Author Topic: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight  (Read 4213 times)

Limey

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Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« on: November 13, 2015, 03:49:47 pm »
Explosions, shootings, at least 18 dead and hostages taken.  Here's a live blog.

Fuckers
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BudGirl

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2015, 04:14:06 pm »
ugh, i don't like this.
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Bench

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2015, 04:49:19 pm »
Just awful. 
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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2015, 05:12:09 pm »
"‏@natnewswatch 
CNN reporting some hostages inside concert hall tweeting - "begging the police to raid the theatre" terrorists slaughtering them 1 by 1"
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Bench

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2015, 05:20:10 pm »
Reuters reports another shooting as Les Halles mall.
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Dark Star

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2015, 08:03:31 pm »
Don't fuck with the French, you cocksuckers! We make fun of them when we feel like it, but do not fuck with them!!

You cocksuckers are really going to regret this.
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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2015, 10:44:06 pm »
At least 153 dead is the latest number I've seen.

I don't understand. I really don't. If the IS were villains in a TV show everyone would complain about how 1-dimensional they are. How can such a large group of real people be that blatantly evil or fucked up?
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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2015, 08:56:08 am »
bomb those motherfuckers down to the core of the earth. if this awful shit had to happen, I am glad it does not only happen to us. maybe the West will now unite to rid the world of this scum.
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Limey

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2015, 10:26:47 am »
bomb those motherfuckers down to the core of the earth. if this awful shit had to happen, I am glad it does not only happen to us. maybe the West will now unite to rid the world of this scum.


Part of the problem is that bombing the physical locations of these fuckers does little except provide them with more images for recruitment videos...and more recruits.  The ringleaders are far from the action, (cough ... Saudi Arabia... cough) stimulating chaos from remote.

What this needs is the Arab world to stop saying how much they hate ISIS and actually do something about it.  If you add up the standing armies of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey etc. etc., they have about 5 million troops available.  Plus they have all new kit that's almost (if not exactly) as state of the art as ours.  Why is this on us, when it just makes the crazies come after us more, while they have everything they need locally to sort this out - everything except an actual desire.  You don't think they could roll in and take out 20-30,000 ISIS fighters if they wanted to?

Take the racial and religious differences out of it - i.e. make it Muslim vs. Muslim, Arab vs. Arab, then you take most of the wind out of ISIS' sails.  You certainly take the US and Europe out of it.  It's long overdue that we make the Arab world clean up it's own back yard.  We have all the oil we need right here; we were a net exporter, we just stopped producing it because the Saudis dumped the market.  At what point does our security involve getting the fuck out of the middle east and consuming our own energy?

Take the trillions of dollars we spend on playing whack-a-mole over there, and subsidise the price at the pump for the US consumer.

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Bench

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2015, 10:45:17 am »
It's not about religion, it's about money.  Who funds ISIS?  Who purchases the black market oil they produce?  Who pays them off to send them on holy wars so they don't interfere with the entrenched stratification of their home countries? 
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Fredia

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2015, 10:49:19 am »
and now the same people are  entering into the usa.  mistake or charity
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Bench

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2015, 11:09:07 am »
and now the same people are  entering into the usa.  mistake or charity

Not sure what you mean by "same people." 
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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2015, 11:38:59 am »
from what i read one of the terrorist had a passport as a syrian  refugee .  maybe i have a jaded outlook but among the 10 thousand destined for the usa  could there be one among them. i know texas is refusing to take any of the immigrants. if there is a way to go through and weed out those who want to do harm then let them in
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Bench

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2015, 11:59:58 am »
The refugees are risking their lives to get away from these lunatics.  I don't think turning away 10,000 people fearing for their lives because one of them might be a terrorist advances anyone's interests or ideals but the people they are running from. 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 12:02:58 pm by Bench »
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Limey

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2015, 12:29:19 pm »
The refugees are risking their lives to get away from these lunatics.  I don't think turning away 10,000 people fearing for their lives because one of them might be a terrorist advances anyone's interests or ideals but the people they are running from.

17 of the 20 9/11 bombers were Saudis.  They were funded by Saudi money.  bin Laden was a Saudi.

We refused entry to everyone from Saudi Arabia after that happened, right?  Eh?  Oh.
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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2015, 04:33:15 pm »
Can you imagine how fast a GOP candidate would get run out of the race for saying this today?

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Bench

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2015, 04:54:46 pm »
Can you imagine how fast a GOP candidate would get run out of the race for saying this today?

The closest we get to compassion from the current bunch is his brother saying we should just focus on Christian refugees. 
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juliogotay

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2015, 05:42:16 pm »
The closest we get to compassion from the current bunch is his brother saying we should just focus on Christian refugees.

The sentiment of a significant amount of the population deserves representation, too.

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2015, 08:54:53 am »
It's not about religion, it's about money.  Who funds ISIS?  Who purchases the black market oil they produce?  Who pays them off to send them on holy wars so they don't interfere with the entrenched stratification of their home countries?

