Roy O to Phillies

[Noe]

Saying all the right things about wanting to stay of course, but he really is saying he 1) expects them to explore a trade and 2) he's pitching well enough to draw a lot of interest and 3) he doesn't want to go just anywhere, he'll have to approve the trade.

I think this will somehow escalate at the deadline nears, but now I have no doubt a trade is really a good possibility.  So here is the question: Do you think it would be wise for the Astros to do it?

[Jacksonian]

Saying all the right things about wanting to stay of course, but he really is saying he 1) expects them to explore a trade and 2) he's pitching well enough to draw a lot of interest and 3) he doesn't want to go just anywhere, he'll have to approve the trade.

I think this will somehow escalate at the deadline nears, but now I have no doubt a trade is really a good possibility.  So here is the question: Do you think it would be wise for the Astros to do it?

Depends on the return.  Same goes for dealing Berkman.

[astrosfan76]

Depends on the return.  Same goes for dealing Berkman.

I agree and don't trade one if you have no interest in trading the other. 

[Jacksonian]

I agree and don't trade one if you have no interest in trading the other. 

I don't agree with that.  Again, depends on the return.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

So what's the ideal return?  Pitcher(s) or position player(s)?

[Ebby Calvin]

So what's the ideal return?  Pitcher(s) or position player(s)?

Yes.

[Lurch]

First question:
He routinely says he's not thinking about it until these two years are up and has implied that he's done then.  What probability do you put on him actually retiring after 2011?

Second question:
Do you think in 2012 he's likely to still be a productive starter, and for how many seasons after that?

Third question:
Could the Astros return to being WS competitive in 2012 without trading him?

To me, if he's likly to keep playing in 2012 at a high level and the Astros will be back in contention, I would want to keep him in the mud and blood.  Why trade him away for a bunch of kids that will need him (or someone of his caliber) to compete in a few years anyway.

If, however, he's not going to be around and productive in 2012 or the Astros wont have realistic expectations of WS contention that year, then you need to pull the trigger now (or whenever you think his stock value will peak between now and the trading deadline).  Having him next year for a rebuild helps no one, assuming the butt in seats value is less than the cost of developing the talent you'll need in 2012 to really put butts in seats. Of course, if Drayton doesnt think he'll be the owner in 2012, he has no reason to make such an investment...

[Jacksonian]

So what's the ideal return?  Pitcher(s) or position player(s)?

If Oswalt's pitching like an ace I'd expect a high quality 3 for 1.

[Navin R Johnson]

The Rangers have some interesting prospects considering their financial woes though, are they even possible as a trade partner?

[Bench]

First question:
He routinely says he's not thinking about it until these two years are up and has implied that he's done then.  What probability do you put on him actually retiring after 2011?

63%

Second question:
Do you think in 2012 he's likely to still be a productive starter, and for how many seasons after that?

Yes.  2.

Third question:
Could the Astros return to being WS competitive in 2012 without trading him?

Possibly.

[Jacksonian]

The Rangers have some interesting prospects considering their financial woes though, are they even possible as a trade partner?

That's a question best held until July.

[Limey]

That's a question best held until July.

Bingo!

[Noe]

Roy has basically said he'd like to be a Co-ard or a Bravos pitcher.  He is now saying he wants to go somewhere where he has a legitimate chance to win a ring, so his veto powers are about calling the shots in a trade scenario.  Just kind of putting myself away from being a fan of the Houston Astros for a minute, a Co-ard starting staff of Carpenter, Wainwright, Penny and Oswalt would be almost too much to dream about.  It would rival anything the Yankees or Phillies have going for them.

Just saying.

[Ron Brand]

I can't imagine the package they'd have to put together that would begin to tamp down the bile that floods my throat when I think of Oswalt as a Cardinal.

[OregonStrosFan]

I can't imagine the package they'd have to put together that would begin to tamp down the bile that floods my throat when I think of Oswalt as a Cardinal.

Oswalt to STL, [insert random Jake slug in this slot] to PIT, Lastings Milledge to HOU.  No WAY you could pass that up!!!

[Ron Brand]

Can I get pre-Botox Nicole Kidman as a throw-in?

[94CougarGrad]

Roy has basically said he'd like to be a Co-ard or a Bravos pitcher. 

Two of the three uniforms I simply could not STAND to see him in. The other being the FTCubs.

[Noe]

Iffin' they intend to trade him, it's to where he's gonna wanna go.  Boston is another destination.

[94CougarGrad]

Iffin' they intend to trade him, it's to where he's gonna wanna go.  Boston is another destination.

Better there than to the Turdinals, the Bravos, or the FTCubs, imho.

[subnuclear]

Iffin' they intend to trade him, it's to where he's gonna wanna go.  Boston is another destination.

All the Boston fans I know do nothing but bitch about how bad their team is doing.  I'm not sure what they have to give the Astros though.

[JimR]

i do not give a shit any more. i have been tired of his bs for quite some time. just get good players in return.

[Ron Brand]

It would help a lot if he was at least outside of the division. I hate the Braves, but less than the 3rds or the FTC, to be sure.

[hostros7]

I wouldn't mind getting Beckham from the Pale Sox.  I know he's sucked this year, but he can play (allegedly) 3rd or 2nd.  Roy would be with manlove peavy, and it's not like the Sox have been shy to make trades even with slim shots at making the playoffs.  It's not a rental with Roy O at least.

[roadrunner]

Not that it really matters this year, but it's kind of disheartening to hear your big 3 stars talk about being traded to a contender or retiring in the middle of fucking May.

Any logical person that follows the Astros knows that they have no chance at the playoffs this year, but that doesn't mean the players have to give up on the season 6 weeks into it.

[hostros7]

Not that it really matters this year, but it's kind of disheartening to hear your big 3 stars talk about being traded to a contender or retiring in the middle of fucking May.

Any logical person that follows the Astros knows that they have no chance at the playoffs this year, but that doesn't mean the players have to give up on the season 6 weeks into it.

Agreed.  Just go do your job and let management do its and things will take care of themselves. 

[Fredia]

do you think if oswalt went to another team it would improve it to the point of winning in a playoff situeuaiton

[Bench]

Agreed.  Just go do your job and let management do its and things will take care of themselves. 

He's being asked questions and he's answering them semi-honestly.  Good enough for me.

Besides, isn't Oswalt already a Met?

[astrosfan76]

I don't agree with that.  Again, depends on the return.

My point is that if you trade one, you're throwing in the towel for next season, as well.  You might as well call it rebuilding and trade both.  I'm not advocating taking a junk offer, but you have to at least be willing to trade both in that situation.  

