Author Topic: day dreaming, but....  (Read 9054 times)

S.P. Rodriguez

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day dreaming, but....
« on: August 02, 2010, 08:38:11 am »
Wouldn't it be nice if someone grabbed Lee off waivers?  Only issue is he'd still have to waive his NTC, if I understand correctly.  Oh well, back to reality.
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Andyzipp

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 09:00:30 am »
Wouldn't it be nice if someone grabbed Lee off waivers?  Only issue is he'd still have to waive his NTC, if I understand correctly.  Oh well, back to reality.

Lee is a nice enough guy, but he's not about winning.  He's about being comfortable.  For better or worse, he's comfortable here.

S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 09:03:58 am »
Lee is a nice enough guy, but he's not about winning.  He's about being comfortable.  For better or worse, he's comfortable here.

100% agreed.  That's actually the reason I think the Astros NEED to move him.  He's not the type of veteran you need around developing players and all the more reason to have guys like Myers, Michaels, Blum, and maybe even Feliz.  All are true professionals who prepare and compete with everything they have.  No whining, no bitching about others not doing their job.
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Arky Vaughan

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2010, 10:12:23 am »
Let's say Lee returns next season to something close to old form, maybe not the .305/.354/.524 he hit the first three years of the contract, but something in the .280/.340/.480 range. At that point, if McLane is willing to eat some salary, Lee would probably be attractive to a contender needing a bat, particularly in the American League.

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2010, 10:19:36 am »
100% agreed.  That's actually the reason I think the Astros NEED to move him.  He's not the type of veteran you need around developing players and all the more reason to have guys like Myers, Michaels, Blum, and maybe even Feliz.  All are true professionals who prepare and compete with everything they have.  No whining, no bitching about others not doing their job.
When has Lee ever whined or bitched about teammates, or anything?
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S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2010, 10:25:38 am »
When has Lee ever whined or bitched about teammates, or anything?

And you believe this is the only way to be a negative influence?  Complacency is just as contagious and corrosive as petty blame-storming.  It's completely unlikely to happen but if they could find a way to get rid of Lee, I'd be all for it.  I don't care what his production level might be.  On a team that has a Bagwell or Biggio to set the example, Lee is a good player to have.  As the senior, highest paid player on the team, he's the worst possible example for young players that I see on this roster. 
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Limey

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2010, 10:44:32 am »
When has Lee ever whined or bitched about teammates, or anything?

Dunno about that, but Fuckhouse has made some not-so-veiled comments regarding Lee's professionalism, or lack thereof.  It was around the time of PracticeGate, when Lee failed to show for the optional practice session.  That story got hashed out here pretty well, but it was crystal clear that Footer had had enough of "Carlos being Carlos".
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Limey

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2010, 10:51:36 am »
As the senior, highest paid player on the team, he's the worst possible example for young players that I see on this roster. 

Especially ones with similarly big bones.  Like Wallace.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2010, 11:11:20 am »
And you believe this is the only way to be a negative influence?  Complacency is just as contagious and corrosive as petty blame-storming.  It's completely unlikely to happen but if they could find a way to get rid of Lee, I'd be all for it.  I don't care what his production level might be.  On a team that has a Bagwell or Biggio to set the example, Lee is a good player to have.  As the senior, highest paid player on the team, he's the worst possible example for young players that I see on this roster. 
No, I don't think it's the only way to be a negative influence. I just thought it odd that you contrasted Lee with guys who "are true professionals who prepare and compete with everything they have.  No whining, no bitching about others not doing their job. " Hadn't heard anything of that sort in relation to him.

I think you and Limey make good points, although its hard to know really, how Lee is perceived in the clubhouse. Even Footer might not know the extent to which he does or doesn't rub other players the wrong way, or negatively affect things. There have been lots of players through the ages who catch a lot of shit because they are laid back, and slow, and perceived as not caring. Sure, Lee could set a better example for young players... but he's not quite Manny Ramirez. Have players griped about him to the media? They griped about Cooper, surely they'd find a way to make remarks about Lee beyond "yeah... he probably should've been on time" etc.

Personally, I hope he starts hitting again, right on through next July, enabling him to be traded without eating 99% of the contract.
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Matt

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2010, 01:07:36 pm »
I hope he hasn't invited Wallace out for pancakes yet...

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2010, 02:05:41 pm »
I hope he hasn't invited Wallace out for pancakes yet...
Wallace is the embodiment of "stocky". Dude has thighs bigger than I am.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2010, 02:10:37 pm »
Wallace looks like Jason Jennings with a Greg Brady wig.
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S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2010, 02:20:13 pm »
Wallace looks like Jason Jennings with a Greg Brady wig.

From a profile perspective, I think he bears a stunning resemblence to Harpo Marx.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2010, 02:34:17 pm »
i think he looks like he can hit.
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S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2010, 02:36:33 pm »
I sure hope so, and not just for the value of a running Marx Bros. reference. 
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2010, 02:41:33 pm »
i think he looks like he can hit.

