Author Topic: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime  (Read 570447 times)

Jacksonian

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #500 on: May 17, 2017, 06:10:58 pm »
Former FBI director Robert Mueller appointed as special prosecutor to lead Trump-Russia probe.

The appointment gives Mueller, who led the FBI through the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and served under presidential administrations of both parties, sweeping powers to investigate whether Trump campaign associates colluded with the Kremlin to influence the outcome in his behalf, as well as the authority to prosecute any crimes uncovered during the probe. The broad mandate, beyond any specific Trump-Russia connection, also covers “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.”

I read that last sentence to mean that if he gets even the slightest whiff of anything on Hillary, the DNC, or Seth Rich he's to go after it.
Goin' for a bus ride.

Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #501 on: May 17, 2017, 06:36:20 pm »
Tumescent pygophile.

They call me Rumptrump man
'Cause that's my name
I'm a butt connoisseur and I have no shame
I rate 'em on size and shape and such
But the final test is the test of touch
I'm a true blue pro no average joe
I keep my eyes open everywhere I go
So if you're talkin' 'bout chicks and what they got down below
Just ask 'ole Trump 'cause I'm in the know

When butts are headed in my direction
I slip around back for a closer inspection
I size them all up with no sign of detection
And I swoop on in and I make a selection
Some big some small some ain't quite round
Some as big as me nearly pound for pound
Some smooth as silk with no sign of wear
And some got pimples and some got hair

Let me tell you 'bout my trip to the south of France
The women down there they never wear pants
By hook by crook or happenstance
I'll be headed back just give me half a chance
When I'm lying on the beach I couldn't help but stare
At all the merchandise the girls had laid bare
Lying on my front so no one could see
Those bare bottom bitches put a boner on me
Everyone's talking, few of them know
The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
Truth isn't easy, the easy part's shit

Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #502 on: May 18, 2017, 09:22:16 am »
The 25th amendment requires Pence, a majority of the cabinet and 290 congressmen (which is 97 Republicans plus all 193 Democrats) to all declare Trump "incapacitated."  Not only is that never going to happen, it probably shouldn't happen absent an actual physical incapacity. It's basically a paper coup.

I was just saying it's more likely than a Republican congress impeaching him.

I share your skepticism, but I wouldn't say "never." And while I agree in principle that it shouldn't be used under circumstances approaching normal, these aren't those circumstances. How much more incompetent flailing about will it take before the president is broadly and legitimately viewed as a clear and present danger to the country and the world?

BudGirl

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #503 on: May 18, 2017, 09:37:58 am »
I was just saying it's more likely than a Republican congress impeaching him.

I share your skepticism, but I wouldn't say "never." And while I agree in principle that it shouldn't be used under circumstances approaching normal, these aren't those circumstances. How much more incompetent flailing about will it take before the president is broadly and legitimately viewed as a clear and present danger to the country and the world?

You all really need to understand there are people in this country that do not view him as a clear and present danger.  Those people voted him into the office.  Seriously, remember that.  I honestly do not know what it will take for them to believe the truth because they now think everything is fake news.  It's a pretty messed up world.

Case in point, I know someone that posted crap about there being an abortion performed in the White House under the Obama administration.  I do not for a second believe it to be true.  And if it were true, someone should go to jail because that is a serious violation of HIPAA laws.  These people will believe anything and everything they are hearing that is negative about the Clintons, Obamas, and Democrats in general.  It is insane. 
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #504 on: May 18, 2017, 09:42:56 am »
That is the saddest thing, these morons decrying FAKE NEWS, live, eat and breath a constant stream of actual fake news.  See the latest with the Seth Rich BS.   People realized about 20 years ago you could get really rich pushing boogeyman stories.
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #505 on: May 18, 2017, 09:50:02 am »
You all really need to understand there are people in this country that do not view him as a clear and present danger.  Those people voted him into the office.  Seriously, remember that.  I honestly do not know what it will take for them to believe the truth because they now think everything is fake news.  It's a pretty messed up world.

Case in point, I know someone that posted crap about there being an abortion performed in the White House under the Obama administration.  I do not for a second believe it to be true.  And if it were true, someone should go to jail because that is a serious violation of HIPAA laws.  These people will believe anything and everything they are hearing that is negative about the Clintons, Obamas, and Democrats in general.  It is insane.

Oh I have no illusions on that score. I'm not talking about his electorate. I'm talking about the Washington GOP.

They'll face a choice soon where they have to either stay on the scandal treadmill, not accomplishing anything their donor class wants them to accomplish before quite probably losing their advantage in the midterms, or exit Trump stage right and at least get something done first.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #506 on: May 18, 2017, 10:04:28 am »
That is the saddest thing, these morons decrying FAKE NEWS, live, eat and breath a constant stream of actual fake news.  See the latest with the Seth Rich BS.
I've leaned on this observation in trying to decode trump or at least figure out what the truth is: focus on what he accuses other of as that is what he is likely guilty of.

As to Budgirl's observation, I am more optimistic.  I thankfully don't know a lot of folks who peddle shit stories, and if they do, it is only to get a rise from me.  Most of the support I know of Trump is about an inch deep.  These people will throw his election and his clownshit in my face, but they don't actually care, or identify with him.  They didn't put signs in their yards, or bumper stickers on their cars.  Below the surface, they know he is a turd and they won't squawk too much when he is finally put down.

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #507 on: May 18, 2017, 10:52:43 am »
You all really need to understand there are people in this country that do not view him as a clear and present danger.  Those people voted him into the office.  Seriously, remember that.  I honestly do not know what it will take for them to believe the truth because they now think everything is fake news.  It's a pretty messed up world.

Case in point, I know someone that posted crap about there being an abortion performed in the White House under the Obama administration.  I do not for a second believe it to be true.  And if it were true, someone should go to jail because that is a serious violation of HIPAA laws.  These people will believe anything and everything they are hearing that is negative about the Clintons, Obamas, and Democrats in general.  It is insane.

Two words:  Pizza Gate

The looney right - including Michael Flynn and his son - pushed this insane theory that Hillary was connected to a child sex ring that operated out of a pizza joint in NYC.  People believed it, as ridiculous as it may sound.  They believed it to the point that a man invaded that pizza joint and shot up the place demanding answers and trying to free the child sex slaves being held in the back.

It's funny until someone gets shot.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #508 on: May 18, 2017, 10:58:01 am »
Yesterday Trump gave a commencement speech that was all about him.  Also,  it was reported that Trump World knew that Flynn was under investigation before he was nominated to the NSA position.  Also, we found out that the Trump campaign had at least 18 separate communications with Russian officials during the campaign.  And we found out that the FBI has appointed former director Mueller to oversee the Trump investigation prompting the orange one to have a hissy fit on Twitter.

Yesterday.
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #509 on: May 18, 2017, 11:04:46 am »
Yesterday Trump gave a commencement speech that was all about him.

It wasn't mostly about him. I watched most of it, waiting for the other shoe to drop, but he kept to the script until I guess the very end. Still, there's no need to exaggerate. He's pretty much got that market cornered.

MusicMan

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #510 on: May 19, 2017, 06:48:47 pm »
Action: Trump tweets that Comey better hope there are no tapes
Reaction: Comey leaks memo to Times

Action: Trump's "nut job" story confirmed by WH
Reaction: Comey agrees to testify in open session

Comey is playing chess. Trump is sticking the checkers pieces up his nose.


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chuck

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #511 on: May 19, 2017, 08:31:38 pm »
Trump is the United States' Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, an idiot, a laughable lunatic, that sinister, reactionary forces are only all too happy to wind up and let go.

This foreign trip is going to be great. NATO, Israel, Saudi Arabia. The Vatican. What could go wrong?
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austro

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #512 on: May 19, 2017, 08:35:15 pm »
This foreign trip is going to be great. NATO, Israel, Saudi Arabia. The Vatican. What could go wrong?

I was talking about this with my wife. I wonder if they're going to let him appear in any situations where he might have to answer questions extemporaneously. That could be extremely amusing.
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Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #513 on: May 19, 2017, 09:39:19 pm »
This foreign trip is going to be great. NATO, Israel, Saudi Arabia. The Vatican. What could go wrong?

They could name Jared as a person of interest in the criminal,inal investigation into Russian election hacking?

Oh wait, that already happened.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #514 on: May 19, 2017, 09:40:38 pm »
I was talking about this with my wife. I wonder if they're going to let him appear in any situations where he might have to answer questions extemporaneously. That could be extremely amusing.

The other countries have already taken steps to keep presentations short and use lots of pictures.  I am not joking.
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austro

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #515 on: May 19, 2017, 10:00:39 pm »
The other countries have already taken steps to keep presentations short and use lots of pictures.  I am not joking.

Oh, I'm aware of that (and aware of how embarrassing it is for our country).  But I'm still hoping for some Q&A sessions.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

Navin R Johnson

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #516 on: May 20, 2017, 11:03:39 pm »
Mr Bad Ass USA USA USA. Refuses to say radical Islam while in Saudi, and his wife doesn't wear a scarf.  My god foxnews and the other idiots who support this oaf must be pissed......nope. Pathetic.
There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

MusicMan

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #517 on: May 22, 2017, 11:53:34 am »
President Trump today, to the Israeli press, made clear that "I never said Israel" in his meeting with the Russians.

So the President denied something that nobody said he had done, and in doing so confirmed the source of the classified information that he disclosed.

Just unreal.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Navin R Johnson

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #518 on: May 22, 2017, 12:22:24 pm »
Not really, he is an idiot.
There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #519 on: May 23, 2017, 10:04:37 am »
Watergate played out over a long time because there was no "smoking gun" to show that Nixon himself was in on the cover up.  That was until the White House tapes were finally coughed up and there he was, Nixon instructing HR Halderman to tell the CIA to get the FBI to back off the Watergate investigation.  As well as being a smoking gun, it was the straw that broke the back of Republican support for Nixon, and he resigned days later.

So now strong reporting claims that Trump asked the Director of National Intelligence and the Director of the NSA to intervene with the FBI to shut down the investigation into Mike "5th Amendment" Flynn.

Seriously, this is one of the only scandals in Washington not to get a "...gate" nickname, and it's basically a shitty remake of the original.  The Nixon era Republicans were right on top of a mid-term election, which may have stiffened their spines, whereas this generation may not yet be feeling the pressure of impending unemployment.  But we have an exact precedent here, so the ending is known, just not the timeline.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #520 on: May 23, 2017, 10:15:18 am »
Watergate played out over a long time because there was no "smoking gun" to show that Nixon himself was in on the cover up.  That was until the White House tapes were finally coughed up and there he was, Nixon instructing HR Halderman to tell the CIA to get the FBI to back off the Watergate investigation.  As well as being a smoking gun, it was the straw that broke the back of Republican support for Nixon, and he resigned days later.

So now strong reporting claims that Trump asked the Director of National Intelligence and the Director of the NSA to intervene with the FBI to shut down the investigation into Mike "5th Amendment" Flynn.

Seriously, this is one of the only scandals in Washington not to get a "...gate" nickname, and it's basically a shitty remake of the original.  The Nixon era Republicans were right on top of a mid-term election, which may have stiffened their spines, whereas this generation may not yet be feeling the pressure of impending unemployment.  But we have an exact precedent here, so the ending is known, just not the timeline.

Trump has already stipulated to firing Comey to stop the investigation.  He gave the smoking gun directly to Lester Holt. 

Obviously admitting to an established "high crime and misdemeanor" is not enough for current republicans to suddenly develop backbone or principle.  It's going to have to get a lot worse, and fortunately I think we can count on Trump and his legion of buffoons to continue to stumble across many more legal lines.  The Ryans and McConnells and McCarthys and Rubios deserve to be dragged down with him. 
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MusicMan

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #521 on: May 23, 2017, 10:53:22 am »
Seriously, this is one of the only scandals in Washington not to get a "...gate" nickname, and it's basically a shitty remake of the original. 

I'm hoping future scandals are all (subject)"-a-Lago"
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #522 on: May 23, 2017, 10:53:26 am »
Trump has already stipulated to firing Comey to stop the investigation.  He gave the smoking gun directly to Lester Holt. 

Obviously admitting to an established "high crime and misdemeanor" is not enough for current republicans to suddenly develop backbone or principle.  It's going to have to get a lot worse, and fortunately I think we can count on Trump and his legion of buffoons to continue to stumble across many more legal lines.  The Ryans and McConnells and McCarthys and Rubios deserve to be dragged down with him.


Yes they do.  Right now, they're letting a criminal enterprise operate out of the Oval Office just to give them enough time to pass deregulation, health reform and tax cuts.  It's about as craven as politics gets, which is pretty damning and - yes - they all deserve to suffer the vicious punishment of a high paid job in the private sector come next November.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #523 on: May 23, 2017, 11:27:42 am »
Oh FFS!

When Obama visited the Israel's Holocaust Memorial in 2013, he wrote a note - as is tradition - in the book of remembrance:

Quote from: Obama
I am grateful to Yad Vashem and all of those responsible for this remarkable institution. At a time of great peril and promise, war and strife, we are blessed to have such a powerful reminder of man’s potential for great evil, but also our own capacity to rise up from the tragedy and remake our world,  Let our children come here, and know their history, so that they can add their voices to proclaim ‘never again.’  And may we remember those who perished, not only as victims, but also as individuals who hoped and loved and dreamed like us, and who have become symbols for the human spirit.  It is humbling and inspiring to visit and remember the visionary who began the remarkable establishment of the State of Israel. May our two countries possess the same vision and will to secure peace and prosperity for future generations.


Trump was there earlier today, and also left a note in the book:

Quote from: Trump
It is a great honor to be here with all of my friends.  So amazing + will never forget!

Basically, Trump just tweeted the Holocaust Memorial in Israel.  Yes, it's under 140 characters.  Yes, he was too lazy to spell out "and".
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #524 on: May 23, 2017, 11:34:54 am »
I'm hoping future scandals are all (subject)"-a-Lago"

Oh Lord let this happen.

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #525 on: May 23, 2017, 01:52:42 pm »
I'm hoping future scandals are all (subject)"-a-Lago"

Meanwhile, God is trying to erase that STD factory from His good, green earth.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #526 on: May 23, 2017, 04:25:34 pm »
"I encountered and am aware of information and intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between Russian officials and U.S. persons involved in the Trump campaign."

 - Former CIA Director John Brennan
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

moriartp

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #527 on: May 23, 2017, 04:55:33 pm »
Meanwhile, God is trying to erase that STD factory from His good, green earth.
That strikes me more as the work of The Guy Downstairs trying to claim what's rightfully his.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #528 on: May 24, 2017, 12:09:37 am »
Basically, Trump just tweeted the Holocaust Memorial in Israel.  Yes, it's under 140 characters.  Yes, he was too lazy to spell out "and".

Did he add "have a great summer...Westdale High Football Roolz!"?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #529 on: May 24, 2017, 07:41:25 am »
And now for a different opinion...

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #530 on: May 24, 2017, 07:51:38 am »
Jesus.  Don't you people take responsibility for anything?  This line of crap (yes, I didn't read the whole thing) and that stupid fucking murder story.  When I was a kid, conservatives at least had some balls, now they are emasculated, grievance-filled parodies of what they used to decry. 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #531 on: May 24, 2017, 07:54:32 am »
And now for a different opinion...

Serious question: why would you link to psychotic ramblings that get basic facts wrong?


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Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #532 on: May 24, 2017, 09:54:28 am »
And now for a different opinion...

I don't think paranoid delusional ramblings that have no legitimate basis in fact qualifies as an "opinion."  But thank you for a peek into the window of crazy.
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #533 on: May 24, 2017, 10:09:39 am »
I didn't think he was being serious. I thought it was more of a "and now for a look into the loony-bin" offering.

Bench

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #534 on: May 24, 2017, 10:14:21 am »
I didn't think he was being serious. I thought it was more of a "and now for a look into the loony-bin" offering.

That's how I took it as well.
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #535 on: May 24, 2017, 10:24:33 am »
I knew you guys would zone in on his statement at the beginning of the article.    Facts seem to be hard to come by these days don't they.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #536 on: May 24, 2017, 10:26:19 am »
And now for a different opinion...

This is the problem with much of Trumpville - they're operating under a separate, completely flexible, set of "facts".  This assertion, for example:  "Don’t believe the media narrative from the left that it was an attempt to silence Comey from some investigation into Trump."  No, I don't believe "the left" in the case, I believe Trump, and what he said to Lester Holt on camera and what Trump's White House released that he said to the Russians in the Oval Office.

This is the legacy of Roger Ailes.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #537 on: May 24, 2017, 10:29:13 am »
Facts seem to be hard to come by these days don't they.

Nope.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #538 on: May 24, 2017, 10:30:46 am »
I knew you guys would zone in on his statement at the beginning of the article.    Facts seem to be hard to come by these days don't they.

Facts are only hard to come by if you willfully ignore them, like the idiot that you linked to.  Putting aside the substance, what's the format supposed to be?  "I am heavily medicated and literally beset by fever dreams and don't trust my own thoughts, but allow me to copy and paste an unidentified email full of paranoid ramblings."

A year ago I would have just assumed it was a parody. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #539 on: May 24, 2017, 11:34:14 am »
Back in the world of real news, the Trump budget, released yesterday, relies upon a $2 trillion math/logic error to work.  That's trillion with a "T".  Times two.

This is not normal.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #540 on: May 24, 2017, 11:42:57 am »
Back in the world of real news, the Trump budget, released yesterday, relies upon a $2 trillion math/logic error to work.  That's trillion with a "T".  Times two.

This is not normal.

Arithmetical errors are just different opinions, snowflake. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #541 on: May 24, 2017, 12:06:21 pm »
Back in the world of real news, the Trump budget, released yesterday, relies upon a $2 trillion math/logic error to work.  That's trillion with a "T".  Times two.

This is not normal.

That's bad even by Bobby Jindal's standards.  (Warning: Grover Norquist sighting)

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #542 on: May 24, 2017, 12:34:37 pm »
Arithmetical errors are just different opinions, snowflake.

Alternative math.

I bet Stephen Miller finds a way to pin this on Common Core.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #543 on: May 24, 2017, 03:15:39 pm »
Alternative math.


We can't even make cynical jokes anymore.  Trump Team Stands by Budget’s $2 Trillion Math Error

White House budget director Mick Mulvaney didn't deny the math, saying it was done "on purpose," during a press briefing Tuesday.

"I'm aware of the criticisms and would simply come back and say there's other places where we were probably overly conservative in our accounting," he said. "We stand by the numbers."


Of course, people who use actual math say things like this:

Former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers put it another way, writing in his blog, "It appears to be the most egregious accounting error in a presidential budget in the nearly 40 years I have been tracking them."

I think Summers is being overly generous when he describes it as "an error." 
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #544 on: May 24, 2017, 03:28:07 pm »
I think Summers is being overly generous when he describes it as "an error."


They double-counted $2 trillion to make work numbers already predicated on a pie-in-the-sky 3% growth rate (currently 1.9%) because...underpants?  When this nonsense is pointed out, the response is "The fuck you gonna do about it?!"

This is not normal.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #545 on: May 24, 2017, 03:39:23 pm »
"I am heavily medicated and literally beset by fever dreams and don't trust my own thoughts, but allow me to copy and paste an unidentified email full of paranoid ramblings."

A year ago I would have just assumed it was a parody.

Nowadays it's a successful White House applicant's resume.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #546 on: May 24, 2017, 03:53:08 pm »
And the CBO score is in.  23 million more uninsured, lower premiums for less coverage under AHCA 2.0.  And it manages to basically obliterate pre-existing condition coverage for one-sixth of the population and cause 14 million people to lose Medicaid benefits. 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 03:56:35 pm by Bench »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #547 on: May 24, 2017, 05:10:38 pm »
...and now the Post is reporting that the memo that set Comey in motion to investigate Clinton's emails - purporting to be from Loretta Lynch saying that she's going to gloss over the server thing - was planted by the Russians.  Literally fake news.

Comey's unwitting, "Dudley Do Right" amplification of the email investigation during the election - and then again right on top of it - clearly tipped the balance to Trump.  So, now, when we talk about the Russians "hacking" our election, it's actually the Russians fixing our election.

The Russians won.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #548 on: May 24, 2017, 07:28:20 pm »
And the CBO score is in.  23 million more uninsured, lower premiums for less coverage under AHCA 2.0.  And it manages to basically obliterate pre-existing condition coverage for one-sixth of the population and cause 14 million people to lose Medicaid benefits. 

That'll show those takers.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #549 on: May 24, 2017, 10:37:28 pm »
And the CBO score is in.  23 million more uninsured, lower premiums for less coverage under AHCA 2.0.  And it manages to basically obliterate pre-existing condition coverage for one-sixth of the population and cause 14 million people to lose Medicaid benefits.

Reporter gets beaten up for having the temerity to ask a Republican candidate about the CBO report.

Read the bottom of that Fox News article for how the candidate tries to spin the encounter.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 10:48:40 pm by Nate Colbert »

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #550 on: May 24, 2017, 11:20:14 pm »
Reporter gets beaten up for having the temerity to ask a Republican candidate about the CBO report.

Read the bottom of that Fox News article for how the candidate tries to spin the encounter.

That's just normal, day to day, alternate body slamming. 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #551 on: May 25, 2017, 07:40:38 am »
Throwing a shoe seems tame by comparison.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #552 on: May 25, 2017, 08:33:27 am »
Today's damage report:

Brits refusing to share any more intel on the Manchester bombings with US counterparts because of incessant leaks that hamper the investigation.  Earlier this week it was reported that the Israelis had rewritten the guidelines on what, when and how they share intel with the US after Trump's blabbing to Russians about Israeli intel and then blurting out confirmation of what he did while standing next to Netanyahu.

It has also been confirmed, by the White House, that Trump blabbed to the Prime Minster Rodrigo Duterte of the Philippines (thanks Knox) that he had two nuclear subs off the coast of North Korea.  This was during the same call when he congratulated Duterte on his "handling" of the drug problem in his country (which is to send out death squads to kill suspected dealers).  FWIW, Duterte has also likened himself to Hitler, and boasted of committing killings and rape.  Trump invited him to the White House.

Jeff Sessions joined Mike Flynn and Jared Kushner as having been caught lying (by omission) about contacts with Russian officials on his security clearance application.  Pretty much everyone around Trump has ties to Russia, and pretty much all of them have lied about it.

The Democrats have already flipped two previously safe Republican seats in Congress via special election since Trump's victory in November.  They are likely to flip a third today - Montana's statewide seat - given that the Republican candidate Greg Gianforte was running a little behind in the polls, the election is today and yesterday he physically attacked a journalist and was charged with assault.  The attack was on audio tape and in front of other journalists.  Apropos nothing, Gianforte also has ties to businesses funded by shady Russian financiers.

It's 8:33am CDT.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 09:19:08 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #553 on: May 25, 2017, 09:09:07 am »
What seats have they flipped?

Also Duterte heads up the Philippines, not Indonesia.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #554 on: May 25, 2017, 09:11:08 am »
And the CBO score is in.  23 million more uninsured, lower premiums for less coverage under AHCA 2.0.  And it manages to basically obliterate pre-existing condition coverage for one-sixth of the population and cause 14 million people to lose Medicaid benefits.

The CBO also pointed out that, in states that opt out of pre-existing coverage mandates, the high-risk insurance markets for those otherwise excluded by dint of a pre-existing condition will collapse.  Meanwhile, Trump's dithering on whether to honor the ACA's cost-sharing payments to insurers is already causing enough instability that premiums are expected to rise by 20% next year for this reason alone.

This is how Republicans roll: they campaign on the premise that government doesn't work and, once elected, set about proving themselves right.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #555 on: May 25, 2017, 09:18:16 am »
What seats have they flipped?

Also Duterte heads up the Philippines, not Indonesia.

Thanks for the correction on Duterte.  The seats I was referring to are state seats, not US Congress - including one in New Hampshire.  The Democrats came close to flipping a US Congressional seat in Kansas of all places, and may well pick up the one in Montana today.  There's one coming up in early June in Georgia, where the Democrat is leading in the polls.

While not being pivotal to national governance, the state elections are bellwethers as to rapid deterioration in the Republican brand, even in previously solid red districts.  Trump is bringing balance to politics in the same way that Anakin Skywalker brought balance to the Force - by taking one side so far to the edge that it falls off.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #556 on: May 25, 2017, 09:25:19 am »
What seats have they flipped?

Also Duterte heads up the Philippines, not Indonesia.

I presume Limey is referencing the Democrat candidates winning special elections for state representative seats in a New Hampshire district that had never been won by a Democrat before and a very conservative New York district. 
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #557 on: May 25, 2017, 09:26:58 am »
That's good news about those state seats. I hadn't heard that.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #558 on: May 25, 2017, 09:59:01 am »
Reporter gets beaten up for having the temerity to ask a Republican candidate about the CBO report.

Read the bottom of that Fox News article for how the candidate tries to spin the encounter.

Even more disgusting than the outright falsity of the candidate's statement is that is seeks to excuse the assault because it the victim was "a liberal journalist." 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #559 on: May 25, 2017, 10:03:18 am »
Even more disgusting than the outright falsity of the candidate's statement is that is seeks to excuse the assault because it the victim was "a liberal journalist."

Not sure if it's been mentioned here among the litany of high crimes committed by Trump but, according to the Comey memos (which may well supplant the Watergate tapes in political infamy), Trump asked him to arrest certain journalists.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #560 on: May 25, 2017, 10:15:47 am »
What's nuts is all the people out there still saying, "Well, it's better than the Democrats having power."

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #561 on: May 25, 2017, 10:57:05 am »
Fun  with Photoshop.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #562 on: May 25, 2017, 01:03:12 pm »
What's nuts is all the people out there still saying, "Well, it's better than the Democrats having power."
It's only as nuts as Hillary's campaign was inept. I know it's not popular around here but I still lay a large part of the blame on the Democrats inability to defeat a genuine megalomaniac in the traditionally Democrat strongholds of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. I don't think the Russians made people vote they way they did in those states. Maybe they did in Maine. For sure, Iowa. Which brings us to now.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #563 on: May 25, 2017, 01:05:41 pm »
Fun  with Photoshop.
I like the one I saw with Elvis.
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The rest are pretending, they put on a show
And if there's a message I guess this is it
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #564 on: May 25, 2017, 01:57:18 pm »
It's only as nuts as Hillary's campaign was inept. I know it's not popular around here but I still lay a large part of the blame on the Democrats inability to defeat a genuine megalomaniac in the traditionally Democrat strongholds of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. I don't think the Russians made people vote they way they did in those states. Maybe they did in Maine. For sure, Iowa. Which brings us to now.

The winning margin in those swing states was about 70,000 in total.  Yes, Clinton ran a bad campaign - ignoring those states late on because she thought they were in the bag being a big mistake - but she too had high unfavorable polling numbers.  I heard it described as a contest between two people who could only lose to each other.

I think the Dems were going to push for Clinton no matter what, but if Biden had been the nominee he would've cleaned Trump's clock in those same swing states and thus in the electoral college.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #565 on: May 25, 2017, 02:08:04 pm »
The Muslim ban - remember that?  It just lost again in court - continuing its impressive oh-for-everything streak - when the 4th circuit upheld a Maryland district court ruling that the ban violated the equal protection clause.

The 9th circuit is still chewing on the broader decision that came out of Hawaii that prompted hilariously ignorant comments from AG Sessions that suggested that he didn't know (or didn't care) that Hawaii was a state; wondering out loud why a judge "on an island in the middle of the ocean" had the power to block Federal government.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #566 on: May 25, 2017, 02:52:00 pm »
Reporter gets beaten up for having the temerity to ask a Republican candidate about the CBO report.

Read the bottom of that Fox News article for how the candidate tries to spin the encounter.

Gianforte was charged with misdemeanor assault today.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #567 on: May 25, 2017, 02:52:35 pm »
The Muslim ban - remember that?  It just lost again in court - continuing its impressive oh-for-everything streak - when the 4th circuit upheld a Maryland district court ruling that the ban violated the equal protection clause.

The 9th circuit is still chewing on the broader decision that came out of Hawaii that prompted hilariously ignorant comments from AG Sessions that suggested that he didn't know (or didn't care) that Hawaii was a state; wondering out loud why a judge "on an island in the middle of the ocean" had the power to block Federal government.

The en banc 4th Circuit opinion nicely summarizes the travel ban as "an Executive Order that in text speaks with vague words of national security, but in context drips with religious intolerance, animus, and discrimination."
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #568 on: May 25, 2017, 03:20:09 pm »
Gianforte was charged with misdemeanor assault today.

Republicans have been on the whole "violence is bad, but..." train all day.  There is no "but" here.  Gianforte dragged the guy to the floor and punched him repeatedly - in a normal world he'd have withdrawn his candidacy there and then (or never made it that far in the first place).

Paul Ryan - his usual profile in courage - declined to comment and said it's up to the people of Montana to decide.  WTF?  When pressed, he said that violence is bad and Gianforte should apologise.  What a sad sack of mushy shit.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #569 on: May 25, 2017, 03:27:03 pm »
A Washington Post article entitled "How a Russia-friendly adviser found his way into the Trump campaign" describes how Carter Page became a "foreign policy expert" of the Trump Team.  If you have seen Mr. page interviewed, you realize that he's not the brightest bulb around.  Anyways:

Quote
So when Carter Page, an international businessman with an office near Trump Tower, turned up at campaign headquarters, former officials recall, Trump aides were quick to make him feel welcome.

A top Trump adviser, Sam Clovis, employed what campaign aides now acknowledge was their go-to vetting process — a quick Google search — to check out the newcomer. He seemed to have the right qualifications, according to former campaign officials — head of an energy investment firm, business degree from New York University, doctorate from the University of London.

Page was in. He joined a new Trump campaign national security advisory group, and, in late March 2016, the candidate pointed to Page, among others, as evidence of a foreign policy team with gravitas.

But what the Google search had not shown was that Page had been on the FBI’s radar since at least 2013, when Russian officials allegedly attempted to use him to get information about the energy business.

So, the emerging defense for the Trump campaign is: We are too incompetent to be guilty.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #570 on: May 25, 2017, 03:42:23 pm »
So, the emerging defense for the Trump campaign is: We are too incompetent to be guilty.

The Russian spies who were grooming Page described him as "an idiot".  I have seen him speak; how anyone could come up with any other opinion is beyond me.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #571 on: May 25, 2017, 06:24:29 pm »
What is the basis in modern American conservatism for undermining NATO?  Is it a marriage of isolationism and Trump's weird desire to make Putin happy?  How does subverting the most successful and stabilizing alliance in the modern era serve American interests? 

Putting aside Trump's typical boorishness today (shoving the PM of Montenegro aside to be first in a photo op, awkwardly calling for a moment of silence for the victims of the Manchester attack, calling Germany "evil" or "bad" because of their auto sales, etc...), I just don't understand the policy motivation for insulting our closest allies, falsely accusing them owing us money, and not re-affirming our commitment to the alliance.  It's all so bizarre.   
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #572 on: May 25, 2017, 11:08:57 pm »
What is the basis in modern American conservatism for undermining NATO?  Is it a marriage of isolationism and Trump's weird desire to make Putin happy?  How does subverting the most successful and stabilizing alliance in the modern era serve American interests? 