[Lurch]

My point is that if you trade one, you're throwing in the towel for next season, as well.  You might as well call it rebuilding and trade both.  I'm not advocating taking a junk offer, but you have to at least be willing to trade both in that situation.  

If you dont trade them, is next year really the target comeback year?

[Bench]

Oswalt to STL, [insert random Jake slug in this slot] to PIT, Lastings Milledge to HOU.  No WAY you could pass that up!!!

Perhaps Milledge is Oswalt's doppelganger.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I'm not a big fan of this idea, trading Oswalt, but if they are going to do it, someone needs to tie Carlos Lee to the deal.  That's my two cents.

[Reuben]

I'm not a big fan of this idea, trading Oswalt, but if they are going to do it, someone needs to tie Carlos Lee to the deal.  That's my two cents.

That'd be tough to do, considering Oswalt has a fairly big contract as well, and Lee's deal was heavily back-loaded. At that point it'd be more about eating salary- a lot of salary- to buy decent prospects, rather than getting a good package for Oswalt and not paying any salary.

[astrosfan76]

If you dont trade them, is next year really the target comeback year?

Not really, but they're not going to say otherwise if they go with the status quo.  Trading even one of the two shows a shift in focus from "now, while building for the future" to just "building for the future."   

[austro]

Not really, but they're not going to say otherwise if they go with the status quo.  Trading even one of the two shows a shift in focus from "now, while building for the future" to just "building for the future."   

But it's clear there is no "now", and anybody who actually believes that there is will be taken advantage of in a trade.

[94CougarGrad]

situeuaiton

Now *that* is an impressive vowel movement.

[astrosfan76]

But it's clear there is no "now", and anybody who actually believes that there is will be taken advantage of in a trade.

True, there is no "now," but Wade's orders since day 1 have been to field a contender now while building for the future.  Even going into this season, that has been the direction taken/advertised.  Trading a star (with no obvious replacement) tells everyone that the team is giving up on that idea.  We can only hope we could find a team to take advantage of.

[Noe]

True, there is no "now," but Wade's orders since day 1 have been to field a contender now while building for the future.  Even going into this season, that has been the direction taken/advertised.  Trading a star (with no obvious replacement) tells everyone that the team is giving up on that idea.  We can only hope we could find a team to take advantage of.

Methinks the fans are on to the Astros not being competitive enough to make the playoffs this year (despite the Foghorn pleas to the contrary).  If there were not, the turnstiles would be turning and McLane would be saying "Oswalt is going nowhere as long as I'm the owner".  Or something like that.  I like that the Astros *ARE* building for the future with their High A and AA players, but they're going to need more.  This may be an opportunity more than a bad idea.

It all depends on your perspective I suppose, but this may be a win-win if you're a fan of Oswalt.  He gets to go where he wants to go, primarily a World Series contender, and Houston gets to get better really quicker than two years and a hope the prospects pan out.  Would Philly or Tampa Bay be a destination?  Especially Philly if they get wind that Oswalt may be a fit in St. Louis?  

[Reuben]

Methinks the fans are on to the Astros not being competitive enough to make the playoffs this year (despite the Foghorn pleas to the contrary).  If there were not, the turnstiles would be turning and McLane would be saying "Oswalt is going nowhere as long as I'm the owner".  Or something like that.  I like that the Astros *ARE* building for the future with their High A and AA players, but they're going to need more.  This may be an opportunity more than a bad idea.

It all depends on your perspective I suppose, but this may be a win-win if you're a fan of Oswalt.  He gets to go where he wants to go, primarily a World Series contender, and Houston gets to get better really quicker than two years and a hope the prospects pan out.  Would Philly or Tampa Bay be a destination?  Especially Philly if they get wind that Oswalt may be a fit in St. Louis?  

The Rays have a 2.80-something ERA as a team right now, and all 5 of their starters are doing well. Maybe if somebody struggles a bit, and they decide they want a guy like Oswalt to provide some leadership (or at least "veteran presence")?

The Phils seem like they could use Oswalt for sure, though they may be reluctant to gut their prospects for a third straight year.

[astrosfan76]

The Rays have a 2.80-something ERA as a team right now, and all 5 of their starters are doing well. Maybe if somebody struggles a bit, and they decide they want a guy like Oswalt to provide some leadership (or at least "veteran presence")?

The Phils seem like they could use Oswalt for sure, though they may be reluctant to gut their prospects for a third straight year.

I wouldn't oppose taking Dominic Brown off their hands if they were willing.

It's hard to size up the market right now.  Most "true contenders" either don't have the money, the need, or the prospects to swing a deal.  The Rangers could end up as the best fit, if they can find an owner. 

[juliogotay]

I wouldn't oppose taking Dominic Brown off their hands if they were willing.

It's hard to size up the market right now.  Most "true contenders" either don't have the money, the need, or the prospects to swing a deal.  The Rangers could end up as the best fit, if they can find an owner. 

The Rangers ownership situation should be cleared up by July. So says Selig but at this point it wouldn't totally surprise me if not. Apparantly, it's a mess.

[Noe]

It's where Oswalt wants to go and what contender wants to increase their chances to win it all (not just win).  Teams are going to line up, but most of them will be out in terms of what Oswalt wants to do.  Houston will be able to entertain offers from contenders, it just what they're ready to trade and if Oswalt wants to go there (re: Rangers?  I don't think so).

[OregonStrosFan]

Footer quotes Roy (via Twitter here and here) after the game: 

"I felt good. Not as good as I felt my last start, but good enough to lose."

"All I can do is pitch. There's nothing else I can do. And see what happens."

[matadorph]

Good enough to lose?

Good lord, it must suck to be pissy Roy Oswalt making a shit ton of cash from an old geezer grocery supplier. Trade his ass at the deadline, Ed. Get all you can get.

[OregonStrosFan]

McTaggart with some more postgame comments:  LINK

Oswalt was clearly upset about the lack of run support.

"I knew I needed to probably throw a shutout, you know, maybe we can get one [run]," he said. "A pitch backed up on me on a slider. I was trying to go down and away, and it backed up over the plate."

Teammate Lance Berkman was asked point-blankly what he thought of Oswalt's comments about the lack of run support: "We're a team, you know what I'm saying?" he said. "As much as you want to cry for a guy not getting run support, it's a team game. We win as a team, we lose as a team, and we lost today. I certainly understand his frustration, but it's not like we're not trying. We're out there grinding them out and trying to score some runs, and it hasn't happened."

[Navin R Johnson]

Footer quotes Roy (via Twitter here and here) after the game: 

"I felt good. Not as good as I felt my last start, but good enough to lose."