We do, for the most part. It goes out via truck to pipeline stations in Turkey and Iraq. There was a good article about the flow of oil generating about $1.5M per day yesterday.  I will see if I can find that. And that's on top of a whole lot of funding from various Saudis.  Turkey supports Daesh under the table. Daesh is killing Kurds, and that plus their share of the oil smuggling is sufficient reason to support Daesh, as long as they can unload the refugees to the EU. If that migration is stopped though, Turkey will turn around. They don't want the Syrians any more the Le Pen's group in France does.


What this needs is the Arab world to stop saying how much they hate ISIS and actually do something about it.  If you add up the standing armies of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Turkey etc. etc., they have about 5 million troops available.  Plus they have all new kit that's almost (if not exactly) as state of the art as ours.  Why is this on us, when it just makes the crazies come after us more, while they have everything they need locally to sort this out - everything except an actual desire.  You don't think they could roll in and take out 20-30,000 ISIS fighters if they wanted to?

I don't think the troops would fight. We're trained and outfitted the Iraqis, and what are they doing? They even have a sectarian beef w/ Daesh since they Iraqi army is mostly Shia and Daesh is Sunni. I mean, look how many of the refugees are being settled in the Gulf states. Zero.

A will to fight will defeat a much larger and better equipped and non-motivated army every time.

Edit: The link to the story on how oil comes out of ISIS territory in the Financial Times http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/b8234932-719b-11e5-ad6d-f4ed76f0900a.html#axzz3rgnFsg57
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 08:56:40 am by Phil_in_CS »

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2015, 09:05:10 am »
Agree that they won't fight as long as the West will.  If the West wouldn't, they might become more motivated.

Overall, I totally agree with Limey's point.  Other than a humanitarian sense, why is that region so important to our national security?  I've heard smart and responsible people convey the doomsday message of "spread of nihilism and chaos," but it isn't persuasive, to me at least.  Our present tactics seem to feed it rather than thwart it.   

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2015, 09:21:21 am »
Other than a humanitarian sense, why is that region so important to our national security?

Because you people scream bloody murder at having to pay $3/gallon for gasoline.  ISIS is on the radar because we as Americans demand they be.
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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2015, 09:30:52 am »
"You people."  Give me a break.  Many people are fully capable of understanding the concept of "subsidizing oil through our military" and all of the associated costs.   

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2015, 09:40:58 am »
"You people."  Give me a break.  Many people are fully capable of understanding the concept of "subsidizing oil through our military" and all of the associated costs.   

Understanding and having the willingness to actually *do* something are completely different concepts.  The Middle East is important to us because they have oil, we want it, and we're not willing to pay the price to either a) get it somewhere else or b) simply take it.
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

Limey

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2015, 12:18:30 pm »
Because you people scream bloody murder at having to pay $3/gallon for gasoline.  ISIS is on the radar because we as Americans demand they be.

Hence my (semi-tongue-in-cheek) comment that we take the money we save playing whack-a-fundie and use it to subsidise the cost of gas at the pump.
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Bench

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2015, 02:18:34 pm »

Edit: The link to the story on how oil comes out of ISIS territory in the Financial Times http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/b8234932-719b-11e5-ad6d-f4ed76f0900a.html#axzz3rgnFsg57

Thanks for the article.  In addition to their oil revenues, according to a report on NPR I heard last night, they also significantly tax the populace of the area they occupy and also make a tidy sum plundering antiquities for the black market.  The state-model strategy of ISIS compared to the ideology-driven model of Al Qaeda is an interesting distinction. 
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Limey

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2015, 02:58:24 pm »
Meanwhile, the scheduled friendly (football) match between Germany and Holland has been called off at the last minute due to threats of a bomb and the reported discovery of a truck bomb at the stadium.

In London, the friendly between England and France is underway as planned.  England winning 1-0 at halftime, but the whole stadium belted out La Marseillaise like they were all card-carrying sons and daughters of the Revolution.

FYI, the French team includes Lassana Diarra, who lost his cousin in the attacks last Friday.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 03:00:52 pm by Limey »
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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2015, 07:46:03 am »
Meanwhile, the scheduled friendly (football) match between Germany and Holland has been called off at the last minute due to threats of a bomb and the reported discovery of a truck bomb at the stadium.

In London, the friendly between England and France is underway as planned.  England winning 1-0 at halftime, but the whole stadium belted out La Marseillaise like they were all card-carrying sons and daughters of the Revolution.

FYI, the French team includes Lassana Diarra, who lost his cousin in the attacks last Friday.

I know it's best to get back to normal after something like this but the French side couldn't have really had their hearts in it.

Limey

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2015, 09:02:57 am »
I know it's best to get back to normal after something like this but the French side couldn't have really had their hearts in it.

I'm sure they didn't.  But it was important that the game be played (it had no competitive meaning).

