Trade Deadline Rumors

[Nate Colbert]

Nick Cafardo says the Blue Jays are scouting the Astros system closely.

Also says the Astros (along with a slew of other contenders) interested in the Rays' Matt Moore.

Link

[Navin R Johnson]

Apparently the Jays have been scouting Martes.

[austro]

Apparently the Jays have been scouting Martes.

Do the Jays have a LH reliever who's worth a shit?

[hostros7]

I don't see how the Astros and Jays are compatible trade partners given that they are separated by a game in the wild card race.


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[Navin R Johnson]

Is there a quick reference for which players are going to become rule 5 eligible?  Seems like the Astros have a bunch of guys at AAA, who are decent to good prospects, that have been with the org for a long time.  Are there some players that they will need to move or face losing them for nothing?

[BizidyDizidy]

Is Matt Moore really better than what we have?

Interesting that there's not a lot of blatant needs, unless you can get an ace (or a LHP if they are ready to bail on Sipp).

[MusicMan]

Is Matt Moore really better than what we have?

Interesting that there's not a lot of blatant needs, unless you can get an ace (or a LHP if they are ready to bail on Sipp).

There is a blatant need for another bat. Our "DH" production is barely better than a pitcher.

[JimR]

There is a blatant need for another bat. Our "DH" production is barely better than a pitcher.

there is a more blatant need for a #1 or #2 quality SP.

[BizidyDizidy]

Should we read anything into the face that they are keeping Bregman at short?

[juliogotay]

Should we read anything into the face that they are keeping Bregman at short?

Like it could be showcasing him for a deal? Who knows. I suspect Luhnow is and will consider all alternatives. I just hope they don't deal him. I really believe he will be a star player.

[pots]

there is a more blatant need for a #1 or #2 quality SP.

They have some weird ace long men in the pen thing going that has seemingly eliminated the need for top starters.  In June, the Astros gave up the second fewest runs in the majors and are 7th overall for the year.  No idea if this is a temporary result or if they have found a working formula.  I've never seen a team run 3 excellent long men before. 

[BudGirl]

I don't think Bregman gets traded.  There are a lot of other players, with talent, that could be moved before him. 

[pots]

Like it could be showcasing him for a deal? Who knows. I suspect Luhnow is and will consider all alternatives. I just hope they don't deal him. I really believe he will be a star player.

I'm trying to imagine his value right now, and it is pretty hard to fathom.  He was the #18 prospect coming into the year, got to be top 5 now

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Should we read anything into the face that they are keeping Bregman at short?

I don't know, but seeing as I'm an amateur psychologist, I bet that knowing Bregman is doing so well is a bit of motivation for Correra.

[JimR]

They have some weird ace long men in the pen thing going that has seemingly eliminated the need for top starters.  In June, the Astros gave up the second fewest runs in the majors and are 7th overall for the year.  No idea if this is a temporary result or if they have found a working formula.  I've never seen a team run 3 excellent long men before.

"eliminated the need for top starters"

crazy talk

[Navin R Johnson]

Should we read anything into the face that they are keeping Bregman at short?

No. 

Luhnow was just on with Matt Thomas on 790 AM.  The question came up and Luhnow stated they like to keep guys at their natural position when they promote them, thus AB is playing SS for the 1st few weeks.   They also talked about him moving to the OF, Luhnow is confident that AB can handle it, but no plans to play him in the OF this year.  In the future that is something they will look at.

[das]

there is a more blatant need for a #1 or #2 quality SP.

Especially if they make the post season. Especially x2 if it's a one game WC playoff. Right now, they don't match up well without that "ace". McCullers may get there by end of the season though as he continues to mature.

[juliogotay]

No. 

Luhnow was just on with Matt Thomas on 790 AM.  The question came up and Luhnow stated they like to keep guys at their natural position when they promote them, thus AB is playing SS for the 1st few weeks.   They also talked about him moving to the OF, Luhnow is confident that AB can handle it, but no plans to play him in the OF this year.  In the future that is something they will look at.

I have heard Luhnow say Bregman could be a good LFer. I was wondering "why not 3rd"? and am thinking he maintains visions of Moran at 3rd.

[MusicMan]

I have heard Luhnow say Bregman could be a good LFer. I was wondering "why not 3rd"? and am thinking he maintains visions of Moran at 3rd.

Or maybe he's just keeping his options open.

[Mike S.]

I still think Moran could move over to 1B with Reed becoming the full time DH.

[Navin R Johnson]

I have heard Luhnow say Bregman could be a good LFer. I was wondering "why not 3rd"? and am thinking he maintains visions of Moran at 3rd.

3rd is obviously where he will play if/when called up.  LF is only a maybe, in the future.  If he is on the big club, he is playing 3rd base.

[pots]

Currently, Valbueana, Gomez and Rasmus are not locked up for next year.  From that perspective you could see why Bregman might make sense in left next year.  It would all depend on who they keep/get for next year. 

[MusicMan]

I still think Moran could move over to 1B with Reed becoming the full time DH.

I have grave doubts about Moran hitting enough for a 1b.

[pots]

I have grave doubts about Moran hitting enough for a 1b.

I have doubt Moran can hit enough for a 3b.  He just seems to strike out too much for a guy that is going to have to rely on average and not slugging.  Still only 23 though. 

[Lefty]

3rd is obviously where he will play if/when called up.  LF is only a maybe, in the future.  If he is on the big club, he is playing 3rd base.

Not ideal for a rookie who's played in the field every day his whole life, but why not DH when Valbuena's at 3B, and 3B when Val sits?

[JimR]

here we go again with "hitting enough" for a defensive position. I will not get sucked in again.

61 Yankees did just fine with Boyer at 3rd (.224) because the CFer hit pretty well. it does not matter where the offense comes from!

[juliogotay]

I have doubt Moran can hit enough for a 3b

Who says he has to be a 20+ HR guy? If he can hit .280 with some doubles and BBs then he could contribute in this lineup. Maybe hit 2nd. He would clog up the basepaths but so do Valbuena and Marwin. With a SS and 2B hitting with power you can afford that type of player there.

[pots]

here we go again with "hitting enough" for a defensive position. I will not get sucked in again.

61 Yankees did just fine with Boyer at 3rd (.224) because the CFer hit pretty well. it does not matter where the offense comes from!

Moran is not considered a good defensive 3rd baseman

[Navin R Johnson]

Is Moran even an above average fielding 3rd baseman at the MLB level?  I have only seen him a hand few of time, seemed adequate, but not as good a fielder as Valbuena (who has played some really good 3rd as of late).

[homer]

I have grave doubts about Moran hitting enough for a 1b.

I have doubt Moran can hit enough for a 3b.  He just seems to strike out too much for a guy that is going to have to rely on average and not slugging.  Still only 23 though. 

I have doubts Moran can hit enough to stay in the majors.

[pots]

Moran brings one tool.  His ability to hit.  Last year he showed an increased walk rate and lower strike out rate at Corpus.  This year at Fresno he has reverted.  He really needs to become a contact machine.  Still only 23, has time to develop

[Reuben]

I have doubts Moran can hit enough to stay in the majors.

Exactly. Or how about, I have doubts he can hit well enough to make the starting lineup of the Astros?

[JimR]

Moran is not considered a good defensive 3rd baseman

You missed the point entirely.

[David in Jackson]

I still think Moran could move over to 1B with Reed becoming the full time DH.

I don't see how Moran has the bat for first.

Bregman has to be untouchable.

[JimR]

I don't see how Moran has the bat for first

Unreal

[Navin R Johnson]

Unreal

 I guess the point is that not every position player needs to hit?  I think the rest of us just think it isn't to difficult to find someone that can hit better than Moran.   I'd play Marwin everyday, he is a much better MLB player than Moran will likely ever be, both in the field and at the plate.

[Bench]

Unreal

Would "I don't think Colin Moran has the skill set to be an effective starter on a good baseball team" be better?

[JimR]

The point is the hitting can come from any position on the field. Eight position player starters plus DH. A team needs enough hitting to win. As someone pointed out, the hitting on this team is from 2B, SS, and RF. Would you say "Altuve hits too well to play 2B?"

To say "he does not hit well enough to play first base" is nonsensical. He may not hit well enough to be a regular.

[Navin R Johnson]

The point is the hitting can come from any position on the field. Eight position player starters plus DH. A team needs enough hitting to win. As someone pointed out, the hitting on this team is from 2B, SS, and RF. Would you say "Altuve hits too well to play 2B?"

To say "he does not hit well enough to play first base" is nonsensical. He may not hit well enough to be a regular.

Well that makes a bunch of sense now.  Where I was coming from is I dont see Moran being the #1 option at 1st/3rd base option anytime soon,  based on the current players the Astros have on the MLB/AAA roster.

[Bench]

Well that makes a bunch of sense now.  Where I was coming from is I dont see Moran being the #1 option at 1st/3rd base option anytime soon,  based on the current players the Astros have on the MLB/AAA roster.

The shorthand being that he doesn't hit well enough to play at any of the positions he's capable of playing at, which happens to be 1st/3rd.

[toddthebod]

I think that Moran eventually gets traded because Bregman will be the Astros thirdbaseman next year and for the foreseeable future.  I think Singleton eventually gets traded because he too has nowhere to play.

If I were the Astros, I'd let Valbuena, Castro, Feldman, and Gomez go next year.  Sign Rasmus for 2 years and sign Encarnacion to DH.  Tucker, Rasmus, Springer in the outfield.  Gattis, Reed, Altuve, Correa, Tucker around the infield.

[Nate Colbert]

Tucker, Rasmus, Springer in the outfield.  Gattis, Reed, Altuve, Correa, Tucker around the infield.

Damn, that Tucker guy is gonna be really busy.

[BudGirl]

Damn, that Tucker guy is gonna be really busy.

There are two of them in the minors.

[juliogotay]

There are two of them in the minors.

But one of them is no where near ready. Neither are IFers.

[Mr. Happy]

I think that Moran eventually gets traded because Bregman will be the Astros thirdbaseman next year and for the foreseeable future.  I think Singleton eventually gets traded because he too has nowhere to play.

If I were the Astros, I'd let Valbuena, Castro, Feldman, and Gomez go next year.  Sign Rasmus for 2 years and sign Encarnacion to DH.  Tucker, Rasmus, Springer in the outfield.  Gattis, Reed, Altuve, Correa, Tucker around the infield.

Tucker is an OF, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative. Encarnacion is going to get a big deal. For a DH? No thanks. I'd rather grow my own. As much as I hate Castro's bat (or, more properly, his lack thereof), he's been great with the pitching staff. I think that wee need him back next year.

[JimR]

Tucker is an OF, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative. Encarnacion is going to get a big deal. For a DH? No thanks. I'd rather grow my own. As much as I hate Castro's bat (or, more properly, his lack thereof), he's been great with the pitching staff. I think that wee need him back next year.

So you saved your snarkiness for Todd?

[Mr. Happy]

So you saved your snarkiness for Todd?

I merely pointed out the obvious. I started out by saying that he wrote was nonsense, but I toned that down-a bit of self-editing.

[juliogotay]

Tucker is an OF, but don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative. Encarnacion is going to get a big deal. For a DH? No thanks. I'd rather grow my own. As much as I hate Castro's bat (or, more properly, his lack thereof), he's been great with the pitching staff. I think that wee need him back next year.

I'm with you on Castro but I have to think the brass has written him off or they wouldn't have let him get to his walk-year.

[Mr. Happy]

I'm with you on Castro but I have to think the brass has written him off or they wouldn't have let him get to his walk-year.

We'll see. I didn't particularly care for them going to arb over $250,000. We'll have to see. I don't know who the other options might be via trade or free agency. I don't see much in the farm system at C right now.

[toddthebod]

Thanks Happy.  Not sure why I wrote Tucker a second time.  The last Tucker was supposed to be Bregman at third. 

As for Encarnacion, of course is he expensive.  Cause he is really good.  And what are the Astros saving money for?  Have you looked at next year's free agent class? 

Go out and get Encarnacion because the Astros don't have someone for DH who is ready for the majors.  Certainly not someone who can hit like Emcarnacion.

[doyce7]

Thanks Happy.  Not sure why I wrote Tucker a second time.  The last Tucker was supposed to be Bregman at third. 

As for Encarnacion, of course is he expensive.  Cause he is really good.  And what are the Astros saving money for?  Have you looked at next year's free agent class? 

Go out and get Encarnacion because the Astros don't have someone for DH who is ready for the majors.  Certainly not someone who can hit like Emcarnacion.

EE is a good hitter no doubt. That said, I don't want to get into the business of signing guys on the wrong side of 30 to big deals. He'll be what, 34 next season? It'll probably take a 4 or 5 year deal to get him too.

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[JimR]

I merely pointed out the obvious. I started out by saying that he wrote was nonsense, but I toned that down-a bit of self-editing.

Todd is a regular here

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Ken Rosenthal says the Astros have been scouting Hector Santiago.

[Nate Colbert]

At least part of this is nonsensical but hey it's Heyman:

"Carlos Gomez wouldn’t mind a trade, people around the team say. Not only would the possibility of a qualifying offer be completely removed, but it seems apparent Houston would be fine going with others in the outfield."

Link

[jbm]

I click on the link and see Sonny Gray, and think "sure, Gomez for Gray, yes!" 

Seriously, I'm not sure what one could get in return for him since presumably a contender would be the destination and they aren't likely to give up a good starter, which seems to be the greatest need.

Also, seems real odd to hear this talk at this point of time after the improvement of both the club and Gomez.

[toddthebod]

I have come to the conclusion that Marisnick is not a starting major league outfielder.  He's a 4th or 5th outfielder.

Gomez is gone next season (or maybe this season).  Who knows what will happen with Rasmus. 

If the Astros could find an outfielder who can actually hit the ball consistently, I would make that deal -- Carlos Gonzalez?  He is under contract through 2017.  If the Astros can make a deal for him, this would bridge the gap until Teoscar or Tucker (the younger) are ready.   CarGo's contract is $20 million for next year, but that's really not much more than what the Astros would have to pay to keep Rasmus and frankly he is a wayyyy better hitter than Rasmus. 

An outfield next year of Preston Tucker, Springer, and CarGo would be formidable. 

[Lefty]

I have come to the conclusion that Marisnick is not a starting major league outfielder.  He's a 4th or 5th outfielder.

No shit?

[toddthebod]

Apparently, the Astros haven't reached that conclusion.  Because they keep throwing him out there even though Tucker is hitting well in AAA.  The Astros could also play Marwin in left. 

[JimR]

Apparently, the Astros haven't reached that conclusion.  Because they keep throwing him out there even though Tucker is hitting well in AAA.  The Astros could also play Marwin in left.

Rasmus was unavailable for the latter part of the homestand. ear infection. they are playing Marisnick the way any team plays a 4th OFer.

[Reuben]

Plus, the Astros clearly value OF defense, and Tucker does not provide that. He would have to be quite the hitter for the Astros to commit to him in LF, I imagine.

[BlownRanger]

An outfield next year of Preston Tucker, Springer, and CarGo would be formidable.

Some of you guys see a much brighter future for P Tucker than I do.  I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see him ever hitting much at the big league level, and I certainly don't see him as part of a formidable outfield.

[mrpink]

Some of you guys see a much brighter future for P Tucker than I do.  I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see him ever hitting much at the big league level, and I certainly don't see him as part of a formidable outfield.

He was a league average hitter last year in part time play.  Since June 1st at OKC he's hit .331/.366/.617 in 133 ABs.  He just turned years old; given the chance to play everyday I think he'd do fine.  Maybe he's a DH though.