"All I can do is pitch. There's nothing else I can do. And see what happens."

From McTaggart's blog
http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/05/frustrations-all-around-with-astros.html

Teammate Lance Berkman was asked point-blankly what he thought of Oswalt's comments about the lack of run support: "We're a team, you know what I'm saying?" he said. "As much as you want to cry for a guy not getting run support, it's a team game. We win as a team, we lose as a team, and we lost today. I certainly understand his frustration, but it's not like we're not trying. We're out there grinding them out and trying to score some runs, and it hasn't happened." 

[Guinness]

Oswalt was clearly upset about the lack of run support.

"I knew I needed to probably throw a shutout, you know, maybe we can get one [run]," he said. "A pitch backed up on me on a slider. I was trying to go down and away, and it backed up over the plate."

That's a pretty shitty comment to make to the press.  Seriously crosses the line.

[Alkie]

It's where Oswalt wants to go and what contender wants to increase their chances to win it all (not just win).  Teams are going to line up, but most of them will be out in terms of what Oswalt wants to do.  Houston will be able to entertain offers from contenders, it just what they're ready to trade and if Oswalt wants to go there (re: Rangers?  I don't think so).

Where are the Weir Mudbugs in the standings and do they have a slugging corner OF and a Grade A starter prospect?

[chuck]

Why the fuck is everyone ready to jump on Roy about his very, very mild public display of what must be profound frustration? The every-day player with the highest average in the lineup today was Humberto Fucking Quintero. Roy is more than holding up his end of things, 3-4-5 are a fucking cipher. The rest of the lineup is, too, excepting Bourn, but the rest of the lineup was expected to be a cipher.

Sure, Lance, it's a team game, and the team has a better chance to win when you hit.

[Guinness]

Why the fuck is everyone ready to jump on Roy about his very, very mild public display of what must be profound frustration? The every-day player with the highest average in the lineup today was Humberto Fucking Quintero. Roy is more than holding up his end of things, 3-4-5 are a fucking cipher. The rest of the lineup is, too, excepting Bourn, but the rest of the lineup was expected to be a cipher.

Sure, Lance, it's a team game, and the team has a better chance to win when you hit.

Well how many Oswalt Innings have there been and how many has Berkman gone public about?

[OregonStrosFan]

Why the fuck is everyone ready to jump on Roy about his very, very mild public display of what must be profound frustration?

In my version of the Oswalt to English translation book his comments read "trade me, NOW!"  Roy is one of my favorite 'Stros, but his childish antics are getting old. 

[OregonStrosFan]

Fuck the Cubs (or Cards, your choice)!

[OregonStrosFan]

Well how many Oswalt Innings have there been and how many has Berkman gone public about?

Not pleased with Roy's comments, but Berkman could have kept his big mouth shut as well.  WWBD?

[Alkie]

  WWBD?

Double and homer, driving in 4, making this a moot point.

[matadorph]

Well how many Oswalt Innings have there been and how many has Berkman gone public about?

this right here.

[chuck]

You guys can spin this any way you want but who's pitching like an ace on a hapless fucking team and who's making $14MM and hitting .250?

I already know who's making $18MM and hitting .180.

[matadorph]

You guys can spin this any way you want but who's pitching like an ace on a hapless fucking team and who's making $14MM and hitting .250?

I already know who's making $18MM and hitting .180.

What spin? Cmon, chuck, we all agree that Roy has been nails this year and he deserves better run support from the middle of the order, but slagging your teammates in the postgame is not something a veteran of his stature should do. 

[Lurch]

I think that was a tip of the cap to Lincecum.  ANY pitcher facing him has to hope for 1 or 2 runs.

[Mr. Happy]

I think that was a tip of the cap to Lincecum.  ANY pitcher facing him has to hope for 1 or 2 runs.

The funny thing is that Lincecum really struggled yesterday with his command. When he's on, throwing four different pitches with good command of all of them, he's really good. We had a chance against him yesterday.

[JimR]

Why the fuck is everyone ready to jump on Roy about his very, very mild public display of what must be profound frustration? The every-day player with the highest average in the lineup today was Humberto Fucking Quintero. Roy is more than holding up his end of things, 3-4-5 are a fucking cipher. The rest of the lineup is, too, excepting Bourn, but the rest of the lineup was expected to be a cipher.

Sure, Lance, it's a team game, and the team has a better chance to win when you hit.

because it is a team game. that is a very simple concept. should the hitters rip him to the press for his Oswalt innings? no, they should not.

[MusicMan]

Exactly.  Did Biggio and Bagwell rip Roy for turning the tide of the World Series with his meltdown?

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I'm not sure where the disconnect is occurring.  No one has an issue with Roy being frustrated.  It's the venting to the media.  One is human, the other immature.  No one is saying Roy can't feel how he feels.  He just needs to keep it behind the clubhouse doors.  The unfortunate part is, this isn't a first for this type of behavior. 

[JimR]

I'm not sure where the disconnect is occurring.  No one has an issue with Roy being frustrated.  It's the venting to the media.  One is human, the other immature.  No one is saying Roy can't feel how he feels.  He just needs to keep it behind the clubhouse doors.  The unfortunate part is, this isn't a first for this type of behavior. 

it is an annual event making one think of swallows and Capistrano.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

it is an annual event making one think of swallows and Capistrano.

Nice... that made my day. 

[Mr. Happy]

Exactly.  Did Biggio and Bagwell rip Roy for turning the tide of the World Series with his meltdown?

What Oswalt said was out of line. I wish that Berkman hadn't responded though. As Coach said, it's a team game.

[astrosfan76]

Further proof of how messed up things have gotten:  ESPN has an Insider article (which I haven't read) suggesting the Nationals may make a play for Oswalt.  I see their record and they should be even better with Storen and Strasburg joining the club, but the Nationals?  We've gotten to the point where the Nationals are wanting our players for a playoff run?  That's just wrong.

[Alkie]

Oswalt for Strasburg.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Further proof of how messed up things have gotten:  ESPN has an Insider article (which I haven't read) suggesting the Nationals may make a play for Oswalt.  I see their record and they should be even better with Storen and Strasburg joining the club, but the Nationals?  We've gotten to the point where the Nationals are wanting our players for a playoff run?  That's just wrong.

Hmm... I'd be game for a straight up Oswalt for Strasburg trade.  Why the hell not.  Even throw in Pence to make it Zimmerman and Strasburg for Pence and Oswalt.  Seems totally fair to me.  Anyone see a problem with this?

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Oswalt for Strasburg.

