Author Topic: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime  (Read 158460 times)

jbm

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #100 on: November 09, 2016, 02:06:39 pm »
Dismissing Trump as just another republican and his followers as driven by racist motives on the day after the election is based in ignorance. I have been following this... closely... and have yet to find any "reports" of anything you discuss.

Any reports of racism amongst many of his followers?  I assume/hope you are not serious.

As to not doing what he said he was going to do (wall, immigrants and Muslims), that came from the RNC chairman while I was listening to MSNBC on the drive in.  The tax cut and eliminate regulation thing is basically his platform, which he didn't talk about much as he didn't have time between the talk about the wall, immigrants, Muslims and Hillary.

Trade?  Sure, I'll give you that, especially the day after he repeals NAFTA.   

Here's an article: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/who-is-in-president-trump-cabinet-231071

Jacksonian

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #101 on: November 09, 2016, 02:25:23 pm »
Any reports of racism amongst many of his followers?  I assume/hope you are not serious.

As to not doing what he said he was going to do (wall, immigrants and Muslims), that came from the RNC chairman while I was listening to MSNBC on the drive in.  The tax cut and eliminate regulation thing is basically his platform, which he didn't talk about much as he didn't have time between the talk about the wall, immigrants, Muslims and Hillary.

Trade?  Sure, I'll give you that, especially the day after he repeals NAFTA.   

Here's an article: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/who-is-in-president-trump-cabinet-231071

I don't think I'm going to expect anything based on that article.  There's a ton of speculation in there without much, "Trump said he will look at these people..."  This election cycle should have taught everyone that other peoples' speculation means little with Trump's actions.
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #102 on: November 10, 2016, 06:23:18 am »
I was totally surprised by the outcome. I knew she was unpopular but still figured she'd win in a landslide because Trump is such a megalomaniacal kook. I think maybe Hillary lost because of the cumulative effect of a multitude of circumstances going as far back as Bill's presidential peccadilloes, the Bengazi tragedy, the damning content of the hacked emails, the deception and manipulation of the DNC, the pay for play scandal, the $250,000.00 speeches to Wall Street bankers... etc., finally took it's toll. Then the party fractured, die hard establishment democrats who live in a an echo chamber disregarded the progressive cries of the Bernie supporters. But not because she was a woman.
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Mr. Happy

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #103 on: November 10, 2016, 07:49:50 am »
I was totally surprised by the outcome. I knew she was unpopular but still figured she'd win in a landslide because Trump is such a megalomaniacal kook. I think maybe Hillary lost because of the cumulative effect of a multitude of circumstances going as far back as Bill's presidential peccadilloes, the Bengazi tragedy, the damning content of the hacked emails, the deception and manipulation of the DNC, the pay for play scandal, the $250,000.00 speeches to Wall Street bankers... etc., finally took it's toll. Then the party fractured, die hard establishment democrats who live in a an echo chamber disregarded the progressive cries of the Bernie supporters. But not because she was a woman.

I agree. She was an awful candidate, but it was her turn to bat. I was pleasantly surprised by the result. Trump successfully painted Hillary as the establishment candidate, when the public was anti-establishment. His "drain the swamp" message resonated.

The onus is now on the Republicans to govern. We need some real leadership in the worst way and to facilitate more economic development and to spread that to the middle class. The beauty of this situation is Trump is really not beholden to any major special interest groups, and he will be as much a thorn in the establishment Republicans' sides as anyone else.

I'm very much looking forward to his first 100 days to see what he can accomplish.
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #104 on: November 10, 2016, 08:40:25 am »
A beauty pageant MC runs against America's most visible feminist, but yeah, gender didn't have anything to do with the results. Y'all crazy. In my work, I routinely come across young women who are virulently anti-feminist. Sexism isn't strictly within the purview of men. 

She's going to win the popular vote, by the way. At the end of the day, the GOP will have lost their sixth popular vote out of seven, will have lost seats in the House and the Senate, and will claim a massive mandate. Those same bozos were preemptively claiming that a narrow Clinton victory wouldn't convey one.

What makes me angriest is that Mitch McConnell's transparently cynical Supreme Court gambit is going to pay off enormously. He and his caucus disenfranchised the 60 million voters who supported Obama in 2012, will disenfranchise the majority that voted for Hillary this time around, and they're never going to pay for it, because conservative voters evidently don't give a shit. Piss on the constitution all you want as long as it brings a W.

