Conference Realignment

[Andyzipp]

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1090747

Basic Gist is that the PAC-10 is set to invite Texas, A&M, Tech, OU, OSU and Colorado to be members of the new PAC16.

All schools would play in the East Division with Arizona & ASU.

Not sure how I feel about this...

[MusicMan]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Report-Pac-10-to-strike-first-with-blockbuster-?urn=ncaaf,245537

Not sure if this is a better deal for Texas than trying to convince SEC to take UT/TAMU/FSU/Clemson.

[Rebel Jew]

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1090747

Basic Gist is that the PAC-10 is set to invite Texas, A&M, Tech, OU, OSU and Colorado to be members of the new PAC16.

All schools would play in the East Division with Arizona & ASU.

Not sure how I feel about this...

Colorado, Tech, and maybe OSU should jump jump jump at the opportunity

Texas needs to hold out for the Big 10.  OU and A&M need to hold out for a better-looking cow

[HudsonHawk]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Report-Pac-10-to-strike-first-with-blockbuster-?urn=ncaaf,245537

Not sure if this is a better deal for Texas than trying to convince SEC to take UT/TAMU/FSU/Clemson.

I can help you there...it's not.

[MusicMan]

I can help you there...it's not.

If it's a bird in the hand, it might be.  SEC might just keep rolling in their TV contracts.

[HudsonHawk]

If it's a bird in the hand, it might be.  SEC might just keep rolling in their TV contracts.

Well, if the SEC never actually *does* invite UT, then yeah, this is a better deal.  But the best thing for UT is to join the SEC.

[Andyzipp]

If it's a bird in the hand, it might be.  SEC might just keep rolling in their TV contracts.

I've heard from more than a few that Texas doesn't want the SEC, based on cultural fit and academics.

[Bench]

I've heard from more than a few that Texas doesn't want the SEC, based on cultural fit and academics.

I can't imagine that UT would want a bunch of west coast games due to TV ratings.

[HudsonHawk]

I've heard from more than a few that Texas doesn't want the SEC, based on cultural fit and academics.

Why?  They fit right in with respect to both.

[MusicMan]

Why?  They fit right in with respect to both.

Florida and Vanderbilt are the only AAU schools in the SEC.

[Andyzipp]

Why?  They fit right in with respect to both.

You and the Texas alumni may not share the same perception of their school.  The feeling I've gotten to the few folks I've been able to talk to is that Texas feels that they are academically superior to the schools in the SEC and that culturally they fit better with the PAC-10 schools than the SEC.

But any of these types of moves isn't up to the people I talk with about this stuff.

Anyway, the Aggie folks I know are insisting that they are talking to the SEC and aren't thrilled with the idea of a PAC-10 invite other than as a tool to push the SEC to do something.

[HudsonHawk]

Florida and Vanderbilt are the only AAU schools in the SEC.

So?  And I'm having a hard time seeing Texas culturally more "west coast" than "southern".

[Andyzipp]

Florida and Vanderbilt are the only AAU schools in the SEC.

Whereas the BIG 10 has 11 AAU schools (despite their inability to count) and the PAC-10 currently has 7.

[MusicMan]

So?  And I'm having a hard time seeing Texas culturally more "west coast" than "southern".

It's certainly a cultural fit.  But academics?  UT has made it their mission to be the premier public university in the nation.  That's a lot more consistent with surrounding yourself with schools like Cal and Stanford than Auburn and Arkansas.

[MusicMan]

Whereas the BIG 10 has 11 AAU schools (despite their inability to count) and the PAC-10 currently has 7.

Bingo.  I still think the Big Televen research dollars make them the most attractive destination for UT as a whole, and they may be trying to force Delaney's hand here.

[Lurch]

So?  And I'm having a hard time seeing Texas culturally more "west coast" than "southern".

Well, at the pace Californians keep fleeing to Austin that might change quickly.

[94CougarGrad]

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1090747

Basic Gist is that the PAC-10 is set to invite Texas, A&M, Tech, OU, OSU and Colorado to be members of the new PAC16.

All schools would play in the East Division with Arizona & ASU.

Not sure how I feel about this...

Wow. Just... wow. Sounds like a bad idea for the Horns and Sooners, and possibly the Aggies. I wasn't aware of the athletic dept. debt they've got, so I wonder if that limits their options. Maybe not a bad idea for OSU, Tech, and Colorado, but it seems like a weird fit for the first two.

Is Texas really in as much control of the Big 12 as that article says?

[MusicMan]

From the Academic Ranking of World Universities:

2. Stanford
3. Cal
13.  UCLA
16. UW
34.  Coloardo
38.  UT
41.  Vandy
46.  USC
58.  Florida
77.  Arizona
88.  A&M
94.  Arizona State

See why UT might consider their academics more consistent with the Pac-10?

[HudsonHawk]

It's certainly a cultural fit.  But academics?  UT has made it their mission to be the premier public university in the nation.  That's a lot more consistent with surrounding yourself with schools like Cal and Stanford than Auburn and Arkansas.

The SEC, PAC-10, Big 10, etc are sports leagues, not an academic affiliations.  The best move for UT athletics is the SEC.

[MusicMan]

Wow. Just... wow. Sounds like a bad idea for the Horns and Sooners, and possibly the Aggies. I wasn't aware of the athletic dept. debt they've got, so I wonder if that limits their options. Maybe not a bad idea for OSU, Tech, and Colorado, but it seems like a weird fit for the first two.

Is Texas really in as much control of the Big 12 as that article says?

There is no Big 12, realistically.  It's doomed.

[MusicMan]

The SEC, PAC-10, Big 10, etc are sports leagues, not an academic affiliations.  The best move for UT athletics is the SEC.

The universities don't see it that way.  And the Big 10 is most decidedly not just a sports league, it's the most lucrative research consortium in US education.

[Bench]

The SEC, PAC-10, Big 10, etc are sports leagues, not an academic affiliations.  

So not true.

[HudsonHawk]

So not true.

So tell me how playing football against the Auburn will make UT academically worse.

[Andyzipp]

The SEC, PAC-10, Big 10, etc are sports leagues, not an academic affiliations.  The best move for UT athletics is the SEC.

But the ADs don't make conference affiliation decisions.  The Presidents and BORs make those decisions.  And the difference-maker for those groups are research dollars.  An affiliation with the Big 10 brings membership in a pretty prestigeous research group (whose name is escaping me at this point) which makes the reported $22 million dollar football share seem like a drop in the bucket.

Edited to add the group I was looking for was the CIC.  Big money.

[MusicMan]

An affiliation with the Big 10 brings membership in a pretty prestigeous research group (whose name is escaping me at this point) which makes the reported $22 million dollar football share seem like a drop in the bucket.

CIC?

[JimR]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Report-Pac-10-to-strike-first-with-blockbuster-?urn=ncaaf,245537

Not sure if this is a better deal for Texas than trying to convince SEC to take UT/TAMU/FSU/Clemson.

UT does not like the SEC option

[Andyzipp]

CIC?

Yes...and the PAC-10 is a research consortium all unto itself.

I think Texas would go independent if it could, but the Big 10 makes the most sense to me, with the PAC-10 a pretty close second.

[HudsonHawk]

Yes...and the PAC-10 is a research consortium all unto itself.

I think Texas would go independent if it could, but the Big 10 makes the most sense to me, with the PAC-10 a pretty close second.

Why can it not go independent?

[Andyzipp]

Why can it not go independent?

They can (for football...independent for the other sports is problematic), but that is going to depend on a) a network giving them enough money to make it worthwhile or b) the creation of a National Longhorn Sports Network.

I assume that they'd get the same deal from the BCS in this scenario that Notre Dame gets, but Texas would play OU and (maybe) A&M annually and then have to fill in the schedule in a environment that doesn't encourage schools to play tough out of conference opponents.

[Bench]

So tell me how playing football against the Auburn will make UT academically worse.

Because then they wouldn't have access to the research resources of the Big 10 or Pac 10.  The SEC academic cooperation is about as nonexistent as Big 12.

The point is that these affiliations are more than simply athletic.

[HudsonHawk]

Because then they wouldn't have access to the research resources of the Big 10 or Pac 10.  The SEC academic cooperation is about as nonexistent as Big 12.

The point is that these affiliations are more than simply athletic.

Well, the SEC has one, though it's relatively new.  I don't know where it will be in say, 10 years, in terms of research dollars.

[Rebel Jew]

Because then they wouldn't have access to the research resources of the Big 10 or Pac 10.  The SEC academic cooperation is about as nonexistent as Big 12.

The point is that these affiliations are more than simply athletic.

we had another thread about this a few months ago, based on some really thorough and well-written article some guy wrote about UT and big 10 expansion.  if UT joins the Big 10 it not only gets a huge slice of the Big 10's massive TV contract + a chunk of the revenue from a big 10 championship game, but it instantly makes the Big 10 network skyrocket in value because every cable company in Texas will pick it up.  beyond that, UT gets to spread its brand and recruiting base to a huge new territory, and is all-but guaranteed 3-5 national prime time games a year if it keeps the OU and A&M games on the schedule (also OSU, Michigan, and Penn State).  the concept of cultural fitness, in the sense of geographic similarity or southerners with southerners or whatever, is myopic and archaic.

[drew corleone]

I wouldn't be too upset if that happens. We'd keep a fun biennial roadie to Stillwater and add one to Boulder and Greater Phoenix.

Plus hopefully more trips to the Rose Bowl.

[Andyzipp]

we had another thread about this a few months ago, based on some really thorough and well-written article some guy wrote about UT and big 10 expansion.  if UT joins the Big 10 it not only gets a huge slice of the Big 10's massive TV contract + a chunk of the revenue from a big 10 championship game, but it instantly makes the Big 10 network skyrocket in value because every cable company in Texas will pick it up.  beyond that, UT gets to spread its brand and recruiting base to a huge new territory, and is all-but guaranteed 3-5 national prime time games a year if it keeps the OU and A&M games on the schedule (also OSU, Michigan, and Penn State).  the concept of cultural fitness, in the sense of geographic similarity or southerners with southerners or whatever, is myopic and archaic.

If Texas and A&M end up in different conferences, the only way they'll continue to play one another is if they're forced to.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Pardon me if I'm stating the obvious but isn't this a clear ploy by the Big 12 to renegotiate for a better TV deal? 

[Andyzipp]

Pardon me if I'm stating the obvious but isn't this a clear ploy by the Big 12 to renegotiate for a better TV deal? 

Bebee doesn't even have a new TV deal on his radar.

[Alkie]

Bebee doesn't even have a new TV deal on his radar.

And I ask you......how is that fucking possible?

Even up here they show ALL the BigXII football games on either MSG or one of the local channels.  It's pretty fucking clear that a BigXII Network would get picked up and watched around the country.

[MusicMan]

And I ask you......how is that fucking possible?

Back to my earlier point... Beebe knows that the Big 12 is a dead man walking.

[jbm]

In the PAC 10 scenario, anyone heard speculation about Baylor, or the rest of the non-Mizzu\Neb north?

[austro]

Back to my earlier point... Beebe knows that the Big 12 is a dead man walking.

Nobody puts Beebe in a corner!

[JimR]

Pardon me if I'm stating the obvious but isn't this a clear ploy by the Big 12 to renegotiate for a better TV deal? 

absolutely not. this is no ploy.

[BudGirl]

Back to my earlier point... Beebe knows that the Big 12 is a dead man walking.

Why is it dying?  I really have no idea.

[Andyzipp]

And I ask you......how is that fucking possible?

Even up here they show ALL the BigXII football games on either MSG or one of the local channels.  It's pretty fucking clear that a BigXII Network would get picked up and watched around the country.

Well, first of all, not all the Big 12 football games are televised, so what you're saying is impossible.

Texas and OU, sure, but none of the rest have all (or 11 of 12) of their games televised. Mainly because, (not even accounting for the money piece of it) the Big 12 has the worst television contract of the BCS conferences.

All Big 10 and I'm pretty sure that all SEC football games are televised at least regionally. The freaking ACC has recently cut a similar deal.

But Beebe is ineffectual, Nebraska (and lord Tom Osborn) are disgruntled, Missouri is out the door when the Big 10 gets the 'w' in "Would you like to join us?" out of their mouths. So the rest of the schools are looking out for themselves as much as they can.  Texas, A&M, Nebraska and OU can negotiate terms to their benefits.  The rest, it appears are going to be left out to dry.

I can tell you from the Aggie perspective, the PAC-16 rumor is going to be considered as option 2, because A&M is going to beg for an offer from the SEC.  And then they're going to beg the State to not block the move.

Oddly, a school like Kansas is going to have limited options in this new world, unless the Big 10 goes ape shit.

And then there's Baylor, who looks like an add for Conference USA or the Mountain West.

[Andyzipp]

Why is it dying?  I really have no idea.

It was a forced relationship to begin with, and the SWC schools and the Big 8 schools have a very tenuous relationship.  That and the football television contract, along with the revenue sharing structure that the teams have are the big sticking points.

Texas is going to (unfairly) get a lot of the blame for this, but the big schools (Texas, A&M, Nebraska, OU) created the current revenue scheme (which is uneven, but someone else can explain exactly how better than me.)  Texas has been, based on their superior performances in all sports, the biggest beneficiary of this revenue sharing scheme, and now the other schools are bitching about it.

[JackAstro]

Andy, bless you for having a reasoned and informed perspective. You're the best Longhorn cum Aggie I know.

As far as Texas receiving unequal revenue, it's true, but vastly overstated. I think the gap between TV revenue for the top school (Texas) and the bottom (Baylor) is something like $3 million, with every other school falling somewhere on the scale in between. It's a handy crutch for painting Texas as the conference bully, but there's not much substance to it.

[Andyzipp]

Andy, bless you for having a reasoned and informed perspective. You're the best Longhorn cum Aggie I know.

As far as Texas receiving unequal revenue, it's true, but vastly overstated. I think the gap between TV revenue for the top school (Texas) and the bottom (Baylor) is something like $3 million, with every other school falling somewhere on the scale in between. It's a handy crutch for painting Texas as the conference bully, but there's not much substance to it.

The gap was 3 million in 2007 when it was last public information.  It's gotten greater in the last 2 years, but how much greater is known only by the conference, and they ain't telling.

Regardless, if Texas (or any school) is making 12 million from Conference revenues now and could make 22 by going elsewhere, I think they have to look.

[JackAstro]

The gap was 3 million in 2007 when it was last public information.  It's gotten greater in the last 2 years, but how much greater is known only by the conference, and they ain't telling.

Regardless, if Texas (or any school) is making 12 million from Conference revenues now and could make 22 by going elsewhere, I think they have to look.

Most definitely. The Big 12 is a zombie, for all the reasons you mentioned before.

[MusicMan]

In light of this, In n' Out Burger's expansion into Texas makes much more sense.

[Bench]

Andy, bless you for having a reasoned and informed perspective. You're the best Longhorn cum Aggie I know.

As far as Texas receiving unequal revenue, it's true, but vastly overstated. I think the gap between TV revenue for the top school (Texas) and the bottom (Baylor) is something like $3 million, with every other school falling somewhere on the scale in between. It's a handy crutch for painting Texas as the conference bully, but there's not much substance to it.

Regardless, I think it's safe to say that UT is squarely responsible for the demise of the Big 12.

[Alkie]

Regardless, I think it's safe to say that UT is squarely responsible for the demise of the Big 12.

With pride.

[Ron Brand]

With pride.

Hook 'em, you chumps.

[kevwun]

The Pac-16 move makes the most sense to me as it accounts for state politics and keeps existing rivalries in tact.  From what I've read, all of Texas' talk about creating it's own network has really pissed off the powers that be at TAMU and has been a big part of them looking at the SEC.  If Texas were to shelve that idea, I think a move west would be much more palatable to the Aggie administration.  Combining the Texas and California markets would have the networks tripping over each order to ink a new tv deal and create a conference network.

[Andyzipp]

The Pac-16 move makes the most sense to me as it accounts for state politics and keeps existing rivalries in tact.  From what I've read, all of Texas' talk about creating it's own network has really pissed off the powers that be at TAMU and has been a big part of them looking at the SEC.  If Texas were to shelve that idea, I think a move west would be much more palatable to the Aggie administration.  Combining the Texas and California markets would have the networks tripping over each order to ink a new tv deal and create a conference network.

If Texas shelves the idea of the LSN, then A&M signs with the Pac16.  The TAMU administration appears to be willing to fight over this point.

[CarolinaStro]

The word from the Big10 is that UT and Notre Dame are a package deal in the sense that neither wants to be left out if the other is in the new conference.  Also, UT and ND are intent on playing each other every year as a counterbalance to UM/OSU.  Also, everyone agrees no SEC move.  This is going to happen is the vibe.

[kevwun]

I didn't hear Beebe's press conference, but some excerpts I've read make me think the Big 12 is dead.  With all the stuff going on, the biggest announcement you make is about the future sites of championship games?  Sounds like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic to me.

[Duke]

UT does not like the SEC option

Why is this Coach?  From a Baseball, Football and Basketball perspective it seems like a good fit.

[roadrunner]

The word from the Big10 is that UT and Notre Dame are a package deal in the sense that neither wants to be left out if the other is in the new conference.  Also, UT and ND are intent on playing each other every year as a counterbalance to UM/OSU.  Also, everyone agrees no SEC move.  This is going to happen is the vibe.

Where do you hear this?

[JimR]

Why is this Coach?  From a Baseball, Football and Basketball perspective it seems like a good fit.

read the thread. the answer is in there repeatedly.

[Lurch]

Seems we have a "Tech" Problem

[JackAstro]

If Texas shelves the idea of the LSN, then A&M signs with the Pac16.  The TAMU administration appears to be willing to fight over this point.

Since a conference network is one of the major points of the expansion (at least in Chip Brown's article), that would seem to be self-fulfilling. I don't imagine Texas would be allowed to create its own network if it signs on with the new Megamericonference 16.