Dude, you are thinking entirely too small...

[Limey]

Dude, you are thinking entirely too small...

Oswalt and Lee for Strasburg.

[Lurch]

Oswalt and Lee for Strasburg.

Bravo

[Alkie]

Oswalt and Lee for Strasburg.

We'd be fools not to offer it. 

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Hmm... if Roy wants Atlanta, I think we have to throw in Pence (and maybe Bogusevic) for Heywood (that young kid in RF) and their two top pitching prospects.  Adding in Bogusevic is only if they have doubts about Pence.  I figure, an extra player and a picture of Pence's hustle face should seal the deal. 

Thoughts?  Suggestions?  Personally, I can't see how this is not a win-win deal for both sides.  Show me a team that doesn't appreciate hustle-face and I'll show you a team not interested in a championship. 

[hostros7]

Hmm... if Roy wants Atlanta, I think we have to throw in Pence (and maybe Bogusevic) for Heywood (that young kid in RF) and their two top pitching prospects.  Adding in Bogusevic is only if they have doubts about Pence.  I figure, an extra player and a picture of Pence's hustle face should seal the deal. 

Thoughts?  Suggestions?  Personally, I can't see how this is not a win-win deal for both sides.  Show me a team that doesn't appreciate hustle-face and I'll show you a team not interested in a championship. 

Oswalt AND Pence demands proven young, major league ready commodities.  Heywood and Hanson straight up for Pence and Oswalt.

[mrpink]

Oswalt AND Pence demands proven young, major league ready commodities.  Heywood and Hanson straight up for Pence and Oswalt.

Okay, now this is getting ridiculous.

[Navin R Johnson]

Chances of Atlanta trading Heywood are about as good as your chance of seeing Drayton and Berkman doing tequila shots at the BUS after a game.

[Lurch]

Chances of Atlanta trading Heywood are about as good as your chance of seeing Drayton and Berkman doing tequila shots at the BUS after a game.

I don't think you're playing correctly.

[MusicMan]

Chances of Atlanta trading Heywood are about as good as your chance of seeing Drayton and Berkman doing tequila shots each other at the BUS after a game.

FIFY

[Houston]

Oswalt and Lee for Strasburg.

Don't forget to throw Zimmerman and Lebron James into that deal. The Rockets can chip in with Yao.

[astrosfan76]

Don't forget to throw Zimmerman and Lebron James into that deal. The Rockets can chip in with Yao.

Forget Lebron.  They're going to throw in "Baseball's Lebron" as a PTBNL.

[Navin R Johnson]

Roy's buddy Jake Peavy chimes in.....

"We'll see what happens with him," said Peavy, who spoke to Oswalt as recently as Monday night. "It's pretty inevitable he's going to be moved off of a tough situation. They have some holes to fill and trading him will help that organization and be a better situation for him."

"It would be nice to play with him, no doubt about that," Peavy said. "I wish him the best. He has a lot left in the tank."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100518&content_id=10150136&notebook_id=10151786&vkey=notebook_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

[Andyzipp]

Roy's buddy Jake Peavy chimes in.....

"We'll see what happens with him," said Peavy, who spoke to Oswalt as recently as Monday night. "It's pretty inevitable he's going to be moved off of a tough situation. They have some holes to fill and trading him will help that organization and be a better situation for him."

"It would be nice to play with him, no doubt about that," Peavy said. "I wish him the best. He has a lot left in the tank."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100518&content_id=10150136&notebook_id=10151786&vkey=notebook_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

I didn't say it.  Jake Peavy said it. 

[Noe]

Roy's buddy Jake Peavy chimes in.....

"We'll see what happens with him," said Peavy, who spoke to Oswalt as recently as Monday night. "It's pretty inevitable he's going to be moved off of a tough situation. They have some holes to fill and trading him will help that organization and be a better situation for him."

"It would be nice to play with him, no doubt about that," Peavy said. "I wish him the best. He has a lot left in the tank."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100518&content_id=10150136&notebook_id=10151786&vkey=notebook_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Methinks Peavy knows quite a bit.  It's where Roy wants to go at this point but the Astros have to pretend not to be desperate.  Ahum, that was hard to type without laughing.

[juliogotay]

Methinks Peavy knows quite a bit.  It's where Roy wants to go at this point but the Astros have to pretend not to be desperate.  Ahum, that was hard to type without laughing.

I heard some scuttle today up here in NoTexas about Roy wanting to be a Ranger because of Maddux. Who knows

[Noe]

I heard some scuttle today up here in NoTexas about Roy wanting to be a Ranger because of Maddux. Who knows

Round Rock pitchers who were under the tutelage of Maddux started to not listen to him much.  It was Maddux who convinced Oswalt to pitch to contact instead of trying to strike everybody out.  But Roy didn't really spend much time in AA under Maddux, he went to the Olympics for a good long while that season and then the next year spent one month in AAA New Orleans (under Hickey) before going to the bigs under Hooton.  Hooton preached "first pitch strikes" and "be aggressive on 0-2 counts", very much a Larry Dierker mentality.  Hickey came up to the bigs and was really the guy who spent the most time with Oswalt, basically preaching the IPs, getting late into innings, throwing more fastballs, challenge hitters until they can prove they can hit your pitch.  Very much a mirror of Garner.

So back to Maddux: He has this habit of touching pitchers a little too much.  It's innocent, but after a while, many of the young pitchers in AA didn't really appreciate it.  Maddux was given more credit for his work with guys like Saarloos, Hernandez, Redding, Lidge and several others.  I really don't think Oswalt had much to do with Maddux other than give him credit for being the first to preach "pitch to contact" to him.

[BatGirl]

So back to Maddux: He has this habit of touching pitchers a little too much.  It's innocent, but after a while, many of the young pitchers in AA didn't really appreciate it.  Maddux was given more credit for his work with guys like Saarloos, Hernandez, Redding, Lidge and several others.  I really don't think Oswalt had much to do with Maddux other than give him credit for being the first to preach "pitch to contact" to him.

wait
oswalt is a homophobe?

[Andyzipp]

wait
oswalt is a homophobe?

Probably, but that has nothing to do with this.

[moriartp]

Latest:

But GM Ed Wade tells Rumblings that McLane has never told the baseball operation that any kind of trade is off limits if it can make the Astros better.

"We want to win with the group we have now," Wade said. "But if, at some point, it looks like that's not possible, we have to pay attention to any opportunity that makes us better. And if that means we have to look in a different direction, so be it."

Asked whether McLane understands that, Wade replied: "Yes."

...

