Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime

[HudsonHawk]

Hard work and living within your means won't kill them. Their mess and their responsibility to fix it. I'm not going to pull money out of the pocket of someone else to fix their stupid. They were adults when those decisions were made.

So...and I don't want to put words in your mouth here...you think they should just have to now suffer whatever consequences that mistake brings?

Do you feel the same about these other "socialist" agenda items?  Healthcare for instance...don't have money for insurance? it's your own fault, you'll have to just live or die with whatever health problems you have?

[TeeJoe]

So...and I don't want to put words in your mouth here...you think they should just have to now suffer whatever consequences that mistake brings?

Do you feel the same about these other "socialist" agenda items?  Healthcare for instance...don't have money for insurance? it's your own fault, you'll have to just live or die with whatever health problems you have?

Thanks for asking and not assuming.

With health care...No, I do not think that if you don't have health insurance it's you own fault, you'll just have to live or die with whatever health problems you have.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

To be fair, that study finds that only 23% of students surveyed used any student loan money for any non-educational stuff.  It doesn't attempt to itemize which categories students spent their loan money on (about 1/3 of those categories are perfectly defensible), nor does it attempt to ascertain how much money students spent in each of those categories, from their loans or otherwise.

Besides, this doesn't have to be binary.  It can be possible that 1) some students use loan money frivolously, and 2) tuition is too expensive.

What an excellent job abstracting the abstract.

[Limey]

Two new polls in the last two days have the majority supporting impeachment.  It’s a slim majority, but it’s moved into the positive just this week.  It will move more as the hearings reveal the depth and breadth of the crimes and coverups.  😁😁😁😁

Meanwhile Trump wants to be rid of his meddlesome whistleblower, and lamented that he couldn’t just drag him out and hang him.  I am not exaggerating.  😳😳😳😳

Oh, and emails with the full transcripts of Trump’s calls were stored on a separate email server in a basement somewhere.  🤣🤣🤣🤣

[HudsonHawk]

With health care...No, I do not think that if you don't have health insurance it's you own fault, you'll just have to live or die with whatever health problems you have.

Do you support trying to make healthcare available to everyone, irrespective of wealth?

[moriartp]

With health care...No, I do not think that if you don't have health insurance it's you own fault, you'll just have to live or die with whatever health problems you have.

I don’t think a person who believes this can be called a “centrist.”

[Bench]

I don’t think a person who believes this can be called a “centrist.”

I think that at this point that's a fairly majority view, along with requiring coverage for pre-existing conditions.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I don’t think a person who believes this can be called a “centrist.”

I think the double.negatives confused you.

[moriartp]

I think the double.negatives confused you.

Yeah I missed that the last clause was quoting HH.

[TeeJoe]

Do you support trying to make healthcare available to everyone, irrespective of wealth?

Sure, that would be great. Up front cost of paying for it, cost of actual care, level of care, already existing shortage of doctors causes things to get sticky. Then, thinking about the Fed running health care makes me squeamish.  The Fed surely can't mess up another government program.

[TeeJoe]

I think the double.negatives confused you.

Thanks for the assist

[HudsonHawk]

Sure, that would be great. Up front cost of paying for it, cost of actual care, level of care, already existing shortage of doctors causes things to get sticky. Then, thinking about the Fed running health care makes me squeamish.  The Fed surely can't mess up another government program.

Forget bout paying for it or running it for the moment... you support the concept of universal healthcare...is that fair to say?

[TeeJoe]

Forget bout paying for it or running it for the moment... you support the concept of universal healthcare...is that fair to say?

I do this game with my kids when I'm leading them to a argument ending point I'm about to lay on them.

For the moment I'll forget the stickies. Yes, I can support the concept of universal care.

[HudsonHawk]

I do this game with my kids when I'm leading them to a argument ending point I'm about to lay on them.

For the moment I'll forget the stickies. Yes, I can support the concept of universal care.

So you see it coming.  My argument is that you're not opposed to the socialism, you're afraid of the unknowns of implementing it, so you default to the status quo.  Bringing this back to my original point...this is what I see in the majority of the "independents" and "fence sitters", and why the Republicans' fear mongering works on them.   

[TeeJoe]

So you see it coming.  My argument is that you're not opposed to the socialism, you're afraid of the unknowns of implementing it, so you default to the status quo.  Bringing this back to my original point...this is what I see in the majority of the "independents" and "fence sitters", and why the Republicans' fear mongering works on them.   

Fear leads to the dark side. I don't have fear but legitimate questions. The left has not sufficiently answered those questions.

In this instance you picked medicare for all which happens to be one of the least on my list that I object to. That why I tried to give you 2 for 1 to start with.

[Bench]

Trump: "“I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistleblower the information? Because that’s close to a spy. You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now." 

[BudGirl]

Fear leads to the dark side. I don't have fear but legitimate questions. The left has not sufficiently answered those questions.

In this instance you picked medicare for all which happens to be one of the least on my list that I object to. That why I tried to give you 2 for 1 to start with.

Has the right answered those questions?? 

[BudGirl]

Trump: "“I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistleblower the information? Because that’s close to a spy. You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now." 

Huh, sounds like the threat of retaliation. 

[HudsonHawk]

Fear leads to the dark side. I don't have fear but legitimate questions. The left has not sufficiently answered those questions.

In this instance you picked medicare for all which happens to be one of the least on my list that I object to. That why I tried to give you 2 for 1 to start with.

We all have questions.  That doesn't mean we should blindly accept where we are and dismiss alternatives. 

Your 2 for 1 was essentially just 1...the exorbitant costs to go to college and all that results.  And that's not at the top of critical list...it's several rungs below health care, which is the single biggest burden people are likely to face in their lifetimes.  And be that as it may, it's the single biggest issue over which the scared cry "SOCIALISM!!"  I'm glad you don't. 

[Bench]

Huh, sounds like the threat of retaliation.

Here's some fun context for the comments: "The person briefed said that many of the diplomats in the room took particular offense because there were children in the audience and it was supposed to be a family-friendly event. Instead, the kids there saw Trump talking ominously about treason and spies and how we need to be rougher on people."

[TeeJoe]

Has the right answered those questions??

No, they haven't.  But the ineptitude of the right doesn't make the platforms of the left legitimate or give a pass to not answer how the programs they put forth are going to work.

[TeeJoe]

We all have questions.  That doesn't mean we should blindly accept where we are and dismiss alternatives.

On this we agree
 

[moriartp]

Fear leads to the dark side. I don't have fear but legitimate questions. The left has not sufficiently answered those questions.

Here are some proposed solutions to doctor shortages along with an honest look at the political challenges of making those solutions happen.

There's a lot that goes into the cost problem: shitty insurers, MD protectionism, hospital monopolization, prescription patent abuse, etc., etc. I do get frustrated with the politicians who oversimplify things (e.g. focusing entirely on the insurance companies) because it makes M4A seem like a half-baked idea. But there is a lot of good work being done behind the scenes, and I think the best thing we can do as voters is commit to the goal of M4A but demand more details about how our representatives are going to do it right.

[jbm]

Trump: "“I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistleblower the information? Because that’s close to a spy. You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now."

In the past, a lot of the populace viewed these types of statements as tough guy shit, they might of even admired it. I bet that threshold has been, or will shortly be crossed where these statements are increasingly viewed as the ramblings of a terrified man.

[Limey]

Here's some fun context for the comments: "The person briefed said that many of the diplomats in the room took particular offense because there were children in the audience and it was supposed to be a family-friendly event. Instead, the kids there saw Trump talking ominously about treason and spies and how we need to be rougher on people."

Makes one sentimental for the days when he was just talking about fuck-yachts to Boy Scouts. 

[Limey]

Here are some proposed solutions to doctor shortages along with an honest look at the political challenges of making those solutions happen.

There's a lot that goes into the cost problem: shitty insurers, MD protectionism, hospital monopolization, prescription patent abuse, etc., etc. I do get frustrated with the politicians who oversimplify things (e.g. focusing entirely on the insurance companies) because it makes M4A seem like a half-baked idea. But there is a lot of good work being done behind the scenes, and I think the best thing we can do as voters is commit to the goal of M4A but demand more details about how our representatives are going to do it right.

Medicare runs at about a 3% overhead.  Show me a for-profit insurance company that comes within 15 points of that!

[TeeJoe]

Here are some proposed solutions to doctor shortages along with an honest look at the political challenges of making those solutions happen.

There's a lot that goes into the cost problem: shitty insurers, MD protectionism, hospital monopolization, prescription patent abuse, etc., etc. I do get frustrated with the politicians who oversimplify things (e.g. focusing entirely on the insurance companies) because it makes M4A seem like a half-baked idea. But there is a lot of good work being done behind the scenes, and I think the best thing we can do as voters is commit to the goal of M4A but demand more details about how our representatives are going to do it right.

Thanks for the link! Some of what the article proposed is a good start.

[Limey]

New poll has only 49% of Republicans opposed to impeachment. 

Meanwhile, the pro-impeachment percentage has increased by 13 since Sunday.

This is the fallacy of Pelosi chicken-and-egg argument against impeachment playing out in real time. 

[Waldo]

One last thought on student loans...

I’m hoping that there starts to be less of a stigma associated with not going to a four-year university. People go even if they can’t afford it because they feel like they have to, so they go get a degree just to get a degree, can’t find a job with it, and have trouble paying their loans off. Or worse, they don’t finish their degree for whatever reason and are saddled with debt and nothing to show for it.

