Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

As the twig is bent the tree inclines. Young twigs are easy to mold. As the tree matures it's tougher to bend. It'll resist sometimes to the point of breaking. 

“In a garden, things grow . . . but first, they must wither; trees have to lose their leaves in order to put forth new leaves, and to grow thicker and stronger and taller. Some trees die, but fresh saplings replace them. Gardens need a lot of care. But if you love your garden, you don’t mind working in it, and waiting. Then in the proper season you will surely see it flourish.”

[Noe]

Probably a few high-fives going around for not having to go to school today.

Or maybe hiding in the basement today because of death threats. Maybe not, then again, maybe so. Social media, what a great thing this is.

[BudGirl]

I agree with the argument you're making except you interjected your own opinion on these kids based on a bias and predisposition with know exactly what they are sitting there doing. You may be right about what you said in the last sentence, but have you considered that you just might be wrong too?

We've all interjected our own opinion based on a bias and predisposition, even you.  Have you considered that you may be wrong?

[TeeJoe]

“In a garden, things grow . . . but first, they must wither; trees have to lose their leaves in order to put forth new leaves, and to grow thicker and stronger and taller. Some trees die, but fresh saplings replace them. Gardens need a lot of care. But if you love your garden, you don’t mind working in it, and waiting. Then in the proper season you will surely see it flourish.”

I grow tomatoes. You always cut-off the suckers. Pruning is painful but produces the greatest yield.

[Noe]

Fine, you think those kids are just stupid.  But, I also think kids learn from the actions of the adults around them.  So, if you think they are going to be taught a lesson at home, you have more faith in their families than I do.

Based on what BG, a cap? Are you projecting some sort of family life that is spurring these kids on to be stupid? I do no like the cap either, but this was not a Nazi rally and social media took it and ran with it as if the people who posted opinions knew these kids intimately. They could be right and then again, they could be very, very, very wrong about these stupid kids.  Perhaps? Maybe? If so, can we just all step away from tossing stones at kids we do not know personally and take a minute to remember how we were as 16 year olds and how we needed help to grow by significant people in our lives, not some social media mob?

And saying the action of someone is wrong doesn't mean you are throwing a stone (judging) them.

You used the word punishment as many have said on social media. Go ahead and punish away if you feel justified that they deserved it. Ridicule is a form of punishment, but probably more in line with bullying tactics. Like I said, I'm not getting in the way of mob who wants to punish these kids, it's already gone too far for common sense and decency to take hold. That is the social media we all live in.

[Noe]

But from what can be seen at this point, I don't agree all of them acted like dumbasses.

[sarc meter]Careful, you're lying when you don't say they are all "young racist freaks"! [/sarc meter]

[BudGirl]

Based on what BG, a cap? Are you projecting some sort of family life that is spurring these kids on to be stupid? I do no like the cap either, but this was not a Nazi rally and social media took it and ran with it as if the people who posted opinions knew these kids intimately. They could be right and then again, they could be very, very, very wrong about these stupid kids.  Perhaps? Maybe? If so, can we just all step away from tossing stones at kids we do not know personally and take a minute to remember how we were as 16 year olds and how we needed help to grow by significant people in our lives, not some social media mob?

You used the word punishment as many have said on social media. Go ahead and punish away if you feel justified that they deserved it. Ridicule is a form of punishment, but probably more in line with bullying tactics. Like I said, I'm not getting in the way of mob who wants to punish these kids, it's already gone too far for common sense and decency to take hold. That is the social media we all live in.

yes

[Noe]

We've all interjected our own opinion based on a bias and predisposition, even you.  Have you considered that you may be wrong?

Agreed! Finally! We all agree we don't know shit about these kids, we all just have our predisposition to dislike or excuse stupidity. What a great world we live in when we understand each other fully.

Nothing is true, everything is opinion.

So, why don't we all stay out and let adults in their lives handle this teachable moment as it should be. We can't call them Nazis nor can we call them Saints.

[Tom Servo]

So we can *excuse* how we grew up Tom but 16 year old males can't today? Porn was okay back then because we didn't know better. Porn not okay today because we now know better? Is that it?

I don't exactly get your point.  What does porn have to do with anything?  Are you on a crusade against porn?  What's wrong with porn? 

And I wasn't excusing anything about how I grew up.  I didn't make jokes about rape when I was 16, either.  I'm saying it's even MORE ridiculous now, in light of the #metoo movement.  You seem to just want to hand out get out of jail free cards to all 16 year olds, because hey, they're young.  They have absolutely no responsibility for what they say or do.  It's that damn social media and cell phone cameras.  Shame on them!

Go out and do whatever the fuck you want, 16 year olds!  There are NO repercussions. 

Don't get me wrong, I certainly am not advocating hunting him down and threatening with violence, but if the little fucker get shamed a bit on social media, so be it.

[chuck]

Fine, you think those kids are just stupid.  But, I also think kids learn from the actions of the adults around them.  So, if you think they are going to be taught a lesson at home, you have more faith in their families than I do.

Exactly. They learn bigotry at home, it gets reinforced at school (where they obviously get a extra serving of misogyny), so by all means let's rely on the parents and authority figures in these boys' lives to mold them into compassionate adults.

[Nate Colbert]

Fine, you think those kids are just stupid.  But, I also think kids learn from the actions of the adults around them.  So, if you think they are going to be taught a lesson at home, you have more faith in their families than I do.

This.

[Noe]

I don't exactly get your point.  What does porn have to do with anything?  Are you on a crusade against porn?  What's wrong with porn?

What's wrong with porn? Are you serious?

And I wasn't excusing anything about how I grew up.  I didn't make jokes about rape when I was 16, either.

So you want to only concentrate on rape comments when you were sixteen, all other stupidity is hands off, I was just a kid? I don't understand this, we want to use one item as reasonable to condemn but not other? Look for all I know you never said anything to objectify women or said anything like "nigger" to a black friend or called someone a "faggot" (in Limey's case, it's excusable, because "faggot" means cigarette). If so, yeah, you're good, go ahead and throw a stone at the rape commenting kid, he deserves it from you.

I'm saying it's even MORE ridiculous now, in light of the #metoo movement.  You seem to just want to hand out get out of jail free cards to all 16 year olds, because hey, they're young.  They have absolutely no responsibility for what they say or do.  It's that damn social media and cell phone cameras.  Shame on them!

I'm saying we forget we were 16 once and said as hateful things as these stupid kids did. Is that a wrong statement? So as such, can we remember what it was like to be 16 and stupid and maybe use that a light to cast on these kids. And accountability and punishment (if there is any to come) is better served by people in their lives who mean something to them, not a social media mob.

Go out and do whatever the fuck you want, 16 year olds!  There are NO repercussions.

Yeah, wasn't growing up in our day great! 

Don't get me wrong, I certainly am not advocating hunting him down and threatening with violence, but if the little fucker get shamed a bit on social media, so be it.

So you've made my point, we didn't get shamed on social media for being "little fuckers" at 16 because there was nothing to hold us accountable to the free world other than our friend Billy telling our Moms what we said about his Mom and such. We were lucky Tom. And we get to participate in shaming little fuckers too, as if we never did the same! Great world we live in. I love Social Media!

[Noe]

Exactly. They learn bigotry at home, it gets reinforced at school (where they obviously get a extra serving of misogyny), so by all means let's rely on the parents and authority figures in these boys' lives to mold them into compassionate adults.

In your narrow view of the world. So did you learn to be an asshole at home? I don't think so, I won't dare presume I know that for a fact. But I do know you are an asshole.

[Limey]

Fine, you think those kids are just stupid.  But, I also think kids learn from the actions of the adults around them.  So, if you think they are going to be taught a lesson at home, you have more faith in their families than I do.

And saying the action of someone is wrong doesn't mean you are throwing a stone (judging) them.

The man that makes and sells the MAGA hats is piss-poor example of a human being...and their hero.

[Ty in Tampa]

I wonder what would make someone go out of their way to defend these youths for their actions, regardless of the snippet or angle or length of the video you chose to view. These are high school kids bussed to DC to take part in a political act, the March for Lives, sponsored by a private Catholic school. They chose to make political statements by wearing their MAGA hats, which are decidedly pro-Trump (spare me the fake wonderment about the baked-in symbolism) and then decided it was a good idea to mesh with an Indigenous People's March. What amount of youthful indiscretion would make anyone think this was a good idea if not for malicious intent? You really have to reach pretty far to think that what these kids did was just hijinks.

Oh, I know why some will reach those lengths. Because they can; they feel emboldened. Had these been kids from an inner-city public school peppered with ebony and shade, the overwhelming narrative from these same people would have been to crush and condemn. It's so transparent.

Maybe you're for Donald Trump. Maybe you're against abortion rights. Maybe you're Catholic. Maybe you just like being contrary. Defending the actions of these youths is dangerous and wrong and most people deep-down know this. If you honestly believe they were "just being kids" then I really don't know what to say. I suppose we get the society we deserve.

[Noe]

This.

Social media is the better solution. It takes a village.

[Tom Servo]

What's wrong with porn? Are you serious?

So you want to only concentrate on rape comments when you were sixteen, all other stupidity is hands off, I was just a kid? I don't understand this, we want to use one item as reasonable to condemn but not other? Look for all I know you never said anything to objectify women or said anything like "nigger" to a black friend or called someone a "faggot" (in Limey's case, it's excusable, because "faggot" means cigarette). If so, yeah, you're good, go ahead and throw a stone at the rape commenting kid, he deserves it from you.

I'm saying we forget we were 16 once and said as hateful things as these stupid kids did. Is that a wrong statement? So as such, can we remember what it was like to be 16 and stupid and maybe use that a light to cast on these kids. And accountability and punishment (if there is any to come) is better served by people in their lives who mean something to them, not a social media mob.

Yeah, wasn't growing up in our day great! 

So you've made my point, we didn't get shamed on social media for being "little fuckers" at 16 because there was nothing to hold us accountable to the free world other than our friend Billy telling our Moms what we said about his Mom and such. We were lucky Tom. And we get to participate in shaming little fuckers too, as if we never did the same! Great world we live in. I love Social Media!

No, I did not do the fucking same, Noe.  Get over it.  Stop trying to project whatever awful thing you must have done at 16 on everyone else to make yourself feel better.  Not all 16 year olds are assholes. 

[Nate Colbert]

It takes a village.

I had thought earlier about posting something along those lines. Except my post wouldn't have required turning on the sarc meter.

[Noe]

I wonder what would make someone go out of their way to defend these youths for their actions, regardless of the snippet or angle or length of the video you chose to view. These are high school kids bussed to DC to take part in a political act, the March for Lives, sponsored by a private Catholic school. They chose to make political statements by wearing their MAGA hats, which are decidedly pro-Trump (spare me the fake wonderment about the baked-in symbolism) and then decided it was a good idea to mesh with an Indigenous People's March.

Wrong. The IPM decided to mesh with them as they waited for their bus. The IPM said they did this because another group also decided to assault these kids verbally. Just trying to keep facts in the equation so as to make it much more truthful than just a viewpoint of an event based on bias over a stupid cap worn by stupid kids.

What amount of youthful indiscretion would make anyone think this was a good idea if not for malicious intent? You really have to reach pretty far to think that what these kids did was just hijinks.

This narrative has been proven wrong. They did not approach nor mesh nor engage anyone. They were engaged by two adult groups, one of which spewed hate and vile insults. Most of them homophobic. But it seems it is better to talk about 16 year olds with MAGA caps than to talk about Black Men who spew hate and the IPM whose leader did not correctly talk about what happened until much later. The IPM does not say that they were in any way accosted by the young cap wearers, they say they went into their crowd to sing over them. Period.

Oh, I know why some will reach those lengths. Because they can; they feel emboldened. Had these been kids from an inner-city public school peppered with ebony and shade, the overwhelming narrative from these same people would have been to crush and condemn. It's so transparent.

Actrually, I'm glad you brought this up. I've worked as a volunteer for inner city kids in Houston. One I didn't reach and is serving a life sentence in jail for murdering a man. Another I did reach and the proudest day in my life was when I read in the Chronicle that this kid donated bone marrow to help others. Great kid who grew up in the most horrible of situations. Yet I was able, along with others to reach him.

So 16 year olds who wear crip colors or MAGA caps are still just kids who need help from significant people in their lives. I'm glad social media wasn't around to condemn my kid who donated bone marrow simply because he was a gang member.

Maybe you're for Donald Trump. Maybe you're against abortion rights. Maybe you're Catholic. Maybe you just like being contrary. Defending the actions of these youths is dangerous and wrong and most people deep-down know this. If you honestly believe they were "just being kids" then I really don't know what to say. I suppose we get the society we deserve.

Yeah, lets go round up all the Crips, Bloods, and M13 kids right now and toss them away. Those people who work with them don't know better than us on Social Media! We are the arbitrators of truth and justice.

[Noe]

The man that makes and sells the MAGA hats is piss-poor example of a human being...and their hero.

My uncle was my hero growing up. He was also a wife beater and assaulted my cousin many times. He stopped being my hero. Because I grew up. He died two weeks ago and I cried because of it.

[Noe]

No, I did not do the fucking same, Noe.  Get over it.  Stop trying to project whatever awful thing you must have done at 16 on everyone else to make yourself feel better.  Not all 16 year olds are assholes.

Cool, cast the first and even last stone if you'd like.

[Noe]

I had thought earlier about posting something along those lines. Except my post wouldn't have required turning on the sarc meter.

No sarc meter needed. There are some social reformers who do believe this. As a parent, this might be the one thing that would make me prone to violence if because of a social mandate, my parenting is overridden by a social media scorecard.

Sounds like a dystopian future, doesn't it?

[Ty in Tampa]

Perhaps one's time is better spent reaching kids than arguing on social media.

[Noe]

Perhaps one's time is better spent reaching kids than arguing on social media.

OH MAN, this!!!!!!!

[Nate Colbert]

As a parent, this might be the one thing that would make me prone to violence if because of a social mandate, my parenting is overridden by a social media scorecard.

Mandate? Since when did sharing opinions morph into a mandate?

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I don't exactly get your point.  What does porn have to do with anything?  Are you on a crusade against porn?  What's wrong with porn? 

There's no arguing with him. You must only submit to the education he condescends to give. If you are meek enough and lucky, you may even get a ding ding ding in return.

[Noe]

Mandate? Since when did sharing opinions morph into a mandate?

Things become actionable on social media nowadays in case you did not notice. The reaction on Saturday night was indeed over the top and it eventually included death threats. This social media experiment, it isn't as fall-safe as one might think.

[Noe]

There's no arguing with him.

So don't. Simple enough.

You must only submit to the education he condescends to give. If you are meek enough and lucky, you may even get a ding ding ding in return.

Better than the delightful circle jerking off of each other I see in this. Facts? No, we donn need no stinkeen facts!

[Ty in Tampa]

Shitting on the board doesn't make you win at chess but it sure ends the game.

[Noe]

Shitting on the board doesn't make you win at chess but it sure ends the game.

Opinion or fact? Do you want me to leave, just say so and I will. Sorry to offer a difference of opinion on this and interject some facts as I read them. Say the word, I'm out. Hey, lets have a social media vote on it!

[Nate Colbert]

This social media experiment, it isn't as fall-safe as one might think.

After the manipulation of an election, I think we all kinda get that by now.

[Noe]

After the manipulation of an election, I think we all kinda get that by now.

DING, DING, DING... oh wait, did I just insult you by doing that? Sorry. But because I do not like Trump (at all), I hold true that Trump used social media to rally his base by villianizing others. He knows as well as anyone else how to play this social media game. And he will continue to do so. And people will do the same because you need to fight fire with fire... whoever gets hurt be damned. Trumpters who rally to everything he says on social media will then react without taking time to realize that the story isn't as cut and dry as they may think. That now we want to do the same speaks to how we can be duped into being just like the evil we hate.

So we agree entirely on this, no?

[Nate Colbert]

Better than the delightful circle jerking off of each other I see in this.

Colorful...yes. Insulting, painting with the broadest of brushes and completely inaccurate...also yes.

[Noe]

Colorful...yes. Insulting, painting with the broadest of brushes and completely inaccurate...also yes.

Agree, being called a liar for no reason isn't fun when trying to discuss something.

[Limey]

Here's a fun fact:  the country's national security apparatus is in the shitter and already half way around the bend.  Forget (for now, more below) that FBI agents are working without pay, it also means that they aren't able to run drug stings; they can't pay gang informants; their translators are furloughed, so intel intercepts are piling up without anyone knowing what the fuck criminals and terrorists are saying to each other; federal prosecutors can't get grand jury subpoenas or indictments.

And this may be a feature, not a bug.  Every FBI agent, and many levels of federal employees, have to pass a background check.  A big part of that is to make sure that they are financially healthy, and thus less susceptible to bribery and corruption.  It's for this reason that Jared fucking Kushner can't pass the background check.  So, if you take all the FBI, and don't pay them for a month or two, what do you think that does to their finances?

We are seeing the truth of the American Dream being laid bare here.  Even federal employees - the poster children for middle class, white collar workers - are one or two paychecks away from a crippling financial disaster and a shitstain on their credit record that will last a lifetime.  But what happens to these people when their next background check refresh comes along?  There's going to be a number who will now fail because their finances got shit on by Trump, and now they're out.

This is how you force people out of federal employment.  This is how you empty out the FBI.  This is how you suppress recruitment of good candidates.  This is how you tilt the scale in favor of the lawless.  This is how you give Papy Putin and pill-free boner.

#MAGA

[Bench]

Here's a fun fact:  the country's national security apparatus is in the shitter and already half way around the bend.  Forget (for now, more below) that FBI agents are working without pay, it also means that they aren't able to run drug stings; they can't pay gang informants; their translators are furloughed, so intel intercepts are piling up without anyone knowing what the fuck criminals and terrorists are saying to each other; federal prosecutors can't get grand jury subpoenas or indictments.

And this may be a feature, not a bug.  Every FBI agent, and many levels of federal employees, have to pass a background check.  A big part of that is to make sure that they are financially healthy, and thus less susceptible to bribery and corruption.  It's for this reason that Jared fucking Kushner can't pass the background check.  So, if you take all the FBI, and don't pay them for a month or two, what do you think that does to their finances?

We are seeing the truth of the American Dream being laid bare here.  Even federal employees - the poster children for middle class, white collar workers - are one or two paychecks away from a crippling financial disaster and a shitstain on their credit record that will last a lifetime.  But what happens to these people when their next background check refresh comes along?  There's going to be a number who will now fail because their finances got shit on by Trump, and now they're out.

This is how you force people out of federal employment.  This is how you empty out the FBI.  This is how you suppress recruitment of good candidates.  This is how you tilt the scale in favor of the lawless.  This is how you give Papy Putin and pill-free boner.

#MAGA

It's not and never has been about the wall. It is about the subversion of democracy.

[Tom Servo]

Cool, cast the first and even last stone if you'd like.

Just wanted to note, you are in effect calling me a liar.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Perhaps one's time is better spent reaching kids Black Hebrew Israelites than arguing on social media.

FIFY

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

It's not and never has been about the wall. It is about the subversion of democracy.

I agree with this. I also think both sides are guilty.

[Nate Colbert]

DING, DING, DING... oh wait, did I just insult you by doing that?

Oh you don't know how proud I am to be among the meek and lucky.

[Nate Colbert]

I also think both sides are guilty.

Bull and shit, sir.

[Limey]

I agree with this. I also think both sides are guilty.

Not even fucking close.  The President has decided to inflict harm on the country in order to force a co-equal branch of government to bend to his will, and not that of the people who don’t want the wall and just gave Democrats the biggest mid-term mandate in history. 

This is one side not handling reality at all. 

[Tom Servo]

Not even fucking close.  The President has decided to inflict harm on the country in order to force a co-equal branch of government to bend to his will, and not that of the people who don’t want the wall and just gave Democrats the biggest mid-term mandate in history. 

This is one side not handling reality at all.

One side hasn't handled reality since the introduction of Fox News.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Failing to recognize the culpability of both parties is failing to understand the dynamics of politics and the history that got us to this point. You're the better dancer so you blame your dance partner for losing the dance contest. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Failing to recognize the culpability of both parties is failing to understand the dynamics of politics and the history that got us to this point. You're the better dancer so you blame your dance partner for losing the dance contest.

Don't get me too wrong, Trump is the kid that doesn't like who the teacher assigned for him to dance with so he dances around like a shit throwing chimp.

[Ty in Tampa]

Failing to recognize the culpability of both parties is failing to understand the dynamics of politics and the history that got us to this point. You're the better dancer so you blame your dance partner for losing the dance contest. 

More like "you're the better dancer so you blame your partner for poisoning the judges."

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

More like "you're the better dancer so you blame your partner for poisoning the judges."

I'll take that. That is even better.

[Ty in Tampa]

I'll take that. That is even better.

Of course, your partner did poison the judge.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Of course, your partner did poison the judge.

It didn't kill the judge, just made him crazy in a couple of three swing states.

[jbm]

What's judge even mean?  I think everybody is equally flawed.  I can't begin to distinguish between things.  How would one do that anyway?  Does it take effort? 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

What's judge even mean?  I think everybody is equally flawed.  I can't begin to distinguish between things.  How would one do that anyway?  Does it take effort?

Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass
the world is too full to talk about.

[geezerdonk]

From the Washington Post:

Correction: Earlier versions of this story incorrectly said that Native American activist Nathan Phillips fought in the Vietnam War. Phillips served in the U.S. Marines from 1972 to 1976 but was never deployed to Vietnam.

[Tom Servo]

State Department cancels border security conference due to shutdown over border security

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/22/politics/state-dept-border-security-conference-postponed/index.html

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass
the world is too full to talk about.

That's a really lovely sentence and a nice sentiment. The problem with your policy of enforced-equivalence and nonengagement is that while you're lying in the field the billionaires are helping themselves to the rest of the money, the world is melting and the poor are caught in the outflow, the workers can't unionize for a better shot, they're drilling for mass shootings between Algebra-I and Not-the-Arts Class that Meant So Much to You because They Don't Offer that Class Anymore in Part Because Assholes who Benefited from Extraordinarily Well-Subsidized Educations Decided They Wanted Tax Cuts, rampant cynicism about public service and civic duty is causing millions to self-disenfranchise, and on every single one of these issues Republicans actively court Drift and Inaction while Democrats are left in the increasingly tenuous position of being the only adults in the room trying to make things work. Honestly, the energy you must spend forcing all the actors into the same cast...

It strikes me that your entire politics is amazingly decadent. Your grandparents knew the difference between Hoover and Roosevelt. I hope someday I'm as safe from the world as you apparently are. And I hope if I get there I'll remember that there's one group out there actively trying to keep people from voting, and I won't pretend that they're politically, ethically and actionably the equal of the group that's trying to empower those same folks. 

[Noe]

Just wanted to note, you are in effect calling me a liar.

No I'm not. I'm saying I believe you.

[Noe]

Oh you don't know how proud I am to be among the meek and lucky.

Glad to be of service. My work is done here, I have blessed yet another one! Onward to other victories! Goodbye social media (again)!

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

That's a really lovely sentence and a nice sentiment. The problem with your policy of enforced-equivalence and nonengagement is that while you're lying in the field the billionaires are helping themselves to the rest of the money, the world is melting and the poor are caught in the outflow, the workers can't unionize for a better shot, they're drilling for mass shootings between Algebra-I and Not-the-Arts Class that Meant So Much to You because They Don't Offer that Class Anymore in Part Because Assholes who Benefited from Extraordinarily Well-Subsidized Educations Decided They Wanted Tax Cuts, rampant cynicism about public service and civic duty is causing millions to self-disenfranchise, and on every single one of these issues Republicans actively court Drift and Inaction while Democrats are left in the increasingly tenuous position of being the only adults in the room trying to make things work. Honestly, the energy you must spend forcing all the actors into the same cast...

It strikes me that your entire politics is amazingly decadent. Your grandparents knew the difference between Hoover and Roosevelt. I hope someday I'm as safe from the world as you apparently are. And I hope if I get there I'll remember that there's one group out there actively trying to keep people from voting, and I won't pretend that they're politically, ethically and actionably the equal of the group that's trying to empower those same folks.