If the Astros ever were to trade both of them, it would mean the exit of the last links to the Killer B's glory years and the end of an era in Houston. And although that might be tough for some Houstonians to accept (including, we'd guess, McLane), Wade says:

"I'm not sure it's my position to necessarily get bogged down in eras. I always say the glory years of the Astros coincided with Craig Biggio hitting the home run off Billy Wagner in 2005 (that launched the Astros to the wild card and, eventually, the World Series). But all that home run did for me was hasten my departure [as the GM] in Philadelphia. So it's safe to say I have a slightly different perspective than other people here."

[OregonStrosFan]

"I'm not sure it's my position to necessarily get bogged down in eras. I always say the glory years of the Astros coincided with Craig Biggio hitting the home run off Billy Wagner in 2005 (that launched the Astros to the wild card and, eventually, the World Series). But all that home run did for me was hasten my departure [as the GM] in Philadelphia. So it's safe to say I have a slightly different perspective than other people here."

Hmmm. Interesting.

[Matt]

Hmmm. Interesting.

I can't believe you would suggest Ed Wade is working with the Illuminati in a revenge scheme to bring the Astros AND Craig Biggio down by gaining the trust of the organization he so despises with Sasquatch as his ultimate tool of destruction.

[OregonStrosFan]

I can't believe you would suggest Ed Wade is working with the Illuminati in a revenge scheme to bring the Astros AND Craig Biggio down by gaining the trust of the organization he so despises with Sasquatch as his ultimate tool of destruction.

Nah, just never really thought of Biggio's HR in that light before.

As an aside though, your an idiot if you think I was referring to some kind of Illuminati conspiracy.  Everyone knows Wade is a Trilateralist...

[Andyzipp]

Nah, just never really thought of Biggio's HR in that light before.

As an aside though, your an idiot if you think I was referring to some kind of Illuminati conspiracy.  Everyone knows Wade is a Trilateralist...

Only because his application for membership to the Pentaverate was denied.

[HudsonHawk]

Only because his application for membership to the Pentaverate was denied.

He's also a member of the Build-A-Bear Group.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

a Trilateralist...

Is that what you get when cross a lesbian and a bisexual?  NTTAWWT....

[Froback]

Is that what you get when cross a lesbian and a bisexual?  NTTAWWT....

Actually I was thinking it was a procrastinator with ADHD, but then it would probably be a Trylateralist.

[Noe]

Latest:

But GM Ed Wade tells Rumblings that McLane has never told the baseball operation that any kind of trade is off limits if it can make the Astros better.

"We want to win with the group we have now," Wade said. "But if, at some point, it looks like that's not possible, we have to pay attention to any opportunity that makes us better. And if that means we have to look in a different direction, so be it."

Asked whether McLane understands that, Wade replied: "Yes."

...

If the Astros ever were to trade both of them, it would mean the exit of the last links to the Killer B's glory years and the end of an era in Houston. And although that might be tough for some Houstonians to accept (including, we'd guess, McLane), Wade says:

"I'm not sure it's my position to necessarily get bogged down in eras. I always say the glory years of the Astros coincided with Craig Biggio hitting the home run off Billy Wagner in 2005 (that launched the Astros to the wild card and, eventually, the World Series). But all that home run did for me was hasten my departure [as the GM] in Philadelphia. So it's safe to say I have a slightly different perspective than other people here."

Ed wade is telling everyone in the MLB who will listen that it's time to talk Oswalt and possibly Berkman in trade talks this season.  He's doing his job to set the market.

[Craig]

I'm looking everywhere for the video of Biggio's homer off GasCan in 2005, but I can't find it anywhere. It used to be buried on the Astros' site, then it moved to an MLB site, and now I can't find it anywhere.

[Noe]

I'm looking everywhere for the video of Biggio's homer off GasCan in 2005, but I can't find it anywhere. It used to be buried on the Astros' site, then it moved to an MLB site, and now I can't find it anywhere.

Made Harry Kalas cry! (Not a video link, just an interview/article)

[Craig]

Made Harry Kalas cry! (Not a video link, just an interview/article)

That makes it even more awesome! It's my favorite Craig Biggio homer and now I can't even find the video.

[Noe]

That makes it even more awesome! It's my favorite Craig Biggio homer and now I can't even find the video.

I believe AstrosDaily has an audio of the homerun and not the video.  "OH MY!" is Jimmy D's reaction.  If, however, you want to see a sweet Houston Astros tribute to Craig Biggio on his 3K hit, here is a link for you.

[homer]

I'm looking everywhere for the video of Biggio's homer off GasCan in 2005, but I can't find it anywhere. It used to be buried on the Astros' site, then it moved to an MLB site, and now I can't find it anywhere.

http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=63110.msg63883#msg63883

[Craig]

Awesome, thanks guys! Two new bookmarks.

[astrosfan76]

And it's official, maybe:

The July 31 trading deadline is more than two months away, but one of baseball's best pitchers has asked to be put on the market.

Houston Astros ace Roy Oswalt, a three-time National League All-Star, has asked owner Drayton McLane Jr. to be traded, a source said Friday.

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/05/oswalt-requests-trade-from-houston.html

[Andyzipp]

And it's official, maybe:

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/05/oswalt-requests-trade-from-houston.html

And that source's name rhymes with Steak Leavy.

[Anit]

Dick's twitter says Wade has confirmed it, although nothing from Mctaggart or Alyson yet.

Astros GM Ed Wade has just confirmed that Roy Oswalt has asked to be traded. #hounews     2 minutes ago  via UberTwitter 

[matadorph]

That's one way to get a bidding war started.

Seeing Roy pitch in another jersey will be tough but it's time to turn the page.

[OregonStrosFan]

That's one way to get a bidding war started.

Seeing Roy pitch in another jersey will be tough but it's time to turn the page.

So long as it is not in a Jake, scrub, Red Sox or Yankee uni, I'll ultimately get over it...

[OregonStrosFan]

Story from Fallas: LINK

[Noe]

Wow, just in time for the Rays coming into town too.  Coin-ci-dinky?  I think not! 

Thanks Gerry.

[matadorph]

His agent called Drayton last night after Ubaldo Jimenez dominated his teammates. Could the Rukkakes be on his short list?

[jbm]

Asking to be traded, rather than just willing to be traded?  If true, fuck him.

[JimR]

Fuck you, Roy. It has been all about you for a long time.

[OregonStrosFan]

Asking to be traded, rather than just willing to be traded?  If true, fuck him.

Per the Fallas link:

Oswalt’s agent, Bob Garber, contacted Astros owner Drayton McLane on Thursday and communicated the pitcher’s request, Wade said.

