pitcher C:  33.1 IP, 18 H, 6 ER, 7 BB, 27 K, 1.62 ERA, 0.75 WHIP  ?

That's Gray, right?

[BudGirl]

That's Gray, right?

yes, he's doing pretty well.  I think he would poop rainbows to go from the A's to the Astros.

[Duman]

Pitcher C:  33.1 IP, 18 H, 6 ER, 7 BB, 27 K, 1.62 ERA, 0.75 WHIP  ?

Yes, A is Verlander and B is Fiers.  I assume C is Gray.   BTW I take credit for his improvement since I traded in the fantasy league.  Change of scenery and all.

[BudGirl]

Yes, A is Verlander and B is Fiers.  I assume C is Gray.   BTW I take credit for his improvement since I traded in the fantasy league.  Change of scenery and all.

Have any Astros pitchers you need to trade?  McCullers maybe?

[Duman]

Have any Astros pitchers you need to trade?  McCullers maybe?

Just traded for Morton.  I'll see if I can avoid cursing him.

[Navin R Johnson]

My worry about Verlander is his contract, not so much for next year by $28 million in 2019 when Keuchel is a FA, and a bunch of  arbitrations, Marwin is a FA and I think that is about when Altuve's contract runs out.   Then another 22 mil in 2020, as a 37 year old.

[Jacksonian]

My worry about Verlander is his contract, not so much for next year by $28 million in 2019 when Keuchel is a FA, and a bunch of  arbitrations, Marwin is a FA and I think that is about when Altuve's contract runs out.   Then another 22 mil in 2020, as a 37 year old.

2020 is an option year.  If the Astros deal for him I'll presume they are willing to spend enough to keep a quality product on the field.

[Lefty]

I'll presume they are willing to spend enough to keep a quality product on the field.

I'll do the same until I see otherwise.

[Navin R Johnson]

2019. 
Under Contract, Reddick and Yuli  combined $24. 
FA, Keuchel, Marwin, Altuve.   What is that worth, $60?
Arb 3.  Springer, Mchugh, Fiers, Marisnick.   Springer would be looking at 15, the others might be replaced by cheaper younger options.
Arb 2 Giles, McCullers, Peacock, That is probably $20 million
Arb 1. Correa, Devenski, Feliz. ~15 million.

That is ~130 if you let McHuch, Fiers and Marisnick walk.    They'd still need a LF (seems like good young options in the minors for that, at least as of today).  Catcher, both Gattis and McCann will be FA in 2019, are 1/2 of the young guys ready to catch by then?  Some young starters, lots of options there, Martes, Musgrove, several guys in AA/AAA.

The good news, the league average Payroll right now is ~150, Im guessing by 2019 it is 160.   You'd think the Astros could afford to be on par with the or close to Arlington, their payroll is ~190.   If they are willing to go to ~190 absorbing someone like Verlander seems more doable.

[HudsonHawk]

2019. 
Under Contract, Reddick and Yuli  combined $24. 
FA, Keuchel, Marwin, Altuve.   What is that worth, $60?
Arb 3.  Springer, Mchugh, Fiers, Marisnick.   Springer would be looking at 15, the others might be replaced by cheaper younger options.
Arb 2 Giles, McCullers, Peacock, That is probably $20 million
Arb 1. Correa, Devenski, Feliz. ~15 million.

That is ~130 if you let McHuch, Fiers and Marisnick walk.    They'd still need a LF (seems like good young options in the minors for that, at least as of today).  Catcher, both Gattis and McCann will be FA in 2019, are 1/2 of the young guys ready to catch by then?  Some young starters, lots of options there, Martes, Musgrove, several guys in AA/AAA.

The good news, the league average Payroll right now is ~150, Im guessing by 2019 it is 160.   You'd think the Astros could afford to be on par with the or close to Arlington, their payroll is ~190.   If they are willing to go to ~190 absorbing someone like Verlander seems more doable.

Worrying about what you're gonna do in 2020 is insane, IMO.  If Verlander is available right now, what you're gonna do with Brad Peacock in 2020 should never even enter the universe of the decision equation. 

[Jacksonian]

Worrying about what you're gonna do in 2020 is insane, IMO.  If Verlander is available right now, what you're gonna do with Brad Peacock in 2020 should never even enter the universe of the decision equation.

Right.  And if you get Verlander you're likely getting Justin Wilson too.

[Navin R Johnson]

Worrying about what you're gonna do in 2020 is insane, IMO.  If Verlander is available right now, what you're gonna do with Brad Peacock in 2020 should never even enter the universe of the decision equation. 

2019, not 2020.   I did the exercise mainly because I was curious who all would be where in terms of FA in 2 years.   And it turns out the team shouldn't be too hamstrung then to spend, unless they are unwilling to be a top 15 payroll team.

[Lefty]

I did the exercise mainly because I was curious who all would be where in terms of FA in 2 years.   And it turns out the team shouldn't be too hamstrung then to spend, unless they are unwilling to be a top 15 payroll team.

Thanks for that, I hadn't seen everything laid out in one place.

[HudsonHawk]

2019, not 2020.   I did the exercise mainly because I was curious who all would be where in terms of FA in 2 years.   And it turns out the team shouldn't be too hamstrung then to spend, unless they are unwilling to be a top 15 payroll team.

Ok, 2019.  Wondering about what to do with Peacock, or Fiers, or Marwin, or Marisnick in 2019 should never enter your thinking about acquiring Verlander today.  And I appreciate long term thinking, but you win now.  This is not a "worry about the future" kind of season. 

[BudGirl]

I agree with the win now.  You may never have an offense hitting on all cylinders like they are again.  Even though I feel we will expect it next season.

[MusicMan]

Hopefully Luhnow has some economists in that think tank.
"In the long run, we're all dead."


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[BlownRanger]

Hopefully Luhnow has some economists in that think tank.
"In the long run, we're all dead."


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As long as there's no one in that tank pushing the "let's stand pat and hang onto ALL our prospects!" line.

[juliogotay]

Hopefully Luhnow has some economists in that think tank.
"In the long run, we're all dead."


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The $$ part is Reid Ryan's job. And I say this because I heard an interview with him a couple of years ago and he indicated they would be very competitive from a payroll standpoint as the team progressed.

[Navin R Johnson]

I'm sure nobody is, lets stand pat.   The question is what their risk tolerance level is.   I think mine is slightly lower than most here.

I'm all for trading for Verlander or Gray or Britton or insert lefty reliever here.   But I wouldn't give up, Martes, Tucker, Fisher & Whitley for one of those starters.      Fisher and 1 other from that list and then throw in a lower level prospect, is where I am at.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

2019! What makes you think the world wont end before?  Must. Win. Now. Actually I like thinking ahead too. The privilege of a strong farm system.