He's completely thrown out the old "swing up" vs. "swing down" argument.  Beautifully level.
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S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2010, 02:47:40 pm »
He's completely thrown out the old "swing up" vs. "swing down" argument.  Beautifully level.

I was very impressed by his short, quick swing in addition to your statement. 
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Limey

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2010, 02:48:59 pm »
He's completely thrown out the old "swing up" vs. "swing down" argument.  Beautifully level.

His first knock was "pure hitting", in that he took the pitcher's pitch, and just served it out into CF.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2010, 02:54:46 pm »
i think he looks like he can hit.
Jim, I may have missed it somewhere (like in the GZ) but I'm curious on your (and others') thoughts about Castro as a hitter. It kind of seems to my extremely-untrained eye that he's dragging the bat a lot- his front shoulder is opening up and his hands are lagging behind- resulting in a lot of pop-ups off to the left side. But I've seen him maybe stay closed a little more at times and shoot it nicely up the middle. He seems to rarely pull the ball.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2010, 02:58:55 pm »
His first knock was "pure hitting", in that he took the pitcher's pitch, and just served it out into CF.

Definitely. Looked much better than the first game where you could tell he was nervous as hell.

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2010, 03:42:39 pm »
Jim, I may have missed it somewhere (like in the GZ) but I'm curious on your (and others') thoughts about Castro as a hitter. It kind of seems to my extremely-untrained eye that he's dragging the bat a lot- his front shoulder is opening up and his hands are lagging behind- resulting in a lot of pop-ups off to the left side. But I've seen him maybe stay closed a little more at times and shoot it nicely up the middle. He seems to rarely pull the ball.

It seemed like for a period, Castro shot a lot of line drive fouls to the lower stands (or screen) between home and third.  I've tried to contemplate the physics of those fouls, but my brain locked up.  Seems like it indicates good timing, but also something about the swing path that I can't figure out. 

Limey

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2010, 04:04:14 pm »
It seemed like for a period, Castro shot a lot of line drive fouls to the lower stands (or screen) between home and third.  I've tried to contemplate the physics of those fouls, but my brain locked up.  Seems like it indicates good timing, but also something about the swing path that I can't figure out. 

Fouled straight back indicates good timing.  For a lefty, fouling off to the 3B side makes you late on the pitch.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2010, 04:27:33 pm »
I remember Mitch Williams one night saying that he gets pissed when people say a foul straight back indicates that the batter was right on.  I can't remember what he said he thought was a "close foul ball" though, and I'm not claiming he is right in that statement.

Like I said, the physics (downward swing, upward swing, direction of foul, trajectory of foul) is straining my brain.  All I know for sure is that the center of the bat on those fouls is below the ball.  My gut says that those swings look close to a good line drive to right, but I don't know.

Limey

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2010, 04:31:53 pm »
I remember Mitch Williams one night saying that he gets pissed when people say a foul straight back indicates that the batter was right on.  I can't remember what he said he thought was a "close foul ball" though, and I'm not claiming he is right in that statement.

Like I said, the physics (downward swing, upward swing, direction of foul, trajectory of foul) is straining my brain.  All I know for sure is that the center of the bat on those fouls is below the ball.  My gut says that those swings look close to a good line drive to right, but I don't know.

Not that I have any credibility to disagree with Mitch Williams, but I remember Cammy saying that he knew he was coming out of a slump when he started fouling the ball straight back.  Clearly, you're not "on" it, because your swing is too high or too low, but you've timed it properly because the bat was square at contact.

If Castro is smacking them into the 3B seats, then he's "on" the pitch, just not timing his swing.  If he's just fapping them over there, then there's a lot of work to be done.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2010, 04:40:55 pm »
Fapping?  Translate

These are not shots to the folks near third, but low fouls to the third base side of the screen.

Limey

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2010, 04:49:23 pm »
Fapping?  Translate

Fap.


These are not shots to the folks near third, but low fouls to the third base side of the screen.

Sounds to me like he hasn't adjusted to the unGodly breaking stuff in the show.  Missing it high and late.  I guess that he's waiting to see the pitch, seeing it late, then swinging at where it was.  Basically, he's Spaz without the nervous speed to get away with it on occasion.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2010, 10:30:13 pm »
Complacency is just as contagious and corrosive as petty blame-storming. 

Complacency is a disease...

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2010, 11:47:19 pm »
Wouldn't it be nice if someone grabbed Lee off waivers?  Only issue is he'd still have to waive his NTC, if I understand correctly.  Oh well, back to reality.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2010, 09:05:36 am »
More wool gathering ...
If Howard goes on the DL, maybe the Phillies would be desperate enough to take Carlos.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2010, 09:17:45 am »
Carlos is leading the team in RBI, or so i heard Brown say last evening.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2010, 09:21:16 am »
Carlos is leading the team in RBI, or so i heard Brown say last evening.