My son will be starting the college decision process in about six years, my daughter another three years after that. Who knows what tuition rates will be by then. I don’t want college to be the automatic choice for them if it’s not right (or not necessary) for the careers they want.

[Waldo]

Medicare runs at about a 3% overhead.  Show me a for-profit insurance company that comes within 15 points of that!

That is shockingly efficient for the gubmint. If I correctly interpreted the numbers I just looked up, the UK’s NHS is about 2.5%.

[Limey]

That is shockingly efficient for the gubmint. If I correctly interpreted the numbers I just looked up, the UK’s NHS is about 2.5%.

It’s actually very doable when you don’t have to spend anything on marketing, make a profit for shareholders or pay a CEO a gadgillion dollars. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

It’s actually very doable when you don’t have to spend anything on marketing, make a profit for shareholders or pay a CEO a gadgillion dollars.

The worst thing about competition is marketing. Think how cheap auto insurance would be if the insurers weren't allowed to fill airtime with Flo, the lizard, Aaron Rogers, Shaq and the General, J.K. Simmons and that other guy that was in Oz, Pedro Cerrano, or the myriad of other hucksters hawking their wares.

[Limey]

The worst thing about competition is marketing. Think how cheap auto insurance would be if the insurers weren't allowed to fill airtime with Flo, the lizard, Aaron Rogers, Shaq and the General, J.K. Simmons and that other guy that was in Oz, Pedro Cerrano, or the myriad of other hucksters hawking their wares.

When Big Pharma bleats about having to charge so much for drugs because they need to fund R&D, just remember that they spend twice as much on marketing as they do on research (and much of the research budget is spent on making competitor-products to existing drugs).

[Bench]

I'd say he's coming increasingly unhinged but it's par for the course.

Trump rants nonsensically about his own spelling mistake, while confusing hyphen for apostrophe

[Limey]

The House Intel Committee is going to take the lead on the Ukraine investigation.  Good.  Schiff’s great at this stuff.

Also, they’re scheduling hearings for next week.  Good.  This is too important to take a recess. 

They’re expected to call Barr and Giuliani.  Good.  I’ll be in my bunk. 

[jbm]

Some press are now trying to couch this as an issue of national security.  They’re also hung up on the cover up. They’ve already lost their focus.

Sure, one can argue that there are national security issues here, and sure, all criminals try to hide their deeds, but the issues here are abuse of power and undermining democracy. Even the Trump camp knows this.  That’s why they tried to cover it all up.

[moriartp]

They’re expected to call Barr and Giuliani.  Good.  I’ll be in my bunk.

yikes

[Lefty]

Kaiser Foundation study of US health insurance:  https://slate.com/business/2019/09/health-insurance-us-kaiser-study.html

[Limey]

Some press are now trying to couch this as an issue of national security.  They’re also hung up on the cover up. They’ve already lost their focus.

Sure, one can argue that there are national security issues here, and sure, all criminals try to hide their deeds, but the issues here are abuse of power and undermining democracy. Even the Trump camp knows this.  That’s why they tried to cover it all up.

The national security issue is serious.  If Trump is involving foreign governments in his illegal schemes that he then covers up, they have leverage over him. 

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Have you read the platforms from some of the 3rd party candidates?

Guess what I'm trying to say, is that if the Democrats could run a candidate that's closer to the center, myself and many other independents would probably be in.

It will be interesting to see how much the eventual nominee retreats from her (or his) most audacious proposals. Warren doesn't strike me as one to temper herself, but it's certainly a norm that candidates swerve left (or right) for the primaries and reverse course for the general. Perhaps the eventual nominee will put some distance between herself (or himself) and her (or his) more unapologetically socialist proposals.

A quirk of this batty season we find ourselves in is that lefty policies tend to be extremely popular when people are polled about them. I think more and more that polls are active agents of evil, and the first politico to actually run in spite of them will find they're creating their own weather. We are a great malleable shitheap of mostly undoctrinaire types, the plaything of cynical marketing from the right and failed expectations from the dems. And we're ungovernably large. And we're too well off to give enough of a shit about tyranny of the minority. In other words the time's could hardly he riper for something great or horrible to happen.

I forgot what my point was.

[Limey]

Pompeo has been subpoenaed to provide documents relating to Rudi’s incessant blabber mouth Ukraine.

Barr’s next, I’m sure.  Maybe Pence too, after Trump outed him.

[Gizzmonic]

Here are some proposed solutions to doctor shortages along with an honest look at the political challenges of making those solutions happen.

I call bullshit on this talking point:

For example, many states now allow nurse practitioners to prescribe medicine without the supervision of a doctor, and there is no evidence that this has resulted in worse outcomes for patients.

Counterpoint: https://www.medpagetoday.com/nursing/nursing/82253

Doctor's salaries are a pretty small part of the problem compared to hospital/insurance company bureaucrat salaries, or pharmaceutical company marketing budgets.

We already have universal health care, it's called the emergency room. It encourages the worst possible health practices (wait until you are dying) and leads to the most expense for all of us.

 The status quo is not acceptable; we need a single-payer system.

[Limey]

Kurt Volker resigned from the State Department tonight, to spend more time getting Giuliani’s tire marks off his suit. 

Also, reportedly, Trump met with Wayne LaPierre today to ask the NRA to fund his impeachment defense.  The story goes that LaPierre asked for Trump’s help in quashing gun reform which Trump agreed to give.  Which itself is an impeachable offense. 

His a crime layer cake. 

[jbm]

The national security issue is serious.  If Trump is involving foreign governments in his illegal schemes that he then covers up, they have leverage over him.

I don’t really disagree, but it’s not as clear as the core crime and is just going to distract from what people can clearly understand.  We don’t need this to be about whether people can blackmail Trump.

[Limey]

I don’t really disagree, but it’s not as clear as the core crime and is just going to distract from what people can clearly understand.  We don’t need this to be about whether people can blackmail Trump.

Agreed.  This is an old-fashioned scandal, which is why I think it’s taken off so quickly.  Trump’s prior offenses were all committed out in the open, on Twitter, and often previewed before they were done.  The press and the Democrats did not have a playbook for that. 

This one is a crime committed in secret that was then exposed.  That’s old school, and they all knew how how to work it.  In just 3 days it has turned politics inside out and embroiled the president, the VP, the Sec. of State, the AG, America’s mayor and America’s son-in-law (oh yes, Kushner’s in this up to his pencil neck too). 

Now we’re in a world that everyone knows how it goes...except Trump. 

[Limey]

The over-classification of Trump’s calls with Zelenskiy, Putin and MBS (you knew those other two would crop up, right?) is itself against the law. 

I am giddy at the prospect that Trump is going to get proper fucked when the contents of his secret server are subpoenaed and brought forth. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Roger Angell turned 99 on September 19.  I truly hope he outlives this thread and I look forward to the next presidential election to see if it will be even more of an important vote.

[jbm]

I’m starting to contemplate that the Senate may actually remove him. A week ago,I thought the chance was zero; it’s definitely above zero now.  We hear quotes saying that 30 Republican Senators would vote for removal if it were a private vote. I also read a quote from a Republican house member from Nevada who isn’t on board with impeachment, but wants to gather facts and said:

it would be a “problem” if it was “proven” that Trump used government agencies to “put (his) finger on the scale of an election.”

Once Republicans publicly float language like this, you know things are changing behind the scenes. 

[Limey]

It’s snowballing now.  Everyone is confessing what they know to the nearest newsy.  To wit, reports tonight say that the readout of the infamous Oval Office meeting in 2017 - the day after Trump had fired Comey when he met with assorted Russian dignitaries and talked about the pressure being off - was also deep-sixed in the basement server.  The report also says that he told them he didn’t give a shit about the Russians interfering in our elections. 

The thing is, the readouts of these meetings and conversations aren’t as classified as the place they’re being stashed.  They are subpoenable (is that a word?) and not subject to privilege or national security concerns.  They need to subpoena all the readouts on that server - it’s a closet full of a billion skeletons. 

[Limey]

This onion is getting peeled by a ferret on espresso.

Former DNI Coates was fired just days after the Zelenskiy call.  Trump wanted his man installed as the Acting DNI but found out that, by law, the Deputy DNI takes the Acting post.  So Deputy DNI had to go too, and so Coates had to tell the excellent Sue Gordon that she had to resign.  Trump put up a spectacularly bad nominee who flamed out and ended up with Maguire as his new DNI. 

With what we know now, this looks infinitely more shady.  Did he have to remove the intelligence professionals in order that The transcripts of him committing his high crimes be buried in his secret server?  Coates and Gordon probably just made Schiff’s witness list. 

[Bench]

In his furious Sunday-long tweet storm, Trump called for Schiff to be tried for treason and warned against civil war if impeachment continues. In a normal world, that would be the last thing a politician would say before being forced to resign. In Trump World, it barely gets an above the fold headline.

[TeeJoe]

In his furious Sunday-long tweet storm, Trump called for Schiff to be tried for treason and warned against civil war if impeachment continues. In a normal world, that would be the last thing a politician would say before being forced to resign. In Trump World, it barely gets an above the fold headline.

Master Windu will need to bring better backup this time!

[Bench]

Here'smore fodder for the obvious undermining of national security:  "Attorney General William P. Barr has held private meetings overseas with foreign intelligence officials seeking their help in a Justice Department inquiry that President Trump hopes will discredit U.S. intelligence agencies’ examination of Russian interference in the 2016 election, according to people familiar with the matter."WaPo article.