[Nate Colbert]

Feinsand:

"Multiple sources indicated Tuesday that the Yankees were making progress toward a deal with Oakland, which could send not only Gray -- who was slated to start for the A's on Tuesday in Toronto -- but also first baseman Yonder Alonso to New York."

[NeilT]

Feinsand:

"Multiple sources indicated Tuesday that the Yankees were making progress toward a deal with Oakland, which could send not only Gray -- who was slated to start for the A's on Tuesday in Toronto -- but also first baseman Yonder Alonso to New York."

I bet somebody in Oakland is winding up to say go yonder, Alonso. 

[Lefty]

I bet somebody in Oakland is winding up to say go yonder, Alonso. 

I'm sure both of their fans (but that's a gray area) have thought of that already.

[Nate Colbert]

Not that one start is meaningful, but Gray certainly didn't disappoint possible suitors with tonight's outing: 6 innings, zero earned runs, 9 whiffs.

[Nate Colbert]

Susan Slusser, SF Chronicle:

"Tuesday at Rogers Center, seven teams had scouts on had to watch Gray: the Yankees, who are making a strong push for the right-hander, along with the Cubs, Dodgers, Brewers, Pirates, Indians and Royals. The Astros remain one of the frontrunners to land Gray, but the AL West leaders have seen so much of Gray that they don’t need to scout him at this point."

[austro]

Susan Slusser, SF Chronicle:

"Tuesday at Rogers Center, seven teams had scouts on had to watch Gray: the Yankees, who are making a strong push for the right-hander, along with the Cubs, Dodgers, Brewers, Pirates, Indians and Royals. The Astros remain one of the frontrunners to land Gray, but the AL West leaders have seen so much of Gray that they don’t need to scout him at this point."

Fuck the fucking Yankees.

[Nate Colbert]

Joel Sherman:

"If they are going to move him, the A’s would almost certainly prefer not to incur the peril of letting him make his next scheduled start, Sunday, the day before the deadline. That is why the perception is growing in the industry of Oakland pushing for final and best offers from teams, with the belief the Yankees are sitting on the best bid and the A’s wanting to see if another club will top it or the Yankees will push even more into their package."

[JimR]

Joel Sherman:

"If they are going to move him, the A’s would almost certainly prefer not to incur the peril of letting him make his next scheduled start, Sunday, the day before the deadline. That is why the perception is growing in the industry of Oakland pushing for final and best offers from teams, with the belief the Yankees are sitting on the best bid and the A’s wanting to see if another club will top it or the Yankees will push even more into their package."

If Gray is our primary target, and who the hell knows, the Yankees moving in and driving the price beyond what we will pay will be frustrating as hell. If Luhnow stands pat, I will be astonished and aghast.

[BlownRanger]

Fuck the fucking Yankees.

Gray might very well end up a Yankee, but this happens quite often at the deadline.  As soon as a report emerges that the Yankees are interested in someone, the media convinces themselves that it's all but a done deal.  If it doesn't happen, there will probably be reports that "Cashman had second thoughts".

The Astros have the prospects to compete for any player they desire.  Unless Luhnow honestly thinks they can get to the World Series with the current pitching staff, I have a hard time believing he won't do what's necessary to add the guns.

[Jacksonian]

So the Brewers just got this guy, http://m.mlb.com/player/461872/anthony-swarzak, from the White Sox for the equivalent of Teoscar Hernandez.

[Navin R Johnson]

So the Brewers just got this guy, http://m.mlb.com/player/461872/anthony-swarzak, from the White Sox for the equivalent of Teoscar Hernandez.

For 3 months.   

But yeah, if the rental price for a solid reliever is Teoscar, I am down.

[BlownRanger]

For 3 months.   

But yeah, if the rental price for a solid reliever is Teoscar, I am down.

It would cost more than Teoscar, but I think Brad Hand to Houston is a distinct possibility.

[Jacksonian]

For 3 months.   

But yeah, if the rental price for a solid reliever is Teoscar, I am down.

A lefty will cost more.  Are any of the lefty relievers that have been discussed rentals or are they all controllable?

[Nate Colbert]

A lefty will cost more.  Are any of the lefty relievers that have been discussed rentals or are they all controllable?

Wilson 1 year of control, Hand 2 years of control.

[Jacksonian]

Wilson 1 year of control, Hand 2 years of control.

They'll be in Detroit this weekend, but Teo alone won't get it done.

[Fynn]

Luhnow on 790 this morning covered several topics.  McCullers and his command was discussed-Luhnow felt it is due to his long layoff-just needs some more innings.
Re  trade deadline, Luhnow really addressed the crux of the matter.  He said they would make a trade if it made sense to do so, but he is equally looking at the next few years when a number of contracts will need to be sorted out.  They are hamstrung with the media contract for the next decade or so, so he is not willing to make a big splash for the short term.  The Cardinals were mentioned as a model which he believes in-not many big trades but a solid product every year.
Very lucid plan.  Love it.

[JimR]

Luhnow on 790 this morning covered several topics.  McCullers and his command was discussed-Luhnow felt it is due to his long layoff-just needs some more innings.
Re  trade deadline, Luhnow really addressed the crux of the matter.  He said they would make a trade if it made sense to do so, but he is equally looking at the next few years when a number of contracts will need to be sorted out.  They are hamstrung with the media contract for the next decade or so, so he is not willing to make a big splash for the short term.  The Cardinals were mentioned as a model which he believes in-not many big trades but a solid product every year.
Very lucid plan.  Love it.

If he stands pat, you won't love it. We won't win, and this team will resent his not doing all he can to win this year.

[astrosfan76]

The Cardinals were mentioned as a model which he believes in-not many big trades but a solid product every year.

This is a year to make a Matt Holiday-esque trade, then.  Or, even a John Lackey trade.  Other teams will get better, we need to, as well.  If he's alluding to taking on a contract like Verlander's, I understand his reasoning.  But, he has to take advantage of what he has this season.

[BudGirl]

This is a year to make a Matt Holiday-esque trade, then.  Or, even a John Lackey trade.  Other teams will get better, we need to, as well.  If he's alluding to taking on a contract like Verlander's, I understand his reasoning.  But, he has to take advantage of what he has this season.

Crane has to pony up to win too.

[The Spleen]

Luhnow on 790 this morning covered several topics.  McCullers and his command was discussed-Luhnow felt it is due to his long layoff-just needs some more innings.
Re  trade deadline, Luhnow really addressed the crux of the matter.  He said they would make a trade if it made sense to do so, but he is equally looking at the next few years when a number of contracts will need to be sorted out.  They are hamstrung with the media contract for the next decade or so, so he is not willing to make a big splash for the short term.  The Cardinals were mentioned as a model which he believes in-not many big trades but a solid product every year.
Very lucid plan.  Love it.

It sounds like a lot of this is Crane talking through Luhnow. But this is not "the short term." This is a guy who's supposedly waited his whole life to own a major league team, who's looking at a historic opportunity, one that few owners will ever get... and he's crying poor.