[JackAstro]

Seems we have a "Tech" Problem

Sounds like the Big 10 has a Tech problem. I'm surprised Stanford doesn't have a Tech problem, but the internet's never been wrong before...

[MusicMan]

the new Megamericonference 16.

I've seen "Inland" division for the UT side of it, but why don't we just call it the Southwest?

[JackAstro]

I've seen "Inland" division for the UT side of it, but why don't we just call it the Southwest?

I'd heard Pacific and Southwest, but again... the internets. Tell you what, I'll go put it on Wiki to try and gain some traction.

[kevwun]

Oregon St is a tier 3 school, just like Tech and Okie St.  Arizona St and Oregon aren't anything special, either.

[OregonStrosFan]

Oregon St is a tier 3 school, just like Tech and Okie St.  Arizona St and Oregon aren't anything special, either.

I've got no particular interest in the team, but disagree about Oregon. Nike proximity and Phil Knight's money, among other things, have started to make it one of the more premier destinations for recruits.  The facilities are incredible.  They've reestablished their baseball program.  Lots of things to say that Oregon will continue to grow in overall strength.

[Lurch]

I've got no particular interest in the team, but disagree about Oregon. Nike proximity and Phil Knight's money, among other things, have started to make it one of the more premier destinations for recruits.  The facilities are incredible.  They've reestablished their baseball program.  Lots of things to say that Oregon will continue to grow in overall strength.

I think in this context its an academic tier they're discussing

[JackAstro]

Oregon St is a tier 3 school, just like Tech and Okie St.  Arizona St and Oregon aren't anything special, either.

http://www.arwu.org/Country2009Main.jsp?param=United%20States

45  Arizona
53  Arizona State
56-70  Oregon St
91-112  Oregon

113-138  Texas Tech
113-138  Oklahoma
NR  Oklahoma State

And we're talking about voting on expansion, which means Arizona and Arizona State are the most relevant comparisons. There's a pretty damn big academic gap between the last expansion and the proposed one.

[Rebel Jew]

Oregon St is a tier 3 school, just like Tech and Okie St.  Arizona St and Oregon aren't anything special, either.

after living in a pac 10 area for the last 5 years (and long ago living in one for 2), it's obvious that the Pac 10 doesn't have the, i don't know if excitement is the right word, maybe passion, that other conferences have.  you have a collection of individual regional rivalries with Oregon-OSU, Cal-Stanford, UCLA-USC, ASU-UA, UW-WSU, but not a huge sense of connectedness from one area to the other.  furthermore, pretty much all the Pac 10 schools, with the exception of OSU and WSU (and maybe UA), reside in or near big, hip cities, or areas that have a thriving regional culture, where most of the people could care less about college football.  so, i mean, you don't have these situations like in Texas, the midwest, or deep south, where people's lives are so consumed by college football that politicians will literally pass legislation relating to their football rooting interests and pander for cheap votes by vowing to do stuff like force congress to get involved in the BCS.  the pac 10 may have some academic powerhouses in Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and USC, they may also reside in some gigantic new media markets, but aside from that and maybe a devoted baseball fanbase, i don't really see the big appeal.  the Big 12 schools are going to be in for a huge culture shock/clash if they are really serious about this merger.

[OregonStrosFan]

I think in this context its an academic tier they're discussing

Uhhhh, oops!

[Bench]

after living in a pac 10 area for the last 5 years (and long ago living in one for 2), it's obvious that the Pac 10 doesn't have the, i don't know if excitement is the right word, maybe passion, that other conferences have.  you have a collection of individual regional rivalries with Oregon-OSU, Cal-Stanford, UCLA-USC, ASU-UA, UW-WSU, but not a huge sense of connectedness from one area to the other.  furthermore, pretty much all the Pac 10 schools, with the exception of OSU and WSU (and maybe UA), reside in or near big, hip cities, or areas that have a thriving regional culture, where most of the people could care less about college football.  so, i mean, you don't have these situations like in Texas, the midwest, or deep south, where people's lives are so consumed by college football that politicians will literally pass legislation relating to their football rooting interests and pander for cheap votes by vowing to do stuff like force congress to get involved in the BCS.  the pac 10 may have some academic powerhouses in Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and USC, they may also reside in some gigantic new media markets, but aside from that and maybe a devoted baseball fanbase, i don't really see the big appeal.  the Big 12 schools are going to be in for a huge culture shock/clash if they are really serious about this merger.

In that case, it will be even funnier when they get hit in the face with a tortilla.

[kevwun]

http://www.arwu.org/Country2009Main.jsp?param=United%20States

45  Arizona
53  Arizona State
56-70  Oregon St
91-112  Oregon

113-138  Texas Tech
113-138  Oklahoma
NR  Oklahoma State

And we're talking about voting on expansion, which means Arizona and Arizona State are the most relevant comparisons. There's a pretty damn big academic gap between the last expansion and the proposed one.

I don't know which set of rankings are more accurate, but your list is completely different from US News and World which is where my numbers came from.

[subnuclear]

I don't know which set of rankings are more accurate, but your list is completely different from US News and World which is where my numbers came from.

I believe the ARWU is more of a measure of research prestige and the USN&WR is quality of undergrad education. 

[kevwun]

That makes sense.

[JackAstro]

I believe the ARWU is more of a measure of research prestige and the USN&WR is quality of undergrad education.  

Right, ARWU is about ranking the world's research universities, which is important because it's the research consortiums that the universities (who care) are concerned with in realignment. Arizona State is a pretty good research university, in spite of its slapdick but visually pleasing undergrad program. Oklahoma State is decidedly not.

[HudsonHawk]

Seems we have a "Tech" Problem

I don't know why it would be a problem to leave Tech out of a move.  The State had no problems leaving UH out of the move from the old SWC.  And speaking of the old SWC...here's a crazy thought...bring it back with all the rest of the Texas schools...UH, Baylor, Tech, TCU, SMU, Rice and add UTEP.  Hell, throw in Okie St. to make it an even eight.

[MusicMan]

You know there's no money in that, HH.

[Andyzipp]

I don't know it would be a problem to leave Tech out of a move.  The State had no problems leaving UH out of the move from the old SWC.  And speaking of the old SWC...here's a crazy thought...bring it back with all the rest of the Texas schools...UH, Baylor, Tech, TCU, SMU, Rice and add UTEP.  Hell, throw in Okie St. to make it an even eight.

You couldn't get Channel 20 to televise that conference.

[HudsonHawk]

You know there's no money in that, HH.

Which is why it's crazy.  But it would be fun.  I sometimes miss the old SWC like it was when I was in school, not because of the money, but it was just fun knowing you were always playing other Texas schools.

[HudsonHawk]

You couldn't get Channel 20 to televise that conference.

I don't know why it would be any worse than Conference USA.

[JackAstro]

You know there's no money in that, HH.

There will be once they negotiate a deal with Home Sports Entertainment. Hmm? Oh.

[sporadic]

In that case, it will be even funnier when they get hit in the face with a tortilla.

so incredibly fucking nominated

[Lurch]

The Astros network is going to need programming.

[BUWebguy]

There will be once they negotiate a deal with Home Sports Entertainment. Hmm? Oh.

The best conference in America, airing via the best team on TV! Sic 'em, wreck 'em, and, uh, peck 'em?

[Andyzipp]

I don't know why it would be any worse than Conference USA.

Well, for one thing, Conference USA actually exists. The SWC, not so much.

You're going to need to get 12 teams to make this "viable". Go ahead and get North Texas as well.  And SWTS wants to be a FBS school so add them. Sam Houston should follow...

So you've got

North           
TCU             
SMU           
North Texas 
Texas Tech
UTEP
Stephen F Austin

South
Houston
Rice
Baylor
Sam Houston
Southwest Texas State
Texas A&I

I'm in!

[HudsonHawk]

Well, for one thing, Conference USA actually exists. The SWC, not so much.

You're going to need to get 12 teams to make this "viable". Go ahead and get North Texas as well.  And SWTS wants to be a FBS school so add them. Sam Houston should follow...

So you've got

North           
TCU             
SMU           
North Texas 
Texas Tech
UTEP
Stephen F Austin

South
Houston
Rice
Baylor
Sam Houston
Southwest Texas State
Texas A&I

I'm in!

What's that school up there in Stephenville...the one with all the girls with big titties?  They got a football team?

[BudGirl]

Well, for one thing, Conference USA actually exists. The SWC, not so much.

You're going to need to get 12 teams to make this "viable". Go ahead and get North Texas as well.  And SWTS wants to be a FBS school so add them. Sam Houston should follow...

So you've got

North           
TCU             
SMU           
North Texas 
Texas Tech
UTEP
Stephen F Austin

South
Houston
Rice
Baylor
Sam Houston
Southwest Texas State
Texas A&I

I'm in!

Andy, STWSU changed its name years ago, it is not Texas State.  I thought you knew stuff.

[subnuclear]

What's that school up there in Stephenville...the one with all the girls with big titties?  They got a football team?

Tarleton State?

[HudsonHawk]

Tarleton State?

THAT'S the one!  I have no idea if they play sports, or where they rank in the world of "research", but I swear there's more titty per person there than any school I've ever seen.

[Andyzipp]

Andy, STWSU changed its name years ago, it is not Texas State.  I thought you knew stuff.

No they didn't.  Did they also change their mascot the Armadillos?

Is Manumana The Slender still on the roster?

[Andyzipp]

THAT'S the one!  I have no idea if they play sports, or where they rank in the world of "research", but I swear there's more titty per person there than any school I've ever seen.

I'm on board.  Drop Texas A&I and add Tittyton State!

[EasTexAstro]

I'm on board.  Drop Texas A&I and add Tittyton State!

I went to an IT conference there a couple of times. I say add them.

[Outlawscotty]

UT in San Antonio might be up for that once they begin their football program.

[MusicMan]

No they didn't.  Did they also change their mascot the Armadillos?

Is Manumana The Slender still on the roster?

If Kathy Ireland is still the kicker, I'll watch.

[MusicMan]

Classic take on expansion

[Alkie]

North           
TCU             
SMU           
North Texas 
Texas Tech
UTEP
Stephen F Austin

Where do I sign?

[OregonStrosFan]

Classic take on expansion

Awesome!

[austro]

North           
TCU             
SMU           
North Texas 
Texas Tech
UTEP
Stephen F Austin

I'm geographically challenged, but is there a school further SOUTH than UTEP?

[subnuclear]

I'm geographically challenged, but is there a school further SOUTH than UTEP?

Austin is south of El Paso.

[Andyzipp]

I'm geographically challenged, but is there a school further SOUTH than UTEP?

Texas, A&M, Houston, Rice, Texas State, Sam Houston, A&M Kingsville, A&M Corpus Christi, HBU, Southwestern, Concordia, all 29 colleges in San Antonio.

That's just off the top of my head.

[HudsonHawk]

Texas, A&M, Houston, Rice, Texas State, Sam Houston, A&M Kingsville, A&M Corpus Christi, HBU, Southwestern, Concordia, all 29 colleges in San Antonio.

That's just off the top of my head.

And that's just in Texas.  If you want to go outside the state, LSU and all the schools in Florida are farther (but not necessarily further) south.

[Duke]

read the thread. the answer is in there repeatedly.

Sorry, I did read the thread. Thought you had  a different/new perspective.

[austro]

Consider me smacked down.

[94CougarGrad]

I don't know why it would be a problem to leave Tech out of a move.  The State had no problems leaving UH out of the move from the old SWC.  And speaking of the old SWC...here's a crazy thought...bring it back with all the rest of the Texas schools...UH, Baylor, Tech, TCU, SMU, Rice and add UTEP.  Hell, throw in Okie St. to make it an even eight.

You and I know that dog won't hunt. At least in C-USA our teams get the chance to be televised in non-Houston markets... which is great until you have a UTEP-like fiasco, as the Coogs are wont to do.

I do miss the old SWC days, though. Just about every game felt like a big rivalry.

[JimR]

Sorry, I did read the thread. Thought you had  a different/new perspective.

in a word, academics.

[Lurch]

Sound familiar?

[Alkie]

Fucking ridiculous.

Baylor got 16 more years than they deserved in a premier conference.   With all the 2nd and 3rd tier universities in Texas with semi-wealthy alumni and politicians in their pockets, why does Baylor get special treatment in a post-Richards Texas?

[austro]

Fucking ridiculous.

Baylor got 16 more years than they deserved in a premier conference.   With all the 2nd and 3rd tier universities in Texas with semi-wealthy alumni and politicians in their pockets, why does Baylor get special treatment in a post-Richards Texas?

Screw 'em. Nobody stood up for Rice, TCU, or SMU when the SWC crashed and burned. I've never understood why Baylor was plucked from the waters.

[Alkie]

Screw 'em. Nobody stood up for Rice, TCU, or SMU when the SWC crashed and burned. I've never understood why Baylor was plucked from the waters.

Exactly.   I'm no fan of SMU or TCU either, but if I'm picking a private Christian school in Texas to put in my sporting conference, it's TCU.   If I need academics, there's not even a real debate here; too bad Rice isn't better at sports.    Baylor is not an outstanding school, has below average money athletics (usually), and isn't in a major city.

[sporadic]

Screw 'em. Nobody stood up for Rice, TCU, or SMU when the SWC crashed and burned. I've never understood why Baylor was plucked from the waters.

Baylor has some incredibly influential alumni

[austro]

Baylor has some incredibly influential alumni

So do the others. I can understand why Rice was left out, but I sure would have picked Baylor 3rd in a Baylor-TCU-SMU cage match.

[Ron Brand]

So do the others. I can understand why Rice was left out, but I sure would have picked Baylor 3rd in a Baylor-TCU-SMU cage match.

I thought the Pac-10 had member schools who took a blood oath to never approve a religious school to be part of the conference?

[sporadic]

So do the others. I can understand why Rice was left out, but I sure would have picked Baylor 3rd in a Baylor-TCU-SMU cage match.

I am telling you, I think Baylor has far more political pull than TCU and SMU.  I have a good idea who some of the possible players are in that game, and they can sure as hell draw some water.

[Ron Brand]

I am telling you, I think Baylor has far more political pull than TCU and SMU.  I have a good idea who some of the possible players are in that game, and they can sure as hell draw some water.

They have some serious connections with House Appropriations, which controls where the money goes. Not sure about Senate connections.

[Alkie]

I thought the Pac-10 had member schools who took a blood oath to never approve a religious school to be part of the conference?

Is that right?   Guess I have to reconsider my feelings on the Pac 10.

[Ron Brand]

Is that right?   Guess I have to reconsider my feelings on the Pac 10.

I think it was either Stanford or Cal.

[Bench]

I thought the Pac-10 had member schools who took a blood oath to never approve a religious school to be part of the conference?

That's what I've read as well.

[BizidyDizidy]

The only objection I've ever heard (specifically in the case of BYU) is not playing games on Sunday (really complicates scheduling, especially baseball). BYU and Utah as Pac12 possibilities have been mention a thousand times in the past on my Stanford boards and I've never heard anyone mention that.

[Clark in Denver]

There is real worry here that Baylor will fuck Colorado out of a spot in the new Pac-10, if it happens. 

[Andyzipp]

In another example of how completely effed up the B12 is...Bebee gives Nebraska (and Mizzou) an "ultimatum" to pledge their love by Friday.

And if they simply don't respond, watch out, because...nothing will happen to them.

I just wish that the NCAA (or someone better) would organize "conferences" by taking the top 96 FBS teams, group them regionally into 8 sets of 12 teams and put in a 8 or 16-team playoff.

I also wish for eleventy billion dollars to be placed in my checking account this evening.  Or tomorrow.  I'm not picky.

[Lurch]

In another example of how completely effed up the B12 is...Bebee gives Nebraska (and Mizzou) an "ultimatum" to pledge their love by Friday.

And if they simply don't respond, watch out, because...nothing will happen to them.

I just wish that the NCAA (or someone better) would organize "conferences" by taking the top 96 FBS teams, group them regionally into 8 sets of 12 teams and put in a 8 or 16-team playoff.

I also wish for eleventy billion dollars to be placed in my checking account this evening.  Or tomorrow.  I'm not picky.

And just how binding is that pledge anyway?

[Ron Brand]

Not only will their hands have to be in plain sight, but they'll also be barefoot to make sure no toes are crossed.

[Andyzipp]

Not only will their hands have to be in plain sight, but they'll also be barefoot to make sure no toes are crossed.

And why should it be any different?  Every team in this conference, heck, in the FBS, should be looking out for themselves.

To think that Texas has the best interests of Nebraska, Baylor, A&M or anyone other that the University of Texas is just foolhardy.

Nebraska should be playing their hand close to their vests.

[JackAstro]

You know, I just remembered that the Pac-10 has even less idea of what the fuck they're doing than the Big 12 does. As such, I have preemptively invited the 4 California and 2 Arizona schools to join the Big 12 instead. First 5 to accept get in, so hurry the fuck up,  gents.

Missouri will be banished as an example to the others of what happens when you step out of line. Good luck with that Big Ten invite, and remember that it'd look sexier if you'd stop sobbing and fix yourself up a bit.

[Duman]

In another example of how completely effed up the B12 is...Bebee gives Nebraska (and Mizzou) an "ultimatum" to pledge their love by Friday.

And if they simply don't respond, watch out, because...nothing will happen to them.

Reminds me of some parenting I have observed at parks, grocery stores and eating establishments. 

Ineffective parent: "stop it.... i mean it... I said stop it.... NOW..... One....Two....Thr...I said to stop that right now..........

[JackAstro]

Reminds me of some parenting I have observed at parks, grocery stores and eating establishments. 

Ineffective parent: "stop it.... i mean it... I said stop it.... NOW..... One....Two....Thr...I said to stop that right now..........

I just taze mine.

[Duman]

I just taze mine.

The ineffective parents? Cool I like the idea.

[94CougarGrad]

Baylor has some incredibly influential alumni big fucking whiners

FIFY

(Not knockin' Baylor, just some of their alumnuses.)

