Author Topic: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime  (Read 232858 times)

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5180 on: November 04, 2019, 01:28:29 pm »
Bad day for Trump today.  A federal appeals court ruled that his bank has to turn over 8 years of tax returns and the House Dems started releasing the deposition transcripts from testimony by witnesses in their impeachment hearings.

I haven’t seen too many reports on the latter - looks like just more color to the story.  Such as Sondland telling Yovanovitch that she should tweet out support for the president to keep here job - he actually told her to “go big or go home”. 

Trump’s lawyers plan to take the tax returns all the way to SCOTUS, where all eyes will be on John Roberts.  Will he allow his court to appoint a King?
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5181 on: November 04, 2019, 01:38:08 pm »
Trump did get some non-horrible polling news today: he has narrow leads over most Dem candidates in the 6 close states he won in 2016. 
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5182 on: November 04, 2019, 06:30:11 pm »
Bad day for Trump today.  A federal appeals court ruled that his bank has to turn over 8 years of tax returns and the House Dems started releasing the deposition transcripts from testimony by witnesses in their impeachment hearings.

I haven’t seen too many reports on the latter - looks like just more color to the story.  Such as Sondland telling Yovanovitch that she should tweet out support for the president to keep here job - he actually told her to “go big or go home”. 

Trump’s lawyers plan to take the tax returns all the way to SCOTUS, where all eyes will be on John Roberts.  Will he allow his court to appoint a King?

Trump is not turning over his tax returns.  Period.  The SCOTUS can say anything they want, he will tell them to shove it up their collective arse, and that will be the end of that.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5183 on: November 05, 2019, 09:05:02 am »
Trump is not turning over his tax returns.  Period.  The SCOTUS can say anything they want, he will tell them to shove it up their collective arse, and that will be the end of that.

They’re not getting them from Trump directly, they’re getting them from his accountant.  Unless that accountant has fewer clients than Michael Cohen, they’re not going to risk an existential punishment to protect Individual-1’s tax returns. 
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5184 on: November 05, 2019, 09:08:35 am »
Lev Parnas appears to have flipped on Rudy, or is trying the lever a pardon out of Trump.  Or both.  I’m leaning both. 
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HudsonHawk

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5185 on: November 05, 2019, 09:44:30 am »
They’re not getting them from Trump directly, they’re getting them from his accountant.  Unless that accountant has fewer clients than Michael Cohen, they’re not going to risk an existential punishment to protect Individual-1’s tax returns.

Punishment by whom?  Federal law enforcement, which is commanded by...let me check...Donald J. Trump?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5186 on: November 09, 2019, 10:29:26 pm »
To much going on, so...  *** Floating dumpster fire gif ***
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5187 on: November 17, 2019, 04:11:59 pm »
So the impeachment testimony is very interesting, and telling.  On the one side, you have a steady stream of Trump administration officials who all have the same narrative - that Trump used the withholding of military aid and a White House meeting to pressure the new President of Ukraine to announce an investigation into "the Bidens".  On the other side, you have people who don't want Trump to get removed from office - including Trump - so they are trying to stop that from happening.  The problem is, the latter group has absolutely nothing to argue.

Now I won't get into the detail of the testimony here; there are plenty of other places to look for that.  What's interesting to me is the "defense" of Trump is non-existent.  It's been a couple of stunts - one of which has backfired spectacularly - and waffle that there can't be anything here because we have had no first hand testimony.  That latter argument is so pathetic that it's embarrassing, and this is for two reasons:

a)  Many of the first-person witnesses have been asked or subpoenaed to testify, and have been blocked from doing so by the White House.  This includes specifically Bolton, Pompeo, Giuliani and Mulvaney, the last of whom can also testify to the withholding (or not) or the military aid because he's the head of OMB who is in control of such things.  And

ii)  There will be first-person testimony next week in the form of Vindman and, more significantly, Sondland.

The "hearsay" defense will evaporate next week and they'll be left with stunts and procedural bitching.  Sondland is about as Trumpy as you can get and, if he corroborates the mountain of evidence pointing in the same direction, then that should close this case from a fact perspective.  What will be left is a test for the individual Republicans in the Senate; will they adhere to their oath to uphold the constitution or will they go down in history as endorsing a monarchical presidency?

What's really fascinating is that this test will fall on the narrow shoulders of Senate Republicans just as a whole heap of bad news about Trump's political value hitting like a shitnami.  To wit:

1)  Trump campaigned hard for Gov. Matt Bevin in Kentucky which Trump won by 30 points - Bevin lost;
2)  Trump campaigned hard for Eddie Rispone in Louisiana, which Trump won by 20 points - Rispone lost
3)  Republicans got moved into political irrelevancy in Virginia
4)  Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY) - who tried to speak out of turn at the hearings to create a viral moment - was successful in a way.  Her opponent went from 5,000 Twitter followers to 230,000 and has raised nearly $1 million since Stefanik's stunt.