This roster as constructed could certainly win a World Series... if it was healthy and rested (by late season standards) going into October. But it's now almost certain they will be neither. The team has done an absolutely heroic job playing through terrible luck, but they're going to need help making it to the end.

[JimR]

I hope Luhnow is just posturing for whatever effect it has on negotiations.

[doyce7]

I'm starting to wonder if the 2015 trade deadline is making luhnow a bit gun shy right now.

There comes a time when you HAVE to make moves to maximise your chances to win and this year is one of those times. It might be painful to lose some of the farm, but you have to take some risks.

I will be livid if they stand pat.

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[Navin R Johnson]

Luhnow playing poker?  Sounds like a guy that is trying to call other guys bluffs.

At the very least we need to add some arms for the pen.   

When it comes to starters I will defer.   They have scouts who are feeding them info.   If they don't think the limited available starters are good enough vs the price that is being asked, I won't blame them for emptying the top 1/3 of the farm system to acquire a guy who might pitch well in 1-6 games in the playoffs.

[Navin R Johnson]

Timely.   Just saw this on twitters dot com.

Available lefty relievers.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/trade-market-for-left-handed-relievers-3.html

[Lefty]

I hope Luhnow is just posturing for whatever effect it has on negotiations.

I hope he's doing his due diligence and will make the best possible deal(s) to help this team.   

I'm ready for Aug 1st.

[astrosfan76]

Crane has to pony up to win too.

Could be Crane's influence.  But, it seems like he's been more willing than Luhnow to push the payroll in recent years.  At the least, he's been more anxious about making trades for the now.     

[WVastro]

Jeff Samardzija doesn't want to be an Astro:

Jeff Samardzija Unlikely To Waive No-Trade Clause
https://mlb.traderumors.com/2017/07/giants-trade-rumors-jeff-samardzija-no-trade-clause.html

Good. I don't want him to be an Astro. I also don't want to have to spell his name correctly again.

[Lefty]

Jeff Samardzija doesn't want to be an Astro:

Jeff Samardzija Unlikely To Waive No-Trade Clause
https://mlb.traderumors.com/2017/07/giants-trade-rumors-jeff-samardzija-no-trade-clause.html

Good. I don't want him to be an Astro. I also don't want to have to spell his name correctly again.

I've disliked that guy since his flowing Notre Dame football mullet days.

[Jacksonian]

Good. I don't want him to be an Astro. I also don't want to have to spell his name correctly again.

If I typed Samsjdjdbcb you'd know who I'm talking about.

IOW, don't sweat the details.

[Nate Colbert]

Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal 11m
Sources confirm: #Nationals in on Gray, as @jonmorosi said. Deal might hinge on whether WAS would move Robles.

That would be OF Victor Robles (5th ranked on MLB.com's Top 100 Prospects), the Nats equivalent (if not greater) of Kyle Tucker.

[Jacksonian]

Rockies traded for Neshek.

[NeilT]

Rockies traded for Neshek.

Good for Neshek. What a fun pitcher to watch.


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[juliogotay]

Good for Neshek. What a fun pitcher to watch.


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A good pick-up for that ballpark.

[toddthebod]

Never thought I'd say this.  But I agree with Lupica.  You don't get a lot of chances to win it all. 

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/244535642/houston-astros-trade-deadline-postseason

The Astros made a smart decision to trade for Randy Johnson even though it meant giving up Carlos Guillen, Freddy Garcia, and John Halama.

As a reminder here was BA's top ten list for the year prior to the trade:

Richard Hidalgo, of
Scott Elarton, rhp
Wade Miller, rhp
Lance Berkman, of
Daryle Ward, 1b
Freddy Garcia, rhp
Carlos Guillen, ss
John Halama, lhp
Ramon Castro, c
Mark Johnson, rhp

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/top-10-prospect-rankings-archives/#7ErhXJSgmfe6uyFC.97

The Astros gave up their #6-8 prospects to get Johnson. 

Are Grey or Verlander Randy Johnson?  Of course not.  But they are also not rentals.

So if you tell me that the Astros would have to give up a lot to get Grey and Britton (in two trades) or Verlander and Wilson -- Okay.  Do it.     

[MusicMan]

Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal 11m
Sources confirm: #Nationals in on Gray, as @jonmorosi said. Deal might hinge on whether WAS would move Robles.

That would be OF Victor Robles (5th ranked on MLB.com's Top 100 Prospects), the Nats equivalent (if not greater) of Kyle Tucker.

He retracted this this morning, saying he misunderstood his source.


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[juliogotay]

Never thought I'd say this.  But I agree with Lupica.  You don't get a lot of chances to win it all. 

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/244535642/houston-astros-trade-deadline-postseason

The Astros made a smart decision to trade for Randy Johnson even though it meant giving up Carlos Guillen, Freddy Garcia, and John Halama.

As a reminder here was BA's top ten list for the year prior to the trade:

Richard Hidalgo, of
Scott Elarton, rhp
Wade Miller, rhp
Lance Berkman, of
Daryle Ward, 1b
Freddy Garcia, rhp
Carlos Guillen, ss
John Halama, lhp
Ramon Castro, c
Mark Johnson, rhp

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/top-10-prospect-rankings-archives/#7ErhXJSgmfe6uyFC.97

The Astros gave up their #6-8 prospects to get Johnson. 

Are Grey or Verlander Randy Johnson?  Of course not.  But they are also not rentals.

So if you tell me that the Astros would have to give up a lot to get Grey and Britton (in two trades) or Verlander and Wilson -- Okay.  Do it.   

that was a deep prospect list. Ultimately outside of Berkman, Hidalgo and Miller they didn't contribute that much to clubs' success.

[Bench]

that was a deep prospect list.

Thanks Gerry.

[Jacksonian]

Rays get Dan Jennings, http://m.mlb.com/player/543359/dan-jennings, for basically the equivalent of A.J. Reed.

[Navin R Johnson]

Never thought I'd say this.  But I agree with Lupica.  You don't get a lot of chances to win it all. 

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/244535642/houston-astros-trade-deadline-postseason

The Astros made a smart decision to trade for Randy Johnson even though it meant giving up Carlos Guillen, Freddy Garcia, and John Halama.

As a reminder here was BA's top ten list for the year prior to the trade:

Richard Hidalgo, of
Scott Elarton, rhp
Wade Miller, rhp
Lance Berkman, of
Daryle Ward, 1b
Freddy Garcia, rhp
Carlos Guillen, ss
John Halama, lhp
Ramon Castro, c
Mark Johnson, rhp

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/top-10-prospect-rankings-archives/#7ErhXJSgmfe6uyFC.97

The Astros gave up their #6-8 prospects to get Johnson. 

Are Grey or Verlander Randy Johnson?  Of course not.  But they are also not rentals.

So if you tell me that the Astros would have to give up a lot to get Grey and Britton (in two trades) or Verlander and Wilson -- Okay.  Do it.     