Putting aside Trump's typical boorishness today (shoving the PM of Montenegro aside to be first in a photo op, awkwardly calling for a moment of silence for the victims of the Manchester attack, calling Germany "evil" or "bad" because of their auto sales, etc...), I just don't understand the policy motivation for insulting our closest allies, falsely accusing them owing us money, and not re-affirming our commitment to the alliance.  It's all so bizarre.   

Ignorance. No knowledge of history. No understanding of economics. Placating to a base that seeks easy answers for complicated issues that have led to feelings of isolation, relative loss of economic standing, and fear.




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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #573 on: May 25, 2017, 11:53:02 pm »
The Democrats have already flipped two previously safe Republican seats in Congress via special election since Trump's victory in November.  They are likely to flip a third today - Montana's statewide seat - given that the Republican candidate Greg Gianforte was running a little behind in the polls, the election is today and yesterday he physically attacked a journalist and was charged with assault.  The attack was on audio tape and in front of other journalists.  Apropos nothing, Gianforte also has ties to businesses funded by shady Russian financiers.

No such luck.  Looks like Gianforte's assault will be rewarded with a trip to Congress.  So either Montana voters didn't care, or they viewed it as a positive.  Of course, 70% of the ballots having already been cast prior to the assault probably had more to do with it. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #574 on: May 26, 2017, 06:41:38 am »
There was a lot at work in MT, but two additional factors: Quist had real vulnerabilities (shady tax history), and Gianforte absolutely crushed him in outside donations.

Dems need to run better candidates, and they need to spend money on them. No more excuses.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #575 on: May 26, 2017, 07:14:09 am »

Gianforte absolutely crushed him


I see what you did there.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #576 on: May 26, 2017, 08:08:22 am »
No such luck.  Looks like Gianforte's assault will be rewarded with a trip to Congress.  So either Montana voters didn't care, or they viewed it as a positive.  Of course, 70% of the ballots having already been cast prior to the assault probably had more to do with it.

The Chairman of the State Republican party had called for the party to oppose mail-in ballots (something done often in Montana) as it increases turnout, which favours Democrats.  The individual counties wanted a mail-in option as it makes elections much cheaper to run (especially somewhere like Montana) and they prevailed.

I will be interested to see the split between the mail-in and election day ballots.  All three major newspapers in the state endorsed Gianforte, but all three rescinded their endorsement on election day after the assault.  It will be truly ironic if his campaign was saved by the mail-in ballots they feared gave their opponent an advantage.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 08:10:57 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #577 on: May 26, 2017, 08:10:14 am »
There was a lot at work in MT, but two additional factors: Quist had real vulnerabilities (shady tax history), and Gianforte absolutely crushed him in outside donations.

Dems need to run better candidates, and they need to spend money on them. No more excuses.

This is true, but it's hard to recruit candidates to run in a race where the opposition has a 20+ point head start.  Also, the outside money came in for Gianforte because he was struggling, it's going to be very tough for the Republicans in 2018 if they have to spend millions just to defend ultra-safe seats.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 08:54:07 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #578 on: May 26, 2017, 09:41:20 am »
This is true, but it's hard to recruit candidates to run in a race where the opposition has a 20+ point head start.  Also, the outside money came in for Gianforte because he was struggling, it's going to be very tough for the Republicans in 2018 if they have to spend millions just to defend ultra-safe seats.

The four special elections for congressional seats this year show an average +16 point trend for the democrats.  They need to keep that trend going in order to take the house next year.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #579 on: May 26, 2017, 09:47:55 am »
The four special elections for congressional seats this year show an average +16 point trend for the democrats.  They need to keep that trend going in order to take the house next year.

Nate Silver has pontificated that the swing to the Democrats seen thus far is what it needs to be to take back the House and Senate.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #580 on: May 26, 2017, 12:04:15 pm »
So, it's been confirmed that the person of interest in the White House is Kushner.  Apparently, he met with Russian officials (which he then later failed to disclose) just before the hacking attack started.  After the election he met with Kislyak (who on Trump's team didn't?) as well as a Russian bank that was/is under US sanctions.  Kushner, Flynn and Sessions all met with Kislyak and others - Flynn known to have specifically discussed sanctions - while campaign aides Paul Manaforte and Roger Stone also had multiple contacts with Russian officials.

As an aside, Flynn is also known to have caused the postponement of an attack on ISIS by the US in concert with Kurdish forces.  The objection to this mission coming from Turkey, for whom - at the time - Flynn was an unregistered foreign agent.

Basically, we're through the smoke and at the fire her people.  During and after the campaign, Trump's people were in contact with Russian officials and those Russians suffering under US sanctions.  Right after the election, Flynn spoke with Kislyak about lifting the sanctions.  There's your motive, means and opportunity.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #581 on: May 26, 2017, 01:44:06 pm »
The problem is that "those for whom this is new information" and "those who would be moved to do something about it" are Venn circles that do not intersect.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #582 on: May 28, 2017, 01:30:10 pm »
Quote from: Angel Merkel
The times in which we can fully count on others are somewhat over, as I have experienced in the past few days.  And that is why I can only say: We Europeans must really take our destiny into our own hands, of course in friendship with the United States, in friendship with Great Britain, with good neighborly relations wherever possible – also with Russia and other countries – but we have to know that we will fight for our future and our fate ourselves as Europeans.

Less than 3 months in, and the United States is no longer a world leader.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #583 on: May 29, 2017, 10:48:37 am »
Less than 3 months in, and the United States is no longer a world leader.

One of the great ironies of the twentieth century is that just one-sixth of the way into the twenty-first century a unified German is the leader of the free world and foremost champion of liberal democracy.  Francis Fukuyama must be so confused. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #584 on: May 29, 2017, 05:27:30 pm »
What is the basis in modern American conservatism for undermining NATO?  Is it a marriage of isolationism and Trump's weird desire to make Putin happy?  How does subverting the most successful and stabilizing alliance in the modern era serve American interests? 

Putting aside Trump's typical boorishness today (shoving the PM of Montenegro aside to be first in a photo op, awkwardly calling for a moment of silence for the victims of the Manchester attack, calling Germany "evil" or "bad" because of their auto sales, etc...), I just don't understand the policy motivation for insulting our closest allies, falsely accusing them owing us money, and not re-affirming our commitment to the alliance.  It's all so bizarre.   

I think you nailed it with your first guess. NATO is his best friend's worst enemy. His "weird" affinity for Russia has been the lone thing he's been consistent about pretty much the whole time.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #585 on: May 29, 2017, 05:35:08 pm »
I think you nailed it with your first guess. NATO is his best friend's worst enemy. His "weird" affinity for Russia has been the lone thing he's been consistent about pretty much the whole time.

I blame it on the Pussy Riot fiasco.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #586 on: May 30, 2017, 08:47:46 am »
I think you nailed it with your first guess. NATO is his best friend's worst enemy. His "weird" affinity for Russia has been the lone thing he's been consistent about pretty much the whole time.

I'm starting to wonder if Russia isn't Trump's ally; he's just the annoying wannabe friend that follows Russia around.

Think about it; we know the election hacking was done initially to leave Clinton so hobbled as a leader that she'd be ineffective in the world, leaving a vacuum for Putin and his oligarchs.  Right up until about 11pm on election night, almost everyone (except Mrs Limey) expected Trump to lose.  All the Russia stuff in his campaign was one way; there was no reciprocal love other than the ongoing hacking which they were doing anyway.

Then Trump wins, and there's still very little by way of overt support to or about Trump from Russia.  Trump's people have been bothering the shit out of Kislyak - because he's the only one here - and a couple of bankers.  And herein lies the rub:  I think that Trump is trying to use the Presidency to alleviate the substantial debt he has in Russia.  He's been loving up to Russia and all of its friends while giving Russia's enemies (NATO) the cold shoulder.  But none of it is eliciting any kind of reaction from Putin.

It's important to remember that - in the bombshell story that Kushner was trying to set up a back channel to the Kremlin through the Russian embassy - Ambassador Kislyak was completely shocked at the request (in what he thought was secure communication - not in a Captain Renault kind of way).

I think Trump wants desperately to be a Putin stooge in return for debt relief (and some more incontinent hookers).  He's got something to sell - America - but right now Russia isn't buying because they don't need to.  If they'd put in a Manchurian Candidate, it's hard to imagine such a person doing such overt damage to the U.S. at home and abroad.  Where he's failing is that Putin doesn't need to do anything for Trump to get what he wants, so Trump keeps giving him free shit trying to win his affection.

This is the ultimate irony.  Trump isn't Putin's lackey, but he really, really wants to be.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #587 on: May 30, 2017, 10:05:17 am »
I think that Trump is trying to use the Presidency to alleviate the substantial debt he has in Russia. 
This could be the ending to this pathetic tale.  His fealty to Russia is undeniable.  The only question is why? 

Possible explanations:
Reset relations as part of some grand global strategy?  Does Trump really strike anyone as able to embrace such a concept, and even if he did, why go to such underhanded means to achieve it?  Just do it out in the open.   This explanation seems badly wanting, to me at least.

As payback for help in the election?  Possible

Cause they have dirt on him?  Possible

To make a buck or cut his debt?  I normally wouldn't even consider this from someone I detested, as it is so despicable.  However, with Trump, I'm really starting to wonder: is he simply selling out America for personal gain.  Even though it seems outrageous and cynical, it also seems to be the most likely reason.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #588 on: May 30, 2017, 10:31:04 am »
To make a buck or cut his debt?  I normally wouldn't even consider this from someone I detested, as it is so despicable.  However, with Trump, I'm really starting to wonder: is he simply selling out America for personal gain.  Even though it seems outrageous and cynical, it also seems to be the most likely reason.

I agree. I think, too, that it's far from unlikely that at some low point during the campaign they decided to throw a Hail Mary with some Ruskie help. What they had to lose they were probably going to lose anyway, and what they had to gain was the White House. There's certainly nothing in Trump's history to suggest he would suddenly exhibit prudence or restraint when the chips were down.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #589 on: May 30, 2017, 11:16:20 am »
I agree. I think, too, that it's far from unlikely that at some low point during the campaign they decided to throw a Hail Mary with some Ruskie help. What they had to lose they were probably going to lose anyway, and what they had to gain was the White House. There's certainly nothing in Trump's history to suggest he would suddenly exhibit prudence or restraint when the chips were down.

His track record in business shows that he's not subtle, strategic or even ethical.  It was the same on the campaign trail and it is the same in office.  We're aghast at the brazen violation of ethical - or even behavioral - standards, but this is how he's been his whole life.

He's also suffered multiple setbacks because he's so bad at what he does; his entire business just prior to being President was licensing the brand name "Trump" (which he has now destroyed) and hosting a reality TV show.  Trump sued a journalist (for $5bn) who suggested that Trump wasn't a billionaire - because he's so leveraged that his net worth was closer to $250mm.  Trump lost because he couldn't show that he was a billionaire.  That ill-conceived lawsuit (by the same lawyer behind the Trump University defense and who he's now retained to defend criminal charges from being in office) also gave us a hilarious but disturbing deposition by Trump in which, for example, he explained how his valuation of his net worth changes based on his current mood.

He is surrounded by chancers and grifters.  But Trump himself is simply a delusional old man (he forgot Justin Trudeau's last name while speaking recently, giving us the "Justin from Canada" meme) with no moral compass (thanks Trump Sr!) who will never understand that he's doing anything wrong.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 11:18:07 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #590 on: May 30, 2017, 01:46:50 pm »
The lawyer who Trump has retained as counsel with regard to the ongoing Trump-Russia investigation, is involved in the Trump-Russia investigation.

Quote from: NBC News
President Donald Trump's personal attorney, Michael Cohen, confirmed to NBC News that he has received requests for information from the Senate and House intelligence committees as part of their probes into Russian interference in the U.S. election.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #591 on: May 30, 2017, 02:04:37 pm »
Quote
Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him.  He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000. He has built great relationships throughout his life and treats everyone with respect. He is brilliant with a great sense of humor … and an amazing ability to make people feel special and aspire to be more than even they thought possible.

What complete tosh.  Oh, but it wasn't about Kim, it's actually White House spokeswoman Hope Hicks, in a press release about Donald Trump.  Then only thing I changed was "President Trump" to "Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un".  Everything else is verbatim.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 03:16:58 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #592 on: May 31, 2017, 10:38:04 am »
According to the Urban Dictionary:
Covfefe - when you try to type "coverage" but your hands are too small to reach the correct keys on your phone.

Oh, and Russia and Paris Climate Accords and communications director and asking world leaders to call your unsecured, ancient Android phone etc. etc., blah blah Wednesday.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #593 on: June 01, 2017, 02:46:48 pm »
So he did it: the US has joined Nicaragua and Syria as the only non-signatories to the Paris Climate Accords.  Despite it being supported by 70% of Americans, including former Exxon CEO and current Secretary of State Rex DrTillerson along with many, many more fossil fuel CEOs.  But not the coal industry or the Koch Brothers, so that's fair then.

Maybe this is what "covfefe" means.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #594 on: June 01, 2017, 07:25:20 pm »
Maybe this is what "covfefe" means.

If covfefe means spite, then, yes. Trump isn't interested in leading. He is incapable of leading since he has no ideas, no principles, no morality, no vision. In short, if there's something Obama did that he can un-do, he will. If he catches wind of something that Obama was (or is) for, he's against it.

I'm not really all that worked up about today's predictable turn of events. I mean, it's horrible and embarrassing and all that, sure. But it's only one more in what will be a long series of these things. Private enterprise and key US states will lead the way towards carbon reduction and the further development of renewable technologies. And he can't fully exit the agreement before he gets bounced the fuck out of there anyway. But what does concern me is what's going to happen as the television inevitably tells him that Obama is getting more and more popular and he is getting less and less. Will he manufacture something terrible with Iran or North Korea? It will be terrifyingly fascinating to watch since the guys who hold the note on Trump are basically fine with the status quo in both places. But he may get to a point where he feels like he has no choice.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #595 on: June 01, 2017, 10:44:51 pm »
Ordinarily I would think it would be fucking stupid to pay attention to anyone that tweets shit in the middle of the night. But he is the president so I get the attraction.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #596 on: June 02, 2017, 08:44:26 am »
Ordinarily I would think it would be fucking stupid to pay attention to anyone that tweets shit in the middle of the night. But he is the president so I get the attraction.

What he says is mostly bullshit that he will contradict soon enough - sometimes within the confines of the same sentence.  I try to follow what he does, not what he says.  But the "covfefe" meme is pretty fucking funny...until Clinton jumped on it and killed it (she tweeted "People in covfefe houses shouldn't throw covfefe"...like on the second day.  That's the best she had?).

So, if you look at what Trump has actually achieved as far as policy...still...it was only the nomination of a Supreme Court Justice (which the Republicans had to blow up Senate rules to ram through) and now this withdrawal from the Paris climate accords.  That's it.  Healthcare reform won't pass the Senate (or if it does their watered down version won't pass the House); his "budget" is DOA; his wall isn't happening.  Everything else has been sound and fury signifying nothing.

Now, he has been able to turn elements of the Federal government into his angry pack dogs, so the DOJ is locking up pot smokers for as long as possible and ICE is deporting all the low hanging fruit they can lay their hands on - all of which is simple cruelty - but all of these things can be undone by a wave of the hand of the person who follows him.  Less so the diplomatic damage he's doing to our world standing - that's going to take some Jedi mind trick shit to sort out.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #597 on: June 02, 2017, 10:41:15 am »
He was elected to represent Pittsburg, not Paris...I kind of like that.

We are and have been the most ecology friendly industrial nation on the planet. This Paris deal was so skewed against the U.S. and frankly we can't afford anymore to be the world's military and ecology policeman and pay for everything. Maybe if we ask others to pay their share on world/planet issues...we can start taking care of and PAYING FOR our domestic issues. (poverty, crime, education, infrastructure...these are expensive issues that take tax dollars).

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #598 on: June 02, 2017, 11:31:51 am »
He was elected to represent Pittsburg, not Paris...I kind of like that.

Enter Pittsburgh's mayor:
Quote
The United States joins Syria, Nicaragua & Russia in deciding not to participate with world's Paris Agreement. It's now up to cities to lead ... As the Mayor of Pittsburgh, I can assure you that we will follow the guidelines of the Paris Agreement for our people, our economy & future.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/1/15726656/pittsburgh-mayor-trump-paris
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #599 on: June 02, 2017, 11:49:24 am »
Pittsburg, not Paris...I kind of like that.

Lot of folks like that. It fits right the fuck on a standard-sized bumper sticker.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #600 on: June 02, 2017, 12:10:55 pm »
He was elected to represent Pittsburg, not Paris...I kind of like that.

We are and have been the most ecology friendly industrial nation on the planet. This Paris deal was so skewed against the U.S. and frankly we can't afford anymore to be the world's military and ecology policeman and pay for everything. Maybe if we ask others to pay their share on world/planet issues...we can start taking care of and PAYING FOR our domestic issues. (poverty, crime, education, infrastructure...these are expensive issues that take tax dollars).

P.S. Fuck the Rangers !

Last year, as has been the trend for many years now, more new jobs were created in "green" energy than exist in total in the coal industry.  Three times as many, in fact.

Climate change accords are not hurting the coal industry; cheaper energy alternatives are.
Climate change accords are not hurting the oil and gas industry; suppressed commodity prices are (and they're still over-producing at a rate that keeps prices down).

Meanwhile, Trump's efforts to drag American energy policy back to the 1970s will mean that China and the EU will steal a march on us in the green technologies that will dominate world demand over our lifetimes.  If he has his way, we'll be trying to sell surreys in the smog outside of Tesla dealerships while coughing up a lung and trying to quell the convulsions with brown water from the tap.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #601 on: June 02, 2017, 02:35:02 pm »
Lot of folks like that. It fits right the fuck on a standard-sized bumper sticker.
What about Paris, Texas; Paris, Tennessee; Paris, Kentucky?  I'm sure they voted Trump.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #602 on: June 02, 2017, 03:40:00 pm »
What about Paris, Texas; Paris, Tennessee; Paris, Kentucky?  I'm sure they voted Trump.

Trump is working on a Lone State solution for Lebanon, TX.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #603 on: June 05, 2017, 10:23:57 am »
So Trump has decided that it's a good idea to reiterate in public that his Muslim ban is a Muslim ban - for which the ACLU and others interested in the pending Federal case have thanked him - while doubling down on his insult of the Mayor of London.  All this while making spectacularly dumb statements about gun regulation (for which he was accused of being "genetically engineered to be stupid"), promising to work on the issue here (before heading off for a weekend of golfing) all the while leaving the Federal agency responsible for seeking out and ending those who plot such terrorist acts - the FBI - leaderless for going on a third week.

As an aside, hurricane season started last week, yet there's no one in charge at either FEMA or NOAA.  Trump has also proposed massive cuts to both agencies.

There are 559 Senate-confirmable positions in the Federal government.  At this point, only 39 have been confirmed, only 63 nominations have been offered by Trump's administration, leaving 442 posts simply in limbo, without even a nominee for consideration.  This is 137 days in, not counting the 75 days Trump had in transition after the election.  I see a lot of contracts where indemnities are given with exceptions for "gross negligence and willful misconduct"; the discussion usually being that GN/WM is such a high bar to prove that it's not worth worrying about.  I think we're seeing, in this administration, what gross negligence and willful misconduct looks like.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 10:25:45 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #604 on: June 05, 2017, 11:23:58 am »
Lot of folks like that. It fits right the fuck on a standard-sized bumper sticker.

Also, it represents a fake symbol that has nothing to do with reality.  Pittsburgh's economy is driven by the medical, education, and tech industries. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #605 on: June 05, 2017, 11:26:42 am »
But what does concern me is what's going to happen as the television inevitably tells him that Obama is getting more and more popular and he is getting less and less. Will he manufacture something terrible with Iran or North Korea? It will be terrifyingly fascinating to watch since the guys who hold the note on Trump are basically fine with the status quo in both places. But he may get to a point where he feels like he has no choice.

Eventually there will be a terrorist attack by ISIS or some similarly motivated group in the US and his reaction will be horrifying. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #606 on: June 05, 2017, 12:04:50 pm »
There are 559 Senate-confirmable positions in the Federal government.  At this point, only 39 have been confirmed, only 63 nominations have been offered by Trump's administration, leaving 442 posts simply in limbo, without even a nominee for consideration.  This is 137 days in, not counting the 75 days Trump had in transition after the election.  I see a lot of contracts where indemnities are given with exceptions for "gross negligence and willful misconduct"; the discussion usually being that GN/WM is such a high bar to prove that it's not worth worrying about.  I think we're seeing, in this administration, what gross negligence and willful misconduct looks like.

By leaving those positions unfilled, couldn't this be viewed as the White House consolidating its power/influence by destabilizing those agencies?  Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but many of the administration's actions thus far (e.g. attempted Muslim ban) don't smack of egregious incompetence to me.  In many ways I think they know exactly what they're doing.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #607 on: June 05, 2017, 12:21:10 pm »
As unfilled positions go, sounds more like the pool of acceptable candidates has totally dwindled.  How many respectable Republicans want to work for him?  Of those, how many will he tolerate?  So, we are left with Republican dregs like the Milwaukee sheriff who are crazy and popular enough to appeal to Trump, but not so popular that they might overshadow him. 

If it is intentional, it will surely backfire.  Using Limey's example, we will have a natural disaster, and the non-government government won't be able to respond, yielding public calls for more government.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #608 on: June 05, 2017, 12:44:37 pm »
By leaving those positions unfilled, couldn't this be viewed as the White House consolidating its power/influence by destabilizing those agencies?

This is precisely what they're doing.

Also, as a point of mild interest given the happenings over the weekend, the ambassadorial post to the United Kingdom is currently unfilled. I'm hearing that it's taking so long because the White House can't decide between Ted Nugent and Kid Rock.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #609 on: June 05, 2017, 01:13:25 pm »
By leaving those positions unfilled, couldn't this be viewed as the White House consolidating its power/influence by destabilizing those agencies?  Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but many of the administration's actions thus far (e.g. attempted Muslim ban) don't smack of egregious incompetence to me.  In many ways I think they know exactly what they're doing.

Most of this administration, especially the Muslim ban, is malevolence tempered by incompetence. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #610 on: June 05, 2017, 01:45:37 pm »
Most of this administration, especially the Muslim ban, is malevolence tempered by incompetence.

Bingo.  They inflict cruelty wherever possible through existing structures (e.g. ICE deporting all the low hanging fruit - ironically leaving no one to pick fruit hanging at any height), but in all other areas their cruelty is aspirational.  In no area are they anything other than cruel.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #611 on: June 05, 2017, 02:04:21 pm »
By leaving those positions unfilled, couldn't this be viewed as the White House consolidating its power/influence by destabilizing those agencies?  Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but many of the administration's actions thus far (e.g. attempted Muslim ban) don't smack of egregious incompetence to me.  In many ways I think they know exactly what they're doing.

Sitting pretty in the middle of Trump's basket of personality disorders is his paranoia.  His inner circle comprises immediate family members and a handful of deplorables who've pledged fealty to him.  Yet, despite such pledges, the non-family members drift in and out of favor with regularity, suggesting that only blood relations and their spouses are truly trusted...and maybe not even the latter.

Example:  his NATO speech was twice appended by McMasters, Mattis and Tillerson to pledge support for Article V, only for Trump to remove such a pledge three times - including the final version which MM&T didn't see.  The alleged grown ups in the room aren't in the room when he makes his final choices.  This is terrifying.

Trump claims that many of the unfilled positions are that way on purpose; claiming that the positions are irrelevant/wasteful.  But many are pivotal, must-fill positions and he cannot find even unsuitable candidates to offer up for his lap-dog Senate to ram through.  Was the barrel scraped dry when he scooped up Betsy Devos?

Word is that he wants to fire Priebus, who would then become Ambassador to Greece, but can't find a replacement.  Various names have been floated for FBI Director, including John Cornyn and Joe Lieberman, only for each to quickly disavow any suggestion that they're interested.  Trump is toxic and, as a result, his administration will continue to spiral out of control and further into delusional, paranoid chaos.

If the Mueller investigation gets to Kushner, I fully expect him to nuke someone.  I am serious.  All he has been able to achieve, which is virtually fuck-all, is what he can achieve by fiat, and that's nominate Gorsuch, cancel the Paris agreement and bomb Iraq Syria.  He can send the nukes flying on his own whim, and has already shown that he'll take action to move Russi-a-lago off the front page.  He will nuke someone; he won't be able to sop himself because it is the ultimate expression of the power he has as President.  There's no way he leaves office without pressing that button.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #612 on: June 05, 2017, 02:08:29 pm »
Luckily he literally can't nuke anyone all by himself. 'Cause, yeah, that would be, in the immortal words of the recently departed Private Hudson, "Game over, man! Game over!"

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #613 on: June 05, 2017, 02:43:05 pm »
 It is like someone's goofy retired uncle, who believes every ridiculous, over the top, forwarded email and kooky Foxnews conspiracy is running the country.   Wait, that is actually what is going on.   Our idiot in charge's world view is formed by Breibart, Fox & Friends and InfoWars.   None of what is happening is the least bit surprising.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #614 on: June 05, 2017, 04:16:44 pm »
If the Mueller investigation gets to Kushner, I fully expect him to nuke someone.  I am serious.

I don't think he cares enough about Kushner (or anyone else) to do anything suicidal should they get taken down. Sadly, the old Nixonian adage 'when the president does it that means it's not illegal' is largely true. So there's not very much that can touch Trump right now other than impeachment, and we all know that this congress isn't going to impeach Trump regardless of what may be found down the line or of what he does in between now and then. And I feel like it is very unlikely that the Democrats recapture the house in 2018.

Which is why previously I mentioned the one and only thing Trump does care about, which is himself and his image. If the television tells Trump that his own popularity is tanking while Obama's is skyrocketing, well, that's when I think you can start worrying about something extreme and irreparable happening.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #615 on: June 05, 2017, 08:09:05 pm »
It is like someone's goofy retired uncle, who believes every ridiculous, over the top, forwarded email and kooky Foxnews conspiracy is running the country.   Wait, that is actually what is going on.   Our idiot in charge's world view is formed by Breibart, Fox & Friends and InfoWars.   None of what is happening is the least bit surprising.

His first tweet about London was a retweet of Drudge.  Think about that.  He has the entire US intel service at his beck and call, and he goes with info from a bullshit website. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #616 on: June 05, 2017, 08:34:24 pm »
Europe finally to start paying their share...the Cold War is over folks. We are a trillion dollars in debt.

America first...about time.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #617 on: June 05, 2017, 09:22:38 pm »
Europe finally to start paying their share...the Cold War is over folks. We are a trillion dollars in debt.

America first...about time.

You understand that they aren't paying us, right?


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #618 on: June 05, 2017, 09:30:56 pm »
Europe finally to start paying their share...the Cold War is over folks. We are a trillion dollars in debt.

America first...about time.

Pay their share for what?  What ledger are you looking at? 

And that "America First" slogan has a very specific history that is being invoked that's not a good thing at all.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #619 on: June 05, 2017, 11:25:00 pm »
Europe finally to start paying their share...the Cold War is over folks. We are a trillion dollars in debt.

America first...about time.

More like Trump first, it is unbelievable that anyone was stupid enough to think it would be any other way. Sad!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #620 on: June 06, 2017, 07:56:36 am »
Paying for what ?

How about the vast majority of NATO...weapons, bases.

Not to mention the thousands of troops...

And yes I know they are not paying us...we are just paying their defense bills.

We went to Eorope and spilled our blood...more than once. And then protected them from the Russian bear. We can't afford it any longer and the threat from the East has deminished with the fall and breakup of the U.S.S.R.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #621 on: June 06, 2017, 09:41:18 am »
Reality Winner.
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The rest are pretending, they put on a show
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #622 on: June 06, 2017, 10:30:41 am »
Paying for what ?

How about the vast majority of NATO...weapons, bases.

Not to mention the thousands of troops...

And yes I know they are not paying us...we are just paying their defense bills.

We went to Eorope and spilled our blood...more than once. And then protected them from the Russian bear. We can't afford it any longer and the threat from the East has deminished with the fall and breakup of the U.S.S.R.

I think you misunderstand.  The point is that they are *not* paying us.  You act as if Trump, in some fit of High Noon-inspired leadership, somehow calmly waltzed into Europe, smacked around Germany and Luxembourg, and took their lunch money.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #623 on: June 06, 2017, 10:40:00 am »
I'd bet 2/3rds of Trump voters would believe that, if they got a forwarded email claiming it happened
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #624 on: June 06, 2017, 10:43:16 am »
And our presence in Europe isn't something they are begging for. A lot of the reasons NATO has lasted so long is that it is in our best interest.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #625 on: June 06, 2017, 11:20:19 am »
And our presence in Europe isn't something they are begging for. A lot of the reasons NATO has lasted so long is that it is in our best interest.

Can't be emphasized enough.  The 'US as victim' narrative is so appealing to Trump voters, but so at odds with reality. 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #626 on: June 06, 2017, 02:44:28 pm »
Paying for what ?

How about the vast majority of NATO...weapons, bases.

Not to mention the thousands of troops...

And yes I know they are not paying us...we are just paying their defense bills.

We went to Eorope and spilled our blood...more than once. And then protected them from the Russian bear. We can't afford it any longer and the threat from the East has deminished with the fall and breakup of the U.S.S.R.

We are paying our own defense bills. None of the criticisms you identified makes any sense or is based in fact, unless your position is that the US spends too much money on defense overall (which I would agree with, but that spending has little to do with NATO). 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #627 on: June 06, 2017, 03:03:09 pm »
We are paying our own defense bills. None of the criticisms you identified makes any sense or is based in fact, unless your position is that the US spends too much money on defense overall (which I would agree with, but that spending has little to do with NATO).

And President Trump's fantasy budget cuts all spending BUT defense, which increases dramatically.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #628 on: June 06, 2017, 03:08:22 pm »
I think you misunderstand.  The point is that they are *not* paying us.  You act as if Trump, in some fit of High Noon-inspired leadership, somehow calmly waltzed into Europe, smacked around Germany and Luxembourg, and took their lunch money.

Not so...but our President let them know that the role of NATO needs to change, and the enormous amount of US tax dollars being expended needs to stop. Of course NATO has been a great help to US foreign policy...and we have treated it as such. But the post cold war world is a different animal. Russia is not the Soviet Union. Germany has been reunified.

Europe needs to take care of it's own house. THE U.S. TREASURY IS BROKE...WE CAN'T AFFORD. We have our own domestic problems to solve and pay for.

We have another seemingly endless war to fight. It's been 16 years since 9/11. Things are not going well in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Yemen...the Taliban has resurged in Afghanistan. Isis is spreading through Europe. We have had to think past our own sovereignty. We have had to empower domestic surveillance,  international police, and intelligence agencies...organizations that our founding fathers told us to be wary of.