It's amazing to me that now--months after the Mueller report was released and (right or wrongly) met with a collective shrug despite detailing multiple crimes--Trump and his folks are still working to undermine both the report and the underlying foundation for the investigation that Russia launched a cyber campaign to help Trump's campaign. Hell, even Trump's conversation with the Ukrainian president was the marriage of three crazy conspiracies designed to blame someone other than Russia for the hack on the DNC (or more specifically that the DNC famed Russia).

Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal reports that Pompeo was listening in on the call with the Ukrainian president. Last week Pompeo pretended not to know what was said in the conversation.

[Waldo]

It's amazing to me that now--months after the Mueller report was released and (right or wrongly) met with a collective shrug despite detailing multiple crimes--Trump and his folks are still working to undermine both the report and the underlying foundation for the investigation that Russia launched a cyber campaign to help Trump's campaign.

Are you kidding? We’re about due for yet another statement from yet another NOAA lackey that Alabama was absolutely at high risk of tropical storm damage.

[jbm]

He is a psycho

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/us/politics/trump-border-wars.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Privately, the president had often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water-filled trench, stocked with snakes or alligators, prompting aides to seek a cost estimate. He wanted the wall electrified, with spikes on top that could pierce human flesh. After publicly suggesting that soldiers shoot migrants if they threw rocks, the president backed off when his staff told him that was illegal. But later in a meeting, aides recalled, he suggested that they shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down. That’s not allowed either, they told him.

[Limey]

Obama mocks GOP, jokes they want border moat

Maybe they'll need a moat.  Maybe they'll want alligators in the moat.

Oh yeah, this was from 2011.  #BeyondSatire

[Limey]

Oh, and it’s bad enough that foreign governments pay Trump by staying at his properties, but now Politico reports that foreign governments are paying Trump for stays at his resorts and then not staying there.  There’s a spate of large block bookings being made and paid for, but no one shows up. 

[Bench]

Oh, and it’s bad enough that foreign governments pay Trump by staying at his properties, but now Politico reports that foreign governments are paying Trump for stays at his resorts and then not staying there.  There’s a spate of large block bookings being made and paid for, but no one shows up.

“The unifying theme of congressional investigations is examining the president’s abuse of his office and his power to advance his personal political agenda and his goal of financial self- enrichment,” said Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.), a member of the House Oversight Committee.

I'd say that's on the money and also why it is counter productive to focus impeachment only on Ukraine amongst the sea of crimes.

[Lefty]

Bernie had 2 stents put in a blocked artery after experiencing chest pains. 

Get well soon, Bernie, but unfortunately your campaign should pretty much be over.

https://twitter.com/taragolshan/status/1179405504507981824

[Limey]

I'd say that's on the money and also why it is counter productive to focus impeachment only on Ukraine amongst the sea of crimes.

It’s a balancing act between not leaving anything out (which means it would take forever to finish) and going narrow suggesting that everything else was ok (or at least not impeachable). 

I think they need to pick maybe 3 things:
Abuse of power (Ukraine)
Influence peddling (foreign/lobbyist spending/investment at Trump/Kushner properties)
Self-enrichment (govt spending at Trump properties)

I am leaving out anything from the Mueller report because - as serious as it is - it would be cleaner to go with all new stuff.  The RWNM would make it all about the Mueller report which was twisted into nothingness and with hindsight was so narrowly focused that it blew right by all the rest of this.  Also, the new stuff is all entirely while Trump has been president, so it’s clearly valid for oversight by Congress.

ETA:  Plus, of course, any shit that any of the pull from now on can be considered obstruction, which is an impeachable offense.  As Trump’s knee jerk reaction to getting caught criming, is to do more crimes, this will likely lead to an ever-extending list of charges. 

[Limey]

Judging by his Twitter feed in the last few minutes, Trump was watching the Pelosi/Schiff briefing.  He reacted with his customary calmness and sanity and did not at all go off on an expletive-laden tweet storm that was as as fact-free as it was unhinged. 

PS. The Dow has dropped 500 points today, after dropping over 300 points yesterday, because Trump has killed manufacturing activity.  It’s at the lowest point it’s been in 10 years, i.e. since the end of the 2008/9 recession. 

[Bench]

It’s a balancing act between not leaving anything out (which means it would take forever to finish) and going narrow suggesting that everything else was ok (or at least not impeachable). 

I think they need to pick maybe 3 things:
Abuse of power (Ukraine)
Influence peddling (foreign/lobbyist spending/investment at Trump/Kushner properties)
Self-enrichment (govt spending at Trump properties)

I am leaving out anything from the Mueller report because - as serious as it is - it would be cleaner to go with all new stuff.  The RWNM would make it all about the Mueller report which was twisted into nothingness and with hindsight was so narrowly focused that it blew right by all the rest of this.  Also, the new stuff is all entirely while Trump has been president, so it’s clearly valid for oversight by Congress.

ETA:  Plus, of course, any shit that any of the pull from now on can be considered obstruction, which is an impeachable offense.  As Trump’s knee jerk reaction to getting caught criming, is to do more crimes, this will likely lead to an ever-extending list of charges.

The ten discrete examples of obstruction in volume 2 of the Mueller report all occurred while he was president. I can't imagine not including that in articles of impeachment.

[Limey]

The ten discrete examples of obstruction in volume 2 of the Mueller report all occurred while he was president. I can't imagine not including that in articles of impeachment.

They are serious and eminently impeachable, but their inclusion will muddy the very clear waters of the more recent crimes.  And with Mueller himself being almost a hostile witness, I’d hate to see all this other good stuff dragged off course when that stuff is already in the record. 

#KISS

[Limey]

Latest opinion polls show a plurality support impeachment and removal.

Trump’s (entirely predictable) strategy is that he will burn everything and everyone to the ground if anyone tries to remove him from office or even interfere with his ongoing crime spree. 

[Limey]

Rick Perry is the latest to be dragged into the Ukraine scandal.  Oops.

[Waldo]

On the WH lawn this morning, Trump invited China to investigate the Bidens.

He's trying to normalize it.

[Limey]

On the WH lawn this morning, Trump invited China to investigate the Bidens.

He's trying to normalize it.

Asked what he wanted President Zelensky to do about the Bidens, “If they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the Bidens.”  His strategy appears to be to keep committing crimes so that the law can’t catch up to where he is. 

[MusicMan]

“Mr. President, you can’t secretly commit crimes.”
“Read you loud and clear.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Limey]

Pence goes all in with Trump:

 "The American people have a right to know if the vice president of the United States, or his family, profited from his position."

Either that, or he’s confessing.

[Limey]

The text trail of the Ukraine thing are totally damning.  You can see Ukraine desperately trying to convince us as to their dire situation, and all the get is “Say Biden” over and over.

Oh, and after Trump shocked us by calling on China to investigate Biden, it turns out that he asked Xi personally to do this during a June call. 

There is absolutely zero chance for a clean election with this man involved. 

[Limey]

Xi update:  Trump promised silence on Hong Kong protests in return for an investigation into Biden.

So now we have Trump willing to abandon Ukrainians to Russia and Hong Kongians (Konganese? Kongolians?) to China in order to get re-elected.  He also called Boris Johnson asking for the same thing while Bill Barr has been haranguing Australia and Italy.  How many others?

This is just one week of the impeachment inquiry.

I am not sure with whom I'm more angry:  Trump and his flying Trumpanzees, the Republicans in Congress who have gone deaf, dumb and blind, or the Democrats who are being calm and methodical when this is running around, hair on fire stuff.

[Bench]

I am not sure with whom I'm more angry:  Trump and his flying Trumpanzees, the Republicans in Congress who have gone deaf, dumb and blind, or the Democrats who are being calm and methodical when this is running around, hair on fire stuff.

It's the Republicans in Congress. Trump is a corrupt daft narcissistic lunatic and we all knew that going in.  The Democrats, in their ham-fisted way, are at least trying establish accountability. The congressional Republicans have utterly abdicated their responsibilities to the nation.

[MusicMan]

It's the Republicans in Congress. Trump is a corrupt daft narcissistic lunatic and we all knew that going in.  The Democrats, in their ham-fisted way, are at least trying establish accountability. The congressional Republicans have utterly abdicated their responsibilities to the nation.

Correct on all accounts.


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[Limey]

Having fired a test missile - successfully - from underwater, North Korea has now withdrawn from negotiations over denuclearization.  #ArtOfTheDeal

Trump is now blaming Rick Perry for the call with President Zelenskiy.  No really. 

Trump spent the day rage-tweeting about Mitt Romney. 

This is fine. 

[Limey]

Oh, and tomorrow’s Sunday show line up includes no one from the administration, no senate republicans and no house republicans. 

[MusicMan]

Having fired a test missile - successfully - from underwater, North Korea has now withdrawn from negotiations over denuclearization.  #ArtOfTheDeal

Trump is now blaming Rick Perry for the call with President Zelenskiy.  No really. 

Trump spent the day rage-tweeting about Mitt Romney. 

This is fine.

Only in a Trump administration could Rick Perry be the mastermind


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[Navin R Johnson]

It’s amazingly sad people still support this cretin. 

[Limey]

The whistleblower's lawyer says he now has a second whistleblower who has first-hand knowledge of the calls and has filed the appropriate complaints so is protected under the law*.

Another attorney says that he has multiple administration staff consulting with his firm.  I don't know why we are not seeing a joint press conference with Mattis, Knielsen, Coates, Kelly, Tillerson etc. etc. saying exactly what they know.  Those who get out in front of this are going to be saved and the rest are going to go under in the tsunami.