I understand that you think I'm some kind of a goon, though that's never been my intention. I think you are naïve but I'm sure that was not your intention. We really don't know each other at all, though someday if we meet I'm sure we'll get along fine.

[Tom Servo]

No I'm not. I'm saying I believe you.

Really?  Then why the "cast the first and 2nd (and whatnot) stone?"

Most people use that sarcastically to basically say you're full of shit.  If I misinterpreted, however, I do apologize.

[Noe]

Really?  Then why the "cast the first and 2nd (and whatnot) stone?"

Most people use that sarcastically to basically say you're full of shit.  If I misinterpreted, however, I do apologize.

Because if you don't have flaws from your past, you can indeed say things about 16 year olds because you said you never did anything like them. You have that right in America. Of course, me personally, I would never run for office, too many skeletons in my teenage years, just so you know. "No sir, I did try marijuana once, but I never inhaled!"

[Tom Servo]

Because if you don't have flaws, you can indeed say things about 16 year olds because you said you never did anything like them. You have that right in America. Of course, me personally, I would never run for office, too many skeletons in my teenage years, just so you know.

I never said I don't have flaws.  Did I say that?  I said I wasn't a fucking asshole when I was 16.  So once again, I doubt your sincerity, and we're back to you calling me a liar.  You can now flower it up all you want, but let's get real.  You just don't want to outright call me a liar because it will reveal your hypocrisy.

As far as your skeletons, whatever they may be, exactly.. as I said, you're projecting your own bullshit on everyone else. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

You know I think it's funny that I'm looked at as some kind of Republican apologist. I'm a registered Democrat who voted for Bernie in the primaries. I would like to vote for John Hickenlooper in 2020. Maybe Kamala Harris. Otherwise I might vote Green Party again.

[Noe]

I never said I don't have flaws.  Did I say that?  I said I wasn't a fucking asshole when I was 16.  So once again, I doubt your sincerity, and we're back to you calling me a liar.  You can now flower it up all you want, but let's get real.  You just don't want to outright call me a liar because it will reveal your hypocrisy.

As far as your skeletons, whatever they may be, exactly.. as I said, you're projecting your own bullshit on everyone else.

Okay, I'll be more exact then... since you weren't a fucking asshole when you were 16 years of age, go ahead and do what you want with these kids. It's fair game. That is all I was saying. Me? Can't do it, I know what I was at 16 and stupidity was an all-time high.

Why are you getting so upset? It's not worth it nor am I.  Cool?

[Noe]

You know I think it's funny that I'm looked at as some kind of Republican apologist. I'm a registered Democrat who voted for Bernie in the primaries. I would like to vote for John Hickenlooper in 2020. Maybe Kamala Harris. Otherwise I might vote Green Party again.

Hickenlooper will get the vote from any older pot smoker every time! Not that I'm calling you a older pot smoker, just making a general observation. I have a way of not typing clearly.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Hickenlooper will get the vote from any older pot smoker every time! Not that I'm calling you a older pot smoker, just making a general observation. I have a way of not typing clearly.

Clearly you are projecting.

[Noe]

Clearly you are projecting.

I apologize to all older former pot smokers (and current ones too) for including you in my own bullshit. Move along, nothing to see here, keep moving.

[Nate Colbert]

You know I think it's funny that I'm looked at as some kind of Republican apologist. I'm a registered Democrat who voted for Bernie in the primaries.

If you tell us Jill Stein was next on your ballot your bothsidesism will be complete.

ETA:
And re-reading your post I see the word "again" so I'll take the Stein vote as a given.

[Tom Servo]

I apologize to all older former pot smokers (and current ones too) for including you in my own bullshit. Move along, nothing to see here, keep moving.

What bullshit?  You didn't go on for god knows how many pages trying to convince everyone and their mother that potheads vote for Hickenlooper. 

[Noe]

What bullshit?  You didn't go on for god knows how many pages trying to convince everyone and their mother that potheads vote for Hickenlooper.

I can if you want me to. Shall I? I shutter to think who'd I vote for had I inhaled. Or maybe not. Maybe it would have made me stop projecting my bullshit on others. Maybe it would have  allowed others to project their bullshit on me instead... and like it!

[Tom Servo]

I can if you want me to. Shall I? I shutter to think who'd I vote for had I inhaled. Or maybe not. Maybe it would make me stop projecting my bullshit. Maybe it will allow others to project their bullshit on me instead!

Heh.  I'm fine with you not doing that. 

[Tom Servo]

Heh.  I'm fine with you not doing that. 

eeek! I used an emoji.

[Noe]

Heh.  I'm fine with you not doing that. 

Actually me too. We totally agree!

[Tom Servo]

Actually me too. We totally agree!

Yay!  How much longer til spring training???

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

If you tell us Jill Stein was next on your ballot your bothsidesism will be complete.

Yes, I voted for Jill Stein. I couldn't make myself vote for Clinton. And I sure wasn't going to vote for that goofball Johnson. So I stand humbly in the presence of your exalted judgement, a bothsideismist. Also as a bald man who is jealous of guys with good hair.

[Noe]

eeek! I used an emoji.

Me two. Me? Because I'm not good at this whole genre of posting opinions. Not good at all. I'm glad I withheld my clapping hands and thumbs up emojis and went with the "DING, DING, DING" instead. Bad, verrah bad.

Hey anytime you're in town (Austin) and want to go get a beer with me, I'm game. Nothing is serious enough in here to make people out to be what they type. Sometimes you'll find people are polar opposites of what they boldly (and in my case, longly... is there such a word) type in here.

[Noe]

Yay!  How much longer til spring training???

Not soon enough brother... not soon enough!

[Nate Colbert]

I would like to vote for John Hickenlooper in 2020. Maybe Kamala Harris. Otherwise I might vote Green Party again.

I definitely could see myself voting for Hickenlooper if he runs. Harris, not so sure. My eight years living in Cali turned me from a Democrat to an independent and I still have a residual distrust for politicians from that state.

I'd vote Libertarian before I ever voted Green Party. And I'll never vote Libertarian.

[Tom Servo]

Me two. Me? Because I'm not good at this whole genre of posting opinions. Not good at all. I'm glad I withheld my clapping hands and thumbs up and went with the "DING, DING, DING" instead. Bad, verrah bad.

Hey anytime you're in town (Austin) and went to go get a beer with me, I'm game. Nothing is serious enough in here to make people out to be what they type. Sometimes you'll find people are polar opposites of what they boldly (and in my case, longly... is there such a word) in here.

I'd definitely take you up on that offer, but I'm in Georgia, and don't see myself getting out that way anytime in the foreseeable future.  And yes, one of my *flaws* is probably getting worked up a bit more than I should.

And I actually like emoji's, but I know they are upon here. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'd vote Libertarian before I ever voted Green Party. And I'll never vote Libertarian.

I used to think the same way, but as a bald man, I feel disenfranchised by the two major political parties. I like the idea of more than two choices.

[Nate Colbert]

So I stand humbly in the presence of your exalted judgement, a bothsideismist.

Pick a lane, dude, pick a lane. With Trumpelstiltskin and his braying acolytes, it ain't that hard.

[Noe]

I definitely could see myself voting for Hickenlooper if he runs. Harris, not so sure. My eight years living in Cali turned me from a Democrat to an independent and I still have a residual distrust for politicians from that state.

I'd vote Libertarian before I ever voted Green Party. And I'll never vote Libertarian.

I voted Independent for the first time in my life in the last Presidential election. I was clearly on the "Anyone but Trump" bandwagon. I was preparing myself to vote for Hillary until a last minute Independent stood up that caught my attention. Some say I wasted my vote, it would have helped the "anyone but trump" movement, but I actually found myself liking my candidate more than just giving away my vote because I hated Trump.

[Noe]

I'd definitely take you up on that offer, but I'm in Georgia, and don't see myself getting out that way anytime in the foreseeable future.  And yes, one of my *flaws* is probably getting worked up a bit more than I should.

And I actually like emoji's, but I know they are upon here.

Dude, you're alright. I like your contributions. Anytime Tom, the offer stands.

[Tom Servo]

Dude, you're alright. I like your contributions. Anytime Tom, the offer stands.

Thanks, Noe.  Much appreciated.

[Noe]

Thanks, Noe.  Much appreciated.

 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Pick a lane, dude, pick a lane. With Trumpelstiltskin and his braying acolytes, it ain't that hard.

I'll wait until I know where the road goes. Then I'll pick a lane. And when I need to change lanes because of all the shit on the road up ahead, I'll change lanes. Also the most scenic lane is usually not the path of least resistance.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I voted Independent for the first time in my life in the last Presidential election. I was clearly on the "Anyone but Trump" bandwagon. I was preparing myself to vote for Hillary until a last minute Independent stood up that caught my attention. Some say I wasted my vote, it would have helped the "anyone but trump" movement, but I actually found myself liking my candidate more than just giving away my vote because I hated Trump.

I reached the point where not voting at all was a better choice than voting for who I hated the least among Clinton and Trump. I didn't have thanks to a third party.

[jbm]

Just FYI, it was reported that the Russians, being intelligent in their deviousness, had to decide where to invest in their disinformation campaigns. They concluded that their best odds were with the unhinged, basically because they were passionate and lacked critical thought.  Well, the NRA was a natural place to mine, hate groups were another and of course, Jill Stein. Seriously, I’m not just being an asshole here, that was their conclusion.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Just FYI, it was reported that the Russians, being intelligent in their deviousness, had to decide where to invest in their disinformation campaigns. They concluded that their best odds were with the unhinged, basically because they were passionate and lacked critical thought.  Well, the NRA was a natural place to mine, hate groups were another and of course, Jill Stein. Seriously, I’m not just being an asshole here, that was their conclusion.

I had heard that too.  I have no hinges to be undone, so I don't think your being an asshole, as I explained it was Clinton and Trump not Russians that influenced my decision.

[Limey]

Don't get me too wrong, Trump is the kid that doesn't like who the teacher assigned for him to dance with so he dances around like a shit throwing chimp.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation.

The President has shut down the government because democratically elected co-equal representatives aren’t abdicating their jobs and letting him do whatever he wants.  There isn’t a “both sides” argument here.  If Democrats roll over, Trump doesn’t build his wall - the money in dispute isn’t enough and he still hasn’t spent 2017 money.  If they don’t roll over, Trimp doesn’t build his wall.  Either way, there’s no wall.  The only variable is Trump. 

[geezerdonk]

He went to war for this country.  That earns him deference from those of us who haven't.

If we give him deference for going to war for his country, what do we give him for lying about it and stealing the valor of those who did?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

If we give him deference for going to war for his country, what do we give him for lying about it and stealing the valor of those who did?

He was a Viet Nam era vet, I honor him for that. If he ever misrepresented himself as being a combat veteren, he has no credibility. None. Just another poliical pawn. 

[TeeJoe]

He was a Viet Nam era vet, I honor him for that. If he ever misrepresented himself as being a combat veteren, he has no credibility. None. Just another poliical pawn.

I haven't seen where Phillips himself claimed to be a combat veteran. Several media accounts reported that he was a Vietnam veteran but gives no quotes that Philips stated this or that he was claiming combat veteran status.

[Limey]

Do you see what happened here?  We - and the media - are now debating the reputation of the man who was - at best - mocked by a bunch of high school students, instead of the behavior of said high school kids which is what projected this story into the public sphere.

[Limey]

If we give him deference for going to war for his country, what do we give him for lying about it and stealing the valor of those who did?

I conflated "veteran" with "combat veteran".  That's on me, not him.

Still, he served, and you typically don't get to choose of you get sent into a combat zone or not.  For that you need a friendly doctor who owes your dad a favor.

[Limey]

I had heard that too.  I have no hinges to be undone, so I don't think your being an asshole, as I explained it was Clinton and Trump not Russians that influenced my decision.

Russian propaganda was shared on social media billions of times and became newsworthy because of its profile.  You may have already decided far in advance - I know I had - but the entire thing swung on 77,000 voters across three states.  States that were targeted by the Russians who seemed to have a sophisticated understanding of the demographics there.  It's almost as if someone was feeding them data...

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Do you see what happened here?  We - and the media - are now debating the reputation of the man who was - at best - mocked by a bunch of high school students, instead of the behavior of said high school kids which is what projected this story into the public sphere.

No, I don't see that. That is your spin. I see the instigators, the Black Hebrew Israelites, getting a free pass and people vilifying/defending some kids' immature behavior and questioning the degree of involvement of  a veteran's military service during the Viet Nam war..

[Bench]

Do you see what happened here?  We - and the media - are now debating the reputation of the man who was - at best - mocked by a bunch of high school students, instead of the behavior of said high school kids which is what projected this story into the public sphere.

It really is an amazing spin.  Kids behave in a manner that can at best be described as obnoxious and disrespectful with a sliding scale towards racist, and they're the heroes and an old man who was beating a drum and singing is the villain.

Meanwhile, this petty debate has overshadowed the fact that we're over a month into an actual societal crisis.

[Limey]

No, I don't see that. That is your spin. I see the instigators, the Black Hebrew Israelites, getting a free pass and people vilifying/defending some kids' immature behavior and questioning the degree of involvement of  a veteran's military service during the Viet Nam war..

Spin is questioning the veteran's war record (see Kerry, John and McCain, John and Khan, Humayun).  The interaction between the Covington students and the Black Hebrew Israelites is an interesting aside, as it was this interaction that Phillips says he was trying to diffuse.  The fact that the students pivoted from their exchange with the one group to mocking Phillips is all on them.

[Limey]

It really is an amazing spin.  Kids behave in a manner that can at best be described as obnoxious and disrespectful with a sliding scale towards racist, and they're the heroes and an old man who was beating a drum and singing is the villain.

Meanwhile, this petty debate has overshadowed the fact that we're over a month two years into an actual societal crisis.

FIFY

[Bench]

No, I don't see that. That is your spin. I see the instigators, the Black Hebrew Israelites, getting a free pass and people vilifying/defending some kids' immature behavior and questioning the degree of involvement of  a veteran's military service during the Viet Nam war..

The Black Hebrew Israelites are known lunatics, disgraceful people, and not worth the breath it takes to type.

[Bench]

FIFY

As soon as I hit post I realized that was a massive understatement. But I'd say the societal crisis reaches back further than two years.

[Limey]

Trump's disapproval rating hit a new low (high?) today, with 57% saying they disapprove.

According to the latest Morning Consult/Politico poll, conducted Jan. 18-22, 57 percent of registered voters disapprove of Trump’s job performance — more than any other survey in Trump’s two years in office — while 40 percent approve. The 17-percentage-point deficit matches two previous lows of the Trump presidency: in the first weekend of the shutdown, which began on Dec. 22, and in the wake of his comments regarding the fatal riots in Charlottesville, Va., in August 2017.

He's back to praising-Nazis-after-they-just-killed-someone bad.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I find it fascinating people can see the same thing and have very different interpretations of it.

[jbm]

It's a stupid story, told by stupid people, signifying that we are doomed. 

Stupid school, raising kids to be proud of their stupidity and riling up stupid Americans to proudly defend the cycle of stupidity.  They all probably call it winning.

Oh, and for the defenders of stupidity, the black whatever nutjobs are obviously stupid pieces of crap, but they are powerless and irrelevant, that's why no one spends time railing on them.

[Limey]

As soon as I hit post I realized that was a massive understatement. But I'd say the societal crisis reaches back further than two years.

Republicans unleashed the crazy on Obama and the ACA in 2010.  It had always been there, but they weaponized it and then lost control of the weapon.  They lost control when McCain picked Palin as his running mate; also 2010.

[Limey]

I find it fascinating people can see the same thing and have very different interpretations of it.

You don't see the students' behavior as mocking?

[Bench]

Republicans unleashed the crazy on Obama and the ACA in 2010.  It had always been there, but they weaponized it and then lost control of the weapon.  They lost control when McCain picked Palin as his running mate; also 2010.

The key preceding events to me are the debt ceiling crises of 2011 and 2013, the 2013 shutdown which were dipping toes into anti-democratic waters, and then Merrick Garland which profoundly undermined the entire system. One political party put themselves over the country and the constitution.

[Limey]

Trump's disapproval rating hit a new low (high?) today, with 57% saying they disapprove.

He's back to praising-Nazis-after-they-just-killed-someone bad.

A CBS poll has Trump at 36% approve / 59% disapprove.  Oof!  Also, 7 out of 10 do not believe it is worth shutting down the government over the wall.  Zowie!

This is why this won't end.  Public support is on the side of the Democrats and Trump doesn't care.  McConnell is waiting (in hiding) for the Democrats to cave, but they have nothing to lose by holding out and everything to gain.  With the debt ceiling coming up in March (maybe later now), if they allow Trump to hold his breath and stomp his feet to get his wall money, then he will do it again and again over anything and everything.  It would end Congress as a co-equal branch of government, and leave us with King Trump.

[Limey]

And so, it begins.  The House Oversight Committee - replete with new members Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ayanna Pressley and Rashida Tlaib - is investigating White House staff and Trump transition team security clearances.  The link above is to the (long) letter laying out the subject of the investigation and the documents they are requesting.

Flynn and Kushner are of particular interest.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

You don't see the students' behavior as mocking?

Are you mocking me again? Are you? Mocking is obviously subjective. Where is the line? When people throw insults at Mr Happy, are they mocking him? Have you never mocked anyone? Am I mocking you now?

I don't think there was any malicious intent to their behavior. I don't think they had decided to try to humiliate Mr. Phillips. It sure looked as it some were lifted by the spirit of the drumming and bouncing with the beat.  I don't think their behavior was harsh enough to cause the reaction that it has. I don't know why it is such a big deal to condemn the whole group if you think a few individuals behaved improperly. I think some people love to make mountains out of mole hills and others try to smooth them down. Didn't you at one time go to an all boys school? In your experience  was every classmate guilty of each individual's act?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

And so, it begins.  The House Oversight Committee - replete with new members Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ayanna Pressley and Rashida Tlaib - is investigating White House staff and Trump transition team security clearances.  The link above is to the (long) letter laying out the subject of the investigation and the documents they are requesting.

Flynn and Kushner are of particular interest.

I really like AOC. I really hope she can raise taxes on the wealthy. I think everyone should have to pay 70% on everything they earn after the first $68,000.00 until we have a budget surplus.

[BudGirl]

I really like AOC. I really hope she can raise taxes on the wealthy. I think everyone should have to pay 70% on everything they earn after the first $68,000.00 until we have a budget surplus.

Is that individually or total household?  That's pretty low of a total income to me.

[Bench]

Is that individually or total household?  That's pretty low of a total income to me.

He's mocking.

[Bench]

Are you mocking me again? Are you? Mocking is obviously subjective. Where is the line? When people throw insults at Mr Happy, are they mocking him? Have you never mocked anyone? Am I mocking you now?

I don't think there was any malicious intent to their behavior. I don't think they had decided to try to humiliate Mr. Phillips. It sure looked as it some were lifted by the spirit of the drumming and bouncing with the beat.  I don't think their behavior was harsh enough to cause the reaction that it has. I don't know why it is such a big deal to condemn the whole group if you think a few individuals behaved improperly. I think some people love to make mountains out of mole hills and others try to smooth them down. Didn't you at one time go to an all boys school? In your experience  was every classmate guilty of each individual's act?

There were plenty of kids in the video who seemed appropriately mortified by the whole situation. I'm not sure why you're painting with such a broad brush.

[jbm]

Yeah, he's trolling.  Soon however, he might say that AOC is like Hitler

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/ben-stein-ocasio-cortez-promising-102755528.html

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Is that individually or total household?  That's pretty low of a total income to me.

It's more than people in poverty make, why should they have to be humiliated all they time? Some of them work really really really hard, they can't spend their working hours on a computer vapidly gabbing on a forum because they use their hands and brains to work with and they can't afford to take their families to movies or ballgames or rock concerts. It's not fair that they should be left out of the "Dream" because of all the greedy people wanting to hoard their money.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Yeah, he's trolling.  Soon however, he might say that AOC is like Hitler

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/ben-stein-ocasio-cortez-promising-102755528.html

Wrong.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

There were plenty of kids in the video who seemed appropriately mortified by the whole situation. I'm not sure why you're painting with such a broad brush.

My friend, my brush is a fine point. You have a roller.

[BudGirl]

It's more than people in poverty make, why should they have to be humiliated all they time? Some of them work really really really hard, they can't spend their working hours on a computer vapidly gabbing on a forum because they use their hands and brains to work with and they can't afford to take their families to movies or ballgames or rock concerts. It's not fair that they should be left out of the "Dream" because of all the greedy people wanting to hoard their money.

I asked, sincerely, because i don't disagree with AOC and that income level isn't far from mine.  So, you can say what you want but I'd like to see that upper 1% pay the same portion in taxes that I do.  I'd feel better about a lot of things then.  But the 99% can't lobby like that 1% so we're at a disadvantage.

[Limey]

Are you mocking me again? Are you? Mocking is obviously subjective. Where is the line? When people throw insults at Mr Happy, are they mocking him? Have you never mocked anyone? Am I mocking you now?

Well, I wasn't before; but now...

I don't think there was any malicious intent to their behavior. I don't think they had decided to try to humiliate Mr. Phillips. It sure looked as it some were lifted by the spirit of the drumming and bouncing with the beat.  I don't think their behavior was harsh enough to cause the reaction that it has. I don't know why it is such a big deal to condemn the whole group if you think a few individuals behaved improperly. I think some people love to make mountains out of mole hills and others try to smooth them down. Didn't you at one time go to an all boys school? In your experience  was every classmate guilty of each individual's act?

I was fortunate enough never to attend an all-boys school.  I agree that not everyone in the student group was mocking Phillips, but a sizable number clearly were.  I was always taught that we all represented the school and the bad behavior of an individual reflected on all of us.  I'm not saying that no one ever misbehaved, but it was never lauded by the balance of the students because it made us all look bad.  Retribution form the school was routinely swift and severe.

[Limey]

I really like AOC. I really hope she can raise taxes on the wealthy. I think everyone should have to pay 70% on everything they earn after the first $68,000.00 until we have a budget surplus.

Eisenhower taxed income above $400,000 at 72%.

[Limey]

It's more than people in poverty make, why should they have to be humiliated all they time? Some of them work really really really hard, they can't spend their working hours on a computer vapidly gabbing on a forum because they use their hands and brains to work with and they can't afford to take their families to movies or ballgames or rock concerts. It's not fair that they should be left out of the "Dream" because of all the greedy people wanting to hoard their money.

You have fallen into the Republican trope of not understanding or misrepresenting marginal tax rates.

[Limey]

I asked, sincerely, because i don't disagree with AOC and that income level isn't far from mine.  So, you can say what you want but I'd like to see that upper 1% pay the same portion in taxes that I do.  I'd feel better about a lot of things then.  But the 99% can't lobby like that 1% so we're at a disadvantage.

At the Davos summit, they announce each year how many of the wealthiest people it takes to equal the wealth of the bottom 3.5 billion people in the world.  Last year it was 80; this year it is 26.  This is not an accident.

[moriartp]

Eisenhower taxed income above $400,000 at 72%.

I'd do this today, but I guess I'd have to settle for it being inflation-adjusted.

[Bench]

I'd do this today, but I guess I'd have to settle for it being inflation-adjusted.

That's roughly over $3.5 million.

[geezerdonk]

Phillips also described coming back to the U.S. as a veteran of the Vietnam era.
 “People called me a baby killer and a hippie girl spit on me.”
Quote from December 5, 2008 article by Vincent Shilling in Indian Country Today. This was an interview conducted at Arlington National Cemetery at an event honoring American Indian veterans. 

Quote from Nathan's CNN interview over the weekend:
When I was there and I was standing there and I seen that group of people in front of me and I seen the angry faces and all of that, I realized I had put myself in a really dangerous situation. Here's a group of people who were angry at somebody else and I put myself in front of that, and all of a sudden, I'm the one whose all that anger and all that wanting to have the freedom to just rip me apart, that was scary. And I'm a Vietnam veteran and I know that mentality of "There's enough of us. We can do this."