18% of voters who believed he was unqualified to be president pulled the lever for him anyway (thanks!), and now we all get to watch the Democrats be the sort of graceful losers their opponents--as they're currently constituted--could never be. Suddenly thick on the ground are lefty pundits gritting their teeth and saying give him a chance to lead, we're all on the same team, our highest priority is to make sure he loses in four years...oh wait, right, that was McConnell re: Obama. 

The party the majority of the country disagrees with on taxes, climate change, gun control, entitlements, abortion and gay marriage is going to enjoy more power than any other party in 80 years. We are F-U-C-K-E-D fucked.

Jacksonian

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #105 on: November 10, 2016, 09:02:21 am »
... is going to enjoy more power than any other party in 80 years. We are F-U-C-K-E-D fucked.

Your entire rant is invalidated by this phrase.  You have forgotten the super-majority, we can do anything we want, republicans can go sit at the back of the bus, democrat federal government of 2009-10.  They literally did whatever they wanted including passing a massive, what was then a generally unpopular, health care bill.

A party controlling the House, Senate, and Presidency tend to lose the House and Senate quickly.  I expect a majority democrat House and Senate after the 2018 elections.
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #106 on: November 10, 2016, 09:10:37 am »
Your entire response to my entire rant is invalidated by your critical omission of the Supreme Court. They invalidated much of what Obama and the brief democratic majority accomplished. That will not be the case now.

ETA: to say nothing of Republican control of statehouses and governorships, which currently ties a 94-year-old record.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 09:29:37 am by Knoxbanedoodle »

Jacksonian

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #107 on: November 10, 2016, 09:15:29 am »
Your entire response to my entire rant is invalidated by your critical omission of the Supreme Court. They invalidated much of what Obama and the brief democratic majority accomplished. That will not be the case now.

Invalidated what?  The most important decision for ACA was Roberts siding with Obama and sending republicans into seizure.

Too how republican is Trump?  It wasn't long ago he was a pro-choice, pro-Clinton democrat.  I'm not convinced you'll see a very conservative nominee to the Supreme Court.
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homer

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #108 on: November 10, 2016, 09:16:24 am »
They invalidated much of what Obama and the brief democratic majority accomplished.

You'll have to explain this in greater detail.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #109 on: November 10, 2016, 09:20:15 am »
Your entire response to my entire rant is invalidated by your critical omission of the Supreme Court. They invalidated much of what Obama and the brief democratic majority accomplished. That will not be the case now.

I have said this before, but I'll say it again: The Senate should have given the SCOTUS nominee a hearing. Don't be surprised if they still do so, because there are a lot of R's who are scared about who Trump might nominate.
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #110 on: November 10, 2016, 09:21:38 am »
The two years of democratic executive and legislative control resulted in the ACA, another round of TARP investment, and Dodd Frank. The hallmark legislation, the ACA, was handicapped right out of the gates by the Supreme Court's allowing states to opt out of Medicaid expansion. Dodd Frank will likely be maimed or erased in Trump's first 100 days.

Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #111 on: November 10, 2016, 09:30:26 am »
"The country's most visible feminist" is an opportunist who you likely wouldn't be aware of if she had 't married Bill. Camille Paglia even thinks so. And how is feminism not sexist. And what the fuck does any of that have to do with being a president of the people?
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« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 09:32:02 am by Sphinx Drummond »
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Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #112 on: November 10, 2016, 09:36:39 am »
"The country's most visible feminist" is an opportunist who you likely wouldn't be aware of if she had 't married Bill. Camille Paglia even thinks so. And how is feminism not sexist. And what the fuck does any of that have to do with being a president of the people?

I have no idea how to respond to any of that.

Knoxbanedoodle

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #113 on: November 10, 2016, 09:41:59 am »
Invalidated what?  The most important decision for ACA was Roberts siding with Obama and sending republicans into seizure.

Too how republican is Trump?  It wasn't long ago he was a pro-choice, pro-Clinton democrat.  I'm not convinced you'll see a very conservative nominee to the Supreme Court.

Besides crippling the ACA, they blocked him on his immigration efforts and a pivotal plank of his environmental program. The Court was a qualified ally of the right wing block until Scalia's death, became a compromised ally of it after, and will likely be a much stronger ally for the next thirty or forty years.