Trump is becoming politically toxic.  The steady stream of testimony against him; his ongoing losing streak in the courts that seems will lead eventually to all kinds of damning personal and political documentation coming out; no wall; no coal jobs; the carnage of his trade wars.  Even Fox News cannot hold the line 24/7, and is letting truth seep into their coverage.  All of it will factor into the decision of Senate Republicans when this case comes before them.

Trump's in bad shape now, and it's only going to get worse for him.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 04:15:08 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5188 on: November 17, 2019, 04:58:24 pm »
I’m fully expecting an acquittal in the Senate with some Republicans joining the Dems, but the good thing about the public hearing is that almost everyone listening will know that what he did was dead wrong.  They’ll also know that if Obama or Clinton had done that, they’d have lost their job for sure. So, it will be basically be distilled down to “We’ll never turn on our criminal.”

That’s fine and all, but that cynicism and criminal abatement comes with a cost.  May be naive, but that’s my hope.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5189 on: November 17, 2019, 05:20:50 pm »
I’m fully expecting an acquittal in the Senate with some Republicans joining the Dems, but the good thing about the public hearing is that almost everyone listening will know that what he did was dead wrong.  They’ll also know that if Obama or Clinton had done that, they’d have lost their job for sure. So, it will be basically be distilled down to “We’ll never turn on our criminal.”

That’s fine and all, but that cynicism and criminal abatement comes with a cost.  May be naive, but that’s my hope.

I think the Dems are relying on that. I think they believe that actually removing Trump would set off a reaction that would cost them (and us), and they're counting on the Senate not to impeach (if they even send charges up to the Senate). But by going through all of this, they're going to get loads of Trump's ugly shit out in the open in time for the election, and they'll be able bang on it again and again through the entire campaign. And Republicans will have to decide, late in the game, whether Trump is too toxic and has to be replaced by somebody else.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5190 on: November 17, 2019, 10:26:17 pm »
Hilarious side note:

Dan Crenshaw tweeted in support of Elise Stefanik - saying that Democrats are scared of her - which resulted in his tweet blowing up with people reporting donations to his 2020 opponent, Elisa Cardnell.  Elisa, being ever so polite, is thanking everyone on Dan’s thread.  🤣🤣🤣
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5191 on: November 18, 2019, 08:42:41 am »
ABC/Ipsos poll:

70% of Americans believe Trump did something wrong

57% want him impeached

51% want him impeached *and* removed from office

21% made that decision this after last weeks hearings

Those are some terrible numbers for Trump after just one week of public hearings.  Tomorrow, Vindland (in BB all his military finery) and Sondland Wednesday.  This week is likely to be worse.  Given the medical news, it might literally kill him. 
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jbm

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5192 on: November 18, 2019, 10:31:52 am »
What’s the medical news?

TeeJoe

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5193 on: November 18, 2019, 11:29:09 am »
What’s the medical news?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5194 on: November 18, 2019, 11:29:42 am »
What’s the medical news?

He made an unscheduled trip (not on public or White House internal itineraries) to Walter Reed on Saturday for some sort of medical procedure.  They're saying that he's "starting his annual physical" or some shit.  So without further details, and given previous credibility issues, we're left to wonder if they're covering up something.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5195 on: November 20, 2019, 09:44:30 am »
Sondland just torched the entire administration.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5196 on: November 20, 2019, 10:01:06 am »
Sondland just torched the entire administration.

[Trump probably] Never heard of him. [/Trump probably]
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5197 on: November 20, 2019, 10:25:26 am »
One of the many remarkable things about Sondland's testimony is that Trump wanted the Ukrainian president to announce the investigations, but didn't really care if the investigations actually commenced. The notion that Trump of all people gave a rat's ass about addressing corruption in Ukraine was always laughable, but this testimony establishes corrupt intent pretty clearly.
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Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5198 on: November 20, 2019, 10:46:30 am »
[Trump probably] Never heard of him. [/Trump probably]

Trump actually just a few minutes ago: “I don’t know him very well. I have not spoken to him much. This is not a man I know well. He seems like a nice guy though.”
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MRaup

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #5199 on: November 20, 2019, 10:55:24 am »
Trump actually just a few minutes ago: “I don’t know him very well. I have not spoken to him much. This is not a man I know well. He seems like a nice guy though.”

I was only slightly being tongue in cheek.
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