Quote from Nathan's April 18, 2018 interview in Vogue:
You know, I’m from Vietnam times. I’m what they call a recon ranger. That was my role. So I thank you for taking that point position for me.

Quote from Nathan in January 20, 2019 inter view with Vincent Shilling in Indian Country Today:
You know, when I was in Vietnam times and when I was in the Marine Corps times, that's what I was. I was expendable. Expendable to corporate greed. You know, in all wars, especially the ones that are going down for the oil, you know, we're fighting against — the pipelines.

[Limey]

I'd do this today, but I guess I'd have to settle for it being inflation-adjusted.

That's roughly over $3.5 million.

$400k is the inflation-adjusted figure.  98% of households make less than that.

[moriartp]

$400k is the inflation-adjusted figure.  98% of households make less than that.

Nice. Anyone in the 2%, feel free to vote against. But I feel like the numbers are probably on our side.

[Noe]

Phillips also described coming back to the U.S. as a veteran of the Vietnam era.
 “People called me a baby killer and a hippie girl spit on me.”
Quote from December 5, 2008 article by Vincent Shilling in Indian Country Today. This was an interview conducted at Arlington National Cemetery at an event honoring American Indian veterans. 

Quote from Nathan's CNN interview over the weekend:
When I was there and I was standing there and I seen that group of people in front of me and I seen the angry faces and all of that, I realized I had put myself in a really dangerous situation. Here's a group of people who were angry at somebody else and I put myself in front of that, and all of a sudden, I'm the one whose all that anger and all that wanting to have the freedom to just rip me apart, that was scary. And I'm a Vietnam veteran and I know that mentality of "There's enough of us. We can do this."

Quote from Nathan's April 18, 2018 interview in Vogue:
You know, I’m from Vietnam times. I’m what they call a recon ranger. That was my role. So I thank you for taking that point position for me.

Quote from Nathan in January 20, 2019 inter view with Vincent Shilling in Indian Country Today:
You know, when I was in Vietnam times and when I was in the Marine Corps times, that's what I was. I was expendable. Expendable to corporate greed. You know, in all wars, especially the ones that are going down for the oil, you know, we're fighting against — the pipelines.

FWIW - I'm glad that this story is now moving towards a coming together of people and minds to have rational and necessary conversations between the two groups. Whatever anyone says about Phillips now is a non-issue. He thrust himself into the spotlight as did Sandmann and the Covington kids. No talks about lawsuits (that I know of) but I have heard that there is a distinct possibility that Phillips will be invited or has asked to be invited to give a talk at a general assembly at the school (that closed yesterday because of threats). I say that is the proper way to handle this and leave all of us out of it. Good can come of this and I too believe that mocking and insensitive behavior by some of the punky stupid 16 year olds did happen... but nothing violent nor malcious (predators? hardly) did in any way shape or form in terms of the initial reports. Now is the time to do some good from both sides and I say let them handle it... the adults in the room that matter. If all sides stay entrenched, that will continue a polarization that is needless and will continue to feed the social media beast as we know it.

Also, I think the IPM is doing some good in this situation trying to keep the focus on what they stood for and continue to stand for when they decided to exercise their first ammendment right that day (as were the Covington kids while attending the March for Life rally). If at an assembly at the school, this is the theme and focus, believe some kids will listen and learn. But if it is blame and shame (doxx and lock and load too), then as good ol' Bum Phillips (ironic eh, Phillips!) once said "I was taught that if you point a finger at someone, remember you got four pointing right back at' ya". Go speak at Covington Mr. Phillips. Covington, let the man share. Then everyone involved decide how deep this can penetrate in your very young lives. Many times, a young person will point to a pivotal time in their lives when a situation changed them and that can happen too if we let them work it out the right way.

Social media stay out.

[Limey]

Nice. Anyone in the 2%, feel free to vote against. But I feel like the numbers are probably on our side.

It’s like the estate tax: the right-wing noise machine will scare conservatives not voting against it, when they could aggregate generations of wealth and never be close to paying it. 

[Bench]

Cohen has postponed his upcoming congressional testimony citing threats by Trump against his family, according to Haberman.

[Limey]

Cohen has postponed his upcoming congressional testimony citing threats by Trump against his family, according to Haberman.

He was due to testify voluntarily; that may be about to change.  His attitude is likely to be different if under subpoena, so job done.  Also, he’s due to report to prison on March 6, so the clock is running. 

[Limey]

Trump has sent Pelosi a letter saying that he will give the SOTY address as scheduled, in the House chamber. 

This is what they took a week to come up with?   

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Well, I wasn't before; but now...

I am charmed by your mocking.

[jbm]

Cohen has postponed his upcoming congressional testimony citing threats by Trump against his family, according to Haberman.

yeah, this is a bullshit made-up excuse, but it was becoming evident over the last weeks if you listed to Lanny Davis closely.  Personally, I've never trusted Cohen to be a viable snitch and I just don't trust Davis, so I've been skeptical of hanging much on Cohen.  I distrust him so much, that I almost wonder if compelling him through a subpoena might be stepping into a trap.  But, I'm often wrong on these things.

[moriartp]

yeah, this is a bullshit made-up excuse, but it was becoming evident over the last weeks if you listed to Lanny Davis closely.  Personally, I've never trusted Cohen to be a viable snitch and I just don't trust Davis, so I've been skeptical of hanging much on Cohen.  I distrust him so much, that I almost wonder if compelling him through a subpoena might be stepping into a trap.  But, I'm often wrong on these things.

Good instinct, imo.

[Limey]

Trump has sent Pelosi a letter saying that he will give the SOTY address as scheduled, in the House chamber. 

This is what they took a week to come up with?

Pelosi wrote back and, politely, told him to go fuck himself. 

They have to pass a bill to allow the President to enter the chamber, and she will not bring that to the floor while the government is shut down. 

He will give a speech somewhere, and it’s going to be a doozy. 

[MusicMan]

Pelosi wrote back and, politely, told him to go fuck himself. 

They have to pass a bill to allow the President to enter the chamber, and she will not bring that to the floor while the government is shut down. 

He will give a speech somewhere, and it’s going to be a doozy. 

Trump is having trouble understanding consent? Go figure.

[Nate Colbert]

How Two Jewish Guys from America Created the George Soros Anti-Semitic Conspiracy Theory.

[jbm]

Fascinating article there.  I always first jump to ridicule and condemn people like that, but it's all the willing dupes who really deserve the blame.  My biggest criticism against someone like that is not all the harm they caused, or the evil they've spread, it's just their bad taste: they had a unique god-given talent, and were so weak that they chose that path.  One is still so weak that he can't recognize he chose the wrong path.

When I read that they were associated with Netanyahu, my reaction was "of course." 

[Bench]

Pelosi wrote back and, politely, told him to go fuck himself. 

They have to pass a bill to allow the President to enter the chamber, and she will not bring that to the floor while the government is shut down. 

He will give a speech somewhere, and it’s going to be a doozy.

And Trump just said they will look for an alternative venue. Of the dumb sideshows hovering around this entire shit show, this was one of the more amusing.

[Mike S.]

Perhaps this is what the fake in fake news is all about:

https://gizmodo.com/president-trump-posts-altered-photos-to-facebook-and-in-1831909849

[geezerdonk]

I conflated "veteran" with "combat veteran".  That's on me, not him.

Still, he served, and you typically don't get to choose of you get sent into a combat zone or not.  For that you need a friendly doctor who owes your dad a favor.

He didn't say he was a veteran, he said he was a Viet Nam veteran. He also said that he was a recon ranger. The Army has Rangers, the Marine Corps has Force Recon. He was claiming to be a member the Marine Corps' elite combat unit.  The last Marine combat unit left Viet Nam in 71.

Here is the latest from the Washington Post:
In reality, Phillips served from June 1972 to May 1976 in the Marine Corps Reserve, a service spokeswoman, Yvonne Carlock, said Wednesday. He did not deploy, and he left the service as a private after disciplinary issues. From October 1972 to February 1973, he was classified as an antitank missileman, a kind of infantryman, Carlock said. He then became a refrigerator technician for the majority of his service.

The FOIA release shows that Nathan was on active duty for training from May - November 72. Then there is a gap in service and he is on active duty form August 74 through May 76. AWOL 3 times. Refrigerator mechanic.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

then as good ol' Bum Phillips (ironic eh, Phillips!) once said "I was taught that if you point a finger at someone, remember you got four pointing right back at' ya".

How many fingers?

[geezerdonk]

Back to the original question. What is the importance/relevance of his veteran status. The answer is: None.
The pro-Nathanites will prop him, make excuses and adore him even if he was court martialed for treason. Te anti-Nathanites will revile him even if he is Audie Murphy. 

[jbm]

Do you think the students knew he was a fraud?  Is it central to the story?

If he has truly posed as something he is not, I get the criticism, just not sure how it's supposed to change what I saw and heard in the video.

[Limey]

And Trump just said they will look for an alternative venue. Of the dumb sideshows hovering around this entire shit show, this was one of the more amusing.

...and he'll still have to give Congress a SOTU at some point later, because the constitution says he has to.  If he gives a speech next week, I bet Pelosi has him do it in writing.

The important point is that he doesn't get to stand in Congress, with Pelosi seated behind him and his sycophant horde cheering him on, while he lies and lies and lies about everything - particularly the shutdown.

[jbm]

...and he'll still have to give Congress a SOTU at some point later, because the constitution says he has to.  If he gives a speech next week, I bet Pelosi has him do it in writing.

The important point is that he doesn't get to stand in Congress, with Pelosi seated behind him and his sycophant horde cheering him on, while he lies and lies and lies about everything - particularly the shutdown.

Honestly, I don't care if Nancy fucks with him.  I mean, people shouldn't back down to a loser bully, but I'm not sure she's not helping him out here.  I think his act is wearing thinner and thinner and having him drone on about his wall in front of Congress, using arguments few buy, would just make him look smaller than he presently does.

Of course, the next day, the White House footage will show everyone in the crowd cheering wildly, breathlessly jealous of his intellect and long fingers.

[chuck]

And Trump just said they will look for an alternative venue.

There's a Cracker Barrel in Manassas that ought to work a treat.

[chuck]

Do you think the students knew he was a fraud?  Is it central to the story?

This is the bullshit idiots like this pull every time someone does something fucked up and then acts outraged that anyone thusly entitled could possibly be taken to task for it. I'm no great seer, but I said this was coming five pages ago.

It happens every time some prick from a rich family rapes someone or runs somebody over. It happens every time they nominate a serial sexual harasser to the highest courts. It even happens when a bunch of little turds are out misogyning for sport and have the incredible good luck to happen upon a frail looking dude beating a drum.

One idiot is trying to deny millions of people their honest reaction by lying that what we're basing our reaction on didn't happen. (Then, bizarrely, he starts talking about porn.) Another idiot wants to see this guy's birth certificate.

They obviously want to derail the conversation from the essential truth of the matter and distract people with their convoluted bullshit.

[geezerdonk]

Do you think the students knew he was a fraud?  Is it central to the story?

If he has truly posed as something he is not, I get the criticism, just not sure how it's supposed to change what I saw and heard in the video.

That is exactly the point. It has nothing to do with the story. That is why I asked the question to begin with.

[chuck]

And here I was thinking Sphinx was the one leading this conversation irretrievably into the absurd.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

And here I was thinking Sphinx was the one leading this conversation irretrievably into the absurd.

I was trying to lead it into a discussion of the Rashomon Effect. But everyone has their own take... Was there a big celebration in Panama for Rivera?

[chuck]

I was trying to lead it into a discussion of the Rashomon Effect. But everyone has their own take... Was there a big celebration in Panama for Rivera?

I tolt yall about how no one else in the super knew who the hell he was. Imagine that. 100% and he can grocery shop totally unmolested if you don't count me.

So, no.

The Pope, on the other hand, turns out that dude is pretty big here. I'm pretty sure he'd get recognized in the Rey even without his white robe and the pope mobile smoking outside.

[chuck]

White smoke, probably need to get the engine checked.

[Nate Colbert]

White smoke, probably need to get the engine checked. there's a new car in your future.

FIFY.

[Limey]

New AP poll has Trump’s approval rating at 34%. 

[Noe]

One idiot is trying to deny millions of people their honest reaction by lying that what we're basing our reaction on didn't happen. (Then, bizarrely, he starts talking about porn.)

I thought we were done asshole. I guess not. Ready, set... prepare for ten more pages of me calling you an asshole. Because you are.

[chuck]

I thought we were done asshole. I guess not. Ready, set... prepare for ten more pages of me calling you an asshole. Because you are.

Jaja, sigue siendo el rey de los inútiles, ahuevao. Nos burlamos mucho de ti, siempre ha sido así, y ta bien merecido. En serio, sigue, loco, me diviertes demasiao.

No vas a deshacerte de mi tan fácil, pendejo - sigue con la payasería, cha. Me haces reír. Diez páginas mas de pura paja? Dale, pue. Tenemos diez mil anteriores. Que chucha cambiaría?

[MusicMan]

There's a Cracker Barrel in Manassas that ought to work a treat.

That’s Bull Run according to his base.


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[moriartp]

That’s Bull Run according to his base.


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Other way around actually.

[Limey]

And Trump just said they will look for an alternative venue.

Last night he tweeted that he’d wait until the government was open before doing the SOTU.  Complete cave. 

Meanwhile, the shutdown shitshow continues...

[Limey]

Last night he tweeted that he’d wait until the government was open before doing the SOTU.  Complete cave. 

Meanwhile, the shutdown shitshow continues...

And Pelosi walks graciously to the net to shake the hand of her defeated opponent.

As you know last night the president accepted the fact that the State of the Union should be at a time when we can talk about the State of the Union.  I’m glad we got that off the table.

Tomorrow she's going to unveil a funding proposal that includes $5billion for border security - drones, customs agents and judges etc. - but not a penny for a wall.  Seems to me that, if there's truly a crisis at the border*, the things can be deployed a lot faster than building a wall for which the design isn't ready and the land isn't acquired.

* There is, just a different one than the president claims there to be.  It's the fact that we do not have the manpower and technology deployed to screen effectively for the drugs flooding through our ports of entry and we cannot process asylum claims fast enough (about 80% of which are rejected) so we end up with a huge backlogs on both sides of the border leading to the chaos we see today.  Also, none of the people manning the border are getting paid right now, so there's that too.

[Noe]

Jaja, sigue siendo el rey de los inútiles, ahuevao. Nos burlamos mucho de ti, siempre ha sido así, y ta bien merecido. En serio, sigue, loco, me diviertes demasiao.

No vas a deshacerte de mi tan fácil, pendejo - sigue con la payasería, cha. Me haces reír. Diez páginas mas de pura paja? Dale, pue. Tenemos diez mil anteriores. Que chucha cambiaría?

Nos? Aye Dios Mio, tengo mucho verguensas que todos tenen esa opinion de mi. jaja.

Cuantas veces tenes que ser el buey hasta que intendes que no me importa tu opinion de mi? Es mejor que me digas que todavia tenes rencor contra mi and vas a sequir con ese rencor proque so yo y no lo que digo. Esta bien, no soy tu favorito... no hay problema con eso. Pero este amenaza es de ninos y no adultos. Tenes esa oportunidad aqui, sigue adelante con tu deseo de burla porque ese es tu personaje. Asi son las cosas, no puedo esperar otra cosas mas que eso. Es tu decision. Para mi, no hay mas que decir o hablar con tigo. No tengo buena opinion de ti, y tu de mi. Hasta ayi quendan las cosas.

[MusicMan]

Other way around actually.

Dammit.


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[Tom Servo]

What is this about Puppies of Chicago, google translate?

[moriartp]

Warren raises the stakes after seeing how AOC's tax proposal polled.

[chuck]

Warren raises the stakes after seeing how AOC's tax proposal polled.

This is fucking stupid. First, calling it a wealth tax is about the dumbest fucking thing you could call it. I understand that that's an actual economic term, but the branding sucks ass. Second, trying to tax assets rather than income is crazy and will invite unimaginable amounts and kinds of cheating.

Also, I don't think the economic case for a wealth tax is anywhere near as strong as the economic case for higher marginal tax rates.

Just impose high marginal rates on very high amounts of earned income and be done with it.

There is a lot to like about Elizabeth Warren but to me this seems like a terrible idea both politically and economically.

[MusicMan]

Agreed. The higher marginal rates on high income are intended to drive down executive pay and theoretically direct those funds to worker salaries. Wealth taxes don’t accomplish those economic goals and as you said, just encourage massive evasion schemes. It would be a move back towards the pre-1986 tax avoidance models.


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[moriartp]

Disagree on branding. "Wealth tax" is way better than "income tax." How many voters consider themselves wealthy? Branding it a wealth tax signals it doesn't apply to most people.

Enforcement is obviously a nightmare, but the real problem is constitutionality. IMO it's nothing more than a way of signaling "I'm an enemy of the rich."

ETA: it also might be a way of bringing Bernie people into her camp. Her odds go down if he gets into the race, so she's got to try to box him out.

[Bench]

What is this about Puppies of Chicago, google translate?

I got something about a central gardener stealing Chuck's mangoes?

[Bench]

Just impose high marginal rates on very high amounts of earned income and be done with it.

Increase the rates at the top margin for long term capital gains as well?

[chuck]

Increase the rates at the top margin for long term capital gains as well?

I don't know. I'm not nearly as eager to monkey with long term capital gains as I am with marginal income tax rates, carried interest and the treatment of dividends, to which I would apply marginal tax rates.

I guess if I saw evidence that a marginal increase in long term gains had no negative impact on investing activity I would find a way to support it, but I guess I'm just skeptical that that evidence exists. If it does, I would love to evaluate it.

What do you think?

[Tom Servo]

FFS!

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/kudlow-unpaid-federal-workers-volunteering-allegiance-to-trump

[Bench]

I don't know. I'm not nearly as eager to monkey with long term capital gains as I am with marginal income tax rates, carried interest and the treatment of dividends, to which I would apply marginal tax rates.

I guess if I saw evidence that a marginal increase in long term gains had no negative impact on investing activity I would find a way to support it, but I guess I'm just skeptical that that evidence exists. If it does, I would love to evaluate it.

What do you think?

I haven't seen any evidence one way or the other either. I can imagine having a significant gap between the existing 20% margin ($450,000) and a much higher margin (in the millions) but I'd have to read about it. For all I know it could be a horrible idea.

[Limey]

This is fucking stupid. First, calling it a wealth tax is about the dumbest fucking thing you could call it. I understand that that's an actual economic term, but the branding sucks ass. Second, trying to tax assets rather than income is crazy and will invite unimaginable amounts and kinds of cheating.

Also, I don't think the economic case for a wealth tax is anywhere near as strong as the economic case for higher marginal tax rates.

Just impose high marginal rates on very high amounts of earned income and be done with it.

There is a lot to like about Elizabeth Warren but to me this seems like a terrible idea both politically and economically.

It doesn’t matter what she calls it, because the media will go with whatever rebranding the right wing puts on it.  As an effort to eliminate dynastic wealth, it’s a start.  It’s also - as you point out - impossible to institute without a complete overhaul of the tax system.

So, the smart way would have been to start with the latter.  Get income properly defined (to include things like carried interest) so that everyone - wealthy or not - pays what they owe.  This also applies to AOC’s proposal too - if you don’t properly capture income as a metric, you can’t properly tax it. 

Perhaps more importantly, the corporate tax system needs an enema.  Businesses who park themselves offshore but still operate in the US are stealing from all of us - the spoils of which go only to shareholders who pay tax on that at a fraction of the rates at which you and I pay tax on our income.  We need to capture that tax revenue too.  I think these things would turn around the deficit in as much time as it takes Thanos to snap his fingers. 

[Limey]

Increase the rates at the top margin for long term capital gains as well?

Capital gains is a form of income.  I see no reason why it is taxed differently. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

The only people who complain about a "wealth" tax are the ones who would have to pay it. Everyone else would welcome the chance to be in their situation.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I got something about a central gardener stealing Chuck's mangoes?

The clown ox will make a mockery of the 10,000 straws.

[chuck]

Capital gains is a form of income.  I see no reason why it is taxed differently.

There is no evidence that higher marginal tax rates act as a disincentive to high earners. There is evidence that higher capital gains rates acts as a disincentive to long term investment.

Perhaps that disincentive is less impactful at eight or nine figure income levels, I don't know, I haven't seen anything broken down like that.

Another reason not to tax gains as income is the impact of inflation.

[MusicMan]

Capital gains is a form of income.  I see no reason why it is taxed differently.

All taxes serve to both raise income for the government and to incentivize/disincentivize behavior.

The capital gain tax rate is intended to keep savings in the capital markets instead of banks. If you tax it at marginal rates, you get a big move out of the market.


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[MusicMan]

The clown ox will make a mockery of the 10,000 straws.

Jimmy has big plans and fancy pants to match.


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[Limey]

The clown ox will make a mockery of the 10,000 straws.

I will not buy this record; it is scratched. 

[Limey]

Cool education on capital gains.  Thanks fellas. 

[BudGirl]

I'd vote for him.

[Lefty]

The only people who complain about a "wealth" tax are the ones who would have to pay it. Everyone else would welcome the chance to be in their situation.

How do you and Limey define "dynastic wealth"?

[MusicMan]

Roger Stone woke up to the FBI at his door this morning and an indictment on 7 counts.

Mueller has the emails of Stone and “Person 1” coordinating the WikiLeaks releases.


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[Limey]

How do you and Limey define "dynastic wealth"?

For me, it’s like porn: you know it when you see it. 

Bill Gates was once asked if his kids were upset that he seemed to be bent on giving away their inheritance through his foundation.  He answered: “I want to leave them enough money to do something, but not enough to do nothing.”

Economists and lawmakers can figure out the details, but yesterday’s parade of suggestions that furloughed federal works simply eat cake, that they can get for free from the grocery store, was the best commercial possible for Warren’s proposal. 

[jbm]

Roger Stone woke up to the FBI at his door this morning and an indictment on 7 counts.

Mueller has the emails of Stone and “Person 1” coordinating the WikiLeaks releases.


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I wonder if the other inmates will understand his Nixon tattoo

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

How do you and Limey define "dynastic wealth"?

I'm not sure. My statement was from the perspective of someone who is definitely not wealthy.

I am more concerned with the rate of pay to CEOs and such. Last year AT&T' stock lost nearly a quarter of its value. I know there are some  things one can't control, yet AT&T CEO Randal Stevenson still made around $30MM. He didn't invent the phone, or television or the internet. He isn't related to Alexander Graham Bell. He isn't that special. There are thousands of people who can do his job. And that is true for most corporations.

If you tax the super wealthy's assests how will that impact their capital gains too? How will that account for inflation. There are a lot of unanswered questions still.

[Limey]

Roger Stone woke up to the FBI at his door this morning and an indictment on 7 counts.

Mueller has the emails of Stone and “Person 1” coordinating the WikiLeaks releases.

So, once again, Count Rudi’s seemingly gaffed comments were actually him just socializing the fact that there is evidence of collusion involving the Trump campaign, but not (as yet) involving Trump himself.

However, the senior campaign official diected to reach out to Stone to find out what else Wikileaks had reportedly is Bannon.  Who was in a position to direct Bannon to do something when, at the time, he was head of the campaign?

The net is being closed.  Don Jr. and Kushner are the next two to get perp-walked 

[jbm]

At some point, the Democrats need to push back against Rudy and his parsing Trump out of this shit.  I, as a citizen, don't fucking care if they can convict Trump in a court of law of collusion/conspiracy.  The standard for impeachment IS NOT the standard for a court of law.  I only care whether there is evidence that the campaign run by Trump worked with an adversary; that's enough for me. 

[Limey]

At some point, the Democrats need to push back against Rudy and his parsing Trump out of this shit.  I, as a citizen, don't fucking care if they can convict Trump in a court of law of collusion/conspiracy.  The standard for impeachment IS NOT the standard for a court of law.  I only care whether there is evidence that the campaign run by Trump worked with an adversary; that's enough for me.

We are past the point at which Republicans turned on Nixon and the point at which they actually had an impeachment trial of Clinton is about 12 hyperspace jumps behind us.