[Waldo]

In another example of how completely effed up the B12 is...Bebee gives Nebraska (and Mizzou) an "ultimatum" to pledge their love by Friday.

And if they simply don't respond, watch out, because...nothing will happen to them.

It's just posturing, but it's not without purpose.  If one or both of them say they're leaving, then a school like Texas gets to save face by pursuing the Pac10/Big10 without looking like the bad guy.  If they stay, then they work together on a new TV deal (at least, that's what's supposed to happen).

[Lurch]

This is a very interesting read

Says Bebee got played by Big 10s commish Jim Delany and effectivily killed the Big 12 back in 2008 when he decided not to support replacing the BCS with a playoff. 

[Rebel Jew]

This is a very interesting read

Says Bebee got played by Big 10s commish Jim Delany and effectivily killed the Big 12 back in 2008 when he decided not to support replacing the BCS with a playoff. 

That's a pretty serious claim Wetzel is making, but I call BS.  Does he really believe that the commissioners of the Big 12 and Big East were so naive as to buy into the tired missed classes, bowl tradition argument and not understand the financial implications?  Or that the Big 10 commish is really some mastermind who played everybody like a puppeteer?

[Ron Brand]

OB is reporting that Nebraska has informally agreed to accept an invitation from the Big Ten and join them, leaving the Big 12, which will cause the conference to dissolve. An official announcement is supposed to be made Friday.

[Andyzipp]

OB is reporting that Nebraska has informally agreed to accept an invitation from the Big Ten and join them, leaving the Big 12, which will cause the conference to dissolve. An official announcement is supposed to be made Friday.

This is now being reported by multiple sources.  

Also being reported is that Texas & A&M officials are having a private meeting this evening to discuss their stance(s) on the now very immediate idea that there will be a realignment.

ETA: Meeting is Thursday, not this evening.

[Ron Brand]

I like that it was Nebraska who pulled the trigger to kill the Big 12.

[austro]

I like that it was Nebraska who pulled the trigger to kill the Big 12.

I imagine that they like it, too. It's kind of their final "fuck you" to Texas. But they're still not going to get any lower qualification standards for their recruits in the Big 10+1+N.

[Bench]

OB is reporting that Nebraska has informally agreed to accept an invitation from the Big Ten and join them, leaving the Big 12, which will cause the conference to dissolve. An official announcement is supposed to be made Friday.

Hooray!

[Andyzipp]

Sucks to be Mizzou.  New rumor is that with Nebraska's (alleged) invite, Notre Dame (fuckers) is again entertaining an invite to the Big 10+110+2.  Which means that the Big 10+110+2 has put all other movement on hold.  Further, ND has refused to be tied to any kind of timeframe to make a decision.

So Missouri is in as shitty a position as Kansas now.

[Lurch]

I imagine that they like it, too. It's kind of their final "fuck you" to Texas. But they're still not going to get any lower qualification standards for their recruits in the Big 10+1+N.

So, If the Big 10 only wants two schools and ND is one, whats to stop them from changing their tune and taking Texas instead of Nebraska?

...because that Fuck You back would be fantastic.

[Ron Brand]

Chip Brown of OB reports that the UT AD and President gathered the coaches at 2 p.m. to tell them they did all they could to save the Big 12 but were unsuccessful.

[JimR]

So, If the Big 10 only wants two schools and ND is one, whats to stop them from changing their tune and taking Texas instead of Nebraska?

...because that Fuck You back would be fantastic.

word is, UT does not want to go to the Big 10.

[Ron Brand]

Pairing up with the Pac 10 does seem to be a better fit all the way around. It's going to be interesting to see what happens to Colorado, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Kansas and Kansas State.

[JimR]

Pairing up with the Pac 10 does seem to be a better fit all the way around. It's going to be interesting to see what happens to Colorado, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Kansas and Kansas State.

OSU is with OU in this process. they go to the Pac 10.

[Ron Brand]

OSU is with OU in this process. they go to the Pac 10.

I know that's the preferred and expected plan, but the Baylor dustup and Colorado's latest academic crapping of the bed brought OSU into a little bit of question. The Baylor stuff seems to be sorting out though, and OSU looks to be rejoined at the hip with OU. Do you know how the CU stuff is being taken?

[JimR]

I know that's the preferred and expected plan, but the Baylor dustup and Colorado's latest academic crapping of the bed brought OSU into a little bit of question. The Baylor stuff seems to be sorting out though, and OSU looks to be rejoined at the hip with OU. Do you know how the CU stuff is being taken?

no. i do not know a whole lot more than what Chip Brown has reported. i did hear today that many male and female UT coaches opposed the Big 10 for weather and distance reasons.

[Clark in Denver]

Chip Brown on ESPN reporting Colorado to Pac-10.

[Astroholic]

Pairing up with the Pac 10 does seem to be a better fit all the way around. It's going to be interesting to see what happens to Colorado, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Kansas and Kansas State.

And UH.  Heard rumor today that they are in the negotiations.  Wishful thinking....Maybe, but as Andujar always said............


Except Tommy Boy and his fine recruiting might bring us down a notch
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/houston/7044970.html

[Ron Brand]

And UH.  Heard rumor today that they are in the negotiations.  Wishful thinking....Maybe, but as Andujar always said............

UH is not invited to this party. Sorry.

[Lurch]

Has anyone found a good discussion on the BCS implications of this, contractually?  Does it all fall apart and become open for new dicussions of terms, or does it remain through 2016 (?) with a disolved Big12s spot becoming an at large?

[Ron Brand]

I haven't seen anything but the conference won't be gone until after 2012, I think.

[Alkie]

Ok, so 11 game regular season, 7 of those games against each team in your division.   You get rid of non conference games or do you only play each team in the other division once every 8 years? 

[Astroholic]

UH is not invited to this party. Sorry.

Okay Boss.

[BizidyDizidy]

Ok, so 11 game regular season, 7 of those games against each team in your division.   You get rid of non conference games or do you only play each team in the other division once every 8 years? 

12 games now - prob 2 interdivision per year

[austro]

12 games now - prob 2 interdivision per year

So USC comes to town once every 8 years?

[BizidyDizidy]

So USC comes to town once every 8 years?

I think so - for me it means about 1 nearbyish game game a year which is nice (assuming its the 4 tx schools and the two OK ones)

[hostros7]

Except Tommy Boy and his fine recruiting might bring us down a notch
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/houston/7044970.html

Based on what I've heard, this is probably the biggest component of why he got canned, making the tournament only complicated what the university already wanted to happen.  The basketball program's graduation rate was embarrassing and an outlier compared to all other sports, and I've been hearing about it being considered a major problem by higher ups in the school for quite some time.  Tommy made no apologies for it and acted like his hands were tied for a variety of reasons. 

[roadrunner]

So USC comes to town once every 8 years?

I understand the advantage for the schools to move to the PAC 10 ($$$), but for the fans and the actual athletes...this is pretty lame.

[JimR]

Okay Boss.

never were, never will be.

[Astroholic]

never were, never will be.

If you are talking about UH..A sleeping giant is awakening, just watch.
If you are talking about being a Boss ...Okay.

[Ron Brand]

Okay Boss.

I don't know what the reason is for the state of the relationship, but it probably transcends something as simple as sports. It can't be a case of 'we really hate that guy' because it has been going on at least since the 70s. I've got several friends who are in various levels of academia and the way those institutions work is inscrutable to me. Maybe it's a money thing, or UT doesn't view them as being in the same academic level, I don't know, but whatever it is it's deep-rooted and isn't going to change anytime soon.

[JimR]

If you are talking about UH..A sleeping giant is awakening, just watch.
If you are talking about being a Boss ...Okay.

sure thing.

[Andyzipp]

If you are talking about UH..A sleeping giant is awakening, just watch.
If you are talking about being a Boss ...Okay.

A sleeping giant could sell out a 32k stadium more than once in a while.

The "never were, never will be" comment was in reference to UH's notion that it was being considered for membership in the PAC 10/16.

[HudsonHawk]

The "never were, never will be" comment was in reference to UH's notion that it was being considered for membership in the PAC 10/16.

I don't know, from what I hear, UH has a better chance of joining the PAC 10 than Astroholic has of being "boss".

[Alkie]

or UT doesn't view them as being in the same academic level

Yathink?

[Andyzipp]

Yathink?

Well, they didn't have to be so mean about it.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

So, has the talk of A&M going to the SEC subsided?  Is it a foregone conclusion, with Nebraska going to the Big 10, that UT and A&M are tied at the hip, with both going to the PAC 10/16?

[Andyzipp]

So, has the talk of A&M going to the SEC subsided?  Is it a foregone conclusion, with Nebraska going to the Big 10, that UT and A&M are tied at the hip, with both going to the PAC 10/16?

Depending on who you want to believe...A&M is still in contact with the SEC (to begin annual gridiron assrapings), but have no offer.

The SEC may feel it's being forced into action with NU to the Big10 and the PAC10's invites.

At the end of the day, I think Texas, A&M, Tech, Colorado, OU and OSU are all headed West, but nothings done yet.

[HudsonHawk]

Well, they didn't have to be so mean about it.

Can't we all just get along?

[BizidyDizidy]

Now reading that the Pac-16's plan is to not have a conference championship but to have 2 auto qualifiers - would be a coup.

Also, any day USC gets slammed is a good one.

[BudGirl]

Can't we all just get along?

no

[HudsonHawk]

no

You're a divider...I'm a uniter.

[Alkie]

I'm a uniter.

Let me write this down.

Hudson Hawk.  Uniter.   Got it.

[jbm]

Now reading that the Pac-16's plan is to not have a conference championship but to have 2 auto qualifiers - would be a coup.

Also, any day USC gets slammed is a good one.

no championship game, and no conference champion???  Where did you read that?  That would take some of the shine off for me.

It's more like a loose association than a conference.

[Rebel Jew]

I understand the advantage for the schools to move to the PAC 10 ($$$), but for the fans and the actual athletes...this is pretty lame.

no this is great for the fans, didn't you read baron von bizidy's post?  now he only has to spend $700 on airfare & hotel to see Stansbury play instead of the $900 he usually spends.  not as many wineries in lubbock though-- damn you PAC 16!!!

[BizidyDizidy]

no championship game, and no conference champion???  Where did you read that?  That would take some of the shine off for me.

It's more like a loose association than a conference.

It'd be like two loosely affiliated 8 team conferences (for football, obviously other sports are different)

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5270048

I haven't seen anything super solid on it but seen in a few places

[BizidyDizidy]

no this is great for the fans, didn't you read baron von bizidy's post?  now he only has to spend $700 on airfare & hotel to see Stansbury play instead of the $900 he usually spends.  not as many wineries in lubbock though-- damn you PAC 16!!!

Yes, it in particular helps Stanford football fans living in Dallas, which is a key demographic to consider in conference decision making.

[Bench]

no championship game, and no conference champion???  Where did you read that?  That would take some of the shine off for me.

It's more like a loose association than a conference.

But think about the eventual title game between two PAC 16 teams that never played each other.

[Alkie]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.  This is about MONEY?

[Clark in Denver]

Buffs to Pac 10, regardless.  Announcement tomorrow.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_15268160

I would like to see the Texas schools join, but I'm very happy that CU won't be on the outside looking in on the new college football landscape.

[Astroholic]

I don't know, from what I hear, UH has a better chance of joining the PAC 10 than Astroholic has of being "boss".

Okay.  The truth is..oh nevermind.

I am not saying the Pac 10, I am saying a BCS conference, which is a step up.  There are powerful people in Texas and the Nation, + a great Chancellor and AD that are working for UH.  The Stadiums (Both Basketball/Football) are going to be either rebuilt or refurbished.  I know that attendance is a problem (DUH!).  I think that gets fixed by the new dorms being built on campus, University METRO Rail line, better conference, large games in Reliant, etc.

Have any of you been on the UH campus in the last 10 years?  Things are changing and they are changing fast.

I am done.

[Bench]

Buffs to Pac 10, regardless.  Announcement tomorrow.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_15268160

I would like to see the Texas schools join, but I'm very happy that CU won't be on the outside looking in on the new college football landscape.

So, as of now, the Big 10 has 12 teams, the Big 12 has 10 teams, and the Pac 10 has 11 teams? 

I think it's time to stop naming conferences after the number of teams in them.

[OregonStrosFan]

I would like to see the Texas schools join, but I'm very happy that CU won't be on the outside looking in on the new college football landscape.

That is looking like it will be my alma mater...  ugh. sic 'em?

[Ron Brand]

Hey, UH moving up helps everybody, I'm all for that. I just took your comment as a possible move to the Pac-16.

[Bench]

Have any of you been on the UH campus in the last 10 years?  Things are changing and they are changing fast.

I have.  Just a couple of months ago, in fact.  And I'm still not following you.

[Astroholic]

Hey, UH moving up helps everybody, I'm all for that. I just took your comment as a possible move to the Pac-16.

Nope.  There are some that are thinking this, but like you I think that is hogwash.

Baylor is going to get screwed in all of this.  Can't say I am all that disappointed in this.

[AtascAstro]

Wow, looks like Tech stands to benefit greatly from being in the right place at the right time...again!  My guess is that A&M / UT really do have different preferences but feel a need to be a significant player in whatever conference they join.  This is best done if they move as a tandem and if they can add a 3rd with Tech, to make a Texas voting block, all the better.  In the Pac-10, that would make Texas above the other two school states but just below California as a single voting interest.  I bet they'd love to take Baylor too, but none of the partners in play have any interest in that, probably for the same reasons.

I think in terms of research consortiums, it is in the state's best interest to have both of it's flagship universities working in a single group.  To the extent that another public Teir 1 research school is desired (as stated by the legislature / governor) then it makes sense to bring Tech along to aid it's progress towards the same.  Currently Tech, UH, UTD, and UTSA are fighting for additional state funding to achieve Teir 1, to the extent this realignment is about academics as much as athletics then Tech has just gained a huge leg up on it's competition.

[Astroholic]

I have.  Just a couple of months ago, in fact.  And I'm still not following you.

Growing from the stepchild into the Prince?
Moving on up to the sky?


Point is that things are changing fast and UH has alot more to offer to one of the current or possibly a new BCS conference.

[Alkie]

Okay.  The truth is..oh nevermind.

I am not saying the Pac 10, I am saying a BCS conference, which is a step up.  There are powerful people in Texas and the Nation, + a great Chancellor and AD that are working for UH.  The Stadiums (Both Basketball/Football) are going to be either rebuilt or refurbished.  I know that attendance is a problem (DUH!).  I think that gets fixed by the new dorms being built on campus, University METRO Rail line, better conference, large games in Reliant, etc.

Have any of you been on the UH campus in the last 10 years?  Things are changing and they are changing fast.

I am done.

Hey man, you ever read any of the threads by AstroFrog?

[Alkie]

Point is that things are changing fast and UH has alot more to offer to one of the current or possibly a new BCS conference.

....than.......what?

[Andyzipp]

Growing from the stepchild into the Prince?
Moving on up to the sky?


Point is that things are changing fast and UH has alot more to offer to one of the current or possibly a new BCS conference.

When this is all said and done, you're going to have the PACHowevermany, the SEC, the BIG10-16, the ACC and the Big East as BCS conferences.

The only hope that UH has to be invited to a BCS conference is if the MWC decides to expand.  None of the other 5 BCS conferences are going to pursue UH.  I'm not trying to be insulting, but they simply don't bring enough to warrant an invitation on their own, and Texas isn't bringing them along.

[JimR]

Hey man, you ever read any of the threads by AstroFrog?

my thought exactly.

[HudsonHawk]

Baylor is going to get screwed in all of this.  Can't say I am all that disappointed in this.

Baylor isn't getting screwed, they're just not gonna get a free ride anymore.

[Astroholic]

Hey man, you ever read any of the threads by AstroFrog?

I though you were my Boof buddy.

[Astroholic]

Baylor isn't getting screwed, they're just not gonna get a free ride anymore.

What about TT and/or OSU? 

[HudsonHawk]

Point is that things are changing fast and UH has alot more to offer to one of the current or possibly a new BCS conference.

Look, I'm a UH alum.  I love my school and want them to do well.  I think they're close to achieving their Tier 1 academic goal, and the athletic department seems to be in capable hands.  But they are simply not a prize for any BCS conference.  They could double their attendance and be ranked in the Top 10 the next five years, and they still won't be courted by a BCS conference.  That's just the way it is.

[Alkie]

I though you were my Boof buddy.

I ain't attacking you, holmes.  I'm in the same boat, feverishly masturbating.

Do I wish I lived in an alternate universe (1966) when UTEP was relevant and would be considered for massive conference expansion?  Sure.   And let me tell you, with Tim Floyd now, UTEP is a lot closer to whatever it is UH thinks it's getting closer to.  We have BRAND new facilities, a big name coach (in both sports), and a school that any retarded chimpanzee with a 720 SAT can get in to.   And we have ZERO chance of being considered real-deal.  I'm over it.  I have no problem with it.   We are who everyone thinks we are.    A third tier private Mexican high school.   I did my grad work there.  So what?  That doesn't make the school better.

UH is, right now, no different.   The early 80s are over.  I'm saying this as the husband of a UH alum; it's a third tier commuter school.   Can you go there and get a great education and make something of yourself?  Of COURSE.   Is it in the same league as UT or A&M?   Puhlease.

[HudsonHawk]

What about TT and/or OSU? 

They're likely going to the new conference.

[Astroholic]

I ain't attacking you, holmes.  I'm in the same boat, feverishly masturbating.

Do I wish I lived in an alternate universe (1966) when UTEP was relevant and would be considered for massive conference expansion?  Sure.   And let me tell you, with Tim Floyd now, UTEP is a lot closer to whatever it is UH thinks it's getting closer to.  We have BRAND new facilities, a big name coach (in both sports), and a school that any retarded chimpanzee with a 720 SAT can get in to.   And we have ZERO chance of being considered real-deal.  I'm over it.  I have no problem with it.   We are who everyone thinks we are.    A third tier private Mexican high school.   I did my grad work there.  So what?  That doesn't make the school better.