Having lived through Irish bombing campaigns in London, "keeping calm and carrying on" is the best response to terrorists.  Yes, there is always a dull, heavy feeling that settles in - something I sensed strongly in OKC on a visit there a few days after the FBI building was bombed -  but people going about their business is what terrorists do not want.

They want us to freak out; to enforce changes to our way of life, temporarily or permanently; to inflict harm upon ourselves far greater than they could ever do (basically everything we did do after 9/11).  Not doing any of those things makes them impotent and makes us stronger.
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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2015, 10:36:59 am »
I'm sure they didn't.  But it was important that the game be played (it had no competitive meaning).

Having lived through Irish bombing campaigns in London, "keeping calm and carrying on" is the best response to terrorists.  Yes, there is always a dull, heavy feeling that settles in - something I sensed strongly in OKC on a visit there a few days after the FBI building was bombed -  but people going about their business is what terrorists do not want.

They want us to freak out; to enforce changes to our way of life, temporarily or permanently; to inflict harm upon ourselves far greater than they could ever do (basically everything we did do after 9/11).  Not doing any of those things makes them impotent and makes us stronger.

I'm pretty sure they really would prefer to kill all infidels. Freaking us out is the consolation prize.

Limey

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2015, 01:49:31 pm »
I'm pretty sure they really would prefer to kill all infidels. Freaking us out is the consolation prize.

Not to be blunt, but if you think that then you misunderstand the goals of a "terror" campaign.
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Limey

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2015, 01:54:55 pm »
News out of Paris is that the ringleader, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, is Abdelhamid AbaaDEAD; blown to bits by the Holy Handgrenade of Bataclan.  In the raid, his cousin blew herself up, 7 others were captured.

An assault and explosives search dog - "Diesel" - was killed, prompting the hashtag #JeSuisChien to trend on Twitter.
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Phil_in_CS

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2015, 02:35:55 pm »
Not to be blunt, but if you think that then you misunderstand the goals of a "terror" campaign.

Yeah. Mao 'wrote the book' on that and Che made some adjustments for the Western world. It's all playing out according to plan at the moment.  Daesh has significant amounts of state of the art anti aircraft missiles; Russian made and taken from the Syrian army. They lack the expertise to use them well, and know that both us and Russia have CAP flying to destroy them if they turn on the targeting radars.  Current school of thought is they're hanging on to them to use on rescue helos (a much easier target than a jet) when the finally manage to down a jet by ground fire, causing a Blackhawk Down type situation.

They want us, France, Russia, etc to come in on the ground so they can bleed us. They don't mind a 50 to 1 loss ratio, and that tactic worked very well for the Taliban. I see many people thinking the Russians will pound them like they did Grozny, conveniently forgetting Russia lost between 10,000 and 25,000 men in the two Chechen wars depending on whose numbers you believe. The Chechens are still a major problem for Russia and exporting lovely young men like the brothers in Boston Marathon bombing.

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2015, 06:45:24 pm »
Not to be blunt, but if you think that then you misunderstand the goals of a "terror" campaign.

It is a "terror" campaign now and historically because of the limits of their abilities. That is fast changing. When we go from calling off a soccer match because of threats to blowing up a soccer stadium with a small nuke the terminology and thinking, God forbid, will change.

Limey

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2015, 09:34:25 am »
It is a "terror" campaign now and historically because of the limits of their abilities. That is fast changing. When we go from calling off a soccer match because of threats to blowing up a soccer stadium with a small nuke the terminology and thinking, God forbid, will change.

It's a terror campaign because their ability to function on the ground has been severely curtailed by an incessant bombing campaign*.


* Despite what the clown car of GOP candidates or Fox News would have you believe, the U.S. has launched close to 7,000 raids on ISIS/L / Da'esh, which is one of the main reasons they can't even control the bits of Iraq and Syria they say they do.  Putin - who's being lauded as some kind of strong leader in this regard - has only just joined the party and is not always bombing who he says he is or who we want him to.
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Limey

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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2015, 09:38:30 am »
Meanwhile, French authorities have now confirmed that the ringleader is dead.  He has been identified from skin samples.  He may have been obliterated when his cousin detonated her suicide vest - bits of her were found on police cars in the street downstairs.

I am somehow reminded of the ending of Hellraiser...
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Re: Some Nasty Shit Going Down in Paris Tonight
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2015, 10:46:01 am »
Putin - who's being lauded as some kind of strong leader in this regard - has only just joined the party and is not always bombing who he says he is or who we want him to.

His stated purpose is not to destroy Daesh but to keep his buddy Assad in power. It seems our govt just can't wrap their heads around that.  They see (correctly) that Assad is a evil bastard and just can't get it through their heads that Putin is there to support him, no matter how many times Putin says it.

Russia and Syria have been allies for decades and there's no way in hell Putin is going to allow something to happen to their port in Tartus. As long as he keeps Assad in power, he retains the port.  That's the only repair / refit base they can access without having to pass through the Straits of Bosphorus.