Speaking of...Mike Pompeo seemed to let slip that he was on more/most of the calls of interest.

If Ron Johnson's defense of this is anything to go by, it's all about saying that Trump is right to try to get to the bottom of why Russia was framed for 2016.  That's got to burn on the way out, right?  It's completely ridiculous.  Apart from anything else, all 14 intelligence services agreed that it was Russia, including the CIA which was at the time being run by...checks notes...Mike Pompeo.




* Whistleblower protections that were updated and strengthened and signed into law by...checks notes...Donald J. Trump.

[Waldo]

Couple of quick hits this morning:

- Trump has ordered the withdraw of US forces from Syria because hey, mission accomplished against ISIS, apparently.  Brett McGurk, Trump's former special envoy for defeating ISIS, is pissed.  Nikki Haley, Trump's former UN ambassador, is pissed.  Even Lindsey Graham sounds pissed, although he throws in enough qualifiers to leave open the option to walk it back later.

- Federal judge orders Trump to turn over eight years of tax returns.

Trump's Twitter account should be popcorn material today.

[Limey]

Trump was ordered to cough up hid tax returns by a federal judge and then another federal judge immediately issued a stay on that order.  It helps to have packed the federal courts with cronies and believers. 

[Limey]

The Turks have already started bombing the Syrian border.  They have no idea where the US forces are, but they’re still bombing. 

This is a bigger clusterfuck than the Ukraine shit last week, and that was unprecedentedly fucked.

There is no bottom; only grift, corruption, incompetence and perhaps, right now, the deaths of some of our finest. 

He needs to be dragged from the Oval Office without delay. 

[Limey]

Amb. Snodland - this week’s dumbest member of the Trump crime family - has been blocked by the State dept from testifying in closed session to congress today.  The State dept is also Hindi g back the full text exchanges on the subject which, for the record, we’re all made on WhatsApp using personal phones and not on secure government phones/servers. 

I mean, they just look so innocent, right?

Trump is waving his tiny, mushroom-headed cock at congress.  It’s time they took a long run up and kicked him right in the junk.  Start putting people in jail.

In other news, impeachment is gaining popularity across all sides of the political divide, including being +21 with Republicans.  This Syria thing has Trump in an incredibly weak and vulnerable situation.  It’s time to go after him full bore.  It’s not just politically expedient, it will save lives. 

[jbm]

I found this interesting, in that it is a sign of new cracks in the armor:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/10/08/trump-danger-losing-mandate-heaven-over-syria-decision-pat-robertson-warns/

The president, who allowed Khashoggi to be cut into pieces without any repercussions whatsoever, is now allowing the Christians and the Kurds to be massacred by the Turks,” Robertson said. He additionally blasted Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan — with whom Trump has a friendly rapport — as a “thug” and a “dictator.

That’s Pat Robertson, using inflammatory language directed at Trump, rather than directing it at Trump’s opponents.  I realize he is crazy and this is not Ukraine-related, but if there starts to be cracks in the the crazy support, what’s left?

[Limey]

Sondland was advised by the White House, in a 12:30am voicemail, that he should not testify.  That voicemail will be one of the subpoenaed items.  They are so dumb they do all this stuff Lon recorded media (like texting “call me” instead of just calling). 

Speaking of which, Trump tweeted out that it was his decision to hold back Sondland’s testimony.  So that’s another article of impeachment for the ever-growing pile. 

[Bench]

Trump has fully embraced obstruction of justice. NYT: The White House declared war on the impeachment investigation, saying in a letter to House leaders that it would not cooperate with the inquiry.

[Limey]

Trump has fully embraced obstruction of justice. NYT: The White House declared war on the impeachment investigation, saying in a letter to House leaders that it would not cooperate with the inquiry.

Subpoena them all and fill up the jail. 

[Limey]

Reports are that Turkey and Russia...yes, Russia...are mounting a coordinated offensive against the Kurds.  Coming at them from two directions.  This is a massacre of 2 million people happening in real time, and it’s down entirely to one man.  I am completely lost for words. 

[Limey]

Some peanuts in this giant turd of politics right now:

- A new poll has more than 50% in favor of removing Trump

- Warren is now the nationwide front-runner* in the Democratic primary


* There's lots of love for Biden,  which is why he was the out-and-out leader for so long.  But this was mostly name recognition.  As the campaign has progressed, it has become more and more clear that he’s not up to this.  His stilted and slow responses to various moments has been concerning; his complete inability to push back on the attack on his family has been a disaster.  I mean, Trump is going after your son’s foreign business dealings...it’s right fucking there!  EOR

[Bench]

Meanwhile the list of documented sexual assault/perviness victims of Trump continues to expand:

While the president has publicly faced allegations from two dozen women, this book reveals another 43 allegations of alleged inappropriate behavior, including 26 instances of unwanted sexual contact.

[Limey]

The Turks are hitting the Kurds with air strikes, including civilians.  They are begging for the enforcement of the No Fly Zone but US forces have been told to stand down. 

ISIS has been attacking Raqqa, including suicide bombings, and most of the city is without power. 

This is just 72 hours since Trump’s fateful phone call with Erdogan in which he was said to have been “rolled”.

And don’t forget that last time (that we know of) Trump talked to Erdogan, the same thing happened - he promised to pull out of Syria completely - but the uproar from Trump’s own party forced him to reverse the “decision”.  This time, Erdogan was prepared and had his forces ready to roll immediately so that he would turn Trump’s stupidity into a fait accompli.

This is so fucked up.  If we let this stand, millions will die and ISIS will be resurrected.  If we push back, we will be in a shooting war with Turkey and Russia.  But, her emails...right?

[Limey]

Trump has released a statement confirming Turkey’s attacks on the Kurds.  Here’s the link. 

[Bench]

The Turks are hitting the Kurds with air strikes, including civilians.  They are begging for the enforcement of the No Fly Zone but US forces have been told to stand down. 

ISIS has been attacking Raqqa, including suicide bombings, and most of the city is without power. 

This is just 72 hours since Trump’s fateful phone call with Erdogan in which he was said to have been “rolled”.

And don’t forget that last time (that we know of) Trump talked to Erdogan, the same thing happened - he promised to pull out of Syria completely - but the uproar from Trump’s own party forced him to reverse the “decision”.  This time, Erdogan was prepared and had his forces ready to roll immediately so that he would turn Trump’s stupidity into a fait accompli.

This is so fucked up.  If we let this stand, millions will die and ISIS will be resurrected.  If we push back, we will be in a shooting war with Turkey and Russia.  But, her emails...right?

It's an astonishing Game of Thrones level betrayal of our only allies fighting against ISIS in the area.

There are reports that residential areas are being bombed by the Turks. This is a completely unnecessary and avoidable humanitarian catastrophe. 

[Limey]

It's an astonishing Game of Thrones level betrayal of our only allies fighting against ISIS in the area.

There are reports that residential areas are being bombed by the Turks. This is a completely unnecessary and avoidable humanitarian catastrophe.

I’m not sure it even rises to GoT level.  This is our foreign policy being sold for - in the grand scheme of things - paltry amounts of money into Trump’s pocket.  He sold his soul for a Trump tower in Moscow, and he is destroying the US’ ability to influence the world for a generation.

Trump reneged on the TPP, the Paris Climate accords, the Iran nuclear deal and NAFTA - while threatening endlessly to kill NATO - and now has abandoned the Kurds to annihilation.  Even if the next president is a hybrid love-child of Jesus, Mohamed and Krishna (i.e. Elizabeth Warren), no one will trust US policy because we will reanimate Ghengis Khan and elect him 8 years later.

Trump is stress-testing this grand experiment in democracy, and it’s failing on almost every front.   

[Limey]

8 Kurdish civilian deaths recorded this far.  Of course, while civilian deaths are tragic, so will be all the deaths of Kurdish fighters who have been abandoned to be slaughtered by vastly superior forces. 

The news should be nothing but this until it’s resolved.  Even Jesus knew that we had to look out for the Christians in Syria (yes, for you Trumpist lurkers - the Kurds are Christians). 

[The Spleen]

The Kurds are Christians.

Some are, but most are Muslim (you may be confusing them with Armenians).
This is still abhorrent, and the reality that how much Republicans will care about these events depends in large part on the religion (and race) of the victims is sickening.

[Limey]

Some are, but most are Muslim (you may be confusing them with Armenians).
This is still abhorrent, and the reality that how much Republicans will care about these events depends in large part on the religion (and race) of the victims is sickening.

Thanks for the correction. 

As to the race thing, I think it’s even beyond that.  Trumpists would abandon Europe to Putin if Trump told them to.  They’ve already sold out Ukraine, which is Europe’s largest country not called Russia.

[Limey]

The ground attack has started. 

This isn’t GoT, this is LOTR.  It’s Helm’s Deep without the intervention of the Riders of Rohan; it’s Osgiliath; it’s Minas Tireth without the intervention of Theoden and the dead; it’s the burning of the Westfold; it’s the scouting of the Shire. 

[Bench]

Some are, but most are Muslim (you may be confusing them with Armenians).
This is still abhorrent, and the reality that how much Republicans will care about these events depends in large part on the religion (and race) of the victims is sickening.

Let's not forget what Turkey did to the Armenians.

[BudGirl]

How do you get out of Impeachment hearings?  You create a diversion - or a war.  Take your pick America.