UH is, right now, no different.   The early 80s are over.  I'm saying this as the husband of a UH alum; it's a third tier commuter school.   Can you go there and get a great education and make something of yourself?  Of COURSE.   Is it in the same league as UT or A&M?   Puhlease.

UTEP is in Mexico.

[Astroholic]

They're likely going to the new conference.

Free ride?

[Alkie]

UTEP is in Mexico.

No fucking shit, man, that's what I'm trying to say.  And UH is in the hood.  So what?

[HudsonHawk]

No fucking shit, man, that's what I'm trying to say.  And UH is in the hood.  So what?

And there's some damn good eats a few blocks from both campuses.

[Astroholic]

No fucking shit, man, that's what I'm trying to say.  And UH is in the hood.  So what?

Just fucking with you.  

Pal.  Buddy?

[hostros7]

This transition is happening at the worst possible time for UH.  They are going to be left out in the cold, other than a MWC hail mary.  All the momentum that was built by last year's basketball and football (and hopefully more success this year with everyone coming back in football) will be for naught because top recruits aren't going to go play in what will effectively be a I-AA environment (since this transition will likely make an at large bid even more difficult for non-BCS unless a 16 team playoff is implemented).  If all this transition happened three years from now with the (assumed) better recruits and more tangible facility upgrade plans, UH might have had a shot at a Big East/Big 12/ACC (what I'll term the "lesser" BCS's), but it won't happen with the program in it's current state.  UH students and alumni are their own worst enemy and have been for 20 years.  

[HudsonHawk]

Free ride?

More like discounted.  But my comment was about Baylor getting "screwed" by being left out of the big move.  They're not. 

[Astroholic]

This transition is happening at the worst possible time for UH.  They are going to be left out in the cold, other than a MWC hail mary.  All the momentum that was built by last year's basketball and football (and hopefully more success this year with everyone coming back in football) will be for naught because top recruits aren't going to go play in what will effectively be a I-AA environment (since this transition will likely make an at large bid even more difficult for non-BCS unless a 16 team playoff is implemented).  If all this transition happened three years from now with the (assumed) better recruits and more tangible facility upgrade plans, UH might have had a shot at a Big East/Big 12/ACC (what I'll term the "lesser" BCS's), but it won't happen with the program in it's current state.  UH students and alumni are their own worst enemy and have been for 20 years.  

I agree with all of this.  Just hoping for the Hail Mary.

[AtascAstro]

What about TT and/or OSU? 

Both have capitalized on their time in the Big 12 and have dramatically improved their facilities, attendance, and marketability.  Baylor has not, at least not to the same degree.  They have earned their place on the coattails of their more influential in-state peers.

Not really right or wrong, just is.

[BudGirl]

Okay.  The truth is..oh nevermind.

I am not saying the Pac 10, I am saying a BCS conference, which is a step up.  There are powerful people in Texas and the Nation, + a great Chancellor and AD that are working for UH.  The Stadiums (Both Basketball/Football) are going to be either rebuilt or refurbished.  I know that attendance is a problem (DUH!).  I think that gets fixed by the new dorms being built on campus, University METRO Rail line, better conference, large games in Reliant, etc.

Have any of you been on the UH campus in the last 10 years?  Things are changing and they are changing fast.

I am done.

I have.

[Alkie]

Just fucking with you.  

Pal.  Buddy?

Shake on it?

[roadrunner]

I know this was pages ago, but I think there is absolutely no way the PAC 16 passes up on the revenue that would come from a Championship game.  There would still be a very good chance they would get two BCS bids every year on top of that.

[Astroholic]

Shake on it?

have to wait until I can get to my bunk.

[chandler44]

Colorado announces move

The first domino falls.

[BudGirl]

Colorado announces move

The first domino falls.

Isn't this the second one?  Nebraska being the first one?

[chandler44]

From what I can tell this is the first "official" announcement.  The Nebraska rumor came out yesterday but I haven't seen it officially confirmed by the team.

[Andyzipp]

Nebraska isn't official, and won't be until tomorrow.

New rumors:

ESPNRadio says that the SEC is going to offer/has offered A&M and VaTech.
TMZSports (?) is reporting that Okie Lite is announcing a move to the PAC10
Supposedly, the SEC commish is teleconferencing into the A&M/Texas meeting today.
Tech and Baylor will be allowed in when A&M/Texas settle up.
Gov. Goodhair is pushing Texas and A&M to remain together, conference wise.


This is getting good.  Wish I had some popcorn.

[AtascAstro]

Would be really shocked to see this fall out any way other than the Pac16 scenario.  UT would be the biggest single player in the Pac10 and with Tech and A&M would have confidence in its ability to influence the division and conference.  No way it matches that influence in any Big10 or SEC scenario.  As much as A&M would love to join the SEC, it simply isn't in the state's best interest and won't be allowed by the legislative power brokers.

Mizzou really looks dumb, they may end up in the Big10 but they may also end up taking a real step down.  Obviously they would be desirable to whichever of the Big10/SEC decided to expand past 12 first.

[Andyzipp]

Would be really shocked to see this fall out any way other than the Pac16 scenario.  UT would be the biggest single player in the Pac10 and with Tech and A&M would have confidence in its ability to influence the division and conference.  No way it matches that influence in any Big10 or SEC scenario.  As much as A&M would love to join the SEC, it simply isn't in the state's best interest and won't be allowed by the legislative power brokers.

How is a scenario of A&M accepting an invitation to the SEC not in the state's best interest? 

[AtascAstro]

How is a scenario of A&M accepting an invitation to the SEC not in the state's best interest? 

Speaking more along the lines of keeping UT and A&M together, than Pac16  vs SEC(16).  Two reasons...

 - Perceived influence.  State officials, especially elected ones, love to play up their role in the affairs of athletic conferences.  If UT goes one way and A&M goes the other then their attentions are divided and the influence in the respective conferences is reduced.

 - Research $, presuming academic research consortiums are part of the decision process here then does it not seem best to have both institutions in the same group? 

[Andyzipp]

Speaking more along the lines of keeping UT and A&M together, than Pac16  vs SEC(16).  Two reasons...

 - Perceived influence.  State officials, especially elected ones, love to play up their role in the affairs of athletic conferences.  If UT goes one way and A&M goes the other then their attentions are divided and the influence in the respective conferences is reduced.

 - Research $, presuming academic research consortiums are part of the decision process here then does it not seem best to have both institutions in the same group? 

As much as it wouldn't bother me, I doubt they split. But I really don't think A&M in the SEC and Texas in the PAC10/Big10 is anything but a positive for the state.  The two flagship schools representing two power conferences.

A&M and Texas would continue to be AAU schools, so I think the research issues would be lessened.  A&M would be going to a weaker academic conference, but the PAC10 becomes weaker with the additions of Tech and OSU to go along with ASU, OrSU and Washington State.

[subnuclear]

- Research $, presuming academic research consortiums are part of the decision process here then does it not seem best to have both institutions in the same group? 

I don't really understand this aspect to the conference alignment, but I'm pretty sure being in a research consortium with Stanford/U Cal system kind of trumps anything with A&M. 

[Andyzipp]

I don't really understand this aspect to the conference alignment, but I'm pretty sure being in a research consortium with Stanford/U Cal system kind of trumps anything with A&M. 

The Big 10, PAC 10 and SEC all have reciprocal research agreements.

And you're right, Stanford (2), Cal (3), UCLA (11), Washington (14), Colorado (26), Texas (29), USC (33), Arizona (45) and ASU (53) are all phenomenal research institutions.

If A&M (50) was to go to the SEC, they'd be grouped with Vanderbilt (31) and Florida (39) and Georgia (56-70)

[AtascAstro]

I don't really understand this aspect to the conference alignment, but I'm pretty sure being in a research consortium with Stanford/U Cal system kind of trumps anything with A&M. 

I'll admit that I don't entirely understand it either.  But in the case of Tech, I know that we are racing to get grants from the state.  To the extent that we are part of a collective with UT and TAMU, then there is some perception or vehicle for cooperation.  If TAMU is in a different consortium, then every time one side lines up for money, then the other contends it to get their share.  The net result of that, IMO, is less dollars getting out of the legislature for research.  If all 3 are part of the same consortium then they all benefit (to some degree) from research dollars being funnelled to any of the member universities.

[Andyzipp]

I'll admit that I don't entirely understand it either.  But in the case of Tech, I know that we are racing to get grants from the state.  To the extent that we are part of a collective with UT and TAMU, then there is some perception or vehicle for cooperation.  If TAMU is in a different consortium, then every time one side lines up for money, then the other contends it to get their share.  The net result of that, IMO, is less dollars getting out of the legislature for research.  If all 3 are part of the same consortium then they all benefit (to some degree) from research dollars being funnelled to any of the member universities.

But Tech would now be grouped with the PACInfinity schools in that regard.  Tech would absolutely benefit in that regard.

[AtascAstro]

But Tech would now be grouped with the PACInfinity schools in that regard.  Tech would absolutely benefit in that regard.

Absolutely, and honestly we win either way.  Academically though, the Pac10 opens huge doors for Tech.  But I think the state needs to invest more heavily in university research across the board (including schools like UH).  I think that goal is best served by binding the largest schools in a common interest as opposed to diverging their interests.

At the end of the day, what's best isn't really what will make the decision but what is in the perceived best interest of the decision makers.  I assume that perception is aligned with a united UT & TAMU.  I presume that UT still really wants Pac10 (and is using this SEC bid as leverage as much as anything), but juneberno.  TAMU really wants the SEC, more than UT wants the Pac10?

The nightmare scenario for me right now is a late move that takes UT, TAMU, OU,OSU into the SEC.  Tech left looking for a dancing partner with Bayler, KU, et al.

[subnuclear]

But I think the state needs to invest more heavily in university research across the board (including schools like UH).  I think that goal is best served by binding the largest schools in a common interest as opposed to diverging their interests.

Texas is actually unusually generous in funding research from state funds.  Most states hardly provide any.  Why do you think it needs to be increased?

[HudsonHawk]

But I think the state needs to invest more heavily in university research across the board (including schools like UH).

And what "kind" of school *is* UH?  Other than one that is significantly ahead of Tech as a research university.

[HudsonHawk]

Texas is actually unusually generous in funding research from state funds.  Most states hardly provide any.  Why do you think it needs to be increased?

I think the feeling is they don't need to necessarily give more, just open up the giving to more than just UT and A&M.

[Andyzipp]

I think the feeling is they don't need to necessarily give more, just open up the giving to more than just UT and A&M.

It's something like 50/40/10 to Texas/A&M/Everyone else, yes?

[Jacksonian]

There is a significant (and by significant I mean lots of money) push in the state to advance 6, I think that's right, schools to Tier 1 research status.  Several are in the UT system.

[AtascAstro]

And what "kind" of school *is* UH?  Other than one that is significantly ahead of Tech as a research university.

A school not included in these discussions, didn't mean anything more by that.  I would like to see Tech and UH both come up in the world.  They each have strengths in different areas but this state is big enough that there should be room at the table for both.

Obviously, if I'm picking one it would be Tech, but I honestly think that the state is best served by the improvement of both.

[Andyzipp]

Just in case you needed more to keep track of...

http://www.kctv5.com/sports/23860558/detail.html

[AtascAstro]

There is a significant (and by significant I mean lots of money) push in the state to advance 6, I think that's right, schools to Tier 1 research status.  Several are in the UT system.

Yes, some funding has been set aside and the first one to reach a certain plateau gets it.  Tech and UH seem to be closest, last I heard.  Another reason that Tech to the Pac10 is a huge boost in their pursuit of the funding.

[subnuclear]

There is a significant (and by significant I mean lots of money) push in the state to advance 6, I think that's right, schools to Tier 1 research status.  Several are in the UT system.

I didn't know about this.  Very interesting.

[Jacksonian]

I didn't know about this.  Very interesting.

It's actually 7.  Here's some details.  And it's not a race to be first to get it all.  This went down 1 year ago.

"Funds for the seven emerging research universities: UT-Arlington, UT-Dallas, University of North Texas, University of Houston, Texas Tech, UT-El Paso, UT-San Antonio.

Texas Research Incentive Program ($50 million over two years): Matches private gifts and scholarships that a university secures.

National Research University Fund ($425 million moved from a dormant program): Rewards a university if it crosses a national threshold of excellence. Needs statewide vote on constitutional amendment to reallocate the funds for this purpose.

Funds for the seven, plus UT-Austin and Texas A&M

Research University Development Fund ($126 million over two years): A formula for grants to universities that conduct at least $50 million in research.

Open to any academic institution

Performance Incentive Funding ($80 million over two years): Rewards universities for success in graduating at-risk students in "critical" fields of engineering, math and science."

ETA link: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/legislature/stories/DN-tierone_18met.ART.East.Edition1.5115837.html

[Lurch]

Just in case you needed more to keep track of...

http://www.kctv5.com/sports/23860558/detail.html

What a wild ride

[Craig]

Absolutely, and honestly we win either way.  Academically though, the Pac10 opens huge doors for Tech.  But I think the state needs to invest more heavily in university research across the board (including schools like UH).  I think that goal is best served by binding the largest schools in a common interest as opposed to diverging their interests.

At the end of the day, what's best isn't really what will make the decision but what is in the perceived best interest of the decision makers.  I assume that perception is aligned with a united UT & TAMU.  I presume that UT still really wants Pac10 (and is using this SEC bid as leverage as much as anything), but juneberno.  TAMU really wants the SEC, more than UT wants the Pac10?

The nightmare scenario for me right now is a late move that takes UT, TAMU, OU,OSU into the SEC.  Tech left looking for a dancing partner with Bayler, KU, et al.

If Tech and AtM end up in different conferences, I wonder if Tech will re-orient the statue of Will Rogers so that the horse's ass points somewhere besides College Station.

[JimR]

Just in case you needed more to keep track of...

http://www.kctv5.com/sports/23860558/detail.html

wow! if this is true, what a switcheroo! if UT does this, i'll bet there was some agreement with ND.

[AtascAstro]

If Tech and AtM end up in different conferences, I wonder if Tech will re-orient the statue of Will Rogers so that the horse's ass points somewhere besides College Station.

If UT & TAMU end up in different conferences, will the Aggies change their...everything?

[AtascAstro]

Texas Research Incentive Program ($50 million over two years): Matches private gifts and scholarships that a university secures.

I think this was the piece I was thinking of specifically.  It was open to everyone, but you had to reach a minimum to get the matching and then whenever the 50 million was gone that was it.

Overall, a fantastic set of initiatives for Texas and long overdue.

[Andyzipp]

If UT & TAMU end up in different conferences, will the Aggies change their...everything?

We sing the first verse of the War Hymn instead of the 2nd.

Texas drops "Goodbye to A&M" from Texas Fight.

We all go on about our lives.

[Phil_in_CS]

If UT & TAMU end up in different conferences, will the Aggies change their...everything?

They'd still play football once a year, just a non-conference game. UT and OU did that for decades.

[Andyzipp]

wow! if this is true, what a switcheroo! if UT does this, i'll bet there was some agreement with ND.

Who knows what in the hell is true?  The only thing for sure is that right now, the Pac 10, Big 10 and Big 12 all have eleven teams.

[Duke]

wow! if this is true, what a switcheroo! if UT does this, i'll bet there was some agreement with ND.

Wow.  That would be some Football conference.

[austro]

You know what's missing from this running commentary? Taras' take. Where is he?

[subnuclear]

Performance Incentive Funding ($80 million over two years): Rewards universities for success in graduating at-risk students in "critical" fields of engineering, math and science."

That's quite a bit of money.  I hope they define "graduating" and "engineering, math and science" pretty carefully.

Anyway, if Texas gets organized I imagine it could be a pretty big pull for fed research money.  Not sure if the conference their teams play in matters all that much, though.

[HudsonHawk]

but I honestly think that the state is best served by the improvement of both.

I do too. 

[BudGirl]

It's something like 50/40/10 to Texas/A&M/Everyone else, yes?

yes

[AtascAstro]

The Rivals guys are all saying the KC report is bunk, Chris Brown (Orangebloods) seems to be the trusted authority in their network.

[Andyzipp]

The Rivals guys are all saying the KC report is bunk, Chris Brown (Orangebloods) seems to be the trusted authority in their network.

I don't think he has time to write with all the woman beatin' he participates in.

[Ebby Calvin]

The Rivals guys are all saying the KC report is bunk, Chris Brown (Orangebloods) seems to be the trusted authority in their network.

His tweet:
"There's a Kansas City TV report saying Texas and A&M to the Big Ten. That would be news to those schools."

[HudsonHawk]

I don't think he has time to write with all the woman beatin' he participates in.

"in which he participates".  Never end a sentence in a preposition, Aggie.  We're trying to elevate SnS to Tier 1 website status, and grammar counts.

[JimR]

Who knows what in the hell is true?  The only thing for sure is that right now, the Pac 10, Big 10 and Big 12 all have eleven teams.

my source (System, not AD) says Big Ten is false.

[austro]

"in which he participates".  Never end a sentence in a preposition, Aggie.  We're trying to elevate SnS to Tier 1 website status, and grammar counts.

Fredia's headed to the SEC?

[Andyzipp]

"in which he participates".  Never end a sentence in a preposition, Aggie.  We're trying to elevate SnS to Tier 1 website status, and grammar counts.

With the associations inherent to the membership of this community, I feel that your initiatives are facing at best an uphill battle.

[Ebby Calvin]

With the associations inherent to the membership of this community, I feel that your initiatives are facing at best an uphill battle.

What? This Astro's board?

[HudsonHawk]

With the associations inherent to the membership of this community, I feel that your initiatives are facing at best an uphill battle.

Don't worry, I'm planning to talking to Noe about his long-windedness.

[AtascAstro]

KU's AD gives up, well timed sir.