Perhaps NATO needs to turn it's attention to this war against ISIS... with all members contributing equally.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 03:14:50 pm by AstroNut »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #629 on: June 06, 2017, 03:17:19 pm »
The US does spend the highest GDP percentage (>3%) while many NATO countries are below the 2% target.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-11

Maybe that's what AstroNut is talking about?  I don't know a lot about the subject, but my reading of the situation is that there is no NATO "fund" that countries pay into, it's just a commitment to spend a certain percentage of their GDP on their own defense.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #630 on: June 06, 2017, 03:39:52 pm »
Not so...but our President let them know

I do not think our President knows anything to let anyone know something.  But,  I like that you have faith in him.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #631 on: June 06, 2017, 03:52:53 pm »
Not so...but our President let them know that the role of NATO needs to change, and the enormous amount of US tax dollars being expended needs to stop. Of course NATO has been a great help to US foreign policy...and we have treated it as such. But the post cold war world is a different animal. Russia is not the Soviet Union. Germany has been reunified.

Europe needs to take care of it's own house. THE U.S. TREASURY IS BROKE...WE CAN'T AFFORD. We have our own domestic problems to solve and pay for.

We have another seemingly endless war to fight. It's been 16 years since 9/11. Things are not going well in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Yemen...the Taliban has resurged in Afghanistan. Isis is spreading through Europe. We have had to think past our own sovereignty. We have had to empower domestic surveillance,  international police, and intelligence agencies...organizations that our founding fathers told us to be wary of.

Perhaps NATO needs to turn it's attention to this war against ISIS... with all members contributing equally.

So you want to cut defense spending. Fair enough. But that has zero to do with the fact that other NATO members aren't going to give us squat.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #632 on: June 06, 2017, 03:59:19 pm »
Isn't Europe our largest trading partner (at least before Brexit and Trump pissing them off)?  Not everyone buys into the idea that Russia has been tamed and is no threat.  I'd be surprised if the Baltics and most of Europe would subscribe to this idea, not to mention Ukraine.  So, if NATO is emasculated and Europe is destabilized, it hurts the American and world economy.  The debate should at least address this fundamental aspect.  Who should pay how much is certainly worthy of debate, but I'm not sure that the idea that the bear has been tamed and we are simply bailing out the sponging Europeans is worthy.  Particularly given recent events.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #633 on: June 07, 2017, 10:30:49 am »
The US does spend the highest GDP percentage (>3%) while many NATO countries are below the 2% target.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-11

Maybe that's what AstroNut is talking about?  I don't know a lot about the subject, but my reading of the situation is that there is no NATO "fund" that countries pay into, it's just a commitment to spend a certain percentage of their GDP on their own defense.

The 2% is a goal everyone agreed to a couple of years ago.  The commitment is mutual defense, which is the cornerstone of the alliance since the 1940s.

In fact, the only time Article 5 (the mutual defense commitment that Trump became the first president not to verbally reaffirm) has been invoked was in response to 9/11.  Our NATO allies supplied air defense over the US and sent troops to Afghanistan (where they still are). 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #634 on: June 07, 2017, 10:35:45 am »
Perhaps NATO needs to turn it's attention to this war against ISIS... with all members contributing equally.

Not really up on current events, are you?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #635 on: June 07, 2017, 05:17:38 pm »
Not so...but our President let them know that the role of NATO needs to change, and the enormous amount of US tax dollars being expended needs to stop.

Let's just make this as black and white as possible:  All members of NATO are paying their share of the joint bills of NATO.  However, each member is required to spend 2% of its GDP on its own military, to support the mutual defense element of the treaty.  BUT, the 2% mark does not have to be reached until 2020 (I think), so no one is currently delinquent on this.

So when Trump says that NATO members are not paying their bills, he is lying.  And when he says that "money is pouring in" to NATO, he is lying.  The money doesn't come in to NATO, it goes to the companies that supply military hardware.  The Federal government won't see a dime of that spending.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #636 on: June 08, 2017, 09:42:47 am »
So, yesterday, Rogers and Coats - the two Trump administration officials who, according to well-sourced press reports, were asked by Trump to pressure Comey into dropping the Russia investigation - flatly refused to answer questions about any such conversation while under oath in front of the Senate Intelligence Committee yesterday.  They were pressed and pressed and pressed by Republicans and Democrats alike, and simply stonewalled.

Let's be clear on this: these two gentlemen are the NSA Director and Director of National Intelligence respectively, so this committee is the one that has oversight of them.  And they weren't just being a bit shifty; in one exchange, Coats was asked for the legal basis upon which he was relying to refuse to answer a direct question, and he said that he was not aware of any.  Essentially, their boss asked them what they've been doing at work, and they said "Nunya!"

One Senator summed it up perfectly, saying that they were working very hard not to answer a yes/no question when a "no" answer would be so easy.  Which means the answer isn't "no".

To put this in perspective, the first article of impeachment against Nixon was the obstruction of justice charge that stemmed from his taped conversation with HR Haldeman in which he discussed the strategy of having the CIA tell the FBI to back off the Watergate investigation.  He never actually did this (that we know of), but planning to do it was enough.  Here, the DNI and NSA Director are both refusing to say that Trump did not have a conversation with them about dropping the Flynn investigation and, meanwhile, as I type, Comey will be reading his statement to the Senate Intelligence Committee - under oath - in which he will state that Trump personally told him to drop the investigation into Mike Flynn.

Nixon was ousted just for musing about doing what Trump appears to have done - ask others to obstruct justice on his behalf - and thereafter he went and did it himself.  This is not comparable to Watergate, it's so far beyond Watergate now it's ridiculous that the Trump administration hasn't already been burned to the ground to prevent further infection.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #637 on: June 08, 2017, 09:51:04 am »
Nixon was ousted just for musing about doing what Trump appears to have done - ask others to obstruct justice on his behalf - and thereafter he went and did it himself.  This is not comparable to Watergate, it's so far beyond Watergate now it's ridiculous that the Trump administration hasn't already been burned to the ground to prevent further infection.

It took a very long time for the Republicans to finally turn on Nixon.  It will take even longer with Trump, if ever at all.  There are simply way more wingnut constituents out there now than there were 43 years ago. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #638 on: June 08, 2017, 09:55:11 am »
It took a very long time for the Republicans to finally turn on Nixon.  It will take even longer with Trump, if ever at all.  There are simply way more wingnut constituents out there now than there were 43 years ago. 

And Nixon wasn't ousted, he quit. It will be extremely difficult to get Trump to do that.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #639 on: June 08, 2017, 10:02:06 am »
And Nixon wasn't ousted, he quit. It will be extremely difficult to get Trump to do that.

Nixon resigned because he was told by leaders from the House and Senate - including Republicans - that he was going to be impeached.  Trump won't quit and this Congress won't impeach, or even threaten to do so...

...until their own political heads are on the chopping block - which is what drove Republicans to turn against Nixon.  They did not want to drag his dead carcass through the upcoming midterms.  Still, the Republicans lost 49 seats in the House and 4 in the Senate that year.  Such a wave would easily flip the House and Senate majorities to the Democrats in 2018, which would put them all in very serious legal peril.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #640 on: June 08, 2017, 10:11:17 am »
The problem is, Trump will go nuclear on the Republicans if they tried to do anything, and his (not insubstantial) group of diehard supporters could destroy the Rs at midterms.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #641 on: June 08, 2017, 11:11:33 am »
Comey: "Lordy, I hope there are tapes."  Classic.

Interestingly, it is the 21st century so "tapes" aren't physical things.  If the recordings were made, and were electronic, and get deleted, then a computer specialist will be able to find a record of the deletions if not recover the files themselves.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #642 on: June 08, 2017, 11:13:02 am »
GOP senators telling Comey that he should have stood up to Trump sooner, and more forcefully, are destroying any remaining sense of irony that was left.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #643 on: June 08, 2017, 11:32:11 am »
GOP senators telling Comey that he should have stood up to Trump sooner, and more forcefully, are destroying any remaining sense of irony that was left.

Not Texas' John Cornyn!  No, he asked about Clinton's emails.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #644 on: June 08, 2017, 11:42:18 am »
Not Texas' John Cornyn!  No, he asked about Clinton's emails.

McCain also discussed the FBI's investigation into "Mr Clinton's" emails, and then referred to his witness as "President Comey".

Also, there are too many states, please eliminate three.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #645 on: June 08, 2017, 11:44:31 am »
McCain was lost.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #646 on: June 08, 2017, 11:49:49 am »
On the other side of the things I thought Comey's slap at Lynch was more than insignificant.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #647 on: June 08, 2017, 11:52:19 am »
Not Texas' John Cornyn!  No, he asked about Clinton's emails.

Headline on foxnews.com right now:

Comey says he considered calling for a special counsel for Clinton server probe
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #648 on: June 08, 2017, 11:53:50 am »
McCain was lost.
I just heard it, but it was sad to hear him that way.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #649 on: June 08, 2017, 11:55:39 am »
He's a straight-shooter. No wonder no one likes him.

It's tragicomic that Bill Clinton's tarmac chat with Lynch probably led to Comey's initial testimony re: the meritless email scandal, which led to his duty to correct, which led to the Anthony Weiner-related bombshell just prior to the election, which led to this disastrous presidency. It took a singularly ugly Rube Goldberg device to get where we are today. 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #650 on: June 08, 2017, 11:55:57 am »
I just heard it, but it was sad to hear him that way.

Agreed.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #651 on: June 08, 2017, 12:06:25 pm »
He's a straight-shooter. No wonder no one likes him.

It's tragicomic that Bill Clinton's tarmac chat with Lynch probably led to Comey's initial testimony re: the meritless email scandal, which led to his duty to correct, which led to the Anthony Weiner-related bombshell just prior to the election, which led to this disastrous presidency. It took a singularly ugly Rube Goldberg device to get where we are today.

It wasn't just the tarmac chat.  She also tried to direct his narrative regarding the server.  Both of which were completely unnecessary.  And there's no probably about his testimony.  He said both of those things were why he came out publicly.  It looks to me like the unnecessary dick-stepping in the previous administration may have directly led to Hillary's loss.  Which then leads to the current dick-stepping in this administration.  But it also makes me think that if Hillary had been elected the same Obama admin dick-steppers would still be there dick-stepping and we'd still be sitting here watching congressional investigations into said dick-stepping.  In other words we had two bad candidates for president.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #652 on: June 08, 2017, 12:16:42 pm »
It wasn't just the tarmac chat.  She also tried to direct his narrative regarding the server.  Both of which were completely unnecessary.  And there's no probably about his testimony.  He said both of those things were why he came out publicly.  It looks to me like the unnecessary dick-stepping in the previous administration may have directly led to Hillary's loss.  Which then leads to the current dick-stepping in this administration.  But it also makes me think that if Hillary had been elected the same Obama admin dick-steppers would still be there dick-stepping and we'd still be sitting here watching congressional investigations into said dick-stepping.  In other words we had two bad candidates for president.

Dick-stepping about having an unsecured email server on which you may have stored two or three confidential emails out of tens of thousands doesn't even come close to the President carrying around an ancient (by technology standards), unsecured Android phone on which he tweets, calls other world leaders and which can have the camera and microphone turned on by a 10-year old (or a Russian or ISIS).  And that's one of the more minor problems with the Trump presidency.

Clinton was a horrible candidate.  But there is no equivalency to what would've been her ongoing email scandal and the multiple scandals, corruption and crimes perpetrated by the Trump administration.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 12:24:03 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #653 on: June 08, 2017, 12:48:56 pm »
But what about all the people she murdered?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #654 on: June 08, 2017, 01:00:18 pm »
Dick-stepping about having an unsecured email server on which you may have stored two or three confidential emails out of tens of thousands doesn't even come close to the President carrying around an ancient (by technology standards), unsecured Android phone on which he tweets, calls other world leaders and which can have the camera and microphone turned on by a 10-year old (or a Russian or ISIS).  And that's one of the more minor problems with the Trump presidency.

Clinton was a horrible candidate.  But there is no equivalency to what would've been her ongoing email scandal and the multiple scandals, corruption and crimes perpetrated by the Trump administration.

Right, but with a Clinton presidency and a GOP house and Senate we would have non-stop investigations and hearings about the White House.  Chaffetz promised as much before the election, only (along with the rest of the GOP congressmen) to suddenly get disinterested in congressional oversight after Trump won.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #655 on: June 08, 2017, 01:05:50 pm »
Dick-stepping about having an unsecured email server on which you may have stored two or three confidential emails out of tens of thousands doesn't even come close to the President carrying around an ancient (by technology standards), unsecured Android phone on which he tweets, calls other world leaders and which can have the camera and microphone turned on by a 10-year old (or a Russian or ISIS).  And that's one of the more minor problems with the Trump presidency.

Clinton was a horrible candidate.  But there is no equivalency to what would've been her ongoing email scandal and the multiple scandals, corruption and crimes perpetrated by the Trump administration.

Step out of your anti-Trump fervor for a moment.  You missed the point.  Bench got part of it.  The other part is Hillary is in part blaming Comey for losing.  The reality is it was Obama's people who screwed her, and she and they didn't even know it. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #656 on: June 08, 2017, 01:30:29 pm »
Right, but with a Clinton presidency and a GOP house and Senate we would have non-stop investigations and hearings about the White House.  Chaffetz promised as much before the election, only (along with the rest of the GOP congressmen) to suddenly get disinterested in congressional oversight after Trump won.

Yes, it would have been a massive distraction and congress would've been completely dysfunctional.  I.e. exactly as it was for the last 6 years of the Obama administration.  The difference being that the topics of the investigations would've been minor, at best, transgressions.  In the meantime, we would have had a boringly competent administration.

With Trump, we have rampant self-dealing, staggering incompetence, security breaches that are on a level wholly more serious than Clinton's server, and the stench of corruption that would make New Jersey wonder what that smell is.  Also, we're now going through a whole series of congressional investigations into Trump, so we got all the congressional-Kabuki down side anyway, to go along with this monkey-shit-fight of an administration.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #657 on: June 08, 2017, 01:40:29 pm »
Having Trump's attorney give a news conference, without taking questions just makes him look guilty.   It would have been better to just have Spicer or Huckabee get up there and bullshit for twenty minutes.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #658 on: June 08, 2017, 01:55:23 pm »
Step out of your anti-Trump fervor for a moment.  You missed the point.  Bench got part of it.  The other part is Hillary is in part blaming Comey for losing.  The reality is it was Obama's people who screwed her, and she and they didn't even know it.

If you want to follow the thread back to the true proximate cause, it was Anthony Weiner's dick pics. 

But it was madness to nominate Clinton when they knew that she was one email revelation away from disaster.  Ironically, it turned out that she was zero email revelations away from disaster, just the word "emails" (along with her 1980s style campaign and lack of charisma) was enough to do her in.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #659 on: June 08, 2017, 01:55:48 pm »
Having Trump's attorney give a news conference, without taking questions just makes him look guilty.   It would have been better to just have Spicer or Huckabee get up there and bullshit for twenty minutes.

That bad, huh?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #660 on: June 08, 2017, 02:09:50 pm »
In my mind, yes.  It never looks good for someone to be represented by their criminal attorney.  Especially an attorney who refuses to take questions, but is comfortable with claiming that the witnesses against his client (Comey) is lying about key facts and has committed a crime by "leaking" conversations with his client.  Spicer and Huckabee are familiar, and the listener can just assume it is more of the comically incompetent administration; instead, it looks like an attorney ginning up arguments for a trial against his client.   

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #661 on: June 08, 2017, 03:34:04 pm »
Comey should have kept his mouth shut concerning the Clinton investigation. His mistake was holding a news conference both exonerating her and then another one to announce the reopening, after the dickwagger's wife's email revelation, a few days before the election. What was that all about...say nothing until indictment. The best thing that has happened to the FBI was him getting the boot.

"He's a nut job"...did someone already say that ?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #662 on: June 08, 2017, 03:39:04 pm »
and has committed a crime by "leaking" conversations with his client.

Is he claiming that releasing information regarding unclassified conversations is somehow a crime or is he implying something else?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #663 on: June 08, 2017, 03:58:56 pm »
Is he claiming that releasing information regarding unclassified conversations is somehow a crime or is he implying something else?
My impression is that your characterization is correct: that Comey releasing his memos on his conversations is a crime.  Remember, he is from the Trump camp, so don't apply logic or rigor. 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #665 on: June 08, 2017, 04:20:13 pm »
Comey should have kept his mouth shut concerning the Clinton investigation. His mistake was holding a news conference both exonerating her and then another one to announce the reopening, after the dickwagger's wife's email revelation, a few days before the election. What was that all about...say nothing until indictment. The best thing that has happened to the FBI was him getting the boot.

"He's a nut job"...did someone already say that ?

Comey said he felt it necessary to clear the air vis a vis Clinton's emails because it was so politically sensitive.  Unfortunately, that created what he described as a "duty to disclose" when they re-opened the investigation because of Weiner's laptop.  It was that action that caused an immediate and irredeemable drop in the polls for Clinton, but it was set in motion by the earlier air-clearing statements.

He isn't a nut job, he's Dudley Do-Right.  He was trying to be as upstanding as possible, but ended up boxing himself in by accident.

FYI, Trump's comments about Comey, both on Twitter and to the Russian delegation he received in the Oval Office, mean that he's S.O.L. on pushing for privilege or confidentiality on this topic.  You can't run your mouth and then claim that it's a secret.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #666 on: June 08, 2017, 04:32:34 pm »
In the words of Hillary Clinton, this whole thing is a "NOTHING-BURGER"

No need for privilege or confidentiality on this topic


"Trump lawyer says James Comey made ‘unauthorized disclosures’ of privileged talks"

Lock him up....lock him up...lock him up.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 04:43:46 pm by AstroNut »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #667 on: June 08, 2017, 04:45:31 pm »
Chris Matthews take on Comey testimony...

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/chris-matthews-trump-russia-collusion-theory-came-apart-with-comey-testimony/article/2625372

Looking at the specific quotes from Matthews, the fact that Trump wasn't / isn't under investigation personally is a distraction.  Nevertheless, he still - according to Comey's sworn testimony - told Comey to drop the investigation into Mike Flynn.  Trump then fired Comey and said that he did it because of the Russia investigation (to Lester Holt on live TV) and that it relieved the pressure on him (to the Russians, as documented in a White House transcript).  All of that is grounds for an obstruction of justice charge whether or not Flynn is important to the Russia investigation.

The fact that Flynn isn't central to the Russia investigation is also irrelevant to Trump's actions.  We have no idea why Trump was trying to get Flynn off the FBI's radar, but just because it might not have been to stop Flynn rolling over on him doesn't mean that things didn't happen the way Comey said it did.  Also, Flynn's lawyer has stated publicly that Flynn has a story to tell and will tell it in return for immunity.  The fact that he doesn't (yet) have immunity to testify means either they don't think his story is worth it, or that they don't need to give him immunity because they have enough evidence from elsewhere, or that there is no "there" there.  The latter seemingly highly unlikely given Trump's extreme action to relieve the pressure of the investigation from himself.

In the end, that's a very cherry-picked set of quotes from Matthews, in which he muses that Comey's testimony means that there isn't any collusion between Trump and Russia.  Well, that's what Director Mueller is now charged with pursuing, so that investigation remains ongoing.  That's the thing about investigations, you keep going until you get to the end of the line.  That's why, for example, mafia investigations start by nailing a low level goon for some shit, and then getting him to roll over on the next guy up the chain.  Rinse, repeat until you reach the top.

As an interesting aside, Mueller has been adding prosecutors to his team.  Prosecutors with experience of going after organized crime.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 04:47:25 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #668 on: June 09, 2017, 09:40:00 am »
It wasn't just the tarmac chat.  She also tried to direct his narrative regarding the server.  Both of which were completely unnecessary.  And there's no probably about his testimony.  He said both of those things were why he came out publicly.  It looks to me like the unnecessary dick-stepping in the previous administration may have directly led to Hillary's loss.  Which then leads to the current dick-stepping in this administration.  But it also makes me think that if Hillary had been elected the same Obama admin dick-steppers would still be there dick-stepping and we'd still be sitting here watching congressional investigations into said dick-stepping.  In other words we had two bad candidates for president.

I can certainly understand the motivation, but when millions of ordinary Republican voters pulled the lever for someone they themselves deemed unfit to serve, it's at best spurious to blame Trump's victory on the democrats. If nothing else, it condescends to those voters to imagine that they lack the agency to make good decisions independent of tribal dynamics.

Trump is happening because regular Republicans voted for him en masse. Just own it. 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #669 on: June 09, 2017, 10:11:07 am »
Going rather farther afield here, I've recently been really enjoying this new "writings from left, right and center" feature on NYT's Web site. Last week they posted a piece about never-Trumpers (http://www.dennisprager.com/why-conservatives-still-attack-trump/) from a talk show host named Dennis Prager. His essay begins:

"When people you know well, admire, and who share your values do something you strongly oppose, you have two options:

1) Cease admiring them or 2) try to understand them and change their minds."

I was stunned that nowhere did he acknowledge or even hint at the third option, which is to re-examine one's own beliefs and allow for a little doubt! I wonder how widespread this way of thinking is and if it is distinctly more a trend among right-leaning than left-leaning minds, (And I wonder honestly: When I brought this up among a group of similarly left family and friends the other day, no one immediately shared my reaction.)

Either way, it certainly seems to me like a fine crystallization of one of our Big Problems as a Society: that we inflexibly assume our rectitude, and our most instinctive strategies are to scorn or persuade rather than engage with doubt.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #670 on: June 09, 2017, 10:20:02 am »
Going rather farther afield here, I've recently been really enjoying this new "writings from left, right and center" feature on NYT's Web site. Last week they posted a piece about never-Trumpers (http://www.dennisprager.com/why-conservatives-still-attack-trump/) from a talk show host named Dennis Prager. His essay begins:

"When people you know well, admire, and who share your values do something you strongly oppose, you have two options:

1) Cease admiring them or 2) try to understand them and change their minds."

I was stunned that nowhere did he acknowledge or even hint at the third option, which is to re-examine one's own beliefs and allow for a little doubt! I wonder how widespread this way of thinking is and if it is distinctly more a trend among right-leaning than left-leaning minds, (And I wonder honestly: When I brought this up among a group of similarly left family and friends the other day, no one immediately shared my reaction.)

Either way, it certainly seems to me like a fine crystallization of one of our Big Problems as a Society: that we inflexibly assume our rectitude, and our most instinctive strategies are to scorn or persuade rather than engage with doubt.

I would think it has less to do with right or left but how far out on the extreme of either end you are.  You get out to the extreme in large part because of the heavy strength of faith you put in your own position regardless of how well or poorly reasoned.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #671 on: June 09, 2017, 10:31:57 am »
Meanwhile in the UK... that backfired. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #672 on: June 09, 2017, 10:39:54 am »
Meanwhile in the UK... that backfired.

Jonah Keri nailed it:

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #673 on: June 09, 2017, 10:40:33 am »
Meanwhile in the UK... that backfired.

Jonah Keri nailed it:

If you call a Snap election, someone will say I've Got the Power


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #674 on: June 09, 2017, 11:08:58 am »
Meanwhile in the UK... that backfired.

May's position is untenable, so she'll likely go soon.  In the meantime, the Tories are partnering with the DUP, effectively handing control of government to 10 anti-same sex marriage, anti-abortion, climate deniers.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #675 on: June 09, 2017, 05:34:40 pm »
May's position is untenable, so she'll likely go soon.  In the meantime, the Tories are partnering with the DUP, effectively handing control of government to 10 anti-same sex marriage, anti-abortion, climate deniers.

Just like us!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #676 on: June 09, 2017, 06:44:10 pm »
Trump today emphatically contradicted Comey's sworn testimony, even offering to repeat his version of events under oath. 

So now we know: there are no tapes. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #677 on: June 09, 2017, 08:46:01 pm »
Just like us!

Putting the "special" in special relationship. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #678 on: June 12, 2017, 08:29:40 am »
Trump today emphatically contradicted Comey's sworn testimony, even offering to repeat his version of events under oath. 

So now we know: there are no tapes.

Update on the tapes.  Trump is spinning out a thread; proclaiming that he'll make an announcement about the tapes very soon.  Because...sweeps week?  Anyway, there's a delicious irony here: Trump is using the possibility of recordings of his conversations with Comey as support for his innocence, whereas the non-existence of tapes means that his false claims on the subject could be construed as additional interference with Comey, adding more layers to potential obstruction of justice charges.  Pressuring a witness against you into silence is classic obstruction.

The first rule, when in a hole, is stop digging...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #679 on: June 12, 2017, 08:33:36 am »
May's position is untenable, so she'll likely go soon.  In the meantime, the Tories are partnering with the DUP, effectively handing control of government to 10 anti-same sex marriage, anti-abortion, climate deniers.

It occurred to me over the weekend: May's election failure was the result of an attempt by her to shore up her position as PM by increasing her party's majority; while the Brexit debacle came about because May's predecessor - Cameron - wanted to throw some red meat to the extremities of his party in order to shore up his position as PM.

Cameron resigned; May will do so soon.  Hoist on their own petards.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #680 on: June 12, 2017, 11:42:20 am »
So do you guys see an impeachment ahead for Trump?

Indictment for obstruction of justice?

Treason for talking with the Russians?

Election tampering in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio (something illegal must have happened)? Trump carries 2600 counties to Clinton 500…something fishy? Are the ignorant voters that spread out ? 84% of geographic U.S. ?

Illegal harassment of Illegal aliens?

Failure to support a constitutional amendment to outlaw an, ‘America First’, agenda, because it will hurt the feelings of other nations around the globe.
Unfair treatment of trading partner countries for demanding fair trade, as well as free trade?

Proposing a budget that will cut hundreds of billions of dollars in federal spending, just because we don't want to burden future generations with our debt?

Disregarding the global climate crisis and not looking to China as the model of good climate behavior ?

For labeling these worldwide terrorist attacks as, Radical Islamic Terrorism, and not just ignoring it until it goes away. Or at the very least, consider it isolated instances of unorganized, lone wolf attacks.


More charges are currently being debated on all the news/media outlets, Washington political halls, and foreign capitals around the world (except Moscow)…stay tuned.

We could set it up like the Nuremburg trails and have Nancy Pelosi officiate…include the Trump kids as defendants…greedy little spoiled brats. Have CNN and MCNBC bid for exclusive rights, with all proceeds going to fund Planned Parenthood ?

There is much work to be done… waiting for Mueller and the investigation to bear fruit.



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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #681 on: June 12, 2017, 11:45:58 am »
So do you guys see an impeachment ahead for Trump?

Indictment for obstruction of justice?

Treason for talking with the Russians?

Election tampering in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio (something illegal must have happened)? Trump carries 2600 counties to Clinton 500…something fishy? Are the ignorant voters that spread out ? 84% of geographic U.S. ?

Illegal harassment of Illegal aliens?

Failure to support a constitutional amendment to outlaw an, ‘America First’, agenda, because it will hurt the feelings of other nations around the globe.
Unfair treatment of trading partner countries for demanding fair trade, as well as free trade?

Proposing a budget that will cut hundreds of billions of dollars in federal spending, just because we don't want to burden future generations with our debt?

Disregarding the global climate crisis and not looking to China as the model of good climate behavior ?

For labeling these worldwide terrorist attacks as, Radical Islamic Terrorism, and not just ignoring it until it goes away. Or at the very least, consider it isolated instances of unorganized, lone wolf attacks.


More charges are currently being debated on all the news/media outlets, Washington political halls, and foreign capitals around the world (except Moscow)…stay tuned.

We could set it up like the Nuremburg trails and have Nancy Pelosi officiate…include the Trump kids as defendants…greedy little spoiled brats. Have CNN and MCNBC bid for exclusive rights, with all proceeds going to fund Planned Parenthood ?

There is much work to be done… waiting for Mueller and the investigation to bear fruit.

Quoting this for posterity the next time you want to call someone a snowflake. To call this a straw man would be an insult to straw men.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #682 on: June 12, 2017, 11:46:09 am »
Well, can't say your username didn't warn us.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #683 on: June 12, 2017, 02:49:19 pm »
Quoting this for posterity the next time you want to call someone a snowflake. To call this a straw man would be an insult to straw men.


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Snowflake?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #684 on: June 12, 2017, 03:04:19 pm »
So do you guys see an impeachment ahead for Trump?

Not unless the House and Senate get flipped next election.  As far as high crimes or misdemeanors go, obstruction of justice worked for Nixon and Clinton.  The question is whether what Trump has done rises to the level.  There's certainly a litany of dumb-ass things he's said that would create grounds for such a charge.  According to Comey, Director Mueller is looking into whether there's an act or acts that rises to the level of criminal obstruction.  I'll let him make that call, and we'll see what Congress does with it thereafter.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #685 on: June 12, 2017, 04:36:59 pm »
These are common people, salt of the earth. You know... morons.


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Why all the name calling...sorry if my comments upset you...not all of morons are as smart and all knowing as you.

Try to accept the election results and get a grip on that anger.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #686 on: June 12, 2017, 04:38:46 pm »
Why all the name calling...sorry if my comments upset you...not all of morons are as smart and all knowing as you.

Try to accept the election results and get a grip on that anger.

You are trying way too hard.
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Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #687 on: June 12, 2017, 04:47:28 pm »
Why all the name calling...sorry if my comments upset you...not all of morons are as smart and all knowing as you.

I see that quoting one movie line is now "name calling", given that in your second quote, I did not call you a name. I merely pointed out your pathetic whining.

I'm far from all knowing. Knowing what you don't know is a major part of life. But given that, I'm 100% confident that I'm smarter than the President. Given what little grasp of facts you have shown, I'm equally confident I'm smarter than you.

Quote
Try to accept the election results and get a grip on that anger.

Trolls that are far smarter and more talented than you have made me angry. You haven't come close to making me angry.

I understand the election results quite well. That doesn't mean hat I sit back and sip cocktails while I watch a buffoon destroy the presidency.

I disagree with Mike Pence on many things, but at least I don't wake up at night thinking he will accidentally start a war.


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« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 04:55:56 pm by MusicMan »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #688 on: June 12, 2017, 04:55:36 pm »
I disagree with Mike Pence on many things, but at least I don't wake up at night thinking he will accidentally start a war.

Trump has contradicted Tillerson twice now on Qatar, siding with the Saudis rather than with his Secretary of State.  It has been speculated (by reasonable people) that, after he accused Qatar of being a state sponsor of terror, Trump did not know that the U.S. has 10,000 troops stationed there.

He will get people killed before this is over.  The only question is how many:  a lot, or apocalyptic numbers?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #689 on: June 12, 2017, 05:28:26 pm »
Try to accept the election results and get a grip on that anger.

This is the attitude that drives me nuts the most... like this election was a sporting event and there was a winner and a loser and every fucking person has to just stfu and deal with it. It literally ignores every presidency ever before this one.

I won't "try to accept" this election... why the hell should I not be angry? Can we only protest an election if we bastardize the Boston Tea Party for everything that event was against?

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #690 on: June 12, 2017, 06:08:35 pm »
MusicMan...upon hindsight, I am the one who got too emotional. MusicMan I apologize for the pointed comments.

This past election demanded a change in Washington D.C. Too bad we could not have just unelected the entire congress with one referendum vote...Congress would have lost. I think we need term limits. That may have been enough to satisfy the blood thirst.

Instead we had a choice between the two flawed candidates for POTUS. A steep price to pay for the sake of change.