There is some fear amongst pundits is that impeachment is political suicide, but I don’t see it.  Republicans got electorally thumped after the Clinton effort because it was ridiculous to have gone through all of that when all they had in the end was that he lied about a blowjob.  They got electorally thumped after Nixon because they were of his party and had spent the months and years leading up to his resignation defending him and running interference for him (sound familiar?) and then pardoned him afterwards. 

Neither of those things apply here.  However, I do think they need to do what they’re doing now first, because just like getting rid of Agnew before moving to remove Nixon, we can’t leave the White House still in the slimy grasp of all those Trumpanzees.  Pence is up to his judgmental eyeballs in Flynn’s shit at least. 

[jbm]

If I was asked last night about impeachment, I would have said it was too early because they hadn’t yet established a core offense such as “the Trump campaign enlisted the Russians to cheat on an American election.”  While there are likely other more egregious offenses that will later be established, this particular offense is enough.

I’m also OK if the Senate won’t convict. By the time is makes it to the Senate, we will be close enough to the election anyway and most importantly, the Republicans will be forced to go on the record that sleeping with a real enemy is hunky dory with them.

In a broad sense, it will be the Democrats saying “We give shit about our democracy, and will act to protect it.”  If the Republicans want to send a different message, that’s their choice.

[Limey]

Trump running through his xenophobic greatest hits to make himself feel better after getting his arse handed to him by Pelosi for the second time this week. 

Four women are in a car being trafficked across the border - turning right or left - because of the internet.  These are prepared, scripted remarks.  What the fucking fuck is he talking about?

[Bench]

So it sounds to me like there will be three weeks of feckless negotiations for Trump's "wall" (which he now says was never meant to be concrete nor continuous) with unreasonable demands designed to avoid agreement. Then, instead of going down the disastrous route of shutting down the government (again) he'll declare a national emergency to build the wall. The courts will either allow it or immediately block it, in which case he can blame the democrats and "liberal judges."

[Bench]

If I was asked last night about impeachment, I would have said it was too early because they hadn’t yet established a core offense such as “the Trump campaign enlisted the Russians to cheat on an American election.”  While there are likely other more egregious offenses that will later be established, this particular offense is enough.

I’m also OK if the Senate won’t convict. By the time is makes it to the Senate, we will be close enough to the election anyway and most importantly, the Republicans will be forced to go on the record that sleeping with a real enemy is hunky dory with them.

In a broad sense, it will be the Democrats saying “We give shit about our democracy, and will act to protect it.”  If the Republicans want to send a different message, that’s their choice.

One doesn't start with articles of impeachment.  There need to be congressional investigations and hearings. Start those and see what facts come to light.

[Limey]

So it sounds to me like there will be three weeks of feckless negotiations for Trump's "wall" (which he now says was never meant to be concrete nor continuous) with unreasonable demands designed to avoid agreement. Then, instead of going down the disastrous route of shutting down the government (again) he'll declare a national emergency to build the wall. The courts will either allow it or immediately block it, in which case he can blame the democrats and "liberal judges."

He can’t declare a national emergency with the government shut down because who is going to be there to act on it?

[Limey]

Ann Coulter just tweeted that Trump is the biggest wimp ever to be POTUS.  🤣🤣🤣

[MusicMan]

One doesn't start with articles of impeachment.  There need to be congressional investigations and hearings. Start those and see what facts come to light.

Wait, a constitutional coequal branch of government fulfilling its obligations? What sorcery is this?


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[MusicMan]

Ann Coulter just tweeted that Trump is the biggest wimp ever to be POTUS.  [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]

“Truman was too much of a wimp to drop the bomb on real cities” - Ann Coulter, probably


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[jbm]

One doesn't start with articles of impeachment.  There need to be congressional investigations and hearings. Start those and see what facts come to light.

I basically agree, but it’s sematics to me at this point. When I say impeachment, I mean hearings to publicly establish the facts and educate the public on an offense that has now been outlined through Mueller and public reporting.

[Bench]

Ann Coulter just tweeted that Trump is the biggest wimp ever to be POTUS.  🤣🤣🤣

Her actual words were "Good news for George Herbert Walker Bush: As of today, he is no longer the biggest wimp ever to serve as President of the United States."

I don't think it qualifies as "too soon" but holy shit is that extra obnoxious.

[Limey]

Her actual words were "Good news for George Herbert Walker Bush: As of today, he is no longer the biggest wimp ever to serve as President of the United States."

I don't think it qualifies as "too soon" but holy shit is that extra obnoxious.

Especially as Bush was a decorated combat veteran. 

[geezerdonk]

Yes he is.

[Bench]

Yes he is.

/golf clap

[MusicMan]

Yes he is.

He was going to stand firm on his demands but his bone spurs flared up.


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[moriartp]

It’s funny how fast these dipshits fold once the workers stand up to them. The air traffic controllers and flight attendants and TSA just handed Trump his ass. And kudos to the Dems for holding the line.

[Bench]

He was going to stand firm on his demands but his bone spurs flared up.


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I assumed Geezerdonk was referencing the is he/isn't he a combat veteran discussion about the Native American elder.

[Lefty]

I would love to know the percentage of you assfucks who have ever, in fact, been within 50 miles of the Tex/Mex border.

It seems to me like a whole bunch of people from Iowa talking about stuff that really does not concern them.

[MusicMan]

I would love to know the percentage of you assfucks who have ever, in fact, been within 50 miles of the Tex/Mex border.

It seems to me like a whole bunch of people from Iowa talking about stuff that really does not concern them.

Well, I’ve made multiple trips to the border, and across. But do I still get to be a, how you say, assfuck?


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[Lefty]

Well, I’ve made multiple trips to the border, and across. But do I still get to be a, how you say, assfuck?


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Sure, you're in.

It just galls me to hear "middle america", Michigan, etc... cry about this "crisis" when it really has zero effect on them....other than the availability of produce and the cutting of lawns and the building of homes and infrastructure.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

It just galls me to hear "middle america", Michigan, etc... cry about this "crisis" when it really has zero effect on them....other than the availability of produce and the cutting of lawns and the building of homes and infrastructure.

Who is gonna clean their homes?

[HudsonHawk]

“Truman was too much of a wimp to drop the bomb on real cities” - Ann Coulter, probably


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“Truman was too much of a pussywimp to let MacArthur go in there and blow out those commie bastards!” - Thornton Melon

[austro]

Ann Coulter is a real piece of work. What made her so bitter?

[HudsonHawk]

Ann Coulter is a real piece of work. What made her so bitter?

They botched his sex change operation?

[MusicMan]

“Truman was too much of a pussywimp to let MacArthur go in there and blow out those commie bastards!” - Thornton Melon

SAY IT! SAY IT! SAY IT!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[MusicMan]

They botched his sex change operation?

You’d think she’d do more do support trans rights.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Lefty]

SAY IT! SAY IT! SAY IT!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'll be watching you.

[MusicMan]

I'll be watching you.

He really seems to care... about what, I have no idea.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Limey]

Pelosi doesn’t mind kicking a man when he’s down.

Meanwhile, Trump is flailing and getting no sympathy. 

[Navin R Johnson]

Ann Coulter is a real piece of work. What made her so bitter?

Money

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I understand that you think I'm some kind of a goon, though that's never been my intention. I think you are naïve but I'm sure that was not your intention. We really don't know each other at all, though someday if we meet I'm sure we'll get along fine.

I don't think you're a goon. I'm a partisan: I have a harder time processing intelligent people who stand on the sidelines and think both sides are equally shit than people who just flat see things differently. My mother- and father-in-law are good Dems who always only ever blame non-voters for all the bad outcomes, never the people who voted (however mysteriously) for the other side. I'm always annoyed by their attitude but at bottom I get it--I feel it, even. Anyone who'd vote for Trump is, to me, politically unknowable and probably irredeemable, while a Colonel Drummond lobbing equivalence grenades, preaching love and hating on Hilary poses a more morally vexing dilemma.

And I understand why smart people would conclude that I'm naive. I have a complicated relationship with the concept, influenced in the main by my suspicion that cynicism is the chief ailment of our age. Once innocence is lost, it seems in my view a defensible position that it should be reasserted a bit. I tend to think that we become what we think we are, thus that thinking we might be (or could be) better than evidence might suggest is actually not just a good idea, but a necessary one.

I could go on and on and on about this stuff, and I'm sure that if we do ever meet we'd have a good time talking about it, and I have no doubt whatsoever that we'd get along very well. 

[Limey]

If you wanted any more proof - aside from decades of economic data - that the game is rigged for the wealthy; Howard Schultz just put a spotlight on it.  With Trump plumbing the depths of the Mariana Trench with his poll numbers and a Democratic field that is espousing - and getting significant traction on - wealth taxes, a billionaire jumps into the race.

Not as a Republican to challenge Trump and not as a Democrat to challenge - and having to debate - the Democrats; as an independent.  This way he spends some of his money to skip the primaries and still achieves his goal of preventing a Democrat from raising his taxes.  If he runs, he won’t win, but he’ll siphon off votes from the Democrat and that’s fine for him either way.

[Limey]

A Schultz advisor was just on tv.  His rationale for running is “Hey!  Donald Trump did it.”

A couple of points here:
1)  Schultz’ arguments thus far have all be against Democrats, so it’s clear he doesn’t think Trump is a factor; and
2)  He says he’s a lifelong Democrat. 

Fuck you Howard Schultz!   You have said that Democrats can’t raise taxes and that Medicare-for-All is unaffordable.  You are just trying to protect your own wealth, and if we get 4 more years of Trump to do it, so be it.  If I didn’t already avoid Starbucks as much as possible, I’d start right now.  Fuck you!

[chuck]

I'm beginning to rethink my stance on taxing long term capital gains.

[Limey]

I'm beginning to rethink my stance on taxing long term capital gains.

Don’t worry; Trump is going to default on the national debt in order to get his wall, and everyone’s shit will be worthless.

[jbm]

From what little I've seen of Schultz' interviews, my first impression was "wow, he really considers(ed) himself a Democrat. Sounds more like a Republican."  His passion appears primarily focused on one issue: keep your taxes off my wealth.  Not surprisingly, he doesn't view wealth disparity as a problem, or if he has to grudgingly accept it is, then the obvious solution is to raise others up (modern version of trickle down).  However, he doesn't have any real idea about how to do it.  He scoffs at ideas such as medicare for all or some form of free education.  He also doesn't want a lot of immigrants from the south.  You know, they lead to more of the welfare stuff he hates.  He's basically the rich Republican who is not comfortable with the Evangelical stuff and he hates Trump because he is a vulgar buffoon. 

I can see his candidacy changing the dynamic in a way that benefits Trump, but who knows if Trump will even be around by then.  In that case, his candidacy might just serve to elect someone antithetical to his passion.

In a related note, people like him and Bloomberg need to open their eyes.  Keeping up the pressure to secure this insane income disparity might well lead to catastrophic consequences for them.

[Limey]

From what little I've seen of Schultz' interviews, my first impression was "wow, he really considers(ed) himself a Democrat. Sounds more like a Republican."  His passion appears primarily focused on one issue: keep your taxes off my wealth.  Not surprisingly, he doesn't view wealth disparity as a problem, or if he has to grudgingly accept it is, then the obvious solution is to raise others up (modern version of trickle down).  However, he doesn't have any real idea about how to do it.  He scoffs at ideas such as medicare for all or some form of free education.  He also doesn't want a lot of immigrants from the south.  You know, they lead to more of the welfare stuff he hates.  He's basically the rich Republican who is not comfortable with the Evangelical stuff and he hates Trump because he is a vulgar buffoon. 

I can see his candidacy changing the dynamic in a way that benefits Trump, but who knows if Trump will even be around by then.  In that case, his candidacy might just serve to elect someone antithetical to his passion.

In a related note, people like him and Bloomberg need to open their eyes.  Keeping up the pressure to secure this insane income disparity might well lead to catastrophic consequences for them.

Schultz' roll-out has been a disaster.  For example, he declined to answer a question on tax policy because he doesn't want to discuss hypotheticals.  WTF?  At this point, that's your only job!

But you're right, he's a corporatist, pretending to be a social liberal, running to stop actual liberals from increasing his taxes.  He's also the only way that Trump gets a second term, and it's scaring the living shit out of me right now.

[Bench]

Schultz' roll-out has been a disaster.  For example, he declined to answer a question on tax policy because he doesn't want to discuss hypotheticals.  WTF?  At this point, that's your only job!

But you're right, he's a corporatist, pretending to be a social liberal, running to stop actual liberals from increasing his taxes.  He's also the only way that Trump gets a second term, and it's scaring the living shit out of me right now.

It's telling that his logo is his printed name with his signature on top of it. He seems to have little regard for anything that he doesn't perceive as affecting him.

I can imagine a scenario where he draws votes away from Trump for people who think the Democratic candidate is too liberal and would otherwise begrudgingly vote for Trump. But the fact is that a billionaire running a hopeless independent campaign is purely a vanity project.

[BudGirl]

They all seem like Ross Perots to me.

[Limey]

Anyway, who in the world ever thought that, when Trump tweeted out that he was cancelling his meeting, that he was ever in a million years going to not have the meeting?  Just add this one to the long list of meetings that TrumpWorld never had with Russians.

Yeah, about that.  The meeting with Putin at the G20 in Argentina that was cancelled...happened.

Donald Trump sat down with Vladimir Putin for several minutes of conversation at the end of an evening event at the G20 summit in Buenos Aires in November, with no translator or note-taker from the US side to record the dialogue between the leaders, according to people who had direct knowledge of the encounter or were briefed on it.

Follow-up reporting says the conversation was about 15 minutes.

Yesterday, the heads of the intelligence community were in front of Congress or a regularly scheduled briefing.  In between completely debunking all of Trump's statements about what is and what isn't a security threat (N. Korea is, the southern border isn't), Haspel (CIA) and Coates (NSA) were asked if Trump taking meetings with Putin - from which the US has no record of what was discussed but Russia does - made it harder to do their job, they declined to answer in open session.  Clearly, the answer cannot be "no".

[Limey]

Medicare-for-All looks like it's going to get a proper airing in the 2020 process - at least on the Democratic side.  Kamala Harris said recently that she doesn't see private insurers being involved going forward.  This got some pushback from Michael Bloomberg, saying it would bankrupt the country.  It's an interesting and, dare I say it, naive take.

The simple truth is that if you add up all the healthcare premiums paid to private insurers, plus all the deductibles and copays etc. that come out of the pockets of policyholders, you get to roughly the same number as the $32 trillion scare-number that is used against M4A.  The difference being that the M4A proposal insures everyone, while the private insurance number includes trillions of dollars of corporate profit.

I don't understand the business objection to M4A.  Providing health insurance to its employees is a massive cost to an employer and, because the ACA was a private insurance hybrid, the law had to take steps to stop employers of a certain size from throwing their employees off their own insurance and onto the exchanges.  So employers clearly would be happy to be relieved of the burden.

Maybe it comes down to the tax policy that would pay for it, or the fact that people unshackled from their employers' plans would be more free to change jobs or break out and start up their own businesses.  I really don't know.  But the Bloombergs of this world misunderstand the process (accidentally or on purpose) because they speak as if no new money would be put into Medicare to pay for its new beneficiaries.  That's not how this works.

If you'd forgotten how much you hate Joe Lieberman, here's a little reminder:  the ACA was going to allow a Medicare buy-in for people aged 55 or older.  That meant that those eligible could buy health insurance from Medicare as a competing insurer to Kaiser Soze Permanente etc.  That would be a powerful option both to control the cost of insurance for older Americans and allow people to do things like retire early.  The vote to enact this fell one short in the Senate; that vote being Joe Lieberman's.

But the blueprint is there.  Allow people 55 and older to buy-in; then 45 and older; then 35 and older.  You get the picture.  Creeping appropriation of the private insurance market into the wildly popular, wildly cost-effective Medicare system.  Yes, this sucks for health insurance company employees and HR staff (sorry Zipp) but that's no reason to leave millions without access to healthcare and tens of millions more on the brink - or actually plummeting into - bankruptcy because of an illness.

[Bench]

Medicare-for-All looks like it's going to get a proper airing in the 2020 process - at least on the Democratic side.  Kamala Harris said recently that she doesn't see private insurers being involved going forward.  This got some pushback from Michael Bloomberg, saying it would bankrupt the country.  It's an interesting and, dare I say it, naive take.

The simple truth is that if you add up all the healthcare premiums paid to private insurers, plus all the deductibles and copays etc. that come out of the pockets of policyholders, you get to roughly the same number as the $32 trillion scare-number that is used against M4A.  The difference being that the M4A proposal insures everyone, while the private insurance number includes trillions of dollars of corporate profit.

I don't understand the business objection to M4A.  Providing health insurance to its employees is a massive cost to an employer and, because the ACA was a private insurance hybrid, the law had to take steps to stop employers of a certain size from throwing their employees off their own insurance and onto the exchanges.  So employers clearly would be happy to be relieved of the burden.

Maybe it comes down to the tax policy that would pay for it, or the fact that people unshackled from their employers' plans would be more free to change jobs or break out and start up their own businesses.  I really don't know.  But the Bloombergs of this world misunderstand the process (accidentally or on purpose) because they speak as if no new money would be put into Medicare to pay for its new beneficiaries.  That's not how this works.

If you'd forgotten how much you hate Joe Lieberman, here's a little reminder:  the ACA was going to allow a Medicare buy-in for people aged 55 or older.  That meant that those eligible could buy health insurance from Medicare as a competing insurer to Kaiser Soze Permanente etc.  That would be a powerful option both to control the cost of insurance for older Americans and allow people to do things like retire early.  The vote to enact this fell one short in the Senate; that vote being Joe Lieberman's.

But the blueprint is there.  Allow people 55 and older to buy-in; then 45 and older; then 35 and older.  You get the picture.  Creeping appropriation of the private insurance market into the wildly popular, wildly cost-effective Medicare system.  Yes, this sucks for health insurance company employees and HR staff (sorry Zipp) but that's no reason to leave millions without access to healthcare and tens of millions more on the brink - or actually plummeting into - bankruptcy because of an illness.

Isn't there still a fairly robust private health insurance market in places like Canada and the UK?

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I can imagine a scenario where he draws votes away from Trump for people who think the Democratic candidate is too liberal and would otherwise begrudgingly vote for Trump. But the fact is that a billionaire running a hopeless independent campaign is purely a vanity project.

This.

[Limey]

Isn't there still a fairly robust private health insurance market in places like Canada and the UK?

Yes, but they provide supplemental plans that, for example, plug the gaps that open when you take your gubmint insurance to a private hospital.  I doubt they have the same staffing needs as the death panels private health insurers in the US.

The UK has the National Health Service, which is separate from, but has a symbiotic relationship with, National Health Insurance.  It's like being in-network and out-of-network with your insurance here: an NHS provider will give you healthcare that is completely devoid of any cost to you whatsoever, save a small copay for take-home prescriptions, while a private healthcare provider will mean you incur deductibles and other out-of-pocket costs that the state insurance doesn't cover.  Supplemental plans - often provided as a perk by larger employers - cover those gaps allowing you to skip any line and have a nicer, private room.  These plans are quite cheap because they are never needed to pay for primary or emergency care.

The complaint about long lines is a straw man.  If you have the money (or insurance) you can go private and get your healthcare done on your own schedule.  If you don't, you may be subjected to a wait for non-emergency procedures (e.g. hip replacements) but in the end it gets done for absolutely no cost to you.  This is still preferable than never being able to have your hip replaced because you can't afford it.

[Limey]

Looks like Schultz is flaming out spectacularly.  He just tried to delete tweets calling Warren “fauxcahontas” and Harris “shrill”.  It also turns out that he rarely, if ever, votes.  He’s not getting better in interviews, he’s getting worse (said that Reagan was a great president because he never took his jacket off in the Oval Office. 

He’s done.  Thank the maker. 

[Limey]

Correction:  Schultz tweeted an article that said those things about Warren and Harris, he didn’t say them himself.  However, his personal brand is still sinking like a stone because of this and his other prior public statements. 

[Limey]

Internal polling by Howard Schultz’ campaign shows him getting only 17% of the vote.  The same polling shows Trump beating a hypothetical Democrat 33 to 32.  It’s not an unknown what his campaign will do if he takes it to the polls in 2020:  re-elect Donald Trump.

[jbm]

So, the dipshit is going to have a rally next week in El Paso, presumably to build support for his wall.  He spoke/lied last night that El Paso was one of America's most dangerous cities before the barrier law in 2006.  It wasn't, and unless I'm mistaken, the barrier in the parts of El Paso I'm familiar with, would not commonly be called a wall.  It's fencing as one can clearly see across to Juarez.

Most importantly, most everyone who resides in El Paso or any border town, can attest to the fact that there is no national emergency.  People come across, legally and illegally (at a much slower pace than in the past) and life goes on.  No fucking emergency.

[jbm]

And while I'm at it, remember the recent story about 95,000 voters that were voting illegally in Texas?  Yeah, it was false.  Total bullshit, created by people trying to twist facts to fit their preconceptions.  When called to justify the data, they hem-haw, acknowledge that it's not accurate but maintain that they are still trying to ascertain the "correct number."   

Just like the "border emergency," "illegal voting" is a complete fucking lie told by immoral pieces of crap to keep the torches of their ignorant followers fully ablaze.

[Bench]

And while I'm at it, remember the recent story about 95,000 voters that were voting illegally in Texas?  Yeah, it was false.  Total bullshit, created by people trying to twist facts to fit their preconceptions.  When called to justify the data, they hem-haw, acknowledge that it's not accurate but maintain that they are still trying to ascertain the "correct number."   

Just like the "border emergency," "illegal voting" is a complete fucking lie told by immoral pieces of crap to keep the torches of their ignorant followers fully ablaze.

Limey were you on the list?

[Limey]

Limey were you on the list?

Not that I'm aware of.

The problem with all these lies is that they turn into zombies.  They can't be killed.  You can play whackamole day-in, day-out and they will just come back from some re-share from some idiot (or Russian bot) that just puts it back out there.  People see the same story over and over again, and think it's another example, not the same example.

Russians are already promoting Tulsi Whatsherface just for shits and giggles.  We are so fucked.

[moriartp]

Russians are already promoting Tulsi Whatsherface just for shits and giggles.

So is David Duke. What a time to be alive.

[Lefty]

So is David Duke. What a time to be alive.

I bet Duke even took the time to learn her last name before trying to make her a mockery.

Well, ok maybe not.

[Limey]

Big news yesterday out of the House Intelligence Committee:

1)  Adam Schiff is the Chairman, so no longer is there a need to put quotation marks around the word "intelligence";
2)  They gathered up over 50 transcripts of congressional testimony, put a big, red, fucking bow on them, and gave them to Mueller; and
3)  They rolled out a series of investigation threads on which they are going to pull.


The transcripts are a big deal, because everyone who has testified in front of the committee is now going to be investigated for perjury and obstruction of justice.  Mueller has the facts and now he has the official transcripts - that Devin Numbnes and his cronies were sitting on - in order to prosecute where appropriate.

The investigations are an even bigger deal because, even though the overlap Mueller to a large extent, they are much wider in scope.  For example, they are looking into whether any foreign power or person has any influence over any member of the Trump administration.  They are looking into all of the contacts between Russians and TrumpWorld before, during and after the election.  They are looking into any obstruction of the committee's investigation, by word or deed, which means that this thread will be pulling on the unraveling blanket covering the actions of the likes of Devin Nubmnes.

Trump's bomb of a rhyme in the SOTU about investigations just gives more weight and urgency to the need for same.  He is terrified by the House committees and it's showing.  As I have said before, we're in the endgame now.  Only Virginia's clusterfuck of an executive branch is keeping this stuff off the TV...for now.

[Limey]

Oh, and the SDNY just shoved it's hand so far up the arse of the Trump Inaugural Committee that it came out of Putin's mouth.  They want to know where the money came from, where it went, and who got any special treatment as a result of a donation; the inauguration events were rife with random Russians, for example.  Subpoenas have been issued and pants have been filled.

[Bench]

For example, they are looking into whether any foreign power or person has any influence over any member of the Trump administration. 