[Wynnable]

What about Bregman/Tucker in LF, Rasmus/Mrasnick in CF and Springer in RF for the remainder of this season.

GoGo gets moved for minor league talent.

Leave the 3B/1B platoon in place (Valbuena/Gonzales/Reed) this season with longer term decisions to be made based on
2nd half of 2016 play?

[MusicMan]

I'm not wild about throwing a guy with no experience at the position into a pennant race.

Rasmus/Marisnick in CF is also no better than Gomez in CF.

[JimR]

What about Bregman/Tucker in LF, Rasmus/Mrasnick in CF and Springer in RF for the remainder of this season.

GoGo gets moved for minor league talent.

Leave the 3B/1B platoon in place (Valbuena/Gonzales/Reed) this season with longer term decisions to be made based on
2nd half of 2016 play?

No. Bergman never played OF, and Tucker is not good. Leave the OF alone.

[doyce7]

What about Bregman/Tucker in LF, Rasmus/Mrasnick in CF and Springer in RF for the remainder of this season.

GoGo gets moved for minor league talent.

Leave the 3B/1B platoon in place (Valbuena/Gonzales/Reed) this season with longer term decisions to be made based on
2nd half of 2016 play?

Gomez is going nowhere until after the season. His trade value just isn't there and now he's actually playing better.

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[MusicMan]

No. Bergman never played OF, and Tucker is not good. Leave the OF alone.

I wouldn't mind acquiring a LF who can actually hit. But throwing those youngsters there isn't the answer.

[Reuben]

I wouldn't mind acquiring a LF who can actually hit. But throwing those youngsters there isn't the answer.

Who says Rasmus can't hit? Or are you talking about next year?

[MusicMan]

Who says Rasmus can't hit? Or are you talking about next year?

Now. He's been absolutely awful since
April, save for a brief hot streak in June.


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[das]

What about Bregman/Tucker in LF, Rasmus/Mrasnick in CF and Springer in RF for the remainder of this season.

GoGo gets moved for minor league talent.

Leave the 3B/1B platoon in place (Valbuena/Gonzales/Reed) this season with longer term decisions to be made based on
2nd half of 2016 play?

I wonder just how much higher the SP and RP ERAs would rise with that OF config.

[MusicMan]

The Padres just got the Red Sox #1 prospect for Drew Pomeranz.

If that's the market, it would take Altuve or Correa to get an ace.


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[JimR]

The Padres just got the Red Sox #1 prospect for Drew Pomeranz.

If that's the market, it would take Altuve or Correa to get an ace.


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Some sources are saying #4 prospect

[Navin R Johnson]

Some sources are saying #4 prospect

He is their 4th rated prospect (34th overall) on MLB's site.  Keith Law's just updated midseason prospect rankings had him at #14 in all of baseball.

[Navin R Johnson]

Here is what an A++ prospect gets you in return.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/17079081/drew-pomeranz-headed-boston-red-sox-trade-san-diego-padres

Pomeranz's value has been built almost entirely over the past three months. A first-round draft pick of the Cleveland Indians in 2010 and a faded prospect who has now been traded four times, he earned his first All-Star selection this season after posting a 2.47 ERA and allowing 67 hits and 41 walks in a career-high 102 innings over 17 starts for the Padres. He ranks second in the majors in both opponents' batting average (.184) and opponents' OPS (.555).

Before this season, Pomeranz bounced between the rotation and the bullpen for the Colorado Rockies and Oakland Athletics, posting a 4.60 ERA and allowing 240 hits and 106 walks in 228⅔ innings.

[hostros7]

So, basically, a Martes would get a team a Pomeranz? Of note, Pomeranz is arb eligible in 2017 and an FA in 2019. He's only making $1.35mm this season.


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[GreatBagwellsBeard]

So, basically, a Martes would get a team a Pomeranz? Of note, Pomeranz is arb eligible in 2017 and an FA in 2019. He's only making $1.35mm this season.


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And he's a lefty starter.  Similar numbers from a RHP would probably not be as dear.

[Dark Star]

Here is what an A++ prospect gets you in return.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/17079081/drew-pomeranz-headed-boston-red-sox-trade-san-diego-padres

Pomeranz's value has been built almost entirely over the past three months. A first-round draft pick of the Cleveland Indians in 2010 and a faded prospect who has now been traded four times, he earned his first All-Star selection this season after posting a 2.47 ERA and allowing 67 hits and 41 walks in a career-high 102 innings over 17 starts for the Padres. He ranks second in the majors in both opponents' batting average (.184) and opponents' OPS (.555).

Before this season, Pomeranz bounced between the rotation and the bullpen for the Colorado Rockies and Oakland Athletics, posting a 4.60 ERA and allowing 240 hits and 106 walks in 228⅔ innings.

Thank God for the cut fastball.

[Reuben]

According to Heyman, the Astros are making Feldman available in trade, and "some rival executives " think they'd be open to dealing Neshek and Fields. I guess dealing one of the former would open a spot for Hoyt.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Does Heyman have anything to say about what the Astros are looking for?

[Jacksonian]

According to Heyman, the Astros are making Feldman available in trade, and "some rival executives " think they'd be open to dealing Neshek and Fields. I guess dealing one of the former would open a spot for Hoyt.

I would think dealing any of those guys would mean they go to contenders.  They aren't prospects; they're now players.  You could probably get a couple of prospects that you could then turn around and deal for what you want on the big club.

[mrpink]

I'd be surprised if they dealt Fields at this point.  Even though he's been terrific at Fresno he can't have much present trade value.   

[Reuben]

I would think dealing any of those guys would mean they go to contenders.  They aren't prospects; they're now players.  You could probably get a couple of prospects that you could then turn around and deal for what you want on the big club.

Agreed. Maybe a B-grade low-level prospect or two, to shore up some depth or to flip.

Although I'm still having a hard time figuring out what the Astros are targeting to help the MLB roster.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Agreed. Maybe a B-grade low-level prospect or two, to shore up some depth or to flip.

Although I'm still having a hard time figuring out what the Astros are targeting to help the MLB roster.

Probably a LOOGY.  Sipp's been less than impressive.

[MusicMan]

Per Footer:

Guys on @MLBNetwork are predicting an Astros blockbuster deal to get someone of the ilk of Chris Sale or Sonny Gray.


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[JimR]

Per Footer:

Guys on @MLBNetwork are predicting an Astros blockbuster deal to get someone of the ilk of Chris Sale or Sonny Gray.


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Sale would be 1998 again.

[juliogotay]

Per Footer:

Guys on @MLBNetwork are predicting an Astros blockbuster deal to get someone of the ilk of Chris Sale or Sonny Gray.


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I think those guys pull stuff out of their ass.

[moriartp]

Sale would be 1998 again.

Plus three more years of the ace. It'd be hard to imagine a more exciting move for this team.

[MusicMan]

Martes, Musgrove, White, and Cameron. Who says no?


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[moriartp]

Martes, Musgrove, White, and Cameron. Who says no?


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Chicago. If not for Kershaw, Sale would be the best pitcher in MLB. He's under contract through 2019 at a very reasonable price. He's going to cost a fortune in prospects.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Chicago. If not for Kershaw, Sale would be the best pitcher in MLB. He's under contract through 2019 at a very reasonable price. He's going to cost a fortune in prospects.

Not sure I agree that that isn't a fortune in prospects. I wonder if the Astros having conceivably overpaid in the recent past hasn't skewed our perspective as fans regarding reasonable returns.

That said, I'd make that deal in a second. But I'm stupid. 

[MusicMan]

A different thought:

Would you give up McCullers to get Sale?


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[Reuben]

Sale would be 1998 again.

Chicago. If not for Kershaw, Sale would be the best pitcher in MLB. He's under contract through 2019 at a very reasonable price. He's going to cost a fortune in prospects.

I gotta quibble with these assessments a little here. RJ in 1998 was coming off an outstanding 3-year stretch (including injury-shortened 1996) where he went 43-6 with a 2.54 ERA, back when a 2.54 ERA was quite an achievement. Sale has had a nice career and he's still quite young, but I don't think he's Big Unit-level dominant. And compared to his peers, I think Arrieta, Strasburg, Fernandez, Greinke, the Mets staff, there's plenty of guys who you could make a good case as being better than Sale.

He is pretty awesome though. I'd take him.

[juliogotay]

A different thought:

Would you give up McCullers to get Sale?


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No. The net return isn't that great as McCullers alone wouldn't get it done.

[juliogotay]

Martes, Musgrove, White, and Cameron. Who says no?


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I'd have to do that. The ChiSox may say it isn't enough. If I  were them I would say Bregman has to be in the deal along with Martes and Musgrove.

[Jacksonian]

Per Footer:

Guys on @MLBNetwork are predicting an Astros blockbuster deal to get someone of the ilk of Chris Sale or Sonny Gray.


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Looking at teams at least 5 games out of the wildcard currently I see only 2 pitchers in the NL I'd like Luhnow to think about: Teheran and Greinke.  In the AL: Tanaka, Sale, and Archer.  Archer's stuff is still there, but he hasn't located his pitches consistently.  Still I'd like to have him on my team.

[moriartp]

A different thought:

Would you give up McCullers to get Sale?


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I would.

[BUWebguy]

I gotta quibble with these assessments a little here. RJ in 1998 was coming off an outstanding 3-year stretch (including injury-shortened 1996) where he went 43-6 with a 2.54 ERA, back when a 2.54 ERA was quite an achievement.

To be fair, Johnson was also 34 years old, and was 9-10 with an ERA of 4.33 with the Mariners at the time of the deal, with some wondering if he was over the hill.

[pots]

Under the assumption that 27 year old Sale's recent HR allowed and lowered strikeout rate are just a fluke, 3 1/2 years of Sale is much greater than 2 1/2 months of the Big Unit.  And it's not close in my mind.  Asking price will likely be McCullers and Bregman.  Whitesox will want to reload not rebuild if they decide to pack it in this year (which from all accounts they haven't tossed in the towel yet).

[pots]

Sale is an easy yes.

But what if you could pick up a rental who has a long track record, who has crushed lefties this year to the tune of 323/370/616 and overall  294/334/542.  Could just adequately play left and DH.  Probably only need to trade a B prospect.  Assuming the bastard hasn't put the Astros on his 15 team no trade list, would you dirty your soul for Beltran?

[MusicMan]

Under the assumption that 27 year old Sale's recent HR allowed and lowered strikeout rate are just a fluke

Not sure about the HR, but the strikeouts are down by design - he's trying to pitch more efficiently.

[MusicMan]

Sale is an easy yes.

But what if you could pick up a rental who has a long track record, who has crushed lefties this year to the tune of 323/370/616 and overall  294/334/542.  Could just adequately play left and DH.  Probably only need to trade a B prospect.  Assuming the bastard hasn't put the Astros on his 15 team no trade list, would you dirty your soul for Beltran?

Trading for him worked well the first time.

[JimR]

I gotta quibble with these assessments a little here. RJ in 1998 was coming off an outstanding 3-year stretch (including injury-shortened 1996) where he went 43-6 with a 2.54 ERA, back when a 2.54 ERA was quite an achievement. Sale has had a nice career and he's still quite young, but I don't think he's Big Unit-level dominant. And compared to his peers, I think Arrieta, Strasburg, Fernandez, Greinke, the Mets staff, there's plenty of guys who you could make a good case as being better than Sale.

He is pretty awesome though. I'd take him.

I'll take Sale. He is LH.

[Duman]

Former Astro Fernando Abad is pitching pretty well out of the pen for the Twins.  Might be a descent addition at a reasonable price for a LHP.  Not a big splash but could be a helpful piece. 

[Nate Colbert]

Former Astro Fernando Abad is pitching pretty well out of the pen for the Twins.  Might be a descent addition at a reasonable price for a LHP.  Not a big splash but could be a helpful piece.

Abad's probably the better choice, but as long as we're talking former Astros' lefties whose current team is in sell mode you could add Xavier Cedeno of the Rays.

[MusicMan]

Well, we need a lefty AND a closer, and there's this guy Andrew Miller in New York we tried to sign...

[JimR]

Well, we need a lefty AND a closer, and there's this guy Andrew Miller in New York we tried to sign...

and Chapman

[MusicMan]

and Chapman

No thanks.

[JimR]

No thanks.

should have known.

[pots]

Spankees are one game above 500 and 38 -29 since May 5th.  Currently riding a 3 game win streak against the Redsox and Orioles.  They could quickly become buyers if they win their next 2 games against the Orioles

[Reuben]

No thanks.

My feelings as well. Just because it's been a few months since he choked his girlfriend and shot his gun around doesn't mean he's not still an abhorrent piece of shit. I'd rather not have to watch him play for the Astros.

[MrKnuckleball]

It will be interesting to see who we pick up if anyone at all. Some are saying Chris Sale but Chicago is going to want quite a bit for him.

[Nate Colbert]

It will be interesting to see who we pick up if anyone at all. Some are saying Chris Sale but Chicago is going to want quite a bit for him.

Did you even bother to read the earlier posts in this thread?

[MrKnuckleball]

Did you even bother to read the earlier posts in this thread?

Yes.

[doyce7]

Did you even bother to read the earlier posts in this thread?

Reading is one thing, comprehending is another.

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[Fredia]

so that is the secret to this sigh. knowledge is power

[JimR]

My feelings as well. Just because it's been a few months since he choked his girlfriend and shot his gun around doesn't mean he's not still an abhorrent piece of shit. I'd rather not have to watch him play for the Astros.

Pardon me boys. I did not follow the legal blotter.

[MusicMan]

Pardon me boys. I did not follow the legal blotter.

We gotta get you on Twitter.


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[Jacksonian]

We gotta get you on Twitter.


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The last time Jim tweeted Darwin threw him off the island for being the better bird caller.

[JimR]

The last time Jim tweeted Darwin threw him off the island for being the better bird caller.

Nice. Old man jokes never get old.

[Wynnable]

Musgrove and Hoyt still look very promotable to me, as are Bregman, Tucker, White, Kemp and assumedly Gurriel. The more I look at our AAA and AA affiliates, the less I feel the need to trade for others stars. In fact, Astros may 'need' to move guys like Gomez and Valbuena and potentially Fiers/Feldman to make room for the kids below. Risky during a pennant chase, particularly since White, Reed and Moran have been less than good in their first big league tests, but its a risk I would be willing to take.

[BudGirl]

IMO, all you GMs out there need to leave Feldman alone.  He's a great fit on this team right now.  You loose him as long relief and who knows what happens to the bullpen.

[jbm]

IMO, all you GMs out there need to leave Feldman alone.  He's a great fit on this team right now.  You loose him as long relief and who knows what happens to the bullpen.

Agree, makes no sense to part with someone who is versatile and is performing so well. 

And if they are going to promote someone, Bregman is obviously #1 on that list (like today), but Hernandez should be an clear #2 (probably September) on the list.  Then Musgrove, Hoyt and Kemp.  These are the ones that can address areas of need, IMO.

[JimR]

Agree, makes no sense to part with someone who is versatile and is performing so well. 

And if they are going to promote someone, Bregman is obviously #1 on that list (like today), but Hernandez should be an clear #2 (probably September) on the list.  Then Musgrove, Hoyt and Kemp.  These are the ones that can address areas of need, IMO.

there is no ace pitcher in AAA. if there were, he would not be in AAA. if we have a chance at someone like Sale, get him. otherwise, I agree with your premise.

[JimR]

Sale is an easy yes.

But what if you could pick up a rental who has a long track record, who has crushed lefties this year to the tune of 323/370/616 and overall  294/334/542.  Could just adequately play left and DH.  Probably only need to trade a B prospect.  Assuming the bastard hasn't put the Astros on his 15 team no trade list, would you dirty your soul for Beltran?