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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #691 on: June 12, 2017, 06:13:56 pm »
MusicMan...upon hindsight, I am the one who got too emotional. MusicMan I apologize for the pointed comments.

Good man. Apology accepted.

Now, let's Make the Astros Rotation Healthy Again


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #693 on: June 15, 2017, 01:57:51 pm »
Trump has contradicted Tillerson twice now on Qatar, siding with the Saudis rather than with his Secretary of State.  It has been speculated (by reasonable people) that, after he accused Qatar of being a state sponsor of terror, Trump did not know that the U.S. has 10,000 troops stationed there.

He will get people killed before this is over.  The only question is how many:  a lot, or apocalyptic numbers?

Today, the US govt sold $12 billion of F-15s to Qatar.  Because...MAGA?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #694 on: June 15, 2017, 04:54:59 pm »
The Washington Post reported that Mueller is definitely investigating Trump for potential criminal obstruction arising out of the whole "Flynn thing".

Meanwhile, Mike Pence - who has been getting overlooked in all the noise around Trump, but has been caught repeatedly lying about what he knew and when he knew it - just lawyered up.

Sessions yesterday denied having had any meetings with lobbyists working on behalf of Russian interests.  At least, he said he didn't recall any.  Today, a lobbyist who worked on behalf of Russian interests claimed to have had multiple meetings with Sessions in that capacity during the campaign.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #695 on: June 15, 2017, 10:14:24 pm »
Witch hunt...what a waste of taxpayer money. It is unbelievable the ends that the establishment will go to see that Trump fails...sad.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #696 on: June 16, 2017, 12:32:11 am »
Sessions yesterday denied having had any meetings with lobbyists working on behalf of Russian interests.  At least, he said he didn't recall any.  Today, a lobbyist who worked on behalf of Russian interests claimed to have had multiple meetings with Sessions in that capacity during the campaign.

Trump's little garden gnome is obviously none too bright. None of them seems to be, really. But that doesn't strike me as all that unusual. What I have been wondering about and what I may never discover once this is all over is what the fuck were these people thinking? I assume they thought that Trump would never win and as a result none of this would ever really come to light, and that anything untoward that was happening would embarrass and weaken Clinton so it was in some way justifiable.

The Obama White House told GOP leadership that Russia was fucking with the election and the GOP said, Right on! That I get. I don't see how inaction or disinterest is necessarily criminal in that case. But collusion? Mueller seems among many other things to be looking at money laundering which would point to collusion. Did these guys really think this would never surface?

And the constant lying about meeting with various people? Hey, Beauregard, people film everything these days. If you say you didn't meet with someone (under oath, by the way) but seven people have film or pictures of it, I mean, really, what are you doing?

Trump is an simple manchild and he thinks, quite correctly, given his history, that he can do whatever he wants and nothing will touch him. And for now he's secure knowing that the House won't do anything about any obstruction charges which will inevitably emerge. The obstruction part of this is the least interesting piece to me, partly because it's so obvious, so plain, and partly because in Trump's case nothing will come of it, at least not until he's had plenty of time to do god knows what kind of stupid shit. But the obstruction piece may well end up being the lynchpin to all of this because all sorts of fuckwit underlings will end up being charged with obstruction, too, and to save their own skin those cocksuckers will roll over faster than you can sneeze.

They'll serve three years in a white collar prison and then get their own show on redneck radio. It'll be great.

But really, what were these guys thinking? Did they think that Clinton would win and none of this would get exposed because no one would be interested?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #697 on: June 16, 2017, 02:53:14 am »
Witch hunt...what a waste of taxpayer money. It is unbelievable the ends that the establishment will go to see that Trump fails...sad.

People who still support this orange turd.....SAD!    The opposite of MAGA.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #698 on: June 16, 2017, 07:58:52 am »
Trump's little garden gnome is obviously none too bright. None of them seems to be, really.
.........
Trump is an simple manchild and he thinks, quite correctly, given his history, that he can do whatever he wants and nothing will touch him.
.........

But really, what were these guys thinking? Did they think that Clinton would win and none of this would get exposed because no one would be interested?

I constantly struggle with my understanding of this crew.  It seems like every week, they reveal themselves as stupider than the week before.  They have expanding my conception of the black swan phenomenon: the mixing of very low-probabilities of stupidity, arrogance, and luck in an environment ruled by angry tribal supporters.

However, I'm not willing to give them enough credit to conclude that they could even contemplate that Trump would lose and this would never be uncovered.  To me, it seems like your observation of the leader is spot on, and they, being really fucking stupid and insecure, just follow along.  Foresight isn't in their DNA.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #699 on: June 16, 2017, 08:19:15 am »
Witch hunt...what a waste of taxpayer money. It is unbelievable the ends that the establishment will go to see that Trump fails...sad.

Still trying to decide if you're being ironic or not, but it's a fraction under 140 characters so...golf clap!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #700 on: June 16, 2017, 08:28:15 am »
Last night, DAG Rosenstein issued a bizarre written public statement, basically telling us to ignore what we read in the press if the sources are anonymous.  It was an odd statement in and of itself, made even more curious by admonishing us to also consider the country of origin of the anonymous source.  It's almost as if Trump wrote it himself.  Is he worried that there may be tapes reports coming out of, say, Russia, that may or may not have yellow stains on them?

It's also laughable on its face because just the day before, the NTY and WaPo published overlapping reports - sourced anonymously - about Trump now being under investigation for criminal obstruction, which Trump then confirmed the following morning in a tweet.  It's hard to disregard anonymous sources when Trump himself confirms their validity.

Lastly, and this is a good one, how is Rosenstein still involved in the Trump investigation?  Given his role in trying to put a fig leaf over Trump's firing of Comey (which Trump blew away a day or two later), Rosenstein is now a material witness in the obstruction case.  Doesn't he now have to recuse himself from oversight of an investigation in which he's a witness?  Especially given his memo about anonymous sources, which sounds a little obstructiony itself.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #701 on: June 16, 2017, 08:37:41 am »
Meanwhile, Mike Pence - who has been getting overlooked in all the noise around Trump, but has been caught repeatedly lying about what he knew and when he knew it - just lawyered up.

As an aside, this explains Pence's unusual move - never done before by a sitting VP - of creating his own reelection SuperPAC.  He did this a few weeks ago and has been fundraising ever since, including a $5000-a-plate shindig last night.  Pence can pay his personal attorneys from SuperPAC money*.

* SuperPACs are such a scam.  They do plenty of damage to the political discourse, but they're mostly there to pay for lawyers, jets and fat salaries for the fund executives.  Trump's PAC spent most of its money through Trump-owned businesses, so it really was just a large vacuum cleaner sucking up money into his back pocket.

As to the identity of Pence's lawyer?  Unlike Trump - who was black-balled by the major Washington law firms due to his track record of not paying lawyers' (or anyone else's) bills - Pence got a guy who at least knows the playing field he's on as he was on the government's (losing) side in both Watergate and Iran-Contra.  Trump's guy was on the losing side in the Trump University and many other failed Trump ego-suits.

They're bringing blasters to a fight with Darth Vader.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 08:39:37 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #702 on: June 16, 2017, 09:15:01 am »
Last one on this topic (until the next major bombshell development...i.e. 10 - 15 minutes).

Trump tweeted this morning:
“I am being investigated for firing the FBI Director by the man who told me to fire the FBI Director!  Witch Hunt.”

Think about this:  Trump is attacking the guy who followed orders to write a memo justifying Trump's firing of Director Comey, which Trump then said was irrelevant because he was going to fire Comey anyway because of the "Trump-Russia thing".  That statement, reportedly, was the catalyst for Director Mueller to turn his attention to possible criminal obstruction by Trump.  And now it's somehow Rosenstein's fault?  Trump in this complaint is somehow trying to turn the clock back to before the time he opened his fat mouth to Lester Holt when there was at least a semblance of pretext about the reason for Comey's termination.  Maybe he doesn't realise that the rest of us have an attention span longer than a goldfish.

Oh, and First Son-in-Law Kushner's business dealings are being investigated as to possible connections to Russian money laundering activities.  Mueller has been further beefing up his investigation and prosecution teams people highly respected in the fields of money laundering and organized crime; so that's a pretty strong signal as to where this investigation is now going.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 09:16:48 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #703 on: June 16, 2017, 10:10:11 am »
Last night, DAG Rosenstein issued a bizarre written public statement, basically telling us to ignore what we read in the press if the sources are anonymous.  It was an odd statement in and of itself, made even more curious by admonishing us to also consider the country of origin of the anonymous source.  It's almost as if Trump wrote it himself.  Is he worried that there may be tapes reports coming out of, say, Russia, that may or may not have yellow stains on them?

It's also laughable on its face because just the day before, the NTY and WaPo published overlapping reports - sourced anonymously - about Trump now being under investigation for criminal obstruction, which Trump then confirmed the following morning in a tweet.  It's hard to disregard anonymous sources when Trump himself confirms their validity.

Lastly, and this is a good one, how is Rosenstein still involved in the Trump investigation?  Given his role in trying to put a fig leaf over Trump's firing of Comey (which Trump blew away a day or two later), Rosenstein is now a material witness in the obstruction case.  Doesn't he now have to recuse himself from oversight of an investigation in which he's a witness?  Especially given his memo about anonymous sources, which sounds a little obstructiony itself.

But the Times harms its credibility when it publishes an editorial based on a lie.  It certainly should make readers wonder what is true and what isn't as it's published there.  When readers laugh that they'll have to wait a day or two to see if they offer a retraction the Times has a real problem.  Too it gives ammo to the right who question their motives and credibility.

HTF does that shooting editorial get through the process?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #704 on: June 16, 2017, 10:43:37 am »
Trump tweeted this morning:
“I am being investigated for firing the FBI Director by the man who told me to fire the FBI Director!  Witch Hunt.”
Trump is being investigated by that little man inside his head?  An investigation sure to lead nowhere.




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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #705 on: June 16, 2017, 10:47:38 am »
But the Times harms its credibility when it publishes an editorial based on a lie.  It certainly should make readers wonder what is true and what isn't as it's published there.  When readers laugh that they'll have to wait a day or two to see if they offer a retraction the Times has a real problem.  Too it gives ammo to the right who question their motives and credibility.

HTF does that shooting editorial get through the process?

Which editorial?

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #707 on: June 16, 2017, 10:57:11 am »
Which editorial?

The one that decries gun violence in general and political gun violence in particular. It made the mistake of associating one right wing nutcase's actions with the objectionable political propaganda of a different right wing idiot. Apparently the two simply share sensibilities rather than causal links.

The editorial was not "based" on this misapprehension, and any attempts to portray institutions such as the Times or the Post as anything other than standardly reliable journalistic outlets (that rush to correct their errors) are comical.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #708 on: June 16, 2017, 11:13:49 am »
The one that decries gun violence in general and political gun violence in particular. It made the mistake of associating one right wing nutcase's actions with the objectionable political propaganda of a different right wing idiot. Apparently the two simply share sensibilities rather than causal links.

The editorial was not "based" on this misapprehension, and any attempts to portray institutions such as the Times or the Post as anything other than standardly reliable journalistic outlets (that rush to correct their errors) are comical.

WTF?  They specifically linked the politically related shooting this week with the Gabby Giffords shooting claiming it was right-wing politically motivated when it was not.  That type of motivation is the foundation of the editorial.  And how the hell did they get the old Palin thing wrong?  It reads like the editors rushed the hell out of it; thought what they wrote was accurate and so didn't bother to fact check themselves.  If they had that entire editorial would read completely different or not exist at all.

This may not harm the Times general sense of reliability, but it certainly makes the editorial board look partisan.  And what they'll get for all of this is right-wingers using it to question the integrity of every other story rather than what they intended which was to further the case for gun control.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #709 on: June 16, 2017, 11:20:06 am »
The Times editorial board is absolutely partisan. As is the WSJ's. As is every other editorial board.

People, in general, need to differentiate between editorial boards and news reporters.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #710 on: June 16, 2017, 11:32:40 am »
The Times editorial board is absolutely partisan. As is the WSJ's. As is every other editorial board.

People, in general, need to differentiate between editorial boards and news reporters.


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Fair enough.  So did they just get lazy or willfully lie?  Either way it looks bad.  But worse it gives ammo to those who don't like them.  They dickstepped and we'll see if there's any real fallout.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #711 on: June 16, 2017, 11:36:30 am »
WTF?  They specifically linked the politically related shooting this week with the Gabby Giffords shooting claiming it was right-wing politically motivated when it was not.  That type of motivation is the foundation of the editorial.  And how the hell did they get the old Palin thing wrong?  It reads like the editors rushed the hell out of it; thought what they wrote was accurate and so didn't bother to fact check themselves.  If they had that entire editorial would read completely different or not exist at all.

This may not harm the Times general sense of reliability, but it certainly makes the editorial board look partisan.  And what they'll get for all of this is right-wingers using it to question the integrity of every other story rather than what they intended which was to further the case for gun control.

The editorial board is allowed to be partisan, if it wants, because it's opinion, not reportage.  This is the exact distinction that Fox News uses when their morning muppets and evening spittal generators promote long-debunked falsehoods and outrageous conspiracies.  The TImes article appeared in the opinion section and even has "opinion" in the URL.  This is why they corrected their factual error but left the article up.

Trump has talked about "second amendment people" being able to stop Hillary if the political process couldn't; famed nutjob Sharron Angle also talked about people resorting to "second amendment remedies" if they didn't like election results.  These people are flicking matches in a gasoline depot; just because you don't see their match ignite the explosion doesn't mean that it was ok to be doing so.

And, yes, it's not accurate to say that Sarah Palin's crosshairs were on Giffords herself; it was just on her district... that she represents...

I realize that this is imagery and not a direct call for assassination, but the problem is that - instead of accepting that such imagery was ill-advised even though not directly responsible for the action of a mentally unstable individual - the response is to attack the messenger and call people idiots for thinking there is a connection between increasingly violent rhetoric and imagery in politics and increasingly violent behavior in the political arena.  So, the Times stands by it's opinion, while correcting a technical error in the support for their argument.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #712 on: June 16, 2017, 11:40:42 am »
Fair enough.  So did they just get lazy or willfully lie?  Either way it looks bad.  But worse it gives ammo to those who don't like them.  They dickstepped and we'll see if there's any real fallout.

I'd say lazy. Lazy explains a great many mistakes.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #713 on: June 16, 2017, 11:46:20 am »
I'd say lazy. Lazy explains a great many mistakes.


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I agree.  This is what bothers me though.  The left wasn't their target audience.  The hard lefties here and elsewhere saying don't mind it aren't helping.  Their target are those in the middle who don't feel strongly either way.  This kind of stupid mistake doesn't help win them over.  The Times HAS to be better to win them over.  I know they've lost readers so maybe all of this is for nothing if they don't reach their target audience anyway.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #714 on: June 16, 2017, 11:47:28 am »
Fair enough.  So did they just get lazy or willfully lie?  Either way it looks bad.  But worse it gives ammo to those who don't like them.  They dickstepped and we'll see if there's any real fallout.

It'll be the rationale for decrying every damaging report as "fake news!"  Then, 2 hours later, Trump will blurt out something that confirms that the news wasn't fake.  This is a consistent pattern.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #715 on: June 16, 2017, 12:53:13 pm »
I agree.  This is what bothers me though.  The left wasn't their target audience.  The hard lefties here and elsewhere saying don't mind it aren't helping.  Their target are those in the middle who don't feel strongly either way.  This kind of stupid mistake doesn't help win them over.  The Times HAS to be better to win them over.  I know they've lost readers so maybe all of this is for nothing if they don't reach their target audience anyway.

Who don't feel strongly either way about what?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #716 on: June 16, 2017, 01:12:32 pm »
Who don't feel strongly either way about what?

Trump hit a 60% disapproval rating this week.  Only one other President has ever plumbed that depth since they started polling such things, and that was W. Bush when he was well into his 2nd term, after Iraq and Katrina.  Trump got there in 144 days.

Trump is also only the 3rd President ever to be under criminal investigation while in office; the others being Nixon and Clinton.  Both those others got there well into their 2nd terms, being Watergate and BlowJobGate respectively.  Trump got there, for Flynn-a-Lago (h/t MusicMan), in 144 days.

Today, Trump appointed his family's event planner to be the head of the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development's Region II, which includes New York and New Jersey.  She has no experience of any kind to justify this position.  However, in addition to planning events for the Trumps, she also helps run Eric Trump's charity - the one that's just been accused of skimming hundreds of thousands of dollars from kids with cancer.  HUD's Region II's budget runs to the billions, so there's nothing to worry about here.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #717 on: June 16, 2017, 11:14:02 pm »
Still trying to decide if you're being ironic or not, but it's a fraction under 140 characters so...golf clap!

No irony intended...

The best political interview I heard recently was when Megan Kelly inquired to Putin about the Russians affecting the U.S. election and Russian influence on Trump...response..."I never met the man...have you people lost your minds over there "... fortunately not 85% of the country...geographically.

The establishment is still crying a river...




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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #718 on: June 16, 2017, 11:50:24 pm »
fortunately not 85% of the country...geographically.

I enjoy this line of reasoning particularly, the one that posits that there is some outsized meaning in the three inbreds that live in a Brewster-sized county in East Asslick, Wyoming, that they get off their sister long enough to figure out how to vote for President Pussy Grabber and that somehow has greater value than the 100,000 people who vote in urban zip codes where people usually put on their pants to go to Walmart.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #719 on: June 17, 2017, 06:16:23 am »
No irony intended...

The best political interview I heard recently was when Megan Kelly inquired to Putin about the Russians affecting the U.S. election and Russian influence on Trump...response..."I never met the man...have you people lost your minds over there "... fortunately not 85% of the country...geographically.

The establishment is still crying a river...

This right here is the problem: you are taking the word of a mass-murderer over the findings of the US intelligence services. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #720 on: June 20, 2017, 08:59:20 am »
Reports say that Trump has mostly abdicated his responsibilities as Commander-in-Chief to his Secretary of Defense and "the Generals".  Well, in recent days, we've had a collision between a US Destroyer and a container ship in the Sea of Japan that cost the lives of 7 US sailors - a tragic accident the aftermath of which might have been more appropriately handled if we had an Ambassador to Japan and/or a Secretary of the Navy.  I do believe the CiC tweeted out his condolences, however.

Also, we shot down a Syrian fighter over Syria; prompting the Russians to say they will shoot down any US planes that stray west of the Euphrates.  This is what happens when you elect a lazy, entitled man-child to the most powerful job on the planet.  Fucking chaos.  Without any coherent or even expressed policy on almost everything, the government departments - including the military - are left to make it up as they go along.

This will get is already out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 09:27:41 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #721 on: June 20, 2017, 09:45:00 am »
Unfilled positions

Anyone have a link to compare Trump unfilled positions to where Obama, Bush, Clinton were at this time into their presidencies?    It seems like Trump is way behind on this, but I don't know for sure.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #722 on: June 20, 2017, 10:10:13 am »
Unfilled positions

Anyone have a link to compare Trump unfilled positions to where Obama, Bush, Clinton were at this time into their presidencies?    It seems like Trump is way behind on this, but I don't know for sure.

I saw the other day that, by this stage in their first terms, Bush and Obama had circa 150 positions filled each while Trump is in the low-40s.  Last I saw, he's only put up an nominee for just over 100 of the 559 jobs that are Senate-confirmed positions; Trump is massively behind in filling positions that don't require confirmation too.  Presumably because he's run out of sons-in-law.

The big(ly) problem is that people do not want to work for Trump's administration, perhaps because they don't want to end up in jail.  When your lawyers are hiring lawyers, it's not a good look for prospective employees.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 10:12:06 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #723 on: June 20, 2017, 10:11:32 am »
Unfilled positions

Anyone have a link to compare Trump unfilled positions to where Obama, Bush, Clinton were at this time into their presidencies?    It seems like Trump is way behind on this, but I don't know for sure.

The Link

President Trump has roughly 1,100 top-tier positions to fill across his administration.

So far, he's nominated only 111 of them.

No president in modern history has fallen so far behind in naming heads of agencies, assistant secretaries, ambassadors and other critical leadership roles that require Senate approval.

As of Tuesday, only 41 of Trump's 111 nominees have cleared the Senate, according to data compiled by the Partnership for Public Service, a nonpartisan, nonprofit that has tracked presidential appointments since 1989.

In the first four months of their administrations, former presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush each named more than 200 nominees, with more than half of them approved by the Senate.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #724 on: June 20, 2017, 10:17:49 am »
Well, that's not good.  Maybe they need to add a iPad with LinkedIn to his golf cart.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #725 on: June 20, 2017, 10:18:38 am »
President Trump has roughly 1,100 top-tier positions to fill across his administration.

It doesn't help when he fires all 50 US Attorneys.  It's not unusual for a new administration to replace most or all of the USA's, but typically they have a fucking clue as to who will take over those jobs.  Trump kicked them all out in one day, without warning, without a plan to replace them and without any opportunity to effect any kind of transition to the next person.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #726 on: June 20, 2017, 10:33:45 am »
It doesn't help when he fires all 50 US Attorneys.  It's not unusual for a new administration to replace most or all of the USA's, but typically they have a fucking clue as to who will take over those jobs.  Trump kicked them all out in one day, without warning, without a plan to replace them and without any opportunity to effect any kind of transition to the next person.

Same thing with the non-career ambassadors. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #727 on: June 20, 2017, 11:48:41 am »
Same thing with the non-career ambassadors.

Yep.  I think we are without Ambassadors to Canada and Britain, and without Ambassadors to Japan and South Korea - which is important given the crap going on with North Korea at the moment.  Japan's PM isn't always going to be at dinner on the patio at Mar-a-Lago when the shit goes down, but at least he has Trump's unsecured cell phone number.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #728 on: June 20, 2017, 01:07:34 pm »
It doesn't help when he fires all 50 US Attorneys.  It's not unusual for a new administration to replace most or all of the USA's, but typically they have a fucking clue as to who will take over those jobs.  Trump kicked them all out in one day, without warning, without a plan to replace them and without any opportunity to effect any kind of transition to the next person.

He drained the drinking water reservoir and left the swamp.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #729 on: June 20, 2017, 06:01:03 pm »
Yep.  I think we are without Ambassadors to Canada and Britain, and without Ambassadors to Japan and South Korea - which is important given the crap going on with North Korea at the moment.  Japan's PM isn't always going to be at dinner on the patio at Mar-a-Lago when the shit goes down, but at least he has Trump's unsecured cell phone number.

According to the American Foreign Service Association there are 57 countries with no current ambassador.

Significantly:  Afghanistan, Australia, every major European nation including the EU and NATO, South Korea, Japan,  Quatar, Saudi Arabia, 7 of 10 UN ambassadors. 

But none of these sins of omission are as appalling as the sin of commission McConnell and Co. are committing with the massive tax cut to the very wealthy "healthcare" bill.  A fucking appalling insult to democracy and fundamental human decency. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #730 on: June 20, 2017, 09:53:49 pm »
Two more elections hacked by the Russians:

S. Carolina 5th

Georgia 6th...$50 million in California money could not pull it off...must have been the Ruskies. Jimmy Carter needs to look into this. Did Newt have any contact with the Russians ?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #731 on: June 20, 2017, 10:05:00 pm »
Georgia 6th...$50 million in California money could not pull it off...must have been the Ruskies. Jimmy Carter needs to look into this. Did Newt have any contact with the Russians ?

Yeah, nothing to see here, nothing for the R's to worry about. A district that has traditionally been so red that nobody even thought about it is now a toss-up because Trump is so toxic. Just keep on whistling past that graveyard. Maybe they can enact some more ridiculous disenfranchisement policies.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #732 on: June 20, 2017, 10:36:14 pm »
Two more elections hacked by the Russians:

S. Carolina 5th

Georgia 6th...$50 million in California money could not pull it off...must have been the Ruskies. Jimmy Carter needs to look into this. Did Newt have any contact with the Russians ?

Have you always been such an insufferable dick?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #733 on: June 20, 2017, 11:01:17 pm »
Have you always been such an insufferable dick?

He likes Donald fucking Trump, so the odds are pretty good.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #734 on: June 20, 2017, 11:03:09 pm »
Yeah, nothing to see here, nothing for the R's to worry about. A district that has traditionally been so red that nobody even thought about it is now a toss-up because Trump is so toxic. Just keep on whistling past that graveyard. Maybe they can enact some more ridiculous disenfranchisement policies.

I understand what happens in East Asslick, but I'm amazed that in a predominantly high income area full of reasonably successful professionals that there would be 150,000 of them who'd watch six months of this shitshow and decide, Yep, this seems great, let's have us some more of it.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #735 on: June 20, 2017, 11:08:33 pm »
I understand what happens in East Asslick, but I'm amazed that in a predominantly high income area full of reasonably successful professionals that there would be 150,000 of them who'd watch six months of this shitshow and decide, Yep, this seems great, let's have us some more of it.

They're gonna get them some tax cuts!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #736 on: June 20, 2017, 11:09:41 pm »
I understand what happens in East Asslick, but I'm amazed that in a predominantly high income area full of reasonably successful professionals that there would be 150,000 of them who'd watch six months of this shitshow and decide, Yep, this seems great, let's have us some more of it.

Perhaps a vast majority of those 150,000 think someone else is responsible for,"this shitshow"...maybe the swamp dwellers who have fucked things up for so long.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #737 on: June 20, 2017, 11:27:33 pm »
Perhaps a vast majority of those 150,000 think someone else is responsible for,"this shitshow"...maybe the swamp dwellers who have fucked things up for so long.

They probably do believe that, but their team is the one that flat out refused to do anything for eight years. It's not an admirable record.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #738 on: June 21, 2017, 06:04:53 am »
Democrats should not be encouraged by Ossoff's performance. He didn't even match Clinton's margin in the district. The takeaway should be that most Republicans who don't like Trump still vote Republican. Winning back Obama-Trump voters is more achievable than flipping the "Panera Bread" southern suburban white vote.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #739 on: June 21, 2017, 07:21:14 am »
Democrats should not be encouraged by Ossoff's performance. He didn't even match Clinton's margin in the district. The takeaway should be that most Republicans who don't like Trump still vote Republican. Winning back Obama-Trump voters is more achievable than flipping the "Panera Bread" southern suburban white vote.

Where are you getting your info?  Last I read Ossoff got 48.1%, compared to Clinton's 46.8%.  The Dem challenger got 38.3% last November.  Obama got 37.5% in 2012.  Both sides will spin it how they will...the Republicans will say "see, we still won", Democrats will say "we came damn close to winning a seat that seven months ago was impossible".  Trump will continue to be Trump and America will continue to lose. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #740 on: June 21, 2017, 11:46:42 am »
Where are you getting your info?  Last I read Ossoff got 48.1%, compared to Clinton's 46.8%.  The Dem challenger got 38.3% last November.  Obama got 37.5% in 2012.  Both sides will spin it how they will...the Republicans will say "see, we still won", Democrats will say "we came damn close to winning a seat that seven months ago was impossible".  Trump will continue to be Trump and America will continue to lose.

...and Karen Handel is a truly awful person to be an elected official.

At the end of the day, the Democrats do need to reflect on the fact that they've gone 0-4 in these special elections.  I have no confidence that the Republicans won't be able to spin all the shit that has and will happen into a scary story for which they are the only security blanket, and middle America will fall for it again.

If the UK elections have shown anything, the antidote to conservatives saying "Boo!" is to have a definitive and distinctive set of policies that demonstrate a credible contrast to the incumbent government.  The Labour Party was meant to be crushed into oblivion by the snap election, but instead came within a whisker of flipping the government.  Democrats don't need a vanilla, establishment candidate (Clinton), they need a contrasting, crusading candidate (Sanders).

Sanders missed his window; they need to find his understudy and get him ready.  If they think that they will win in 2018 by being "not Trump", they will merely repeat Hillary's failure.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 11:50:43 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #741 on: June 21, 2017, 01:17:45 pm »
What many fail to realize is that irregardless of your opinion of Trump...many in middle America just want the old politics to go away....the drain the swamp mentality...it's not a republican vs democrat thing...they want all the career politicians, lobbyist, and Washington leeches gone...Sanders and Trump were anti status quo.

Much of the onslaught and over the top barrage of Trump hate is from the power brokers who are scared shitless to lose their power...Rep, Dem, Corporate...power that they have garnered without the blessing of the American people.

Congress was suppose to be a part time service where you went to try to solve the issues facing the people...it has become a career where one caters to the special interest for personal gain without regard to the constiuents.

Time for a new party...I don't care if you call it Tea Party, Trumpster (Trump is neither Rep or Dem), Socialist(Sanders)...the people just want their tax dollars to stop being stolen. THE TREASURY IS BROKE.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #742 on: June 21, 2017, 01:29:16 pm »
Oddly enough, I can agree with most of those goals, but I'd never conclude that Trump has made one single stride towards those goals, not would I ever believe he intended to.  It's more "same as the old boss," just a stupider, vainer and less coherent one.

If the swamp is powerful men catering to their self interest, Trump is truly King of the Swamp. 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 01:31:31 pm by jbm »

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #743 on: June 21, 2017, 01:44:18 pm »
Time for a new party...I don't care if you call it Tea Party, Trumpster (Trump is neither Rep or Dem), Socialist(Sanders)...the people just want their tax dollars to stop being stolen. THE TREASURY IS BROKE.

This is what Trump promised, and it's 180 degrees from what he's delivering.  And by stacking the courts with his toadie nominees, he'll ensure the swamp endures and thrives for a generation.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #744 on: June 21, 2017, 01:46:32 pm »
What many fail to realize is that irregardless of your opinion of Trump...many in middle America just want the old politics to go away....the drain the swamp mentality...it's not a republican vs democrat thing...they want all the career politicians, lobbyist, and Washington leeches gone...Sanders and Trump were anti status quo.

Much of the onslaught and over the top barrage of Trump hate is from the power brokers who are scared shitless to lose their power...Rep, Dem, Corporate...power that they have garnered without the blessing of the American people.

Congress was suppose to be a part time service where you went to try to solve the issues facing the people...it has become a career where one caters to the special interest for personal gain without regard to the constiuents.

Time for a new party...I don't care if you call it Tea Party, Trumpster (Trump is neither Rep or Dem), Socialist(Sanders)...the people just want their tax dollars to stop being stolen. THE TREASURY IS BROKE.




I'm all about getting rid of career politicians.  I'm all for term-limits.  I don't think many of those elected officials represent the people, but represent businesses.  But, I in no way think Trump is going to do any of the things you think he is going to do.  I also think too many people pick their party and don't vote for anyone else.

You want to get people out of Washington, don't vote for an incumbent.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #745 on: June 21, 2017, 02:10:03 pm »
Unfilled positions

Anyone have a link to compare Trump unfilled positions to where Obama, Bush, Clinton were at this time into their presidencies?    It seems like Trump is way behind on this, but I don't know for sure.