I'm 100% sure that if the current #6-8 prospects (Alvarez, Moran, Paulino) would land the Astros a front of the line, big time arm, Luhnow would have done it yesterday.   That isn't the asking price now, to put it in 1998 terms teams are asking for Hidalgo, Berkman and Wade Miller....

[das]

...who's looking at a historic opportunity, one that few owners will ever get... and he's crying poor.

This is unfair speculation on your part stated as fact.  You have no idea what Crane is saying internally and, looking at recent positive actions regarding payroll, they are exactly in line with what he has indeed said publicly. 

[BlownRanger]

This is unfair speculation on your part stated as fact.  You have no idea what Crane is saying internally and, looking at recent positive actions regarding payroll, they are exactly in line with what he has indeed said publicly.

Agreed. 

I don't know how tuned to the organization's thinking Todd Kalas is, but I thought it was interesting that after the Luhnow interview last night, he wasn't talking in terms of "if" the Astros make a deal.  He seemed to consider it a foregone conclusion.  Something like "Astros fans need to realize that somebody who's in line to be a star at the big league level is going to be in someone else's organization next week".

Include me in the group that will be astounded if Luhnow doesn't make a deal (or deals).  I still expect to wake up Tuesday morning with Hand or Wilson on the Astros.

[Navin R Johnson]

I have heard Luhnow bring up feeling burned in 2015 by  trading for Kazmir to early.   He talks about how he didn't realize so many front line guys would be come available later.  All of Cueoto, Hammels Price went closer to the deadline.

Cueto was acquired for the Royals 4th, 10th, 25th prospects.  Astros equivalent,  So Perez, Teoscar and so lower level kid.
Price went for Toronto's #1 pitching prospect a mid level pitching prospect and one lower level.  So Martes, Cionel Perez and a lower level arm. 
Hamels was dealt for RHP Jake Thompson No. 2 #Rangers prospect, C Jorge Alfaro No. 3, OF Nick Williams No. 5. All to PHI, plus 2 other lower level guys.    So the Astros equivalent, Whitely, Derek FIsher and Franklin Perez and 2 lower level pitchers.

How do those trades look now?
Cueto Trade:
Royals: Cueto helped the Royals win the World Series, left for FA at the years end.
Reds:  Got one young solid starter, Brandon Finnegan

Price trade
Toronto. Price pitched 11 games in the regular season Jays with 9-2 in those Price had a 2.30 ERA.   Post season He made 4 starts, Jays went 1-3 in those starts while Price sported in 6.17 ERA in 22 innings.  In his 4 starts he allowed, 5,3,5, & 3 earned runs.   Jays bombed out in the ALCS
Detroit,  the jewel of the trade was highly rated Daniel Norris, he has started 41 games for the Tigers, he is 10-10 with a 4.29 ERA, the other 2 guys they acquired look to be fringe MLB guys at best.

Hamels
Rangers:  Hamels is now 27-7 with a 3.53 ERA in 3 seasons. In 2015 the Rangers went 10-2 down the stretch when he started, and he had a 3.66 ERA.   In the Playoffs he pitched twice in the ALDS, which the Rangers lost.  He has also pitched once in the ALDS in 2016.   He had 2 good, not great starts in 2015 and was absolutely hammered in his 1 start in 2016.
Phillies.   Their haul includes their current #5 & #8 prospects, none of the other guys have done much or have been released or traded.

[Jacksonian]

Cueto was acquired for the Royals 4th, 10th, 25th prospects.  Astros equivalent,  So Perez, Teoscar and so lower level kid.

At the time that would have been the equivalent of Feliz, Musgrove, and Jason Martin.

[JimR]

I have heard Luhnow bring up feeling burned in 2015 by  trading for Kazmir to early.   He talks about how he didn't realize so many front line guys would be come available later.  All of Cueoto, Hammels Price went closer to the deadline.

Cueto was acquired for the Royals 4th, 10th, 25th prospects.  Astros equivalent,  So Perez, Teoscar and so lower level kid.
Price went for Toronto's #1 pitching prospect a mid level pitching prospect and one lower level.  So Martes, Cionel Perez and a lower level arm. 
Hamels was dealt for RHP Jake Thompson No. 2 #Rangers prospect, C Jorge Alfaro No. 3, OF Nick Williams No. 5. All to PHI, plus 2 other lower level guys.    So the Astros equivalent, Whitely, Derek FIsher and Franklin Perez and 2 lower level pitchers.

How do those trades look now?
Cueto Trade:
Royals: Cueto helped the Royals win the World Series, left for FA at the years end.
Reds:  Got one young solid starter, Brandon Finnegan

Price trade
Toronto. Price pitched 11 games in the regular season Jays with 9-2 in those Price had a 2.30 ERA.   Post season He made 4 starts, Jays went 1-3 in those starts while Price sported in 6.17 ERA in 22 innings.  In his 4 starts he allowed, 5,3,5, & 3 earned runs.   Jays bombed out in the ALCS
Detroit,  the jewel of the trade was highly rated Daniel Norris, he has started 41 games for the Tigers, he is 10-10 with a 4.29 ERA, the other 2 guys they acquired look to be fringe MLB guys at best.

Hamels
Rangers:  Hamels is now 27-7 with a 3.53 ERA in 3 seasons. In 2015 the Rangers went 10-2 down the stretch when he started, and he had a 3.66 ERA.   In the Playoffs he pitched twice in the ALDS, which the Rangers lost.  He has also pitched once in the ALDS in 2016.   He had 2 good, not great starts in 2015 and was absolutely hammered in his 1 start in 2016.
Phillies.   Their haul includes their current #5 & #8 prospects, none of the other guys have done much or have been released or traded.

The Phillies wanted to trade Hamels to Houston, but he said no.

[hostros7]

The Phillies wanted to trade Hamels to Houston, but he said no.

That's generally common knowledge around here. It's a particularly rough event when one considers that the Gomez/Fiers deal would have likely never happened if Hamels had agreed to the deal. But, fuck him, he didn't want to be on this team, so enjoy wearing your white suede loafers in Dallas 18 games back.

[Navin R Johnson]

I remember the Hamels deal, anyone remember who we were going to offer, or did it not even get that far.   Also Fuck Hamels.

[toddthebod]

that was a deep prospect list. Ultimately outside of Berkman, Hidalgo and Miller they didn't contribute that much to clubs' success.

I was thinking that myself. 

[Nate Colbert]

Anthony Fenech:

Yankees interested in Justin Wilson. Tigers asking for an return "more in line" with the Aroldis Chapman trade.

[JimR]

Anthony Fenech:

Yankees interested in Justin Wilson. Tigers asking for an return "more in line" with the Aroldis Chapman trade.

I think the Yankees are following the Astros around.

[JimR]

I remember the Hamels deal, anyone remember who we were going to offer, or did it not even get that far.   Also Fuck Hamels.