I actually have thought about this, and yes.

[MusicMan]

Tyler White for Beltran. Who says no?


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[Navin R Johnson]

The Yankees.

[MusicMan]

The Yankees.

Ok. You're the Yankees - who do you think you can get?


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[Mr. Happy]

The Yankees clearly should be sellers because they lack the starting pitching to compete, but I don't think that they will be because their fans and the NY media won't stand for that. Therefore, I don't think that Beltran is going anywhere this season.

[MusicMan]

The Yankees clearly should be sellers because they lack the starting pitching to compete, but I don't think that they will be because their fans and the NY media won't stand for that. Therefore, I don't think that Beltran is going anywhere this season.

Well, we get three games here to help convince them otherwise.

[Navin R Johnson]

Ok. You're the Yankees - who do you think you can get?


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Considering what the Astros had to give up for Gomez, someone like Derek Fisher and a lower level prospect.   

Would be interesting to see what the Astros would do with the roster if the added Beltran.  I'd guess Jake would get sent down.

[pots]

Considering what the Astros had to give up for Gomez, someone like Derek Fisher and a lower level prospect.   

Would be interesting to see what the Astros would do with the roster if the added Beltran.  I'd guess Jake would get sent down.

I would guess Gomez is gone if Beltran was obtained.  Gomez might be gone anyways though.  Jake has stepped it up lately, and is clearly the better player than Gomez at this point. 

[Reuben]

Agree, makes no sense to part with someone who is versatile and is performing so well. 

And if they are going to promote someone, Bregman is obviously #1 on that list (like today), but Hernandez should be an clear #2 (probably September) on the list.  Then Musgrove, Hoyt and Kemp.  These are the ones that can address areas of need, IMO.

Interesting thought about  Teoscar Hernandez. He's had a terrific bounce-back year and has been even better in the 17 games he's played at AAA. Presumably the Astros are at least considering him as a potential starting OF for 2017 now. Given his previous issues though (K's and an overall rawness to his game) I was assuming he wouldn't get called up this year. I suppose he could be a useful bench guy in September.

[Navin R Johnson]

I would guess Gomez is gone if Beltran was obtained.  Gomez might be gone anyways though.  Jake has stepped it up lately, and is clearly the better player than Gomez at this point. 

I didn't realize just how bad Gomez was doing as of late.  In their last 31 ABs

Gomez, 097/125/194 8 Ks, 0 BB, 1HR, 4 RBI (all from 1 hit), 7 runs.   
Jake 323/344/387 9Ks, 0BB, 2 doubles, 1 RBI, 7 runs.

[jbm]

Interesting thought about  Teoscar Hernandez. He's had a terrific bounce-back year and has been even better in the 17 games he's played at AAA. Presumably the Astros are at least considering him as a potential starting OF for 2017 now. Given his previous issues though (K's and an overall rawness to his game) I was assuming he wouldn't get called up this year. I suppose he could be a useful bench guy in September.

I think he's turned a big corner; whether that translates to MLB is of course still uncertain, but if they don't go out and get someone AND Rasmus and Gomez continue to underwhelm, seems like a no-brainer (with callups available) to at least give him a look a few times. 

[pots]

Well there you go:

Another source says the #WhiteSox were offered a "king's ransom" for Sale in the last 48 hours and responded with a flat "no."

[Navin R Johnson]

Was  just coming over to post that.  I'd love to know what that Kings ransom consisted of.

[JimR]

come on. somebody come up with a rumor.

[Navin R Johnson]

Chris Archer for Preston Tucker,  Fiers, & AJ Reed.

[pots]

Chris Archer for Preston Tucker,  Fiers, & AJ Reed.

Sold!

[MrKnuckleball]

Chris Archer for Preston Tucker,  Fiers, & AJ Reed.

Where do I sign?

[Navin R Johnson]

Dammit, meant the younger Tucker.

[pots]

Dammit, meant the younger Tucker.

still sold.  On an extremely team friendly contract through 2021.  With buyouts on the last 2 years to make it even more team friendly. 

[geezerdonk]

Reed cannot be traded. He is a unanimous first ballot member of the Buffet Hall of Fame. He makes Carlos look like a POW.

[Mr. Happy]

Reed cannot be traded. He is a unanimous first ballot member of the Buffet Hall of Fame. He makes Carlos look like a POW.

Wow. And how long were you at work on this pithy and thought-provoking quip?

[JimR]

Wow. And how long were you at work on this pithy and thought-provoking quip?

Which also is bs.

[drew corleone]

Tyler White for Beltran. Who says no?

The Yankees already have a Tyler White named Greg Bird.

[pots]

According to MLBTR, Apparently the Whitesox are listening on Sale.  And the Rangers are supposedly making offers.  How convenient the Astros have a few high level prospects as well.  Luhnow versus Daniels. 

[Navin R Johnson]

Bregman, Reed and Martes was thrown out there on twitter.  No thanks.

[pots]

Bregman, Reed and Martes was thrown out there on twitter.  No thanks.

Put me in the Yes camp on that one

[chuck]

It's sort of too bad they called up Moran for his cup of coffee. Otherwise there might be teams that think he can play in the big leagues.

[jbm]

Bregman, Reed and Martes was thrown out there on twitter.  No thanks.

I'm never a fan of these trades, but if I'm the Sox, Bregman is a must and if I'm the Astros, Reed and Martes are pocket change.

[juliogotay]

I'm never a fan of these trades, but if I'm the Sox, Bregman is a must and if I'm the Astros, Reed and Martes are pocket change.

I agree. The ChiSox would be pummeled by their fans and local media if they didn't get a trading partners' top prospect, or two, for Sale. I would only do it if I could exclude Bregman and I think that won't get it done but I also don't see the Rangers having anyone of Bregman's potential to offer. Gallo? Big risk.

[MusicMan]

I agree. The ChiSox would be pummeled by their fans and local media if they didn't get a trading partners' top prospect, or two, for Sale. I would only do it if I could exclude Bregman and I think that won't get it done but I also don't see the Rangers having anyone of Bregman's potential to offer. Gallo? Big risk.

The Rangers could build an offer around Profar.

[Reuben]

It's sort of too bad they called up Moran for his cup of coffee. Otherwise there might be teams that think he can play in the big leagues.

I doubt any MLB scouts/execs put much stock in 19 ABs. However, they might put some stock in the very mediocre numbers he's put up in Fresno this year. That, combined with the oft-published feeling that the Astros like Moran a lot lot more than most other orgs do, makes me think he has very little trade value right now.

[austro]

The Rangers could build an offer around Profar.

I think that Profar is seriously overrated. If Daniels can get Sale in a trade with Profar as the centerpiece, it will be a Jedi-worthy mind trick.

[Reuben]

I think that Profar is seriously overrated. If Daniels can get Sale in a trade with Profar as the centerpiece, it will be a Jedi-worthy mind trick.

Yeah, it's hard to know what to make of Profar at this point, after all his injuries. You'd have to really trust your scouts to evaluate what he is now, as opposed to what he was 4 years ago when he was a healthy young prospect - and maybe overrated then, too.

In other words, a big risk.

[pots]

It would be Profar and Gallo for the Rangers.  We are talking 3 and a half years of Sale under a team friendly contract.  He's 27.   Arguably top 5, definitely one of the top 10 pitchers in the league.  If/whoever gets him, they will pay

[doyce7]

I'd be willing to part with anybody not named bregman.  And I might be willing to lose him as well...

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[pots]

Sale pitches tonight

[juliogotay]

It would be Profar and Gallo for the Rangers.  We are talking 3 and a half years of Sale under a team friendly contract.  He's 27.   Arguably top 5, definitely one of the top 10 pitchers in the league.  If/whoever gets him, they will pay

The Dallas paper reported this morning that Rangers have talked to two teams (ChiSox and TB) about five pitchers. Sale, Quintana, Archer, Odorizzi and Moore. Potential trade partners have all sought Gallo or Odor, or both of those, as a starting point.

[Reuben]

The Dallas paper reported this morning that Rangers have talked to two teams (ChiSox and TB) about five pitchers. Sale, Quintana, Archer, Odorizzi and Moore. Potential trade partners have all sought Gallo or Odor, or both of those, as a starting point.

Odor, not Profar?

[juliogotay]

Odor, not Profar?

That is what the DMN reported....not a typo.  BTW, I bet Sale is not dealt.

[pots]

That is what the DMN reported....not a typo.  BTW, I bet Sale is not dealt.

Their attitude has changed greatly this week.  They are contemplating a full rebuild.  Their farm is weak and they don't feel their current team can be patched without some major help they can't trade for.  They can drag it out for a few years and hover around or slightly above 500 or cash in some of their most coveted veterans for a better shot in a few years.  Tough call, but if they flip Sale, Quintana, Abreu, and Eaton, they could bring in 7 or 8 blue chip prospects along with several other solid prospects and build a new core. 

[jbm]

Hell, if Gallo is the, or even just a centerpiece, the Rangers do it in a second. He's not at all Bregman level, IMO and it's hard for me to see him as a centerpiece. He is more like Reed with both a tad more upside and downside.

[MusicMan]

Gallo might hit 50 HR with 300 K one season.


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[juliogotay]

Hell, if Gallo is the, or even just a centerpiece, the Rangers do it in a second. He's not at all Bregman level, IMO and it's hard for me to see him as a centerpiece. He is more like Reed with both a tad more upside and downside.

I agree.

[Jacksonian]

The Dallas paper reported this morning that Rangers have talked to two teams (ChiSox and TB) about five pitchers. Sale, Quintana, Archer, Odorizzi and Moore. Potential trade partners have all sought Gallo or Odor, or both of those, as a starting point.

Both would be the starting point for only Sale and Archer.  The others aren't worth that much.  The others maybe one of them but I wouldn't give up that much for those three.

[juliogotay]

Their attitude has changed greatly this week.  They are contemplating a full rebuild.  Their farm is weak and they don't feel their current team can be patched without some major help they can't trade for.  They can drag it out for a few years and hover around or slightly above 500 or cash in some of their most coveted veterans for a better shot in a few years.  Tough call, but if they flip Sale, Quintana, Abreu, and Eaton, they could bring in 7 or 8 blue chip prospects along with several other solid prospects and build a new core.

How about Quintana for Houston? Not for Bregman of course but the Astros just don't have much in the way of LH starting pitching in the system and he is in his prime. Maybe Martes or Musgrove and Fisher? Too much?  He's signed through 2018 with club options for the two years following. Never had an ERA over 3.5 for a season.

[Navin R Johnson]

Weren't there a bunch of questions about Sale's ability to stay healthy long term when he was drafted?   Obviously that hasnt been an issue yet....

[austro]

Weren't there a bunch of questions about Sale's ability to stay healthy long term when he was drafted?   Obviously that hasnt been an issue yet....

His performance over the last 10 games is worrying.

I'm watching Seattle-Toronto right now, and the guy I'd like to have is Iwakuma. That guy knows how to pitch. Not that there's probably any way to pry him loose.

[pots]

chisox said to seek 5 top prospects for sale. rivals do not blame them & 1 said "they will get it!"

Hmm so Bregman, Reed, Martes, Daz Cameron and Moran.  Boy that guts the farm.  You'd be left with K. Tucker, Gurriel, Whitley, Paulino, Musgrove, Fisher, Abreu,  Davis, etc.

[juliogotay]

Weren't there a bunch of questions about Sale's ability to stay healthy long term when he was drafted?   Obviously that hasnt been an issue yet....

Which is why I get severe indigestion about trading Bregman for any pitcher.

[Navin R Johnson]

Which is why I get severe indigestion about trading Bregman for any pitcher.

That is where I am at.  If this was Altuve's last year and near the end of Correa/Springer's contract and we wanted 1 more push for a WS, sure.  But I don't want to gut the farm right now.   Astros seem to be in a good position to content for the next 5 years, I don't want to gamble that on 1 player.

[pots]

That is where I am at.  If this was Altuve's last year and near the end of Correa/Springer's contract and we wanted 1 more push for a WS, sure.  But I don't want to gut the farm right now.   Astros seem to be in a good position to content for the next 5 years, I don't want to gamble that on 1 player.

Sale would become part of the core for this and 3 more years.

[Navin R Johnson]

Sale would become part of the core for this and 3 more years.

And hopefully play in 90 regular season games and a handful of playoff games, in 3 years.   For purchase price, I'd rather get more bullpen help at 1/4 the cost and have starters go 6 and turn it over to a lock down pen.

[DVauthrin]

That is where I am at.  If this was Altuve's last year and near the end of Correa/Springer's contract and we wanted 1 more push for a WS, sure.  But I don't want to gut the farm right now.   Astros seem to be in a good position to content for the next 5 years, I don't want to gamble that on 1 player.

If you have a chance to trade for a true #1 starter that is 27 and under team control for the next 3 1/2 seasons at an incredibly team friendly salary, you do it. 

At a minimum, the Astros have to drive the price up to keep him out of Texas.  Don't want to see Sale, Hamels and Darvish in the same rotation. 

[austro]

At a minimum, the Astros have to drive the price up to keep him out of Texas.  Don't want to see Sale, Hamels and Darvish in the same rotation. 

I'm not sure that I wouldn't mind seeing Texas bankrupt themselves to put those three in the same rotation. Injuries happen, and if you've put all of your eggs in the basket that sustains the injury, you've got a real problem.

[Nate Colbert]

Having made no real headway in conversations with the Chicago White Sox, the Rangers have turned their primary trade focus back to Tampa Bay, according to a major league source.

Link

[JimR]

If you can get Sale, you get him.

[Navin R Johnson]

If you can get Sale, you get him.

What is too much in your opinion?

[MusicMan]

Sale has been scratched from tonight's start.

#itshappening


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[Navin R Johnson]

Is he injured or traded or both?

[JimR]

What is too much in your opinion?

Sale scratched from his start tonight. We may soon see.

[DVauthrin]

Sale has been scratched from tonight's start.

#itshappening


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Report is he was scratched due to illness (cold/flu) but it certaintly seems fishy. 

[pots]

Report is he was scratched due to illness (cold/flu) but it certaintly seems fishy.

Especially should Bregman come down with the same cold...

[pots]

Chris Sale, scratched by #WhiteSox today, is not believed to be ill, according to two sources.


Chris Sale involved in a "clubhouse incident before the game," team says. #WhiteSox


And getting weirder:
More on Chris Sale from #WhiteSox: "The incident, which was non-physical in nature, currently is under further investigation by the club."

[Jacksonian]

What kind of non-physical incident in the clubhouse is so bad that it gets your ass sent back home?

[Lefty]

What kind of non-physical incident in the clubhouse is so bad that it gets your ass sent back home?

Did Ken Williams visit the clubhouse?

[pots]

Official notice:  Investigation?

[Reuben]

Official notice:  Investigation?

Was he hacking into Ground Control too?

[MRaup]

We're having a fire!... Sale.

[pots]

The Sale incident began with something "silly" that mushroomed into a bigger argument, says a source. #Whitesox

[MusicMan]

Footer retweet:

Not a joke: Source says Sale blowup was because he didn't want to wear throwbacks, so he cut the jerseys up so no one could wear them.


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[jbm]

My imagination never crossed that possibility.

[austro]

Footer retweet:

Not a joke: Source says Sale blowup was because he didn't want to wear throwbacks, so he cut the jerseys up so no one could wear them.


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Is this the kind of guy you want in your clubhouse?

[Fredia]

imagine how much that stunt cost

[MusicMan]

Is this the kind of guy you want in your clubhouse?