Late to the party here but Washington Post has a good running summary of this.  Haven't seen it posted yet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-administration-appointee-tracker/database/

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #746 on: June 21, 2017, 03:00:40 pm »
Late to the party here but Washington Post has a good running summary of this.  Haven't seen it posted yet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-administration-appointee-tracker/database/

Somewhat apt that the number of posts missing a nominee is "404".
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #747 on: June 21, 2017, 03:14:19 pm »
I'm all about getting rid of career politicians.  I'm all for term-limits.  I don't think many of those elected officials represent the people, but represent businesses.  But, I in no way think Trump is going to do any of the things you think he is going to do.  I also think too many people pick their party and don't vote for anyone else.

You want to get people out of Washington, don't vote for an incumbent.

It is amazing that anyone could take even a passing look at Trump and see a reformer rather than a grifter.  Here's how his "reforms" work:

President Trump’s budget calls for sharply reducing funding for programs that shelter the poor and combat homelessness — with a notable exception: It leaves intact a type of federal housing subsidy that is paid directly to private landlords.

One of those landlords is Trump himself, who earns millions of dollars each year as a part-owner of Starrett City, the nation’s largest subsidized housing complex.
***
Trump once called Starrett City “one of the best investments I ever made,” but it was his father who was an investor in its construction, according to a representative of Starrett City.


I totally get the "throw out the bums" mentality, but generally the next step is not to replace them with a bigger bum.  None of Trump's proposed policies make government more transparent or accountable.  The unifying theme to them, whether it be healthcare/taxes, the budget, the Muslim ban, the massive deportations, are cruelty to those without with a massive transfer of wealth to the pockets of the ultra-rich.     
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #748 on: June 21, 2017, 03:26:25 pm »
I totally get the "throw out the bums" mentality, but generally the next step is not to replace them with a bigger bum.  None of Trump's proposed policies make government more transparent or accountable.  The unifying theme to them, whether it be healthcare/taxes, the budget, the Muslim ban, the massive deportations, are cruelty to those without with a massive transfer of wealth to the pockets of the ultra-rich.   


He's not even bright enough to cover his tracks.  He and his family are already directly benefiting from Federal dollars, and those of foreign governments, being channeled directly into Trump family owned businesses; Mar-a-Lago summit meetings and weekend visits, the Secret Service taking a floor in Trump Tower, the DC hotel, Ivanka getting retail licenses in Japan the day after she sat in on the meeting with the Japanese Prime Minister, Jared's sister selling investment visas for $500k a go...etc. etc. ad nauseam.

Even the one year of Trump's taxes that we've seen - after the summary page was leaked by, many believe, Trump himself - was an own goal.  It showed that he paid circa $30mm in taxes on circa $150mm of income, which is a chunky rate.  But the summary showed that the $30mm was almost entirely due under AMT rules, and he would otherwise have paid about $1.5mm in taxes.  Guess what he wants to go away under his new tax laws: AMT.  He also wants to slash corporate rates and eliminate the estate tax.  All of which will cut his and his family's tax bills dramatically.

They are leaches.  They were attached in an effort to make us better but the reality is that they're just sucking out our lifeblood.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #749 on: June 21, 2017, 03:35:02 pm »
It is amazing that anyone could take even a passing look at Trump and see a reformer rather than a grifter.  Here's how his "reforms" work:

President Trump’s budget calls for sharply reducing funding for programs that shelter the poor and combat homelessness — with a notable exception: It leaves intact a type of federal housing subsidy that is paid directly to private landlords.

One of those landlords is Trump himself, who earns millions of dollars each year as a part-owner of Starrett City, the nation’s largest subsidized housing complex.
***
Trump once called Starrett City “one of the best investments I ever made,” but it was his father who was an investor in its construction, according to a representative of Starrett City.


I totally get the "throw out the bums" mentality, but generally the next step is not to replace them with a bigger bum.  None of Trump's proposed policies make government more transparent or accountable.  The unifying theme to them, whether it be healthcare/taxes, the budget, the Muslim ban, the massive deportations, are cruelty to those without with a massive transfer of wealth to the pockets of the ultra-rich.   

There are so many, but one of the most galling to me is the continuation, after the election of "Invest in my business for 500K, and I'll give you a Visa."  As of the date of this article, the "family" had already raised 50 mil for Trump branded properties.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-a-beijing-ballroom-kushner-family-flogs-500000-investor-visa-to-wealthy-chinese/2017/05/06/cf711e53-eb49-4f9a-8dea-3cd836fcf287_story.html?utm_term=.9c30ac75af3b

The poster child of naked corruption.  I know it involves many more scumbags than Trump, but the idea that Trump supporters characterize him as draining the swamp is so fucking weak.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #750 on: June 21, 2017, 05:53:44 pm »
I think for a lot of drain the swamp types 'reform' to them simply signifies 'not Hillary.'

This administration can sell the nation (and its pride) to for-profit prisons, predatory student loan jackals and their for-profit charter school charlatans, to the cronies who'll take huge subsidies and build toll roads, to Russian steel companies and to Rosneft, to select, despicable Middle Eastern kleptocracies, to Glaxo, Merck and Pfizer, and these idiots will not stir at all so long as Trump continues to succeed at not being Hillary.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #751 on: June 21, 2017, 06:41:56 pm »
There are so many, but one of the most galling to me is the continuation, after the election of "Invest in my business for 500K, and I'll give you a Visa."  As of the date of this article, the "family" had already raised 50 mil for Trump branded properties.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-a-beijing-ballroom-kushner-family-flogs-500000-investor-visa-to-wealthy-chinese/2017/05/06/cf711e53-eb49-4f9a-8dea-3cd836fcf287_story.html?utm_term=.9c30ac75af3b

The poster child of naked corruption.  I know it involves many more scumbags than Trump, but the idea that Trump supporters characterize him as draining the swamp is so fucking weak.

Mueller is also now looking into Trump's dodgy financial dealings, specifically possible involvement in Russian money laundering.  I mean, it's not like it's hard to find - Trump bought a Florida ego palace for $40mm, did nothing to it, and one of Putin's best bud's bought it a couple of years later for $100mm.  He never saw it in person, never moved in and it's since been demolished.

People buy property using LLCs for a variety of legitimate reasons; one of the effects of this, though, is to shield the identity of the purchaser from the public.  In 2015, 4% of the Trump Organization's property sales were to LLCs; in 2016...70%.  Maybe people didn't want to be seen doing business with a walking bag of garbage like Trump, or...

Anyhoo, this element of the investigation is very interesting.  Mueller has been adding money-laundering experts and Russian-speaking bankers to his team.  This puts in peril not just Trump, but his whole grifter gang including Ivanka, Jared and Jr.  Meanwhile, Eric's charity is being looked at for skimming money from kids with cancer.

Once anyone starts digging here, they're going to unearth a bottomless pit of shit.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 07:06:20 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #752 on: June 22, 2017, 07:50:35 am »
Where are you getting your info?  Last I read Ossoff got 48.1%, compared to Clinton's 46.8%.  The Dem challenger got 38.3% last November.  Obama got 37.5% in 2012.  Both sides will spin it how they will...the Republicans will say "see, we still won", Democrats will say "we came damn close to winning a seat that seven months ago was impossible".  Trump will continue to be Trump and America will continue to lose.
To dig this up from yesterday—I referred to the R minus D margin, which was closer in the '16 presidential race than it was in round 2 of the special. Clinton and Trump had a lower combined percentage due to the third party vote share.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #753 on: June 22, 2017, 08:52:26 am »
Trump suggests creating law enacted in 1996.  The statement was in his teleprompter text - not off the cuff.  This, after claiming credit for building the Panama Canal.  What's next, claiming that signature isn't actually John Hancock's but Donald J. Trump?

Also, at the same campaign rally (seriously, a campaign rally) he was cheered by the drain the swamp crowd for not wanting poor people running the economy; only the rich can do it.  Their minds must be twisted like a pair of Apple earbuds that have been in your pocket for 0.02 seconds.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 08:57:30 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #754 on: June 22, 2017, 02:37:20 pm »
Trump has tweeted today that he doesn't have any tapes of his meetings with Comey.  So, ignoring the reality show bullshit stringing along, how is the original threat - that he might have tapes of those meetings so COmey should be careful what he says - not an effort at witness intimidation?  I.e. obstruction of justice?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #755 on: June 22, 2017, 02:52:32 pm »
What's a little witness tampering among friends?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #756 on: June 22, 2017, 03:33:10 pm »
C'mon guys.  He's new at this.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #757 on: June 22, 2017, 03:44:25 pm »
C'mon guys.  He's new at this.

Well, sure. If you want the leadership of a visionary reformist you're goimg to get a few of these hiccups. I just breathe a sigh of relief knowing he's surrounded himself with top-flight policy experts.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #758 on: June 22, 2017, 03:47:42 pm »
Well, sure. If you want the leadership of a visionary reformist you're goimg to get a few of these hiccups. I just breathe a sigh of relief knowing he's surrounded himself with top-flight policy experts.


OK, this does it!  At the weekend...you'll never believe this...I can't believe this...unconscionable doesn't come close to describing it...

He drove his golf cart over a green.

LOCK HIM UP!  LOCK HIM UP!  LOCK HIM UP!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #759 on: June 22, 2017, 03:48:06 pm »
There are certain privileges to being POTUS
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #760 on: June 22, 2017, 03:48:33 pm »

OK, this does it!  At the weekend...you'll never believe this...I can't believe this...unconscionable doesn't come close to describing it...

He drove his golf cart over a green.

LOCK HIM UP!  LOCK HIM UP!  LOCK HIM UP!

screw you, that's creating jobs.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #761 on: June 22, 2017, 04:35:13 pm »
screw you, that's creating jobs.

Only for Mexicans.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #762 on: June 22, 2017, 04:40:12 pm »
Only for Mexicans.

Now, I'm sure that all of the groundskeepers and dishwashers at his golf properties are fully documented US Americans.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #763 on: June 22, 2017, 04:47:28 pm »
Now, I'm sure that all of the groundskeepers and dishwashers at his golf properties are fully documented US Americans.

Not so much at Mar-a-Lugey.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #764 on: June 22, 2017, 04:51:44 pm »
Only for Mexicans.

they won't be taking the other better jobs!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #765 on: June 22, 2017, 04:52:23 pm »
Not so much at Mar-a-Lugey.

Nor at the demolition of the structure that pre-dated Trump Tower.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #767 on: June 23, 2017, 06:16:02 pm »
Every single lie by the Orange One since being elected.

Seems like tremendous hubris, doesn't it, to proclaim that they have listed all of them?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #768 on: June 26, 2017, 11:08:20 am »
Trump's been tweeting himself into trouble again.  Having consistently denied that the Russian hack of the election never took place - maybe it was some 400lb guy in his parents' basement - Trump tweeted over the weekend that Obama knew about the Russian hack and did nothing, so he should be investigated, not "T".

Let's just drive right past the bit where he's now referring to himself in the third person simply as an initial, and enjoy the fact that he's just confirmed that he believes the Russians hacked the election.  This is a topic about which he, and his administration, have declined to be curious since day one.  As he now believes it to be real, shouldn't he start looking into that so that it doesn't happen again next time?  Maybe the Russians won't want him back in 2020...

In other news, it looks like the Gorsuch vote on SCOTUS is going to get Trump his 90-day travel ban; parts of it, anyway.  Interestingly, he wanted that 90-day travel ban so that they could "figure out what's going on".  He first tried to institute his 90-day ban on January 27; i.e. 150 days ago.  Presuming that the "figuring out of what's going on" has been going on in the meantime regardless of the ban, shouldn't it be irrelevant by now?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #769 on: June 26, 2017, 11:15:57 am »
At least they've made a priority of staffing up the State Department with top people to figure out what's going on.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #770 on: June 26, 2017, 04:35:23 pm »
The CBO score on the Senate's tax cut healthcare bill is in, and it's appalling.  They project that it will kick 18 million off health insurance in 2018 and 22 million by 2026.  Oh, and just because the bill wasn't "mean" enough, the GOP's death panel healthcare team have added a poison pill that if you drop insurance for 60+ days, you have to wait 6 months before getting back on.

Meanwhile, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has calculated that the tax savings for the richest 400 families is the equivalent of the cost of Medicaid for 750,000 people.

This is torches a pitchforks stuff, folks.  I saw a clip of one person speaking at a Senator's town hall where they said that the battle was no longer between left and right, but between top and bottom.  He was optimistic, because he had 300 million people on his side; sadly, I don't think he's correct there.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #771 on: June 27, 2017, 09:21:25 am »
At 10pm EDT last night, Spicer dropped a playground threat on Syria who he claims is planning another chemical attack.  News agencies have been trying to source confirmation for this intel but no one outside (and many inside) the White House have no idea what he's talking about.  Usually, such overt threats are at least discussed across the various services because they're the ones in harms way.

So, this means:
(1)  It's bullshit sabre-rattling to distract from any one of a hundred things; or
(b)  It's real, but this administration is too incompetent to coordinate this correctly with those who need to be looped in.

I'm not sure which one is more scary.

Oh, and Jared's lawyered up while one of Trump's Keystone Kop lawyers has been caught driving charitable donations into his own firms coffers (Eric would be proud).  Plus, I got an offer on Facebook this morning to buy a photo of the President that has been signed by the orange one himself.  I may need to watch Idiocracy to get some sense of reality.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #772 on: June 27, 2017, 03:26:48 pm »
TrumpCare vote delayed.  Too many vulnerable Republican senators up in 2018 and in fear of their jobs.  God love 'em!

I guess this means the air strike against Syria is postponed too.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 04:06:52 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #773 on: June 28, 2017, 08:55:12 am »
Paul Manafort - Trump's campaign chairman during the crucial period running up to and including the RNC convention - just filed retroactively as a foreign agent.  He's the second senior Trumpster to do this; the other being Flynn.  In 2012 - 2014, Manafort worked as an agent of the since-ousted, Putin-puppet, dictator of Ukraine: Viktor Yanukovych.

Seriously, has anything like this ever happened before?  All these people surrounding Trump with ties to Russia that they fail to disclose until they get found out and then they say "oh yeah, well I admit that."  Flynn, Manafort, Sessions, Kushner.

On his security disclosures, first Son-in-Law Jared: failed to declare $100 million he has in accounts in the Caribbean; failed to mention meetings with Russian officials, including those from VEB which isn't a bank but a thinly disguised money vehicle for Putin; and just this week we found out that he failed to disclose a loan from the up-to-its-neck-in-Russian-money-laundering Deutsche Bank.  That would be a loan he took out late last year...for $285 meeeelion...that he had to personally guarantee.  How does that slip your mind? 

Deutsche Bank is the largest (known) lender to the Trump organization too.  Even Trump's bank is balls deep in the Russia scandal.

Back to Manafort.  When Yanukovych was deposed, the Ukrainians were very respectful of the property that Viktor left behind as he fled into the protective arms of Putin.  Very sensibly, they preserved all documents they found in his dictator-Neverland (are all these guys somehow related to Liberace?).  Part of that cache was a ledger in which meticulous handwritten accounts had been kept of cash payments made to numerous individuals.  Manafort's name was in there multiple times as having received payments totalling $12.7 million.

This is not normal.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #774 on: June 30, 2017, 08:46:26 am »
Smoking gun?  Getting closer to it, at least.

The Murdoch Street Journal reports that a GOP opposition researcher, reporting to Mike Flynn, worked with Russian hackers to try and recover the deleted Clinton emails.

That link requires an honorarium to Murdoch to read it, but here's an article about the article from NY Magazine.

Quote from: NW Mag
One of the oddities of the investigation into Donald Trump’s relations with Russia is the degree to which he has largely enjoyed a presumption of innocence in the court of public opinion....That line of defense is likely to disappear now that The Wall Street Journal has reported that Peter Smith, a Republican opposition researcher who said he was working for Michael Flynn, colluded with Russian hackers to try to obtain stolen emails from Hillary Clinton.

The Trump team's defense is that Smith didn't work for the campaign and, though Flynn did, he must've been doing this on his own time.  They also asked if we'd like to buy a bridge.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 08:49:56 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #775 on: June 30, 2017, 09:36:40 am »
Smoking gun?  Getting closer to it, at least.

The Murdoch Street Journal reports that a GOP opposition researcher, reporting to Mike Flynn, worked with Russian hackers to try and recover the deleted Clinton emails.

That link requires an honorarium to Murdoch to read it, but here's an article about the article from NY Magazine.

The Trump team's defense is that Smith didn't work for the campaign and, though Flynn did, he must've been doing this on his own time.  They also asked if we'd like to buy a bridge.

It's hard enough to distance the campaign from Flynn, who was obviously an important adviser to Trump (to the point that Trump fired Comey in an effort to protect Flynn), but candidate Trump literally asked for this to happen on camera:

“I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” the Republican nominee said at a news conference in Florida. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #776 on: June 30, 2017, 09:58:44 am »
It's hard enough to distance the campaign from Flynn, who was obviously an important adviser to Trump (to the point that Trump fired Comey in an effort to protect Flynn), but candidate Trump literally asked for this to happen on camera:

“I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” the Republican nominee said at a news conference in Florida. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”


Rewarded by "our press", or by "our Pres."?

The funny thing is, Trump has a long and storied history of reneging on deals and promises.  If Russia thought he'd actually follow through on what they wanted, they were a little naive.  Right now, he's struggling even to give them back the spy compounds residences that Obama took away as part of the punishment for hacking, let alone relaxing the sanctions over the invasion of Ukraine.

Republicans in Congress appear to be done with him after he proved to be no use to anyone over the healthcare debacle.  He's poisoning the brand and is completely ineffectual as a leader.  It won't be long before they turn on him because his only use will be as a scapegoat.  Same, with Russia; they'll torch him once they're sure he cannot be of use, just to fuck with us (which was the point in the first place).  You know what that means... PeeTape-a-Lago!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #777 on: June 30, 2017, 11:47:41 am »

Republicans in Congress appear to be done with him after he proved to be no use to anyone over the healthcare debacle.  He's poisoning the brand and is completely ineffectual as a leader.  It won't be long before they turn on him because his only use will be as a scapegoat. 

The unanimous vote in the appropriations committee yesterday approving Barbara Lee's annual and heretofore perfunctory amendment ending the blank check authorization for the use of military force giving the president near-blanket authority to deploy the military following 9/11 is a pretty strong sign that Republican legislators are at least interested in limiting some of Trump's authority.  I doubt it will ever actually get anywhere, but it's a rare sign of backbone and basic legislative oversight. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #778 on: July 01, 2017, 01:18:14 pm »
Republicans in Congress appear to be done with him after he proved to be no use to anyone over the healthcare debacle.  He's poisoning the brand and is completely ineffectual as a leader.  It won't be long before they turn on him because his only use will be as a scapegoat.  Same, with Russia; they'll torch him once they're sure he cannot be of use, just to fuck with us (which was the point in the first place).  You know what that means... PeeTape-a-Lago!

There are plenty of people out there who disapprove of the Republicans in Congress but are giving Trump a pass.  My aunt, for instance, thinks congressional Republicans have betrayed her and are now too liberal to pass a health care bill she'd be proud of, but she's not worried because she's confident that "Trump will fix it".  The cognitive dissonance is strong with them.  (This is the part where I mention my aunt is Type I diabetic and quite literally would not have survived the last 25 years without Medicaid and later Medicare.)

The damage to the brand may already be done.  The GOP has really painted themselves into a corner, and they may be past the point where turning on Trump could benefit them.  From here on out it may very well be a zero-sum game (or worse) with their supporters.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #779 on: July 01, 2017, 04:55:29 pm »
The damage to the brand may already be done.  The GOP has really painted themselves into a corner, and they may be past the point where turning on Trump could benefit them.  From here on out it may very well be a zero-sum game (or worse) with their supporters.

No way. None of those folks think that *their* guy sucks. It's all of the *other* Congress-critters who suck. Consequently, all of those guys will keep coming back.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #780 on: July 05, 2017, 08:33:28 am »
Smoking gun?  Getting closer to it, at least.

The Murdoch Street Journal reports that a GOP opposition researcher, reporting to Mike Flynn, worked with Russian hackers to try and recover the deleted Clinton emails.

That link requires an honorarium to Murdoch to read it, but here's an article about the article from NY Magazine.

The Trump team's defense is that Smith didn't work for the campaign and, though Flynn did, he must've been doing this on his own time.  They also asked if we'd like to buy a bridge.

The Washington Post picked up this ball and ran with it.  In an article (behind a pay-wall), the Post reports that recently deceased Republican operative Peter Smith - who was working with Russian hackers to resurrect the 30,000 deleted Clinton emails - had another string to his bow.  He had a file in which he detailed contacts with representatives of the Trump Campaign; the file was clandestinely named "Trump Campaign".

The Trump Campaign staffers appearing in the file include Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, Sam Clovis (a policy adviser to the Trump campaign and now a senior adviser at the Agriculture Department) and, of course, retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn.  So now we have a connection from Russian hackers, through Peter Smith, right up to the people sitting right next to Trump...sometimes with their feet on the furniture.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #782 on: July 05, 2017, 10:17:23 am »
Declaration of Independence, NPR, and Twitter

That's awesome...literally.  I am in awe of these snowflake reactionaries and their ability to hold multiple competing beliefs in their heads at the same time.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #783 on: July 05, 2017, 10:29:53 am »
That's awesome...literally.  I am in awe of these snowflake reactionaries and their ability to hold multiple competing beliefs in their heads at the same time.

When the Declaration of Independence reads like a direct commentary on your guy, perhaps it's time to re-examine your guy. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #784 on: July 06, 2017, 08:29:44 am »
Trump is in Poland - another country with a right-wing nationalist government installed, in part, with the help of Russian interference in an election.  Apparently, he feels at home because he thought it appropriate - in a foreign venue - to deny the Russian hacking of our election, shit all over the US intelligence agencies for getting this - and WMDs in Iraq - wrong.  At the same time, he criticized Obama for not doing anything about the election hacking.

Ignoring the fact that the mouth-breathing caucus of the Republican Party owes the Dixie Chicks a giant apology (once they're done with lynching NPR for tweeting the Declaration of Independence on July 4th)...WTF?

I actually agree that Obama deserves criticism for not outing the Russian hacking before the election.  He kept quiet because (a) he didn't want to appear partisan; and (2) because Mitch McTurtle threatened to scream bloody murder if Obama whispered a word about it.  I'm sure everyone was of the notion that Clinton would win and so there'd be no harm/foul, but now we're here.  President Walkabout (seriously, it's getting bad, remember when he couldn't find Rudy Giuliani who was sitting directly across the table from him?) is defending Russia against our intel services and former President, while contradicting himself over that very subject.  How does nobody see this?  I feel like I've taken crazy pills!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #785 on: July 06, 2017, 08:46:43 am »
How does nobody see this?  I feel like I've taken crazy pills!

Sometimes I feel like I'm in an episode of The Munsters, and I'm Marilyn, the normal one.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #786 on: July 06, 2017, 08:58:56 am »
How does nobody see this?  I feel like I've taken crazy pills!

Seriously, people see it but many think the "white man" has been put at a disadvantage because people tried to level the playing field.  You may be surprised at how many white males will say how hard it is to get a job, because of companies trying to diversify.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #787 on: July 06, 2017, 09:01:04 am »
It is maddening.  The Russians weren't involved and Obama is a pussy for not addressing the Russian involvement.  Queue the raucous applause from his supporters.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #788 on: July 06, 2017, 09:04:00 am »
Seriously, people see it but many think the "white man" has been put at a disadvantage because people tried to level the playing field.  You may be surprised at how many white males will say how hard it is to get a job, because of companies trying to diversify.

I've seen this in a number of people.  Most are friends, and gigantic snowflakes.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #789 on: July 06, 2017, 09:06:03 am »
Sometimes I feel like I'm in an episode of The Munsters, and I'm Marilyn, the normal one.

When all of our political infrastructure is currently predicated on catering to the fringes of their particular constituencies the 90% of us in the middle are going to feel disenfranchised and bewildered.  Also, you'd look hot in a Pat Priest blonde wig and a baby-doll dress.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #790 on: July 06, 2017, 09:06:57 am »
When all of our political infrastructure is currently predicated on catering to the fringes of their particular constituencies the 90% of us in the middle are going to feel disenfranchised and bewildered.  Also, you'd look hot in a Pat Priest blonde wig and a baby-doll dress.

Don't do that.  I look good in baby-doll dresses and you are ruining them.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #791 on: July 06, 2017, 09:09:20 am »
Don't do that.  I look good in baby-doll dresses and you are ruining them.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #792 on: July 06, 2017, 09:18:38 am »
Matt, like all catchers, have fantastic calves.

I once won a "best legs" contest in college. 

Now on behalf of everyone...something no one would ever thought they'd hear...can we please get back to the political rants.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #793 on: July 06, 2017, 09:52:26 am »
When all of our political infrastructure is currently predicated on catering to the fringes of their particular constituencies the 90% of us in the middle are going to feel disenfranchised and bewildered.

I've come to the conclusion that if I could change one thing in politics, it would be requiring all states to draw district lines (for state and national legislative seats) according to a computer program that sets equal population with the minimum length of boundary lines.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #794 on: July 06, 2017, 09:54:29 am »
Seriously, people see it but many think the "white man" has been put at a disadvantage because people tried to level the playing field.  You may be surprised at how many white males will say how hard it is to get a job, because of companies trying to diversify.

Mrs Limey belongs to a couple of women's business groups (currently President of NAWBO in Houston), and feels oddly guilty about supporting other women's businesses over businesses in general.  I explain to her every time that white men have been propping up each other in the workplace for centuries, specifically to the exclusion of women and minorities, so a little payback is due.  She used to work in oil & gas where she was given the biggest role in her department, and a corner office in which to do it, but was denied the title and pay rise that went with the job.  She had to report to a fleet of useless "managers"; white men all.

Here's Louis CK's classic take on white male privilege (very NSFW).
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #795 on: July 06, 2017, 10:13:13 am »
I've seen this in a number of people.  Most are friends, and gigantic snowflakes.

The right-wing noise machine is 99% projection.

Just think about the bleating and carping about how "Obamacare" was forced through in the dead of night...after 14 months of debate; numerous, raucous town halls; weeks of hearings; hundreds of amendments considered from Republicans (many of which were taken up); and passing the 60-vote threshold in the Senate.  Those same complainants just forced through the House their "please don't call it 'Trumpcare'" bill, without any debate, any hearings or even waiting for the CBO score.  The Senate effort never came up for a vote, but it bypassed the committee process, would've been brought to vote without debate/hearings/amendments and was designed to be passed by only 50 votes.  After that, the plan was to skip the reconciliation process and have the House vote on the Senate bill as is, to be signed into law in a flourish by Trump.

And that's how it is on something serious.  There's also Newton's Trump's First Law which states that "for every tweet, there is an equal and opposite tweet sometime in the past".  Many are presciently specific.

OK.  100% projection.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 10:31:08 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #796 on: July 06, 2017, 10:14:51 am »
I've come to the conclusion that if I could change one thing in politics, it would be requiring all states to draw district lines (for state and national legislative seats) according to a computer program that sets equal population with the minimum length of boundary lines.


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I've seen some pretty persuasive evidence that this action wouldn't move the needle very much owing to the "self-sorting" Americans have been doing over the past couple decades. Thus the sociocultural split between, as the magnificent essayist and cartoonist Tim Kreider put it, the "Got-outs" vs. the "Stayed put."

Gerrymandering for ideological parity would require shapes just as fucked up as they are now. 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #797 on: July 06, 2017, 10:28:44 am »
I've come to the conclusion that if I could change one thing in politics, it would be requiring all states to draw district lines (for state and national legislative seats) according to a computer program that sets equal population with the minimum length of boundary lines.

Gerrymandering is the Kevin Bacon of politics: you can trace every problem back to it within 6 moves...usually only 1.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #798 on: July 06, 2017, 10:38:09 am »
I've seen some pretty persuasive evidence that this action wouldn't move the needle very much owing to the "self-sorting" Americans have been doing over the past couple decades. Thus the sociocultural split between, as the magnificent essayist and cartoonist Tim Kreider put it, the "Got-outs" vs. the "Stayed put."

Gerrymandering for ideological parity would require shapes just as fucked up as they are now.

It's not about ideological anything; it's about forming districts that make geographical sense, and letting the ideology fall where it may.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #799 on: July 06, 2017, 10:51:55 am »
I've seen some pretty persuasive evidence that this action wouldn't move the needle very much owing to the "self-sorting" Americans have been doing over the past couple decades. Thus the sociocultural split between, as the magnificent essayist and cartoonist Tim Kreider put it, the "Got-outs" vs. the "Stayed put."

Gerrymandering for ideological parity would require shapes just as fucked up as they are now.

I haven't seen any studies on this (I'll look, and if you have links to anything feel free to share), but I have a hard time believing that what MM proposes via the shortest possible lines to achieve populational balance or literally just lines drawn at random would not be a significant improvement over the current Republican construction which is clearly meant to disenfranchise as many urban voters as possible.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #800 on: July 06, 2017, 10:52:25 am »
It's not about ideological anything; it's about forming districts that make geographical sense, and letting the ideology fall where it may.

Except that blues congregate in cities, and reds sprawl. "[L]etting the ideology fall where it may" is insufficient to the task of making legislatures more representative if ideology falls unevenly.

Unless--I see this now--as per MusicMan's suggestion, an urban center contained, say, five districts to the one rural district of equal population. Yes, that does make sense. I'm for it. Where do I sign?

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #801 on: July 06, 2017, 11:01:37 am »
Except that blues congregate in cities, and reds sprawl. "[L]etting the ideology fall where it may" is insufficient to the task of making legislatures more representative if ideology falls unevenly.

Unless--I see this now--as per MusicMan's suggestion, an urban center contained, say, five districts to the one rural district of equal population. Yes, that does make sense. I'm for it. Where do I sign?

Blue cities are surrounded by red suburbs; rural districts with their sparse populations really don't tilt the scale.  Montana has two Senators but a single House seat.  It's when gerrymandering dilutes blue voters by creating blue vote "ghettos" while spreading the red votes around that we end up with what we have.

I live in Montrose, and my Congressman is Ted Fucking Poe.  Here's a map of his district.  It's the perfect example of taking a concentrated slice of blue votes and burying them in a wraparound of suburban red votes.  I do not see how any non-partisan redistricting would create something as fucked up as this.  I'm not sure Poe has even come inside the loop in a decade - he can just ignore all his urban constituents because we carry no weight.  Representative democracy?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #802 on: July 06, 2017, 11:25:45 am »
Unless--I see this now--as per MusicMan's suggestion, an urban center contained, say, five districts to the one rural district of equal population. Yes, that does make sense. I'm for it. Where do I sign?

It would have to be based on an equal population per district.  People vote and are represented by government in a democracy, not acreage.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #803 on: July 06, 2017, 11:32:18 am »
Yes, I understood that--just didn't word it well. Each of the five urban districts (in my example) would be equal in population to the one rural.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #804 on: July 06, 2017, 11:33:03 am »
Blue cities are surrounded by red suburbs; rural districts with their sparse populations really don't tilt the scale.  Montana has two Senators but a single House seat.  It's when gerrymandering dilutes blue voters by creating blue vote "ghettos" while spreading the red votes around that we end up with what we have.