[Phil_in_CS]

http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/96087424.html

Texas A&M regent Gene Stallings — the former Texas A&M and Alabama football coach — said Thursday that it’s conceivable that Texas and Texas A&M could go their own separate ways and join different conferences, but said any Texas/Pac-10 and Texas A&M/SEC talk is only conjecture until concrete options are laid out before both schools.

Meanwhile, as was reported Thursday, Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds and Texas A&M athletic director Bill Byrne met today to discuss what happens next for the two schools.

[Astroholic]

http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/96087424.html

May be Caberaed but USC just got capped by the NCAA.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/7046212.html
Sorry for a comical link.

[Astroholic]

well here is UH's stadium plans.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/local/100610-uh-considers-%24160-million-stadium_arena-project

[JimR]

May be Caberaed but USC just got capped by the NCAA.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/7046212.html
Sorry for a comical link.

i have a copy of the report, all 67 pages of it.

[Astroholic]

i have a copy of the report, all 67 pages of it.

Dang.  Did you read it?  Can they take the Heisman away?

[Rebel Jew]

May be Caberaed but USC just got capped by the NCAA.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/7046212.html
Sorry for a comical link.

i remember the story that tim floyd was trying to pass off when he recruited oj mayo, that one of mayo's posse just randomly, mysteriously phoned him up one day and said that oj wanted to play at usc.  he didn't have to do any recruiting at all, and basically the first time he met him was the first day of practice.   all they had to do was bring along master p's son or whatever.

[hostros7]

i have a copy of the report, all 67 pages of it.

You knew this was coming the second Carroll ditched for Seattle.  Not to say USC's problems are all on Carroll, but the NCAA needs to find a way to punish these greedy coaches who can win at all costs and then ride out of town in a blaze of money when shit hits the fan, a move Calipari has perfected.  If you shit your bed, you should at the very least not get to upgrade to a pillowtop mattress with silk sheets and a down comforter.

[CarolinaStro]

Can they take the Heisman away?

yes

[CarolinaStro]

You knew this was coming the second Carroll ditched for Seattle.  Not to say USC's problems are all on Carroll, but the NCAA needs to find a way to punish these greedy coaches who can win at all costs and then ride out of town in a blaze of money when shit hits the fan, a move Calipari has perfected.  If you shit your bed, you should at the very least not get to upgrade to a pillowtop mattress with silk sheets and a down comforter.

Both of the guys you mention should be banned from coaching college athletics.  I will enjoy PC fucking up and getting canned.  Of course, then he will be on espn.

[BUWebguy]

i have a copy of the report, all 67 pages of it.

Someone on Twitter noted: For reference, '02 Alabama was 37 pages, '05 Baylor was 54 pages.

[MusicMan]

i have a copy of the report, all 67 pages of it.

SI's Mandel tweeted that NCAA very seriously considered a TV ban as well.

[BizidyDizidy]

SI's Mandel tweeted that NCAA very seriously considered a TV ban as well.

It says that in the report

[austro]

SI's Mandel tweeted that NCAA very seriously considered a TV ban as well.

That would be unfair to their scheduled opponents, so I can see why they held back. But I wonder if they could have demanded that USC's TV proceeds be forfeited or distributed elsewhere.

[MRaup]

It says that in the report

That guy you paid to read it for you did a thorough job.

[Phil_in_CS]

This has a byline of Chip Brown, so most of you likely saw this on Orangebloods already

http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/96117714.html

[Ty in Tampa]

You may want to edit this before a mod does it for you. Full text copy and paste is a no-no here.

[AtascAstro]

Apparently Chris Brown's latest Tweet says that UT,TT,OU,OSU go to the Pac10 with or without TAMU.

Sounds like TAMU is as set on going to the SEC as UT is on not going there.  May be irreconcilable at this point.  Also rumors of TAMU getting the Arkansas treatment from the other schools if this is how it goes down.

[Phil_in_CS]

You may want to edit this before a mod does it for you. Full text copy and paste is a no-no here.

HH beat me to it. I usually just do a couple paragraphs, but KBTX has put this stupid bing popup in that is throwing stuff up everywhere as you mouse over. It irritates the heck out of me and I haven't found how to block it yet.

[geezerdonk]

May be Caberaed but USC just got capped by the NCAA.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/7046212.html
Sorry for a comical link.

An old friend is a Tennessee alum and huge fan. He had to be sedated last night to keep from laughing himself to death. 

[Andyzipp]

Apparently Chris Brown's latest Tweet says that UT,TT,OU,OSU go to the Pac10 with or without TAMU.

Sounds like TAMU is as set on going to the SEC as UT is on not going there.  May be irreconcilable at this point.  Also rumors of TAMU getting the Arkansas treatment from the other schools if this is how it goes down.

A threat from Geoff Ketchum?  How quaint.

Seriously, I don't get the ire coming from Ketchum and Justice (via Twitter) on the issue.  If Texas thinks the Pac10 or the Big10 is what's best for them, and A&M thinks that the SEC is what's best for them, what's the issue?

It's not like (according to those two and others) A&M hasn't been a huge drain and embarrassment to Texas over the years.  You would think they would be happy to be rid of us.

[AtascAstro]

A threat from Geoff Ketchum?  How quaint.

Seriously, I don't get the ire coming from Ketchum and Justice (via Twitter) on the issue.  If Texas thinks the Pac10 or the Big10 is what's best for them, and A&M thinks that the SEC is what's best for them, what's the issue?

It's not like (according to those two and others) A&M hasn't been a huge drain and embarrassment to Texas over the years.  You would think they would be happy to be rid of us.

I agree with you on this.  If that is what TAMU wants, let them have it.  Every institution has to act in its own best interest.  It isn't something to be upset about, its just business.  I still think it is best for the whole if they all go together.  Even though, personally,  it is probably better for Tech w/o TAMU.

[Phil_in_CS]

If they revoke Bush's 2005 Heisman, does that give it to VY? He came in second that year.

http://www.heisman.com/winners/r-bush05.php

[Astroholic]

If they revoke Bush's 2005 Heisman, does that give it to VY? He came in second that year.

http://www.heisman.com/winners/r-bush05.php

I think he should get it, but who knows?  Mario Williams?  kidding.

[AtascAstro]

HaHa...Perry is funny

Gov. Rick Perry, an A&M alumnus, said Thursday night he has not weighed in on A&M's decision.

"I have studiously stayed away from it," Perry said. "It is a decision that the board of regents should make. Frankly, it doesn't need to have a political aspect to it. It needs to be a thoughtful look at all the consequences, and I think that's what we're doing."

DMN:  Sources: Texas, Texas A&M may head in different directions

[BizidyDizidy]

SC really seems to have gotten the message

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/12383/mike-garrett-nothing-but-a-lot-of-envy

Unbelievable.

[Lurch]

SC really seems to have gotten the message

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/12383/mike-garrett-nothing-but-a-lot-of-envy

Unbelievable.

LALALALALALALLALAALALAL...I CANT HEAR YOU.... LALLLALALALALALALALLALALA

[Andyzipp]

If they revoke Bush's 2005 Heisman, does that give it to VY? He came in second that year.

http://www.heisman.com/winners/r-bush05.php

Nope.  If he has to vacate the trophy, it would be unawarded for that year.

[Astroholic]

Nope.  If he has to vacate the trophy, it would be unawarded for that year.

Thanks for clarification. 

[BizidyDizidy]

Nope.  If he has to vacate the trophy, it would be unawarded for that year.

I'm not sure if that's true - thats how it works for wins, but the Heisman is separate from the NCAA and I think the DAC can do whatever it wants.

ETA: See AP, DROY, and Brian Cushing.

[Andyzipp]

I'm not sure if that's true - thats how it works for wins, but the Heisman is separate from the NCAA and I think the DAC can do whatever it wants.

ETA: See AP, DROY, and Brian Cushing.

Third Party, but that is according to what the DT Athletic Club's rules supposedly say.  Granted I haven't read them...

[JimR]

I agree with you on this.  If that is what TAMU wants, let them have it.  Every institution has to act in its own best interest.  It isn't something to be upset about, its just business.  I still think it is best for the whole if they all go together.  Even though, personally,  it is probably better for Tech w/o TAMU.

this is not just Ketchum's opinion.

[Andyzipp]

this is not just Ketchum's opinion.

I know you're not talking to me here, but it's fairly obivious that Ketchum and Brown are getting their information from the AD.

But what's the problem with A&M wanting to explore their options if Texas is the big prize in all this.

Texas has been offered membership in the Big10, Pac10 and SEC.  At this point they want the Pac10 (it appears).

A&M has been offered memebership in the Pac10 and SEC.  At this point they are about 60/40 to the Pac10.  But that's moved from 90/10 on Wednesday. 

The question is why does Texas need to float threats or "put A&M on the clock" if both schools are getting to go where they want?

[jbm]

Don't understand the allure of the SEC for the Aggies, but I've never really understood Aggies anyway.

Good luck to them if they leave. Bring KU along.

[JimR]

I know you're not talking to me here, but it's fairly obivious that Ketchum and Brown are getting their information from the AD.

But what's the problem with A&M wanting to explore their options if Texas is the big prize in all this.

Texas has been offered membership in the Big10, Pac10 and SEC.  At this point they want the Pac10 (it appears).

A&M has been offered memebership in the Pac10 and SEC.  At this point they are about 60/40 to the Pac10.  But that's moved from 90/10 on Wednesday. 

The question is why does Texas need to float threats or "put A&M on the clock" if both schools are getting to go where they want?

it is ALL the other Texas schools, not just Texas. they are aligned on that one point.

[Lurch]

Don't understand the allure of the SEC for the Aggies

red state, blue state?

[hostros7]

red state, blue state?

Ain't no homos in the SEC

SEC membership could eventually be a good thing for ATM...get the guys in Texas who feel the allure of playing in death valley, alabama, etc.  At least it's an angle.

[Andyzipp]

it is ALL the other Texas schools, not just Texas. they are aligned on that one point.

But, Jim that's not answering the question.  I have no doubt that a movement would be afoot to blacklist A&M (although I don't think it's terribly practical for the non-revenue sports, but for argument's sake...)

I'm asking, "why does Texas care?"  Texas is still getting to where they want to go.

This is what I've heard in the past 24 hours from various Horn media and friends:

A&M is (and always has been) an embarassment to Texas (state and school, I guess).
A&M is a drain on Texas' resources.
A&M will be destroyed in the SEC.
A&M was only in the Big 12 because Texas allowed them to be.
A&M is only receiving an invitation to the PAC10 because Texas is required to take care of them.

If all of that is accepted as true, why does Texas care?  It sounds like they'd be relieved to be rid of A&M.

[BizidyDizidy]

But, Jim that's not answering the question.  I have no doubt that a movement would be afoot to blacklist A&M (although I don't think it's terribly practical for the non-revenue sports, but for argument's sake...)

I'm asking, "why does Texas care?"  Texas is still getting to where they want to go.

This is what I've heard in the past 24 hours from various Horn media and friends:

A&M is (and always has been) an embarassment to Texas (state and school, I guess).
A&M is a drain on Texas' resources.
A&M will be destroyed in the SEC.
A&M was only in the Big 12 because Texas allowed them to be.
A&M is only receiving an invitation to the PAC10 because Texas is required to take care of them.

If all of that is accepted as true, why does Texas care?  It sounds like they'd be relieved to be rid of A&M.

I thought it was because they didn't want the SEC in Texas (idea being that it opens up SEC recruiting in general more).

[Bench]

But, Jim that's not answering the question.  I have no doubt that a movement would be afoot to blacklist A&M (although I don't think it's terribly practical for the non-revenue sports, but for argument's sake...)

I'm asking, "why does Texas care?"  Texas is still getting to where they want to go.

This is what I've heard in the past 24 hours from various Horn media and friends:

A&M is (and always has been) an embarassment to Texas (state and school, I guess).
A&M is a drain on Texas' resources.
A&M will be destroyed in the SEC.
A&M was only in the Big 12 because Texas allowed them to be.
A&M is only receiving an invitation to the PAC10 because Texas is required to take care of them.

If all of that is accepted as true, why does Texas care?  It sounds like they'd be relieved to be rid of A&M.

I don't get what the big deal about different confences is either.  Florida and FSU/Miami seem to be doing fine.

[Andyzipp]

Don't understand the allure of the SEC for the Aggies, but I've never really understood Aggies anyway.

Good luck to them if they leave. Bring KU along.

a.) Money
b.) Prestige
c.) Money
d.) Divorcing ourselves from the idea that we're Texas' illegitimate child.

[Andyzipp]

I thought it was because they didn't want the SEC in Texas (idea being that it opens up SEC recruiting in general more).

That can't be it.  Texas is the greatest football recruiting school in the country.  According to what Ive read, nothing is ever going to change that.

[Astroholic]

d.) Divorcing ourselves from the idea that we're Texas' illegitimate child.


Now you kinda know how UH fans feel.

[JimR]

That can't be it.  Texas is the greatest football recruiting school in the country.  According to what Ive read, nothing is ever going to change that.

that definitely is part of it.

[Bench]

I can't tell if y'all are whining because people don't care enough or because they care too much.

[JimR]

a.) Money
b.) Prestige
c.) Money
d.) Divorcing ourselves from the idea that we're Texas' illegitimate child.

best guess is that this is just Byrnes' posturing, and the Ags will come along.

[hostros7]

d.) Divorcing ourselves from the idea that we're Texas' illegitimate child.


Now you kinda know how UH fans feel.

Don't delude yourself.  UH is just the black kid down the block from Texas.

[JimR]

d.) Divorcing ourselves from the idea that we're Texas' illegitimate child.


Now you kinda know how UH fans feel.

UH is not even a member of the family.

[Astroholic]

Don't delude yourself.  UH is just the black kid down the block from Texas.

Well its good we are located in the Ward then.

[Bench]

If A&M goes to the SEC, will UT have the stones to do the right thing and bring TCU with them to the PAC 10?  Or will the Horns be too scared?

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I don't get what the big deal about different confences is either.  Florida and FSU/Miami seem to be doing fine.

Florida State is in the ACC...

[Astroholic]

If A&M goes to the SEC, will UT have the stones to do the right thing and bring TCU with them to the PAC 10?  Or will the Horns be too scared?

TCU is a religious private school.  See Baylor vs. Cal Berkeley.

[Lurch]

If A&M goes to the SEC, will UT have the stones to do the right thing and bring TCU with them to the PAC 10?  Or will the Horns be too scared?

Hell no!  Word might get out that they're on the rise!

[Astroholic]

UH is not even a member of the family.

That Hurts.  We was a part of the family, then you kicked us to the curb.

[Lurch]

This is what I've heard in the past 24 hours from various Horn media and friends:

A&M is (and always has been) an embarassment to Texas (state and school, I guess).
A&M is a drain on Texas' resources.
A&M will be destroyed in the SEC.
A&M was only in the Big 12 because Texas allowed them to be.
A&M is only receiving an invitation to the PAC10 because Texas is required to take care of them.

If all of that is accepted as true, why does Texas care?  It sounds like they'd be relieved to be rid of A&M.

Can we just stop there?  Do Aggies really believe that Texas really believes those things?

[BudGirl]

UH is not even a member of the family.

You've told UH people that enough.  Can they at least think they can take the trash out at the end of the day?

[BizidyDizidy]

TCU is a religious private school.  See Baylor vs. Cal Berkeley.

As far as I have been able to determine so far, this is a made up issue.

[MusicMan]

Can we just stop there?  Do Aggies really believe that Texas really believes those things?

This Longhorn thinks that A&M would get beaten like a rented mule in SEC football.  They'd do quite well in other sports.

[Astroholic]

As far as I have been able to determine so far, this is a made up issue.

As far as I have been able to determine
1. Baylor is not invited
2. Cal Berkeley is more that capable of this sort of thing

[MusicMan]

Noe, who dyed Littlefield Fountain green?

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Can we just stop there?  Do Aggies really believe that Texas really believes those things?

As an Aggie that lives just outside Austin, I can confirm that.  As near as I can tell, most longhorns I know believe the sun rises and sets on UT.  Don't get me wrong, they've had an incredibly successful stretch, athletics wise.  If the powers that be want to leverage that for more revenue and exposure, more power to them.  

[MusicMan]

According to ESPN's latest report, A&M is seeking a guarantee from Texas that their annual game would continue if they go separate ways.

[BizidyDizidy]

As far as I have been able to determine
1. Baylor is not invited
2. Cal Berkeley is more that capable of this sort of thing

I can think of about 100 compelling reasons not want Baylor that don't have to do with religion (mediocre sports, no tv advantages, having to roadtrip to Waco, etc.).

[sporadic]

This Longhorn thinks that A&M would get beaten like a rented mule in SEC football.  They'd do quite well in other sports.

"fucked like a tied goat" seems more appropriate.  Maybe not appropriate, i just like using that term whenever possible.

[Astroholic]

I can think of about 100 compelling reasons not want Baylor that don't have to do with religion (mediocre sports, no tv advantages, having to roadtrip to Waco, etc.).

Yeah, but it more fun to call them out for being baptist.

[Bench]

Florida State is in the ACC...

And Florida is in the SEC.

[Lurch]

The question is why does Texas need to float threats or "put A&M on the clock" if both schools are getting to go where they want?

Two possible reasons based off an ESPN report just aired:
1) A&M reportedly wants a guarantee that the UT/A&M game will continue if the teams go their separate ways
2) A need to get something done before the Texas legislature inserts themselves

[AtascAstro]

According to ESPN's latest report, A&M is seeking a guarantee from Texas that their annual game would continue if they go separate ways.

Haha...Hey Texas, can you make it easier for me to do that thing that you very clearly don't want me to do?  Gee Thanks!

[Lurch]

As an Aggie that lives just outside Austin, I can confirm that.  As near as I can tell, most longhorns I know believe the sun rises and sets on UT.  Don't get me wrong, they've had an incredibly successful stretch, athletics wise.  If the powers that be want to leverage that for more revenue and exposure, more power to them.  

Fans are not Texas.  The decision is not being made by those posting on message boards.

[MusicMan]

Haha...Hey Texas, can you make it easier for me to do that thing that you very clearly don't want me to do?  Gee Thanks!