If he's added a cutter, sure.


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[MusicMan]

Footer retweet:

Not a joke: Source says Sale blowup was because he didn't want to wear throwbacks, so he cut the jerseys up so no one could wear them.


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Rosenthal:

Source: "A little larger than that but essentially true."


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[BizidyDizidy]

Supposedly he finds them uncomfortable and didn't want to wear for his start

[Reuben]

If he's added a cutter, sure.


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I see what you did there.

I thought the starting pitcher got to choose that night's uniforms anyway? Or is that just the Astros?

[moriartp]

Incredible. This is my favorite baseball story of 2016.

[Duman]

Does this display of attitude and anger hurt his stock any?

[Uncle Charlie]

Does this display of attitude and anger hurt his stock any?

It certainly isn't going to help,

[juliogotay]

Today's Dallas News is reporting that Rangers have moved on from dealing with ChiSox and continue conversations with TB for pitching. They write that TB is insisting on Gallo being included and that the Rangers will only include Gallo in a deal for Archer but not Moore or Odorizzi.
There just isn't much available pitching out there that looks, to me, like a difference-maker.

[Reuben]

Today's Dallas News is reporting that Rangers have moved on from dealing with ChiSox and continue conversations with TB for pitching. They write that TB is insisting on Gallo being included and that the Rangers will only include Gallo in a deal for Archer but not Moore or Odorizzi.
There just isn't much available pitching out there that looks, to me, like a difference-maker.

And now Heyman is reporting that the Astros are one of several teams interested in Andrew Cashner... Cashner is a FA at the end of the season, and basically has pitched like Mike Fiers this year, and last year.

Like you say... not much out there that looks like a difference-maker.

[Bench]

Incredible. This is my favorite baseball story of 2016.

It is absolutely insane. I can't wait to hear more details. Were the jerseys stacked in a pile or did he go from locker to locker taking them down and ripping them apart? How long did it take? What type of knife did he use and where did he get it from? What was everyone else doing at this time? It is so fucking nuts. I love it.

[Bench]

Sale has been suspended for 5 games (Saturday through Wednesday).

[das]

And now Heyman is reporting that the Astros are one of several teams interested in Andrew Cashner... Cashner is a FA at the end of the season, and basically has pitched like Mike Fiers this year, and last year.

Like you say... not much out there that looks like a difference-maker.

This make little sense, weird. Last thing the team needs is another high 4.x ERA pitcher.  It's not like he's been trending better or anything. He's been amazingly consistent through this year.

[MusicMan]

This make little sense, weird. Last thing the team needs is another high 4.x ERA pitcher.  It's not like he's been trending better or anything. He's been amazingly consistent through this year.

It's Heyman.  I could go on Twitter and "report" with equal validity.

[Navin R Johnson]

"Cubs close to acquiring Aroldis Chapman, pending an extension, for prospect Gleyber Torres. Clubs haven’t confirmed. http://atmlb.com/2aqpUvx "

Torres is the Cubs #1 prospect and #24 prospect overall.

[Jacksonian]

If Luhnow tells Williams now to look at anyone he has not on the 25 man roster and tell me if there's a deal we can make for Sale, do you see one if you're Williams?

[MusicMan]

If Luhnow tells Williams now to look at anyone he has not on the 25 man roster and tell me if there's a deal we can make for Sale, do you see one if you're Williams?

No. If I'm Williams, it has to start with Bregman or McCullers.


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[moriartp]

With Reed in AAA, I think it would only just be possible. I tried to come up with a realistic package without Reed and I just couldn't.

[austro]

With Reed in AAA, I think it would only just be possible. I tried to come up with a realistic package without Reed and I just couldn't.

I'd just as soon that they hold on to Reed. I could see him developing into a Thome type player, maybe a bit less power but a bit higher average. And I really don't want to see them let go of Bregman.

[Jacksonian]

No. If I'm Williams, it has to start with Bregman or McCullers.


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How about the Rays for Archer?

[hostros7]

No. If I'm Williams, it has to start with Bregman or McCullers.


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If I were the GM, I would hold back McCullers. He's young, cheap, and a slight tightening of the controls would make him a bonafide stud. Also, it's more dilutive to the overall quality of the pitching staff to deal him. The team needs an ace, Keuchel, and McCullers to have a shot at a pennant.

[jbm]

Seriously, Reed as a centerpiece for someone like Sale?  A one dimensional player whose one dimension is still uncertain. 

[BizidyDizidy]

Don't see the point if we have to give up McCullers.

[moriartp]

Seriously, Reed as a centerpiece for someone like Sale?

Yes.

[Jacksonian]

I'm wading into Todd's territory here but how about something big like:

Quintana and Jose Abreu for

Reed, Martes, Tucker or Cameron, Fisher, Rodgers, and Fiers?

Quintana and Abreu are both signed through at least 2019.

[Reuben]

 Quintana is a solid, consistent, above-average SP. He's having a great year. I think it depends a lot on whether you think he's unlocked something, or just having a career year.

Abreu doesn't interest me that much. He's basically a DH whose hitting numbers have dropped significantly since his rookie year. Maybe the league found some holes in his swing.

To me, Reed or Martes plus one or two of the other prospects you named would be fair for Quintana. I wouldn't give up both.

[juliogotay]

If I were the GM, I would hold back McCullers. He's young, cheap, and a slight tightening of the controls would make him a bonafide stud. Also, it's more dilutive to the overall quality of the pitching staff to deal him. The team needs an ace, Keuchel, and McCullers to have a shot at a pennant.

Luhnow said yesterday that he would be comfortable with McCullers on the mound for a one-game Wild-Card game.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

McCullers is going to be Roger Clemens in two years.

[moriartp]

The Cubs are reportedly sending their top prospect (Torres) plus others to the Yankees for 2+ months of Chapman. Makes the trade for 5 years of Giles look like a steal for Houston.

[pots]

The Cubs are reportedly sending their top prospect (Torres) plus others to the Yankees for 2+ months of Chapman. Makes the trade for 5 years of Giles look like a steal for Houston.

Also makes the Yankee pickup of Chapman a huge steal.  Reds screwed up there

[MusicMan]

How about the Rays for Archer?

I'm willing to discuss anyone in the minors for Archer, but I don't know how the Rays view him.  I wouldn't give up half as much as I would for Sale.

[MusicMan]

Also makes the Yankee pickup of Chapman a huge steal.  Reds screwed up there

So the Yankees benefit by swooping in and buying low on a piece of shit.  Great.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

The Cubs are reportedly sending their top prospect (Torres) plus others to the Yankees for 2+ months of Chapman. Makes the trade for 5 years of Giles look like a steal for Houston.

While this may yet prove true in the fullness of time, Giles's performance vs. Velasquez's does not as of yet justify hanging a larceny charge on anyone (except possibly the other way around). 

[pots]

I'd like to see the them make a run at Wade Davis if no top starters can be had

[JimR]

While this may yet prove true in the fullness of time, Giles's performance vs. Velasquez's does not as of yet justify hanging a larceny charge on anyone (except possibly the other way around).

No to the final phrase.

[Jacksonian]

And now there's a report that the Rangers are asking about Velasquez.

[jbm]

And now there's a report that the Rangers are asking about Velasquez.

Our Velasquez, I mean the Phillies?  Why would they trade him; isn't that the type of player you keep for your rebuild?

Fuck the Rangers by the way.  Heard Frisco and the Hooks got into it yesterday.  Training em young to hate the Rangers. 

[Jacksonian]

If they don't want to pay the price or can't pay the price for a top starter who are the second level starting pitchers worth having to replace Fiers?  Moore and Odorizzi from Tampa come to mind.

[MusicMan]

I'd like to see the them make a run at Wade Davis if no top starters can be had

Stark reports the Royals are seeking more than the Yankees got for Chapman. Which makes sense.


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[moriartp]

Hellickson is having a good year for Philadelphia, and he's a FA after the season. He's gotta be available.

[Jacksonian]

Hellickson is having a good year for Philadelphia, and he's a FA after the season. He's gotta be available.

Marlins are apparently hot after him.

[hostros7]

Rich Hill is clearly available. A's and Astros have an established track record of midseason deals for aging pitchers set to become FAs after the season. He might represent the best value available to add for the remainder of the season considering likely lower cost in terms of prospects.

Given that the Astros are in the early part of their competitive window, I would prefer acquiring a controlled stud pitcher (sale, archer) if the cost isn't obscene, especially considering that the FA pitcher market this offseason is very weak. I wouldn't feel the urgency to overpay though, which to me is any large package that also includes Bregman. Guys currently in the MiLB can make up a pretty strong package.




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[DVauthrin]

Rich Hill is clearly available. A's and Astros have an established track record of midseason deals for aging pitchers set to become FAs after the season. He might represent the best value available to add for the remainder of the season considering likely lower cost in terms of prospects.

Given that the Astros are in the early part of their competitive window, I would prefer acquiring a controlled stud pitcher (sale, archer) if the cost isn't obscene, especially considering that the FA pitcher market this offseason is very weak. I wouldn't feel the urgency to overpay though, which to me is any large package that also includes Bregman. Guys currently in the MiLB can make up a pretty strong package.




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Rich Hill is having a nice year, but he's not a difference maker in October.  I'd rather the Astros go hard after Andrew Miller, Wade Davis or like you mentioned Sale or Archer.  If I'm trading for an Oakland SP it's Sonny Gray as a reclamation project.  And any trade with the A's better bring Danny Valencia back, if for no other reason than he kills Astro pitching.

[Jacksonian]

Stark reports the Royals are seeking more than the Yankees got for Chapman. Which makes sense.


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For a 1/2 season rental on Chapman the Cubs gave up approximately the Astros equivalent of Martes, Peacock, Fisher, and Martin.

[MusicMan]

For a 1/2 season rental on Chapman the Cubs gave up approximately the Astros equivalent of Martes, Peacock, Fisher, and Martin.

Yeah, no thanks.


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[Navin R Johnson]

I'm most interested in getting Beltran back for one more go.  You'd think the price wouldn't be outrageous.

Springer CF
Bregman 3B
Altuve 2B
Correa SS
Beltran RF
Valbuena 1st
Gurriel DH
Tucker/Rasmus/Marisnick LF
Gattis/Castro C

[Bench]

Sale has been suspended for 5 games (Saturday through Wednesday).

Sale quasi-apologizes: “Do I regret standing up for what I believe in? Absolutely not."

He sounds like the kind of guy who would complain that someone who disagrees with him is violating his free speech.

[Jacksonian]

I'm most interested in getting Beltran back for one more go.  You'd think the price wouldn't be outrageous.

Springer CF
Bregman 3B
Altuve 2B
Correa SS
Beltran RF
Valbuena 1st
Gurriel DH
Tucker/Rasmus/Marisnick LF
Gattis/Castro C

I've seen nothing to indicate they are considering benching or releasing Gomez.

Gurriel WILL play in the field.  They've made that clear.

They've said nothing about Gattis being removed from DH duties that I know of.

Right now I'm thinking I'd rather they stand pat and make no trade.

[Navin R Johnson]

I've seen nothing to indicate they are considering benching or releasing Gomez.

Gurriel WILL play in the field.  They've made that clear.

They've said nothing about Gattis being removed from DH duties that I know of.

Right now I'm thinking I'd rather they stand pat and make no trade.

AJ was on 790 this morning.  Said there are some players that the next few weeks are critical, he said there are players that have some reality checks coming soon.   He is talking about Gomez/Rasmus.   He specifically mentioned them and the impending arrival of Gurriel.

Gurriel is going to play wherever makes the most sense, they have been clear on that.  If he is a better option at 3rd/1st than Bregman/Valbuena he will play there, if not....  I have never seen him play before, so I can't comment on his defense.   AJ said Gurriel like anyone else will have to earn his spot.

As for Beltran, I wouldn't give up any of the top 5-8 prospects for a 40 year old 3 month rental, but if they were interested in the Moran/JD Davis types I think it would be worth it.

[Reuben]

I've seen nothing to indicate they are considering benching or releasing Gomez.

Gurriel WILL play in the field.  They've made that clear.

They've said nothing about Gattis being removed from DH duties that I know of.

Right now I'm thinking I'd rather they stand pat and make no trade.

Gurriel playing LF or 3B I agree on. Gomez I doubt they'll release, but I could see them cutting his playing time more if he continues to struggle. Same with Gattis. Why would they announce that they're planning to reduce his DH time? I'm sure they're considering it though. They're competing to make the playoffs. The minute they believe Reed or Tucker or whoever gives them a better chance to win, Gattis will be benched.

[juliogotay]

Gurriel playing LF or 3B I agree on. Gomez I doubt they'll release, but I could see them cutting his playing time more if he continues to struggle. Same with Gattis. Why would they announce that they're planning to reduce his DH time? I'm sure they're considering it though. They're competing to make the playoffs. The minute they believe Reed or Tucker or whoever gives them a better chance to win, Gattis will be benched.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Gattis' catching time increase.

[Jacksonian]

AJ was on 790 this morning.  Said there are some players that the next few weeks are critical, he said there are players that have some reality checks coming soon.   He is talking about Gomez/Rasmus.   He specifically mentioned them and the impending arrival of Gurriel.

Gurriel is going to play wherever makes the most sense, they have been clear on that.  If he is a better option at 3rd/1st than Bregman/Valbuena he will play there, if not....  I have never seen him play before, so I can't comment on his defense.   AJ said Gurriel like anyone else will have to earn his spot.

As for Beltran, I wouldn't give up any of the top 5-8 prospects for a 40 year old 3 month rental, but if they were interested in the Moran/JD Davis types I think it would be worth it.

Interesting.  None of that has been translated to print yet.  I'll be curious to see followups later about it.

Gurriel has a lot of playing time at 2b, 3b, and LF under his belt.  He's supposedly no less than competent at all three.  So, I'd expect him out there.  And as to his spot, you don't sign a guy his age to that contract and have him earn his spot.  He'll get his spot and then earn it as he goes.

I also wouldn't lose sight of the possibility that they call up Hernandez if Bregman proves he can hit rather than deal for a bat.

And now that I've dug around further a lower level deal might be necessary anyway.  It looks like there might be more minor leaguers that Luhnow values eligible for this years rule 5 draft than there would be spots on the 40-man.  Dealing a couple of guys on the 40-man or those rule 5 eligible would get them something rather than nothing out of them.

[Jacksonian]

Gurriel playing LF or 3B I agree on. Gomez I doubt they'll release, but I could see them cutting his playing time more if he continues to struggle. Same with Gattis. Why would they announce that they're planning to reduce his DH time? I'm sure they're considering it though. They're competing to make the playoffs. The minute they believe Reed or Tucker or whoever gives them a better chance to win, Gattis will be benched.

Whatever happens I doubt they screw with the lineup too much.  They have the best record in baseball since May 1.

[jbm]

And now that I've dug around further a lower level deal might be necessary anyway.  It looks like there might be more minor leaguers that Luhnow values eligible for this years rule 5 draft than there would be spots on the 40-man.  Dealing a couple of guys on the 40-man or those rule 5 eligible would get them something rather than nothing out of them.

I agree here.  Packaging some of those guys for some usable starter who is signed for a couple of years would make sense.

[AstroNut]

Hope to see Gattis more at the catcher position...and Gomez on the bench or on a jet headed somewhere else.

[Navin R Johnson]

Interesting.  None of that has been translated to print yet.  I'll be curious to see followups later about it.

Gurriel has a lot of playing time at 2b, 3b, and LF under his belt.  He's supposedly no less than competent at all three.  So, I'd expect him out there.  And as to his spot, you don't sign a guy his age to that contract and have him earn his spot.  He'll get his spot and then earn it as he goes.