I live in Montrose, and my Congressman is Ted Fucking Poe.  Here's a map of his district.  It's the perfect example of taking a concentrated slice of blue votes and burying them in a wraparound of suburban red votes.  I do not see how any non-partisan redistricting would create something as fucked up as this.  I'm not sure Poe has even come inside the loop in a decade - he can just ignore all his urban constituents because we carry no weight.  Representative democracy?

SJL doesn't want you messing with this.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #805 on: July 06, 2017, 11:40:44 am »
Yes, I understood that--just didn't word it well. Each of the five urban districts (in my example) would be equal in population to the one rural.

Here's what happened in Minnesota, when the courts stepped in to resolve an argument that partisan politicians couldn't.  They redrew the districts purely based on geography, to create 8 districts of equal population.

Interestingly, Clinton carried the state by 1.5%, but Republicans took 5 of the 8 Congressional seats.  However, the underlying benefit is that most of the races in the state were competitive, meaning that more moderate candidates (of either stripe) will be the product of these elections.  This is far more preferable - and representative - than having ever-more partisan and ideologically pure candidates who are more endangered by a primary challenge from their outside than they are by their opposite number.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #806 on: July 06, 2017, 11:47:39 am »
Blue cities are surrounded by red suburbs; rural districts with their sparse populations really don't tilt the scale.  Montana has two Senators but a single House seat.  It's when gerrymandering dilutes blue voters by creating blue vote "ghettos" while spreading the red votes around that we end up with what we have.

I live in Montrose, and my Congressman is Ted Fucking Poe.  Here's a map of his district.  It's the perfect example of taking a concentrated slice of blue votes and burying them in a wraparound of suburban red votes.  I do not see how any non-partisan redistricting would create something as fucked up as this.  I'm not sure Poe has even come inside the loop in a decade - he can just ignore all his urban constituents because we carry no weight.  Representative democracy?

Same situation here. The bulk of Asheville's population (among the bluest in all the land) is represented by Patrick McHenry. The map looks a little like a cartoon dog farting, with our town in the choice location you'd expect from such an arrangement (https://mchenry.house.gov/district/map.htm). Asheville comprises the single largest population center in his district, but we never see him. He doesn't even have an office here.

Like the man said: ratfucked.

I'm cautiously optimistic that the case the Supremes are taking up next year will improve things a bit.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #807 on: July 06, 2017, 11:51:36 am »
Same situation here. The bulk of Asheville's population (among the bluest in all the land) is represented by Patrick McHenry. The map looks a little like a cartoon dog farting, with our town in the choice location you'd expect from such an arrangement (https://mchenry.house.gov/district/map.htm). Asheville comprises the single largest population center in his district, but we never see him. He doesn't even have an office here.

Like the man said: ratfucked.

I'm cautiously optimistic that the case the Supremes are taking up next year will improve things a bit.

I'd say "don't hold your breath" but, given your location, that might be advisable.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #808 on: July 06, 2017, 12:00:51 pm »
In non-gerrymandering news, Rick Perry announced at a coal plant that we need to increase the coal supply, because that creates increased demand.

This man is so stupid that I won't even hold A&M responsible for him.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #809 on: July 06, 2017, 12:13:59 pm »
I'm cautiously optimistic that the case the Supremes are taking up next year will improve things a bit.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #810 on: July 06, 2017, 12:29:38 pm »
AHHHHH HAHAHAHAHA HAAAA AHHHHH HAHAHAHA HAHA.

HA. ha.

If it came down to a neat divide, there's a non-zero chance that the new metric for wasted votes could sway Kennedy.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #811 on: July 06, 2017, 12:34:06 pm »

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #812 on: July 06, 2017, 12:50:45 pm »
If it came down to a neat divide, there's a non-zero chance that the new metric for wasted votes could sway Kennedy.
I think the absolute best case scenario is Kennedy kicks the can down the road again. But I'm not all that optimistic.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #814 on: July 06, 2017, 01:59:44 pm »
I think the absolute best case scenario is Kennedy kicks the can down the road again. But I'm not all that optimistic.

If Kennedy and/or Ginsberg can't hang on, then Trump gets to set the political agenda for a generation.  Still, there were emails...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #815 on: July 07, 2017, 11:07:36 am »
In non-gerrymandering news, Rick Perry announced at a coal plant that we need to increase the coal supply, because that creates increased demand.

This man is so stupid that I won't even hold A&M responsible for him.


He once said that a broken clock is right once a day...which is one time more than Perry.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #816 on: July 07, 2017, 12:28:54 pm »
Jess Dweck  @TheDweck 32m ago
I can't believe the President of the United States met for over two hours with Donald Trump.

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Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #817 on: July 07, 2017, 01:49:22 pm »
@ZeddRebel:

Putin insisted on watching the tape again with director's commentary on.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #818 on: July 07, 2017, 02:52:10 pm »
Trump just zoned out in public again.  He really is just a tired old man.  That's the wander off after coming down from AF1, the standing around on stage after his speech in Poland and today, he was asleep as all the leaders were asked to turn for a photo and he was the only one not aware of the move.  Teresa May had to poke him back into reality.

Remember when Hillary was too sick to be President and Jeb had low energy?  Projection.  See also, Little Marco and Lyin' Ted.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 02:55:38 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #819 on: July 07, 2017, 05:21:16 pm »
My guy Lloyd Dogget's current map is pretty fucked up but not as bad as his previous district map.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 05:25:43 pm by Sphinx Drummond »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #820 on: July 10, 2017, 08:37:09 am »
So Uday Butthead Don Jr. met with a Russian attorney with ties to the Kremlin to discuss Clinton's deleted emails.  This meeting also included Trump's campaign chairman and self-designated foreign agent Paul Manafort, along with Jared "I do everything" Kushner.  Ignoring the fact that this is yet another meeting that Kushner should have disclosed but failed to do so, Don Sr. has denied any knowledge of the meeting or of what was discussed.

By complete coincidence, Trump's first tweet after this meeting occurred referenced 33,000 deleted Clinton emails.  Also completely coincidentally, it was the first time Trump had ever mentioned the subject.  I'm sure that there's no "here" here, because Trump doesn't involve his family in his sacred duties of being the President.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #821 on: July 10, 2017, 09:03:43 am »
He gave up on the adoption story pretty quickly, and now is claiming that the Russian lady said that the Russians were financing the DNC (and that the Trump campaign did not find this interesting).  These guys are comically incompetent.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #822 on: July 10, 2017, 09:44:31 am »
He gave up on the adoption story pretty quickly, and now is claiming that the Russian lady said that the Russians were financing the DNC (and that the Trump campaign did not find this interesting).  These guys are comically incompetent.

Don Jr.'s denials basically confirmed the substance of the NYT story.  Also, because Manafort was there, the meeting may actually have been illegal under campaign laws; you can't solicit help from foreigners.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #823 on: July 10, 2017, 09:53:01 am »
Also, because Manafort was there, the meeting may actually have been illegal under campaign laws; you can't solicit help from foreigners.

Is that true?  What rule prohibits assistance from foreigners?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #824 on: July 10, 2017, 11:55:19 am »
Is that true?  What rule prohibits assistance from foreigners?

Here ya go, in all its legalese glory for you.

Quote
(b)  A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.
...

(g)  No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section.


I presume that the doubt around this is whether intel on Clinton counts as a "thing of value".  If it does then it's pretty clear that Trump Jr. was soliciting a thing of value from someone known to him to be a foreign national.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #825 on: July 10, 2017, 12:09:39 pm »
It is hopefully addressed by other statutes, but if one payed a foreign national for dirt on Clinton, is it no longer a contribution (which is apparently undefined) or a donation? 

 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #826 on: July 10, 2017, 01:58:58 pm »
It is hopefully addressed by other statutes, but if one payed a foreign national for dirt on Clinton, is it no longer a contribution (which is apparently undefined) or a donation?

The statute I linked seems to be clear that you can't ask for or be given stuff for free by foreigners.  I'm assuming that buying stuff is ok, because how would you differentiate buying opposition research from, say, paper clips or laptops?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #827 on: July 11, 2017, 08:33:20 am »
Aaaaand done.  The NYT reported last night that Trump Jr. had been told in an email - before taking the meeting with the Russian attorney offering dirt on Clinton - that the dirt was the product of a Russian government hacking operation.  And he still went.  And he took his brother-in-law and Trump campaign manager with him.

Quote from: NY Times
Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.

That, right there, is a smoking gun.

Let's not forget that the Trump campaign has denied and denied and denied, in the press, in security disclosures and under oath, that any meetings took place between the campaign and Russian officials.  That still-ongoing lie has been systematically torn apart over time, and as each layer of this stinking onion is peeled back, they admit to just that, and deny anything further.  Until the next layer is peeled back, and then they admit to just that.  Rinse.  Repeat.

Trump Jr., Kushner and Manafort are three of the highest ranking members of the Trump campaign.  As of yesterday, they had corroborated not only that this meeting took place, but also that it was taken with the expectation of being given some dirt on their general election opponent.  But now the Times has layered on the fact that they knew going in to that meeting that the dirt was the work product of a foreign government's hack attack.  That puts a whole nother sinister spin on it entirely.  They heard that the Russian government has been hacking into - perhaps - Secretary of State Clinton's infamous private email server, and their reaction was to immediately take a meeting to see if they could get their hands on it.

Today's spin from TrumpWorld is "where's the crime?"  Well, there's the violation of the election statute prohibiting receiving or soliciting "things of value" from foreign nationals - which they have already copped to by confirming they took the meeting specifically to get dirt on Clinton.  But the fact that they knew in advance that it was the Russian government dangling the carrots, I think this rises to the level of a criminal conspiracy.  All the hacking was illegal, and the Trumps got involved after the fact.  No wonder Mueller has added experts in RICO prosecutions to his team, because that is what this is now - a criminal enterprise.

Ranking Member Schiff added some chronological context to this last night.  The Russian hacks were mostly complete prior to the June meeting in question.  After the June meeting:
(1)  Trump tweets - for the first time - about the 33,000 deleted emails;
(b)  Trump openly calls for Russia to find and release those emails at a campaign rally;
(iii)  The Trump campaign demands (and gets) only one change to the GOP platform - the removal of language supporting sanctions against Russia over their invasion of Ukraine; and
(4)  Russia starts drip-feeding damaging information about Hillary Clinton.

I mean, it's almost as if they planned it or something.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #828 on: July 11, 2017, 08:40:09 am »
As of last night, Trump Jr. lawyered-up.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #829 on: July 11, 2017, 09:03:28 am »
People wishing to get Trump ousted, and there are many on both sides of the aisle, should not get caught up in whether each specific act is illegal or whether the whole enterprise is illegal.  Impeachment is political, not legal.  Therefore, IMO, they should focus on the idea that he was in cahoots with an enemy and most importantly, is now compromised by it.  That might be persuasive to some Republicanss that will be needed for impeachment.  Basically, they won't have to agree that Trump is a crook, they just have to agree that his presence as commander in chief is too risky for the nation.

Additionally, the NYT article on how Kushner and Bannon were planning, behinds the scenes, to use a Blackwater mercenary force for Afghanistan will further support this growing concern among Republicans.  K and B approached the generals last weekend with the idea, and it was promptly shot down and must have raised a few "What the fuck are these guys doing" questions.

So, while criminal prosecutions may or may not be in the Trump circle's future, the argument for his ouster should be placed elsewhere.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 09:07:42 am by jbm »

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #830 on: July 11, 2017, 09:29:34 am »
So, while criminal prosecutions may or may not be in the Trump circle's future, the argument for his ouster should be placed elsewhere.

Absolutely.  However, I have no faith at this point that a Republican-lead Congress will do anything other than stall and stammer on this.  Then, if ousted in 2018, they will scream 'PARTISANSHIP!" about any efforts to investigate or impeach anyone in the Trump administration.  And, even then, Trump can pre-pardon anyone he wants and President Pence can pre-pardon citizen Trump from any prosecutions to which he would then be open.

But, regarding 2018, let's not overlook the fact that we know that the Russians went after specific districts in specific states to try and derail voting in pivotal Democratic-leaning districts to suppress Clinton votes.  I think the combined margin of victory in the three crucial states of MI, PA, WI was about 70,000 so, with the electoral college still in place, it's not like they have to do much to tip the balance.  Of course, Trump's budget defunds entirely the federal department tasked with overseeing anti-hacking efforts in elections.  Trump's administration is doing nothing at all about discovering how the hacking was done and ensuring it won't happen in the future, and we now know that they're ok with colluding with Russians to help them win elections.  If 2018 is a clean election, I'll eat my hat.

So, something has to give here.  I just do not see how it gets done using the existing checks and balances.  Congress will protect this President, who in turn will make sure - by hook or by crook - that they keep their majority in the next mid-terms.  The Supreme Court will split 5/4 in favor of the administration in most cases, and have a insurmountable Republican-bias for decades if Kennedy and/or Ginsberg steps down.  Only the 4th estate is working to shin a light on this rock, but its reputation has being damaged by its own greed for ratings and by elected officials all happy to scream "Fake News!" at any damaging, factual, reports.

Is this how democracy dies?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #831 on: July 11, 2017, 10:04:03 am »
Is this how democracy dies?

I, for one, welcome our incompetent kleptocrat overlords.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #832 on: July 11, 2017, 10:16:17 am »
I, for one, welcome our incompetent kleptocrat overlords.

It's the blatant incompetency that's perhaps the most galling.  These are truly dumb people, and they're stealing our democracy in plain sight while brazenly enriching themselves in the process.

Putin is believed to be the richest person in the world, by no small margin.  Now, he is well on his way to adding the United States to his stable of riches; Trump being Loki to his Thanos.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #833 on: July 11, 2017, 10:17:23 am »
I... I just can't even put this into words. Donald Trump, Jr. posted the emails in question to Twitter.

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789839522140166/photo/1

Let's just point out the most relevant sentence:

Quote
This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #834 on: July 11, 2017, 10:26:00 am »
How dumb are they?  Trump Jr. just released what he claims to be the entire email exchange setting up the meeting with the Russian attorney.  Not only does it confirm the accuracy of the Times' reporting, It reads like a smoking machine gun.

I wonder who has jurisdiction here?  It happened in New York, so maybe the US Attorney for the Southern District... oh.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #835 on: July 11, 2017, 10:32:02 am »
All this makes me highly suspicious of a setup.  The brazen stupidity of Trump Jr. (even for him) and the fact that five administrative folks apparently ratted him out when they knew it would be huge.  Really, there are five people who both knew about this and are willing to throw Trump's son under the bus?

The setup might be Trump Jr. as the fall guy, trying to make it appear that he was the rogue guy on the inner circle.  Later, daddy will pardon him while saying that we just shouldn't be concerned about this any more.  You know, no need to relitigate this in Tillerson speak.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #836 on: July 11, 2017, 10:39:01 am »
All this makes me highly suspicious of a setup.  The brazen stupidity of Trump Jr. (even for him) and the fact that five administrative folks apparently ratted him out when they knew it would be huge.  Really, there are five people who both knew about this and are willing to throw Trump's son under the bus?

The setup might be Trump Jr. as the fall guy, trying to make it appear that he was the rogue guy on the inner circle.  Later, daddy will pardon him while saying that we just shouldn't be concerned about this any more.  You know, no need to relitigate this in Tillerson speak.


This would be the smart thing to do, knowing that the noose was tightening anyway.  It's a tried and trusted strategy - to self-leak damning evidence ahead of a more damning reveal - so as to lessen the impact of the full story.  For example, now, if anyone goes after Trump or his family / administration about Russia, they can say that they've come clean and everyone knows what it is.  It's a very effective smokescreen against all future revelations on this subject.

Or...Don Jr. could just be that fucking dumb.

Or both.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #837 on: July 11, 2017, 10:41:08 am »
Don Jr. makes Fredo look like Michael.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #838 on: July 11, 2017, 10:46:54 am »
Don Jr. makes Fredo look like Michael.

And Manafort is no Tom Hagen.

Meanwhile, Kushner risked his family's entire, considerable, wealth, on a single piece of real estate...in 2007.  This, after buying a newspaper in 2006.  I am thinking about offering him a bet on last night's HR Derby; he might just take it.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #839 on: July 11, 2017, 10:47:15 am »
Don Jr. makes Fredo look like Michael.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #840 on: July 11, 2017, 10:55:08 am »
Jr. forwarded the entire email string to Manafort and Kushner, including the attribution that they were meeting a "Russian government attorney".  So that's them fucked too, then.  Gone is any plausible deniability that they went into the meeting in ignorance of the subject matter to be discussed.

Also, just for what it's worth, this is yet another meeting with Russians that Kushner failed to disclose.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #841 on: July 11, 2017, 11:14:03 am »
Seeing commentary that Don Jr. released the email thread because the Times had it and said it was going to publish.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #842 on: July 11, 2017, 12:35:57 pm »
Putin is believed to be the richest person in the world, by no small margin.  Now, he is well on his way to adding the United States to his stable of riches; Trump being Loki to his Thanos.

Not too long ago I got an annoying, borderline offensive lowball offer on an apartment I'm selling in Colombia. The story that the agent told me about the buyer didn't make any sense to me and although on one hand it doesn't really matter who the buyer is I don't suppose, I'm an inquisitive sort of fellow. I did a little poking around and came to the conclusion that the actual buyer was Mariya Putin, Vladimir's elder daughter. Her husband/boyfriend of many years, a Dutch guy, was the person actually on the ground in Colombia at the time.

Now, why a family with untold billions of dollars is concerning itself shaving $50k or whatever it was off some jerky apartment in Medellin rather than negotiating to purchase the port of Cartagena, well, I have no idea. I happened to talk to the agent the other day and learned that they never did buy anything.

Who's leaking all of this recent stuff? Initially I assumed it was Kushner but I've had a chance to rethink that and now I'm not so sure.

The only thing that is truly surprising to me in all this is that DJ apparently knows how to use email. I assumed he'd honor the grand Trump tradition of scribbling on a printed copy of a message with a colored marker and having that document faxed back to the sender. It's good to see him blaze new trails.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #843 on: July 11, 2017, 01:04:40 pm »
Not too long ago I got an annoying, borderline offensive lowball offer on an apartment I'm selling in Colombia. The story that the agent told me about the buyer didn't make any sense to me and although on one hand it doesn't really matter who the buyer is I don't suppose, I'm an inquisitive sort of fellow. I did a little poking around and came to the conclusion that the actual buyer was Mariya Putin, Vladimir's elder daughter. Her husband/boyfriend of many years, a Dutch guy, was the person actually on the ground in Colombia at the time.

Now, why a family with untold billions of dollars is concerning itself shaving $50k or whatever it was off some jerky apartment in Medellin rather than negotiating to purchase the port of Cartagena, well, I have no idea. I happened to talk to the agent the other day and learned that they never did buy anything.

The Russian oligarchs use property to stash wealth and/or launder money.  Maybe they found a better vehicle elsewhere.


Who's leaking all of this recent stuff? Initially I assumed it was Kushner but I've had a chance to rethink that and now I'm not so sure.

I have a theory (that is mine).  Trump, other than taking a wrecking ball to the U.S' position as a world leader, has delivered almost nothing of value to the Russians.  He hasn't lifted a single sanction and, with the scrutiny on him at an excruciating level, he's very unlikely to get anything done in the short term.  Now, from my extensive experience of the mob - from movies and TV - they really don't care that it's going to fuck you over to do their bidding.  So, maybe this whole Don Jr. mess is a shot across Sr's bows.


The only thing that is truly surprising to me in all this is that DJ apparently knows how to use email. I assumed he'd honor the grand Trump tradition of scribbling on a printed copy of a message with a colored marker and having that document faxed back to the sender. It's good to see him blaze new trails.

I found it amusing that, in 2017, someone is still using the ">" to designate forwarded text.  Anyway, Trump Sr. will let you have his ancient Android phone when you can pry it out of his tiny, dead hands.  It's safe to assume that he's, at best, no more tech savvy than the level of competence demonstrated by Jr in this published exchange.  So, there's no way the Russians don't have hard copy evidence of Sr's complicity and/or collusion.

First, Jr. gets whacked.  Who's next, Jared?  Then Ivanka? That would be the progression of affection in the Trump family.  When that fails...it's peepee time.  The Russians will burn down the whole family and its administration by the time this is over.

Meanwhile, Vice-President Pence's on the record comment about all this is that he wasn't involved because it was before he joined the campaign.  That's damning with no praise whatsoever.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 01:12:30 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #844 on: July 11, 2017, 01:13:52 pm »
One other tidbit:  Trump Sr. was in the building the day of the meeting.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #845 on: July 11, 2017, 01:18:19 pm »
Think about this:  he fired Comey because "this whole Russia thing, with Trump-Russia, is fake news."  It was Kushner who strongly pushed for Trump to fire Comey.  Kushner was on the emails and in the meeting when Russia's assistance to the Trump campaign was raised.  So Kushner knew it wasn't fake; which means he either lied to his boss/father-in-law or his boss/father-in-law knew it was real and the "fake news" is (gasp) an attempt at laying down smoke.

Either way, how is Kushner still allowed with 100 yards of the White House or a Chuckie Cheese?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #846 on: July 11, 2017, 01:22:14 pm »
> One other tidbit:  Trump Sr. was in the building the day of the meeting.

The following day saw his first tweet regarding the Clinton email server.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #847 on: July 11, 2017, 01:25:14 pm »
> One other tidbit:  Trump Sr. was in the building the day of the meeting.

The following day saw his first tweet regarding the Clinton email server.

ISWYDT

Exactly.  The timeline of events subsequent to this meeting - the initiation of the tweets and stumping about Clinton's emails; the single, Russia-friendly change to the GOP platform; and the beginning of the drip feed of damaging information about Team Clinton from Russia - is incredibly damning.  In the emails we've seen, Trump Jr. expresses glee at the potential for dirt on Clinton and that he would love it if it came out, especially later in the summer - which it did.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 01:27:50 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #848 on: July 11, 2017, 02:10:07 pm »
Exactly.  The timeline of events subsequent to this meeting - the initiation of the tweets and stumping about Clinton's emails; the single, Russia-friendly change to the GOP platform; and the beginning of the drip feed of damaging information about Team Clinton from Russia - is incredibly damning.  In the emails we've seen, Trump Jr. expresses glee at the potential for dirt on Clinton and that he would love it if it came out, especially later in the summer - which it did.

Also, the FBI's investigation into these fuckwits began in June of 2016 or July at the latest, and I sort of doubt that the timing is coincidental. When a mobbed up Russian lawyer who's previously had her visa revoked swans into Trump Tower to meet directly with high level campaign staff and Trump family members to discuss potentially damning information on Clinton that the Russian government may wish to share with the Trump campaign in exchange for sanctions relief, all of which these geniuses have been freely discussing via MOTHERFUCKING EMAIL, I mean, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that someone at the FBI would get curious about just what the hell is going on.

You know, deep state and that.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #849 on: July 11, 2017, 02:52:24 pm »
Excellent - and scary - analysis:

Quote from: Vox
And so we are faced with a crisis that leaves vast swaths of American politics stained. The election is tainted. The White House is tainted. Our foreign policy is tainted. If impeachment seems impossible, it is only because we believe that Republicans in Congress would sooner protect a criminal administration than risk their legislative agenda to uphold the rule of law — which is all to say, Congress is tainted, too.

The actors in this drama are often comic, pathetic, and incompetent. But the damage they have done, and are doing, is almost beyond imagining. As often as this looks like farce, we should not forget it’s a tragedy.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #850 on: July 11, 2017, 03:12:57 pm »
The following day saw his first tweet regarding the Clinton email server.

It's worse than that.  The meeting was in Trump Tower at 4pm and reportedly lasted about 30 minutes.  Trump was in residence at Trump Tower that day.  The first ever tweet about Clinton emails came at...4:40pm. Same day.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #851 on: July 11, 2017, 07:27:17 pm »
It's worse than that.  The meeting was in Trump Tower at 4pm and reportedly lasted about 30 minutes.  Trump was in residence at Trump Tower that day.  The first ever tweet about Clinton emails came at...4:40pm. Same day.

On June 7, Fredo Trump confirmed the meeting.

That night, Papa Trump promised he would have "a major speech with all he information on the Clintons, probably next week."


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #852 on: July 12, 2017, 08:23:04 am »
As to my Sonny Corleone theory, Rachel Maddow - who is much smarter than me (and most other people) - last night explained exactly how Russia is getting what Russia wants.  That blows my theory out of the water.

This mess appears to have been the NY Times flushing this rat out of the drainpipe with good, ol' fashioned investigative journalism.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #853 on: July 12, 2017, 08:35:13 am »
With an amazing piece of coincidental timing, Christopher Wray is now sitting in front of the Senate for his confirmation hearing to be the replacement for James Comey.  I wonder what they'll ask him about.

Meanwhile, Trump Sr. is off on a trip to France, where he'll meet with noted Putin-botherer Emmanuel Macron.  I wonder what they'll talk about.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 08:39:20 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #854 on: July 12, 2017, 02:14:29 pm »
An interesting aside: the Jr. emails have just given flesh to the motive for Sr's obstruction of justice accusation.  His defense has been that "nobody knows" if Russia actually hacked the election.  Well, now we know that Jr., Kushner and Manafort - at least - knew.  If Trump fired Comey merely to stop the investigation getting to these emails, then that's obstruction of justice.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #855 on: July 13, 2017, 09:53:07 am »
Pretty crazy how fast we went from TrumpCo screaming that anything Russian related was a hoax and manufactured by the media to...well anyone would collude if given the chance.   Sad!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #856 on: July 13, 2017, 10:50:57 am »
Pretty crazy how fast we went from TrumpCo screaming that anything Russian related was a hoax and manufactured by the media to...well anyone would collude if given the chance.   Sad!

At least we can now rest assured that nothing came of the meeting...because they said so.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #857 on: July 13, 2017, 11:59:54 am »
At least we can now rest assured that nothing came of the meeting...because they said so.

They are all so believable. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #858 on: July 13, 2017, 12:31:35 pm »
They are all so believable. 

Exactly, there isnt a better example of projection than Trump's constant blathering about Fake News.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #859 on: July 13, 2017, 01:00:54 pm »
They are all so believable.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #860 on: July 13, 2017, 02:07:13 pm »
Exactly, there isnt a better example of projection than Trump's constant blathering about Fake News.

He reiterated today that he is a dumb creep
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #861 on: July 13, 2017, 03:02:19 pm »
Exactly, there isnt a better example of projection than Trump's constant blathering about Fake News.

I caught a bit of Katy Tur (but not the bits I'd like to catch) at lunch.  She was interviewing a Republican Congressman who was steadfast in his belief that nothing happened in the meeting because there are no facts to suggest anything else.  Katy tried to point out that it's a fact that the Trumps have lied multiple times about the meeting, so he pivoted to the shooting to Steve Scalia.  I shit you not.

Watching NBC, it seems to me that Kacie Hunt has the demeanor of one's S.O. when you've just got in late from a night out with the lads, while Katy Tur has the demeanor of your S.O. when she's rolling in late from a night out with the gals.  See also Oil, Wesson.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #862 on: July 13, 2017, 03:05:07 pm »
He reiterated today that he is a dumb creep

The France trip was arranged hastily as Trump only agreed to go once Macron promised him a parade with tanks 'n' shit.  What's "man-child" in French?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #863 on: July 13, 2017, 04:20:59 pm »
I suppose you could say he's a bit of an enfant terrible.

I'm still laughing at one of the things he said in the interview with Pat Robertson, who apparently is still alive somehow: Just got back from G20, amazing meeting, we had 20 counties there, you know.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #864 on: July 13, 2017, 05:19:59 pm »
I suppose you could say he's a bit of an enfant terrible.

I'm still laughing at one of the things he said in the interview with Pat Robertson, who apparently is still alive somehow: Just got back from G20, amazing meeting, we had 20 counties there, you know.

What's SAD! is that I bet Trump was going on what he was told and didn't actually count the twenty countries himself. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #865 on: July 14, 2017, 08:21:28 am »
What's SAD! is that I bet Trump was going on what he was told and didn't actually count the twenty countries himself.

"There are twenty countries in the world...not many people know this."

"Sir.  There are 196 countries."

"FAKE NEWS!"
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #866 on: July 14, 2017, 08:30:47 am »
They are all so believable.

To wit, NBC is reporting that there was another attendee at the June meeting: an, as yet unnamed, ex-Soviet agent.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #867 on: July 14, 2017, 09:06:23 am »
To wit, NBC is reporting that there was another attendee at the June meeting: an, as yet unnamed, ex-Soviet agent.
The press isn't very sharp.  This Russian lady has been interviewed numerous times, always through an interpreter, at least from what I've seen.  So, one logical question to Dumbass Jr., or at least to opine about, would be "Did this Russian attorney speak English to you."  "If not, do you speak Russian."  "If not, does Kushner or Manafort."  "If not, how the fuck did y'all communicate."  I've heard reporters say that there was interpreter in the meeting, but that doesn't square with the sudden newsflash that there was at least a fifth person in the room.

I realize that a shit-ton of stuff has been dropped on the press and they are not trained investigators, but I sure hope Mueller is fifty steps ahead of the press, on this matter and the numerous ones we will learn about in the coming weeks and months.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #868 on: July 14, 2017, 09:26:32 am »
He reiterated today that he is a dumb creep

Here's video of Trump refusing to release Brigitte Macron's hand from his tiny, vice-grip; and later complimenting her body right in front of his own wife (who she pulls in front of her for protection).  He is a horror of a man.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #869 on: July 14, 2017, 09:38:24 am »
The press isn't very sharp.  This Russian lady has been interviewed numerous times, always through an interpreter, at least from what I've seen.  So, one logical question to Dumbass Jr., or at least to opine about, would be "Did this Russian attorney speak English to you."  "If not, do you speak Russian."  "If not, does Kushner or Manafort."  "If not, how the fuck did y'all communicate."  I've heard reporters say that there was interpreter in the meeting, but that doesn't square with the sudden newsflash that there was at least a fifth person in the room.

I realize that a shit-ton of stuff has been dropped on the press and they are not trained investigators, but I sure hope Mueller is fifty steps ahead of the press, on this matter and the numerous ones we will learn about in the coming weeks and months.


Kinda like when Sr. let the Russian Ambassador and Russian Foreign Minister into the Oval Office with their own camera crew.  No security threat there, having some unknown Russians in there with a bunch of electronic equipment...
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #870 on: July 14, 2017, 09:45:15 am »
Here's video of Trump refusing to release Brigitte Macron's hand from his tiny, vice-grip; and later complimenting her body right in front of his own wife (who she pulls in front of her for protection).  He is a horror of a man.

I'm just glad he didn't grab her by the pussy.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #871 on: July 14, 2017, 10:05:18 am »
Meanwhile, back at The Wall, Trump wants it to be solar and physically (though certainly not financially) transparent:

Question: You were joking about solar, right?
Trump: No, not joking, no. There is a chance that we can do a solar wall. We have major companies looking at that. Look, there's no better place for solar than the Mexico border -- the southern border. And there is a very good chance we can do a solar wall, which would actually look good. But there is a very good chance we could do a solar wall.
One of the things with the wall is you need transparency. You have to be able to see through it. In other words, if you can't see through that wall — so it could be a steel wall with openings, but you have to have openings because you have to see what's on the other side of the wall.
And I'll give you an example. As horrible as it sounds, when they throw the large sacks of drugs over, and if you have people on the other side of the wall, you don't see them -- they hit you on the head with 60 pounds of stuff? It's over. As cray as that sounds, you need transparency through that wall. But we have some incredible designs.