[Bench]

Trump on the Kurds: "They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy." He says they're only interested in fighting for "their land." He adds, "With all of that being said, we like the Kurds."

President Trump: Captured ISIS fighters held by Kurds in northern Syria “are going to be escaping to Europe, that’s where they want to go, back to their homes.”

[Bench]

Correct on all accounts.

Rep. Mark Green, with NPR's Here & Now, talking about Trump and Syria:

"Yeah, I disagree with what he’s doing now, I wish it wasn’t happening, but I still fully support it."

[Knoxbanedoodle]

8 Kurdish civilian deaths recorded this far.  Of course, while civilian deaths are tragic, so will be all the deaths of Kurdish fighters who have been abandoned to be slaughtered by vastly superior forces. 

The news should be nothing but this until it’s resolved.  Even Jesus knew that we had to look out for the Christians in Syria (yes, for you Trumpist lurkers - the Kurds are Christians).

I don't think most people who pulled the lever for Two Corinthians give a shit about that one way or the other.

It's time for everybody in red states to start leaning on their senators and representatives. I'm contacting mine today.

[Limey]

Fox News poll:

Do not impeach:  40%
Impeach but do not remove: 4%
Impeach and remove:  51%

Fox Fucking News!

[MRaup]

Fox News poll:

Do not impeach:  40%
Impeach but do not remove: 4%
Impeach and remove:  51%

Fox Fucking News!

FAKE NEWS!

[chuck]

Rep. Mark Green, with NPR's Here & Now, talking about Trump and Syria:

"Yeah, I disagree with what he’s doing now, I wish it wasn’t happening, but I still fully support it."

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Republican Party.

[Lefty]

We have a long and sorry history of totally fucking the Kurds over.  Why they ever believe us, I have no idea.

[Limey]

We have a long and sorry history of totally fucking the Kurds over.  Why they ever believe us, I have no idea.

Because Trump’s sacrifice of the Kurds came out of the blue, it appears that we had been giving Turkey up-to-the-minute tracking data on all forces in the region...including the Kurds.

[Limey]

Trump’s scandals and crimes are all just blowing up today.

Two of Giuliani’s henchmen in his Ukraine gambit were arrested last night trying to leave the country.  They were due to testify to Congress today; they are facing charges for violating campaign contribution laws (naturally).

Control of military aid to Ukraine was taken away from career bureaucrats - who raised concerns that withholding it for political purposes is illegal - and given to a political operative - also illegal. 

43 more women have accused Trump of sexual assault, including one who claims that he actually grabbed her by the pussy and pushed her into a room. 

[jbm]

I just don’t trust anything Barr does, or allows. So, either he’s setting up Rudy to take a fall for Trump (which won’t work) or he just allows these guys to be arrested because it’s better than having them testify.

[Limey]

I just don’t trust anything Barr does, or allows. So, either he’s setting up Rudy to take a fall for Trump (which won’t work) or he just allows these guys to be arrested because it’s better than having them testify.

It was the SDNY that had them pinched, apparently before any charges had been filed.  Barr may not have been aware of it, therefore.  Looks like the SDNY got an alert they were leaving the country and just decided to go get them. 

Barr is working for Trump 100%. 

[Limey]

Giuliani’s goons are being represented by the same lawyers who defended Paul Manafort.  👀

[Limey]

The indictment of the above goons includes a very short alignment of dots whereby Foreign National-1 (a Russian) , funneled money to the goons who then donated it to various GOP campaigns.  This is what happens when a smoking gun becomes a mushroom cloud. 

[Limey]

I just don’t trust anything Barr does, or allows. So, either he’s setting up Rudy to take a fall for Trump (which won’t work) or he just allows these guys to be arrested because it’s better than having them testify.

Who tipped off the goons that set them running?

[Limey]

Who tipped off the goons that set them running?

Giuliani was spotted having lunch with them YESTERDAY.  Who tipped off Giuliani?

It’s now being reported that the DOJ has been aware of the SDNY’s investigation into these two for months.

[Limey]

Developments today, of which there are many and of import:

- The Turks have bombed US special forces, presumably in error

- The former Amb to Ukraine defied the State dept or complied with a congressional subpoena - depending on what channel you watch - and testified to Congress today.  She confirmed that she’d been recalled because of pressure from the White House on the State dept, and that the State dept is a mess of pissed off people

- A Federal appellate panel voted 2-1 that Trump cannot block a subpoena for his financial records from Mazars.  The dissent was from a Trump-appointed judge who’s opinion was so thin and poorly argued that it was ridiculed in the affirming decision.

- A Federal court slapped down Trump’s declaration of an emergency to fund wall construction.

- a Federal court slapped down Trump’s attempt to suspend the “public charge” rule that protects green card holders receiving government assistance.

- Rudy’s goons have a significant presence on social media, and it’s pretty hard to find a post, photo or video that doesn’t have Rudy or a Trump or three in it. 

- The Dow bounced based on Trump claiming he got a trade deal agreed with China.  Because that has been true every other time he’s said that?

- Lindsey Graham got pranked into thinking he was talking to Turkish diplomats on the phone (it was a couple of Russian comedians) and he reversed entirely his public, anti-Syria withdrawal stance and was all in with Trump.  He’s got some splainin to do because he clearly wasn’t joking. 

- Shep Smith has quit Fox News. 

Quite a day. None of it good for Trump and his shrinking band of loyalists.

[Limey]

The whole situation in Syria is unraveling fast:

- Turkish forces are committing war crimes
- The Kurds have been forced into an alliance with Bashad’s, Russian-backed Syrian government
- No one is now fighting ISIS, who are escaping from their Kurdish captors
- US forces are cut off and in need of evac, most likely by airlift
- We are trying to figure out what to do about the 50 nukes we have stationed in Turkey

What a shitshow.  Aside from the death and destruction - which is horrifying - the big/only winners here are Putin, Bashad (i.e. Putin) and Erdogan.

This is completely indefensible, yet Republicans continue to offer bizarre third person criticisms as if it’s some kind of abstract issue and not the deaths (in one case reportedly by rape and stoning) of men, women and children who are our long time allies. 

My disgust for Trump and his enablers - be they in Washington, on TV, the 40% who still support Trump or those complete cunts who made the “Kingsman” parody - is overwhelming right now. 

[Limey]

Fiona Hill is my favorite person this week.  Her lawyers told the White House to take its privilege claim and shove it, citing the law, testified for 10 hours and, reportedly, told the committee:

- She blew the whistle on Giuliani to the NSC
- She did so at the urging of John Bolton
- She quoted Bolton as calling Giuliani a “hand grenade who’s going to blow everybody up” and that he’s “not part of whatever drug deal Rudy and Mulvaney are cooking up.”

So what this means is:

- Welcome to the party Mick Mulvaney
- Bolton is going to be a star witness who’ll be hard to smear as a deep state democrat
- This is accelerating - Neil Cavuto denounced Trump last night on Fox News

I remember a quote from an unnamed CIA office when Trump was elected, saying “he will die in jail.”  He definitely deserves to, but now it is starting to seem that he just might.  Republicans need to turn on him hard and fast to (try to) save their own political skins; Ukraine and the Kurds give them the excuse.  Once Congressional Republicans stop running interference, Trump is fucked.  And he’ll make sure to take everyone he can down with him. 

[Limey]

Lots of witnesses scheduled to testify this week, including Sondland who is expected to sing to save his own skin/business (his wife is quoted as being worried about a backlash against their hotel chain).  It’s going to get crazier and crazier, methinks. 

The Sondlans’s own the Provenance hotel chain, fyi.

[Lefty]

Hey das, saw this last night re: the NWS and NOAA and was wondering if you had any thoughts:

https://youtu.be/qMGn9T37eR8

[Bench]

The whole situation in Syria is unraveling fast:

- Turkish forces are committing war crimes
- The Kurds have been forced into an alliance with Bashad’s, Russian-backed Syrian government
- No one is now fighting ISIS, who are escaping from their Kurdish captors
- US forces are cut off and in need of evac, most likely by airlift
- We are trying to figure out what to do about the 50 nukes we have stationed in Turkey

What a shitshow.  Aside from the death and destruction - which is horrifying - the big/only winners here are Putin, Bashad (i.e. Putin) and Erdogan.

This is completely indefensible, yet Republicans continue to offer bizarre third person criticisms as if it’s some kind of abstract issue and not the deaths (in one case reportedly by rape and stoning) of men, women and children who are our long time allies. 

My disgust for Trump and his enablers - be they in Washington, on TV, the 40% who still support Trump or those complete cunts who made the “Kingsman” parody - is overwhelming right now.

And as expected Russian forces have swooped in to fill the vacuum in northern Syria.

[Limey]

And as expected Russian forces have swooped in to fill the vacuum in northern Syria.

The voters who wanted to “send a message” or “shake things up”, may have killed an entire people. 

[MusicMan]

The voters who wanted to “send a message” or “shake things up”, may have killed an entire people.

And most of them don’t care. (Some are nice people, I’m sure.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chuck]

And most of them don’t care. (Some are nice people, I’m sure.)

Lara Trump defends her father in law's withdrawal because, according to her, most people would have to google to find out who the Kurds are.

The old 'I'm an ignorant fuckwit and you're likely an ignorant fuckwit so it's ok to leave our allies to certain slaughter' foreign policy argument.

[jbm]

So, one of those two associates arrested earlier had a company which paid Rudy $500,000 last year.  I wonder what Rudy did to earn that?  Nothing, it’s just naked corruption.

The company’s name was Fraud Guarantee.  Can’t make this up.