I also wouldn't lose sight of the possibility that they call up Hernandez if Bregman proves he can hit rather than deal for a bat.

And now that I've dug around further a lower level deal might be necessary anyway.  It looks like there might be more minor leaguers that Luhnow values eligible for this years rule 5 draft than there would be spots on the 40-man.  Dealing a couple of guys on the 40-man or those rule 5 eligible would get them something rather than nothing out of them.

Here is a link to AJ's interview if you are interested. Relevant conversation starts at 5:30
http://sports790.iheart.com/onair/the-proper-gentlemen-of-sports-52356/aj-hinch-these-guys-are-gonna-14944500/


I agree that Gurriel is going to play, but I don't think it is out of the question that he could DH.

[DVauthrin]

Here is a link to AJ's interview if you are interested. Relevant conversation starts at 5:30
http://sports790.iheart.com/onair/the-proper-gentlemen-of-sports-52356/aj-hinch-these-guys-are-gonna-14944500/


I agree that Gurriel is going to play, but I don't think it is out of the question that he could DH.

Provided Gurriel and Bregman solidify two lineup spots, I can see the Astros platooning Gomez and Rasmus.

[Jacksonian]

Here is a link to AJ's interview if you are interested. Relevant conversation starts at 5:30
http://sports790.iheart.com/onair/the-proper-gentlemen-of-sports-52356/aj-hinch-these-guys-are-gonna-14944500/


I agree that Gurriel is going to play, but I don't think it is out of the question that he could DH.

That was good.  Using Tucker to send a message to Rasmus is pretty cold blooded, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Hearing that it sounded like Gattis does just enough, just often enough, to keep is bat in the order.

I think Gurriel will DH the way Springer and Altuve DH.

[BudGirl]

That was good.  Using Tucker to send a message to Rasmus is pretty cold blooded, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Hearing that it sounded like Gattis does just enough, just often enough, to keep is bat in the order.

I think Gurriel will DH the way Springer and Altuve DH.

Gattis could just become a backup catcher and not DH.

[VirtualBob]

blah blah blah ...

Right now I'm thinking I'd rather they stand pat and make no trade.

[VirtualBob]

Whatever happens I doubt they screw with the lineup too much.  They have the best record in baseball since May 1.

Agree again.

[juliogotay]

I'd like to see the them make a run at Wade Davis if no top starters can be had

I just heard that Davis, Cain, Moustakas and Hosmer all have expiring contracts after next season. Wow, that team is going to look different in a couple of years. Also, KC says they want to keep it together during their window-of-opportunity which means Davis is not being shopped.

[juliogotay]

Anybody hearing anything about the Astros and Rich Hill? Saw something on another board but I don't consider it credible. I also wouldn't discount it.
Supposedly sending a Tucker (but the poster wasn't clear which one) and a top AA arm. I really hope they aren't doing that.

[Jacksonian]

Anybody hearing anything about the Astros and Rich Hill? Saw something on another board but I don't consider it credible. I also wouldn't discount it.
Supposedly sending a Tucker (but the poster wasn't clear which one) and a top AA arm. I really hope they aren't doing that.

It's not on mlbtraderumors or any tweets I can find.

[jaklewein]

AJ was on 790 this morning.  Said there are some players that the next few weeks are critical, he said there are players that have some reality checks coming soon.   He is talking about Gomez/Rasmus.   He specifically mentioned them and the impending arrival of Gurriel.

Gurriel is going to play wherever makes the most sense, they have been clear on that.  If he is a better option at 3rd/1st than Bregman/Valbuena he will play there, if not....  I have never seen him play before, so I can't comment on his defense.   AJ said Gurriel like anyone else will have to earn his spot.

As for Beltran, I wouldn't give up any of the top 5-8 prospects for a 40 year old 3 month rental, but if they were interested in the Moran/JD Davis types I think it would be worth it.

RE:  Rasmus -- valid or not, I just keep thinking about how well he played in the playoffs last season.  Then I went over to baseball reference to see if he had any other post season experience prior to last season.  He played in the 2009 NLDS with STL...yes that was 7 years ago and he was 22.  Yes it was only 11 PAs, but he registered the following slash during that series:  .444/.545./.778   

Total post season slash for post season career (last season included):  .423/.571/1.038  Only 35 PAs, but an OPS of 1.610 is ridiculous.

If I'm Hinch, I want that option on my post season roster.

[MusicMan]

Jeff Passan's notes this morning indicated the probability of the Sox trading Sale as "between 0 percent and 0 percent".


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[JimR]

so, sports fans, what will Luhnow do?

[Mr. Happy]

so, sports fans, what will Luhnow do?

I'm okay with standing pat with what we've got. There's just not top-of-the-line pitching available. The only one I'd want is Archer, and that's based on his stuff and age and not his season performance thus far.

[DVauthrin]

so, sports fans, what will Luhnow do?

I think he probably gets a bat to cover for the injuries to Valbuena and Gomez until Gurriel arrives, and perhaps another left handed reliever since Sipp has been very erratic this season.

[pots]

Apparently the Royals are willing to take a significant reduction in prospects for Wade Davis if you are willing to take Ian Kennedy off their hands.  The Royals tremendously backfilled his contract.  Paying only 7.5 million of the 5 year 70 million this year.  Plus he has a weird opt out clause after 2017.  Where the player can choose to take a 6 million dollar opt out.  Is that normal that a player gets paid to walk away?  Not that he will take that opt out anyways as he is due 49.5 million in years 2018-2020. 

[Jacksonian]

so, sports fans, what will Luhnow do?

What do they need?  They have arguably the best bullpen in the AL.  They have the best record in baseball since May 1.  They have hitters and more coming (Bregman and Gurriel).  Keuchel has been back to last year's form.  McHugh has been good lately.  McCullers has too.  Fister's been a good 4/5 starter.  They could deal for a 4 starter to replace Fiers but why not give one of the major league ready kids a try?  It's a sellers market right now for just about everything.

[Navin R Johnson]

OF/DH could use an upgrade.   I'd think those would be the cheapest positions to upgrade too.

[Jacksonian]

OF/DH could use an upgrade.   I'd think those would be the cheapest positions to upgrade too.

Do you want Jay Bruce?

[moriartp]

Charlie Blackmon?

[Navin R Johnson]

Do you want Jay Bruce?

He or Beltran, if available at a reasonable price seem like logical options.

[austro]

He or Beltran, if available at a reasonable price seem like logical options.

It's the whole "reasonable price" part of things that worries me. Although, as somebody else pointed out the other day, we've probably got more decent prospects than can be protected on the 40-man roster, so maybe you just have to roll the dice and use one of them.

[MusicMan]

I was down with SI's suggestion of acquiring Beltran for a low prospect until they classified Feliz as such a prospect.


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[Reuben]

The Fish seem to have paid a high price for Cashner. This is a big-time sellers' market. Hell, maybe the Astros should see what they can get for Fiers.

[BizidyDizidy]

Cashner and Colin Rea to the Marlins for Josh Naylor (19 y.o. 1B, first round pick last year) and our old friend Jarred Cosart.

[jbm]

I thought about Cosart recently after seeing a AAA box score where he threw.  Not surprised that he hasn't made it at the MLB level as a starter, but sort of surprised that the Marlins didn't at least try him as a reliever before ditching him.

[Jacksonian]

Hell, maybe the Astros should see what they can get for Fiers.

I was beginning to wonder about this too.

[homer]

The Fish seem to have paid a high price for Cashner. This is a big-time sellers' market. Hell, maybe the Astros should see what they can get for Fiers.

Staple Gomez to him and try to forget it ever happened.

[BizidyDizidy]

Brewers beat writer reporting Brewers may look to bundle Lucroy with a reliever. Doesn't look like there is a good lefty fit though.

[Reuben]

Brewers beat writer reporting Brewers may look to bundle Lucroy with a reliever. Doesn't look like there is a good lefty fit though.

Will Smith is a LH RP oft-mentioned in trade rumors.

[pots]

Last time the Brewers bundled a pitcher with a position player to justify the high price in prospects was fantastic. They should do that again

[pots]

Gomez might be an interesting trade piece in a Beltran trade.  Yankees are trying not to fully mail it in.  Gomez could be a candidate for a change of scenery.  Gomez's extra flair just seems like a better fit in New York anyways

[BizidyDizidy]

Will Smith is a LH RP oft-mentioned in trade rumors.

Looked at that - he's got 4 more years of club control, so wasn't sure if they'd want to move him.

[Waldo]

Gomez might be an interesting trade piece in a Beltran trade.  Yankees are trying not to fully mail it in.  Gomez could be a candidate for a change of scenery.  Gomez's extra flair just seems like a better fit in New York anyways

This needs to happen only because humanity needs Gomez and Brian McCann on the same team.

[DVauthrin]

Do you want Jay Bruce?

With him having a reasonable $13 million club option for 2017, absolutely, if the price is right.

[Jacksonian]

If they trade for a lefty reliever who gets kicked out of the bullpen?

[Jacksonian]

With him having a reasonable $13 million club option for 2017, absolutely, if the price is right.

Cincy supposedly wants at least one really good prospect for him.

[Reuben]

Cincy supposedly wants at least one really good prospect for him.

I'm sure we can find some place where Colin Moran has been referred to as a "really good" prospect.

[Reuben]

If they trade for a lefty reliever who gets kicked out of the bullpen?

I wondered that as well. If anything, I'd imagine they're trying to find a spot for Hoyt in the 'pen. There's really no room for a so-so Thatcher or Oliver Perez type this year, unless Luhnow gets really creative.

[Navin R Johnson]

What about a package that would bring Bruce and lefty reliever Tony Cingrani.  That would really address some needs.

Some quotes from Jockety on the possibility of trading one or both.

Reds president of baseball operations told reporters, including Zach Buchanan of the Cincinnati Enquirer  and MLB.com’s Mark Sheldon, that interest in Jay Bruce has been surprisingly tepid to this point in the summer. While a number of clubs have reached out to him on Bruce, Jocketty contends that the offers have been shockingly weak to this point, telling Buchanan, “You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff,” in reference to the packages offered by interested parties. While the immediate assumption might be that the Reds are asking too much, Jocketty sounds fairly grounded in his expectations, telling Buchanan: “We want a legitimate prospect. The guy’s a valuable player.”

Buchanan also notes that relievers such as Ross Ohlendorf, Blake Wood, and Tony Cingrani could conceivably be dealt if there’s interest, as all will rise in price next year. None have been particularly impressive, with Wood and Cingrani posting solid earned run averages without the peripherals to match. Ohlendorf is striking out better than a batter per nine and will be a free agent after the season; his mid-nineties fastball and old-time charm could make him a depth option.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/reds-jay-bruce-deadline-rumors-jocketty-cozart-desclafani-straily-relievers-homer-bailey-activated.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MlbTradeRumors+%28MLB+Trade+Rumors%29

[Jacksonian]

What about a package that would bring Bruce and lefty reliever Tony Cingrani.  That would really address some needs.

Some quotes from Jockety on the possibility of trading one or both.

Reds president of baseball operations told reporters, including Zach Buchanan of the Cincinnati Enquirer  and MLB.com’s Mark Sheldon, that interest in Jay Bruce has been surprisingly tepid to this point in the summer. While a number of clubs have reached out to him on Bruce, Jocketty contends that the offers have been shockingly weak to this point, telling Buchanan, “You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff,” in reference to the packages offered by interested parties. While the immediate assumption might be that the Reds are asking too much, Jocketty sounds fairly grounded in his expectations, telling Buchanan: “We want a legitimate prospect. The guy’s a valuable player.”

Buchanan also notes that relievers such as Ross Ohlendorf, Blake Wood, and Tony Cingrani could conceivably be dealt if there’s interest, as all will rise in price next year. None have been particularly impressive, with Wood and Cingrani posting solid earned run averages without the peripherals to match. Ohlendorf is striking out better than a batter per nine and will be a free agent after the season; his mid-nineties fastball and old-time charm could make him a depth option.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/reds-jay-bruce-deadline-rumors-jocketty-cozart-desclafani-straily-relievers-homer-bailey-activated.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MlbTradeRumors+%28MLB+Trade+Rumors%29

That's one I hope Luhnow is entertaining.

[DVauthrin]

Cincy supposedly wants at least one really good prospect for him.

Understandable.  I could see Reed peaking the Reds interest, with him playing college ball at Kentucky and he could easily be a future Jay Bruce offensively.  But i'd have to imagine the Astros would want one more controllable asset like Cingrani for Reed, unless Bruce is willing to sign a reasonable extension as part of the deal.

[Jacksonian]

Understandable.  I could see Reed peaking the Reds interest, with him playing college ball at Kentucky and he could easily be a future Jay Bruce offensively.  But i'd have to imagine the Astros would want one more controllable asset like Cingrani for Reed, unless Bruce is willing to sign a reasonable extension as part of the deal.

And that kind of always shifting deal making is exactly what goes on and what makes dealing so difficult.

[Navin R Johnson]

Bruce is under contract through 17.  There is no extension needed, he makes 13 Million in 2017.  There is a TEAM option to buy him out for 1 million, otherwise Bruce is locked up for 2017 too.

[pots]

Bruce is under contract through 17.  There is no extension needed, he makes 13 Million in 2017.  There is a TEAM option to buy him out for 1 million, otherwise Bruce is locked up for 2017 too.

Currently an easy decision on a qualifying offer as well (for 2018).  Though we've seen that change before

[Navin R Johnson]

I simply don't follow NL baseball closely at all now, what the hell was wrong with Bruce in 2014/15.  He was awful those two years, did he have injuries?   He seems to have righted it this season, but those 2 years are worrisome. 

[Jacksonian]

I simply don't follow NL baseball closely at all now, what the hell was wrong with Bruce in 2014/15.  He was awful those two years, did he have injuries?   He seems to have righted it this season, but those 2 years are worrisome.

Some kind of knee injury and surgery as I recall.

[juliogotay]

Understandable.  I could see Reed peaking the Reds interest, with him playing college ball at Kentucky and he could easily be a future Jay Bruce offensively.  But i'd have to imagine the Astros would want one more controllable asset like Cingrani for Reed, unless Bruce is willing to sign a reasonable extension as part of the deal.

I wonder if Bruce would like to be back in SE Texas enough to want to make a long-term deal with Houston work out?

[DVauthrin]

Bruce is under contract through 17.  There is no extension needed, he makes 13 Million in 2017.  There is a TEAM option to buy him out for 1 million, otherwise Bruce is locked up for 2017 too.

I was suggesting the club might try and negotiate an extension that would keep Bruce in Houston past the 2017 season if they were giving up AJ Reed, who has six years of club control, in return.  Or, as mentioned, get another controllable asset like Cingrani in the trade.

[Reuben]

Cingrani doesn't look like anything special.

[Navin R Johnson]

Cingrani doesn't look like anything special.

He is a lefty with decent numbers, under control for awhile.  A bullpen of Harris, Giles, Feliz, Cingrani,, Devo, Gregerson, Hoyt, is pretty darn solid and cheap.  Everyone but Gregerson is under club control until at least 2020.

[Reuben]

He is a lefty with decent numbers, under control for awhile.  A bullpen of Harris, Giles, Feliz, Cingrani,, Devo, Gregerson, Hoyt, is pretty darn solid and cheap.  Everyone but Gregerson is under club control until at least 2020.

Cingrani had a great year as a starter in 2013. Since then, he's 4-14 with a 4.38 ERA, a 1.48 WHIP, and 5.3 walks per 9. His ERA and Hits allowed have been much better this year, but he's still walking a lot (4.6 BB/9) and actually striking out fewer (6.4 K/9).