It got that far because the Phillies preferred the Astros' offer. I have never seen who they were.

[JJxvi]

I would assume that some of the pieces in the Giles trade probably were on the table for Hamels.

[BUWebguy]

Jon Morosi: "Sources: #Dodgers increasingly confident they will acquire 1 of Yu Darvish, Sonny Gray or Justin Verlander by Monday."
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/890660816843714560

Says Dodgers are more focused on Darvish & Gray than Verlander.

[juliogotay]

Jon Morosi: "Sources: #Dodgers increasingly confident they will acquire 1 of Yu Darvish, Sonny Gray or Justin Verlander by Monday."
https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/890660816843714560

Says Dodgers are more focused on Darvish & Gray than Verlander.

Darvish laid an egg last night. 10 runs in less than 4 IP.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Twins beat writer says:

#Astros (pen focused) said to be seeking "true difference maker" to bolster rotation. Have done background work on Ervin. Doing more now.

[JimR]

Twins beat writer says:

I like Santana.

[austro]

I like Santana.

I do too. I think he'd be a solid addition.

I wonder when we'll start seeing the rumors that the Yankees are looking at him.

[Andyzipp]

Twins beat writer says:

So the Astros are “pen focused” which means they’re interested in a 34 year old starter?

[moriartp]

So the Astros are “pen focused” which means they’re interested in a 34 year old starter?

I also don't see how, even if you like him, Ervin Santana is a "true difference maker."

[Andyzipp]

I also don't see how, even if you like him, Ervin Santana is a "true difference maker."

I dunno, career 4.05 ERA screams difference maker.

Excuse me 2-time All-Star difference maker.

[Navin R Johnson]

Santana since June.  4-5 5.46 ERA in 10 starts.  59 IP, 73 Hits, 48 Ks.  Oof.

[JimR]

Santana since June.  4-5 5.46 ERA in 10 starts.  59 IP, 73 Hits, 48 Ks.  Oof.

No one is ever good enough for TZ denizens to accept giving up Astros' prospects, it appears. What is a main purpose of a deep and talented minor league system? Are we going to win the WS with Kuechel, McCullers and pick two of Morton, McHugh, and Fiers plus the bullpen we have after roster adjustments? I'll hang up and listen.

[HudsonHawk]

That's generally common knowledge around here. It's a particularly rough event when one considers that the Gomez/Fiers deal would have likely never happened if Hamels had agreed to the deal. But, fuck him, he didn't want to be on this team, so enjoy wearing your white suede loafers in Dallas 18 games back.

IIRC, Hamels vetoed the Astros because he didn't think they'd be competitive "long term", as in last year or this year.

[BudGirl]

No one is ever good enough for TZ denizens to accept giving up Astros' prospects, it appears. What is a main purpose of a deep and talented minor league system? Are we going to win the WS with Kuechel, McCullers and pick two of Morton, McHugh, and Fiers plus the bullpen we have after roster adjustments? I'll hang up and listen.

Hells yeah!

Seriously, though, In Luhnow I Trust.  Luhnow is going to do the best thing for this team.  I think Crane wants to win, regardless of what some others may say.  I would like to see Gray become an Astro because he seems to be having a good season, but I'm expecting Verlander and Wilson to become Astros.  But, someone I don't want to leave the Astros is going to have to leave the Astros.  I wish him all the success in the world, except against the Astros.

[astrosfan76]

Jerry Crasnick‏Verified account @jcrasnick 17m17 minutes ago

#Astros GM Jeff Luhnow reluctant to trade any top prospects, say rival execs. He might have to bend to push bigger deal across finish line.

Reluctant doesn't mean unwilling, though. 

[MusicMan]

Right. I would expect him to just hand them out like candy.


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[Mr. Happy]

Hells yeah!

Seriously, though, In Luhnow I Trust.  Luhnow is going to do the best thing for this team.  I think Crane wants to win, regardless of what some others may say.  I would like to see Gray become an Astro because he seems to be having a good season, but I'm expecting Verlander and Wilson to become Astros.  But, someone I don't want to leave the Astros is going to have to leave the Astros.  I wish him all the success in the world, except against the Astros.

+1

[VirtualBob]

Reluctant doesn't mean unwilling, though.

It is a negotiation. He would be crazy to open the talks with "Here they are. How many do you want?"

ETA:  Should have just gone "+1" on MM's post.

[BlownRanger]

No one is ever good enough for TZ denizens to accept giving up Astros' prospects, it appears. What is a main purpose of a deep and talented minor league system? Are we going to win the WS with Kuechel, McCullers and pick two of Morton, McHugh, and Fiers plus the bullpen we have after roster adjustments? I'll hang up and listen.

What frustrates me about the "don't trade away the future" crowd is that they'll give you chapter and verse about how getting Gray or Verlander doesn't guarantee a World Series, but they act like Kyle Tucker is certain to be a fixture in All Star games for the next decade.  More so than any other sport, baseball is a game in which prospects, no matter how highly they're ranked, remain "suspects" until they prove themselves at the big league level.  I'm pretty sure Josh Willingham and Lastings Milledge were both Top-10 prospects.

Doing what's necessary to get any of the names being thrown around doesn't guarantee anything.  But standing pat guarantees the 2017 Houston Astros are less likely to win in the post-season.

[mrpink]

No one is ever good enough for TZ denizens to accept giving up Astros' prospects, it appears. What is a main purpose of a deep and talented minor league system? Are we going to win the WS with Kuechel, McCullers and pick two of Morton, McHugh, and Fiers plus the bullpen we have after roster adjustments? I'll hang up and listen.

Well Santana certainly isn't.  Who knows what we're going to get from McHugh, but I would rather see any Astros starter including Peacock and Martes than Santana.  Gray is a different story.

This rotation may not be as good as what the Cubs had going last year, but they match up well with the Royals and Giants from the previous years.

[Navin R Johnson]

I'd have no problem with acquiring Santana, if the Price was Teoscar and Moran.   Me personally, I wouldn't give up any of Martes, Tucker, Fisher, Whitley for Ervin.   You are gonna need those pieces if you want to acquire a real difference maker.

[juliogotay]

IIRC, Hamels vetoed the Astros because he didn't think they'd be competitive "long term", as in last year or this year.

Not what I remember. Supposedly had something to do with his wife having a good friend in the Metroplex and him having a list of "no-trade" cities which included Houston. It wasn't good for her IIRC. I laughed my ass off when Hamels got his ass handed to him in the playoffs by Toronto last year.

[JimR]

Well Santana certainly isn't.  Who knows what we're going to get from McHugh, but I would rather see any Astros starter including Peacock and Martes than Santana.  Gray is a different story.

This rotation may not be as good as what the Cubs had going last year, but they match up well with the Royals and Giants from the previous years.

You are crazy.

[doyce7]

Well Santana certainly isn't.  Who knows what we're going to get from McHugh, but I would rather see any Astros starter including Peacock and Martes than Santana.  Gray is a different story.