Turkey, Saudi, China, the list goes on.

[Limey]

Severe flop-sweat warning:

When the Senate postponed the confirmation vote on Trump's nominee for AG, there was an interesting side effect.  Acting AG Wilson Fisk Matthew Whitaker had been called to testify to the House Judiciary Committee on 2/8, but he was expected to be able to body-swerve that appearance when the new AG was put in place.  Once that didn't happen, Whitaker's date became set and now he's scrambling because he's going to be on the spot and he has no clue what he is doing.

Oh, and the ramp up the pressure, Chairman Nadler has announced that he has subpoenas already drafted and will use them on Whitaker during his testimony if they think he is being evasive or untruthful.  Whitaker may spend more time in jail than he spent as Acting AG.

[Limey]

Turkey, Saudi, China, the list goes on.

Trump, Trump Jr, Jared, Ivanka, Bannon*...the list goes on.

* I laughed out loud when I heard that name in the mix.  Fuck that scabby piece of shit.

[BudGirl]

Limey, do you realize how many people would still vote for him?

When that man said he could murder someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it, he was telling the truth.  Many people believe whatever he says.    Those people are not going to believe any real facts.  When someone tells you lies for so long, you start to believe them.  Just ask abused women how it works.

[Limey]

Limey, do you realize how many people would still vote for him?

When that man said he could murder someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it, he was telling the truth.  Many people believe whatever he says.    Those people are not going to believe any real facts.  When someone tells you lies for so long, you start to believe them.  Just ask abused women how it works.

Oh trust me, I know that his base is as solid (and as dumb) as a rock.  However, he cannot outrun Congress - if it chooses to do its job - and he cannot outrun the SDNY because he has no authority over a state entity.  Schultz can fuck up the 2020 election (or Democrats can do it all by themselves - see the nonsense already starting with Klobachar), but the legal process is - at this point - a homing glacier that's coming for Trump.  There is just far too much illegal shit that's far too obviously and stupidly perpetrated for his criminal liability not to be substantial and provable.

[moriartp]

Oh trust me, I know that his base is as solid (and as dumb) as a rock.  However, he cannot outrun Congress - if it chooses to do its job - and he cannot outrun the SDNY because he has no authority over a state entity.  Schultz can fuck up the 2020 election (or Democrats can do it all by themselves - see the nonsense already starting with Klobachar), but the legal process is - at this point - a homing glacier that's coming for Trump.  There is just far too much illegal shit that's far too obviously and stupidly perpetrated for his criminal liability not to be substantial and provable.

SDNY is a Federal entity.

[Ty in Tampa]

Oh trust me, I know that his base is as solid (and as dumb) as a rock.

You sell them short. Dumb is not what makes the base rock-solid.

[jbm]

Severe flop-sweat warning:

When the Senate postponed the confirmation vote on Trump's nominee for AG, there was an interesting side effect.  Acting AG Wilson Fisk Matthew Whitaker had been called to testify to the House Judiciary Committee on 2/8, but he was expected to be able to body-swerve that appearance when the new AG was put in place.  Once that didn't happen, Whitaker's date became set and now he's scrambling because he's going to be on the spot and he has no clue what he is doing.

Oh, and the ramp up the pressure, Chairman Nadler has announced that he has subpoenas already drafted and will use them on Whitaker during his testimony if they think he is being evasive or untruthful.  Whitaker may spend more time in jail than he spent as Acting AG.

From CNN:

The Justice Department told the House Judiciary Committee Thursday afternoon that acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker will not appear at Friday's closely-watched oversight hearing unless he receives a written assurance by 6 p.m. ET Thursday that he will not be served with the subpoena the committee pre-emptively authorized to use if he avoids questions.

Damn, just like one of Trump's criminal associates.  What does he have to hide?  Crooked motherfuckers, all of em.

[Bench]

From CNN:

Damn, just like one of Trump's criminal associates.  What does he have to hide?  Crooked motherfuckers, all of em.

Doesn't really seem like a good strategy going forward. How does the "acting" AG and his team not know how subpoenas work?

[Limey]

Doesn't really seem like a good strategy going forward. How does the "acting" AG and his team not know how subpoenas work?

He likely just guaranteed being hit with a subpoena.  Nadler might as well serve him now and compel his appearance tomorrow.

[Limey]

He likely just guaranteed being hit with a subpoena.  Nadler might as well serve him now and compel his appearance tomorrow.

As of now, Whitaker is going to appear.

[jbm]

I thought the vote was to overturn the LA law.

The hearing has started.  The meathead is in his chair and some Republican is squealing, about what I can't really understand.

[Limey]

I thought the vote was to overturn the LA law.

The hearing has started.  The meathead is in his chair and some Republican is squealing, about what I can't really understand.

I deleted my post because I'd got the result back-to-front: the LA law's implementation was postponed by dint of Chief Justice Roberts' swing vote along with the 4 "liberal" Justices.  Yes, Roberts is now the swing vote.  However, Kavanaugh broke with SCOTUS precedent - which Collins claimed Kavanaugh pinky-swore that he'd never do - at the very first opportunity to do so when an abortion case came before the court.

Re: Whitaker, Nadler laid down the law in his opening address - telling Whitaker that the time of stonewalling is over and, even if he reverts to being a private citizen, he will not escape oversight.  Then, Rep Collins rebutted by channeling his inner Lindsey Graham, getting red faced, screaming, and demanding a vote to adjourn the proceeding.  He lost it...both ways.

Your failure to respond fully to our questions here today in no way limits the ability of this committee to get the answers in the long run – even if you are a private citizen when we finally learn the truth. And although I am willing to work with the department to obtain this information, I will not allow that process to drag out for weeks and months. The time for this administration to postpone accountability is over.

We have laid all of the groundwork for this hearing out in the open. We have given you months to prepare. We have publicly documented every request we have made to you. We have provided our Republican colleagues with a meaningful opportunity to weigh in on the process. We have nothing to hide from you. We hope you have nothing to hide from us.

[Limey]

Whitaker literally called "time" on Nadler, refusing to answer a question because he was told that it would be 5-minutes per questioner and Chairman Nadler had gone over his allotment.  There were gasps and guffaws from the gallery.

That's going to come back to bite him.  Ted Lieu has been baiting Whitaker for weeks now and I'm sure is itching to get at him.  He's trying to pull a Kavanaugh but he doesn't have a friendly chairman to protect him like Beery Brett.

[Bench]

He's trying to pull a Kavanaugh but he doesn't have a friendly chairman to protect him like Beery Brett.

Nor does he have the protection of lifetime tenure by getting through the process.

[Limey]

In a moment that would put MENSA to shame, Louis Gohmert (R-BFE), read part of Whitaker’s opening statement back to him, and Whitaker said that he was not familiar with the comments. 

[Bench]

Trump's Bedminster golf course employed so many undocumented workers for so long that there's an entire village in Costa Rica built on those paychecks.

“My whole town practically lived there.”

[chuck]

In a moment that would put MENSA to shame, Louis Gohmert (R-BFE), read part of Whitaker’s opening statement back to him, and Whitaker said that he was not familiar with the comments.

I almost don't believe you.

Almost.

[Bench]

I almost don't believe you.

Almost.

It's not as if Louie has ever had an original thought himself.

[Lefty]

In a moment that would put MENSA to shame, Louis Gohmert (R-BFE), read part of Whitaker’s opening statement back to him, and Whitaker said that he was not familiar with the comments. 

I wish you would post links to a lot of the stuff you post here.  Not saying anything about the veracity at all, it's just nice to read a bit more detail and if I want to share it with someone I know where to find it.  I do appreciate your and other's running commentary in this thread.

[Bench]

I wish you would post links to a lot of the stuff you post here.  Not saying anything about the veracity at all, it's just nice to read a bit more detail and if I want to share it with someone I know where to find it.  I do appreciate your and other's running commentary in this thread.

The Link

Whitaker found a friendly face in Rep. Louis Gohmert (R-TX), who seemed to question why he was even testifying.

“I don’t know what kind of suicide wish you had or whatever but it’s good to see you,” he said.

Gohmert then read Whitaker portions of his opening statement about crime and the southern border, which the acting attorney general failed to recognize.

[Lefty]

The Link

Whitaker found a friendly face in Rep. Louis Gohmert (R-TX), who seemed to question why he was even testifying.

“I don’t know what kind of suicide wish you had or whatever but it’s good to see you,” he said.

Gohmert then read Whitaker portions of his opening statement about crime and the southern border, which the acting attorney general failed to recognize.

Thanks.  Ol' Gohmert is always good for unintentional comedy.

[Limey]

Tax refunds are starting to show up - low income earners tend to file early - and you’ll never guess.  They’re paying more in taxes this year so their refunds are shrinking or even turning into invoices. 

$1,500,000,000,000 in tax cuts and the poorest of us are paying more.  This is not an accident. 

[BudGirl]

Tax refunds are starting to show up - low income earners tend to file early - and you’ll never guess.  They’re paying more in taxes this year so their refunds are shrinking or even turning into invoices. 

$1,500,000,000,000 in tax cuts and the poorest of us are paying more.  This is not an accident. 

My refund was less but my tax "break" was throughout the year.  Regardless I paid the same.  So I got no break.  I didn't expect to get screwed this year I thought it was going to be next year.

[MusicMan]

Tax refunds are starting to show up - low income earners tend to file early - and you’ll never guess.  They’re paying more in taxes this year so their refunds are shrinking or even turning into invoices. 

$1,500,000,000,000 in tax cuts and the poorest of us are paying more.  This is not an accident.

It may not precisely be that they’re paying more. The administration directed the IRS to reduce withholding levels to “properly reflect” the new rates, and they went too far (of course) resulting in a nasty surprise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Limey]

It may not precisely be that they’re paying more. The administration directed the IRS to reduce withholding levels to “properly reflect” the new rates, and they went too far (of course) resulting in a nasty surprise.

People are looking at the raw numbers - not just the amount of the refund (or lack thereof) - and seeing that they're paying more overall.  I am expecting to pay more because the cap on the property tax deduction is going to raise my taxes more than the increased allowances reduce them because I itemize, so I don't benefit from the increased allowances.

Again, there's $1.5 trillion less taxes being taken - some of that should have trickled down to me but they aren't even bothering with that any more.

[Limey]

From Fake NBC News:

Jason Marques, a postal worker, pizza delivery driver and student in Massachusetts said that, since his income didn’t change, he was expecting a similar refund to the roughly $6,000 he got last year — money he said would go towards his student loans or paying off credit card debt.

Marques said he was hurt by the cap on student loan interest deduction and the elimination of non-reimbursed business expenses, which he used to deduct the out-of-pocket costs he incurred as a delivery driver. “My jaw hit the floor,” he said, when he learned his 2018 refund would be under $500.

Anecdotal for sure, but there's no finagling of allowances and withholdings that's going to reduce the refund of someone with everything otherwise unchanged by 90%.  Ninety fucking percent.  Another example in the article talks about a lady who engineers her taxes to owe a little - maybe $100 - but this year owes $1,000.  I know mine are higher; and as more of us file our taxes more of us will find how we're all getting fucked so that Trump's Mar-a-Lago buddies get more disgustingly rich.

While some people likely noticed an uptick in their take-home pay, the amount might have been small enough that people didn’t notice, especially those who get direct deposit and might not look at their pay stubs. What’s more, workers who had an increase in their health insurance premiums or other paycheck deductions might have missed the bump entirely.

Postal worker Marques said he didn’t notice a change in his take-home pay after the new withholding rules took effect. “It looks like it was a bunch of gimmicking,” he said. “I didn’t know how badly it was actually going to hurt.”

[Limey]

A new Washington Post poll has responders 2:1 in favor of impeachment if Trump obstructed justice or colluded with Russia   As far as whether that has been proven yet or not, the response is pretty much 50:50, but almost everyone - 81% - wants to see Mueller’s report. 

[BudGirl]

Here's a counter-argument about Trump and collusion.  It's still Hillary's fault.

[jbm]

I'm sure that I should know something about Investors Business Daily, but I didn't.  However, I hope they give daily investing advice of the same quality to all Trump supporters.

[HudsonHawk]

A new Washington Post poll has responders 2:1 in favor of impeachment if Trump obstructed justice or colluded with Russia   As far as whether that has been proven yet or not, the response is pretty much 50:50, but almost everyone - 81% - wants to see Mueller’s report.

There's a 90% chance that no one, including Congress, will ever see Mueller's report.  It is not public information, and release is subject to the discretion of the Attorney General who was just appointed by....you guessed it...who has already indicated that he will likely not share it.

[HudsonHawk]

I'm sure that I should know something about Investors Business Daily, but I didn't.  However, I hope they give daily investing advice of the same quality to all Trump supporters.

They are a wingnut conspiracy theory outlet.  Nothing to see here. 

[Limey]

There's a 90% chance that no one, including Congress, will ever see Mueller's report.  It is not public information, and release is subject to the discretion of the Attorney General who was just appointed by....you guessed it...who has already indicated that he will likely not share it.

House Democrats claimyhecan subpoena it and/or testimony from Mueller.  They will get the findings out one way or another.

[HudsonHawk]

House Democrats claimyhecan subpoena it and/or testimony from Mueller.  They will get the findings out one way or another.

Trump would certainly fight a subpoena, and if he lost in court claim executive privilege for another go around.  He's got at least 4 to 6 years of court battles before any information gets released.  Who knows what the House will look like in 2025.  Mueller is on record as saying he will not go outside the chain of command and provide any information or testimony to anyone other than the Attorney General.  Don't expect a bombshell during Trump's turn in the White House. 

[Limey]

Trump would certainly fight a subpoena, and if he lost in court claim executive privilege for another go around.  He's got at least 4 to 6 years of court battles before any information gets released.  Who knows what the House will look like in 2025.  Mueller is on record as saying he will not go outside the chain of command and provide any information or testimony to anyone other than the Attorney General.  Don't expect a bombshell during Trump's turn in the White House.

The can subpoena Mueller to testify in person.  I’m not sure how the White House fights that, and they can then choose to release whatever they want. 

[Limey]

More on how it’s not our fault on why our taxes are fucked up.

I am in exactly the same boat as the example couple in the article:   I set my exemptions to 0, and I may well have underwitheld as a result.  Republicans couldn’t organize a piss-up at a brewery. 

[Limey]

FYI, the (apparently former) Trump-supporting lady in the article is getting slaughtered on Twitter for seemingly being ok with the lying, corruption, racism, dead kids in cages and treason, but jumping ship when her taxes went up.  I can see the point.

[Limey]

Maxine Waters is going after Deutschdramat’s records regarding Trump Org business.  I hope she’s wearing protective garments because that is an ocean of nasty shit. 

[jbm]

More "Tales from the Swamp"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/top-trump-appointees-promoted-selling-nuclear-power-plants-to-saudi-arabia-over-objections-from-national-security-officials-house-democratic-report-says/2019/02/19/6a719762-3456-11e9-af5b-b51b7ff322e9_story.html?utm_term=.dc194269cdcd

Basically, Trump associates, including our ex-gov, trying to sell nuke plants over the objections on national security folks in the admin.  Follow the money through the most corrupt landscape in presidential history.

The Cummings report notes that one of the power plant manufacturers that could benefit from a nuclear deal, Westinghouse Electric, is a subsidiary of Brookfield Asset Management, the company that provided financial relief to the family of Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and adviser. Brookfield Asset Management took a 99-year lease on the family’s deeply indebted New York City property at 666 Fifth Avenue.

[chuck]

I see where Senator Warren is now calling her proposal an 'Ultra Millionaire Tax.' Not quite as catchy as I had hoped, but I suppose we're moving in the right direction.

Which, of course, is to SOCIALISM like VENEZUELA!

So be sure to remain mindful of that or those downtrodden billionaires might see their taxes raised to, I don't know, where they were a year ago.

[Limey]

It’s interesting that Warren’s 2% wealth tax is far more lucrative than Cortez’ 70% marginal tax rate.  It’s just that 2% sounds less than 70%.  Of course, I’m not saying that it’s either/or...

[The Spleen]

Speaking of wealth and taxes and douchebags, Bregman squares one up.
Well, I guess that's the other Bregman...

[Limey]

It turns out that much of the appropriated funds that Trump is planning to redirect to his wall under his emergency declaration...has already been spent. 

They’re really bad at this.

[Bench]

It's amazing the different stripes of corruption on display in this administration. Trump's secretary of labor broke federal law in order to cover up for Trump's millionaire serial child molester buddy. 

[Limey]

It's amazing the different stripes of corruption on display in this administration. Trump's secretary of labor broke federal law in order to cover up for Trump's millionaire serial child molester buddy.

How the corruption Trump brought with him spread so easily through the upper eschlons of society is shocking.  It’s like the only thing that was holding back their inner scumbag was lack of permission.  I have read that the Epstein deal may now get set aside and he can be actually prosecuted.  That would be nice. 

The deal is amazing in that it effectively pardons all Epstein’s fellow travelers.  Let’s hope they all get rounded up, including any British royals and any sitting presidents (Trump was a frequent guest at Epstein’s parties and has commented openly about the volume of young girls at those events).

Epstein is a horror.  His lawyers and the prosecutors who made this bargain are forever stained with Epstein’s crimes.  Trump is a collection of every single negative trait possible in a human being.

[Limey]

Cohen has receipts for election fraud and tax fraud.  If nothing else, this is justification to subpoena Trump’s financial records. 

[Jacksonian]

Cohen has receipts for election fraud and tax fraud.  If nothing else, this is justification to subpoena Trump’s financial records.

That confuses me. Wouldn't this have been part of Mueller's work?

[Bench]

That confuses me. Wouldn't this have been part of Mueller's work?

I haven't been following the Cohen testimony, but if the election fraud is Stormy Daniels type campaign finance fraud, I think that would fall outside the purview of Mueller's investigation which is focused on foreign interference in the election.

[jbm]

Yeah, all the election fraud/payoff stuff was transferred from Mueller to SDNY.

[jbm]

Every time I get a chance to listen to Cohen's testimony, it's a Republican raving about the messenger.  If there is one Republican, who actually asks Cohen a substantive question in a real effort at Congressional oversight, it should be front page, top fold material in all the major rags.  Seems as if the entire party is grifters, grovelers and clowns.

[HudsonHawk]

Every time I get a chance to listen to Cohen's testimony, it's a Republican raving about the messenger.  If there is one Republican, who actually asks Cohen a substantive question in a real effort at Congressional oversight, it should be front page, top fold material in all the major rags.  Seems as if the entire party is grifters, grovelers and clowns.

The next time a Republican congressman seeks to do anything other than gorvel Trump's schlong it'll be the first.

[Bench]

Every time I get a chance to listen to Cohen's testimony, it's a Republican raving about the messenger.  If there is one Republican, who actually asks Cohen a substantive question in a real effort at Congressional oversight, it should be front page, top fold material in all the major rags.  Seems as if the entire party is grifters, grovelers and clowns.

What's funny to me is that they are trying to dismiss Cohen as a "convicted liar" when the lie he was convicted for is "Trump did nothing wrong."

[Limey]

Not watching but reading along at the Guardian.  Cohen seems to be at least holding his own against efforts by Republicans to somehow discredit an already discredited man.  One of them even tried the “black friend” (or in this case, “black employee”) defense of the racism accusations, and got bitch slapped by Cohen.

Also, don’t forget that Jim Jordan for years had the locker next to a coach who molested numerous college athletes, and knew nothing about it.  How would that look if he was the one testifying?

[Limey]

What's funny to me is that they are trying to dismiss Cohen as a "convicted liar" when the lie he was convicted for is "Trump did nothing wrong."

Stolen and sprinkled on Twitter like pixie dust.  Stolen pixie dust. 

[Limey]

Cohen just owned the entire Republican side of the committee by telling them, essentially, that everything Trump touches...dies.  He’s still an odious douche, but he’s pantsed the lot of them so far today.  None of them landed a punch and he has them bleeding like poor ol’ ‘Enry Cooper. 

[Jacksonian]

Yeah, all the election fraud/payoff stuff was transferred from Mueller to SDNY.

So there's an active investigation with SDNY?  Or did they not pick it up?

[Limey]

So there's an active investigation with SDNY?  Or did they not pick it up?

Cohen intimates it's active and ongoing.

[jbm]

What's funny to me is that they are trying to dismiss Cohen as a "convicted liar" when the lie he was convicted for is "Trump did nothing wrong."

Also, while making the case that Cohen is a low-life cheat and crook, do any of these Republican interrogators ever wonder why Trump hired him as his personal attorney, and kept him on for over a decade?

[Bench]

Also, while making the case that Cohen is a low-life cheat and crook, do any of these Republican interrogators ever wonder why Trump hired him as his personal attorney, and kept him on for over a decade?

Another apt joke making the rounds is along the lines of "if you think Cohen is sleazy just wait till you hear about his clients!"

[MusicMan]

What's funny to me is that they are trying to dismiss Cohen as a "convicted liar" when the lie he was convicted for is "Trump did nothing wrong."

“Convicted of lying to Congress discredits you for life” is an admirable sentiment for the party bowing and scraping to NRA President Oliver North.


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[Limey]

“Convicted of lying to Congress discredits you for life” is an admirable sentiment for the party bowing and scraping to NRA President Oliver North.

See also Abrams, Elliot.

[Limey]

So Trump has now palled around with North Korea’s murderous dictator for a second time and walked away with his mushroom-headed dick in his tiny hand for a second time.  Meanwhile, Kim has received the recognition of now two summits with the American President, a cessation of military exercises with South Korea - which are both valuable and cheap (cheaper than Trump’s golf trips) - and been absolved of the abuse of a US citizen in a North Korean prison that lead to that man’s very untimely death. 

Art of the Deal my ass. 

[chuck]

So Trump has now palled around with North Korea’s murderous dictator for a second time and walked away with his mushroom-headed dick in his tiny hand for a second time.  Meanwhile, Kim has received the recognition of now two summits with the American President, a cessation of military exercises with South Korea - which are both valuable and cheap (cheaper than Trump’s golf trips) - and been absolved of the abuse of a US citizen in a North Korean prison that lead to that man’s very untimely death.

That's all true enough and, let's face it, worrisome. But do you know what terrifies and outrages me, keeps me up at night? I believe Michael Cohen may well at some point in the future get a book deal.

[geezerdonk]

Undoubtedly, and a reality TV show and several pod casts to boot.

[geezerdonk]

Correct.  While elements of it continue to be proved accurate.

In addition to Cohen's cell phone pinging off towers in Prague, they also have intercepts of Russians talking about Cohen being in Prague.  Here's the full story.

Of course, we're only finding this out now.  I presume that Cohen spilled these beans to Mueller ages ago.

[HudsonHawk]

So Trump has now palled around with North Korea’s murderous dictator for a second time and walked away with his mushroom-headed dick in his tiny hand for a second time.  Meanwhile, Kim has received the recognition of now two summits with the American President, a cessation of military exercises with South Korea - which are both valuable and cheap (cheaper than Trump’s golf trips) - and been absolved of the abuse of a US citizen in a North Korean prison that lead to that man’s very untimely death. 

Art of the Deal my ass.

I guess the good news is, Trump finally got to see Vietnam.

[Tom Servo]

I guess the good news is, Trump finally got to see Vietnam.

https://politics.theonion.com/trump-solemnly-lays-wreath-at-site-where-he-would-have-1832907992

[hostros7]

So Trump has now palled around with North Korea’s murderous dictator for a second time and walked away with his mushroom-headed dick in his tiny hand for a second time.  Meanwhile, Kim has received the recognition of now two summits with the American President, a cessation of military exercises with South Korea - which are both valuable and cheap (cheaper than Trump’s golf trips) - and been absolved of the abuse of a US citizen in a North Korean prison that lead to that man’s very untimely death. 

Art of the Deal my ass.

The clip of him grinning ear to ear and waving a tiny North Korean flag with childlike enthusiasm was such a clown show. If you’re going to negotiate with a murderous villain of a dictator, at least try to avoid looking like you’re on vacation at Disney world and your parents handed you a fresh pair of Mickey Mouse ears only minutes before. 