Plus, there's Sipp, who's owed about $14m more over the life of his contract. I don't see the Astros eating that just yet.

At any rate, Stark is reporting that the Reds may be hooking up with the Dodgers on a 3-way deal that would send Bruce to LA.

[BudGirl]

With the starting pitching the Astros have, I truly think it is in their best interest to keep Feldman and Devenski.

[austro]

This is such a seller's market that at this point I would consider seeing if I could use Fister or Fiers to rob somebody.

[Reuben]

With the starting pitching the Astros have, I truly think it is in their best interest to keep Feldman and Devenski.

The Astros also have Musgrove and Rodgers at AAA, both of whom are having great years and are quite polished.

[BudGirl]

The Astros also have Musgrove and Rodgers at AAA, both of whom are having great years and are quite polished.

I don't know how they'll do in the majors.  I like the experience of Feldman and Devo's been quite reliable.  I'm not willing to take that chance.  But Luhnow might.

[pots]

That's just fantastic.  Apparently Rangers are pretty deep in talks for Velasquez

[Reuben]

That's just fantastic.  Apparently Rangers are pretty deep in talks for Velasquez

Surely they'd have to give up a fortune to get him. The Phillies aren't going for the slow, small-market rebuild. VV looks like a big part of their return to contention. Why would they trade him now?

[moriartp]

Surely they'd have to give up a fortune to get him. The Phillies aren't going for the slow, small-market rebuild. VV looks like a big part of their return to contention. Why would they trade him now?

Health history. Velasquez looks good right now, but you have to worry about the arm falling off at some point. From that perspective, it makes sense to sell high to an org that has a different approach to evaluating health risks.

[Lefty]

According to Crasnick, VV to the Rangers is "unlikely".

[doyce7]

That's just fantastic.  Apparently Rangers are pretty deep in talks for Velasquez

This would make me sick if it happened

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[Jacksonian]

Melancon to the Nats.

[austro]

Melancon to the Nats.

Interesting. I guess the Pirates are throwing in the towel. What did they get in exchange?

[juliogotay]

Lucroy is not in today's Brewers lineup. Mets may be close on a deal for him.

[MrKnuckleball]

Edinson Volquez? What would we have to give up for him?

[JimR]

Interesting. I guess the Pirates are throwing in the towel. What did they get in exchange?

A couple of LHPs, I think.

[cougar]

Bowden has a blurb on ESPN saying that the Astros are in on one of the Rays young arms, and everyone is seeing what young bats they get to set the market a bit more.  Nothing more exact, unfortunately, but with all the time his name has come up recently, wouldn't it almost have to be Archer?

[moriartp]

Odorizzi is a more likely target, I think.

[drew corleone]

Musgrove scratched from tonight's start.

[Jacksonian]

Odorizzi is a more likely target, I think.

Then he's not going for an ace.

[Jacksonian]

Musgrove scratched from tonight's start.

McTag guessing he could get called up to pitch for Fister on Monday

[juliogotay]

McTag guessing he could get called up to pitch for Fister on Monday

i hope you are right but I would think Rodgers would be the guy to fill in...unless it has to do with where they fall in the rotation.

[pots]

Wade Davis to have MRI on his forearm.  Scratch that trade possibility

[juliogotay]

Wade Davis to have MRI on his forearm.  Scratch that trade possibility

I don't believe he was ever on the market.

[moriartp]

i hope you are right but I would think Rodgers would be the guy to fill in...unless it has to do with where they fall in the rotation.

Musgrove is on the 40-man, Rodgers isn't. Spot start and trade both seem realistic enough to me. If it's a trade, I hope it's someone better than Volquez.

[Lefty]

Wade Davis to have MRI on his forearm.  Scratch that trade possibility

"forearm strain" is pretty much the kiss of death

[austro]

Wonder if this will suddenly set KC to listening to offers for the likes of Ventura.

[cougar]

Wonder if this will suddenly set KC to listening to offers for the likes of Ventura.

ESPN.com is wondering if The Royals would but Volquez and if the Astros would pay the price for him.

[Uncle Charlie]

 Lucroy to Indians deal agreed pending his no-trade waiver. 4 for 1 deal with 20y.o. A+ catcher Mejia as the centerpiece, though Justus Sheffield may also be in the deal. Other projected pieces are all lower minor high risk players as well. Only Sheffield is in the MLB Top 100.

[BUWebguy]

Lucroy to Indians deal agreed pending his no-trade waiver. 4 for 1 deal with 20y.o. A+ catcher Mejia as the centerpiece, though Justus Sheffield may also be in the deal. Other projected pieces are all lower minor high risk players as well. Only Sheffield is in the MLB Top 100.

And... not any more.

Now who swoops in to try and grab Lucroy? Reportedly, the Rangers.

[pots]

MLBTR accidentally posted Miller to Astros this morning and the forum here crashed. 

[doyce7]

Olney says astros are one of the teams in on Beltran

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[austro]

Olney says astros are one of the teams in on Beltran

This team has so many holes that their best hope is to let the talent in the minors mature. I hope they don't send 3 of those prospects off for a 40-year-old player that can't pitch.

[jbm]

Yeah, holes are starting to appear in multiple places. They should carefully assess whether they are actually a contender.

[JimR]

Oh, please. Calm down ladies.

[doyce7]

One bad week doesn't wreck a season. Remember how bad they were in April? They survived that. Are there holes? Yes. Show me a team that doesn't. They may not have much chance at winning it all but as long as your in the mix you have to give yourself a shot.

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[MrKnuckleball]

One bad week doesn't wreck a season. Remember how bad they were in April? They survived that. Are there holes? Yes. Show me a team that doesn't. They may not have much chance at winning it all but as long as your in the mix you have to give yourself a shot.

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X2. It was a bad week but that team that just owned us also took care of Boston which isn't some slouch of a team. Regardless we need to get back on track.

[doyce7]

I'd be all over Beltran if I were luhnow, by the way. A good veteran hitter would do wonders for this team

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[JimR]

The loss last night destroyed everyone. Hang on, and fight back.

[MrKnuckleball]

The loss last night destroyed everyone. Hang on, and fight back.

That was a heart breaker. It happens though, long season. Schedule isn't getting easier though, can't dwell on this series.

[JimR]

I'd be all over Beltran if I were luhnow, by the way. A good veteran hitter would do wonders for this team

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Agree

[moriartp]

I'm for it, if only to see the reaction of the cretins who boo Beltran at MMP. I think their heads might explode. Do it, Luhnow.

[Reuben]

Honestly, I was surprised at how little it seemingly took for the Brewers to agree to trade Lucroy to the Indians. The centerpiece, Mejia, wasn't even a consensus Top 100 prospect - not that those rankings necessarily reflect how the teams feel, but I would've thought the Brew-Crew would get a much higher-regarded player, along with a guy like Mejia.

In other words, while I like the Castro/Gattis tandem, and don't love the idea of bringing in a catcher mid-season who has to learn an entire new pitching staff... I just wonder what it would take for the Astros to get Lucroy.

[WVastro]

Beltran has 15 teams on his "no trade" list that he can block....

I think he'd be a perfect fit for this team.

[JimR]

Beltran has 15 teams on his "no trade" list that he can block....

I think he'd be a perfect fit for this team.
[/quot

Do you know which teams?

I agree. Bat him 5th behind Correa.

[WVastro]

Beltran has 15 teams on his "no trade" list that he can block....

I think he'd be a perfect fit for this team.
[/quot

Do you know which teams?

I agree. Bat him 5th behind Correa.

I'd actually be fine with him hitting 4th but no need to rock the boat.

He can't block a trade to the Indians, Nationals, Royals, Cardinals, Rays, Tigers, and Dodgers, according to MLBTR. No word on who he can block that I can find.

[doyce7]

Hopefully being booed hasn't made him put the Astros on his list

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[pots]

I think nearly every rumor regarding the Astros is based on some writer's assumption that it would be a good fit for them.  Volquez and Norris can almost directly be traced back to some writer saying this guy should be available and the Astros, Rangers, etc are a great fit. 

[Reuben]

I dunno about that, but one thing is clear: the Astros FO has remained extremely tight-lipped about which players they're interested in. Ideally, it's creating enough uncertainty where the Rangers are worried that the Astros might be after all the same players they are.

[pots]

This tweet is a great example

#Astros are also dabbling in starter market, but it's largely picked over. Edinson Volquez a possibility, but they're lukewarm on him.

This tweet is a great example.  Astros possibly interested in picking up a starter.  Volquez is a starter who may be available. Even though Crasnick has zero evidence that the Astros ever even gave a crap about him, he tweets it.  Then it gets picked up because Crasnick is a professional writer.  His tweet says absolutely nothing.  It even contradicts itself.

[pots]

Still waiting on Lucroy's destination.  Brewers supposedly didn't bother to fly him to SD. 

[hostros7]

Rich Hill and Reddick to the Dojers for Jharel Cotton, Grant Holmes, and Frankie Montas.


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[Nate Colbert]

Former Astro Fernando Abad is pitching pretty well out of the pen for the Twins.  Might be a descent addition at a reasonable price for a LHP.  Not a big splash but could be a helpful piece.

Traded to the Red Sox today.

[pots]

Will Smith to Giants

Mets will likely complete deal for Bruce as apparently neither Bruce or the top prospect coming back Nimmo are the one with the medical issue.  Though until the door closes, it's open

[astrosfan76]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 32s32 seconds ago

Source: #Astros working on deals big and small. Number of possibilities in play.

Also, with LHP relievers being a concern, I wonder if Chris Cotton is considered an option for this season.  His AAA numbers are skewed by a 5-run outing in his first appearance, but he's been solid, otherwise.

[pots]

Will Smith to Giants

And they paid with their #1 prospect.  Phil Bickford (#65 overall).  That seems steep

[MusicMan]

Will Smith to Giants

His life just got flipped, turned upside down.


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[pots]

Source: Carlos Beltran sweepstakes down to Indians and Rangers. Likelihood of a trade high.

Damn

[MusicMan]

Source: Carlos Beltran sweepstakes down to Indians and Rangers. Likelihood of a trade high.

Damn

If you think he got booed before, wait until he shows up as a Ranger.


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[pots]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 32s32 seconds ago

Source: #Astros working on deals big and small. Number of possibilities in play.

I'll take I know nothing for 500 please Alex

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

If you think he got booed before, wait until he shows up as a Ranger.


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And here come the pretzels!

[MusicMan]

Rosenthal:

Source: Beltran to #Rangers close.


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[MusicMan]

I'll take I know nothing for 500 please Alex

He's no Jon Snow.


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[pots]

Indians To Acquire Brandon Guyer

Crap crap, Leaves the Rangers on an island with Beltran

[pots]

Supposedly Beltran for Dillon Tate

[MusicMan]

Rosenthal:

Source: Beltran to #Rangers close.


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He also says Dillon Tate would go to NYY.


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[pots]

The swap of Beltran for Tate is done, per Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (via Twitter). There’s more in the return to the Yankees, per the report.

fantastic

[MusicMan]

Cashman has completely owned this deadline.


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[Lefty]

Will Smith to Giants

How did I miss this?  "Smith tore a ligament in his right knee tying his cleats in spring training."

[Ebby Calvin]

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26  30s31 seconds ago Houston, TX
#Astros are trading Scott Feldman to Toronto.

[jbm]

Is this serious?

Maybe a precursor to something else, or are they sellers?

[chuck]

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26  30s31 seconds ago Houston, TX
#Astros are trading Scott Feldman to Toronto.

Unfortunately he went several innings yesterday and will not be available for the game tonight.

[pots]

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26  30s31 seconds ago Houston, TX
#Astros are trading Scott Feldman to Toronto.

Hey if you are not going for it might as well sell off the guys you are free agents at the end of the year.  Man that blown save on Saturday really hurt


20 minutes left.  Get back in there and sell, sell, sell!!!

[Navin R Johnson]

So the Rangers got Beltran for a guy who'd be about the Astros #10 prospect?  WTF

[MusicMan]

I assume Hoyt takes his place.


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[Fredia]

so bassically nothing

[MusicMan]

Is this serious?

Maybe a precursor to something else, or are they sellers?

Yes, I'm serious, and don't call me Shirley.

Oh, you didn't.


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[BizidyDizidy]

Rangers have acquired All-Star OF Carlos Beltran and cash from the NY Yankees for RHPs Nick Green, Erik Swanson and Dillon Tate.

[Knoxbanedoodle]

Dealing Feldman at the deadline of his walk year doesn't strike me as a sellers move, especially with Hoyt in AAA.

[hostros7]

Strengthening a wild card foe?


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[homer]

Strengthening a wild card foe?


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Making room on the 25 man for Sale.

[hostros7]

Rangers have acquired All-Star OF Carlos Beltran and cash from the NY Yankees for RHPs Nick Green, Erik Swanson and Dillon Tate.

Sounds like they will land Lucroy before the deadline as well.

[Navin R Johnson]

Rangers have acquired All-Star OF Carlos Beltran and cash from the NY Yankees for RHPs Nick Green, Erik Swanson and Dillon Tate.

Tate is outside of the overall top 100 and 5th for the Rangers.  The other 2 guys don't make the Rangers top 30.  Seems like the Astros could have easily offered something much more attractive, maybe they weren't interested in Beltran.

[Ebby Calvin]

Did we ever find out if Beltran could no-trade us?

[jbm]

So the Rangers got Beltran for a guy who'd be about the Astros #10 prospect?  WTF

Well, the guy was the #4 pick 12 months ago, so either they whiffed badly on the pick or they overpaid.  In other words, either way, they didn't help themselves long term.  And, Fuck em. 

[Ebby Calvin]

Guadalupe Chavez is the Feldman return.  No idea who he is.

[Nate Colbert]

Astros are hoarding pitchers from Mexico--Guadalupe Chavez (18 years old--currently pitching in GCL) is the return for Feldman according to Jeff Passan.

Currently a 1.03 WHIP and 1.69 ERA.

"Lupe" was the 20th-ranked Blue Jays prospect (per BA) entering the season.

[moriartp]

I hope dumping a solid reliever isn't the only move they end up making.

[BizidyDizidy]

And Rangers get Lucroy. Pitiful seeing them trying to keep pace with our Chavez acquisition.

[pots]

Rangers To Acquire Jonathan Lucroy

Good lord

[Waldo]

Dealing a MLB SP/RP for a rookie league arm?  Is that the best Luhnow could do?

[pots]

9 minutes left

Sell Sell Sell!

[JimR]

The Rangers have kicked our ass at the deadline two years in a row. Fuck you Hamels.

Come on, Sale!

[jbm]

Astros are hoarding pitchers from Mexico--Guadalupe Chavez (18 years old--currently pitching in GCL) is the return for Feldman according to Jeff Passan.

Currently a 1.03 WHIP and 1.69 ERA.

Getting them before the wall.

[hostros7]

And Rangers get Lucroy. Pitiful seeing them trying to keep pace with our Chavez acquisition.

And they didn't have to part with Gallo.

[BizidyDizidy]

Are these people good:

Source: #Rangers acquiring Jonathan Lucroy and a reliever from #Brewers for Lewis Brinson, Luis Ortiz.

[pots]

Jeremy Jeffress is included in the pact, Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning

White towel thrown

[pots]

They got the closer and the all star catcher.  All while keeping Gallo and Profar

[Navin R Johnson]

Are these people good:

Source: #Rangers acquiring Jonathan Lucroy and a reliever from #Brewers for Lewis Brinson, Luis Ortiz.

About like Reed and Martes for the Astros.