This rotation may not be as good as what the Cubs had going last year, but they match up well with the Royals and Giants from the previous years.

The royals had the best bullpen in baseball. The giants had madbum.

The Astros have neither. As much as I love keuchel, madbum he is not.

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[mrpink]

You are crazy.

Crazy like a fox....or....whatever.

[astrosfan76]

It is a negotiation. He would be crazy to open the talks with "Here they are. How many do you want?"

ETA:  Should have just gone "+1" on MM's post.

Right, he'd be a fool to not try to keep them.  But, realistically, he's going to have to include top prospect(s) to land the kind of players he's aiming for.  He can't offer a Jake Rodgers-type as the headliner forever.  I think the Cubs overpaid for Quintana, but that is what sellers are going to use as reference.   Anyway, I think the point of the original tweet was that Luhnow has been less willing compared to other organizations to include his top prospects, which, something will eventually have to give.   

[mrpink]

The royals had the best bullpen in baseball. The giants had madbum.

The Astros have neither. As much as I love keuchel, madbum he is not.

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They also had Peavy, Hudson, and Vogelsong.  I'll take our next 3 over theirs.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

IIRC, Hamels vetoed the Astros because he didn't think they'd be competitive "long term", as in last year or this year.

I heard his wife vetoed it on account of she had family in Dallas.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

The royals had the best bullpen in baseball. The giants had madbum.

The Astros have neither. As much as I love keuchel, madbum he is not.

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We actually don't know if Keuchel is MadBum or not. Who's seen them both at the same time in the same place?

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I recognize that I don't know shit about shit, but I wonder too if part of this (whatever "this" is) could be Luhnow's arguably having overpaid in prospects in the past.

[juliogotay]

I recognize that I don't know shit about shit, but I wonder too if part of this (whatever "this" is) could be Luhnow's arguably having overpaid in prospects in the past.

No. The past is the past.

[BudGirl]

I think all GMs learn lessons from trades.  If Luhnow overpaid in the past, then he has learned how to negotiate better.  If he doesn't learn something from each trade then he's not doing his job.  I am probably his biggest homer in thinking he does a great job.

[JimR]

I recognize that I don't know shit about shit, but I wonder too if part of this (whatever "this" is) could be Luhnow's arguably having overpaid in prospects in the past.

You pay what you have to pay to get the player you think will enable your club to win. The concept of "overpayment" is the device internet experts use to "prove" they are smarter than GMs.

[Bench]

What frustrates me about the "don't trade away the future" crowd is that they'll give you chapter and verse about how getting Gray or Verlander doesn't guarantee a World Series, but they act like Kyle Tucker is certain to be a fixture in All Star games for the next decade. 

Well put.  The rejoinder to that is always "6 years of cheap club control even if not all-stars" which pretty much gives away their game.

[VirtualBob]

Anyway, I think the point of the original tweet was that Luhnow has been less willing compared to other organizations to include his top prospects, which, something will eventually have to give.

No.  The point of the original post was that some self-proclaimed pundit reported that other executives said that Luhnow was less willing to include top prospects.  Which is exactly what you would expect other executives to say. 

It is negotiation and anything said in public is intended to put pressure on the other side, not reveal any deep insights.

[JimR]

No.  The point of the original post was that some self-proclaimed pundit reported that other executives said that Luhnow was less willing to include top prospects.  Which is exactly what you would expect other executives to say. 

It is negotiation and anything said in public is intended to put pressure on the other side, not reveal any deep insights.

This in spades.

[Jacksonian]

I think all GMs learn lessons from trades.  If Luhnow overpaid in the past, then he has learned how to negotiate better.  If he doesn't learn something from each trade then he's not doing his job.  I am probably his biggest homer in thinking he does a great job.

He's using the Cardinals philosophy that won them multiple World Series and many post-season appearances.  Draft well, sign the right free agents for your team and trade smarter not bigger and in that order.

[Jacksonian]

Rays get Steve Chishek from Mariners for Erasmo Ramirez.

[astrosfan76]

No.  The point of the original post was that some self-proclaimed pundit reported that other executives said that Luhnow was less willing to include top prospects.  Which is exactly what you would expect other executives to say. 

It is negotiation and anything said in public is intended to put pressure on the other side, not reveal any deep insights.

Self-proclaimed pundit?  Come on.  In addition to being Louis C.K.'s doppleganger, Crasnick's covered baseball professionally for almost 30 years, half of that with ESPN, as well as writing for Baseball America.  Regardless of what your thoughts may be on ESPN, he's one of the legitimate voices there. 

The thing about Luhnow is that while he doesn't reveal secrets, he's always been pretty honest with the media about his intentions.  If he says the club is going to be aggressive, they're aggressive.  If he says that they're looking at certain areas, those areas they've addressed or tried to address.  With the tenor of his recent statements (Crasnick's tweet just reinforces it), I'm not overly-optimistic right now that he's going to go all-out to improve the club.  I think he should go for it, but I don't know that he will. 

[moriartp]

Rays get Steve Chishek from Mariners for Erasmo Ramirez.

The Rays are buying in very Rays fashion.

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[Ty in Tampa]

With the tenor of his recent statements (Crasnick's tweet just reinforces it), I'm not overly-optimistic right now that he's going to go all-out to improve the club.  I think he should go for it, but I don't know that he will. 

Good thing your speculation is as worthless as Crasnick's at this point.

[astrosfan76]

Good thing your speculation is as worthless as Crasnick's at this point.

Give Jerry a little more credit than that.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I recognize that I don't know shit about shit, but I wonder too if part of this (whatever "this" is) could be Luhnow's arguably having overpaid in prospects in the past.

"If men could learn from history, what lessons it might teach us! But passion and party blind our eyes, and the light which experience gives us is a lantern on the stern which shines only on the waves behind."
-Samuel Taylor Coleridge

[moriartp]

It hadn't been looking like a Britton trade was likely, but it's even less likely now: Baltimore just decided to buy, somewhat bizarrely, and traded for Jeremy Hellickson.

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[Nate Colbert]

It hadn't been looking like a Britton trade was likely, but it's even less likely now: Baltimore just decided to buy, somewhat bizarrely, and traded for Jeremy Hellickson.

Seems a bit bizarre to me as well but...

Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal 2m ago
#Orioles still trying to trade Britton and Brach even as they attempt to finalize Hellickson. Need help in rotation to get through season.

[moriartp]

Seems a bit bizarre to me as well but...

Ken Rosenthal  @Ken_Rosenthal 2m ago
#Orioles still trying to trade Britton and Brach even as they attempt to finalize Hellickson. Need help in rotation to get through season.

Goodness. They must've got Hellickson for a bag of balls, then.

[WVastro]

Goodness. They must've got Hellickson for a bag of balls, then.