Especially given that if they go their separate ways, Texas is just as likely to approach Notre Dame as the new OOC rivalry game.

[Astroholic]

Fans are not Texas. 

Neither are politicians.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

And Florida is in the SEC.

Right, I'm aware of that.  I just wasn't making the connection about in-state rivalries across conferences, sorry.

[Lurch]

Neither are politicians.

But they have a wallet full of pressure to apply to the decision making process.  Andy's question was if Texas believes X, then why does Texas care what A&M does, and my point is that X did not likely represent opinions that Texas really has.

[sporadic]

Yeah, but it more fun to call them out for being baptist.

Joke amendment forthcoming...

UT and A&M alums don't recognize Baylor as a legit conference-whatever threat
Cal alums don't recognize Baylor as an appropriate PAC-Whatever partner
Baylor alums don't reconize each other in liquor stores

[AtascAstro]

To me, UT's reason for wanting TAMU in the new conference is pretty obvious.  Despite their differences, more often than not UT and TAMU's interest are going to be aligned when it comes to matters of dispute within the conference.  UT wants the assurance of another large revenue contributing partner in such matters.

They also have no desire to see any more LSU, Alabama, or Arkansas t-shirts sold inside the state of Texas.  Because most of the incermental increase in those sales will come from people who probably would have otherwise bought an orange t-shirt.  Much less the clear division of TV sets that would invite.  It would almost certainly impair the perceived total value of the Texas TV market in the new contract.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

It would almost certainly impair the perceived total value of the Texas TV market in the new contract.

Dingdingdingdingdingding....  We got a winner. 

[Astroholic]

Joke amendment forthcoming...

UT and A&M alums don't recognize Baylor as a legit conference-whatever threat
Cal alums don't recognize Baylor as an appropriate PAC-Whatever partner
Baylor alums don't reconize each other in liquor stores

Good one.

Also how can they go to "The Dance" in BB?

[MusicMan]

It would almost certainly impair the perceived total value of the Texas TV market in the new contract.

You waited until the end to get it right.

[geezerdonk]

"fucked like a tied goat" seems more appropriate.  Maybe not appropriate, i just like using that term whenever possible.

Why wouldn't it be appropriate in a post concerning A&M?

[Astroholic]

Why wouldn't it be appropriate in a post concerning A&M?

I like the condensed form better.  Goat Fucker!

[Astroholic]

Funny Podcast from Sean and John show yesterday.
http://www.1560thegame.com/media/?page_id=196

2.SJ - It suck to be Baylor

[sporadic]

Why wouldn't it be appropriate in a post concerning A&M?

since my dad went to school there, I try to be as respectful as possible...although I can appreciate the comedic reference!

[Astroholic]

since my dad went to school there

Me too,
+ Brother, Sister, Uncle, grandfather, etc.

That was being respectful compared to the shit I hear.

[sporadic]

Me too,
+ Brother, Sister, Uncle, grandfather, etc.

That was being respectful compared to the shit I hear.

we need to start a support group.  Brainwashing starts early in A&M households...it took me 21 years to break out of that shit.  Still can't say anything remotely negative about A&M (please note that being non-biased is negative to an aggie..."dad, that was a hold" is something that goes over like a turn in a punch bowl).  What's worse is my brother married a CRAZY aggie and thinks he has to match her craziness, even though he graduated from SHSU. 

[Astroholic]

we need to start a support group.  Brainwashing starts early in A&M households...it took me 21 years to break out of that shit.  Still can't say anything remotely negative about A&M (please note that being non-biased is negative to an aggie..."dad, that was a hold" is something that goes over like a turn in a punch bowl).  What's worse is my brother married a CRAZY aggie and thinks he has to match her craziness, even though he graduated from SHSU. 

Pop passed.  But brother is bat shit crazy eaten up with it.  My mother/brother/sister/uncle are starting in on my kids.  They are lucky they have me on their side.

[Phil_in_CS]

This Longhorn thinks that A&M would get beaten like a rented mule in SEC football.  They'd do quite well in other sports.

This Aggie agrees with you. But conference games with Alabama, LSU, Auburn etc would be more fun than Arizona and Arizona State.

Looking at the 6 or 8 teams that might make up the SEC-West, A&M would be years away from doing better than last or next to last in football. Of course, we're stinking it up in the Big 12 South, so this is just a change in the teams that beat us, and a getting a whole lot more money.

[JimR]

If A&M goes to the SEC, will UT have the stones to do the right thing and bring TCU with them to the PAC 10?  Or will the Horns be too scared?

rabble rouser

[HudsonHawk]

UH is not even a member of the family.

We are, you just ignore us at all the family reunions.

[Bench]

This Aggie agrees with you. But conference games with Alabama, LSU, Auburn etc would be more fun than Arizona and Arizona State.

What about the conference games with Mississippi State and Vanderbilt versus USC and Oregon?

[Phil_in_CS]

What about the conference games with Mississippi State and Vanderbilt versus USC and Oregon?

If the Pac 16 does an east/west with 8 teams each, I don't think we'd see USC and Oregon for football except in the unlikely event of a conference championship game.

Vandy is in the eastern division of the SEC already.

[Andyzipp]

that definitely is part of it.

That will be quite the relief to the other schools that they'll all of a sudden be able to recruit in Texas since they've been avoiding for so many years.

[Andyzipp]

best guess is that this is just Byrnes' posturing, and the Ags will come along.

Byrne has made his peace either way.

Slocum, Stallings, and the President are the ones pushing. With help from the SEC.

I agree, that the odds are still in the favor of A&M to the PAC16, but it's getting closer.

[Andyzipp]

Can we just stop there?  Do Aggies really believe that Texas really believes those things?

If Ketchum has a direct link to the Texas AD, and Ketchum says those types of things, then yes, I do think that Texas' AD does think of A&M that way.

[Andyzipp]

Dingdingdingdingdingding....  We got a winner. 

How?  No one watches A&M football.  6 times last year, I mean literally.

[Ron Brand]

we need to start a support group.  Brainwashing starts early in A&M households...it took me 21 years to break out of that shit.  Still can't say anything remotely negative about A&M (please note that being non-biased is negative to an aggie..."dad, that was a hold" is something that goes over like a turn in a punch bowl).  What's worse is my brother married a CRAZY aggie and thinks he has to match her craziness, even though he graduated from SHSU. 

I'm lucky, I guess. Mrs. Brand is an Aggie but she got her Master's at the LBJ School and is tolerant and has a realistic worldview. I've got a cousin my age who, when we were juniors in high school, started his slobbering litany about how great the Corps was. All we heard for months on end, whenever he opened his mouth, was something about the Corps and how he was going to love it, all the traditions, etc. Ad nauseum and way past nauseum.

Somewhere along about the first month of his freshman year he shut up about it and never said another word about the Corps. I don't know what happened, but it must have been spectacular. It was never brought up again.

[Lurch]

Hey Look at Me!  Over Here!

[AtascAstro]

How?  No one watches A&M football.  6 times last year, I mean literally.

Good point, so why then is the SEC interested?  Maybe they just love a good halftime show, yes, I'm sure that is it.

[Bench]

Hey Look at Me!  Over Here!

Good.  Now we won't have to deal with both Boise St. and TCU whining about being undefeated and ignored.

[JimR]

Byrne has made his peace either way.

Slocum, Stallings, and the President are the ones pushing. With help from the SEC.

I agree, that the odds are still in the favor of A&M to the PAC16, but it's getting closer.

the President is not pushing any more, or so i hear.

[Andyzipp]

This Longhorn thinks that A&M would get beaten like a rented mule in SEC football.  They'd do quite well in other sports.

But we suck in football anyway.  We could suck with an unequal portion of a "proposed" amount that the PAC 16 might be able to get for it's schools (when the only real player for the network is going to be FSN).  Or we could suck making substantially more money against schools that will travel to College Station, put cash in the coffers.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

How?  No one watches A&M football.  6 times last year, I mean literally.

If you are looking at this as existing or immediate impact, then no.  But if A&M can get substantial money from TV deals and can grow in to the SEC, they will pull Ags out of the  PAC-East audience.  It will take a few years, but it will happen.  I'm also thinking LSU games aired in Houston.  As the Aggies will stretch the SEC coverage to include that territory.  Between A&M and LSU fans and former students/alumni, Houston will be SEC territory more than PAC 10 territory.  

[Jacksonian]

If you are looking at this as existing or immediate impact, then no.  But if A&M can get substantial money from TV deals and can grow in to the SEC, they will pull Ags out of the  PAC-East audience.  It will take a few years, but it will happen.  I'm also thinking LSU games aired in Houston.  As the Aggies will stretch the SEC coverage to include that territory.  Between A&M and LSU fans and former students/alumni, Houston will be SEC territory more than PAC 10 territory.  

LSU games are already aired in Houston and the rest of the country.  CBS carries the SEC nationally and they run LSU, Alabama, and Florida games nearly every week.

[Andyzipp]

If you are looking at this as existing or immediate impact, then no.  But if A&M can get substantial money from TV deals and can grow in to the SEC, they will pull Ags out of the  PAC-East audience.  It will take a few years, but it will happen.  I'm also thinking LSU games aired in Houston.  As the Aggies will stretch the SEC coverage to include that territory.  Between A&M and LSU fans and former students/alumni, Houston will be SEC territory more than PAC 10 territory. 

There might have been some hyperbole in there.  Just a little.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

LSU games are already aired in Houston and the rest of the country.  CBS carries the SEC nationally and they run LSU, Alabama, and Florida games nearly every week.

All the more reason for A&M to join then. 

[S.P. Rodriguez]

There might have been some hyperbole in there.  Just a little.

I suppose.  But the only immediate benefit I see is TV money.  Academics aside, it's a better conference.

eta: and I'm not so sure the "weaker academics" statement is accurate, just willing to accept it for the point of this discussion. 

[AtascAstro]

UT and the SEC's monetary motivations are the same.  I really don't see how you can claim one see's value and the other should not.  Either TAMU affects TV dollars or they don't, but they don't improve it for one while having no impact on the other.

[Bench]

It's a set-up.  A&M going to the SEC is the key to UT going to the Big 10.  If A&M splits, UT can blame them for breaking up the Texas block, dump Tech, and go to the Big 10 where there's the most money both from TV and academics. 

/blatently repeating something I heard on talk radio.

[Andyzipp]

I suppose.  But the only immediate benefit I see is TV money.  Academics aside, it's a better conference.

eta: and I'm not so sure the "weaker academics" statement is accurate, just willing to accept it for the point of this discussion. 

Weaker than the proposed PAC16 and Current BIG10, certainly.

A little better than the current BIG 12.

[Bench]

If the Pac 16 does an east/west with 8 teams each, I don't think we'd see USC and Oregon for football except in the unlikely event of a conference championship game.

Vandy is in the eastern division of the SEC already.

So if A&M goes to the SEC, who from the ACC does the SEC add?  FSU?  GT? UM?

[AtascAstro]

So if A&M goes to the SEC, who from the ACC does the SEC add?  FSU?  GT? UM?

VT was the rumor.  Which would be a nice get, very strong in the DC market.

[Andyzipp]

So if A&M goes to the SEC, who from the ACC does the SEC add?  FSU?  GT? UM?

First rumor was Virginia Tech.  Also heard FSU and Miami.

[BizidyDizidy]

Supposedly done deal for UT, TT, OU, OSU now.

[JimR]

from OB: Big 12 South schools (Texas, Texas Tech, OU and Ok St) have confirmed to Orangebloods that with Nebraska moving to the Big 10 they will go to the Pac-10.

[Ron Brand]

OB tweets that Nebraska's regents unanimously approved a move to the Big 10.

[Ron Brand]

UT to announce its move to the PAC 10 Tuesday after a regents meeting.

[Ron Brand]

Ho ho. Nebraska intends to begin play in the Big 10 in 2011, not 2012 as previously expected.

[Lurch]

Ho ho. Nebraska intends to begin play in the Big 10 in 2011, not 2012 as previously expected.

We'll give em one final fuck you in Oct at their house

[Bench]

Ho ho. Nebraska intends to begin play in the Big 10 in 2011, not 2012 as previously expected.

I have a feeling the same will be true for everyone else.  This will be the last Big 12 season.

[JimR]

ok, Ags. the stage is set for you. will you assert your independence or come along with the rest of us?

[MusicMan]

We'll give em one final fuck you in Oct at their house

final?  We can tell them fuck you on a regular basis in Pasadena. 

[Russe]

This is basically Jim Delaney's dream scenario. If he gets Nebraska AND UT, Notre Dame pretty much has to join the Big Integer, and that's who Delaney really wants.

[Lurch]

This is basically Jim Delaney's dream scenario. If he gets Nebraska AND UT, Notre Dame pretty much has to join the Big Integer, and that's who Delaney really wants.

UT?

[AtascAstro]

final?  We can tell them fuck you on a regular basis in Pasadena. 

UT I can see in Pasedena...NU not so much.

[Russe]

UT?

Whoops...I was trying to quote this from Bench:

"It's a set-up.  A&M going to the SEC is the key to UT going to the Big 10.  If A&M splits, UT can blame them for breaking up the Texas block, dump Tech, and go to the Big 10 where there's the most money both from TV and academics.

/blatently repeating something I heard on talk radio."

[S.P. Rodriguez]

ok, Ags. the stage is set for you. will you assert your independence or come along with the rest of us?

When the Big XII split started, there was no way I could imagine UT and A&M not staying together.  Some of you longhorns can say what you want, but A&M and UT are like family.

But as I look at the SEC schools, their academics and athletics as well as the reputation, cultural wise, I can see A&M feeling right at home in the SEC.  I can't say the same for the Ags in the PAC 10.  But in all fairness, it's nearly 13 yrs since I've been on campus with any regularity.  It's quite possible the attitudes and culture have changed.  It was changing when I left. 

Slocum's role in this is curious to me.  I'd love to hear his reasons, if the rumors are true that he's a proponent of the SEC, for splitting with UT. 

[Duke]

I don't think Texas, UT players or most UT fans hate TAMU.  Oklahoma, absofuckinglutely!  But I've always thought of  A&M like a little brother.  Sometimes you take your lumps (footbpall during the Slocum years) but usually you get the better of scuffles.  It's hard to immagine not playing A&M on Thanksgiving but I doubt it's likely that Texas would schedule a OOC game that late in the season every year.

[Ty in Tampa]

It's hard to immagine not playing A&M on Thanksgiving but I doubt it's likely that Texas would schedule a OOC game that late in the season every year.

Not sure of the reasoning behind that. There are many OOC 'rivalry' games that weekend including FLA/FSU. It's a part of college football.

[Lurch]

Not sure of the reasoning behind that. There are many OOC 'rivalry' games that weekend including FLA/FSU. It's a part of college football.

Yep.  Guaranteed in-state travel that week can only be a good thing for recruiting parents players

[roadrunner]

I hope and have to think the A&M rivalry doesn't go away, especially with the recent ESPN Thanksgiving night deal.

And for the record, I think the SEC will be good for A&M in the long run.  They can finally have a conversation without their inferiority to Texas popping up.

[MRaup]

I hope and have to think the A&M rivalry doesn't go away, especially with the recent ESPN Thanksgiving night deal.

And for the record, I think the SEC will be good for A&M in the long run.  They can finally have a conversation without their inferiority to Texas popping up.

Instead they can talk about their inferiority to the 7+ teams that are better than them in the SEC?

[roadrunner]

Instead they can talk about their inferiority to the 7+ teams that are better than them in the SEC?

At least it's a different conversation?

I think A&M needs this to inject some life into that football program.  I'm sure they'll get beat around for a few years, but recruiting kids to play for a Texas university in the SEC is an angle that could work.  Recruiting kids to play on the Texas JV squad is an angle that obviously isn't working.

[Duke]

Not sure of the reasoning behind that. There are many OOC 'rivalry' games that weekend including FLA/FSU. It's a part of college football.

Which ones play the last game of the season?  Clemson and South Carolina are the only one that comes to mind. 

I know that Mack Brown doesn't want to schedule tough OOC games in November

[Bench]

I know that Mack Brown doesn't want to schedule tough OOC games in November

So... playing A&M shouldn't be much of a problem, eh?

[Ty in Tampa]

So... playing A&M shouldn't be much of a problem, eh?

Thanks. I don't have to type this now.

[Astroholic]

Ketch said on a thread on OB that the 4 Big 12 schools going to the Pac 10 would be extremely pissed at ATM  if they go to the SEC and would most likely stop playing them in all sports as a result.  I don't know if that's true, but OB has been on top of this story from the beginning.  Said those 4 schools are not ok with opening up Texas recruiting to the SEC.  He said it was not just a UT thing, all of the schools feel the same about it.

Those four schools are not from Texas.  Who cares what OU, OSU and for that matter TT thinks.

[Ron Brand]

Latest word is that Aggies have the votes on their board to go to the SECOND and are trying to convince OU to go there with them.

[MusicMan]

Latest word is that Aggies have the votes on their board to go to the SECOND and are trying to convince OU to go there with them.

tell Stallings good luck with that. 

[Bench]

Latest word is that Aggies have the votes on their board to go to the SECOND and are trying to convince OU to go there with them.

Considering OU met with the Pac-10 commish today and scheduled a Regents meeting for Wednesday, I imagine the "trying" you refer to isn't be reciprocated.

[Ron Brand]

Dunno. LOTS of smoke in this. OU and OSU are supposed to be joined at the hip by their legislature and only OU is being worked.

[Phil_in_CS]

http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/96223979.html

... Aggie Gameday contributor and Texags.com's Billy Liucci says SEC commissioner Mike Slive is in College Station today, and numerous reports say Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott is making the rounds through Texas and Oklahoma.

Only interesting gossip there is

Current MWC affiliate TCU does not want Baylor to join the Mountain West if the Bears are left out. Texas Christian officials are reportedly still upset at how Baylor got into the Big 12 when the Southwest Conference broke and the Horned Frogs were left out.