[DVauthrin]

Hopefully the Feldman trade signals maybe they have a deal for a starter in place.  Because if not, this deadline is a major kick in the balls with the Rangers getting Lucroy and Beltran.

[BizidyDizidy]

This is a shit sandwich with all the fixings

[pots]

Man, what if they don't blow Saturday's game?  Was that loss the one that ended the season? 

[Knoxbanedoodle]

I don't know how sad I am to see us not make trades. We don't seem to be particularly good at it.

[pots]

This is the play that represents the whole season

[hostros7]

According to the Astros official Twitter, Chavez is the only return from the Feldman deal. Makes no sense to trade a useful player for a low-A guy when in the midst of trying to make the playoffs.


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[MrKnuckleball]

Hope Gurriel can hit.

[BizidyDizidy]

According to the Astros official Twitter, Chavez is the only return from the Feldman deal. Makes no sense to trade a useful player for a low-A guy when in the midst of trying to make the playoffs.


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If you want to bring up Musgrove/Hoyt for Feldman anyways, doesn't hurt to get something.

[DVauthrin]

Man, what if they don't blow Saturday's game?  Was that loss the one that ended the season?

The Astros are still good enough to get the WC, and who knows they might get hot and win the division.  It's just depressing seeing the division leader make two huge acquisitions while the Astros haven't done anything.

[chuck]

As far as I can tell the Astros are now worse than they were an hour ago.

This is a trade deadline strategy that I can confidently call intriguing.

[Waldo]

Are these people good:

Source: #Rangers acquiring Jonathan Lucroy and a reliever from #Brewers for Lewis Brinson, Luis Ortiz.

Ortiz: started the season in high-A ball, went 3-2 in 7 games with 2.60 ERA, 67.1 IP, 70H, 13 BB, 62 K.  Now in AA, is 1-4 in 9 games with 4.08 ERA, 39.2 IP, 47 H, 7 BB, 34 K.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.cgi?id=ortiz-008lui
http://www.lonestarball.com/2015/2/3/7970985/luis-ortiz-scouting-report

Luis Ortiz is a 6'3", 220 lb. righthanded pitcher who was selected by the Rangers with their first overall pick (#30 overall) in the 2014 draft out of high school from Sanger, California.  Baseball America had Ortiz ranked #28 overall in their pre-draft rankings, and Keith Law had Ortiz at #10.  The general consensus is that Ortiz would have gone higher in the draft, had it not been for an injury that sidelined him for some of last spring.

Ortiz only had 20.1 IP in 9 games after signing with Texas, splitting that time between the Arizona Rookie League and the low-A Sally League, but he performed well in his limited action.  Ortiz had 19 ks against just 6 walks, putting up a 1.77 ERA.  Ortiz didn't get enough time in either league to place in the Baseball America league top 20 prospect lists, but got good reviews in both Arizona and in Hickory, and generally has been slotted in the 6-9 range in most Rangers top 10 lists I've seen.  Ortiz cracked Keith Law's top 100 list, coming in at #96.

Ortiz throws a low-90s fastball, a hard slider that is a potential plus pitch, and a changeup, which is, like most third pitches for high school pitchers, very much a work in progress.  Ortiz is considered a strike-thrower with a starter's build, and he's more refined than a lot of high school pitchers, so you could see him come more quickly than you would expect.  Law says Ortiz "looks like a future No. 2 starter," and thinks he could move up the lists significantly if he's healthy in 2015.

Brinson: hitting .237/.280/.431 in 308 AB in AA, with 14 doubles, 6 triples, 11 HR, 11 SB, 17 BB, and 64 K. 

Former 1st round pick and billed as the Rangers' top OF prospect.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/156854458/rangers-prospect-lewis-brinson-scouting-report/

[Ebby Calvin]

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi  4m4 minutes ago
#Astros no deal at buzzer, other than Feldman.

[Navin R Johnson]

This is the play that represents the whole season

Were you trying to link this?

https://twitter.com/Hill713/status/760205168856092674

[jaklewein]

Hope Gurriel can hit.

To your point...just because we made this move a couple weeks ago doesn't mean it doesn't count.

[BizidyDizidy]

Musgrove up.

ETA: And available in tonight's game.

[pots]

Were you trying to link this?

https://twitter.com/Hill713/status/760205168856092674

Nah, it was the play where Altuve fell on his triple short of the cycle

[Mr. Happy]

How could Luhnow have allowed the stRangers to improve themselves so much while twittling his thumbs on our end? Thanks a lot.

[JimR]

Hard to believe we did nothing.

ETA where is Mike Fast?  We need some 'splainin'

[doyce7]

This is really disappointing. I thought we'd at least do SOMETHING to help the team.

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[Waldo]

The Feldman deal is a real head-scratcher.  I can understand it as a moving part of a second trade, and I hope that's what it is and the second deal just didn't go through.  But on its own, subtracting known production from the big club feels like they're giving up on the season.

[jaklewein]

 It's over, plain and simple. Time to get on with the season with the boys we got and not look back.  Still have a good team.  Hopefully Cuban kid can contribute, along with Bregman. 

[doyce7]

The Feldman deal is a real head-scratcher.  I can understand it as a moving part of a second trade, and I hope that's what it is and the second deal just didn't go through.  But on its own, subtracting known production from the big club feels like they're giving up on the season.

Yeah this is kind of how I feel. I could understand staying as is but feldman is useful.  I just don't get it

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[MrKnuckleball]

To your point...just because we made this move a couple weeks ago doesn't mean it doesn't count.

Yes sir, can't to see what he can do. We could have won big and not know it yet.

[Navin R Johnson]

I was fine with not giving away the farm to add a piece and this looked like a sellers market, but after seeing what was given up to add Beltran and Bruce it is pretty frustrating to not have made a move.

[pots]

The Feldman deal is a real head-scratcher.  I can understand it as a moving part of a second trade, and I hope that's what it is and the second deal just didn't go through.  But on its own, subtracting known production from the big club feels like they're giving up on the season.

Yeah this made little sense.  You've basically kneeled on any chance of winning the division and assisted one of the teams you need to track down for a wild card.  If you aren't going for it all this year then why is Fister and Rasmus still on the team?  And it's not impossible to move Valbuena even though he is on the dl.

ETA
Why is Hoyt not the replacement?  Whose ass does he have to kick to get a call up?  I get Musgrove was in town in case Fister went on leave, but I'm quite sure Hoyt would have volunteered to wait at the airport.

[Navin R Johnson]

Who would trade for Rasmus?   But your point on Fister is valid.

[The Spleen]

How could Luhnow have allowed the stRangers to improve themselves so much while twittling his thumbs on our end? Thanks a lot.

Probably because there's more wrong with this team than could be fixed at the trade deadline.
He's going to have his hands full fixing this team even with a full offseason to work with.

[pots]

Who would trade for Rasmus?   But your point on Fister is valid.

Good point, push Rasmus through waivers ASAP so he can be available to trade if he gets hot.  (unless of course you are still in it in a few weeks)

[JJxvi]

Feldman was hogging a roster spot as one of two (or even three if you count Feliz) long relievers.  He was dealt to clear a 40 man spot for either Hoyt, or perhaps the outfield situation has them desperate enough to start considering bringing up Hernandez.

As far as someone like Gomez/Rasmus etc, those type expensive players who aren't performing can still be dealt. They will clear waivers.

[Waldo]

Feldman was hogging a roster spot as one of two (or even three if you count Feliz) long relievers.  He was dealt to clear a 40 man spot for either Hoyt

Sure, but now Musgrove (or it could've been Hoyt) is going to be hogging a roster spot as a long reliever, at least for now.  If you're going to contend for the division or the WC, I'd think you would prefer a known quantity (and Feldman was a known *good* quantity) over a guy who's never pitched in the bigs before.  It's a dumb risk to take and a frustratingly lukewarm position to take regarding whether your team can compete.

[geezerdonk]

Texas does not need Beltran and Lucroy to beat Houston. Give Houston Beltran and Lucroy and they still couldn't beat Texas.

[Ebby Calvin]

Mark Berman ‏@MarkBermanFox26  49s49 seconds ago Houston, TX
#Astros announce they have acquired Cuban minor league IF/OF Yordan Alvarez from the Los Angeles Dodgers in exchange for RHP Josh Fields.

Sorry, chuck

[hostros7]

The Dodgers signed Alvarez for $2mm on 6/15/16. It cost them twice that because they were over their limit.


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[Jacksonian]

I'm good with what happened.  They weren't going to get a difference maker in the rotation.  No one did.  They're counting on Bregman and Gurriel to fill some of the offense holes, and I do not find it a coincidence that the Astros were terrible offensively when they were down Marwin and Valbuena as both were doing quite well until injured.

They weren't going to give Feldman a qualifying offer so it seems they felt he was replaceable.  They were going to lose Fields at season's end so they got something for nothing.

[juliogotay]

The Dodgers signed Alvarez for $2mm on 6/15/16. It cost them twice that because they were over their limit.


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Alvarez is reportedly a big guy. 6'5",  220lbs.

[Jacksonian]

Astros are hoarding pitchers from Mexico--Guadalupe Chavez (18 years old--currently pitching in GCL) is the return for Feldman according to Jeff Passan.

Currently a 1.03 WHIP and 1.69 ERA.

"Lupe" was the 20th-ranked Blue Jays prospect (per BA) entering the season.

I believe it is Luhnow's complete and utter intention to do everything possible to corner the Mexico baseball market for the Astros.  They have scouted and signed Mexican players to great extent.

[pots]

Luhnow statement part 1
Luhnow statement part 2

[MusicMan]

Once bitten twice shy - from Brian T Smith:

Luhnow said result from #Astros' moves last deadline did affect decision process this year. "The honest answer is 'Yes.' "


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[jbm]

Once bitten twice shy - from Brian T Smith:

Luhnow said result from #Astros' moves last deadline did affect decision process this year. "The honest answer is 'Yes.' "


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I find this reassuring and it gives me more confidence in Luhnow moving forward.

[chuck]

Sorry, chuck

Puta. Well, I guess I have no choice but to join Josh and Kíké and become a Dodger fan.

Back to the NL I go. So long, suckers.

[The Spleen]

Luhnow statement part 1
Luhnow statement part 2

So the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage?

[Jose Cruz III]

I dunno about that, but one thing is clear: the Astros FO has remained extremely tight-lipped about which players they're interested in. Ideally, it's creating enough uncertainty where the Rangers are worried that the Astros might be after all the same players they are.

The Co ards probably know.

[Jacksonian]

The Co ards probably know.

That joke is getting old.

[Jose Cruz III]

Lunhow did a good job. He got us a good low minors pitcher for Feldman. If you look at his numbers and scouting report he seems to have a live arm and similar look as Martes did when we made that deal. I wouldn't have minded if he would have sent Rasmus and Gomez somewhere for prospects and seen if he could catch lightning in a bottle with some of the young guys.

[Jose Cruz III]

That joke is getting old.

True. Point taken. But in my defense I was going more for sarcasm because they will probably skate.

[Jacksonian]

I wouldn't have minded if he would have sent Rasmus and Gomez somewhere for prospects and seen if he could catch lightning in a bottle with some of the young guys.

I'd bet not a single team wanted either of them.

[Mr. Happy]

Once bitten twice shy - from Brian T Smith:

Luhnow said result from #Astros' moves last deadline did affect decision process this year. "The honest answer is 'Yes.' "


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That's nothing but an abject admission that he sucks as a trader. Luhnow lost me today.

[Jacksonian]

That's nothing but an abject admission that he sucks as a trader. Luhnow lost me today.

You're overreacting.  We don't know really who he was after and what was requested from him.

[Mr. Happy]

You're overreacting.  We don't know really who he was after and what was requested from him.

He basically admitted overpaying last season, and it affected him this year. That's pretty lame.

[Jose Cruz III]

I'd bet not a single team wanted either of them.

Probably not.

[Jacksonian]

He basically admitted overpaying last season, and it affected him this year. That's pretty lame.

Not of what he learned kept him from making another bad deal.

[Ebby Calvin]

That's nothing but an abject admission that he sucks as a trader. Luhnow lost me today.

Opposite reaction from me.  If he was uncomfortable giving up good pieces for rentals and used last year to come to that conclusion, that's fine.  Sale/Archer were really the only ones I wanted, and they didn't move.

[Mr. Happy]

Not of what he learned kept him from making another bad deal.

Hopefully, he did learn a lesson last year. That Brewers trade was God-awful. However, he essentially ran the white flag up in surrender for this season by doing nothing but giving up a valuable bullpen piece.

[Jose Cruz III]

He basically admitted overpaying last season, and it affected him this year. That's pretty lame.

How is that lame? The last thing this team needs is another Gomez that has to be played and makes the team worse. There was not a single player traded this week that would have made the Astros the favorite like Johnson in 98. He could have, and may have, went after Sale but should he have gutted the farm to do so? The core of this team (Altuve, Correa, Kuechel, McCullers, Springer) all came through the system being drafted or traded for and the next wave is about ready to emerge, Bregman being in Houston already. Trading any of that for Lucroy or Beltran or for a pitcher like Rich Hill or even Chapman would have been foolish, IMO. He just spent nearly 50 million signing the Cuban guy. If he is anything close to being as advertised, and Reed, White, or Davis develop for 1st base then this team will be set for years to come and he can spend money on pitching in the winter. I think he did what was smart for the team.

[Mr. Happy]

How is that lame? The last thing this team needs is another Gomez that has to be played and makes the team worse. There was not a single player traded this week that would have made the Astros the favorite like Johnson in 98. He could have, and may have, went after Sale but should he have gutted the farm to do so? The core of this team (Altuve, Correa, Kuechel, McCullers, Springer) all came through the system being drafted or traded for and the next wave is about ready to emerge, Bregman being in Houston already. Trading any of that for Lucroy or Beltran or for a pitcher like Rich Hill or even Chapman would have been foolish, IMO. He just spent nearly 50 million signing the Cuban guy. If he is anything close to being as advertised, and Reed, White, or Davis develop for 1st base then this team will be set for years to come and he can spend money on pitching in the winter. I think he did what was smart for the team.

It's lame because the GM job is not for the skiddish. Look at your good GM's, e.g., Sabean (I know, he's not GM in title), Theo (same thing), Dombroski and now Daniels and Friedman They needed pieces, and they went out and made it happen, and they improved their clubs. It's probably all for naught because this team has several holes that couldn't have been patched up via trade. Bring on 2017 already.

[juliogotay]

Opposite reaction from me.  If he was uncomfortable giving up good pieces for rentals and used last year to come to that conclusion, that's fine.  Sale/Archer were really the only ones I wanted, and they didn't move.

Maybe he was just disappointed in guys acquired last year that have come in an underperformed. Maybe it has nothing to do with the price.

Remember that last year at this time the Astros were atop the division. Now they are six out and competing against a gaggle of teams for a WC spot. Last year it was theirs to lose, this year it is a tough climb and this past week set them back a lot. The price for a rental or two may have been just bad business.

[WVastro]

It's all good folks! The Astros played some damn good baseball for two months. One bad week doesn't mean the season is over. Just think how good it's going to feel when the Astros bump the Rangers out even with their additions. Fuck em.

Honestly, I'm just glad we've been able to watch meaningful baseball this season after that April.

[moriartp]

That's nothing but an abject admission that he sucks as a trader. Luhnow lost me today.

Oh for goodness' sake.

[Jose Cruz III]

It's lame because the GM job is not for the skiddish. Look at your good GM's, e.g., Sabean (I know, he's not GM in title), Theo (same thing), Dombroski and now Daniels and Friedman They needed pieces, and they went out and made it happen, and they improved their clubs. It's probably all for naught because this team has several holes that couldn't have been patched up via trade. Bring on 2017 already.