And he did actually say "cray" instead of "crazy."  Frankly, I'm a little impressed with his vision.  If you're going to build something as stupid as a 2,000 mile wall, you might as well lean into it. 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #872 on: July 14, 2017, 10:57:07 am »
Well, that is the first time this fucking imbecile has made me laugh out loud. I'm imagining some poor sap standing around in the shade in Presidio, Texas, minding his own business when suddenly, WHOMP, crushed like a June bug by one of those archetypal 60-pound bags of cocaine the bad hombres are forever heaving over the border.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #873 on: July 14, 2017, 11:00:15 am »
Well, that is the first time this fucking imbecile has made me laugh out loud. I'm imagining some poor sap standing around in the shade in Presidio, Texas, minding his own business when suddenly, WHOMP, crushed like a June bug by one of those archetypal 60-pound bags of cocaine the bad hombres are forever heaving over the border.

"The large sacks of drugs."  It's like he views the world solely in terms of bugs bunny cartoons. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #874 on: July 14, 2017, 11:02:52 am »
And he did actually say "cray" instead of "crazy."  Frankly, I'm a little impressed with his vision.  If you're going to build something as stupid as a 2,000 mile wall, you might as well lean into it.

There is so much stupid here it's hard to know where to begin.  Is he saying that we need openings in the wall so we can see people trying to throw sacks of drugs over it?  Won't they just push drugs through the openings in the wall?  Won't they just keep tunneling like they do now?  Don't solar panels have to be not-vertical to catch the sun?  Won't putting solar panels on 2,000 miles of wall be cray-expensive?  Won't all that energy production kill coal jobs?  WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR THE FUCKING THING?

I now understand why he watches back recordings of his TV appearances with the volume down:  listening to what he says destroys brain cells.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #875 on: July 14, 2017, 11:05:48 am »
Well, that is the first time this fucking imbecile has made me laugh out loud. I'm imagining some poor sap standing around in the shade in Presidio, Texas, minding his own business when suddenly, WHOMP, crushed like a June bug by one of those archetypal 60-pound bags of cocaine the bad hombres are forever heaving over the border.

I am reminded of this parody of the classic British comedy "Whisky Galore".
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #876 on: July 14, 2017, 11:06:13 am »
"The large sacks of drugs."  It's like he views the world solely in terms of bugs bunny cartoons.

What's Spanish for "Acme"?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #877 on: July 14, 2017, 11:07:41 am »
"The large sacks of drugs."  It's like he views the world solely in terms of bugs bunny cartoons.

Speedy Gonzales was a bad hombre.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #878 on: July 14, 2017, 11:10:37 am »
Speedy Gonzales was a bad hombre.

The DEA has already unearthed equipment being built by the cartels to bypass Trump's wall.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #879 on: July 14, 2017, 11:19:15 am »
"The large sacks of drugs."  It's like he views the world solely in terms of bugs bunny cartoons.

Maybe they should paint gaps in the wall on the Mexican side; that way the drug runners will crash into the wall thinking there's a gap, thus foiling their plan.  The unfortunate downside is that a number of cats may end up with a stripe of white paint down their backs, and get raped by illegal alien skunks.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #880 on: July 14, 2017, 11:24:20 am »
Maybe they should paint gaps in the wall on the Mexican side; that way the drug runners will crash into the wall thinking there's a gap, thus foiling their plan.  The unfortunate downside is that a number of cats may end up with a stripe of white paint down their backs, and get raped by illegal alien skunks.

90% of the time, the cats and skunks were drunk, so the cats had it coming.



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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #881 on: July 14, 2017, 11:28:01 am »
Seriously, if his wall can be defeated as easily as a burly Mexican lobbing sacks over it, why the fuck are we bothering to build it?

We haven't even started getting into high tech solutions like ropes and ladders, which have been around for tens of thousands of years.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #882 on: July 14, 2017, 11:40:49 am »
The DEA has already unearthed equipment being built by the cartels to bypass Trump's wall.

Vicente Fox made a mocking video recently in which he displayed a "schematic downloaded from the dark web" of a special device designed to thwart the wall. It was of course a ladder.

There's a surf town here called Santa Catalina. It's a pretty cool place, all in all. I usually do my dive trips from there. I almost always stay at the same place, a place run by a Portuguese surfer who's been there for, I don't know, 25 years at least. He knows every last thing about the place, of course. He was telling me about a time not that long ago when a large shipment of cocaine washed up on the town's beaches. The local youth are in general none too bright. Probably a lot like the local youth anywhere. These guys snatched up the various packages and set about moving their weight. Well, obviously, the client list for kilos of cocaine in the greater Santa Catalina - Soná area is limited, and since it apparently never occurred to any of these budding Tony Montanas to head to the capital and look up some real gangsters, they did the best they could with the gringo surfers and the like that would roll through town.

It didn't take long before the local police figured out what was going on. The ringleader of this operation was a guy named Ponky. Ponky worked out of the town's main store, part (very) small grocery, part miscellaneous items. There's a phone booth just outside. The main police station for the area is in Soná, which is maybe an hour away depending on the condition of the road that day. Apparently the police weren't interested in driving down to Santa Catalina to make the bust, so one of them had a nice idea. They ring the phone booth.

- Yello!
- Ponky, that you?!
- Yo!
- Hey, heard you got some product!
- Sure do! Whaddaya need?!
- Oh, I don't know, as much as you got!
- You bet!
- Say, why don't you hop the next bus outta there and meet me in Soná? I'll be the guy waiting at the bus station!
- On the way!

So, yes, Ponky got on a bus and literally delivered the drugs (and himself) directly to the police who were too lazy to come down and arrest him.

The only thing that's really surprising is that this doesn't happen all the time, drugs washing up on the beach. I can't imagine the quantity of drugs that find their way into the country through the Pacific coast.  Why this doesn't happen every week I just can't imagine.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #883 on: July 14, 2017, 01:03:26 pm »
The idea of securing the southern border, in certain places is a good idea. Obama was for, Clinton was for it, anyone with any sense is for it.   The idea of building a 3000 mile long 60ft high wall on the other hand, is singularly one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of.  Of course Trump and most the simpletons that adore him think it is brilliant.  It is so dumb it is hard to wrap my head around the idea that there are living breathing people that think it makes sense....but here we are.

To Trump's credit, it sound like he is at least listening to the people that actually understand the border.  One of their biggest complaints behind his idiotic idea was that they need to be able to see the other side.   Up until now, everything I read was that he was unwilling to budge on an "wall" vs some sort of fence, so that LEO could see what was happening on the other side.

It appears that simply explaining that to our rube of a President didn't work, instead they tricked him with the idea of people being killed by Mexicans randomly lobbing over huge sacks of drugs.   What the actual Fuck. Cray Times!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #884 on: July 14, 2017, 01:14:39 pm »
And remember this, it’s a 2,000 mile border, but you don’t need 2,000 miles of wall because you have a lot of natural barriers. You have mountains. You have some rivers that are violent and vicious. You have some areas that are so far away that you don’t really have people crossing.

Mexicans are notoriously afraid of mountains. And by 'some rivers,' I assume he means 'a' river. A lot of people don't know this, but it's only one river that forms a border. Anyway, it's a good thing it's too violent and vicious for anyone to ever think of crossing it.

And then all those areas that are too far away. We can forget about those places, thank heavens. Who in his right mind would want to lug 60-pound sacks of drugs through a remote desert? AND, we're currently repairing parts of the existing wall, so in reality you can accurately say that we have in fact begun the wall.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #885 on: July 14, 2017, 01:15:28 pm »
It appears that simply explaining that to our rube of a President didn't work, instead they tricked him with the idea of people being killed by Mexicans randomly lobbing over huge sacks of drugs.   What the actual Fuck. Cray Times!

As funny as it was, when SNL had Trump sit at the kid's desk playing with a toy while Bannon ran the country, the truth is actually way more scary.  Nobody is running anything, and Trump is as in charge as anyone can be in this Blazing Saddles pie fight of an administration.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #886 on: July 14, 2017, 01:18:25 pm »
Mexicans are notoriously afraid of mountains. And by 'some rivers,' I assume he means 'a' river. A lot of people don't know this, but it's only one river that forms a border. Anyway, it's a good thing it's too violent and vicious for anyone to ever think of crossing it.

I wonder if anyone has managed to build a bridge over this raging horror of a waterway?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #887 on: July 14, 2017, 01:23:06 pm »
Former Russian counter-intelligence operative turned lobbyist has admitted attending the June 2016 meeting.  So, let's call the roll shall we:

Russian, Kremlin-connected lawyer
Russian Interpreter
Russian counter-intelligence agent
Manafort
Kushner
Trump Jr.

Topic:  babies.

Totally credible.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #888 on: July 14, 2017, 01:25:34 pm »
The idea of securing the southern border, in certain places is a good idea. Obama was for, Clinton was for it, anyone with any sense is for it.   The idea of building a 3000 mile long 60ft high wall on the other hand, is singularly one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of.  Of course Trump and most the simpletons that adore him think it is brilliant.  It is so dumb it is hard to wrap my head around the idea that there are living breathing people that think it makes sense....but here we are.

To Trump's credit, it sound like he is at least listening to the people that actually understand the border.  One of their biggest complaints behind his idiotic idea was that they need to be able to see the other side.   Up until now, everything I read was that he was unwilling to budge on an "wall" vs some sort of fence, so that LEO could see what was happening on the other side.

It appears that simply explaining that to our rube of a President didn't work, instead they tricked him with the idea of people being killed by Mexicans randomly lobbing over huge sacks of drugs.   What the actual Fuck. Cray Times!

People keep talking about the wall with Mexico, but it's the Canadians we should be worried about.  They're the ones who gave us Ted Cruz. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #889 on: July 14, 2017, 01:33:03 pm »
People keep talking about the wall with Mexico, but it's the Canadians we should be worried about.  They're the ones who gave us Ted Cruz.

...and Bryan Adams.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #890 on: July 14, 2017, 01:34:59 pm »
And Maryland.   They are the ones who gave us that shitstain Dan Patrick.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #891 on: July 14, 2017, 01:41:16 pm »
And all the blue states...losers.

The Russians are coming...The Russians are coming...The sky is falling...The sky is falling.

Go 'Stros...let get this second half started....before the Russians take over.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #892 on: July 14, 2017, 01:48:27 pm »
And all the blue states...losers.

The Russians are coming...The Russians are coming...The sky is falling...The sky is falling.

Go 'Stros...let get this second half started....before the Russians take over.

Before?  Too late.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #893 on: July 14, 2017, 01:50:21 pm »
And all the blue states...losers.

The Russians are coming...The Russians are coming...The sky is falling...The sky is falling.

Go 'Stros...let get this second half started....before the Russians take over.

Why do you trust the Russians?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #894 on: July 14, 2017, 02:21:35 pm »
And all the blue states...losers.

The Russians are coming...The Russians are coming...The sky is falling...The sky is falling.

Go 'Stros...let get this second half started....before the Russians take over.

Plenty of wonderful folks in Blue states, Dan Patrick aint one of them.   I mean Dan Goeb, which is he real name.   Everything about Dan is fake.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #895 on: July 14, 2017, 02:27:31 pm »
Former Russian counter-intelligence operative turned lobbyist has admitted attending the June 2016 meeting.  So, let's call the roll shall we:

Russian, Kremlin-connected lawyer
Russian Interpreter
Russian counter-intelligence agent
Manafort
Kushner
Trump Jr.

Topic:  babies.

Totally credible.

The translator apparently was not a Russian but instead a fellow named John Barron.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #896 on: July 14, 2017, 02:28:11 pm »
The translator apparently was not a Russian but instead a fellow named John Barron.

Jim couldn't make it because he was still in Paris freaking out about brown people. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #897 on: July 14, 2017, 02:35:10 pm »
90% of the time, the cats and skunks were drunk, so the cats had it coming.



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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #898 on: July 14, 2017, 03:14:03 pm »
The cats at Baylor get killed by the baseball players.   
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/2001-04-11/2001-04-11-colleges.htm

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #899 on: July 14, 2017, 06:10:11 pm »
Funny how all these people ostensibly up in arms over the idea of HRC meeting secretly with international swells to conspire an end to American sovereignty couldn't care less that their guy was actively courting a foreign country's aid in the election, and has been demonstrably lying about it the whole time.

I know it doesn't do any good to point out hypocrisy, but Jesus Christ...

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #900 on: July 14, 2017, 08:02:27 pm »
To Trump's credit, it sound like he is at least listening to the people that actually understand the border. 

Not so fast.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #901 on: July 14, 2017, 10:27:43 pm »
Why do you trust the Russians?

I neither trust them or fear them...fuck them....but they have a couple thousand nuclear, deplorable
weapons...so I respect them. No need to piss them off if we can find common ground. It's a different bear these days.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #902 on: July 16, 2017, 11:50:38 am »
Funny how all these people ostensibly up in arms over the idea of HRC meeting secretly with international swells to conspire an end to American sovereignty couldn't care less that their guy was actively courting a foreign country's aid in the election, and has been demonstrably lying about it the whole time.

I know it doesn't do any good to point out hypocrisy, but Jesus Christ...

From an ABC/WaPo Poll:

% of GOP who believe Russia sought to interfere in the 2016 election...
April: 18%
 July: 9%

Also, 58% of GOP poll respondents believe colleges and universities have a negative impact on the country.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #903 on: July 16, 2017, 12:02:11 pm »

Also, 58% of GOP poll respondents believe colleges and universities have a negative impact on the country.

That result makes me question the validity of a lot of things.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #904 on: July 16, 2017, 12:22:56 pm »
That result makes me question the validity of a lot of things.

It's honestly depressing to think about.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #905 on: July 16, 2017, 01:18:34 pm »
I saw recently where some Democratic strategists were looking at polling numbers in a purple congressional district and they were shocked to discover that among Republicans Trump is more popular now than he was when he was elected or sworn in or whatever it was. It didn't surprise me at all. Of course, I'm not a highly paid operative tasked with discovering new and fucked up ways to lose every election ever held.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #906 on: July 16, 2017, 02:59:09 pm »
Some of that increase is probably due to Trump-skeptical GOP voters no longer identifying as Republican. Not that it makes a difference as long as they continue to *vote* Republican, as they almost certainly will.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #907 on: July 16, 2017, 03:32:48 pm »
I neither trust them or fear them...fuck them....but they have a couple thousand nuclear, deplorable
weapons...so I respect them. No need to piss them off if we can find common ground. It's a different bear these days.

What's the common ground?  Ending NATO or embracing authoritarianism? 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #908 on: July 16, 2017, 03:39:28 pm »
What's the common ground?  Ending NATO or embracing authoritarianism?

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #909 on: July 16, 2017, 05:00:55 pm »
Hate for "the gays".
It always gets back to Pussy Riot.
Everyone's talking, few of them know
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #910 on: July 16, 2017, 05:47:59 pm »

Also, 58% of GOP poll respondents believe colleges and universities have a negative impact on the country.

Except for Trump U. Trump U does nothing but churn out motherfuckin' winners. Big time.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #911 on: July 16, 2017, 06:37:11 pm »
Of course, I'm not a highly paid operative tasked with discovering new and fucked up ways to lose every election ever held.
Why the fuck not?  You can telecommute to that gig.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #912 on: July 17, 2017, 08:15:57 am »
The translator apparently was not a Russian but instead a fellow named John Barron.

The Hill is reporting that the translator was a Russian, that Limey-Weirdo Rob Goldstone was there too and an, as yet unidentified, 8th person, most likely a representative of the oligarch Agalarov.

#Transparency
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #913 on: July 17, 2017, 08:17:58 am »
I neither trust them or fear them...fuck them....but they have a couple thousand nuclear, deplorable
weapons...so I respect them. No need to piss them off if we can find common ground. It's a different bear these days.

Different than through the 50s, 60s, 70s and much of the 80s, when there was a real threat of global thermo nuclear war?

They cyber-attacked us.  Just because there isn't (yet) a giant smoking hole in the ground doesn't mean it didn't happen and/or it's ok because it was just Hillary.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #914 on: July 17, 2017, 08:33:26 am »
From an ABC/WaPo Poll:

% of GOP who believe Russia sought to interfere in the 2016 election...
April: 18%
 July: 9%

Also, 58% of GOP poll respondents believe colleges and universities have a negative impact on the country.


Hard core conservative voters are a lost cause.  Good news, they're only about 30% of the electorate.  Among the rest of us, Trump is plumbing historically new lows with each new poll.

This hard core conservative agenda is easily beaten by a moderate/progressive coalition, but good fucking luck getting all of them on the same page.  Such a coalition has a very high crossover in the Venn, but will continue to lose if it continues to fuss over the minutiae.  Meanwhile, conservatives continue to show that they will vote in lockstep for "their guy" even it it's a giant orange piece of shit like Trump.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #915 on: July 17, 2017, 04:21:18 pm »
Spicey's back!!!!  Asked about Trump Jr's big Russia meeting, Spicer couldn't understand why everyone was so bent out of shape over a meeting about adoptions.  Way to keep up with current events!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #916 on: July 18, 2017, 08:50:49 am »
Tuesday:

Trumpcare is dead in the Senate.  Now they're returning to a simply repeal of Obamacare to put us back where we were before the ACA, because that was great!  Not sure if they can do this with reconciliation, for which they remain on the same knife edge as Trumpcare, but they sure as shit don't have 60 votes if that's what's needed.  Assuming they can do this, it'll mean that the 20-or-so million people who got insurance under the ACA - either through Medicaid expansion or simply the protections against excluding pre-existing conditions - will return to the world of the uninsured, along with anyone else diagnosed with any serious illness in the meantime.

The WSJ has scolded Trump and his family for lying and stonewalling over Russia (no link as behind a paywall), comparing it to the Clinton scandals.  They called for the whole of TrumpWorld to put its Russia cards on the table - including business dealings and taxes - take the short-term hit and let us all get on with life thereafter.  Sound advice, assuming that there's not more evidence of illegal activity on those cards.  Naive advice if you're the head of a crime family that's up to its eyeballs in real estate money laundering, tax avoidance, international cyber crime and election fraud.

The WSJ also reports  (no link as behind the same paywall) that Paul Manafort - Trump's former campaign chairman and Russian adoption expert - took out personal loans from a bank just after the election.  Nothing to see here, right?  Well the bank is owned by a former Trump campaign advisor who overlapped in service to the campaign with Manafort.  Still nothing to see?  Well the loan was for $16mm, which is about 25% of that bank's equity capital.  New York investigators have asked to see the documents.  No shit.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #917 on: July 18, 2017, 09:30:24 am »
They called for the whole of TrumpWorld to put its Russia cards on the table - including business dealings and taxes - take the short-term hit and let us all get on with life thereafter. Sound advice, assuming that there's not more evidence of illegal activity on those cards.  Naive advice if you're the head of a crime family that's up to its eyeballs in real estate money laundering, tax avoidance, international cyber crime and election fraud.
Been hearing the bolded point from pundits for awhile now.  The naivete embedded in this belief that makes me wonder about the media.  They really can't be this stupid; they have to know that he doesn't just come clean cause he is dirty.  This also runs counter to the idea that the media is some liberal, anti-Trump group.  Bullshit.  They are bending over backwards to give this crook the benefit of the doubt and be way on his side of neutral. 

Let me break it to them: he isn't coming clean and he isn't going to fucking pivot.  Stop acting like he is capable of anything other than what he is, an egotistical boob. 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #918 on: July 18, 2017, 10:45:25 am »
Been hearing the bolded point from pundits for awhile now.  The naivete embedded in this belief that makes me wonder about the media.  They really can't be this stupid; they have to know that he doesn't just come clean cause he is dirty.  This also runs counter to the idea that the media is some liberal, anti-Trump group.  Bullshit.  They are bending over backwards to give this crook the benefit of the doubt and be way on his side of neutral. 

Let me break it to them: he isn't coming clean and he isn't going to fucking pivot.  Stop acting like he is capable of anything other than what he is, an egotistical boob.


Trump is also hamstrung by his rampant nepotism; he's put his entire family in serious jeopardy by using them as proxies for himself.  Nixon progressively threw his inner circle under the Watergate bus until there was no one left.  Trump can't do that because there'd be no one at the table at Thanksgiving if he did.

I think the only way he gets out of it is to pardon the whole lot - himself included (it's woolly as to whether that's allowed or not) - and then quit en masse.  He can issue pardons for crimes not yet prosecuted, but he can't forgive crimes not yet committed.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #919 on: July 18, 2017, 12:42:42 pm »
Let me break it to them: he isn't coming clean and he isn't going to fucking pivot.  Stop acting like he is capable of anything other than what he is, an egotistical boob.

It seems evident to me that television current events entertainment networks, all of them, however you arrange them along the axis, all of them are interested in stringing this out as long as possible. And why wouldn't they be? There is no journalism done on television. I don't know if there ever was but there certainly isn't now. So a fucked up goat rodeo like this is a total goldmine for everyone involved.

As for the various newspapers of record, I think it will take some perspective that we are a long way yet from having to know if they are playing this the right way. There has been some disclosure, sure, and some pushback against the constant deluge of complete fabrication - lies - but not enough to be satisfying to a guy like me. Of course I may not be the best possible benchmark. It seems to me like the Times and the Post are largely playing this very cautiously, and at the end of the day that's surely the best way to go.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #920 on: July 18, 2017, 01:12:40 pm »
Been hearing the bolded point from pundits for awhile now.  The naivete embedded in this belief that makes me wonder about the media.

Generally speaking, when you get to stories like this and it's the most major, storied entities of the press, these folks are sharp as hell and are buried in reams of information that require technique and experience in order to get the truth, discard the fiction, and stay on the right side of the law. That's part of why these things progress slowly. I suspect that asking these questions in this manner is an attempt to frame this in the light of what Everyman would like to know and either get Trump to deny or lie some more, drawing the noose tighter. They know he'll never come clean, but it's a way of adding negative pressure to him.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #921 on: July 18, 2017, 03:27:43 pm »
Generally speaking, when you get to stories like this and it's the most major, storied entities of the press, these folks are sharp as hell and are buried in reams of information that require technique and experience in order to get the truth, discard the fiction, and stay on the right side of the law.

The blizzard of shit is not a bug, it's a feature.  We're supposed to be stupified by Trumpian distractions while the Republicans set about their agenda - which includes voter suppression - so that, by the time the next election rolls around, there's no way they can be removed from power.  Also, we have always been at war with Eastasia.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #922 on: July 18, 2017, 03:37:33 pm »
Also, we have always been at war with Eastasia.

Reading that I reflexively conjured up from absolutely nowhere a little refrain, 'Put the paper in the slot,' sung to the tune of Borat's 'Throw the Jew Down the Well.'

I believe I may be losing my mind.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #923 on: July 19, 2017, 08:08:13 am »
At the G20, in addition to the 30-minute meeting between Trump and Putin that went on for 2 hours, they had another, undisclosed, hour-long meeting that evening.  I guess Donald was feeling left out as being the only one with undisclosed meetings with a Russian.

The meeting was just Trump, Putin and Putin's interpreter.  There is no official record (at least on the US side) of what was discussed.  He knows he works for us, right?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 08:11:55 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #924 on: July 19, 2017, 08:54:26 am »
An interesting observation on the repeal and delay effort: it failed, almost instantly after the replacement effort failed, because three women Republican senators killed it.  The women who were excluded from the boys' club who crafted the replacement legislation in their secret, no girls allowed treehouse.

Payback's a bitch.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #925 on: July 19, 2017, 05:52:02 pm »
Now Trump is ending a covert CIA program to equip and train rebel groups fighting against noted human rights-abuser (and the target of Trump's theater warfare) Assad.  Of course, this is a move that has been sought by Russia.

The U.S. decision, said one of the officials, is part of an effort by the administration to improve relations with Russia, which along with Iranian-supported groups has largely succeeded in preserving Assad's government in the six-year-civil war.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #926 on: July 19, 2017, 06:53:19 pm »
His puppitude is undeniable by any honest person.  It's gotten past embarrassing that the Republicans are silent; it's now dangerous.

Just heard that that Trump said looking into his family finances is a red line for Mueller. Gee, I wonder if there's anything there? 

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #927 on: July 19, 2017, 07:03:23 pm »
And in an interview with the NYT, he says he would have never appointed Sessions if he had known that Sessions would recuse himself, calling it "very unfair to the President."

In other words, the AG's job is to cover for the President, not to lead the Justice Department.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #928 on: July 19, 2017, 09:00:58 pm »
His puppitude is undeniable by any honest person.  It's gotten past embarrassing that the Republicans are silent; it's now dangerous.

I always knew that Republicans were totally fucking full of shit but I never properly recognized that they are irredeemably depraved. I mean, they're enabling an at best treasonous know-nothing to bull through the china shop - as you say, dangerous - and for what? Their legislative agenda? They don't have one, not beyond the vague idea of debilitating the federal government and giving tax breaks to the richest people they can find. It ain't like they're trying to pass the Civil Rights Act.

They're a party completely bereft of ideas. They've had who the fuck knows how long to come up with some healthcare plan, since Bush, at least, so the better part of 20 years, and the best they can do now is try to dismantle Medicaid in order to execute a massive wealth transfer from the people who need it most to the people who need it least. And these dickfaces can't even do that with a Republican president, a Republican House, a Republican Senate and a motherfucking Republican Supreme Court.

And of course when you get 45% of Republicans saying that they simply do not believe that Trump Jr met with a Russian lawyer when the motherfucker publicly admitted to it, well, it doesn't take Magellan to see that you necks are in some turbulent waters.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #929 on: July 19, 2017, 09:18:30 pm »
And of course when you get 45% of Republicans saying that they simply do not believe that Trump Jr met with a Russian lawyer when the motherfucker publicly admitted to it, well, it doesn't take Magellan to see that you necks are in some turbulent waters.

They're going to do damage that won't be undone in my lifetime. It's very depressing. And in 20 years, or maybe even only 10, we're really going to regret getting distracted by all of this shit instead of figuring out how to accelerate a transition off of fossil fuel and mitigate the  consequences that are already baked in.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #930 on: July 19, 2017, 09:54:59 pm »
They're going to do damage that won't be undone in my lifetime. It's very depressing. And in 20 years, or maybe even only 10, we're really going to regret getting distracted by all of this shit instead of figuring out how to accelerate a transition off of fossil fuel and mitigate the  consequences that are already baked in.

I'm a great believer in technology and I like to hope that there will be a technological solution to the catastrophe that we're creating. But it is a real testament to the Republicans' total lack of imagination (and total subservience to fear) that they send Scott Pruitt and Rick Perry out dressed up like Broadway extras to do the Petro Hustle instead of saying, Hey, you know, we invented or effectively commercialized the steam engine, the internal combustion engine, the jet engine, the silicon chip, you know, why the hell can't we figure out how to commercialize the fuck out of renewables and lead the world in the next (and inevitable) economic revolution?

But nope.

Imagine if in the early 70's the fucking typewriter ribbon lobby was like, Hey, hey HEY! Now wait a goddamn minute, here!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #931 on: July 20, 2017, 07:51:11 am »
This is a
They're going to do damage that won't be undone in my lifetime. It's very depressing. And in 20 years, or maybe even only 10, we're really going to regret getting distracted by all of this shit instead of figuring out how to accelerate a transition off of fossil fuel and mitigate the  consequences that are already baked in.

I agree and it is sad.  It is probably the only reason I am glad I don't have kids.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #932 on: July 20, 2017, 07:53:25 am »
I'm a great believer in technology and I like to hope that there will be a technological solution to the catastrophe that we're creating. But it is a real testament to the Republicans' total lack of imagination (and total subservience to fear) that they send Scott Pruitt and Rick Perry out dressed up like Broadway extras to do the Petro Hustle instead of saying, Hey, you know, we invented or effectively commercialized the steam engine, the internal combustion engine, the jet engine, the silicon chip, you know, why the hell can't we figure out how to commercialize the fuck out of renewables and lead the world in the next (and inevitable) economic revolution?

But nope.

Imagine if in the early 70's the fucking typewriter ribbon lobby was like, Hey, hey HEY! Now wait a goddamn minute, here!
I totally agree but I still like the analog sound of vinyl better than the digital sound of mp3 and I prefer tube amps to solid state.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #933 on: July 20, 2017, 08:30:31 am »
His puppitude is undeniable by any honest person.  It's gotten past embarrassing that the Republicans are silent; it's now dangerous.

Just heard that that Trump said looking into his family finances is a red line for Mueller. Gee, I wonder if there's anything there?

There's an saying that I heard the other day (from the middle east, I believe) being applied to Congressional Republicans:
"You can wake someone who's sleeping, but you can never wake someone who's pretending to be asleep."

Mean while, in the unhinged NYT interview, Trump said he would fire Mueller if he went after his family's finances, which is exactly what Mueller is now doing.  Also, he said that he has secret tapes information on serious conflicts of interest with Mueller, and that he just might start releasing it soon.  So Trump is trying to unduly influence the Special Prosecutor who is investigating him for unduly influencing the FBI Director.  A very large part of all the things that make Trump a truly terrible person, is that he's incredibly dumb and thinks he's incredibly smart.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #934 on: July 20, 2017, 08:33:49 am »
They're going to do damage that won't be undone in my lifetime. It's very depressing. And in 20 years, or maybe even only 10, we're really going to regret getting distracted by all of this shit instead of figuring out how to accelerate a transition off of fossil fuel and mitigate the  consequences that are already baked in.

We'll be buying lots of shit from furriners, because we spent the second decade of the 21st century focusing on "clean" coal technology.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #935 on: July 20, 2017, 08:36:47 am »
I totally agree but I still like the analog sound of vinyl better than the digital sound of mp3 and I prefer tube amps to solid state.

The difference is, you're not trying to legislate that digital music isn't real.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #936 on: July 20, 2017, 08:55:04 am »
I always knew that Republicans were totally fucking full of shit but I never properly recognized that they are irredeemably depraved. I mean, they're enabling an at best treasonous know-nothing to bull through the china shop - as you say, dangerous - and for what? Their legislative agenda? They don't have one, not beyond the vague idea of debilitating the federal government and giving tax breaks to the richest people they can find. It ain't like they're trying to pass the Civil Rights Act.

They're a party completely bereft of ideas. They've had who the fuck knows how long to come up with some healthcare plan, since Bush, at least, so the better part of 20 years, and the best they can do now is try to dismantle Medicaid in order to execute a massive wealth transfer from the people who need it most to the people who need it least. And these dickfaces can't even do that with a Republican president, a Republican House, a Republican Senate and a motherfucking Republican Supreme Court.

And of course when you get 45% of Republicans saying that they simply do not believe that Trump Jr met with a Russian lawyer when the motherfucker publicly admitted to it, well, it doesn't take Magellan to see that you necks are in some turbulent waters.


Republicans built their entire modern-day existence on being in opposition.  It's was tons of fun holding 50, 60, 70 Obamacare repeal votes in the House, knowing that they would die in the Senate or, failing that, Obama would veto it.  When it came to actually repealing it, they shit all over themselves in public.  You're absolutely right that they have no ideas other than tax cuts work because...well...because...and don't look at every single time that tax cuts have tanked the economy and every single time that tax increases have stimulated the economy.