They could be using a bit of strategery... they're expecting a large return from trades but still would like to put an MLB team on the field starting Aug. 1st. Hellickson wasn't exactly setting the trade market on fire... I'd imagine at this point they must have a good idea of what they can expect will come in to the system prospect wise and might be able to deal their own prospects from a position of strength.

[austro]

I just hope that we're not chasing Britton. I expect him to break down again any day now.

[MusicMan]

I just hope that we're not chasing Britton. I expect him to break down again any day now.

Connie Britton would be a great addition.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.


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[juliogotay]

Connie Britton would be a great addition.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.


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Is she a southpaw?

[Nate Colbert]

Jon Morosi  @jonmorosi 13s ago
Sources: #Astros have shown interest in Lance Lynn. HOU/STL officials are comfortable dealing with one another, despite recent history.

[JimR]

Saw a report saying NYY is about to get Sonny Gray. Damn Yankees.

That loss did not bother me. We had chances to have a comfortable lead and could not produce. Hinch does not regret using Martes, and neither do I.

Boyd pitched great after our early flurries, and the worst thing is having to beat Verlander to win the series.

[JimR]

Jon Morosi  @jonmorosi 13s ago
Sources: #Astros have shown interest in Lance Lynn. HOU/STL officials are comfortable dealing with one another, despite recent history.

This afternoon it was NYY. Now us?

[HudsonHawk]

That loss did not bother me. We had chances to have a comfortable lead and could not produce. Hinch does not regret using Martes, and neither do I.

Nothing at all to do with tonight, but I just don't get why Martes is considered untouchable. He has a nice arm, but I don't see the can't miss earth shattering potential that others around here do.

[JimR]

Nothing at all to do with tonight, but I just don't get why Martes is considered untouchable. He has a nice arm, but I don't see the can't miss earth shattering potential that others around here do.

He has a tremendous arm. Similar to Dotel when he struggled as a starter, I would never give up on that arm. He is 21.

Hinch's comment tonight about him: "His stuff will play in any inning."

[HudsonHawk]

He has a tremendous arm. Similar to Dotel when he struggled as a starter, I would never give up on that arm. He is 21.

Hinch's comment tonight about him: "His stuff will play in any inning."

Don't get me wrong...I like him. I just don't see him preventing the Astos from getting the guy they think will put them over the top this year.

[JimR]

Don't get me wrong...I like him. I just don't see him preventing the Astos from getting the guy they think will put them over the top this year.

Depends on who. I think he will be very valuable out of the pen in the playoffs...IF we make it.

[Fredia]

as the rumor mill turns. well the answers have to come soon.

[Andyzipp]

NYY acquire Jamie Garcia from MIN in exchange for Littell and Erns.

[JimR]

NYY acquire Jamie Garcia from MIN in exchange for Littell and Erns.

Maybe we are still in it for Gray.

[juliogotay]

Maybe we are still in it for Gray.

I have to think Fisher is being showcased in CF. A's looking for CFer.

[JimR]

I have to think Fisher is being showcased in CF. A's looking for CFer.

The Tigers wanted Fisher for Wilson during the winter. Showcasing, and oh hey, he can hit.

If we got Gray and Wilson or Britton, grand slam.

[Andyzipp]

Melky Cabrera to the Royals for 2 minor leaguers.

[Navin R Johnson]

The Padres have lowered their asking price for lefty Brad Hand and are no longer seeking top tier prospects, reports ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick (Twitter links). However, Crasnick adds that most of the offers received thus far have included players with “limited ceilings” — prospects ranked in the 15 to 20 range within their respective organizations. The Padres’ front office hasn’t deemed any of those offers worth considering, and Crasnick notes that chairman Ron Fowler’s comments about being willing to hold onto Hand into the offseason weren’t posturing.

The Astros and the Nationals have had the most serious discussions on Tigers left-hander Justin Wilson in the past 24 hours, Jon Morosi of MLB.com reports (on Twitter). Both teams have long been linked to the Detroit closer, who is in the midst of a career year and is controlled through the 2018 season. Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post tweets that the Nats have scouted Wilson closely, but no trade is imminent at this time.

In marketing closer Zach Britton, the Orioles are seeking a greater package than the one the Yankees received in exchange for Aroldis Chapman last season (Gleyber Torres, Billy McKinney, Adam Warren and Rashad Crawford) but “not quite” what the Yanks received for Andrew Miller (Clint Frazier, Justus Sheffield, Ben Heller, J.P. Feyereisen), Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports reports. They’ve also received interest in right-handers Brad Brach and Mychal Givens, but they’re not inclined to deal the 27-year-old Givens, who is controlled through the 2021 season. The Astros, Dodgers and Nationals are among the teams that have expressed interest in Britton, Heyman writes.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/mlb-trade-rumors-zach-britton-brad-hand.html

Two of those three, please.

[MusicMan]

Go get Wilson. Britton isn't worth an Aroldis package.


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[hostros7]

Go get Wilson. Britton isn't worth an Aroldis package.


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Agree. And, at least the padres stopped hitting the Brad Hand angel dust.


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[JimR]

Go get Wilson. Britton isn't worth an Aroldis package.


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Agree.

[MusicMan]

From Mark Feinsand:

Sources indicate Tigers LHP Justin Wilson likely to be dealt tonight. Astros considered the favorite, but others making a play for him, too.


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[JimR]

From Mark Feinsand:

Sources indicate Tigers LHP Justin Wilson likely to be dealt tonight. Astros considered the favorite, but others making a play for him, too.


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Please. Be prepared if it is Fisher.

[MusicMan]

On the other hand - Rosenthal:

Sources: #Cubs working hard to land #Tigers’ Justin Wilson. At least one team involved thinks CHC will be landing spot. Others involved.


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[Nate Colbert]

On the other hand - Rosenthal:

Sources: #Cubs working hard to land #Tigers’ Justin Wilson. At least one team involved thinks CHC will be landing spot. Others involved.


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Joel Sherman also says Cubs are the frontrunner.

[MusicMan]

But his next tweet:

Others teams that have been on Wilson, per sources: #Dodgers, #Nationals, #Astros.


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[Nate Colbert]

The rumored Cubs prospect in a possible Justin Wilson deal is INF Jeimer Candelario (92nd overall on MLB.com's Top 100 list). He's NOT in the lineup for AAA Iowa in their game tonight.

[JimR]

The rumored Cubs prospect in a possible Justin Wilson deal is INF Jeimer Candelario (92nd overall on MLB.com's Top 100 list). He's NOT in the lineup for AAA Iowa in their game tonight.

Who is our comparable?

[Nate Colbert]

Rosenthal reporting Lucroy was traded to Colorado.

[austro]

Rosenthal reporting Lucroy was traded to Colorado.

Olney just said it on ESPN, too.

[Nate Colbert]

Who is our comparable?

Bukauskas is 86th on that list. Closest position player prospect is Fisher (though he's at 54th).