"The request was made, and it really doesn't change anything on our end," Wade said. "We want to win with the guys who are here.

***

Asked if Oswalt had demanded a trade, Wade said: "I'm going to put my tongue in my cheek and say that Roy's contract includes a no-trade clause, not a trade-me clause. There is no rule that allows a player in his contract status to demand a trade. Demand, request... it's all the same and duly noted."

He declined to discuss the issue further.

[Noe]

His agent called Drayton last night after Ubaldo Jimenez dominated his teammates. Could the Rukkakes be on his short list?

Funny thing, this list of his.  He's pretty much let folks know for two years that he would love to pitch in St. Louis or Atlanta (close to home).  Beyond that, he had no real opinion.  Since that first instance of mentioning St. Louie and Atlanta, he's developed a friendship with Peavey who is now in Chicago, toiling for the WhiteSox.  Now Oswalt says he wants to pitch for a legitimate contender.  If you ask me, the list then becomes this:

1. Tampa Bay
2. New York Yankees
3. Philadelphia
4. St. Louis
5. Minnesota Twins

Outside of those clubs, I don't really see any locks.  It could be a Wild Card team like the Rockies that draws interest, but I don't really know if Oswalt likes Coors Field and what that launch pad will do for his game.  Plus, in terms of true defense, there are times that team has lapses that make you wonder just how much they'll stay in the hunt.  Other teams in a similar position would be the LA Dodgers and San Francisco.  I know the Jints are playing well right now and they have the pitching that will make sure slumps are not an extended thing, but that lineup is not what I'd call a World Series caliber team like the ones mentioned above.  Same goes for most teams in the AL West, who take turns beating each other up and then slinking out of the playoffs early.

I don't really know what Ed Wade will do, if anything, but playing those five clubs above against each other would be nice!  Imagine the Yankees hearing that Gerry Hunsicker, a one-time Astros GM, is calling his good friend Tal Smith and also good friend Ed Wade asking about Oswalt.  What do you think the Yanks will do?  Same scenario would be with St. Louis and Philadelphia.  Minnesota would be an interesting trading partner now that they can afford to pay players with the new crib.  Steinbrenner's brain would explode if he thought the Twinkies would get a quailty pitcher like Oswalt.

This could get interesting to say the least.

[OregonStrosFan]

Detroit and Minnesota are contenders. MIN could probably afford him with the new stadium revenue.  Rangers have the prospects to do a deal, but do you really think McLane would willingly let Roy go there?  Despite being behind in the standings, I'd have to think Roy would agree to a trade to pitch with his boy on the south side.  Who knows, the desire to get the hell out of town might lower his standards even more...

[hostros7]

Detroit and Minnesota are contenders. MIN could probably afford him with the new stadium revenue.  Rangers have the prospects to do a deal, but do you really think McLane would willingly let Roy go there?  Despite being behind in the standings, I'd have to think Roy would agree to a trade to pitch with his boy on the south side.  Who knows, the desire to get the hell out of town might lower his standards even more...

honestly, I know this year is bad, but I'm more surprised this didn't happen last year.  Oswalt (and berkman) couldn't have thought this franchise was going anywhere in the near term, and, with the apparent bad blood with coop in the clubhouse, just surprising roy didn't  start bitching last year.  Hope Lance handles the situation with more class and handles it in house, if it comes to that.

[Noe]

Detroit and Minnesota are contenders. MIN could probably afford him with the new stadium revenue.  Rangers have the prospects to do a deal, but do you really think McLane would willingly let Roy go there?  Despite being behind in the standings, I'd have to think Roy would agree to a trade to pitch with his boy on the south side.  Who knows, the desire to get the hell out of town might lower his standards even more...

If wind gets out that the Rangers are the main player, all the other contenders will not care and you won't have a market.  As such, why would the Rangers offer anything of value?  Think supply and demand.

[OregonStrosFan]

David Pinto had an interesting comment on Twitter: "Astros could say, 'We're not going to trade you unless you waive first.' That way, they can send him anywhere."

Not sure how practical that would be (and doubt seriously Roy would agree).  Am curious though, if Wade said something along the lines of "if you want a trade that badly Roy, agree to change the no-trade clause to a limited no-trade and I'll see what I can do".  (Could this / how would this work HH?).

Whatever the case, I have to think the fact Roy requested that the Astros trade him (as opposed to the Astros asking Roy if he would be willing to be traded) is a good thing for the team.  I'd imagine that his desire to get the hell out would make him willing to 'broaden his trade horizons' a bit... [/wildassspeculation][/forthemoment]

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Given how he initiated the trade request, fuck him.  Waive the no-trade or shut the ever livin' fuck up.  I am officially sick of Roy's shit.  Shut up and pitch, boy.  You are not entitled to jack, other than your salary and your no-trade clause. 

oh, and pardon the language.... 

[Noe]

David Pinto had an interesting comment on Twitter: "Astros could say, 'We're not going to trade you unless you waive first.' That way, they can send him anywhere."

Not sure how practical that would be (and doubt seriously Roy would agree).  Am curious though, if Wade said something along the lines of "if you want a trade that badly Roy, agree to change the no-trade clause to a limited no-trade and I'll see what I can do".  (Could this / how would this work HH?).

Whatever the case, I have to think the fact Roy requested that the Astros trade him (as opposed to the Astros asking Roy if he would be willing to be traded) is a good thing for the team.  I'd imagine that his desire to get the hell out would make him willing to 'broaden his trade horizons' a bit... [/wildassspeculation][/forthemoment]

I'm not sure the MLBPA will allow Roy to waive his no-trade.  Really, if they work together, even with a limited number of teams on Roy's list (and it is about a contender and not a fringe contender who may or may not make the playoffs), they can work a sweet market for Oswalt's services.  A stacked team like St. Louis with pitching becomes a World Series favorite almost overnight.  That will make all other World Series contenders stand up and notice and frankly decide they need to block that trade.  At that point, it is what you have to offer gentlemen, give it your best shot.

I can't see any other way to 1) give Roy what he wants (and yes, he drives this as much as anyone else, so you have to partner with him) and 2) get something really good in return.  I think the Randy Johnson deal is very similar to what is happening now (except the no-trade clause stuff).  Unit was coveted by Cleveland and the Yankees were seriously worried about RJ going there.  So they moved to block a Cleveland trade by offering more which made Cleveland offer more and then things kind of settled down while Seattle made up their mind.  In steps Houston and makes a better offer while Cleveland and New York decide they've made their best offer.