[Limey]

So, one of those two associates arrested earlier had a company which paid Rudy $500,000 last year.  I wonder what Rudy did to earn that?  Nothing, it’s just naked corruption.

The company’s name was Fraud Guarantee.  Can’t make this up.

There’s a thread on Twitter for people to post funny alternative names but, aside from Crime R Us, Twitter had nothing.

[chuck]

The Trump Administration is now pursuing the curious political strategy of publicly admitting to crimes.

[MRaup]

Mildly concerned that Limey stroked out over some point in the last 2 days.

[Bench]

The Trump Administration is now pursuing the curious political strategy of publicly admitting to crimes.

It's not a crime if nobody does anything about it.

[Limey]

Mildly concerned that Limey stroked out over some point in the last 2 days.

It’s insane how we get an 8-year term’s worth of scandals in a day.  Every day. 

Today started with news that Turkey didn’t even bother pretending to adhere to the bullshit moratorium, and has been shelling the Kurds. 

[Waldo]

Today started with news that Turkey didn’t even bother pretending to adhere to the bullshit moratorium, and has been shelling the Kurds.

Including, reportedly, with napalm and white phosphorus.

[Limey]

I believe the number is 24.  That’s how many Republican Senators will need to join Democrats in voting to convict Trump in his upcoming impeachment trial*.  Mitt Romney gave a floor speech yesterday in which he went after Trump I’m very strong terms (for a Morman), and there are reports that he’s been working behind the scenes to gauge support for impeachment among his GOP colleagues. 

So here we are.  The fate of the Republic is falling on Romney’s incredibly narrow and rubbery shoulders.  I don’t feel good about it but, if he pulls it off, he will be the hero we need but not the one we deserve right now. 

[Limey]

Speaking of the good of the Republic, reports claim this morning that concerns were raised about Hunter Biden’s Burisma gig in 2015...and then VP Joe Biden quashed them. 

This cannot be a distraction and this cannot be a fig leaf over the gargantuan pile of corruption in the Trump administration.  Biden needs to suspend. 

[jbm]

I have no love for Biden, and his son profiting off his dad’s position is bullshit, although is just one turd compared with Trump’s truckloads.  However, I take exception to the characterization that he “quashed” it.  The report I saw said he didn’t want to deal with it while his other son was dying.

Any rate, I assume Biden is done, especially if the opposing narrative is that our politicians are opportunistic scoundrels that need serious checks.  I also hope is clarifies the Dem race as a race between Warren and someone more moderate, whoever that turns out to be.

[Limey]

I have no love for Biden, and his son profiting off his dad’s position is bullshit, although is just one turd compared with Trump’s truckloads.  However, I take exception to the characterization that he “quashed” it.  The report I saw said he didn’t want to deal with it while his other son was dying.

Any rate, I assume Biden is done, especially if the opposing narrative is that our politicians are opportunistic scoundrels that need serious checks.  I also hope is clarifies the Dem race as a race between Warren and someone more moderate, whoever that turns out to be.

I get what you’re saying, and I don’t want to run too deep into this diversionary rabbit hole, but Biden could’ve and should’ve stayed out of it.  He didn’t. 

If Trump is still there in 2020, the opponent cannot be someone with less corruption.  Even if it’s a fraction of a fraction of Trump’s corruption, Trump (and the media) will make them equivalent and neutralize the issue.

This is why Biden is hobbled, and this is why Bernie is hobbled (where are his tax returns - he hasn’t released them from back on the 2016 campaign).  The Dems could run Ronald Reagan and he’d get smeared as a socialist, so that’s baked in, but the candidate has to be clean on the issue where Trump is weakest, and that’s corruption. 

[Mr. Appropriate]

Surreal to read trump's boys attacking hunter biden over nepotism. Think trump and biden are both done. Wonder what's coming next.

Sent from my LG-US700 using Tapatalk

[Mr. Appropriate]

Lara Trump defends her father in law's withdrawal because, according to her, most people would have to google to find out who the Kurds are.

The old 'I'm an ignorant fuckwit and you're likely an ignorant fuckwit so it's ok to leave our allies to certain slaughter' foreign policy argument.

Trump isnt the first U.S. president to sell out the kurds. Doubt they were too offended or surprised. Already made nice with Assad. Suprised even lara trump makes such a stupid excuse. Kurds have been in the news consistantly since we invaded Iraq.

Sent from my LG-US700 using Tapatalk

[Limey]

Surreal to read trump's boys attacking hunter biden over nepotism. Think trump and biden are both done. Wonder what's coming next.

People who were all over this, criticizing the Bidens for nepotism:

Donald Trump Jr.
Rand Paul
Megan McCain
Ronna Romney McDaniel

[Mr. Appropriate]

People who were all over this, criticizing the Bidens for nepotism:

Donald Trump Jr.
Rand Paul
Megan McCain
Ronna Romney McDaniel

That is a funny fucking list. I guess irony is not a concept taught at elite private schools for especially deserving scions and heirs.

Sent from my LG-US700 using Tapatalk

[Limey]

In other news, there's no truth to the story that Mick Mulvaney's press conference today consisted entirely of him stand at the podium, looking confused, with one hand full of toothpaste and the other holding an empty tube.

[Mr. Appropriate]

In other news, there's no truth to the story that Mick Mulvaney's press conference today consisted entirely of him stand at the podium, looking confused, with one hand full of toothpaste and the other holding an empty tube.

LOL. Which would be less strange than what he actually did.

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[Ty in Tampa]

Limey, I thought you'd appreciate this.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Limey, I thought you'd appreciate this.

Magnificent.

[Limey]

Limey, I thought you'd appreciate this.

"if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump."  That's perfect.

And I love this:  "If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set."  It's a fantastic blend of crudeness and eloquence, which is something I appreciate and strive to achieve.  Swearing can be eloquent when done right.

[Limey]

ICYMI:   Trump had a bad day yesterday.  Bill Taylor testified yesterday that there was not only a quid pro quo with Ukraine, it was the driving, overriding and paramount demand of the Trump administration.  Trump demanded that Zelenskyy get up in front of cameras and announce an investigation into Biden AND the DNC server, and that military aid was being withheld for this and Ukraine knew that. 

This blows up pretty much every talking point, including one post-testimony taking point.  Trump tried to argue today that there could be no shakedown if the other side didn’t know that the aid was being withheld.  Ignoring the fact that this is yet another open confession to this crime, (a) does it really matter if Ukraine didn’t know?   You were still trying to crime them, and (2) they absolutely did know and there are multiple accounts to corroborate this. 

The WH Press Secretary, whoever the fuck that is these days because they’re never seen/heard, tried to paint Taylor as some kind of aggrieved, activist, deep state diplomat.  That’s about as credible as Trump’s tan.  Taylor is a West Poibt graduate and Vietnam vet who was appointed Ambassador to Ukraine by Poppy Bush, had a distinguished career, retired and was later recalled to act as Ambassador to Ukraine again by...checks notes...Donald J. Trump. 

Taylor added more detail around Giuliani’s “irregular” diplomatic channel that involved Rudy, Perry, Volker and Ron Johnson.  Fuck the lot of them.

Speaking of Rudy, his goons are proving to be a rich vein of evidence of illegal money flowing from Putin-connected oligarchs to Rudy himself, Trump’s “America First” PAC (because the irony is strong with them) and various other drooling Trump proctologists such as Kevin McCarthy and Ron deSantis. 

The shitnado of corruption swirling around Giuliani just itself is impressive in is scope, audacity, sloppiness and stupidity. 

[Bench]

Meanwhile, republican members of the house have disrupted the testimony of DOD official Laura Cooper by  storming the secure room in which it is taking place.

Only committee members are authorized to attend the deposition. Some of the unauthorized republicans brought their phones, which aren't allowed in the secure room so now a security sweep needs to be performed before the deposition can be resumed.

House republican classic two-step: (1) impeding investigations (2) endangering national security while doing so.

[Limey]

House republican classic two-step: (1) impeding investigations (2) endangering national security while doing so.

(3) order pizza.  I’m not kidding. 

I’ve seen reports on Twitter that the Sergeant at Arms has been called.  We’ve all seen protestors - even handicapped ones - being dragged from hearings.  How the fuck that hasn’t happened here is a travesty.  It’s a felony to use a cell phone in a SCIF and these dumb fucks are tweeting and ordering pizza. 

[Limey]

Lev Parnas - Rudy’s Goon #1 - appeared in court today.  His lawyer argued executive privilege may apply. 

I.  Shit.  You.  Not. 

[Limey]

In other pseudo-legal news, Trump’s lawyers argued today that Trump could, actually, shoot someone on 5th avenue and there is nobody with jurisdiction over him to bring a charge while he’s in office.  Trump’s lawyers also argued that, because Trump did not divest his businesses, this complete immunity applies to them as well.  This case is deffo going to Trump’s hand-picked Supreme Court, when we will find out if there is 5 of them who will, with the stroke of their pens (while wearing a beer can hat) convert this republic into a monarchy. 

To wit, at a rally in PA today, the crowd started chanting “4 more years” and Trump corrected them to chant “16 more years”... which they dutifully did. 

Trump is not going to leave office voluntarily.  He never was.  Putin has been in office for decades, and he is calling the plays for Trump.  They’re going to rig the election in 2020 so that Trump wins, and they’re going to start on removing term limits thereafter.  I am convinced more than ever of two things:  (1) removing Trump before 2020 is the only way to prevent the US from descending into an endless kleptocracy with a succession of Trumps as it’s Dear Leader, and (b) the previous statement is simultaneously hyperbolic, unthinkable and completely true. 