So a guy has to trade away his farm system to add a couple of pieces to not be skiddish. If he had gutted the farm for Sale and Archer, I'm not so sure the Astros would have won it all this year.

[JimR]

Happy calm down. The Gomez trade was not bad when he made it, and they both helped the club last year. If he did not want to deal what was demanded to make trades, fine. I do not want to gut the farm system either.

Win with what we have.

[juliogotay]

Happy calm down. The Gomez trade was not bad when he made it, and they both helped the club last year. If he did not want to deal what was demanded to make trades, fine. I do not want to gut the farm system either.

Win with what we have.

Bill Brown just said it "may be foolish to gut the system for a team that is marginal to get to the playoffs." 

[toddthebod]

There are no free agent starters worth spending money on next season.  The Astros are going to have to build their rotation from within.  This isn't a bad thing.  The Astros have some arms.  But more important, the Astros need to have Keuchel and McHugh pitch like they are capable of doing.  Without that, the rotation is a mess.

[Navin R Johnson]

A bat would have been nice.

[Nate Colbert]

Talk about a deadline trade paying immediate dividends...

[Mr. Happy]

Talk about a deadline trade paying immediate dividends...

Agent Feldman!

[Fredia]

i was thinking the same thing going to be a long plane ride back to canada eh

[JimR]

Agent Feldman!

I had the same thought.

[JimR]

We apparently traded Fields to LAD for a Cuban IB.

[Jacksonian]

We apparently traded Fields to LAD for a Cuban IB.

You won't be happy to know you got Cabrera'd.

[rpntex]

Opposite reaction from me.  If he was uncomfortable giving up good pieces for rentals and used last year to come to that conclusion, that's fine.  Sale/Archer were really the only ones I wanted, and they didn't move.

My thoughts exactly...

Here's my take: Basically, there were four "premier" players rumored to be available - Sale, Archer, Beltran, & Lucroy.  Well, what were the ChiSox and Rays asking for the SPs?  From what I read in several places, the price tag for either would have started with Bregman.  No way that was going to happen.  As for the lower-grade starters available. it's the opinion of some (Buster Olney, for instance) that Devinsky, Feliz, and even Musgrove would be just as effective in the rotation as Matt Moore, Andrew Cashner, et al.  As well as Feldman pitched for Houston this year, I still think they improved their staff yesterday with the addition of Musgrove.

Now I would have liked to see them get one of those bats, but I ain't ready to go into hibernation just yet.  We need outfield help, but within the next two weeks we'll see Gurriel and the return of Valbuena.  I think we see lots of Bregman in LF when that happens, with Gurriel/Vslbuena/Margo shuffling around to cover 3b/1b. 

Lucroy would have been especially good, however. 

[JimR]

You won't be happy to know you got Cabrera'd.

I am not surprised to learn this, but I did look around here before I posted. Just not well enough, obviously.

[JimR]

My thoughts exactly...

Here's my take: Basically, there were four "premier" players rumored to be available - Sale, Archer, Beltran, & Lucroy.  Well, what were the ChiSox and Rays asking for the SPs?  From what I read in several places, the price tag for either would have started with Bregman.  No way that was going to happen.  As for the lower-grade starters available. it's the opinion of some (Buster Olney, for instance) that Devinsky, Feliz, and even Musgrove would be just as effective in the rotation as Matt Moore, Andrew Cashner, et al.  As well as Feldman pitched for Houston this year, I still think they improved their staff yesterday with the addition of Musgrove.

Now I would have liked to see them get one of those bats, but I ain't ready to go into hibernation just yet.  We need outfield help, but within the next two weeks we'll see Gurriel and the return of Valbuena.  I think we see lots of Bregman in LF when that happens, with Gurriel/Vslbuena/Margo shuffling around to cover 3b/1b. 

Lucroy would have been especially good, however.

I completely agree with this and with Enby's post you quoted. I just hate to see the Rangers improve so much without giving up Gallo or Profar.

[austro]

I completely agree with this and with Enby's post you quoted. I just hate to see the Rangers improve so much without giving up Gallo or Profar.

Exactly. I wasn't exactly surprised that the Rangers got Lucroy and Beltran, but I had assumed that doing so would require giving up one or both of Gallo and Profar, damaging their longer-term prospects. That's the part that sucks from my perspective.

[juliogotay]

Exactly. I wasn't exactly surprised that the Rangers got Lucroy and Beltran, but I had assumed that doing so would require giving up one or both of Gallo and Profar, damaging their longer-term prospects. That's the part that sucks from my perspective.

they gave up a heck of a prospect in Brinson. I would rather have him than Gallo. Ortiz, pitcher,  was very close to ML ready.

[Navin R Johnson]

A bat would have been nice.

[ckutac]

I too would have liked to see us add a bat.

However, to me, the price to land Carlos Beltran was to high.  The closest thing I can come up with in our Farm System to Dillon Tate would be Daz Cameron.  And to me, someone with that high of a ceiling is to rich for my liking to give up for a rental, that doesn't make you the runaway favorite (AKA Randy Johnson in 98).

And two top 100 players (likely AJ Reed and Francis Martes) was to steep of a price for Lucroy.

[DVauthrin]

My thoughts exactly...

Here's my take: Basically, there were four "premier" players rumored to be available - Sale, Archer, Beltran, & Lucroy.  Well, what were the ChiSox and Rays asking for the SPs?  From what I read in several places, the price tag for either would have started with Bregman.  No way that was going to happen.  As for the lower-grade starters available. it's the opinion of some (Buster Olney, for instance) that Devinsky, Feliz, and even Musgrove would be just as effective in the rotation as Matt Moore, Andrew Cashner, et al.  As well as Feldman pitched for Houston this year, I still think they improved their staff yesterday with the addition of Musgrove.

Now I would have liked to see them get one of those bats, but I ain't ready to go into hibernation just yet.  We need outfield help, but within the next two weeks we'll see Gurriel and the return of Valbuena.  I think we see lots of Bregman in LF when that happens, with Gurriel/Vslbuena/Margo shuffling around to cover 3b/1b. 

Lucroy would have been especially good, however.

I agree with much of what you say, but if a package highlighted by Bregman would have landed Chris Sale, i'd personally have helped him pack for Chicago.  #1 starters with three years of team control rarely hit the market, and prospects aren't guaranteed to work out. 

I also wouldn't have had an issue parting with a few top prospects other than Bregman to get Lucroy.  He's that good at a position where it's difficult to find players like him. 

[DVauthrin]

I too would have liked to see us add a bat.

However, to me, the price to land Carlos Beltran was to high.  The closest thing I can come up with in our Farm System to Dillon Tate would be Daz Cameron.  And to me, someone with that high of a ceiling is to rich for my liking to give up for a rental, that doesn't make you the runaway favorite (AKA Randy Johnson in 98).

And two top 100 players (likely AJ Reed and Francis Martes) was to steep of a price for Lucroy.

AJ Reed and Martes is not too steep a price for a guy like Lucroy, who produces both offensively and defensively at a premium  position and was not a rental.  Catchers like him don't grow on trees. 

[Jacksonian]

AJ Reed and Martes is not too steep a price for a guy like Lucroy, who produces both offensively and defensively at a premium  position and was not a rental.  Catchers like him don't grow on trees.

Even if you're only guaranteed to have him through the end of next season?

[WVastro]

What about Joey Votto as a waiver deal? Guy has been in top form for a good stretch now this season and last season was arguably one of his best. He's in good shape and I could see him having plenty of production in front of him. Maybe Cincinnati throws in cash with the right prospect in return?

[ckutac]

AJ Reed and Martes is not too steep a price for a guy like Lucroy, who produces both offensively and defensively at a premium  position and was not a rental.  Catchers like him don't grow on trees.

Agree that Catchers like Lucroy do not grow on trees.  He is the best Catcher in baseball.  But, for just 1 year plus a few months of control.  A Pitcher with #1 stuff, plus a 1B that can hit for average AND power.  That is to rich for me.  Both a 1B that can hit for Average and Power, and a true #1 starter do not grow on trees either.

I will even say, as good as Lucroy is, if either AJ Reed, or Francis Martes reach there potential, I think both are BETTER players than Lucroy.

[JimR]

I too would have liked to see us add a bat.

However, to me, the price to land Carlos Beltran was to high.  The closest thing I can come up with in our Farm System to Dillon Tate would be Daz Cameron.  And to me, someone with that high of a ceiling is to rich for my liking to give up for a rental, that doesn't make you the runaway favorite (AKA Randy Johnson in 98).

And two top 100 players (likely AJ Reed and Francis Martes) was to steep of a price for Lucroy.

Too, not to

[DVauthrin]

Even if you're only guaranteed to have him through the end of next season?

Yes, though I would've structured the deal to get either Jeffress or preferably Will Smith, too.  You can make a reasonable case Lucroy is as valuable than Buster Posey, and I think all of us would have no problem parting with Reed and Martes for 1.5 years of Posey with the opportunity to sign him to an extension.  So why would it be different for Lucroy?

The Astros have more good prospects in the system than they have positions for, and if the debuts of Bregman, Moran, Singleton and Reed have taught us anything, it's that there's no guarantee these guys come in and light it up as big leaguers from day 1. 

[BudGirl]

The Astros have more good prospects in the system than they have positions

I, respectfully, disagree with this assessment.  They only have so many good pitching prospects.  Martes seems to be one of the top and they dealt a couple of them last season and in the off-season.

[rpntex]

they gave up a heck of a prospect in Brinson. I would rather have him than Gallo. Ortiz, pitcher,  was very close to ML ready.

 Not only Brinson, but Ortiz was considered their top pitching prospects. Personally, I have not been too impressed with Gallo in the few times I've seen him play. He's going to get a lot of homeruns, and he's going to provide free air conditionin personally, I have not been too impressed with Gallo in the few times I've seen him play. He's going to get a lot of homeruns,  but with him it's going to be hit or miss… Literally.  I saw him  when Fresno came to Round Rock a couple of weeks ago. Musgrove may Gallo look absolutely foolish several times.

[homer]

Deadline decisions are of absolute fantasy discussion as long as Gomez and Rasmus are considered viable options for this team. It should be clear that Ground Control agrees and is focusing on next year.

[chuck]

Deadline decisions are of absolute fantasy discussion as long as Gomez and Rasmus are considered viable options for this team. It should be clear that Ground Control agrees and is focusing on next year.

I don't agree with that at all. I think Luhnow thinks he can win now with Rasmus and Gomez. Especially Gomez.

[austro]

I don't agree with that at all. I think Luhnow thinks he can win now with Rasmus and Gomez. Especially Gomez.

I don't think he's that delusional. I just think he likes what he's got in the pipeline and he doesn't want to give it up.

[chuck]

I don't think he's that delusional. I just think he likes what he's got in the pipeline and he doesn't want to give it up.

That's a completely separate discussion. I think he thinks he can win with Gomez, today. We'll see when Gurriel gets to Houston.

Rasmus is what, 1-50? I mean, he's a corner outfielder. He's not Adam Everett.

[homer]

I don't agree with that at all. I think Luhnow thinks he can win now with Rasmus and Gomez. Especially Gomez.

I don't think he's that delusional. I just think he likes what he's got in the pipeline and he doesn't want to give it up.

Probably both. He won't admit the mistake in Gomez, won't give up on Rasmus because he's saying he's fine to play, and won't part with future. The latter is defensible, but Gomez is a fucking cancer. And benching Rasmus takes balls. So, long story short, the Astros are wishing this season away.

[VirtualBob]

Deadline decisions are of absolute fantasy discussion as long as Gomez and Rasmus are considered viable options for this team. It should be clear that Ground Control agrees and is focusing on next year.

Yes

[chuck]

I have a hard time accepting that Luhnow's conceding this season. If you're close in August, especially the beginning of August, you have to go all in. You can daydream all you want about your window but the cold reality is that you may not have a window beyond the one you're looking through right now.

I couldn't help but notice that the owner was there tonight. I imagine he wanted to see for himself what the fuck is going on. Maybe now he knows.

[homer]

I have a hard time accepting that Luhnow's conceding this season. If you're close in August, especially the beginning of August, you have to go all in. You can daydream all you want about your window but the cold reality is that you may not have a window beyond the one you're looking through right now.

I couldn't help but notice that the owner was there tonight. I imagine he wanted to see for himself what the fuck is going on. Maybe now he knows.

Lunhow told us he is chickenshit after last year and decided to stay with what he has. In spite of injuries (Gomez, Rasmus) and other shortcomings (Sipp). Someone pointed out that Gourriel is the big play this year, and maybe so, but at this point he might as well arrive next year.

[moriartp]

Lunhow told us he is chickenshit after last year and decided to stay with what he has.

[slow-jerk motion]

[homer]

[slow-jerk motion]

Indeed.

[pots]

I have a hard time accepting that Luhnow's conceding this season. If you're close in August, especially the beginning of August, you have to go all in. You can daydream all you want about your window but the cold reality is that you may not have a window beyond the one you're looking through right now.

I couldn't help but notice that the owner was there tonight. I imagine he wanted to see for himself what the fuck is going on. Maybe now he knows.

Luhnow eluded to some owners were not going to be happy about the lack of moves in his short presser on the field after the deadline. 

[chuck]

Luhnow eluded to some owners were not going to be happy about the lack of moves in his short presser on the field after the deadline.

I heard that and I didn't really understand it. There is one majority owner. (Bank of America.) Who cares what the minority owners think.

[DVauthrin]

Luhnow eluded to some owners were not going to be happy about the lack of moves in his short presser on the field after the deadline.

I can understand their frustration.  The team is in contention and has holes that needed addressing.  Obviously you don't just make deals to make deals, but the Astros are no longer in the business of giving prospects extended stretches to learn on the job.  You either produce or you hit the bench. 

The Rangers have a loaded farm system just like the Astros, but even after the deals for Lucroy and Beltran they still have plenty of good prospects remaining and trust their front office to find more players in the 2017 draft, etc.

[chuck]

If I were a minority owner I would sit down and shut the fuck up and enjoy the fact that the team is like 28th in payroll and is getting massive money from MLB and that the asset is appreciating beyond any possible justification.

And I'd StubHub my seats.

[JJxvi]

I too would have liked to see us add a bat.

However, to me, the price to land Carlos Beltran was to high.  The closest thing I can come up with in our Farm System to Dillon Tate would be Daz Cameron.  And to me, someone with that high of a ceiling is to rich for my liking to give up for a rental, that doesn't make you the runaway favorite (AKA Randy Johnson in 98).

And two top 100 players (likely AJ Reed and Francis Martes) was to steep of a price for Lucroy.

IMO, there is at least an argument to be made that Dillon Tate's most comparable comp in the Astros system is actually Bregman.  Both college players drafted in the top 5 in 2015, both were roughly, top 50ish prospects in MLB for most of this year (although Bregman's stock skyrocketed this year to where its not totally accurate, and I think Tate's season has been not so good).  Daz Cameron is the same level of prospect, but IMO the number of years remaining until he's gonna be on a biog league roster has to have an impact on his actual current value compared to an older more ready pitcher.

[hostros7]

Tate and Bregman are basically the same prospects, except one has been phenomenal in the minors since being drafted and the other has scuffled. And, and one is a pitcher and the other a shortstop. Samesies, got it.


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[MusicMan]

Tate and Bregman are basically the same prospects, except one has been phenomenal in the minors since being drafted and the other has scuffled. And, and one is a pitcher and the other a shortstop. Samesies, got it.


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They are both mammals. That's about it.


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