That year, the word was the Yankees were now worried that the Houston Astros became the favorite to win the World Series with that one move.  Unit, Reynolds, Lima, Hampton and Bergman.  Wagner as closer and the stacked lineup of Biggio, Bell, Bagwell, Everett, Alou was much to fear.  I really suspect that Roy is going to a great team, not just any team.  And Wade will work a market for a good return.

[chuck]

Fuck you, Roy. It has been all about you for a long time.

So you're telling me that if you were in Roy's position you would not have your agent underscore your willingness to accept a trade? You, one of the premier pitchers in the game, would prefer to remain with a team that will be lucky to win 70 games? You'd be happy to be completely out of the race by June 1 and end up 5-16 with a sub-3.0 ERA? Really?

[Lurch]

I'm not sure the MLBPA will allow Roy to waive his no-trade.  

I don't see why not.  He simply makes his list of acceptable teams 31 deep.  No reason for MLBPA to get involved.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

So you're telling me that if you were in Roy's position you would not have your agent underscore your willingness to accept a trade? You, one of the premier pitchers in the game, would prefer to remain with a team that will be lucky to win 70 games? You'd be happy to be completely out of the race by June 1 and end up 5-16 with a sub-3.0 ERA? Really?

two words: Team and Game. 

Did anyone make a crack about him losing last nights game?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the unearned run was based on HIS error.  The next two were earned.  Why couldn't he shut out the Rockies?  Come on Roy, step up and deliver. 

Gutless... that's what I think of him now. 

[Reuben]

Aww, he loses his 6th game because the team gets shut out by a guy with an 8-1 record and 0.99 ERA. Poor guy, no wonder he calls in the next day asking to be traded.

Sorry, Chuck. Roy is being a selfish whiner. Although one thing I'm unclear about is who told the press. If Oswalt, then he's being extremely whiny. If it was McLane, or someone in the Astros FO, then it seems they want Roy to take just a bit of an image hit locally, so there will be less of an uproar when he's traded. Hmmmm.

[roadrunner]

Wow, just when you think things couldn't get worse.

I mean, yeah I'm kind of pissed at Roy for being selfish, but we're going to lose the best player (by far) on this already awful team.

[BUWebguy]

Wow, just when you think things couldn't get worse.

I mean, yeah I'm kind of pissed at Roy for being selfish, but we're going to lose the best player (by far) on this already awful team.

Who was it that was told by his team's owner back in the day, "We finished last with you; we can finish last without you"?

[JaneDoe]

Anybody else see Drayton's response? He worked in a little stab: "Remember that free bulldozer awhile back?"

[Navin R Johnson]

Why did this need to be made public?  Couldn't Roy or his agent simply gone to Wade and told him this instead of leaking it to the media?   What point does making it public serve?

[chuck]

two words: Team and Game. 

Did anyone make a crack about him losing last nights game?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the unearned run was based on HIS error.  The next two were earned.  Why couldn't he shut out the Rockies?  Come on Roy, step up and deliver. 

Gutless... that's what I think of him now. 

I'll ask you what I asked Jim. If you were Roy's would you have your agent underscore your willingness to be traded or not? Would you make clear your willingness to be traded to a contender or would you prefer to ride out your contract (and, possibly, your career) on a hapless team and with a clueless franchise?

[outlookdude]

So you're telling me that if you were in Roy's position you would not have your agent underscore your willingness to accept a trade? You, one of the premier pitchers in the game, would prefer to remain with a team that will be lucky to win 70 games? You'd be happy to be completely out of the race by June 1 and end up 5-16 with a sub-3.0 ERA? Really?

I usually, (for good reason), keep my mouth shut around here. But, this type situation always rubs me raw.

There is a difference between having a willingness to accept a trade and requesting a trade. I don’t expect the worst players in the league to be happy playing for a losing team, much less prefer to stay there. I have no problem with what he wants. But, I want a million dollars. That does not mean I am entitled.

Trading Roy may be best for the Astros. In my opinion that isn’t the issue either.

Roy has had a lot of good years in Houston. It is easy to be the good, likable guy when things go well. No problem being a good teammate then. It’s harder when things don’t go well. Roy fails this test.

Even when they want to be elsewhere a good teammate will still show respect for their peers, their fans, and the organization.

I am willing to accept a trade implies doing something that is for the good of team. I want a trade implies I don’t care if it helps this team or not. I rarely have any patience for athletes who attempt that type power play.

Less my opinion and more of a question – doesn’t public knowledge that he wants a trade lower his trade value?

And what would be a reasonable return in trade? I assume we would be looking for a top notch prospect in the middle infield and a pitcher.

[Navin R Johnson]

I'll ask you what I asked Jim. If you were Roy's would you have your agent underscore your willingness to be traded or not? Would you make clear your willingness to be traded to a contender or would you prefer to ride out your contract (and, possibly, your career) on a hapless team and with a clueless franchise?

The clueless franchise that has paid him near 100 million dollars and that has been to the World Series and multiple playoffs while Roy was here?   

I can understand him wanting to move on, honestly I hope he does, I am ready to rebuild.   But why be an ass about it?   

[JaneDoe]

I don't see why not.  He simply makes his list of acceptable teams 31 deep.  No reason for MLBPA to get involved.

Jus' don't tho me in that briar patch!

[austro]

Less my opinion and more of a question – doesn’t public knowledge that he wants a trade lower his trade value?

In this case, I don't think so. In fact, it might increase his trade value. We're talking about a solid pitcher, which is a commodity that is always in demand. By letting the entire market know that he's available, I think you can set off a bidding war.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I'll ask you what I asked Jim. If you were Roy's would you have your agent underscore your willingness to be traded or not? Would you make clear your willingness to be traded to a contender or would you prefer to ride out your contract (and, possibly, your career) on a hapless team and with a clueless franchise?

Willingness is not what we're discussing here.  He requested a trade.  His willingness was made public a couple weeks back.  That's a non-story.  Telling his best bud he asked for a trade, having his agent go public, making it about him not being on a winning team is not the same as willing to accept a trade, for a mutually beneficial outcome for the team that drafted, developed, and paid him for the past 10 yrs.  What he did was ask to be traded (and we're all assuming he didn't DEMAND a trade) because he's not happy about not getting a win.  WFW...  

Trade him.  I will be tuning out of Oswalt's games, this point forward.  I'd rather watch BRAVO than watch Oswalt pitch.

[OregonStrosFan]

So you're telling me that if you were in Roy's position you would not have your agent underscore your willingness to accept a trade? You, one of the premier pitchers in the game, would prefer to remain with a team that will be lucky to win 70 games? You'd be happy to be completely out of the race by June 1 and end up 5-16 with a sub-3.0 ERA? Really?