And if the nominee's not conservative enough, what chance do you think s/he has of making it through confirmation? Why on earth would Republicans consent to anything but another Scalia? 

jbm

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #114 on: November 10, 2016, 09:43:47 am »
I agree. She was an awful candidate, but it was her turn to bat. I was pleasantly surprised by the result. Trump successfully painted Hillary as the establishment candidate, when the public was anti-establishment. His "drain the swamp" message resonated.

What exactly is his "drain the swamp" message?  I couldn't stomach listening to him, so I honestly don't know.  I heard term limits.  Is that true?  Was there more?  Lobbyists?  Corporate welfare (think drug companies)?  Or was the swamp just Democrats/Obama?

At any rate, if the swamp was more than Obama, I'm looking forward to just what he proposes.

My hope is as follows with Trump:  I've already said that he appears to be, and will certainly start as a run of the mill republican, but I'm pretty confident he cares more about adulation than actual principles.  So, he will at first rubber stamp the Republican's agenda, but I suspect the public's taste for a lot of that agenda is less than then the 50/50 vote split might indicate.  Polls will show this, public demonstrations will easily materialize, and he will hear a shifting cry from the people.  Trump, who at his core only wants to be loved, will abide the shifting cries of the people and break from core Republican orthodoxy and be something unique.  Maybe he actually will address things like term limits.  My hope at least.


Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #115 on: November 10, 2016, 09:49:59 am »
I have no idea how to respond to any of that.
Maybe you should read more.
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Jacksonian

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #116 on: November 10, 2016, 09:58:53 am »
What exactly is his "drain the swamp" message?  I couldn't stomach listening to him, so I honestly don't know.  I heard term limits.  Is that true?  Was there more?  Lobbyists?  Corporate welfare (think drug companies)?  Or was the swamp just Democrats/Obama?

At any rate, if the swamp was more than Obama, I'm looking forward to just what he proposes.

My hope is as follows with Trump:  I've already said that he appears to be, and will certainly start as a run of the mill republican, but I'm pretty confident he cares more about adulation than actual principles.  So, he will at first rubber stamp the Republican's agenda, but I suspect the public's taste for a lot of that agenda is less than then the 50/50 vote split might indicate.  Polls will show this, public demonstrations will easily materialize, and he will hear a shifting cry from the people.  Trump, who at his core only wants to be loved, will abide the shifting cries of the people and break from core Republican orthodoxy and be something unique.  Maybe he actually will address things like term limits.  My hope at least.

I love this.  No one, especially on the left, has gotten it right on Trump.  Trump the politician has never existed.  For all anyone knows he'll end his inauguration address with, "Screw it.  It's all your's Pence.  I'm out."  I have no idea if he'll run right, center, or left.  Or if he'll move in any direction over 4 years.  Or if he'll run again in 4 years.

For the record, I wrote my own name in.
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GreatBagwellsBeard

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #117 on: November 10, 2016, 10:12:14 am »
With regard to "drain the swamp", his announced 100 day agenda includes term limits and prohibitions on former members of Congress/White House staff serving as lobbyists for some number of years after they leave office.  Both will be hard sells in front of any Congress, but we've all be very surprised lately.
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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #118 on: November 10, 2016, 10:15:04 am »
With regard to "drain the swamp", his announced 100 day agenda includes term limits and prohibitions on former members of Congress/White House staff serving as lobbyists for some number of years after they leave office.  Both will be hard sells in front of any Congress, but we've all be very surprised lately.

Term limits requires a Constitutional amendment. That sure ain't happening by April.
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homer

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Re: Roger Angell on "Most Important" Vote of His Lifetime
« Reply #119 on: November 10, 2016, 10:29:12 am »
Besides crippling the ACA, they blocked him on his immigration efforts and a pivotal plank of his environmental program. The Court was a qualified ally of the right wing block until Scalia's death, became a compromised ally of it after, and will likely be a much stronger ally for the next thirty or forty years.

And if the nominee's not conservative enough, what chance do you think s/he has of making it through confirmation? Why on earth would Republicans consent to anything but another Scalia? 

It's pretty clear that we disagree on the function of the Supreme Court. As Jacksonian point out, their decisions put republicans of all types into seizure- it seems, as though, if you are also this unhappy with them they are doing a better job than I thought.
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