I thought he looked good last night. He had a good eye at the plate, and he showed some hustle/give-a-shit... from trying to break up the double play to coming in to snag that liner in the late innings, he seemed energized.

austro

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2010, 09:23:01 am »
Carlos is leading the team in RBI, or so i heard Brown say last evening.

Not hard to believe. Only Keppinger and Pence could possibly be close.

I just checked the stats: Pence and Lee have 53 RBI, Kepp has 40. Nobody else has more than 27. Pence and Lee both have 416 plate appearances. Lee has 3 sac flies, Pence has none, which is astonishing and not at the same time.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2010, 09:23:26 am »
I thought he looked good last night. He had a good eye at the plate, and he showed some hustle/give-a-shit... from trying to break up the double play to coming in to snag that liner in the late innings, he seemed energized.

And scoring from third on Johnson's chopper.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2010, 09:27:11 am »
Complacency is a disease...

I don't let it concern me.
He breezed him, one more time!

Limey

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2010, 09:28:57 am »
And scoring from third on Johnson's chopper.

NTTAWWT
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2010, 09:33:46 am »
Carlos is leading the team in RBI, or so i heard Brown say last evening.

He was interviewed after the game and said something to the effect that the trades of Oswalt and Berkman sent a message to the team (I think he said the message was that they can't rely on any one player any more, but I think something was lost in translation). 

That said, his at-bats last night were reminiscent of past years where his ability to hit hard liners to the right side was his strength.  I think that trait led me to overlook his free-swinging ways with less than two strikes.  He's an incredible hitter, when he uses this approach and slaps hits all over the right side.  I also noticed an improved effort level in the field starting at the cubs series in Wrigley.  He chased down some hits in LF that I thought would surely lead to stand up doubles, instead limiting them to singles.  Who knows, maybe he's capable of giving a shit. 
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2010, 09:44:09 am »
I thought he looked good last night. He had a good eye at the plate, and he showed some hustle/give-a-shit... from trying to break up the double play to coming in to snag that liner in the late innings, he seemed energized.

me, too.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2010, 12:53:20 pm »
I was surprised when they put up the stat that Lee has come to the plate with a man on third and less than two outs a whopping 18 times this season.  (I believe he's plated them 11 times; not great, not bad). That's something he can't control.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2010, 01:10:19 pm »
I was surprised when they put up the stat that Lee has come to the plate with a man on third and less than two outs a whopping 18 times this season.  (I believe he's plated them 11 times; not great, not bad). That's something he can't control.


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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2010, 01:13:02 pm »
what would be great?

20 of 18 would be great, Jim.

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2010, 01:22:00 pm »
20 of 18 would be great, Jim.

indeed, it would. any time you can drive in more runners than are on, you are doing a good job.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2010, 01:31:42 pm »
indeed, it would. any time you can drive in more runners than are on, you are doing a good great job.

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2010, 01:35:41 pm »
FIFY

no, man. nothing is great. these bums have to strive hard for our "good" label.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2010, 01:41:40 pm »
no, man. nothing is great. these bums have to strive hard for our "good" label.

I am in lockstep with this.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2010, 01:42:28 pm »
I am in lockstep with this.

collectively, i agree.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2010, 01:54:10 pm »
In the postgame Lucas asked him about playing 1st.  Lucas hinted that Mills has said he wants to put Carlos there against certain lefties to give Wallace a break.   Carlos said that was the first he had heard of that but would be willing to do it.
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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2010, 01:54:51 pm »
indeed, it would. any time you can drive in more runners than are on, you are doing a good job.

Which is my point.  Greatness is unachievable.

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2010, 02:14:15 pm »
indeed, it would. any time you can drive in more runners than are on, you are doing a good job.

I believe that its only possible when you hit the fabled 6-run homer.

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2010, 02:28:26 pm »
I believe that its only possible when you hit the fabled 6-run homer.

Off of a 12 to 6 slider.

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2010, 02:29:12 pm »
Off of a 12 to 6 slider.
Naturally that's the only pitch you can hit one with.

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day dreaming, but....
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2010, 10:39:33 am »
Youklis is out for the year. Boston can't make the playoffs without Carlos.
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Mr. Happy

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2010, 10:46:23 am »
Youklis is out for the year. Boston can't make the playoffs without Carlos.

They still have Mike Lowell.
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S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2010, 12:56:47 pm »
They still have Mike Lowell.

Having a bad season.  They NEED Lee.  18mil/yr is nothing to them... They NEED CARLOS LEE.  Maybe they'll give us Lowrie or Ellsbury in exchange.  Might as well ask, if we're going to take a trip to never never land. 
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Matt

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Re: day dreaming, but....
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2010, 01:10:49 pm »
Having a bad season.  They NEED Lee.  18mil/yr is nothing to them... They NEED CARLOS LEE.  Maybe they'll give us Lowrie or Ellsbury in exchange.  Might as well ask, if we're going to take a trip to never never land. 

Since they already gave us Angel Sanchez for Kevin Cash we should probably just give them Lee so the trade is a bit more fair.