[Waldo]

(3) order pizza.  I’m not kidding. 

I’ve seen reports on Twitter that the Sergeant at Arms has been called.  We’ve all seen protestors - even handicapped ones - being dragged from hearings.  How the fuck that hasn’t happened here is a travesty.  It’s a felony to use a cell phone in a SCIF and these dumb fucks are tweeting and ordering pizza.

So, about that... a Fox News reporter is saying on Twitter that some of the Republicans were hoping to - even ASKING to - get arrested so that they could use it for propaganda.

 https://twitter.com/chadpergram/status/1187173332682182656?s=21

Better move to wait them out.

[HudsonHawk]

So, about that... a Fox News reporter is saying on Twitter that some of the Republicans were hoping to - even ASKING to - get arrested so that they could use it for propaganda.

 https://twitter.com/chadpergram/status/1187173332682182656?s=21

Better move to wait them out.

This is literally the plot to the movie "Airheads". 

[Limey]

This is literally the plot to the movie "Airheads".

Holy shit!

[Navin R Johnson]

Getting arrested to own the libs!

[Waldo]

Getting arrested to own the libs!

And all that just one day after Trump called these sad sacks to the WH and told them to get tougher.

[Limey]

Well Gaetz et al got their wish.  Public hearings to start next month. 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Tom Servo]

The Daily Beast: Judge Napolitano Schools 'Fox & Friends' on Impeachment.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/judge-napolitano-schools-fox-and-friends-on-impeachment-adam-schiff-just-following-the-rules-written-by-gop?source=articles&via=rss

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[Limey]

It’s been a bad week.  Everything from the absurd, like human frat paddle Matt Gaetz leading his mob to intimidate a witness, to the tragedy of the death of Elijah Cummins.  In between, we found out that the DOJ is working on its own soviet-style purge, and we’re sending more forces to Syria to protect Assad’s oil.  And then there’s the Astros...

So, it being Friday, here’s something to give you a smile:

Rudy Giuliani butt-dials NBC reporter, heard discussing need for cash and trashing Bidens

[Limey]

They didn’t take Baron to the World Series?

[Limey]

They just showed Trump on the big board at the Nationals.  He was booed widely and loudly, and then the spontaneous chant of “Lock him up!”   

The cut away to some military types, and the crowd reverted to cheering. 

[jbm]

Was Gaetz on his knees during the shot?

[Limey]

Was Gaetz on his knees during the shot?

You could see the top of his head. 

[austro]

I noticed that the "Veterans for Impeachment" guys behind home plate got removed pretty quickly.

[BUWebguy]

I noticed that the "Veterans for Impeachment" guys behind home plate got removed pretty quickly.

The guy wearing the MAGA hat behind home plate was there the whole night.

[Limey]

The guy wearing the MAGA hat behind home plate was there the whole night.

Kinda like how the media shrugs at the “Lock her up!” but were clutching their pearls at the “Lock him up!” chants last night. 

[Knoxbanedoodle]

The guy wearing the MAGA hat behind home plate was there the whole night.

That guy and his dad are there for every game. Just unbelievably impassive frog-faced old dudes. That's the first time I'd ever seen him in the MAGA hat. I imagine it wasn't a coincidence.

[chuck]

That guy and his dad are there for every game. Just unbelievably impassive frog-faced old dudes. That's the first time I'd ever seen him in the MAGA hat. I imagine it wasn't a coincidence.

I believe they are brothers. Henry and Murray Itkin. Charming pair.

[MusicMan]

I believe they are brothers. Henry and Murray Itkin. Charming pair.

Sell, Mortimer, sell!


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[Limey]

Today, decorated 20-year combat veteran, Purple Heart recipient and - according to Fox News - deep state Soviet sleeper double-agent, Lt. Col.  Alexander Vindman, will testify that he was on the July call between Trump and Zelenskiy and that the shakedown happened exactly as Taylor et al have testified.   Poof goes the hearsay defense. 

Coincidentally, Amb. Sondland has reversed his testimony and said of Taylor’s recounting... “yeah, what he said!”

Speaking of hearsay defenses, is there now anyone on the call not called “Trump” who disputes the testimony of Taylor, Yovanovitch, Hill, Sondland and now Vindman?  When Democrats seat each if these people in front of Congress and the TV cameras - one after the other to corroborate each other’s testimony - it’s going to be a “missing tapes” moment. 

[Navin R Johnson]

The Trumpist have taken cult worship to a new level.  Creepy.

[Limey]

The Trumpist have taken cult worship to a new level.  Creepy.

Two days ago they were attacking critics of Tulsi Gabbard because it’s disrespectful to her military service.  Yesterday they were attacking Nats fans for booing Trump because it’s disrespectful.  Last night...Vindman’s a traitor. 

[austro]

Two days ago they were attacking critics of Tulsi Gabbard because it’s disrespectful to her military service.  Yesterday they were attacking Nats fans for booing Trump because it’s disrespectful.  Last night...Vindman’s a traitor. 

Well, they're half right: there was a traitor on that call.

[Limey]

Tim Morrison resigned today ahead of testimony tomorrow.  John Bolton’s deputy - Kupperman - has asked a court to weigh in on whether the administration can block him from testifying.  Oh, and John Bolton himself is slated to testify next Wednesday. 

The wall has broken and the undead are pouring through the hole like it’s World War Z. 

[Limey]

Devin Fucking Nunes has outed the whistleblower.

There has to be some repercussions, right?

[austro]

Devin Fucking Nunes has outed the whistleblower.

There has to be some repercussions, right?

Not until there's a change in the executive branch.

[jbm]

Where’d you hear this?

And, of course there won’t be repercussions.

[chuck]

The dude is apparently a Democrat which naturally means that extorting an ally and demanding that they make up baseless nonsense out of whole cloth as domestic political assistance is actually perfectly OK. In fact, it's perfect.

[Limey]

Where’d you hear this?

And, of course there won’t be repercussions.

All over twitter.

[Limey]

Impeachment procedure vote passes.  196 Republicans voted against the thing they have been screaming for all over the TV for the last few weeks.

So now:
- public hearings can commence
- deposition transcripts can be released
- subpoena refusal just got much, much harder to do
- Devin Nunes is in charge of Trump’s defense in the House

[Tom Servo]

Rudy Giuliani needed Apple genius help to unlock his iPhone after being named Trump cybersecurity adviser

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rudy-giuliani-needed-apple-genius-help-unlock-his-iphone-after-n1074241

[Limey]

Trump’s vagina was still full of sand from being booed by the Nationals crowd last week, so his nannies decided to get him back out there to show that he can get some love from a non-rally crowd.  They tried to think of the most Trump-friendly crowd they could, and came up with UFC.  Well guess what?  Booed by that crowd too. 

What’s left?  NASCAR?  A monster truck rally?

I don’t think he realizes that this is the rest of his life. 

[Limey]

Rudy Giuliani needed Apple genius help to unlock his iPhone after being named Trump cybersecurity adviser

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rudy-giuliani-needed-apple-genius-help-unlock-his-iphone-after-n1074241

He defended himself on Twitter saying that the FBI needed Apple’s help to get phones open.  Don’t worry, the rank stupidity of that comment was pointed out to him (the FBI was trying to open other people’s phones, not their own).   

[Limey]

Bad day for Trump today.  A federal appeals court ruled that his bank has to turn over 8 years of tax returns and the House Dems started releasing the deposition transcripts from testimony by witnesses in their impeachment hearings.

I haven’t seen too many reports on the latter - looks like just more color to the story.  Such as Sondland telling Yovanovitch that she should tweet out support for the president to keep here job - he actually told her to “go big or go home”. 

Trump’s lawyers plan to take the tax returns all the way to SCOTUS, where all eyes will be on John Roberts.  Will he allow his court to appoint a King?

[Limey]

Trump did get some non-horrible polling news today: he has narrow leads over most Dem candidates in the 6 close states he won in 2016. 

[HudsonHawk]

Bad day for Trump today.  A federal appeals court ruled that his bank has to turn over 8 years of tax returns and the House Dems started releasing the deposition transcripts from testimony by witnesses in their impeachment hearings.

I haven’t seen too many reports on the latter - looks like just more color to the story.  Such as Sondland telling Yovanovitch that she should tweet out support for the president to keep here job - he actually told her to “go big or go home”. 

Trump’s lawyers plan to take the tax returns all the way to SCOTUS, where all eyes will be on John Roberts.  Will he allow his court to appoint a King?

Trump is not turning over his tax returns.  Period.  The SCOTUS can say anything they want, he will tell them to shove it up their collective arse, and that will be the end of that.

[Limey]

Trump is not turning over his tax returns.  Period.  The SCOTUS can say anything they want, he will tell them to shove it up their collective arse, and that will be the end of that.

They’re not getting them from Trump directly, they’re getting them from his accountant.  Unless that accountant has fewer clients than Michael Cohen, they’re not going to risk an existential punishment to protect Individual-1’s tax returns. 

[Limey]

Lev Parnas appears to have flipped on Rudy, or is trying the lever a pardon out of Trump.  Or both.  I’m leaning both. 

[HudsonHawk]

They’re not getting them from Trump directly, they’re getting them from his accountant.  Unless that accountant has fewer clients than Michael Cohen, they’re not going to risk an existential punishment to protect Individual-1’s tax returns.