[moriartp]

The rumored Cubs prospect in a possible Justin Wilson deal is INF Jeimer Candelario (92nd overall on MLB.com's Top 100 list). He's NOT in the lineup for AAA Iowa in their game tonight.

The Astros should be willing to top that. What would it take, JD Davis and another decent prospect? I'd pull the trigger on that without hesitation.

[MusicMan]

Bukauskas is 86th on that list. Closest position player prospect is Fisher (though he's at 54th).

I was under the impression that Bukauskas couldn't be traded yet?


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[moriartp]

I was under the impression that Bukauskas couldn't be traded yet?


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That's correct.

[Nate Colbert]

I was under the impression that Bukauskas couldn't be traded yet?


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This is true--I was just giving Jim the closest ranking.

[JimR]

This is true--I was just giving Jim the closest ranking.

Perhaps we said no on Fisher.

[hostros7]

That's correct.

Can he be a PTBNL?


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[Nate Colbert]

Can he be a PTBNL?


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No. A draftee can't be traded until the day after the World Series nor can they be a PTBNL in a trade prior to that.

[hostros7]

Can he be a PTBNL?


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According to my googling, the loophole was closed by making drafted players not eligible to be traded until after the WS.


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[hostros7]

No. A draftee can't be traded until the day after the World Series nor can they be a PTBNL in a trade prior to that.

Thanks, you were faster than google.


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[Astrofan59]

The Astros should be willing to top that. What would it take, JD Davis and another decent prospect? I'd pull the trigger on that without hesitation.

If you want to top that offer, you would be offering Derek Fisher or Franklin Perez.  The way that MLB ranks the prospects, Candelario is the Cubs top prospect, while Davis would be, at best, their 10th best prospect. Teams are always going to prefer quality over quantity.

[Nate Colbert]

Mark Feinsand  @Feinsand 3m ago
Waiting for it to be final, but sources say Justin Wilson should be a Cub tonight. Relief market has busy 16 hours ahead.

[WVastro]

Looking at Candelario's MiL career I simply just don't get how the Astros can't beat that offer. Luckily these teams have scouts working for them though...

[JimR]

Looking at Candelario's MiL career I simply just don't get how the Astros can't beat that offer. Luckily these teams have scouts working for them though...

Britton maybe? If we miss on both of them, what is next?

Fuck the Cubs. First Quintana, now Wilson.

[Lefty]

NYY acquire Jamie Garcia from MIN in exchange for Littell and Erns.

There's an accountant/lawyer joke in here somewhere.

[Jacksonian]

Looking at Candelario's MiL career I simply just don't get how the Astros can't beat that offer. Luckily these teams have scouts working for them though...

It's not about rankings or stats.  It's about how Luhnow values each prospect and how every other GM values the Astros prospects.

[geezerdonk]

Unless Luhnow can trade for an entire pitching staff, he doesn't need to bother.

[Lefty]

Unless Luhnow can trade for an entire pitching staff, he doesn't need to bother.

Why do you bother posting here?

[WVastro]

Done pending physicals.

Avila and Wilson to the Cubs for Candelario and Isaac Peredes.

Cubs To Acquire Justin Wilson, Alex Avila
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/cubs-nearing-deal-to-acquire-justin-wilson-alex-avila.html

Eta: medical review done, announcement forthcoming.

[JimR]

Unless Luhnow can trade for an entire pitching staff, he doesn't need to bother.

Fuck off

[moriartp]

If you want to top that offer, you would be offering Derek Fisher or Franklin Perez.  The way that MLB ranks the prospects, Candelario is the Cubs top prospect, while Davis would be, at best, their 10th best prospect. Teams are always going to prefer quality over quantity.

Hm, I was looking at BA's ranking that had Candelario much lower. And of course wasn't factoring in the SS also heading to Detroit. I'm still not sure Luhnow shouldn't have topped it, but now it makes more sense that he didn't.

Just really really hoping Luhnow gets some pen help before 3pm.

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[MusicMan]

Unless Luhnow can trade for an entire pitching staff, he doesn't need to bother.

Better replace all the hitters too.

If they don't reanimate Babe Ruth, they don't care about winning.


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[juliogotay]

Unless Luhnow can trade for an entire pitching staff, he doesn't need to bother.

That limits the trading partners considerably since Astros 10th in ML pitching.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Unless Luhnow can trade for an entire pitching staff, he doesn't need to bother.

I welcome all opinions, no matter how fatuous.

[D.WARD]

Unless Luhnow can trade for an entire pitching staff, he doesn't need to bother.

U FOO!

[Mr. Happy]

Unless Luhnow can trade for an entire pitching staff, he doesn't need to bother.

You must do this on purpose. No one can actually be this fucking stupid.

[toddthebod]

Waiting to reserve judgment until 4, but I think that Luhnow screwed this up by not moving more quickly.  If Luhnow really thought that the price for pitching was going to go down as the trade deadline got closer, he clearly underestimated the number of teams looking for starting and relief pitchers. 

Of course, my mind will totally be changed if the Astros end up with Gray (or Verlander) and Britton.     

[hostros7]

Rosenthal:

Source confirms: Addison Reed to #RedSox for three prospects, pending medical review. On it: @JoelSherman1, @TBrownYahoo.


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[das]

Unless Luhnow can trade for an entire pitching staff, he doesn't need to bother.

Either my Sarc Meter is broken or this is one of the most inane comments made in the history of the TZ.  Just utter and complete stupidity with no connection to any viable reality.  Apologies if you were trying to be sarcastically unfunny.

Edited to add:  I see the dogpile that ensued. I should have read ahead before reposting this drivel.

[das]

Just really really hoping Luhnow gets some pen help before 3pm.

What time is the deadline today?  3pm central?

[Ebby Calvin]

What time is the deadline today?  3pm central?

Yep.

[NeilT]

Either my Sarc Meter is broken or this is one of the most inane comments made in the history of the TZ.  Just utter and complete stupidity with no connection to any viable reality.  Apologies if you were trying to be sarcastically unfunny.

Edited to add:  I see the dogpile that ensued. I should have read ahead before reposting this drivel.

Sometimes the need for hyperbole just takes over our better judgment, if we have any.

[MusicMan]

Sometimes the need for hyperbole just takes over our better judgment, if we have any.

Sad!

[MusicMan]

Bob Nightengale:

The #Rangers are confident that Yu Darvish will be traded by end of day. In active talks now with #Dodgers,#Astros,#Yankees, #Indians.


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[MusicMan]

Rosenthal:

Report from @hoynsie says #Indians “pushing hard” for Britton. Per sources, #Dodgers, #Astros also in.


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[das]

Bob Nightengale:
The #Rangers are confident that Yu Darvish will be traded by end of day. In active talks now with #Dodgers,#Astros,#Yankees, #Indians.

The bolded certainly got my attention.

[Fredia]

thank God for Randy Johnson, at least we do not have to wait till midnight