[Alkie]

Current MWC affiliate TCU does not want Baylor to join the Mountain West if the Bears are left out. Texas Christian officials are reportedly still upset at how Baylor got into the Big 12 when the Southwest Conference broke and the Horned Frogs were left out.

I think it's fantastic that Baylor's ridiculous political bullshit that put them in the Big12 in the first place is going to be the reason they can't even get into a second tier conference now.   

Enjoy CUSA, Bears.

[OregonStrosFan]

I think it's fantastic that Baylor's ridiculous political bullshit that put them in the Big12 in the first place is going to be the reason they can't even get into a second tier conference now.   

Enjoy CUSA, Bears.

Uh, Sic 'Em?

[JimR]

This morning's paper reported that aTm does not have an SEC offer. They'll come along to the PAC 10 next week, imo.

[Ron Brand]

This morning's paper reported that aTm does not have an SEC offer. They'll come along to the PAC 10 next week, imo.

I hope so but you can't underestimate the Aggie need to get in their own way. If they do go to the SEC, I hope the rest of the teams going to the Pac10 invoke the blackout rule on them.

[Andyzipp]

This morning's paper reported that aTm does not have an SEC offer. They'll come along to the PAC 10 next week, imo.

that would be incorrect. Slive was in College Station yesterday. 

[Andyzipp]

I hope so but you can't underestimate the Aggie need to get in their own way. If they do go to the SEC, I hope the rest of the teams going to the Pac10 invoke the blackout rule on them.

and this is exactly the problem. If Texas gets its way, all is right in the world.  If A&M explores they're options, they're being petulant. It's a heck of a double standard.

[Bench]

If they do go to the SEC, I hope the rest of the teams going to the Pac10 invoke the blackout rule on them.

Why?  I don't understand the UT animosity towards A&M maybe heading east.  Do you think that the other schools are being betrayed somehow?

[HudsonHawk]

I hope so but you can't underestimate the Aggie need to get in their own way. If they do go to the SEC, I hope the rest of the teams going to the Pac10 invoke the blackout rule on them.

Why?

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Why?

This is exactly what I've been trying to figure out the past few days.  Most articles I've read are portraying this as A&M being petulant, petty, stupid, or any combination of the three.  It also includes the implied threat of the "Arkansas Treatment". 

None of it makes sense to me.  But then I'm an Aggie.

[HudsonHawk]

None of it makes sense to me.  But then I'm an Aggie.

I'm not an Aggie and it doesn't make sense.  Well, not in any way other than the simple unadulterated arrogance of UT fans.

[Ron Brand]

Why?

Because I'm simply an unadulterated arrogant UT fan. It has to be our way all the time for us to not be upset. Why is it so hard for people to just accept that?

[HudsonHawk]

Because I'm simply an unadulterated arrogant UT fan. It has to be our way all the time for us to not be upset. Why is it so hard for people to just accept that?

The same reason it's hard for them to "accept" their 2-year old rolling around on the floor at Walmart screaming and yelling about not getting they toy they wanted.

[Ron Brand]

The same reason it's hard for them to "accept" their 2-year old rolling around on the floor at Walmart screaming and yelling about not getting they toy they wanted.

Well...yeah.

C'mon guys. I know you don't know me THAT well, but I'm surrounded by Aggie grads and undergrads in my family. Do you really think that I'd support something as short-sighted as the blackout idea that some of my goofier UT alums are kicking around? I get that when you make a plan and it gets changed by somebody else that the instinct for a lot of people is to get upset, but I think A&M should do whatever they believe is in their best interest as a school. I don't know what that is but I'm willing to trust that the regents and everybody else involved in making that decision is a lot closer to knowing that than I am.  Texas is sure as hell working to do what they think is in their best interest, regardless of how A&M views that direction.

College football is largely about tradition and it would be counter-productive to erase a rivalry that is over a century old because of someone getting into a snit over something like TV money.

For the record - I was trying to be sarcastic and didn't pull it off. I think that if they decide to break up the Big 12, then Texas and A&M should do whatever they think is best for them and life will go on. The sun will come up tomorrow.

[Waldo]

Apparently Dan Beebe has been busy

Not a huge fan of the idea and still prefer the Big 10+2, but the money looks good if it's not just Beebe blowing smoke.

[HudsonHawk]

I get that when you make a plan and it gets changed by somebody else that the instinct for a lot of people is to get upset

Who has changed UT's plan?  They're doing exactly what they want.  They're bitching that A&M is not doing what they (UT) wants. 

[Ron Brand]

Who has changed UT's plan?  They're doing exactly what they want.  They're bitching that A&M is not doing what they (UT) wants. 

I think UT's plan included A&M going to the PAC10, which is, yes, everybody doing what UT wants. A deviation from that is not what was part of UT's plan.

UT has maintained from the start that keeping the Big 12 together was their preferred option.

[austro]

UT has maintained from the start that keeping the Big 12 together was their preferred option.

That's their public position, and pretty much has to be until everything falls apart. But I'm not at all sure that's their private position.

[HudsonHawk]

I think UT's plan included A&M going to the PAC10, which is, yes, everybody doing what UT wants. A deviation from that is not what was part of UT's plan.

Perhaps UT shouldn't assume that other schools will just blindly do what they ask, that not every school puts the interests of UT above their own.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I think UT's plan included A&M going to the PAC10, which is, yes, everybody doing what UT wants. A deviation from that is not what was part of UT's plan.

UT has maintained from the start that keeping the Big 12 together was their preferred option.

The question is why they wanted A&M to tag along.  Some might say tradition.  Some might claim to share teh wealth.  I think it's to use it as leverage in the Texas TV market.  

It's just my two cents, but I think UT clearly has the most to gain by joining the PAC 10.  It's a good fit every way you look at it.  At the same time, I think the Aggies going to the SEC is the best fit for Texas A&M.  It would be a shame to lose the connection between the two schools.  But if that's how UT, TT, OU, and OSU want it, so be it.  A&M needs to go in the direction that provides the best opportunity for A&M.  

[Ron Brand]

Perhaps UT shouldn't assume that other schools will just blindly do what they ask, that not every school puts the interests of UT above their own.

Gee, you think?

I'm not that close to it so I really don't have any insight, but I can see where they might view it as their responsibility to lead and sometimes that involves dragging others along where they might not be inclined to go. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just something else that may drive UT.

I can definitely see the viewpoint that they're arrogant and dominating too.

[AtascAstro]

The contentiousness is there because all parties were predisposed to it.  Neither side required the present circumstances to begin name calling, this is simply a new forum/platform on which to project long held opinions.  The Aggies are calling the Longhorns arrogant and the Longhorns are calling the Aggies stupid and petulant.  I'm pretty sure your grandfathers had that same arguement.

The blackout talk is partly ire but may also be partly financial.  If TAMU leaves, they take a piece of the TV market with them.  It is in the other school's best interest to diminish that piece now and in the future.  To that extent, they may feel that ostrasizing the Aggies is the best way to strenthen the Pac contingents marketability in Texas, both for recruits and TV sets.  Resentment of TAMU for breaking the single marketing interest of the formerly allied schools is not wholly unwarranted.

[Bench]

 It would be a shame to lose the connection between the two schools.  But if that's how UT, TT, OU, and OSU want it, so be it.  A&M needs to go in the direction that provides the best opportunity for A&M.  

I just don't understand how the connection or rivalry would be lost merely by playing in different conferences.  Florida and FSU manage to have a perfectly healthy rivalry while existing in different conferences.  There's no way, despite the blackout calls by fans, that the annual UT-A&M game would be no more.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I just don't understand how the connection or rivalry would be lost merely by playing in different conferences.  Florida and FSU manage to have a perfectly healthy rivalry while existing in different conferences.  There's no way, despite the blackout calls by fans, that the annual UT-A&M game would be no more.

Personally, I'd hope they continue.  I think it would be even better representing two big conferences.  

Apparently so does the A&M (eta: correction, this was not the regent's email) fan base... sorry if this was posted already:

http://blog.newsok.com/berrytramel/2010/06/12/conference-realignment-am-fans-campaign-for-sec/

[Andyzipp]

The contentiousness is there because all parties were predisposed to it.  Neither side required the present circumstances to begin name calling, this is simply a new forum/platform on which to project long held opinions.  The Aggies are calling the Longhorns arrogant and the Longhorns are calling the Aggies stupid and petulant.  I'm pretty sure your grandfathers had that same arguement.

The blackout talk is partly ire but may also be partly financial.  If TAMU leaves, they take a piece of the TV market with them.  It is in the other school's best interest to diminish that piece now and in the future.  To that extent, they may feel that ostrasizing the Aggies is the best way to strenthen the Pac contingents marketability in Texas, both for recruits and TV sets.  Resentment of TAMU for breaking the single marketing interest of the formerly allied schools is not wholly unwarranted.

But have you seen where Texas (through Ketchum and Brown) have said that NO Texas schools will play A&M?  Why should SMU, TCU, UH, Rice, North Texas and the rest give two shits about what Texas thinks they should do.

And frankly it's a pretty empty threat.

A&M's schedule in any given year in the SEC would include games against Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss and Mississippi State in addition to two (or three) of Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, South Carolina and Kentucky and (other SEC member to be named).

So A&M has to fill 3-4 games.  And they'll do that mostly with directional Louisiana and other Texas schools, and one "better" school from out of the region.

There is no room for Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma, OSU because they don't fit the profile.  Texas is the exception, and A&M would make room to play them.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

But have you seen where Texas (through Ketchum and Brown) have said that NO Texas schools will play A&M?  Why should SMU, TCU, UH, Rice, North Texas and the rest give two shits about what Texas thinks they should do.

And frankly it's a pretty empty threat.

A&M's schedule in any given year in the SEC would include games against Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss and Mississippi State in addition to two (or three) of Florida, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, South Carolina and Kentucky and (other SEC member to be named).

So A&M has to fill 3-4 games.  And they'll do that mostly with directional Louisiana and other Texas schools, and one "better" school from out of the region.

There is no room for Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma, OSU because they don't fit the profile.  Texas is the exception, and A&M would make room to play them.

Taking it outside football, think about playing the same schools in Basketball and Baseball.  It's very interesting, to me at least. 

[HudsonHawk]

I just don't understand how the connection or rivalry would be lost merely by playing in different conferences.  Florida and FSU manage to have a perfectly healthy rivalry while existing in different conferences.  There's no way, despite the blackout calls by fans, that the annual UT-A&M game would be no more.

Unless UT simply isn't interested in continuing it because it's not the rivalry for them that it is for A&M.  Florida considers FSU a rivalry, sort of, but it's not *the* rivalry.  Florida wouldn't lose any sleep should they stop playing FSU. 

[Bench]

Unless UT simply isn't interested in continuing it because it's not the rivalry for them that it is for A&M.  Florida considers FSU a rivalry, sort of, but it's not *the* rivalry.  Florida wouldn't lose any sleep should they stop playing FSU. 

Who is Florida's big rival?  Georgia?

[HudsonHawk]

Who is Florida's big rival?  Georgia?

Georgia is to Florida what OU and A&M combined is to UT.  Georgia is THE game for Florida.

[Bench]

Georgia is to Florida what OU and A&M combined is to UT.  Georgia is THE game for Florida.

I did not know that.  I just figured it was the "cocktail party" to OU and UT's "shootout." 

[AtascAstro]

I assumed the blackout quotes pertained to the schools moving to the Pac, it would be grand hubris indeed to presume one could speak for the non-Big 12 schools.  UH, TCU, SMU would obviously love to play A&M anywhere, anytime.

And I have no doubt that this is about UT and UT only.  A&M would love nothing more than to be done with Tech forever.  They probably wouldn't lose any sleep over the Oklahoma schools either.  UT will decide whether or not that game gets played.  Undoubtably it is a bigger deal to A&M and they will seek to continue the game.  UT's decision may be financial and it may be spiteful, may even be part of both.  But if they choose to discountinue the series, I bet you hear a great chorus from Aggieland about how UT is being stubborn and petulant and selfish...

[Bench]

 But if they choose to discountinue the series, I bet you hear a great chorus from Aggieland about how UT is being stubborn and petulant and selfish...

Regardless of any actual authority, I doubt our legislature would permit the series to be discontinued.

[chuck]

But have you seen where Texas (through Ketchum and Brown) have said that NO Texas schools will play A&M?  Why should SMU, TCU, UH, Rice, North Texas and the rest give two shits about what Texas thinks they should do.

Maybe, thinking independently, they don't want the SEC to gain any more of a recruiting foothold in Texas, either.

[AtascAstro]

Maybe, thinking independently, they don't want the SEC to gain any more of a recruiting foothold in Texas, either.

I can't imagine any of the other schools like it, but I have a hard time believing that any of them would pass up the payday.

[HudsonHawk]

Maybe, thinking independently, they don't want the SEC to gain any more of a recruiting foothold in Texas, either.

This is way overblown.  You think the schools in the SEC don't already know there are good HS players in Texas?

[AtascAstro]

This is way overblown.  You think the schools in the SEC don't already know there are good HS players in Texas?

There are plenty that have never given a second thought to either of the Mississippi schools or Kentucky.  Those are exactly the kind of players that a TCU, UH, or SMU might be after.  Having an SEC writeup in the Chronicle, DMN, and SA Express every week will absolutely impact recruiting for every single school in (or near) Texas.

[HudsonHawk]

There are plenty that have never given a second thought to either of the Mississippi schools or Kentucky.  Those are exactly the kind of players that a TCU, UH, or SMU might be after.  Having an SEC writeup in the Chronicle, DMN, and SA Express every week will absolutely impact recruiting for every single school in (or near) Texas.

So let me ask it another way...you think there are HS players being recruited who aren't aware of the SEC?  You think there are players now who would say "you know, I was gonna go to UH, but A&M is now in the SEC, so I'm going to Kentucky"?

Secondly, I don't see where this impacts UT.  I don't see where kids who would otherwise go to UT are now going to go to Kentucky because A&M is in the SEC.

[austro]

There are plenty that have never given a second thought to either of the Mississippi schools or Kentucky.  Those are exactly the kind of players that a TCU, UH, or SMU might be after.  Having an SEC writeup in the Chronicle, DMN, and SA Express every week will absolutely impact recruiting for every single school in (or near) Texas.

In this day and age of information overload, I can't imagine that a player good enough to play at one of those SEC schools isn't already being recruited by them.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

 But if they choose to discountinue the series, I bet you hear a great chorus from Aggieland about how UT is being stubborn and petulant and selfish...

It would also leave UT with their sole in-state rival as... wait for it... Texas Tech.  Yeah, that sounds really intriguing.

[HudsonHawk]

In this day and age of information overload, I can't imagine that a player good enough to play at one of those SEC schools isn't already being recruited by them.

I can see where those kids aren't being recruited by certain SEC schools, but I don't think it's because those schools don't feel they have "permission" to do so.

[AtascAstro]

I can see where those kids aren't being recruited by certain SEC schools, but I don't think it's because those schools don't feel they have "permission" to do so.

You've got to compare Apples to Apples.  For UH, TCU, SMU, Tech, and OSU we are talking about 3* rated players (middle tier).  There are lots of those type players.  Recruiting of those players is impacted heavily by coaches and family members, which requires a certain level of exposure to develop good relationships with.  Currently, schools like Ole Miss, Miss State, and Kentucky might cherry pick a few but don't have enough exposure in  Texas to build the kind of relationships that you need for heavy recruiting.  A bi-annual visit to College Station would change that.

UT would be largely unaffected, but would feel more pressure for their top players from the likes of LSU and Alabama.

[AtascAstro]

It would also leave UT with their sole in-state rival as... wait for it... Texas Tech.  Yeah, that sounds really intriguing.

Like it or not, that game has been nationally relevant for several years running, whereas UT vs A&M has been a regional novelty.

A good conference should provide good drama, competition, and rivalry every week.  UT already has OU.

[HudsonHawk]

UT would be largely unaffected, but would feel more pressure for their top players from the likes of LSU and Alabama.

Why?

[MRaup]

Why?

Because SEC schools will have a lot more face-time in Texas and on Texas recruit TVs if they're coming through playing A&M every year.

[HudsonHawk]

Because SEC schools will have a lot more face-time in Texas and on Texas recruit TVs if they're coming through playing A&M every year.

I don't buy that the SEC is a relative unknown.  Perhaps 30 years ago it would have been an issue.  But in today's world of constant media saturation, I just don't think there are guys UT is recruiting that are unaware of the SEC schools.

[AtascAstro]

Why?

Because a significant portion of 4* & 5* athletes are raised by their mom and or grandma.  Mom and grandma don't watch ESPN, and they didn't go to college but they watch the 10 oclock news and read the local paper.  They've heard of Mack Brown and they know that the University of Texas is a big deal.  The rich folk in town seem to like them.  That is a bias that SEC coaches currently have to overcome to recruit certain Texas players.

These kids often lack the skills to make this decision on their own and are heavily influenced by mom, dad, grandma, girlfriend, pastor, coach, or best friend.  Regular SEC coverage and games in Texas brings Saban et al much closer to Mack Brown in starting position.

[AtascAstro]

I don't buy that the SEC is a relative unknown.  Perhaps 30 years ago it would have been an issue.  But in today's world of constant media saturation, I just don't think there are guys UT is recruiting that are unaware of the SEC schools.

How closely do you follow recruiting?  You wouldn't believe how hard coaches work to manage that relationship.  Kids from affluent families tend to be locked up early.  The ones that tend to be highly competitive are almost always from the other side of the tracks and their influences are not what I would call media saturated.

[HudsonHawk]

Because a significant portion of 4* & 5* athletes are raised by their mom and or grandma.  Mom and grandma don't watch ESPN, and they didn't go to college but they watch the 10 oclock news and read the local paper.  They've heard of Mack Brown and they know that the University of Texas is a big deal.  The rich folk in town seem to like them.  That is a bias that SEC coaches currently have to overcome to recruit certain Texas players.