[chuck]

It would have been really special if Kim had let Donny engineer his train around for a while. Make believe engineer, I mean. Maybe give him a nice hat and one of those heavy coal aprons. Both would probably go over big in swing states at home, now that I think about it, even if they do have the Nork flag on them. Of course a lot of the voters would probably just mistake it for Ohio.

[austro]

The clip of him grinning ear to ear and waving a tiny North Korean flag with childlike enthusiasm was such a clown show.

But Obama nodded to a another head of state once! And wore a tan suit!

[MusicMan]

Via Twitter:
Sean Hannity to Trump in tonight’s interview, on Michael Cohen and the hush-money payments: “I can tell you personally, he said to me at least a dozen times, that he made the decision on the payments and he didn’t tell you.”


It takes a special kind of stupid to not only talk yourself into a subpoena but ALSO inadvertently waive attorney-client privilege.



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[chuck]

It's really disappointing that people like Hannity insist in prolonging this spectacle. I was really hoping we could turn the page on this shameless, pointless political theater and go back to the nation's important matters like Benghazi and uranium.

[Limey]

https://politics.theonion.com/trump-solemnly-lays-wreath-at-site-where-he-would-have-1832907992

Died?   I think “fragged” would be the appropriate description. 

[Limey]

Via Twitter:
Sean Hannity to Trump in tonight’s interview, on Michael Cohen and the hush-money payments: “I can tell you personally, he said to me at least a dozen times, that he made the decision on the payments and he didn’t tell you.”


It takes a special kind of stupid to not only talk yourself into a subpoena but ALSO inadvertently waive attorney-client privilege.

The day that Hannity, Don Jr, Kushner and Ivanka get subpoenaed...I’ll be in my bunk. 

[Limey]

Chairman Elijah Cummings demands documents on security clearances:

“Over the past five weeks, the White House has stalled, equivocated, and failed to produce a single document or witness to the committee...I am now writing a final time to request your voluntary cooperation."

[Limey]

I follow Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX) on Twitter.  I am disappointed to say that he is a relentless shill and apologist for Trump.

[chuck]

I follow Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX) on Twitter.  I am disappointed to say that he is a relentless shill and apologist for Trump.

I’m as shocked as you are.

Well, keep an eye on him for us.

[austro]

I follow Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX) on Twitter.  I am disappointed to say that he is a relentless shill and apologist for Trump.

It's incredibly disillusioning to see that morons like this can get elected.

[Navin R Johnson]

I follow Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX) on Twitter.  I am disappointed to say that he is a relentless shill and apologist for Trump.

He is my rep.  He is nothing but an AM radio conspiracy loon. Gym Jordan with an eye patch. After the SNL shit he seemed like a somewhat genuine  guy, but he is a fucking clown.  Can’t wait to vote that cretin out of office. What a fucking phony

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I follow Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX) on Twitter.  I am disappointed to say that he is a relentless shill and apologist for Trump.

One might say he has chosen to turn a blind eye towards Trump.

[HudsonHawk]

He is my rep.  He is nothing but an AM radio conspiracy loon. Gym Jordan with an eye patch. After the SNL shit he seemed like a somewhat genuine  guy, but he is a fucking clown.  Can’t wait to vote that cretin out of office. What a fucking phony

He is my rep too. He seemed like a fairly measured guy during the campaign. I was not that disappointed thinking "hey, they could have elected someone a lot crazier than this guy". I guess not.

[moriartp]

Should’ve nominated Kathaleen Wall smdh

[MusicMan]

He is my rep too. He seemed like a fairly measured guy during the campaign. I was not that disappointed thinking "hey, they could have elected someone a lot crazier than this guy". I guess not.

A friend of mine lost the primary to him. I was fine with it until I went through the process you describe, to the letter.


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[Limey]

Happy Monday everybody.   You get a subpoena!  You get a subpoena!  You get a subpoena!  Everybody gets a subpoena!

On Monday the House judiciary committee, which is on the front line of renewed Democratic efforts to hold the president accountable, will issue demands for documents from more than 60 people and entities. The targets include the president’s son Donald Trump Jr and the chief finance officer of Trump’s business empire, Allen Weisselberg, both of whom have been implicated in payments made to an adult film actor on Trump’s behalf in violation of campaign finance laws.

Other possible targets are John Kelly, Trump’s former chief of staff, and former White House counsel Don McGahn.

The Democratic document grab was revealed on Sunday by Jerrold Nadler, the judiciary committee’s chairman. He told ABC’s This Week the request for information would be going out to the White House, the justice department and other agencies and individuals.

An updated list of recipients includes Jarvanka and Eric. 

[Limey]

The list is out, and it’s as long as it is beautiful.  No Ivanka, but everyone else you’d expect and a few you’d forgotten about (Steve Bannon, anyone?).

Oh, and of course, Matthew Calimari.  Because why the fuck not. 

[jbm]

NRA.  Nice.

The list should include Devin Nunes.  Might be against the rules, but any obstruction investigation needs to include him.

[jbm]

"We're not turning stuff over," says the White House to Dems.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/05/jared-kushner-security-clearance-1204984

Privacy concerns, of course. Apparently, Jared's privacy is more important than overseeing national security concerns.

[Limey]

The depths of the depraved entanglements of Trump know no bounds.  The Miami Herald reports that Trump watched Kraft’s Patriots win the SuperBowl alongside the founder of the spa where Kraft was busted for getting a happy ending.  I shit you not. 

As wealth gets concentrated into fewer and fewer pockets, they are becoming like medieval royal dynasties, where they’re all connected by family ties, shared bodily fluids or, often, both. 

I got next with the Lysol...🤮

[jbm]

"Founder" is a rather glorified term for that business

[BudGirl]

The depths of the depraved entanglements of Trump know no bounds.  The Miami Herald reports that Trump watched Kraft’s Patriots win the SuperBowl alongside the founder of the spa where Kraft was busted for getting a happy ending.  I shit you not. 

As wealth gets concentrated into fewer and fewer pockets, they are becoming like medieval royal dynasties, where they’re all connected by family ties, shared bodily fluids or, often, both. 

I got next with the Lysol...🤮

Surely everyone knew that Trump was the other associate or whatever that guy was described as when the report first broke.    I cannot believe this is a shock to anyone.

[HudsonHawk]

"Founder" is a rather glorified term for that business

Judge:  "Your client is accused of being a drug dealer and running a crack house"

Lawyer: "He's an entrepreneur who founded a pharmaceutical laboratory"

Judge: "Oh, well when you put it THAT way..."

[Limey]

Surely everyone knew that Trump was the other associate or whatever that guy was described as when the report first broke.    I cannot believe this is a shock to anyone.

The lady who co-founded massage parlors that are staffed with trafficked women turns out to be a doyen of right wing gatherings, and the host of events for Chinese business folk at Mar-a-Lago where they were promised they would get to...erm...press the flesh with the President.

I know all right wing rhetoric is projection, but I had no idea that this principle extended even to PizzaGate.

[Nate Colbert]

The lady who co-founded massage parlors that are staffed with trafficked women turns out to be a doyen of right wing gatherings, and the host of events for Chinese business folk at Mar-a-Lago where they were promised they would get to...erm...press the flesh with the President.

I know all right wing rhetoric is projection, but I had no idea that this principle extended even to PizzaGate.

The fact that trafficked women were involved is unspeakably horrible enough but unless you have some evidence that they were also underage then I would suggest you go easy on the Pizzagate references.

[Limey]

The fact that trafficked women were involved is unspeakably horrible enough but unless you have some evidence that they were also underage then I would suggest you go easy on the Pizzagate references.

Really?   Pizzagate was made up nonsense that ended up with someone walking into the establishment with guns demanding answers.  Luckily no one was shot.  There weren’t any actual kids involved.  There wasn’t even a fucking basement. 

Madame Massage Parlour ran a bunch of establishments, at least one of which was staffed with trafficked women.  Do you think it’s a coincidence that of all the rub ‘n’ tug shops in all the world Bob Kraft walked into that one?

This whole thing is sleazy as fuck and also - like everything else in the Trump administration- potentially a gargantuan security risk.   I think the fake child slaves would be ok with some outrage about that. 

[Nate Colbert]

Really?   Pizzagate was made up nonsense that ended up with someone walking into the establishment with guns demanding answers.  Luckily no one was shot.  There weren’t any actual kids involved.  There wasn’t even a fucking basement. 

Madame Massage Parlour ran a bunch of establishments, at least one of which was staffed with trafficked women.  Do you think it’s a coincidence that of all the rub ‘n’ tug shops in all the world Bob Kraft walked into that one?

This whole thing is sleazy as fuck and also - like everything else in the Trump administration- potentially a gargantuan security risk.   I think the fake child slaves would be ok with some outrage about that.

I think there's a failure to communicate here because you misunderstand what the word projection means.

I don't need a lecture from you about how sleazy and corrupt this whole Cindy Yang/Bob Kraft/Trump thing is. That's obvious on its face.

[chuck]

Pizzagate was promulgated by bad actors in order to deflect attention from the Epstein cesspool where, among other things, Trump was credibly accused of raping an underaged girl.

It’s unclear to me that the word projection is misapplied here whether it turns out that there were underaged women working at the Florida jack-o-rama or not.

[Limey]

I think there's a failure to communicate here because you misunderstand what the word projection means.

I don't need a lecture from you about how sleazy and corrupt this whole Cindy Yang/Bob Kraft/Trump thing is. That's obvious on its face.

Projection, being that they accuse others of what they, themselves are doing.  No, there is no reportage on the age of the women at the parlors, but running sex slaves for an elite cabal is exactly what pizza gate...and this latest shower-requiring episode...are about.  Except this episode rolls in a terrifying sub-plot of having the President on down compromised now by China as well as Russia.

[Navin R Johnson]

The biggest difference between pizzagate and Orchids of Asia is, one is pure foxnews far right fan fiction (consumed and targeted to the most gullible rubes in the count) the other is real.

[Limey]

The biggest difference between pizzagate and Orchids of Asia is, one is pure foxnews far right fan fiction (consumed and targeted to the most gullible rubes in the count) the other is real.

The point being that, if you wonder where they dream up this shit, it’s because it’s what they’re actually doing. 

[Craig]

Pizzagate was promulgated by bad actors in order to deflect attention from the Epstein cesspool where, among other things, Trump was credibly accused of raping an underaged girl.

It’s unclear to me that the word projection is misapplied here whether it turns out that there were underaged women working at the Florida jack-o-rama or not.

It's confusing because there are two separate sex slave/prostitution investigations in Florida, but they intersect at Mar-A-Lago. There's the Epstein case, which included minors who were working at Mar-A-Lago being recruited into Epstein's pedo ring.

And now there's the Chinese madam running the rub-and-tug chain, also allegedly with sex slaves, who comes and goes from Mar-A-Lago like she owns the place, and takes selfies with every Republican who shows up.

[Limey]

It's confusing because there are two separate sex slave/prostitution investigations in Florida, but they intersect at Mar-A-Lago. There's the Epstein case, which included minors who were working at Mar-A-Lago being recruited into Epstein's pedo ring.

And now there's the Chinese madam running the rub-and-tug chain, also allegedly with sex slaves, who comes and goes from Mar-A-Lago like she owns the place, and takes selfies with every Republican who shows up.

Exactly.  And as we're still batting 1.000 on projection, it's terrifying to think of all the things of which Obama and Clinton were accused, because that is exactly what's going on behind closed doors on the right (or, at least, they're thinking about it).

[Limey]

So, this whole Boeing thing.  It turns out to be a confluence of numerous tributaries of shit, running together into the swamp. 

The Max 8 flies very differently to other 737 models so, when Boeing was pushing it out to its airline customers, it had to tweak the autopilot settings to fake its handling to be like that of its predecessors.  That way airlines, otherwise reluctant to invest in the new model because of pilot retraining time and expense, could roll it out (no pun intended) quickly, easily and cheaply.  But they didn’t tell pilots about the new override parameters and since day 1 this plane has been trying to crash itself against the wishes of the pilots.  This has been happening fleet-wide, worldwide; we’re lucky that it’s been only the two crashes thus far. 

So, the world knows this plane is inherently unsafe at any altitude and it has been grounded or denied even overfly permission pretty much everywhere.  Everywhere except the US, that is.  Why is that?

Could it be that, after Trump nominated his own pilot to run the FAA (a pilot who couldn’t even keep the one plane he was flying for Trump properly registered) and his nomination went down like a...   Trump hasn’t bothered to propose anyone else for the job.  The top three positions at the FAA are prefaced with “acting”.  Maybe this is the problem, but likely not as any Trump nominee is going to be worse than any random civil servant. 

The Transportation secretary has the power to ground the Max 8s, but that’s Elaine Chao, wife of SwampKing and enemy of democracy Mitch McConnell, so there’s no way she is going to buck the White House. 

Oh yeah, the White House.  Boeing’s CEO has frequented Swamp-a-Lago numerous times and donated $1 million to Trump’s under-investigation inaugural committee.  Moreover, Trump spoke with him on the phone this very morning where Boeing’s guy gave a strong denial against accusations that he screwed with the election tortured Otto Warmbier to death hacked up Kashoggi there is anything wrong with the Max 8. 

So the Max 8 still flies over the US, dipping it’s nose when it feels like it.  Meanwhile, despite the denials that there’s a problem, Boeing is rolling out a software patch to fix the non-problem.  They have been working on it since the first Max 8 crash, but it was delayed by about a month due to the US government shut down.

If you count back a month from the likely roll out date of the patch, it would have preceded the Ethiopia crash.

Those people died because of Trump, Boeing and shitty US politics.  I hope they’re the last, but I fear they won’t be. 

PS Any US airline still running unpatched Max 8s is now culpable in any deaths resulting therefrom.

[HudsonHawk]

Who knew heavier than air flight was so complex?

And Trump has assured me that he has done more for passenger safety than any President in history.  Why, there no commercial airline fatalities in the US last year.  So put that in your crack pipe and smoke it.

[Limey]

Manafort gets a proper dressing down at his sentencing hearing, where the judge torched all his “I’m sorry I got caught” excuses.  She gave him decent sentences for the two verdicts; one concurrent, one consecutive. 

In all, Manafort’s going to federal prison for 7 1/2 years.  There is no parole from federal prison. 

[Limey]

BOOM!  NY just indicted Manafort of state charges.  I guess they were waiting for the federal desk to be over, but I’m sure this has been cocked and ready since EDVA let him slide on the bulk of the federal crimes. 

[HudsonHawk]

So, this whole Boeing thing.  It turns out to be a confluence of numerous tributaries of shit, running together into the swamp. 

The Max 8 flies very differently to other 737 models so, when Boeing was pushing it out to its airline customers, it had to tweak the autopilot settings to fake its handling to be like that of its predecessors.  That way airlines, otherwise reluctant to invest in the new model because of pilot retraining time and expense, could roll it out (no pun intended) quickly, easily and cheaply.  But they didn’t tell pilots about the new override parameters and since day 1 this plane has been trying to crash itself against the wishes of the pilots.  This has been happening fleet-wide, worldwide; we’re lucky that it’s been only the two crashes thus far. 

So, the world knows this plane is inherently unsafe at any altitude and it has been grounded or denied even overfly permission pretty much everywhere.  Everywhere except the US, that is.  Why is that?

Could it be that, after Trump nominated his own pilot to run the FAA (a pilot who couldn’t even keep the one plane he was flying for Trump properly registered) and his nomination went down like a...   Trump hasn’t bothered to propose anyone else for the job.  The top three positions at the FAA are prefaced with “acting”.  Maybe this is the problem, but likely not as any Trump nominee is going to be worse than any random civil servant. 

The Transportation secretary has the power to ground the Max 8s, but that’s Elaine Chao, wife of SwampKing and enemy of democracy Mitch McConnell, so there’s no way she is going to buck the White House. 

Oh yeah, the White House.  Boeing’s CEO has frequented Swamp-a-Lago numerous times and donated $1 million to Trump’s under-investigation inaugural committee.  Moreover, Trump spoke with him on the phone this very morning where Boeing’s guy gave a strong denial against accusations that he screwed with the election tortured Otto Warmbier to death hacked up Kashoggi there is anything wrong with the Max 8. 

So the Max 8 still flies over the US, dipping it’s nose when it feels like it.  Meanwhile, despite the denials that there’s a problem, Boeing is rolling out a software patch to fix the non-problem.  They have been working on it since the first Max 8 crash, but it was delayed by about a month due to the US government shut down.

If you count back a month from the likely roll out date of the patch, it would have preceded the Ethiopia crash.

Those people died because of Trump, Boeing and shitty US politics.  I hope they’re the last, but I fear they won’t be. 

PS Any US airline still running unpatched Max 8s is now culpable in any deaths resulting therefrom.

Trump just issued an emergency executive order grounding the Max 8 immediately.  No word on whether or not he's still flummoxed by aerodynamics or how a thermos works.

[BizidyDizidy]

Trump just issued an emergency executive order grounding the Max 8 immediately.  No word on whether or not he's still flummoxed by aerodynamics or how a thermos works.

How do it know?

[Limey]

Beto just announced his candidacy for (vice) President. 

[jbm]

Agree on the VP implication.  I like Beto, but IMO, he needs to step up his game to have a real chance at the top spot.

[Limey]

Agree on the VP implication.  I like Beto, but IMO, he needs to step up his game to have a real chance at the top spot.

He’s not ready for the big chair, but he’d add to the ticket whom ever is at the top of it. 

A Beto vs. Pence debate would be must see tv. 

[HudsonHawk]

Trump announced that Beto's candidacy is illegitimate because 1) he doesn't have experience and 2) he lost his last election bid and once you lose an election, that should be it, you shouldn't get to run for office again.  He didn't elaborate on his own failed candidacies and lack of success, but he's already denied he ran for President in 2000.  So there's that.

[Limey]

Trump announced that Beto's candidacy is illegitimate because 1) he doesn't have experience and 2) he lost his last election bid and once you lose an election, that should be it, you shouldn't get to run for office again.  He didn't elaborate on his own failed candidacies and lack of success, but he's already denied he ran for President in 2000.  So there's that.

In an interview this morning, Trump speculated that Beto is “crazy” because he moves his hands too much while speaking.   This is real. 

Projection.  All of it. 

[Limey]

Manafort’s lawyer - who has spent two trials defending Trump from accusations of colluding with Russia while his client got sent up the river for over 7 years - has had bar association complaints filed against him in multiple states. 

Everything Trump touches, dies. 

[geezerdonk]

Manafort’s lawyer has had bar association complaints filed against him in multiple states. 

Which one?

[jbm]

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2019/03/14/trump-issues-warning-to-opponents-it-would-be-very-bad-if-his-military-police-and-biker-supporters-got-tough.html

I understand some of the reticence to move towards impeachment, but this shit is unacceptable in the US.  "Threatening democracy and democratic institutions" should be the first article of impeachment.   

[Limey]

In case you were wondering what put Trump into such a Twitter tailspin this weekend, I give you The NY Times:

A Mar-a-Lago Weekend and an Act of God: Trump’s History With Deutsche Bank

Investigators are elbow-deep in Trump’s dealings with DoucheBank. 

[jbm]

In case you were wondering what put Trump into such a Twitter tailspin this weekend, I give you The NY Times:

A Mar-a-Lago Weekend and an Act of God: Trump’s History With Deutsche Bank

Investigators are elbow-deep in Trump’s dealings with DoucheBank.

To me, this is emblematic of the broader investigation in that it's hard to imagine that with all the smoke, there is no underlying fire. 

No other business that I can think of intentionally seeks out or willingly accepts big losses, and that is what you have to believe here if there is no underlying corruption.  You have to believe that each loan officer and executive signing off said to themselves: "I know these documents are fraudulent, I know he will likely default on the loan and he might even sue us, but hey, he's Donald Trump and all that will ultimately be good for the company."

[HudsonHawk]

To me, this is emblematic of the broader investigation in that it's hard to imagine that with all the smoke, there is no underlying fire. 

One thing's for sure though; the public perception is turning with every day that Mueller doesn't release something.  The majority of Americans now believe it *is* a witch hunt, simply because it's been two years, and squat.  It'd better be a fucking historic bombshell, or this investigation secures Trump 2020. 

[Limey]

One thing's for sure though; the public perception is turning with every day that Mueller doesn't release something.  The majority of Americans now believe it *is* a witch hunt, simply because it's been two years, and squat.  It'd better be a fucking historic bombshell, or this investigation secures Trump 2020.

For the record, that was a badly framed question in that it asked, paraphrasing, "do you think it's a witch hunt and do you think Trump has been investigated more than any other president?"  To that question, I would answer "yes".  The rest of the poll showed strong interest in seeing the Mueller report.  People aren't turning on it, pollsters just ask stupid questions.

[geezerdonk]

Manafort’s lawyer - who has spent two trials defending Trump from accusations of colluding with Russia while his client got sent up the river for over 7 years - has had bar association complaints filed against him in multiple states. 

Everything Trump touches, dies.

What is the lawyer's name? Which bar associations were the complaints filed with? What are the nature of the complaints; that is what is the lawyer accused of? Did any of the complaints result in disciplinary action against the lawyer? Typically, complaints are not made public unless disciplinary action is initiated so what is the source of this information?

[jbm]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/us/politics/devin-nunes-twitter-lawsuit.html

Is this what "snowflake" means?

Though absorbing criticism comes with the territory for politicians, the complaint described the objectionable tweets from the three users as something “that no human being should ever have to bear and suffer in their whole life.”

To make his case, he cited a wide variety of tweets that included accusations of criminal misconduct, crude jokes at his expense and relatively banal criticism. The complaint says the tweets “falsely stated” that Mr. Nunes had brought “shame” to his family and that he was voted “Most Likely to Commit Treason” in high school, and that one of them included a cartoon image of a sexual act with Mr. Trump and President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia. The complaint lists dozens of other tweets he found insulting.

[Lefty]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/us/politics/devin-nunes-twitter-lawsuit.html

Is this what "snowflake" means?

It wasn't a sexual act, it was a "diagram of the relationship" between Putin, Trump and Nunes in Human Centipede form.

And Devin Nunes' Cow's twitter account had some good stuff on it last night.

[Nate Colbert]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/19/us/politics/devin-nunes-twitter-lawsuit.html

Is this what "snowflake" means?

It also sounds like the textbook definition of a nuisance lawsuit the type of which R's have always railed against.

[gundy315]

It also sounds like the textbook definition of a nuisance lawsuit the type of which R's have always railed against.

The same type of lawsuit that Trump has, for decades, used to bully his former business associates, contractors, detractors, etc.  Nunes is just following his master's lead.

[Lefty]

It also sounds like the textbook definition of a nuisance lawsuit the type of which R's have always railed against.

Nunes co-sponsored the "Discouraging Frivolous Lawsuits Act" in 2017

[Nate Colbert]

Nunes co-sponsored the "Discouraging Frivolous Lawsuits Act" in 2017

Ha!

[HudsonHawk]

For the record, that was a badly framed question in that it asked, paraphrasing, "do you think it's a witch hunt and do you think Trump has been investigated more than any other president?"  To that question, I would answer "yes".  The rest of the poll showed strong interest in seeing the Mueller report.  People aren't turning on it, pollsters just ask stupid questions.

Maybe.  But I think there's growing frustration, and people want to see some results, one way or another.  The longer it goes with no information, the more and more people will start to believe there's nothing there, irrespective of the poll questions.  That's just human nature. 

[chuck]

Maybe.  But I think there's growing frustration, and people want to see some results, one way or another.  The longer it goes with no information, the more and more people will start to believe there's nothing there, irrespective of the poll questions.  That's just human nature.

That is certainly a danger, and it's also eminently possible that the report, whenever it's issued, will not contain any major revelations that aren't already known by anyone who follows this closely. Of course, it's also possible that the AG will elect not to make the report public.

That's why I think it's a good political move to advance impeachment proceedings immediately in order to get everything out in the open. Will the senate vote to impeach? Fuck no. I don't think that matters.

My thought is that the various sealed indictments are going to be very revealing and that the report eventually will advance the pursuit of truth and justice considerably. But to rely on it in any way as a political fulcrum is fucking idiotic. So of course that appears to be what a lot of the Democrats are content to do.