Punishment by whom?  Federal law enforcement, which is commanded by...let me check...Donald J. Trump?

[Limey]

To much going on, so...  *** Floating dumpster fire gif ***

[Limey]

So the impeachment testimony is very interesting, and telling.  On the one side, you have a steady stream of Trump administration officials who all have the same narrative - that Trump used the withholding of military aid and a White House meeting to pressure the new President of Ukraine to announce an investigation into "the Bidens".  On the other side, you have people who don't want Trump to get removed from office - including Trump - so they are trying to stop that from happening.  The problem is, the latter group has absolutely nothing to argue.

Now I won't get into the detail of the testimony here; there are plenty of other places to look for that.  What's interesting to me is the "defense" of Trump is non-existent.  It's been a couple of stunts - one of which has backfired spectacularly - and waffle that there can't be anything here because we have had no first hand testimony.  That latter argument is so pathetic that it's embarrassing, and this is for two reasons:

a)  Many of the first-person witnesses have been asked or subpoenaed to testify, and have been blocked from doing so by the White House.  This includes specifically Bolton, Pompeo, Giuliani and Mulvaney, the last of whom can also testify to the withholding (or not) or the military aid because he's the head of OMB who is in control of such things.  And

ii)  There will be first-person testimony next week in the form of Vindman and, more significantly, Sondland.

The "hearsay" defense will evaporate next week and they'll be left with stunts and procedural bitching.  Sondland is about as Trumpy as you can get and, if he corroborates the mountain of evidence pointing in the same direction, then that should close this case from a fact perspective.  What will be left is a test for the individual Republicans in the Senate; will they adhere to their oath to uphold the constitution or will they go down in history as endorsing a monarchical presidency?

What's really fascinating is that this test will fall on the narrow shoulders of Senate Republicans just as a whole heap of bad news about Trump's political value hitting like a shitnami.  To wit:

1)  Trump campaigned hard for Gov. Matt Bevin in Kentucky which Trump won by 30 points - Bevin lost;
2)  Trump campaigned hard for Eddie Rispone in Louisiana, which Trump won by 20 points - Rispone lost
3)  Republicans got moved into political irrelevancy in Virginia
4)  Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY) - who tried to speak out of turn at the hearings to create a viral moment - was successful in a way.  Her opponent went from 5,000 Twitter followers to 230,000 and has raised nearly $1 million since Stefanik's stunt.

Trump is becoming politically toxic.  The steady stream of testimony against him; his ongoing losing streak in the courts that seems will lead eventually to all kinds of damning personal and political documentation coming out; no wall; no coal jobs; the carnage of his trade wars.  Even Fox News cannot hold the line 24/7, and is letting truth seep into their coverage.  All of it will factor into the decision of Senate Republicans when this case comes before them.

Trump's in bad shape now, and it's only going to get worse for him.

[jbm]

I’m fully expecting an acquittal in the Senate with some Republicans joining the Dems, but the good thing about the public hearing is that almost everyone listening will know that what he did was dead wrong.  They’ll also know that if Obama or Clinton had done that, they’d have lost their job for sure. So, it will be basically be distilled down to “We’ll never turn on our criminal.”

That’s fine and all, but that cynicism and criminal abatement comes with a cost.  May be naive, but that’s my hope.

[austro]

I’m fully expecting an acquittal in the Senate with some Republicans joining the Dems, but the good thing about the public hearing is that almost everyone listening will know that what he did was dead wrong.  They’ll also know that if Obama or Clinton had done that, they’d have lost their job for sure. So, it will be basically be distilled down to “We’ll never turn on our criminal.”

That’s fine and all, but that cynicism and criminal abatement comes with a cost.  May be naive, but that’s my hope.

I think the Dems are relying on that. I think they believe that actually removing Trump would set off a reaction that would cost them (and us), and they're counting on the Senate not to impeach (if they even send charges up to the Senate). But by going through all of this, they're going to get loads of Trump's ugly shit out in the open in time for the election, and they'll be able bang on it again and again through the entire campaign. And Republicans will have to decide, late in the game, whether Trump is too toxic and has to be replaced by somebody else.

[Limey]

Hilarious side note:

Dan Crenshaw tweeted in support of Elise Stefanik - saying that Democrats are scared of her - which resulted in his tweet blowing up with people reporting donations to his 2020 opponent, Elisa Cardnell.  Elisa, being ever so polite, is thanking everyone on Dan’s thread.  🤣🤣🤣

[Limey]

ABC/Ipsos poll:

70% of Americans believe Trump did something wrong

57% want him impeached

51% want him impeached *and* removed from office

21% made that decision this after last weeks hearings

Those are some terrible numbers for Trump after just one week of public hearings.  Tomorrow, Vindland (in BB all his military finery) and Sondland Wednesday.  This week is likely to be worse.  Given the medical news, it might literally kill him. 

[jbm]

What’s the medical news?

[TeeJoe]

What’s the medical news?

Medically confirmed cheetosis. 

[Waldo]

What’s the medical news?

He made an unscheduled trip (not on public or White House internal itineraries) to Walter Reed on Saturday for some sort of medical procedure.  They're saying that he's "starting his annual physical" or some shit.  So without further details, and given previous credibility issues, we're left to wonder if they're covering up something.

[Bench]

Sondland just torched the entire administration.

[MRaup]

Sondland just torched the entire administration.

[Trump probably] Never heard of him. [/Trump probably]

[Bench]

One of the many remarkable things about Sondland's testimony is that Trump wanted the Ukrainian president to announce the investigations, but didn't really care if the investigations actually commenced. The notion that Trump of all people gave a rat's ass about addressing corruption in Ukraine was always laughable, but this testimony establishes corrupt intent pretty clearly.

[Bench]

[Trump probably] Never heard of him. [/Trump probably]

Trump actually just a few minutes ago: “I don’t know him very well. I have not spoken to him much. This is not a man I know well. He seems like a nice guy though.”

[MRaup]

Trump actually just a few minutes ago: “I don’t know him very well. I have not spoken to him much. This is not a man I know well. He seems like a nice guy though.”

I was only slightly being tongue in cheek.

[Bench]

I was only slightly being tongue in cheek.

The man is a parody of a self-parody.

[MRaup]

https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1197184057249062915?s=21&fbclid=IwAR13GPGl5fZiVgtjktySl4Ozs73Dlwcz2g8uCX82hR7wV1z24H7iFROvM8A

That is the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen.

[Ty in Tampa]

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1197205929411928064

[Bench]

https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1197184057249062915?s=21&fbclid=IwAR13GPGl5fZiVgtjktySl4Ozs73Dlwcz2g8uCX82hR7wV1z24H7iFROvM8A

That is the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen.

I keep waiting for one with the curb your enthusiasm theme.

[Waldo]

I keep waiting for one with the curb your enthusiasm theme.

In the same thread: https://twitter.com/ellievhall/status/1197195784422338561

[Bench]

In the same thread: https://twitter.com/ellievhall/status/1197195784422338561

Just as good as I hoped.

[jbm]

One of the many remarkable things about Sondland's testimony is that Trump wanted the Ukrainian president to announce the investigations, but didn't really care if the investigations actually commenced. The notion that Trump of all people gave a rat's ass about addressing corruption in Ukraine was always laughable, but this testimony establishes corrupt intent pretty clearly.

Yeah, I didn’t see much of today’s stuff other than Schiff and Goldman. They should have jumped on this more, as it clearly illustrates Trump’s priority, as you’ve pointed out.

[jbm]

Also, it has to sting the Republicans that Schiff gets to rip everyone a new one to conclude every day. Elections have consequences.

[Bench]

Also, it has to sting the Republicans that Schiff gets to rip everyone a new one to conclude every day. Elections have consequences.

These hearings wouldn't even be happening if the Democrats didn't take the house.

[MusicMan]

These hearings wouldn't even be happening if the Democrats didn't take the house.

They’d be investigating Hunter Biden.

Oh wait, they had control of both houses in 2016 and didn’t do jack shit about Hunter Biden, which is how you know this is a 100% smear campaign against Joe.


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[austro]

Oh wait, they had control of both houses in 2016 and didn’t do jack shit about Hunter Biden, which is how you know this is a 100% smear campaign against Joe.

They were busy. You think the greatest healthcare bill in the world was going to write itself?

[Ty in Tampa]

Rocket To Russia

[Limey]

Rocket To Russia

Covered by The Smiths

[Limey]

These hearings wouldn't even be happening if the Democrats didn't take the house.

Correct.  Yet, even in the current timeline, none of this would be happening unless the whistleblower had blown the whistle.  Without that, even with Dems in control of the House, Zelenskiy would've made the announcement Trump demanded which would have meant that Biden's corruption and the FACT that it was Ukraine - not Russia - who hacked the 2016 election would be screeched on an endless loop, propelling Trump to his second term. 

Also, Manafort, Stone, Cohen (maybe), Gates et al all get pardoned because it wasn't Russia so they can't be guilty.  I mean, Trump may still get re-elected and/or all those crooks may get pardoned - but now we have a chance to go the other way.  Without the whistleblower, we'd be living that Amazon Prime alternative history for the rest of our miserable, Russian-speaking lives.

[Limey]

Also, it has to sting the Republicans that Schiff gets to rip everyone a new one to conclude every day. Elections have consequences.

How Schiff hasn't gone flying over the desk at Nunes and Jordan multiple times these last two weeks is beyond me.  I'd need a new gavel every day because a team of surgeons are trying to retrieve yesterday's.