They yearn to make America great again, while failing to actually specify what they mean.  If they want to go back to the heyday of the middle class - which seems to be the nebulous concept they espouse - that's great.  In the 50s and 60s a working class family could buy a house, two cars and put their kids through college on a single income.  America made stuff and innovated like no one else.  Also, the top tax rate was 95%.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #937 on: July 20, 2017, 08:57:42 am »
July 26:  Trump Jr. and Manafort will testify in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee.  The hearing will be live on TV.

Buy the popcorn and book your time off now!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #938 on: July 20, 2017, 09:05:42 am »
July 26:  Trump Jr. and Manafort will testify in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee.  The hearing will be live on TV.

Buy the popcorn and book your time off now!

No, they've been "invited" to testify. Whether they will is an open question.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #939 on: July 20, 2017, 09:11:16 am »
No, they've been "invited" to testify. Whether they will is an open question.

Ah, hadn't seen that.  Yeah, no way he goes, he's too stupid not to vomit incriminating word salad all over himself.

Kushner is supposedly going to testify in closed session to the Senate Intelligence Committee.  No idea if that's voluntary or not but, as a White House job-holder, he may not have a choice.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #940 on: July 20, 2017, 09:52:17 am »
July 26:  Trump Jr. and Manafort will testify in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee.  The hearing will be live on TV.

Buy the popcorn and book your time off now!
The sad truth is more Americans will tune in to see the OJ parole hearings.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #941 on: July 20, 2017, 10:11:42 am »
Trump thinks health insurance costs $12.  A year.  Seriously.  Further, as stated in the linked article, he thinks it's down 20% since May, when he estimated it cost $15.

How can you solve a problem when you are completely clueless as to what it is?  How can you be this clueless?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #942 on: July 20, 2017, 11:03:54 am »
Trump thinks health insurance costs $12.  A year.  Seriously.  Further, as stated in the linked article, he thinks it's down 20% since May, when he estimated it cost $15.

How can you solve a problem when you are completely clueless as to what it is?  How can you be this clueless?

Here's the transcript of the interview that article quotes. It's got some gems.

My favorite passage:
Quote
HABERMAN: [In Paris], I don’t think I’ve seen you look like you were enjoying yourself that much since the convention, really.

TRUMP: I have had the best reviews on foreign land. So I go to Poland and make a speech. Enemies of mine in the media, enemies of mine are saying it was the greatest speech ever made on foreign soil by a president. I’m saying, man, they cover [garbled]. You saw the reviews I got on that speech. Poland was beautiful and wonderful, and the reception was incredible.

And then, went to France the following week, because it was the 100th year. [inaudible] The Paris Accord — I wasn’t going to get along with France for a little while, because people forget, because it is a very unfair agreement to us. China doesn’t get [garbled] until 2030. Russia goes back to 1994 as a standard — a much, much lower standard. India has things that are [garbled]. I want to do the same thing as everyone else. We can’t do that? We can’t do that? That’s O.K. Let me get out. Frankly, the people that like me, love that I got out.

After that, it was fairly surprising. He [President Emmanuel Macron of France] called me and said, “I’d love to have you there and honor you in France,” having to do with Bastille Day. Plus, it’s the 100th year of the First World War. That’s big. And I said yes. I mean, I have a great relationship with him. He’s a great guy.

HABERMAN: He was very deferential to you. Very.

TRUMP: He’s a great guy. Smart. Strong. Loves holding my hand.

HABERMAN: I’ve noticed.

TRUMP: People don’t realize he loves holding my hand. And that’s good, as far as that goes.

_________

TRUMP: I mean, really. He’s a very good person. And a tough guy, but look, he has to be. I think he is going to be a terrific president of France. But he does love holding my hand.

One can love, hate, or be indifferent regarding the president but no one can honestly say the guy isn't just a wee bit crazy.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #943 on: July 20, 2017, 11:10:02 am »
One can love, hate, or be indifferent regarding the president but no one can honestly say the guy isn't just a wee bit crazy.

I think you spelled "bat shit" wrong.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #944 on: July 20, 2017, 11:11:23 am »
I think you spelled "bat shit" wrong.

I guano the correct spelling.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #945 on: July 20, 2017, 11:17:47 am »
I guano the correct spelling.

Honestly, this is Crazy King George stuff.

Quote
They have discovered that during his [George III] episodes of illness, his sentences were much longer than when he was well.

A sentence containing 400 words and eight verbs was not unusual. George III, when ill, often repeated himself, and at the same time his vocabulary became much more complex, creative and colourful.

These are features that can be seen today in the writing and speech of patients experiencing the manic phase of psychiatric illnesses such as bipolar disorder.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #946 on: July 20, 2017, 11:19:11 am »
Quote
Enemies of mine in the media, enemies of mine are saying it was the greatest speech ever made on foreign soil by a president.

At least he can still make me laugh.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #947 on: July 20, 2017, 12:47:51 pm »
Trump thinks health insurance costs $12.  A year.  Seriously.  Further, as stated in the linked article, he thinks it's down 20% since May, when he estimated it cost $15.

How can you solve a problem when you are completely clueless as to what it is?  How can you be this clueless?

He doesn't know the difference between life insurance and health insurance.  OutSTANding.

I remember when George Bush the elder went to a supermarket in Frederick, Maryland, or somewhere similar and was entranced by the scanner at the check-out. Why, I never! And then, conversely, during the campaign for the 1992 election someone asked Clinton about the prices of everyday items, a gallon of milk, a pair of Levis, whatever, and he knew (better than I did) what it all cost.

I don't really know how any of that applies to PPG. But I guess we can see with hindsight that HW, a sort of amorphous coffee ring on the flyleaf of American history, that dude looks like Winston fucking Churchill right about now.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #948 on: July 20, 2017, 01:46:17 pm »
I don't really know how any of that applies to PPG. But I guess we can see with hindsight that HW, a sort of amorphous coffee ring on the flyleaf of American history, that dude looks like Winston fucking Churchill right about now.

W. must be chuckling his shoulders off!  First, Jeb completely dispels the widely held belief that he's the smart one, and then Trump gets in and plumbs new depths of ignorance and detachment.  Bush Jr. still has the Iraq war, but Trump's only been in office 6 months (yes, it's only been 6 months).  Trump already has us in Syria, but it won't be until he gets us into Iran and/or North Korea that W's legacy will be comprehensively trounced.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #949 on: July 20, 2017, 03:19:09 pm »
Some Trumpanzees in the West Wing are starting to wonder whether their fealty to their lord might be only a one-way thing.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #950 on: July 20, 2017, 04:15:16 pm »
This is an excerpt from a Houston-based and highly-reputable oil and gas investment bank and research firm's morning note. Basically, it is not exactly "left wing fake news." If you want to skim for the gist of it, check out the parts I highlighted in bold.

Quote
Trump Administration officials have fired a warning shot across the bow of Venezuela this week, stating that the US may proceed with economic sanctions in response to President Nicolas Maduro’s apparent push to rewrite the country’s constitution and dismantle its democracy.  These sanctions could importantly include a ban on Venezuelan crude imports into the US. . . .  President Trump has declared that the US “will take strong and swift economic actions” should the Maduro regime impose its Constitutional Assembly on the country.  There are likely two primary reverberating consequences for US oil markets and the domestic refining industry should the Administration implement a Venezuelan crude oil import ban: (1) heavy crude oil supply would almost certainly tighten further for US refiners, and (2) Citgo’s US refining and midstream assets could fall into the hands of Russia.

It continues . . .

Quote
An extended US oil import ban against Venezuela could cripple the country’s economy and cause PDVSA to default on its bonds that were restructured last year.  In exchange for a loan from Russian state-owned oil company Rosneft  PDVSA offered up a 49.9% interest in Citgo (PDVSA’s wholly-owned US downstream entity) as collateral.  A default on those bonds would give Rosneft a sizeable interest in Citgo, and it’s not too hard to imagine that the company could easily gain a controlling 50% interest.  Citgo owns and operates three US refineries (Lake Charles, LA; Corpus Christi, TX; Lemont, IL) totaling approximately 750mbd of capacity and other midstream assets including terminals, storage tanks and pipelines.  The alarm bells already sounded in Congress on this potential issue earlier this year in April ’17 as hotly worded letters were sent from bipartisan groups of Senators and Representatives to the Trump Administration warning of serious national security issues should Russia gain control of Citgo.  Thus, there is no doubt that the Administration is clearly aware of the consequences of potentially driving PDVSA to default through onerous sanctions against Venezuela’s oil industry, yet President Trump appears to be positioning to play the import ban card depending on the outcome of the upcoming July 30 election.  So yet another layer may soon be added to the Trump/Russia saga should the US proceed with Venezuelan sanctions as currently being advertised – you can’t make this stuff up.






« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 04:19:14 pm by hostros7 »

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #951 on: July 20, 2017, 04:31:12 pm »
I would have thought Trump would look with admiration towards Maduro if he moved further away from democracy.  Kind of like the rest of his buddies Putin, Erdogan, Assad, El-Sisi and Duterte.  However, I guess he just falls for the dictators Putin allows him to.

This is probably the maxim our old allies use to predict his foreign policy: just look towards what Vlad would want.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #952 on: July 20, 2017, 04:44:38 pm »
President Camacho!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W9FN36iAN0g

Maybe electrolytes will fix our $12-15 a year healthcare system.

Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #953 on: July 21, 2017, 11:59:33 am »
Sean Spicer's gone.  Second shortest tenure for a Press Secretary.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #954 on: July 21, 2017, 12:22:56 pm »
Sean Spicer's gone.  Second shortest tenure for a Press Secretary.

No, look, I'll happily work for a serial liar and lunatic who makes me marionette in front of the global press and say shit that makes me into a worldwide laughingstock and underscores my complete lack of personal integrity. But you hire a communications director?! THAT'S A LINE TOO FAR!
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #955 on: July 21, 2017, 01:03:03 pm »
No, look, I'll happily work for a serial liar and lunatic who makes me marionette in front of the global press and say shit that makes me into a worldwide laughingstock and underscores my complete lack of personal integrity. But you hire a communications director?! THAT'S A LINE TOO FAR!

Petty careerism is the only true principle these frauds have.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #956 on: July 21, 2017, 01:34:38 pm »
Mueller is all over Trump's real estate dealings including the Palm Beach property that he bought in 2004 and sold to a Russian oligarch in 2008, just as Florida real estate prices were crashing, for twice what he'd paid for it.  Anyway, Mueller is all up in Trump's shit and Trump is, apparently, freaking the fuck out about it all.  But Trump can't fire Mueller, only the AG can.  But AG Sessions can't because he's recused from all matters pertaining to the investigation of the campaign, of which he was part, so Trump needs a new AG.

Firing the AG would be controversial so soon into his tenure, so Trump really needs Sessions to resign.  This may explain, then, why he used the NYT to drag Sessions over the coals to the point that his resignation was expected forthwith.  That didn't happen, though, as Sessions decided to stay on and so we can expect another round of house elf-bashing shortly.

Meanwhile, the AG cannot simply fire a Special Prosecutor on a whim.  The AG needs cause, one form of which is a conflict of interest.  The blizzard of reporting in recent days includes the fact that Trump has unleashed his flying monkeys on Mueller's team to dig up as much dirt as possible such that it could be molded in an argument for there being a conflict.  Then, with his shiny new AG installed, there's be a fig leaf of cover over the removal of Mueller.

There are many, many strings to this bow, but it is clear that Mueller is heading in the exact right direction:  Trump's financial dealings with Russians.  He's going after records of Trump's loan dealings with Deutschedramat; he may go after Trump's tax records; he's all over Manafort's incredibly sketchy dealings with Russia and pro-Putin Ukrainians.  He knows what's there and he's going after it.

There's is absolutely no doubt that we are heading for a constitutional crisis of galactic proportions.  Trump is already taking counsel on who he can pardon, up to and including himself.  Even Nixon didn't go there, but you know Trump will.  If he can't fire Mueller, he'll neuter him by pre-pardoning everyone involved, and then the fight will be about the power of the executive branch rather than whether he's a crook and a traitor.  On which side of the argument do you think the Republican congress and the Supreme Court will fall...?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #957 on: July 21, 2017, 03:34:50 pm »
On which side of the argument do you think the Republican congress and the Supreme Court will fall...?

That's the real constitutional crisis.  It's one thing to have the executive branch running amok, but when the other branches of government fail to check or balance the whole system falls apart.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #958 on: July 22, 2017, 08:30:19 pm »
Leaks confirm Sessions talked to Kiskyac about the campaign. We know it's genuine because Trump, instead of calling it "FAKE NEWS" actually retweeted the story.  So now we know that Trump is definitely trying to push out Sessions, and we also know who authorized the leak.

This is all happening so fast. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #959 on: July 23, 2017, 12:06:44 am »
If Trump pushes out Sessions, what are the odds Abbott becomes AG?

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #960 on: July 23, 2017, 01:52:45 am »
If Trump pushes out Sessions, what are the odds Abbott becomes AG?

Hopefully he wheels in that fucking jackass, fake Texan, Dan Patrick with him.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #961 on: July 23, 2017, 03:41:35 am »
If Trump pushes out Sessions, what are the odds Abbott becomes AG?

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #962 on: July 23, 2017, 07:52:49 am »
I see where Trump has nominated former talk show host and Trump campaign bootlick Sam Clovis to be the lead scientist at the USDA.  Though Clovis has absolutely zero scientific pedigree, and the specific Congressional requirements are  "a distinguished scientist", Trump says Clovis is from Iowa, so that oughtta do it.  No confirmation on the rumor that Trump plans to replace the Air Force One pilot with a pipefitter from Toledo because "he's from Ohio, and that's 'the birthplace of aviation'".
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #963 on: July 24, 2017, 08:16:42 am »
If Trump pushes out Sessions, what are the odds Abbott becomes AG?

The first time Trump mocks his affliction will be equal parts abhorrent and hilarious.  Every time after that it will just be depressing.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #964 on: July 24, 2017, 09:22:45 am »
Doesn't Trump use some ex- NYC cop as his bodyguard and all-around confidante.  You know, they guy he made deliver the letter to Comey.  Trump will likely nominate him for AG.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #965 on: July 24, 2017, 10:15:01 am »
Doesn't Trump use some ex- NYC cop as his bodyguard and all-around confidante.  You know, they guy he made deliver the letter to Comey.  Trump will likely nominate him for AG.

His former bodyguard, Keith Schiller, is now the Director of Oval Office Operations - whatever the fuck that is - with an office in the White House, a salary, awesome tax-payer-funded healthcare and everything.

You are correct that he was the one who delivered the letter firing Comey to the place Comey wasn't - missing him by about 3,000 miles - and is also up to his neck in the Russia scandal.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 03:43:16 pm by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #966 on: July 25, 2017, 08:27:31 am »
So who saw this coming:  Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III is the firewall between Trump and a constitutional crisis.

Basically, Trump wants Sessions gone forthwith but doesn't want to fire him.  So he's running down Sessions in front of anyone who'll listen in the hopes Sessions will quit.  Then, with Congress in recess, Trump gets to pick whomever the fuck he wants to be AG, who can then serve without Senate confirmation through to 2019.  Obviously, Job #1 for the new AG would be to fire Mueller on whatever conflict of interest smears they can invent.

At that point, the spotlight will fall full force onto Congressional Republicans who will, of course, yield to the whim of their Boy King.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #967 on: July 25, 2017, 08:30:58 am »
Meanwhile, Kushner - the smartest man on the planet tasked with fixing everything - gave a hilarious statement to the Senate yesterday in which he excused his failure to disclose over 100 contacts with foreigners and dozens of investments because...he's crap at this and his assistant did it and sorry and everything but he new at this and he didn't know any better.  Basically, the dog ate his homework.

Also, despite Trump's unfailing confidence in Kushner's so far hidden talents, he's one of the least impressive individuals I've ever seen behind a microphone.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #968 on: July 25, 2017, 08:45:22 am »
Last update this morning:  it's also kill Obamacare (and a few hundred thousand Americans) Day!  The Senate will vote to proceed on the House bill and, if successful, will then vote to replace it in its entirety, and then vote on a Senate bill that has yet to be seen by anyone outside McConnell's office.  Even the #2 and #3 Republicans in the Senate - as of last night - were ignorant as to what was going to be in the Senate bill today.

They've even dragged an ailing John McCain out of hospital - fresh from life-saving, tax-payer funded treatment - to help them reach the 50 votes they need to take health insurance away from either 22, 23 or 32 million Americans, depending on which horror story McConnell drops on the Senate floor.

Whichever bill they go with, the House bill, the Senate bill or the straight repeal and go home bill, they all have a ticking time bomb built in.  Insurance works by pooling the premiums of the many to pay for the losses of the few so, if you don't force healthy people to buy insurance, the pool is filled only with people making claims so premiums spike, deductibles spike, limits and coverage shrink and insurers go bust or flee the market (the sensationally dubbed "death spiral").  Obamacare dealt with this by taking the Heritage Foundation's idea of an individual mandate.  Republicans now hate this (because...Kenya?) so their solution was the nasty idea that if you'd lost coverage and want it back, you'd have to wait 6 months before you got it (that'll teach you for being poor and/or sick).  Well the Parliamentarian has told them that they cannot put this in a reconciliation bill, so both it and the individual mandate will be gone if they pass anything today.  Death spiral here we come!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 08:49:10 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #969 on: July 25, 2017, 08:54:53 am »
I'd encourage anyone interested to read about his speech at the annual Boy Scout Jamboree.  "Inappropriate" doesn't even begin to describe it.  It's sad, embarrassing, hilarious, disgusting and unsurprising all at the same time.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #970 on: July 25, 2017, 09:18:28 am »
I'd encourage anyone interested to read about his speech at the annual Boy Scout Jamboree.  "Inappropriate" doesn't even begin to describe it.  It's sad, embarrassing, hilarious, disgusting and unsurprising all at the same time.

I liked the part where he debated with himself whether to tell a bunch of boy scouts what his rich friend got up to on his yacht (wink wink).  Mahjong, maybe?  Or the (mild) swearing.  Or the bitching about Washington.  Or the cries for loyalty. Or the calls for the non-voting age kids to call a particular Senator over the healthcare bill.

All in all, a tour de force.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #971 on: July 25, 2017, 09:39:39 am »
I'd encourage anyone interested to read about his speech at the annual Boy Scout Jamboree.  "Inappropriate" doesn't even begin to describe it.  It's sad, embarrassing, hilarious, disgusting and unsurprising all at the same time.

And don't forget the time that Trump apparently used his charity to pay for his kids' boy scout registration:

[The Trump Foundation's] smallest-ever gift, for $7, was paid to the Boy Scouts in 1989, at a time when it cost $7 to register a new Scout. Trump’s oldest son was 11 at the time.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #972 on: July 25, 2017, 10:14:16 am »
Insurance works by pooling the premiums of the many to pay for the losses of the few so, if you don't force healthy people to buy insurance, the pool is filled only with people making claims so premiums spike, deductibles spike, limits and coverage shrink and insurers go bust or flee the market (the sensationally dubbed "death spiral"). 
While I generally support the democrats, they are absolutely inept.  This debate should be much more sophisticated, and I maintain it would be if the democrats were good at their job.  It's been seven years and the average Joe still doesn't understand the basic tradeoffs of health care.  Similarly, the idea of trickle down economics (30 years with this idea) is deeply intertwined in this debate and still discussed by people with a straight face.  That is a another huge failure of the democrats.

If the republicans want to repeal the ACA and take away insurance, just be honest about it.  Publicly write a law that states: "If you don't have insurance and thus haven't received any scheduled health care, and your health deteriorates to the point where you seek emergency care, don't go to the hospital as we will ensure that you don't get treatment.  That is the law." Otherwise, we are right back to where we were: an inefficient system where the those with money and/or the foresight to purchase insurance subsidize health care.  And due to the tax repeal, the subsidy will fall less on the super wealthy.  We will also return to society where many folks go broke if someone in the family gets sick.  But people apparently don't get this; otherwise, it would be at the core of this debate.

In the simplest terms, either the nation provides health care or it doesn't and if we do, who pays?  Basically, the ACA said that the nation will provide health care and it will be paid mostly by the super wealthy.  Now, the super-wealthy republican donors are pissed at footing the bill.  The argument they still use is trickle down theory: If the government doesn't take their money, then they will create jobs and the middle class and poor will then have enough money to pay for their own health care.  This theory has proven to be complete crap for thirty years and yet, it is still routinely used.  That is a massive failing by the democrats.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #973 on: July 25, 2017, 10:21:30 am »
And don't forget the time that Trump apparently used his charity to pay for his kids' boy scout registration:

[The Trump Foundation's] smallest-ever gift, for $7, was paid to the Boy Scouts in 1989, at a time when it cost $7 to register a new Scout. Trump’s oldest son was 11 at the time.


Grifters gotta grift.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #974 on: July 25, 2017, 10:30:32 am »
While I generally support the democrats, they are absolutely inept.  This debate should be much more sophisticated, and I maintain it would be if the democrats were good at their job.  It's been seven years and the average Joe still doesn't understand the basic tradeoffs of health care.  Similarly, the idea of trickle down economics (30 years with this idea) is deeply intertwined in this debate and still discussed by people with a straight face.  That is a another huge failure of the democrats.

If the republicans want to repeal the ACA and take away insurance, just be honest about it.  Publicly write a law that states: "If you don't have insurance and thus haven't received any scheduled health care, and your health deteriorates to the point where you seek emergency care, don't go to the hospital as we will ensure that you don't get treatment.  That is the law." Otherwise, we are right back to where we were: an inefficient system where the those with money and/or the foresight to purchase insurance subsidize health care.  And due to the tax repeal, the subsidy will fall less on the super wealthy.  We will also return to society where many folks go broke if someone in the family gets sick.  But people apparently don't get this; otherwise, it would be at the core of this debate.

In the simplest terms, either the nation provides health care or it doesn't and if we do, who pays?  Basically, the ACA said that the nation will provide health care and it will be paid mostly by the super wealthy.  Now, the super-wealthy republican donors are pissed at footing the bill.  The argument they still use is trickle down theory: If the government doesn't take their money, then they will create jobs and the middle class and poor will then have enough money to pay for their own health care.  This theory has proven to be complete crap for thirty years and yet, it is still routinely used.  That is a massive failing by the democrats.


You are absolutely right about the failure of Democrats to get their message across; the poster child for this malaise being Pelosi's "we've got to pass the bill so you can see what's in it" labia-stomp.  Obama was the best at messaging but he was - for the chunk of the country who benefited the most from the ACA - the wrong messenger.  They need to get better, and job #1 is to gracefully retire Pelosi as House Leader.  Nothing personal here, but they just got their hat handed to them by the worst candidate ever because they backed a party establishment septuagenarian with sizable negative polling.

They need a new face to lead the party into the mid-terms or they'll lose to the same hackneyed arguments of the last 20 years.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #975 on: July 25, 2017, 10:32:46 am »
While I generally support the democrats, they are absolutely inept.

I can't imagine there is anything a Republican could do that would surprise me with respect to his or her amoral, craven depravity and, well, just basic cruelty. But for some reason I continue to be amazed at the Democrats' near complete political incompetence. I suppose that must be a personal failing of mine.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #976 on: July 25, 2017, 10:41:57 am »
And don't forget the time that Trump apparently used his charity to pay for his kids' boy scout registration:

[The Trump Foundation's] smallest-ever gift, for $7, was paid to the Boy Scouts in 1989, at a time when it cost $7 to register a new Scout. Trump’s oldest son was 11 at the time.

Beyond parody.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #977 on: July 25, 2017, 11:25:33 am »
Bench, I hadn't heard that one before, that's great. All you can do is shake your head sometimes.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #978 on: July 25, 2017, 03:19:25 pm »
Trump: "We ended up with 51 votes, 51 to...whatever. I don't know what it is."

Not a joke. This is the actual President.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #979 on: July 25, 2017, 03:21:16 pm »
Trump: "We ended up with 51 votes, 51 to...whatever. I don't know what it is."

Not a joke. This is the actual President.


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Wait, what's the context of this?  The Boy Scouts speech?  Wow.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #980 on: July 25, 2017, 03:21:32 pm »
Hey it's tough to do math like that in your cabeza.  Rick Perry couldn't either.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #981 on: July 25, 2017, 03:23:55 pm »
Trump: "We ended up with 51 votes, 51 to...whatever. I don't know what it is."

Not a joke. This is the actual President.


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Even if he thought about it he would still probably come up with 49, which is incorrect.

And hey, Mr. Happy?  This is what you've been saying "we have to pass the bill to see what's in it" actually looks like. 
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #982 on: July 25, 2017, 03:48:12 pm »
Wait, what's the context of this?  The Boy Scouts speech?  Wow.

No, he was at a press conference with Lebanese PM Hariri.

The same press conference where he said that Lebanon is "on the front lines of the fight against ISIS, Al-Qaeda, and Hezbollah."

Hariri is allied with Hezbollah.



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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #983 on: July 25, 2017, 03:50:00 pm »
You can't make it up.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #984 on: July 25, 2017, 03:54:59 pm »
No, he was at a press conference with Lebanese PM Hariri.

The same press conference where he said that Lebanon is "on the front lines of the fight against ISIS, Al-Qaeda, and Hezbollah."

Hariri is allied with Hezbollah.

I haven't seen news since this AM.  Good to know the grownups are in charge of ME policy.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #985 on: July 26, 2017, 08:02:21 am »
I haven't seen news since this AM.  Good to know the grownups are in charge of ME policy.

Yes, it's Jared.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #986 on: July 26, 2017, 08:12:04 am »
So, John McCain.  *Sigh*

In the movies, the ailing Senator rises from his sick bed, gives a barn-burning speech excoriating his miscreant colleagues and then casts the pivotal "No" vote to stop an outrage from being perpetrated.  This ain't the movies.  McCain's speech, righteous as it was, came just after he'd cast the pivotal "Yes" vote that allowed this fiasco to continue.

In his speech he decried the current partisanship where neither party will work with the other and demanded a return to "regular order" where bills are vetted through committees and hearings, and have debates on the floor.  He said he'd voted to allow debate here but would not vote for the bill; a curious stance because voting "No" would've forced his party's leadership to return to "regular order" if it wanted to continue to tilt against the ACA.

Then the BCRA came to the floor for a vote mere hours later - having bypassed the committees and hearings and debate - and McCain voted "Yes".  WTF?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #987 on: July 26, 2017, 08:15:31 am »
So, John McCain.  *Sigh*

In the movies, the ailing Senator rises from his sick bed, gives a barn-burning speech excoriating his miscreant colleagues and then casts the pivotal "No" vote to stop an outrage from being perpetrated.  This ain't the movies.  McCain's speech, righteous as it was, came just after he'd cast the pivotal "Yes" vote that allowed this fiasco to continue.

In his speech he decried the current partisanship where neither party will work with the other and demanded a return to "regular order" where bills are vetted through committees and hearings, and have debates on the floor.  He said he'd voted to allow debate here but would not vote for the bill; a curious stance because voting "No" would've forced his party's leadership to return to "regular order" if it wanted to continue to tilt against the ACA.

Then the BCRA came to the floor for a vote mere hours later - having bypassed the committees and hearings and debate - and McCain voted "Yes".  WTF?

Am I understanding this, a politician lied?
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #988 on: July 26, 2017, 08:51:56 am »
Am I understanding this, a politician lied?

McCain has a storied past, but he's in danger of burying that legacy under the pile of crap he's laying in the present.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #989 on: July 26, 2017, 09:44:21 am »
John McCain could give a stirring speech on the evils of adultery, while he was fucking another man's wife, and the media would celebrate his family values.


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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #990 on: July 26, 2017, 10:19:41 am »
And hey, Mr. Happy?  This is what you've been saying "we have to pass the bill to see what's in it" actually looks like.

Republicans continue to prove that all of their criticisms of Obama, Democrats and their policies were simply projection.  They are doing everything that they said their opponents were doing (but mostly weren't).  Their behavior around healthcare is the most egregious example (to date).

The Pelosi quote was her speaking to the public trying to explain that the benefits of the ACA would become clear to them once enacted, because there was so much smoke being blown about it in Washington that it was impossible for the public to see the truth.  This was then taken completely out of context by conservatives who presented it as if she'd said this on the House floor (see also "build that, you didn't").  The ACA went through 14 months of debate, committees (remember the Gang of Six?), hearings and amendments, which then passed the Senate with 60 votes.

Contrast that to this Republican effort - like Medicare Part D before it - which is being rammed home in the manner they imagined the ACA was.  Also, remember how Obama was a traitor to our values, wanted to yield sovereignty to a foreign power, played too much golf, went on too many tax-payer funded vacations and had a wife who'd bare her arms?  Yeah, exactly.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 10:28:49 am by Limey »
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #991 on: July 26, 2017, 11:23:35 am »
Meanwhile Trump issued a twitter policy statement summarily banning transgender people from the military.  It also happens to be the anniversary of the day Truman desegregated the military.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #992 on: July 26, 2017, 12:05:02 pm »
It also happens to be the anniversary of the day Truman desegregated the military.

I often wonder whether a guy like Bannon or Miller knows this and that accounts for the timing or if things are so haywire over there that you'll just inevitably find interesting intersections with respect to their gratuitous cruelty.
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Limey

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #993 on: July 26, 2017, 12:28:47 pm »
I often wonder whether a guy like Bannon or Miller knows this and that accounts for the timing or if things are so haywire over there that you'll just inevitably find interesting intersections with respect to their gratuitous cruelty.

It's hard to know.  A functional White House would be on top of such things, and not make such announcements against starkly contradictory historical events; so it could be just incompetence.  But then Bannon, particularly, is a horrific individual who gets his rocks off being such a monstrous dick; so it could be just a big "fuck you" to Truman.

Miller, I suspect, would have to Google "Truman".
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #994 on: July 26, 2017, 12:38:17 pm »
Miller, I suspect, would have to Google "Truman".

...and then rant for hours about what a cuck Jim Carrey is.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #995 on: July 26, 2017, 01:52:34 pm »
...and then rant for hours about what a cuck Jim Carrey is.
No dude, that was Philip Seymour Hoffman. I liked, In Cold Blood.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #996 on: July 26, 2017, 03:49:53 pm »
Straight repeal just went down 45-55.  For the record, McCain was one of the Republicans voting against it.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #997 on: July 26, 2017, 06:14:22 pm »
I often wonder whether a guy like Bannon or Miller knows this and that accounts for the timing or if things are so haywire over there that you'll just inevitably find interesting intersections with respect to their gratuitous cruelty.
Comical ineptitude or outright maliciousness?  Unfortunately there's no Option C.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #998 on: July 26, 2017, 07:02:33 pm »
Straight repeal just went down 45-55.  For the record, McCain was one of the Republicans voting against it.

Why would MM force this vote? Seems to give Thor's hammer to primary challengers.

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #999 on: July 26, 2017, 08:29:49 pm »
Why would MM force this vote? Seems to give Thor's hammer to primary challengers.

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I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.