[Limey]

What is the lawyer's name? Which bar associations were the complaints filed with? What are the nature of the complaints; that is what is the lawyer accused of? Did any of the complaints result in disciplinary action against the lawyer? Typically, complaints are not made public unless disciplinary action is initiated so what is the source of this information?

Dude’s name is Kevin Downing, the statement about having filed a bar complaint - in NY and LA - came from a purported lawyer on Twitter. 

[Limey]

My thought is that the various sealed indictments are going to be very revealing and that the report eventually will advance the pursuit of truth and justice considerably. But to rely on it in any way as a political fulcrum is fucking idiotic. So of course that appears to be what a lot of the Democrats are content to do.

Pelosi is a smart operator.  The freak out over her recent dismissal of impeachment was a misinterpretation, IMHO, as she listed off - as prerequisites - a number of things that are already in the record plus one that isn’t:  Republican support.  She knows a lot of what is coming, and I think she expects that (at least some) Republicans will have to get on board when the whole criminal enterprise is laid bare for the public. 

Meanwhile! Swalwell - House intel member - says he believes there are sealed indictments against Trump. 

[Limey]

Devin Nunes has just under 400k Twiiter followers.  He sued Twitter for $250 million for allowing people such as “Devin Nunes’ Cow” to take the piss out of him.  Devin Nunes’ Cow had 1200 followers before the lawsuit; it now has over 400,000 (more than Nunes himself). 

After his midnight cab ride shenanigans, it’s very clear that this fucktard is the king of the self-own. 

[Limey]

ETA: For a world of “fail” gifs, check out #ThisIsDevinNunes.
🤣🤣🤣🤣

[HudsonHawk]

Mueller report done.  Submitted to AG.  We'll see

[Limey]

Mueller report done.  Submitted to AG.  We'll see

This explains the weekend meltdown and all the negative Mueller stories from the White House and Fox News. 

[jbm]

This played out perfectly for Trump.  Releasing the conclusions, without the underlying evidence, has allowed the press and Republicans to craft a narrative that nothing happened at all.  Complete exoneration!!!! 

I want to see all the evidence before I cut him some slack on collusion.  It's quite possible that there might have been some collusion-like activities or some seriously stinky shit, but shit that doesn't rise to a crime.  It's also possible that most of the dots can be connected, but the final ones can't be due to obstruction or Manafort holding tight. 

The no-obstruction claim by Barr appears to be his personal call, not the conclusion of Mueller.  Of course, I want to see the underlying evidence on collusion before I get worked up about the obstruction stuff.  If there was truly no unseemly stuff to hide, then Congress should leave the obstruction stuff alone, IMO.

Anyways, if they are going to crow about complete exoneration, than they logically have to release everything, just to justify that conclusion.  Otherwise, it looks like a rigged system.

[HudsonHawk]

This played out perfectly for Trump.  Releasing the conclusions, without the underlying evidence, has allowed the press and Republicans to craft a narrative that nothing happened at all.  Complete exoneration!!!! 

I want to see all the evidence before I cut him some slack on collusion.  It's quite possible that there might have been some collusion-like activities or some seriously stinky shit, but shit that doesn't rise to a crime.  It's also possible that most of the dots can be connected, but the final ones can't be due to obstruction or Manafort holding tight. 

The no-obstruction claim by Barr appears to be his personal call, not the conclusion of Mueller.  Of course, I want to see the underlying evidence on collusion before I get worked up about the obstruction stuff.  If there was truly no unseemly stuff to hide, then Congress should leave the obstruction stuff alone, IMO.

Anyways, if they are going to crow about complete exoneration, than they logically have to release everything, just to justify that conclusion.  Otherwise, it looks like a rigged system.

Look, Trump said, in writing, that he didn’t do it. What more proof could you possibly want?

[jwhudson]

I honestly do not know which is worse.  Thinking a candidate for President may have enlisted a foreign adversary for assistance, or having to listen the "Cheeto" gloat. 

[Limey]

The fact that Barr stretched the English language to breaking point to try to say that Trump is innocent - and couldn’t - is all the reason we need to see the whole report.  I’m sure Barr has a hearing invitation coming his way, where his parsing skills will be stress-tested. 

Meanwhile, at the risk of being pilloried for engaging in whataboutery, imagine if Comey had stood in front of Congress and said that he could not exonerate Clinton of all wrongdoing regarding her emails, but Eric Holder says he’s not going to press charges.  I’m sure Chaffetz and Nunes and Issa would’ve taken that as read and gone on about their regular business. 

[Limey]

Also, let’s not forget that Trump lives in the same orbit as mobsters (real estate), talks like one and clearly thinks of himself as one.  If he learned one thing from them, it would be how to employ cut outs and to have your family run the business.   If he learned two, two things...I’ll come in again. 

Seriously, collusion was achieved through Manafort and Stone and Page and Papadopolous and Prince and Kushner working as cut outs.  This is why Trump isn’t charged but not exonerated.  It’s why RICO statutes exist. 

[Limey]

The fact that Barr stretched the English language to breaking point to try to say that Trump is innocent - and couldn’t - is all the reason we need to see the whole report.  I’m sure Barr has a hearing invitation coming his way, where his parsing skills will be stress-tested. 

So after a triumphant weekend for TrumpWorld, the real world started to come to the realization the Barr memo is not the Mueller report - now known to be over 300 pages not including the grand jury testimony and other appendices.  The questions came harder and harder until, on Friday, Barr completely walked back his memo. 

While Barr is working hard to redact everything he can from the actual report, forces are aligning against him that may make impossible for him to keep the unredacted report out of the hands of Congress (at least).  Faced with that, he could not let his “summary” stand, which could well mean that the report is far more damning than he tried to let us believe. 

It turns out that the release of the report wasn’t the end, or even the beginning of the end.  It is just the end of the beginning. 

[Limey]

Jerry Nadler is prepping a subpoena for the full, unredacted Mueller report.  Queue the slow, inexorable march towards a 5-4 SCOTUS decision in Trump’s favor. 

[jbm]

Jerry Nadler is prepping a subpoena for the full, unredacted Mueller report.  Queue the slow, inexorable march towards a 5-4 SCOTUS decision in Trump’s favor.

Good for them.  They shouldn't trust Barr or any of the Republicans.  It is not beyond them, in fact it is usually their MO, to play dirty, so removing all the bad shit, under whatever pretext is sadly within their wheelhouse.

Seriously, if you're completely exonerated, release the whole fucking thing, at least to Congress.  They can cut out the Grand Jury and classified stuff for the public.

[Bench]

Meanwhile, a whistblower informed the house oversight committee that the white house has overturned security clearance denials for 25 people who were initially denied security clearances for reasons such as conflict-of-interest and foreign influences. The whistleblower is an 18 year veteran of the security clearance process who has served both republican and democratic administrations, recognizing what she perceives to be a threat to national security after her concerns fell on deaf ears within the administration:

Newbold said she raised her concerns up the chain of command in the White House to no avail. Instead, she said, the White House retaliated, suspending her in January for 14 days without pay for not following a new policy requiring that documents be scanned as separate PDF files rather than one single PDF file.

[Limey]

Meanwhile, a whistblower informed the house oversight committee that the white house has overturned security clearance denials for 25 people who were initially denied security clearances for reasons such as conflict-of-interest and foreign influences. The whistleblower is an 18 year veteran of the security clearance process who has served both republican and democratic administrations, recognizing what she perceives to be a threat to national security after her concerns fell on deaf ears within the administration:

Newbold said she raised her concerns up the chain of command in the White House to no avail. Instead, she said, the White House retaliated, suspending her in January for 14 days without pay for not following a new policy requiring that documents be scanned as separate PDF files rather than one single PDF file.

Just waIt until Fox News outs and doxes her.  Brave lady. 

ETA:  from the indefatigable Natasha Bertrand:  concerns included  “foreign influence, conflicts of interest, concerning personal conduct, financial problems, drug use, and criminal conduct.”

And that’s just Trump!

[Limey]

Good for them.  They shouldn't trust Barr or any of the Republicans.  It is not beyond them, in fact it is usually their MO, to play dirty, so removing all the bad shit, under whatever pretext is sadly within their wheelhouse.

Seriously, if you're completely exonerated, release the whole fucking thing, at least to Congress.  They can cut out the Grand Jury and classified stuff for the public.

The thing with this administration is that they do everything in public, over time, so the public doesn’t feel the temperature of the water rising.  Any number of Trump’s tweets - if discovered by the press or investigators as the subject of a private email or phone call - would cause outrage.  But because it’s on Twitter, we all eye roll and move on.  Nixon fired his way to Bork to fire the SC in one night; Trump fired Yates and Comey and McCabe and Sessions over the span of two years, so we don’t see it as what it is: a slow-moving Saturday Night Massacre.

Barr is Bork with less crazy hair. 

[chuck]

Instead, she said, the White House retaliated, suspending her in January for 14 days without pay for not following a new policy requiring that documents be scanned as separate PDF files rather than one single PDF file.

We're putting cover sheets on the PDF reports now, you know.

[MRaup]

We're putting cover sheets on the PDF reports now, you know.

Did you not get the memo?

[MusicMan]

Did you not get the memo?

Yeaaaaaah, if you just approve the security clearances for the felons, that’d be great.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Limey]

Yeaaaaaah, if you just approve the security clearances for the felons, that’d be great.

I'm gonna need you to go ahead and come in tomorrow. So if you could be here at around....9 that'd be great.  Ahhhh, I almost forgot... I'm also going to need you to go ahead and come in on Sunday, too. We, uhhh, lost some people this week (to jail) and we sorta need to play catch-up. Mmmmmkay? Thaaaaaanks.

[Limey]

But if you want to see the kind of catastrophe that can be invited by making fundamental policy decisions based on a simple majority, we have to look across the pond at Brexit.  It seems ever more likely that Britain has set a course towards a cliff, jammed a cement block on the gas pedal, tied off the steering wheel and then locked itself inside.  It was an entirely political decision to hold the vote - PM Cameron using it to maintain support for him in the job - but then it was taken so casually that they didn't even bother to set the same threshold to get out as they had to get in (60% IIRC).

Brexit...bloody hell!  3 days into a 14-day extension, parliament held a series of "indicative votes" on 4 Brexit-smoothing proposals, and each went down in flames.  They have already voted down the "hard Brexit" option of just crashing out without any agreements in place, but that's exactly what will happen in 11 days unless some sanity prevails.  Alas, sanity is the one thing that is completely missing from the whole issue.  This is some epic shit.

Brexit came about because of a confluence of effluence from (in no particular order) Rupert Murdoch, Russia, racism sanitized as nationalism and weak, self-serving politicians.  We have all of the exact same issues here, with a giant helping of corruption dolloped on top.  When Trump closed the border crossing near San Diego for a few hours recently, aside from the riot hoses and tear gas that were illegally deployed over the fence by CBP, the US lost about $5mm in trade.  One crossing...for a few hours.

Closing the border to any one of the three Mexicos* won't be as gargantuan a self-own as Brexit, but it will cost the US billions and severely hurt people on both sides of the border.

* This is real.

[jbm]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/woman-with-chinese-passports-malware-arrested-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-resort/2019/04/02/3399e426-5583-11e9-814f-e2f46684196e_story.html?utm_term=.e7019f514295

After Zhang was stopped and questioned, a search of her belongings turned up four cell phones, a laptop, a hard drive, and a thumb drive which contained “malicious malware,” according to the criminal complaint. The document says she told Secret Service agents that a Chinese friend instructed her to travel from Shanghai to the president’s Florida resort and make contact with a member of Trump’s family.

I have no idea if this amounts to anything at all, but these bumbling idiots have no peer.  Almost all of Trump's connections are stupid: his children, his staff (both White House and campaign), his attorneys, even the foreign agents he mixes with.  In fact, I can only think of two who didn't fit the mold: Rex and Haley, and they both quickly bailed. 

[Limey]

I have no idea if this amounts to anything at all, but these bumbling idiots have no peer.  Almost all of Trump's connections are stupid: his children, his staff (both White House and campaign), his attorneys, even the foreign agents he mixes with.  In fact, I can only think of two who didn't fit the mold: Rex and Haley, and they both quickly bailed.

Well Haley is still cheerleading Trump a little, so she's not completely out.

Meanwhile, this lady is clearly a false-flag plant by the Trump administration to cover up for the actual major security breach that is ongoing ever since Trump opened a link in a text to his unsecured, ancient Android phone labeled "Boobs".

[Limey]

Trump gave a critique of the Mueller report in off the cuff remarks today, which is weird because he hasn't seen what's in it...

Weirder, he tried on multiple occasions to say the word "origins" and it came out "oranges".  He knew he was saying it wrong because each time he clarified the remark by saying "the start" or "the beginnings", but he kept coming back to it, trying to say it, and have it come out "oranges" every time.  He also talked wistfully about the lovely place in Germany where his father was born*.

* Fred Trump was born in New York.

I don't know if he challenged the number of states; I didn't see the whole press spray.

[chuck]

Well, at least HE loves the Apple mouse.

[Limey]

Well, at least HE loves the Apple mouse.

Better than the salmon mousse.

[Limey]

Tonight, Trump stated that the noise from windmills causes cancer. 

Whew!  He found his marble. 

[Mr. Happy]

Well. Well. Well. I just wanted to check in now that Mueller's report was a bust, and it appears that the wheels are grinding slowly toward prosecuting some of these criminals, e.g., Comey, Clapper, Ohr, McCabe, etc. and putting them in jail where they belong. Karma is a beautiful thing.

[Limey]

Well. Well. Well. I just wanted to check in now that Mueller's report was a bust, and it appears that the wheels are grinding slowly toward prosecuting some of these criminals, e.g., Comey, Clapper, Ohr, McCabe, etc. and putting them in jail where they belong. Karma is a beautiful thing.

Except that none of what you just said is, you know, real. 

[HudsonHawk]

Except that none of what you just said is, you know, real.

Since when has that ever stopped the yahoos?

[jbm]

Yeah, I guess it's not just a MH persona but the real deal.  It's must be hard to navigate through life with that naivete weighing one down.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Yeah, I guess it's not just a MH persona but the real deal.  It's must be hard to navigate through life with that naivete weighing one down.

What is MH? Mad Hatter?  Mental Health? Meat Head? Monster Hunter?

[MusicMan]

Well. Well. Well. I just wanted to check in now that Mueller's report was a bust, and it appears that the wheels are grinding slowly toward prosecuting some of these criminals, e.g., Comey, Clapper, Ohr, McCabe, etc. and putting them in jail where they belong. Karma is a beautiful thing.

What have you read in the report to say it is a bust?


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[Waldo]

Well. Well. Well. I just wanted to check in now that Mueller's report was a bust, and it appears that the wheels are grinding slowly toward prosecuting some of these criminals, e.g., Comey, Clapper, Ohr, McCabe, etc. and putting them in jail where they belong. Karma is a beautiful thing.

You showed astonishing restraint in waiting as long as you did to post this.  I expected this about a week ago.

You should have shown more restraint.

[Limey]

What have you read in the report to say it is a bust?

Well apart from the 199 criminal counts, 37 different people and entities charged, 7 guilty pleas, 1 trial conviction, 5 jail sentences and near $30 million received in forfeiture...what has Mueller ever done for us?

[BudGirl]

What have you read in the report to say it is a bust?


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Probably the same thing as the rest of us.  Nothing as they haven't released it. (have they??)   Just regular MAGA behavior.

[Limey]

Probably the same thing as the rest of us.  Nothing as they haven't released it. (have they??)   Just regular MAGA behavior.

Happy isn't keeping up with Bill Barr's missives; he walked back his original memo claiming that his summary wasn't a summary and shouldn't be taken as such.  So even that fig leaf of exoneration that they wore whilst victory-lapping DC last week has been taken away.  Since then, they've all been streaking.

[Mr. Happy]

Well apart from the 199 criminal counts, 37 different people and entities charged, 7 guilty pleas, 1 trial conviction, 5 jail sentences and near $30 million received in forfeiture...what has Mueller ever done for us?

But he didn’t get the target, which was a duly elected president. You libs know that you’re upset that Mueller didn’t find anything concerning collusion with the Russians. The other convictions were just about meaningless.

I noticed that none of you addressed the fate of the treasonous folks in the CIA, FBI and DOJ who had the unmitigated gall to try to topple a presidency. If this happened in just about any other country, the treasonous would have already been rounded up and executed. I am against the death penalty, but I could see some life sentences come out of it for Comey, Rosenstein, Ohr, Brennan, Clapper, Strzok and/or Page. I am not saying that all will get that life sentence, but some clearly deserve it.

[BudGirl]

This is one of those times where I want to type a response to crazy and I think to myself, don't.  Just don't.

So, I won't respond.  I'll just reply with a response saying I won't respond to bat-shit crazy posts.

[MusicMan]

But he didn’t get the target, which was a duly elected president.

The Mueller investigation targeted the topic of Russian interference in the 2016 election. He was not appointed to target the President. The President’s own actions resulted in investigation of him resulting.


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[Limey]

But he didn’t get the target, which was a duly elected president. You libs know that you’re upset that Mueller didn’t find anything concerning collusion with the Russians. The other convictions were just about meaningless.

That is something that you don't know.  What Barr quoted Mueller as saying was very specific:  "[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities."  The bracketed "T" at the start of the quote is from Barr, indicating that it's a sentence fragment.  Contrary to your assertion, all you've got is that tiny snippet from 400 pages plus voluminous underlying documentation.  That's some very slim pickings.

I noticed that none of you addressed the fate of the treasonous folks in the CIA, FBI and DOJ who had the unmitigated gall to try to topple a presidency. If this happened in just about any other country, the treasonous would have already been rounded up and executed. I am against the death penalty, but I could see some life sentences come out of it for Comey, Rosenstein, Ohr, Brennan, Clapper, Strzok and/or Page. I am not saying that all will get that life sentence, but some clearly deserve it.

Seriously, get a grip.  Who runs the CIA, FBI and DOJ?  It's been under Republican control for over two years.  Rosenstein was a registered Republican.  Mueller was a registered Republican.  McCabe was a registered Republican.  Sessions was a fucking Republican Senator.  Comey was a registered Republican.  Pompeo is Trump's Secretary of State (and a registered Republican).  These were/are the people in charge.  You are looking under rocks while getting kicked up the backside by your own people.

[Limey]

What is MH? Mad Hatter?  Mental Health? Meat Head? Monster Hunter?

Mother Humper.

[chuck]

This is one of those times where I want to type a response to crazy and I think to myself, don't.  Just don't.

So, I won't respond.  I'll just reply with a response saying I won't respond to bat-shit crazy posts.

More than a couple of times someone has written me off-list asking, Is this guy Hap really as crazy as he seems?

Well, there's little to no evidence to indicate that it's any sort of an act.

[BudGirl]

More than a couple of times someone has written me off-list asking, Is this guy Hap really as crazy as he seems?

Well, there's little to no evidence to indicate that it's any sort of an act.

He's a real MAGA person.  If they need additional verification, I'll give it.

[BizidyDizidy]

More than a couple of times someone has written me off-list asking, Is this guy Hap really as crazy as he seems?

Well, there's little to no evidence to indicate that it's any sort of an act.

You could tell them, not as crazy as he used to be?

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

He's a real MAGA person.  If they need additional verification, I'll give it.

He seemed okay in person, a real polite guy, almost a little shy. He comes off to me here as someone who watches FOX News for the content (and listens to Hannity and Rush), has his views affirmed and buys in 100%. It takes all kinds to define the norm. I'm last person to judge deviations from it.

MH... I get it now.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

More than a couple of times someone has written me off-list asking, Is this guy Hap really as crazy as he seems?

If anyone writes or has written you off-list to question if I'm as crazy as I seem, I hope you respond/ed with, "crazier."

[chuck]

If anyone writes or has written you off-list to question if I'm as crazy as I seem, I hope you respond/ed with, "crazier."

I tell them that you seem okay in person, a real polite guy, almost a little shy.

[BudGirl]

I tell them that you seem okay in person, a real polite guy, almost a little shy.

If they need additional verification, I'll give it.

[MusicMan]

I tell them that you seem okay in person, a real polite guy, almost a little shy.

I tell people the same about Trump.


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[Limey]

The House Ways and Means Committee Chairman just demanded 6 years of Trump's tax returns from the IRS.  He did so under a 1924 "committee access" law that was put in place after the infamous Teapot Dome scandal, where members of Harding's administration created giant conflicts of interest by refusing to divest their business interests.   The request goes straight to the Treasure Secretary, and the law requires they cough up the goods, no questions asked.

However, the law is so rarely used that it has never faced a challenge in federal court.  Expect that to change.

Meanwhile, there are many Democratic nominee contestants who have yet to release any tax returns.  There is no excuse for this; it should have been part of the campaign prep, prior to announcing.  It gifts Trump and his cronies a valid "whatabout".  Only Gillebrand, Inslee and (of course) Warren have released a number of years of full returns.  Some others have released summaries, but not full returns, which is not good enough.  Sanders hasn't released any tax returns ever, despite running for the nomination 4 years ago, after which time his excuses are as thin as his hair.

Time to put up on this topic.  They should all start dropping their tax returns right now so that TrumpWorld can't use their reticence as an excuse for him to shirk the W&M demand.

[Limey]

I don’t want to freak anyone out or anything, but some of Mueller’s investigators are saying that Barr’s take on the report (that he has since disavowed) does not accurately reflect the team’s findings.  I know...right?

[Limey]

You showed astonishing restraint in waiting as long as you did to post this.  I expected this about a week ago.

You should have shown more restraint.

I bet he now wishes he’d waited one more day. 

[Limey]

I don’t want to freak anyone out or anything, but some of Mueller’s investigators are saying that Barr’s take on the report (that he has since disavowed) does not accurately reflect the team’s findings.  I know...right?

It’s worth noting that this is the first ever news report on the Muelker probe that’s sourced to members of Mueller’s team; such a tight ship it has been...until now. 

It’s also worth noting that the report was prepared in such a way that each section had an executive summary that was carefully written so that it was ready for public consumption, ie pre-redacted.  So all this delay by Barr is just to keep the truth from the public while letting his fake summary cement in the minds of potential jurors voters. 

[Limey]

The House Ways and Means Committee Chairman just demanded 6 years of Trump's tax returns from the IRS.  He did so under a 1924 "committee access" law that was put in place after the infamous Teapot Dome scandal, where members of Harding's administration created giant conflicts of interest by refusing to divest their business interests.   The request goes straight to the Treasure Secretary, and the law requires they cough up the goods, no questions asked.

However, the law is so rarely used that it has never faced a challenge in federal court.  Expect that to change.

Apparently, the law has been used a number of times to obtain tax returns - including for the likes of Nixon, Ford and Rockefeller - and, notably, the IRS has never ever ever denied a  demand under the law.  Trump has said he won't allow his returns to be released, but the law doesn't require his approval, it requires only the written demand from the W&M Chairman (or the Senate Finance Chairman), which the IRS now has.

I don't know what the time frame is for their performance under the law.  If they deny the request, I can see some IRS executives getting hauled in front of Congress, slapped with subpoenas and maybe even fines if they try and hold out.  They have the returns, there's no process under which they are vetted or redacted, they just need to be copied and submitted.

[Limey]

More news of the "du-uh" variety:  White House Senior Advisor #1, who was given a security clearance over the strong objection of the people whose job it is to handle these things, is Jared Kushner.  He was given the highest level of clearance by the stroke of Trump-appointee Carl Kline's pen, despite the career professionals denying such clearace because Kushner had had too many "significant disqualifying factors", including "foreign influence, private business interests and personal conduct".  Ivanka was given clearance by Kline too...the same day.

At the risk of redundancy, it goes without saying that Trump, Kushner and Ivanka are all on record as saying that this never happened.

[jbm]

Apparently, the law has been used a number of times to obtain tax returns - including for the likes of Nixon, Ford and Rockefeller - and, notably, the IRS has never ever ever denied a  demand under the law.  Trump has said he won't allow his returns to be released, but the law doesn't require his approval, it requires only the written demand from the W&M Chairman (or the Senate Finance Chairman), which the IRS now has.