These kids often lack the skills to make this decision on their own and are heavily influenced by mom, dad, grandma, girlfriend, pastor, coach, or best friend.  Regular SEC coverage and games in Texas brings Saban et al much closer to Mack Brown in starting position.

I still think this is way overblown in this day and age. 

[HudsonHawk]

How closely do you follow recruiting? 

Reasonably closely.  And I flat out reject your argument here.

[AtascAstro]

Reasonably closely.  And I flat out reject your argument here.

Fair enough, just my opinion.  Those angles seem to get a lot of play in the recruiting write-ups that I see in January.  Like I said, I think the impact is much more significant to Tech, OSU, UH, TCU, SMU than UT.

[HudsonHawk]

Fair enough, just my opinion.  Those angles seem to get a lot of play in the recruiting write-ups that I see in January.  Like I said, I think the impact is much more significant to Tech, OSU, UH, TCU, SMU than UT.

Well, the impact to UT is the subject of the discussion.  I don't imagine they care if SMU or UH loses recruits to Kentucky.  In fact, I doubt they care if anyone, other than themselves, loses recruits to Kentucky.

[Lurch]

But have you seen where Texas (through Ketchum and Brown) have said that NO Texas schools will play A&M? 

You have a link?

[AtascAstro]

Well, the impact to UT is the subject of the discussion.  I don't imagine they care if SMU or UH loses recruits to Kentucky.  In fact, I doubt they care if anyone, other than themselves, loses recruits to Kentucky.

I don't understand why it has to be "the" factor in order to be relevant.  You are argueing that the effect is overestimated, but I have yet to see any arguement that UT benefits from the introduction of the SEC.  They have nothing to gain, but might have something (some say much) to lose.  Mack Brown strikes me as the type to zealously guard any advantage (real or perceived).  Acting purely in their best interest, they should oppose the move.

[HudsonHawk]

I have yet to see any arguement that UT benefits from the introduction of the SEC.

That's because no one is making that argument. 

[Random]

As far as the recruiting angle goes, all I can say as a college football with no rooting interest, I am far more familiar with K-State and OSU football than I am with Ole Miss and MSU.  I think that has everything to do with which schools the area teams play on a regular basis and who, in turn, gets more local media coverage.

[HudsonHawk]

As far as the recruiting angle goes, all I can say as a college football with no rooting interest, I am far more familiar with K-State and OSU football than I am with Ole Miss and MSU.  I think that has everything to do with which schools the area teams play on a regular basis and who, in turn, gets more local media coverage.

Are you being recruited?

[Random]

Are you being recruited?

Familiarity with a school and its football program plays a big role in recruiting.  It's not a stretch to imagine that familiarity amongst the general populace would extend to football recruits also.

[Phil_in_CS]

Familiarity with a school and its football program plays a big role in recruiting.  It's not a stretch to imagine that familiarity amongst the general populace would extend to football recruits also.

And who is unfamiliar w/ Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, etc? Those teams are on TV every week, a Texas school in the SEC or not.

If A&M and UT do split, Jerry Jones and Cowboy Stadium will host the football game, national TV, as big or bigger than it is now.

My bro in law and his rabid aggie buddies are pulling for an SEC deal. They claim its for better basketball and baseball games here (since we common folks are priced out of going to football games) but I think its to get away from UT's shadow. I'm not sure how wide spread that feeling is. Living in College Station for 30 years has left me pretty cynical towards A&M sports.

[HudsonHawk]

Familiarity with a school and its football program plays a big role in recruiting.  It's not a stretch to imagine that familiarity amongst the general populace would extend to football recruits also.

Kids being recruited by BCS level schools are not ignorant of their existence.  Kids in the Houston area are much more familiar with LSU's program than they are with Iowa State's, but I don't see where that means that UT is losing recruits to Vanderbilt or Kentucky.

[JackAstro]

Dude, no one – in any conference – is losing recruits to Vanderbilt and Kentucky.

[Alkie]

Dude, no one – in any conference – is losing recruits to Vanderbilt and Kentucky.

Not for football, no.

[chuck]

Kids being recruited by BCS level schools are not ignorant of their existence.  Kids in the Houston area are much more familiar with LSU's program than they are with Iowa State's, but I don't see where that means that UT is losing recruits to Vanderbilt or Kentucky.

I am not talking about UT losing recruits to anyone else. I'm talking about why TCU and SMU and Rice and UH and Baylor and Tech and anyone else in Texas who is not UT would possibly object to the Aggies going to the SEC and opening the state of Texas recruiting door wider to SEC schools. As far as I can tell everyone in this thread recognizes this as a distinct possibility except you who for reasons unclear to the rest of us or at least to me flatly reject it.

[Duman]

Bham News columnist Kevin Scarbinski saying bigger isn't always better when it comes to conferences:

Whatever the final makeup of the Pac-10 Plus, it won’t be a conference. Not from the start. It’ll be a marriage of convenience. It’ll be a loosely tied collection of disparate institutions that offers them a lot more money but a lot less stability than they’ve enjoyed before.
Scott’s guiding principle behind his current and pending mergers and acquisitions seems to be that bigger is better. Hey, there’s nothing necessarily wrong with stretching your geographic footprint until it resembles a clown shoe, but size only matters up to a point....
A superconference also needs a sense among its members that, no matter how strong they are as individual institutions, they’re stronger together, that they belong to something bigger than themselves....
Nothing is bigger than Texas, and Texas knows it, and Texas wants you to know it, too. The eyes of Texas aren’t upon you. They’re upon Texas.

[AtascAstro]

Good Lord what a circus...

Rumors du jour:

 - Beebee is throwing around $17 million figure for a Big 12(-2) contract.  (also rumored to be based on an 18 year deal, lolz)
 - TAMU has already voted 6-3 to go SEC and kicked Scott (Pac 10 commish) out of CS (yes, apparently the old rules for regent meetings no longer apply)
 - UT ready to declare commitment to Big 12(-2) today
 - Pac 10 has set a Friday deadline
 - Arkansas has sent out feelers about joining the remapped Big 12(-2) to make them the Big 12 (-2+1).

**ETA
 - Texas Legislature has scheduled a hearing for Wednesday.  Soap box futures way up.

[Ebby Calvin]

Good Lord what a circus...

Rumors du jour:

 - Beebee is throwing around $17 million figure for a Big 12(-2) contract.  (also rumored to be based on an 18 year deal, lolz)
 - UT ready to declare commitment to Big 12(-2) today

Wait, what?  Texas to commit to the Big 12?  $17 million for a contract? Isn't that Aggie chump change?

I'm confused.

[AtascAstro]

Wait, what?  Texas to commit to the Big 12?  $17 million for a contract? Isn't that Aggie chump change?

I'm confused.

So is Chip Brown, I think.  Although, in his defense, I think he's being played.

Hot off the presses...
 - State rep Garnet Coleman demanding that UH be included in a new Big12.

Looks like flys in the legislature just caught wind of a fresh turd...

[Alkie]

So is Chip Brown, I think.  Although, in his defense, I think he's being played.

Hot off the presses...
 - State rep Garnet Coleman demanding that UH be included in a new Big12.

Looks like flys in the legislature just caught wind of a fresh turd...

THIS JUST IN...
Local Imbecile and Drunkard Alkie von Hotpants demands that UTEP be allowed into, and named automatic champion of, the NFC East. 

[AtascAstro]

THIS JUST IN...
Local Imbecile and Drunkard Alkie von Hotpants demands that UTEP be allowed into, and named automatic champion of, the NFC East. 

Actually, you should move back and run for state office.  I think I could actually enjoy reading the minutes of those sessions.

[Alkie]

Actually, you should move back and run for state office.  I think I could actually enjoy reading the minutes of those sessions.

Alkie and politics don't mix.   I have my strong opinions on everything, of course, but the idea of being a part of that bullshit lunacy makes me angry just thinking about it.   My hand would be sore from all the heads that I'd have slap upside.

[MusicMan]

My hand would be sore from all the heads that I'd have slap upside.

Isn't your hand already sore?

[Alkie]

Isn't your hand already sore?

My RIGHT hand would also be sore, is what I should have said.

[MusicMan]

My RIGHT hand would also be sore, is what I should have said.

I never figured you for the off-hand approach.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

My RIGHT hand would also be sore, is what I should have said.

Good thing you're not ambidextrous.

[Andyzipp]

17 per team, per year sounds great.  For 18 years sounds horrible.

Big 10 and SEC will likely be making double that by then.  Bebee is a moron.

[MusicMan]

Bebee is a moron.

My thought is that UT is using Bebee to keep the political heat on the Aggies.  "Oh, Bebee has this wonderful TV offer?  Oh, WE'LL stay... how about you, Ags?  No?  OK, off to the Pac-16 we go, IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT."

[Alkie]

I never figured you for the off-hand approach.

You use your off-hand for your mouse? 

[MusicMan]

You use your off-hand for your mouse? 

I resent the size implications of "mouse".  A Louisiana nutria, minimum.

[Andyzipp]

My thought is that UT is using Bebee to keep the political heat on the Aggies.  "Oh, Bebee has this wonderful TV offer?  Oh, WE'LL stay... how about you, Ags?  No?  OK, off to the Pac-16 we go, IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT."

Oh sure,  I just assumed everyone was tired of me bitching about Texas' manuvering in this.

And I'm to the point where I'm fine with A&M taking the fall for the Big 12. Ultimately, a reconstituted Big 12-2 is going to fail the same way the SWC did anyway.  I'd rather not be a part of it.

[MusicMan]

Oh sure,  I just assumed everyone was tired of me bitching about Texas' manuvering in this.

And I'm to the point where I'm fine with A&M taking the fall for the Big 12. Ultimately, a reconstituted Big 12-2 is going to fail the same way the SWC did anyway.  I'd rather not be a part of it.

I'm with you.

[Bench]

So is Chip Brown, I think.  Although, in his defense, I think he's being played.

Hot off the presses...
 - State rep Garnet Coleman demanding that UH be included in a new Big12.

Looks like flys in the legislature just caught wind of a fresh turd...

Hooray!  Cougar roar!  Inappropriate hand gesture!

[AtascAstro]

Pretty smart move actually, it is much more difficult for your opposition to organize and gain support if they lack certainity of what it is exactly that you are going to do.

[Andyzipp]

Pretty smart move actually, it is much more difficult for your opposition to organize and gain support if they lack certainity of what it is exactly that you are going to do.

The opposition is organized.  The issue now becomes perception.  The perception will now be that Texas is doing everything it can to save the conference (such as it is).  Locally, this really only benefits Baylor.  It will now be A&M's fault if the Big 12 can't be salvaged.

[jbm]

The reporter on espn just said the effort to save the big 12 is a non-starter. Said the PAC 10 merger, with no ags, is done, probably with Utah instead of Kansas.

[JimR]

My thought is that UT is using Bebee to keep the political heat on the Aggies.  "Oh, Bebee has this wonderful TV offer?  Oh, WE'LL stay... how about you, Ags?  No?  OK, off to the Pac-16 we go, IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT."

the ability to form/have a UT TV network has been a goal of Dodds from the beginning.

[MusicMan]

the ability to form/have a UT TV network has been a goal of Dodds from the beginning.

for several years, in fact.  But it's a means to an end, and if the overall $ from Pac-16 is greater than the Big XII dollars + LSN dollars, then that's what we want.

[Duke]

The opposition is organized.  The issue now becomes perception.  The perception will now be that Texas is doing everything it can to save the conference (such as it is).  Locally, this really only benefits Baylor.  It will now be A&M's fault if the Big 12 can't be salvaged.

I guess I'm seeing this a little differently.  It seems to me that by slowing down their agreeinbg to move to the PAC-10 and considering the SEC, the Ags gave Beebe some time to work some TV assurances.  If the Big 12 lives on, the Ags would get the credit.

[Andyzipp]

I guess I'm seeing this a little differently.  It seems to me that by slowing down their agreeinbg to move to the PAC-10 and considering the SEC, the Ags gave Beebe some time to work some TV assurances.  If the Big 12 lives on, the Ags would get the credit.

I am highly skeptical of the numbers Bebee is throwing around.  The length of the contract is concerning, and it makes no sense that FSN would pay more for what is obstensibly a lesser product.

I'm guessing those numbers have quite a few conditions to them, things like Arkansas leaving the SEC (doutbtful, but supposedly they'd listen) and finding a suitable 12th team to go along that actually brings something to the table, market wise (read, not TCU or UH).

I think (hope) it's a bluff.

[HudsonHawk]

As far as I can tell everyone in this thread recognizes this as a distinct possibility except you who for reasons unclear to the rest of us or at least to me flatly reject it.

The discussion is about why UT would object to A&M moving to the SEC.  I've explained the reasons why I don't think it makes a material difference to UT's recruiting.  I can't understand it for you.

[MusicMan]

I don't think it makes any substantial difference to recruiting.  I think it hurts TV contract negotiations.

[AtascAstro]

I love the latest update for Brown...wording is brilliant and totally transparent

UT is committed to "coming to the table" with the remaining Big 12 schools.

[Waldo]

I am highly skeptical of the numbers Bebee is throwing around.

I feel the same way, especially if it's based on a 10-team league.

[Froback]

I don't think it makes any substantial difference to recruiting.  I think it hurts TV contract negotiations.

The only way it makes an impact on UT recruiting (and this is highly speculative) is that A&M might "steal" recruits with the idea of playing in the SEC (a better conference) and still staying in Texas.

Now that is vastly tempered by UT have the sweet deal like it does in the Big-12 where it basically is an automatic max 1 loss team heading into bowl selection which has meant a BCS bowl every year.  That is hard to sell against for any HS recruit.  So I don't think Texas recruiting will change. 

However I do think A&M would see a boost in recruits that might have gone elsewhere, that choose A&M instead of going to somewhere outside of Texas.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

The only way it makes an impact on UT recruiting (and this is highly speculative) is that A&M might "steal" recruits with the idea of playing in the SEC (a better conference) and still staying in Texas.

Now that is vastly tempered by UT have the sweet deal like it does in the Big-12 where it basically is an automatic max 1 loss team heading into bowl selection which has meant a BCS bowl every year.  That is hard to sell against for any HS recruit.  So I don't think Texas recruiting will change. 

However I do think A&M would see a boost in recruits that might have gone elsewhere, that choose A&M instead of going to somewhere outside of Texas.

I think these are safe assumptions, on all points.  For UT and A&M, it's win-win and not so much the other Texas/Big 12 schools.  I think, for UT/A&M, the continuation of the Thankgiving Day matchup will make that game even better. 

[Andyzipp]

The only way it makes an impact on UT recruiting (and this is highly speculative) is that A&M might "steal" recruits with the idea of playing in the SEC (a better conference) and still staying in Texas.

Now that is vastly tempered by UT have the sweet deal like it does in the Big-12 where it basically is an automatic max 1 loss team heading into bowl selection which has meant a BCS bowl every year.  That is hard to sell against for any HS recruit.  So I don't think Texas recruiting will change. 

However I do think A&M would see a boost in recruits that might have gone elsewhere, that choose A&M instead of going to somewhere outside of Texas.

I think A&M (by itself) to the SEC will affect OUs recruiting more than it will Texas'.  Even for that brief period when A&M was beating Texas consistently in Football, UT was still recruiting very well.

A&M's decline over the last decade (while driven by a number of factors) has a pretty close relationship to OUs resurgence since 2000.

[Lurch]

Why would Arkansas want to leave the SEC?  Would anyone else?

[MusicMan]

A&M's decline over the last decade (while driven by a number of factors) has a pretty close relationship to OUs resurgence since 2000.

As well as LSU's.

[Andyzipp]

Why would Arkansas want to leave the SEC?  Would anyone else?

They wouldn't unless the money would be better.

[Duman]

Why would Arkansas want to leave the SEC?  Would anyone else?

revisionist history of the good old days in the SWC, since the current days haven't been to kind in the SEC (esp. in Football)

[Lurch]

They wouldn't unless the money would be better.

LSU?

[Duman]

What can FED EX do for you?  10 mil per year to any BCS conference willing to bring in Memphis.

[Jacksonian]

LSU?

Never.  LSU is part of the SEC's bread and butter.  They anchor the west.  Florida, the east.

[JackAstro]

As far as recruiting goes, shouldn't A&M be more concerned than any other Texas school regarding a move to the SEC? Most Arkansas fans that I know have expressed varying degrees of angst about their recruiting in the years since leaving the SWC. I know it's different, since A&M is actually in Texas, but fewer games would be played in-state, and turning attention is east is pretty tough sledding.

[Andyzipp]

Never.  LSU is part of the SEC's bread and butter.  They anchor the west.  Florida, the east.

Agreed.  Arkansas (maybe SC) would be the only hope to get a team to leave the SEC.

But they'd be leaving basically guaranteed money on the table for hope that Bebee's numbers are right in the Big 12. 

[HudsonHawk]

Ultimately, a reconstituted Big 12-2 is going to fail the same way the SWC did anyway. 

NCAA violations?

[Duman]

Never.  LSU is part of the SEC's bread and butter.  They anchor the west.  Florida, the east.

Bama might say their anchor is bigger.

[Jacksonian]

Bama might say their anchor is bigger.

But they're not west.  They're central.  Their anchor is different, IMO.  It's more conference wide/national, than regional.  IMO, they're the heart of the SEC's stability and power.

[Duman]

But they're not west.  They're central.  Their anchor is different, IMO.  It's more conference wide/national, than regional.  IMO, they're the heart of the SEC's stability and power.

I thought you were talking conference divisions since you mentioned LSU in West and Fla in the East.  I see what you are getting at now.  By that analogy, I think that makes U of TN the armpit.  I like it.

[Jacksonian]

I thought you were talking conference divisions since you mentioned LSU in West and Fla in the East.  I see what you are getting at now.  By that analogy, I think that makes U of TN the armpit.  I like it.

Spoken like a true Auburnite.

UK or even UK/Tn is a weak northern anchor, IMO.  Maybe adding VT to UK and Tn would help, but I'm not convinced.