I don't know what the time frame is for their performance under the law.  If they deny the request, I can see some IRS executives getting hauled in front of Congress, slapped with subpoenas and maybe even fines if they try and hold out.  They have the returns, there's no process under which they are vetted or redacted, they just need to be copied and submitted.

I not familiar with the exact statutes authorizing the ability to require the release of a President's taxes, but I was somewhat concerned about the reason I heard.  Some guy on the committee stated that they needed them to see if the IRS was treating Trump properly, and to see if they are/were under audit.  Previously, I had heard that the law allowed Congress to obtain the records, but it was more for the purpose to see if the President was violating the emoluments clause.

At any rate, while it is important to know that he is getting favorable treatment by the IRS, it is far more important to know if his policy decisions are leading to his personal financial gain.

[Limey]

I not familiar with the exact statutes authorizing the ability to require the release of a President's taxes, but I was somewhat concerned about the reason I heard.  Some guy on the committee stated that they needed them to see if the IRS was treating Trump properly, and to see if they are/were under audit.  Previously, I had heard that the law allowed Congress to obtain the records, but it was more for the purpose to see if the President was violating the emoluments clause.

At any rate, while it is important to know that he is getting favorable treatment by the IRS, it is far more important to know if his policy decisions are leading to his personal financial gain.

I'm not sure that there is an need for an underlying reason to demand the returns but, in this case, there are multiple legitimate reasons from the the emoluments issue to the potential for influence by foreign investors.  The question of whether there's an ongoing audit was a supplementary one, because Trump has claimed that he's under perpetual audit.  Regardless, Trump has filed his all requested returns so, audit or no, they exist to be provided to Congress (which is why his claim about an audit preventing him releasing his returns during the campaign were always bullshit, see also Sanders, Bernie).

Chairman Neal gave the IRS a deadline of April 10.  Legally, he cannot release them to the public; also legally, he can have them submitted to the full Congress and read into the record, after which they become available to the public.

[Limey]

Chuck Grassley is feeling his oats/heading for retirement, because he's stepping out of the Trump channel a little these days.  I.e. acknowledging reality.

He called Trump's claims that wind turbine noise gives you cancer "idiotic" and, today, said that he supports the release of the Mueller report.  It's worth noting here that the House voted 420-0 to release the report publicly too.  Trump's list of allies grows thin.

[Limey]

I don't know if this is in additional to the nomination of the perpetually wrong, deadbeat dad, tax-defaulter and self-described unqualified person Stephen Moore, but Trump has also/instead nominated Herman Cain to the Fed board.  Cain ran for president in 2012, where his bid fell apart amid credible accusations of sexual abuse, as well as him lifting his tax plan from a video game and using the lyrics of the Pokemon theme song in a debate answer.

#TheBestPeople

[Limey]

Speaking of releasing taxes, for 2017, our effective federal income tax rate (total tax / total income) was 18.15%.  Having just completed our 2018 tax return, I can now report that our effective federal income tax tax rate is 19.36%.  That's a 6.667% increase in our tax rate.  Thank Obama.

[HudsonHawk]

Speaking of releasing taxes, for 2017, our effective federal income tax rate (total tax / total income) was 18.15%.  Having just completed our 2018 tax return, I can now report that our effective federal income tax tax rate is 19.36%.  That's a 6.667% increase in our tax rate.  Thank Obama.

Perhaps you need a new CPA.  I have a card...

[Limey]

Perhaps you need a new CPA.  I have a card...

Nope.  She does a great job.  There's no getting around the cut in the property tax allowance, which completely fucked our gross-to-taxable income ratio.

[Limey]

The Mueller team, that was such a tight ship for so long, sprang a leak yesterday which has turned into a torrent.  The latest reporting, sourced to the Mueller team, is that there was no  finding of any criminal conspiracy for collusion, because the Trump campaign was actually being manipulated by a sophisticated Russian intelligence operation.  So, even if they thought they were being clever - hence all the lying about the contacts with Russians - they were simply being duped.  It's an interesting twist, yet makes complete sense, that they were too dumb to commit the crime they thought they might have committed.

Oh, and as to those Russian contacts, the full Mueller report has detailed files.

[jbm]

Apparently, DOJ said today that every page of the Mueller report has information which must be redacted.  It's a cover up, or the DOJ version of obstruction of justice.

[Limey]

Apparently, DOJ said today that every page of the Mueller report has information which must be redacted.  It's a cover up, or the DOJ version of obstruction of justice.

The DOJ said that every page had a alert that it may contain confidential Grand Jury materials.  Washington Post reports claim that the lead for each section was written in such a way as to avoid disclosing any sensitive information - Grand Jury or otherwise - with the intent that they could be lifted and released to the public as is.  That doesn't mean, though, that there wasn't a stamp, header, footer or watermark with the Grand Jury caution on those pages too.

Of course, the DOJ has a couple of options here:

(1) it could review those section leads first, and clear them for public release; or

(b) like it did with the Watergate Special Prosecutor's report, get a court order allowing the release of the Grand Jury materials to Congress.  The DOJ did this immediately upon receipt of the Watergate report and Barr could have and can get this done very quickly at any time he chooses.

He has chosen not to do either of these things, which makes it disingenuous to use the Grand Jury materials as a defense for not releasing the report to anyone.

The fact that Mueller's team handed the report to Barr on a plate, since which time Barr has acted to obfuscate its core findings and is working to render the entire thing dead by redaction, appears to be what's sparking the heretofore unthinkable leaks.  They didn't do all this work for 2 years for Barr to deep six it.

[Bench]

The DOJ said that every page had a alert that it may contain confidential Grand Jury materials.  Washington Post reports claim that the lead for each section was written in such a way as to avoid disclosing any sensitive information - Grand Jury or otherwise - with the intent that they could be lifted and released to the public as is.  That doesn't mean, though, that there wasn't a stamp, header, footer or watermark with the Grand Jury caution on those pages too.

Of course, the DOJ has a couple of options here:

(1) it could review those section leads first, and clear them for public release; or

(b) like it did with the Watergate Special Prosecutor's report, get a court order allowing the release of the Grand Jury materials to Congress.  The DOJ did this immediately upon receipt of the Watergate report and Barr could have and can get this done very quickly at any time he chooses.

He has chosen not to do either of these things, which makes it disingenuous to use the Grand Jury materials as a defense for not releasing the report to anyone.

The fact that Mueller's team handed the report to Barr on a plate, since which time Barr has acted to obfuscate its core findings and is working to render the entire thing dead by redaction, appears to be what's sparking the heretofore unthinkable leaks.  They didn't do all this work for 2 years for Barr to deep six it.

There's also a difference between releasing the report to the public versus congress. There's absolutely no justification to provide congress with any redacted materials.

[austro]

There's also a difference between releasing the report to the public versus congress. There's absolutely no justification to provide congress with any redacted materials.

Well, except that they're (probably rightfully) concerned that it will leak from Congress.

I'm not sure how I feel about all of this. I understand the concern about revealing methods and sources. And I also understand the concern about disparaging material about individuals appearing without giving them a chance to rebut. But this is serious shit, and these guys work for us, and we have a right (and a need) to understand just how complicit and corrupt the various parties are (or are not, as the case may be).

[Limey]

Well, except that they're (probably rightfully) concerned that it will leak from Congress.

Even with a court order to allow the release of Grand Jury materials to Congress, they would still be barred from letting it go further.

I'm not sure how I feel about all of this. I understand the concern about revealing methods and sources. And I also understand the concern about disparaging material about individuals appearing without giving them a chance to rebut. But this is serious shit, and these guys work for us, and we have a right (and a need) to understand just how complicit and corrupt the various parties are (or are not, as the case may be).

This is the bit that often gets forgotten, and appears to be being completely ignored by the administration.  I mean, their job is right there in that word "administration".  We paid for the report, it was done on our behalf.  So, subject to necessary intel and Grand Jury redactions, we should see it.

[Limey]

DHS Sec. Nielsen showed up to a 5pm, Sunday night meeting with Trump with a resignation letter in hand.  Reportedly, Trump has become more and more unhinged about the fact that asylum-seekers show up at the southern border seeking, you know, asylum, and Nielsen has failed to stop them from doing this act with is both legal under US and international law.  So she quit/was fired and Trump tweeted it out before she could release her letter publicly.  No sympathy here; she belongs in jail (don't forget that the very white, very blond, blue-eyed Kirsjen Nielsen once tried to argue that she didn't realize that Norway was over 90% white while defending Trump's "shithole countries" nonsense.

As we have come to realize with Trump now, there is no celebration at her demise (she'll get a lucrative job in the private sector somewhere, even after this shit-show), the concern should be who comes next.  He usually picks someone worse.  In this case, he's supposedly going to nominate Kevin McAleenan, the current Commissioner of the CBP and about whom we know very little at this time.

[chuck]

He usually picks someone worse.  In this case, he's supposedly going to nominate Kevin McAleenan, the current Commissioner of the CBP and about whom we know very little at this time.

Maybe Cruella De Vil couldn't obtain the necessary security clearance.

[MRaup]

Maybe Cruella De Vil couldn't obtain the necessary security clearance.

President Trump, some of these people on your list for positions are dead...

THEN CROSS THEM OFF THE LIST!

[Limey]

Maybe Cruella De Vil couldn't obtain the necessary security clearance.

She’s already running the Dept. of Education.

[Limey]

Now that Nielsen is out - her resignation was effective immediately - we have a Department of Homeland Security without a Senate-confirmed secretary.  According to the DHS leadership page, there will also be no Senate-confirmed deputy secretary, no Senate-confirmed Secret Service director (Trump fired him too), no Senate-confirmed FEMA chief, no Senate-confirmed head of ICE, and no Senate-confirmed DHS inspector general.

Meanwhile, the woman who breached the wet paper towel of security at Mar-a-Lago recently turned out to have a ton of proper spy kit in her hotel room, including a signal detector capable of detecting hidden cameras. 

[jbm]

He also canned the head of the Secret Service.  Don't know if it was for not catching her, or catching her.

[Limey]

He also canned the head of the Secret Service.  Don't know if it was for not catching her, or catching her.

Apparently, he used to call him”Dumbo” because of his ears. 

Smart move to insult the guy in charge of those who will stand between you and bullets. 

Trump is not the worst person in the world, but he would be if it wasn’t for our pesky laws. 

[Limey]

Barr is testifying to Congress this morning, which should be interesting.  In his opening statement, he said that the Mueller report will be available to the public next week, with color-coded redactions so that we can know what type of information we're not being allowed to see.  I expect the thing with be a 400-page Rothko painting.

I understand and accept that reports like this need to be redacted.  The chicken-and-egg problem with redactions is that, when you can't see what you can't see you have no way to know if the redactions are appropriate.  For that you have to trust the redactor, and in this case I really, truly don't.  This is why Congress needs to see the full, unredacted report; that's how oversight by a co-equal branch of government works.  They can then decide if the redactions are appropriate, but they also have the responsibility of acting on what's in the report if it implicates the president.

After all, the reason the DOJ won't indict a sitting president is because that's Congress' job through the impeachment process.  The DOJ can't say that it can't do anything and then withhold from the body that it says has that duty the information with which to perform that duty.  Today Barr has already reaffirmed that Congress doesn't get the full report, which I'm sure will spark some lively questions*.

* Dear God please ask some questions; don't testify from the committee platform and then run out of time!  Can they give everyone remedial question-asking classes - hosted by AOC?  Thank you.

[jbm]

First question should be:  Why haven't you gone to the judge in order to release the grand jury testimony to Congress?  Next one:  Where did you get the ridiculous category of harming third parties from?

[Limey]

First question should be:  Why haven't you gone to the judge in order to release the grand jury testimony to Congress?  Next one:  Where did you get the ridiculous category of harming third parties from?

First questions appear to be about the ACA and the decision not to defend it.  Barr says that it doesn't matter because the administration's position is so outlandish that they can't win.  WT fucking F?  Yes, and an OWA softball team has no prayer of beating the Yankees, but we would (probably) if they didn't show up!

Also, re the line of questioning, I get it.  Barr is on the clock to release the full Mueller report to Congress and, failing to do so, faces a subpoena.  No need to waste valuable questioning minutes to litigate that issue right now.

[Limey]

Oh, someone did ask Barr if the White House had seen the report, and he refused flat out to answer that question.  (1) so that's a yes, and (b) how does he get away with not answering that question?

[Limey]

First question should be:  Why haven't you gone to the judge in order to release the grand jury testimony to Congress?  Next one:  Where did you get the ridiculous category of harming third parties from?

He was asked this specifically, to which his answer was (paraphrasing) “Nuts!”

[Limey]

Here is Trump's (small) hand-picked stooge to be the IRS commissioner, physically shaking while under very polite, very simple questions from Congress as to why he isn't complying with the order to cough up Trump's tax returns.

I really cannot get my head around as to why, after 2 years of anyone coming within Trump's orbit getting savaged and, at best, leaving with their reputation in tatters, anyone chooses to take these posts.  Jumping in now just heightens the chance that you'll end up in jail.  Like this guy, quivering in his seat because discussing the order to release the tax returns with the White House - which you know has absolutely happened multiple times already - is a crime punishable by up to 5 years with Manafort.

[Limey]

In an ironic twist, in order to obtain the full, unredacted Mueller report, Congress may have to open impeachment proceedings in order to establish its legal claim to the document.

[jbm]

They're not going to do that.  The democrats have shown themselves to be cowards.  Most recent evidence: I haven't seen a clip of any of them tell Bob Barr that he is a motherfucking partisan hack (or in more polite public terms) who every step of the way has chosen a path most likely to obstruct the people of America (or the Representatives) from seeing the truth.  He is such a transparent partisan, and the Dems treat him like he some public servant deserving respect.

[Limey]

They're not going to do that.  The democrats have shown themselves to be cowards.  Most recent evidence: I haven't seen a clip of any of them tell Bob Barr that he is a motherfucking partisan hack (or in more polite public terms) who every step of the way has chosen a path most likely to obstruct the people of America (or the Representatives) from seeing the truth.  He is such a transparent partisan, and the Dems treat him like he some public servant deserving respect.

To be fair, he only really let his MAGA flag fly today, with the spying nonsense and an impromptu "build the wall" chant.  This evening, Pelosi said that he's supposed to be the AG for the USA, not the AG for Trump.  At least there's no longer a veil of respectability about the man or the work he is doing.  That will make him easier to deal with, as he doesn't seem to grasp the fact that he won't be the AG forever and Trump won't be president forever.

He's a lot more like Giuliani than we could ever have expected.

[Navin R Johnson]

Yeah, but do you guys hear about Obama giving 87 bigillion dollars to Iran and then ordering pizzagate on uber eats using Seth Rich’s phone?

[Limey]

Assange arrested in the UK, “on behalf of the United States.”

Cat, meet pigeons. 

[jbm]

I just saw the little clip of him being evicted from his safe room.  I guess he's going for the "I'm so far gone, give me sympathy" defense.

[Limey]

I just saw the little clip of him being evicted from his safe room.  I guess he's going for the "I'm so far gone, give me sympathy" defense.

Yeah, ask Manafort how that goes.

Meanwhile, the EDVA has unsealed indictments of Assange for his involvement in the hacking element of the Chelsea Manning case.  Notably, he is not being charged with anything related to the dissemination of the hacked materials, which should calm concerns about 1st amendment rights.  Of course, while he's here, they may as well go ahead and discuss another hacking operation in which he was allegedly involved...

Oh, and Sweden isn't done on the rape allegations either, quite rightly.  Maybe we'll play Rök Pypr Sîßőŗŝ for him.

[chuck]

Hopefully he'll hit Sîßőŗŝ first because did you see that beard?

[Limey]

Hopefully he'll hit Sîßőŗŝ first because did you see that beard?

He's going to play himself off as Steven Avery and try to get Kathleen Zellner to spring him from jail.

[Bench]

Meanwhile Trump's sister retired from her (inactive) position as a federal appellate judge amid evidence she participated in a tax fraud scheme with her siblings (including DJT).

[Navin R Johnson]

People like  Mr Happy actually think Trump is draining the swamp.  It’s hard to imagine how fucking stupid/brainwashed you have to be to think DONALD TRUMP is draining the swamp.  Morons. 

[Limey]

Meanwhile Trump's sister retired from her (inactive) position as a federal appellate judge amid evidence she participated in a tax fraud scheme with her siblings (including DJT).

SDNY is still looking at all this.  In the words of Agent Smith: "She's not out yet."

[Limey]

From the Washington Post:

White House officials have tried to pressure U.S. immigration authorities to release detainees onto the streets of “sanctuary cities” to retaliate against President Trump’s political adversaries, according to Department of Homeland Security officials and email messages reviewed by The Washington Post.

There's so many abhorrent elements to this.  They are pushing to use asylum-seekers as human pawns in their evil game.  They are pushing to inflict what they believe is a wave of drugs, crime and rape (plus maybe some good people) onto cities they consider to be their political enemies.  They really do believe that these asylum-seekers are some form of brown crime bomb that they can drop on their enemies.  They believe that elements of the US population are their enemies.

The more I think about this, the more my head explodes, like a firework display finale that just keeps getting bigger.

[jbm]

As everyone heard, or at least surmised, when asked "Do you still love Wikileaks," the pathological liar now says he knows nothing about Wikileaks, it's not his thing.   No big deal; it's to be expected.  Now the press is asking Republicans about Trump's love of Wikileaks and they defer, saying "you need to ask him." 

Instead, the press should be pressuring Republicans about why Assange's extradition is being sought for his role with Manning, but apparently not in his role as a Russian cutout in the 2016 election.  We know Trump doesn't want him charged with that, but the Republicans should also have to be on record about this.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

From the Washington Post:

There's so many abhorrent elements to this.  They are pushing to use asylum-seekers as human pawns in their evil game.  They are pushing to inflict what they believe is a wave of drugs, crime and rape (plus maybe some good people) onto cities they consider to be their political enemies.  They really do believe that these asylum-seekers are some form of brown crime bomb that they can drop on their enemies.  They believe that elements of the US population are their enemies.

The more I think about this, the more my head explodes, like a firework display finale that just keeps getting bigger.

I get what you are saying Limey and it's shameful to make these migrants pawns in a political game but on the flip side, If I had just risked my life traveling from Central America through Mexico to migrate to the US, I might prefer a city that welcomed me over a hostile one.

[jbm]

I did want to add that I hope the irony is not lost of Mr. Assange: his work in helping to elect Trump eventually might lead to his own extradition.  Obama was hesitant to pursue his extradition over the Manning deal, and Clinton might have been the same.  However, Trump's group wants to go after leaks and has chosen to pursue Assange on the charge that he helped Manning steal the secrets and not on the charge that he disseminated the secrets.

[Bench]

I get what you are saying Limey and it's shameful to make these migrants pawns in a political game but on the flip side, If I had just risked my life traveling from Central America through Mexico to migrate to the US, I might prefer a city that welcomed me over a hostile one.

That's the most amazing thing to me. Unless they are combing through the population of migrant families to find the rare particularly vicious sort to inflict upon random people who happen to live in places that Trump perceives to be his political enemies, the reaction should be "so what?" Houston has one of the largest populations of refugees in the country. The more the merrier.

But Trump and his cronies' motives are so fucked up.

[Limey]

But Trump and his cronies' motives are so fucked up.

That’s the point.  It’s not necessarily what they’re doing, it’s why they’re doing it.  And, just to remove all doubt, Trump crowed on Twitter that this is exactly what he wants to do. 

[Limey]

I get what you are saying Limey and it's shameful to make these migrants pawns in a political game but on the flip side, If I had just risked my life traveling from Central America through Mexico to migrate to the US, I might prefer a city that welcomed me over a hostile one.

I think they should send them to the same cities their kids are in.  Oh wait, they don't know where their kids are.

[Bench]

Trump told CBP head he'd pardon him if he were sent to jail for violating immigration law

Just another obviously impeachable abuse of power.

[Limey]

Trump told CBP head he'd pardon him if he were sent to jail for violating immigration law

Just another obviously impeachable abuse of power.

A new one every day; like an evil, four-year advent calendar. 

[Bench]

A new one every day; like an evil, four-year advent calendar.

Here's an [https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1116811681462616065.html]unrolled tweet thread[/url] from David Rothkopf summarizing the most recent disgraces.

[Navin R Johnson]

yet shit stains like Mr Happy cheer him on Sad!

[Limey]

The White House is preparing a 200-page rebuttal to the report it hasn’t seen that “totally exonerates” Trump. 

[jbm]

Will Barr release a two page summary?

[Limey]

Given that the Mueller report - looking like it had been left on an elementary school desk next to a full pack of magic markers, no doubt - may be released this week, let's have a little fun with one of the sentence fragments that Barr chose to include in his not at all a summary (some 4 weeks ago now).  Here it is:

[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

The import part here is the "[T]" at the start, which means that there was a word or words ahead of this phrase.  So, what do you think precedes this phrase?

[jbm]

"Because we cannot clearly establish that members of the Trump Campaign knew that Wikileaks was an arm of the Russian government,"

or

"Though they clearly were receptive to Russian assistance to their ccampaign and did not report Russian interference to the FBI,"

[Limey]

Due almost entirely to the Trump campaign's staggering incompetence at even basic tasks...

[Limey]

Mueller report to be dumped on Thursday - I’m assuming late in the day - on the long Easter weekend and right ahead of one of Congress’ longest recesses.  Reports claim that the White House has at least been briefed on the report and is concerned about what’s in it. 
#Transparency

[Lefty]

I like Trump's tweet advising the Paris authorities that they "Must act quickly!" to put out the horrible fire at Notre Dame.

[jbm]

That tweet was after offering this sage advice:

but if I were Boeing, I would FIX the Boeing 737 MAX, add some additional great features, & REBRAND the plane with a new name.

[MusicMan]

President Trump really capturing the tragedy of the fire at Notre Dame:

"Renovations - what's that all about?"

[BudGirl]

President Trump really capturing the tragedy of the fire at Notre Dame:

"Renovations - what's that all about?"

No one should ever look to him for reassuring comments. 

[jbm]

Now he is going to award Tiger the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his Masters victory.  The guy is fucking insane.  I like Tiger, and it was great seeing that yesterday, but come on.  I bet he heard that Obama congratulated or talked with Tiger, so Trump, being a blustery asshole who has to one-up Obama, decided he had to do something, and of course it follows that he would award the Medal of Freedom for winning a golf tournament.

[jbm]

Never mind, I see that this is relatively common, even though there appears to be a big mismatch between the name of the award and the achievements by many who receive it.

[HudsonHawk]

Now he is going to award Tiger the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his Masters victory.  The guy is fucking insane.  I like Tiger, and it was great seeing that yesterday, but come on.  I bet he heard that Obama congratulated or talked with Tiger, so Trump, being a blustery asshole who has to one-up Obama, decided he had to do something, and of course it follows that he would award the Medal of Freedom for winning a golf tournament.

It’s not for a particular event, but a body of work. I have no problem with Tiger getting it. Many athletes have, and it’s hard to argue that Tiger is not if one the most famous and notable athletes of the 21st century.

[HudsonHawk]

No one should ever look to him for reassuring comments.

I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that his sentiments are genuine. But he just needs to shut the fuck up.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

President Trump really capturing the tragedy of the fire at Notre Dame:

"Renovations - what's that all about?"

He's flying to Indiana to survey the site.

[austro]

It’s not for a particular event, but a body of work. I have no problem with Tiger getting it. Many athletes have, and it’s hard to argue that Tiger is not if one the most famous and notable athletes of the 21st century.

I'm sure that part of it is about the golf, but I'll bet part of it is also about the blondes.

[MusicMan]

He's flying to Indiana to survey the site.

Bravo


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[Limey]

I'm sure that part of it is about the golf, but I'll bet part of it is also about the blondes.

...and the porn stars. 

[Limey]

He's flying to Indiana to survey the site.

He referred to Notre Dame as a “museum”.  Seriously.  He thinks it’s the Louvre. 

[MusicMan]

He referred to Notre Dame as a “museum”.  Seriously.  He thinks it’s the Louvre.

Ok, need a citation on that one.


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