I don't have a particular problem with him desiring to be traded to a team contending.  He's in the last 2 years of his contract, doesn't necessarily want to pitch for a long time after that, getting older, and having a good season.  Fine.  He can underscore that he'd be willing to be traded, or heck can even ask ("Hey Drayton, I'm only going to pitch through next year and really want a ring. The org has meant alot to me, and would not be asking this if we stood a chance. Yada, yada, yada).  

My problem with Roy is, like as Outlookdude says, "Even when they want to be elsewhere a good teammate will still show respect for their peers, their fans, and the organization." Roy has been whining, publicly, about the team and acting like a prima dona for a while.  Now, the scoop on the trade request come from a Chicago reporter? I don't believe for a second that Roy did not orchestrate that through his BFF Jake...

For the whining, and trying to put public pressure on Drayton and Wade, I do have no problem telling him not to let the door hit him in the ass on his way out.  [I really like 'Roy', and will miss having him a part of the franchise.  This prima dona dude wearing his jersey this year not so much...]

That said, I do wonder if the fact that this is public may actually benefit the Astros in their trade talks.  Wouldn't surprise me if it did.

[ferret]

Oswalt and Lee for Strasburg.

Then they could atleast act like they were trying to win.  Last year all they got were t-shirts.

[Noe]

I don't have a problem with this at all.  Joe Niekro got traded.  Jose Cruz got traded.  Larry Dierker got traded.  It's a business.  As per the "going public" stuff, well... ain't nuttin new with Roy.  He's thrown other players under the bus before, he is a bit selfish to say the least.  Is this another example?  A little, but it's what you get with Roy... the good and the bad.

But you make lemonade out of lemons and this is really a great opportunity for Wade and the Astros.  It accelerates the need to let kids play, start to bridge to those prospects in High A ball and AA.  It's about time to stop fooling everyone in Houston that you don't rebuild, you reload.  If anything, at least Roy pretty much is saying "Go ahead, do the right thing and rebuild!".  He is not part of a rebuilding effort.

BTW - the more I think about it, I like the idea of seeing what you can get from Minnesota.  I'm sure the lack of Joe Nathan has them wondering if they'll need a closer down the road.  A package of Roy and Lyon might grab you some sweet prospects if that's the case.  Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies.  Better be a great deal though.  A very great deal!

[austro]

I don't have a problem with this at all.  Joe Niekro got traded.  Jose Cruz got traded.  Larry Dierker got traded.  It's a business.  As per the "going public" stuff, well... ain't nuttin new with Roy.  He's thrown other players under the bus before, he is a bit selfish to say the least.  Is this another example?  A little, but it's what you get with Roy... the good and the bad.

But you make lemonade out of lemons and this is really a great opportunity for Wade and the Astros.  It accelerates the need to let kids play, start to bridge to those prospects in High A ball and AA.  It's about time to stop fooling everyone in Houston that you don't rebuild, you reload.  If anything, at least Roy pretty much is saying "Go ahead, do the right thing and rebuild!".  He is not part of a rebuilding effort.

BTW - the more I think about it, I like the idea of seeing what you can get from Minnesota.  I'm sure the lack of Joe Nathan has them wondering if they'll need a closer down the road.  A package of Roy and Lyon might grab you some sweet prospects if that's the case.  Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies.  Better be a great deal though.  A very great deal!

The concern I have about Minnesota is that they understand better than anyone the need to maintain a pipeline from the minors. I'm not convinced they'll give up much just to get these guys for a relatively short payoff. Teams like the Yankmees and BoSox who know that they can buy their way out of temporary shortages might be more willing to part with meaningful prospects.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I don't have a problem with this at all.  Joe Niekro got traded.  Jose Cruz got traded.  Larry Dierker got traded.  It's a business.  As per the "going public" stuff, well... ain't nuttin new with Roy.  He's thrown other players under the bus before, he is a bit selfish to say the least.  Is this another example?  A little, but it's what you get with Roy... the good and the bad.

But you make lemonade out of lemons and this is really a great opportunity for Wade and the Astros.  It accelerates the need to let kids play, start to bridge to those prospects in High A ball and AA.  It's about time to stop fooling everyone in Houston that you don't rebuild, you reload.  If anything, at least Roy pretty much is saying "Go ahead, do the right thing and rebuild!".  He is not part of a rebuilding effort.

BTW - the more I think about it, I like the idea of seeing what you can get from Minnesota.  I'm sure the lack of Joe Nathan has them wondering if they'll need a closer down the road.  A package of Roy and Lyon might grab you some sweet prospects if that's the case.  Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies.  Better be a great deal though.  A very great deal!

I was never opposed to a trade, if it was a mutually beneficial situation.  Oswalt's antics say one thing, ME.  Good luck wherever you land Roy.  But I may start referring to him as the Mississippi Whore or the Whore from Weir....  if anyone has something better, let me know.  

And given Wade's comments when addressing the topic, he'll keep him rather than get hosed.  Screw you too, Roy.  

[Navin R Johnson]

But I may start referring to him as the Mississippi Whore or the Whore from Weir....  if anyone has something better, let me know. 

Roy Favre

[chuck]

willing to accept a trade, for a mutually beneficial outcome for the team that drafted, developed, and paid him for the past 10 yrs.

He's made this plain before, his willingness to depart the only franchise he's ever known in order to better its future chances. The guy who signs the checks is the only person in the country who follows major league baseball who has not seen the writing on the wall.

So I'll take that as a no, you'd be perfectly happy to pitch at a 2.50 clip (ERA) and a .250 record so as not to be seen as a whiner. Got it. By any chance are you looking for a job? If so go ahead and send your resume to Snapple and we'll have a quick look.

[Navin R Johnson]

He's made this plain before, his willingness to depart the only franchise he's ever known in order to better its future chances.

So the only reason he wants to leave is to better the Astros?  Interesting.

[jbm]

"trade me" is a lot more than "willingness"

[austro]

So the only reason he wants to leave is to better the Astros?  Interesting.

It's possible that he realizes that this is the only way to make McLane open his eyes to reality.

[chuck]

You guys need to get the fuck over the fact that the team's best player is making plain to an already aware public that the Houston Astros are a fucking joke of a major league franchise. I mean, seriously.

Over-emotional bitches, all of you. Next time you do something in the stock market please let me know.

[Noe]

It's possible that he realizes that this is the only way to make McLane open his eyes to reality.

The reverse Billy Wagner?  I love it!

[S.P. Rodriguez]

By any chance are you looking for a job? If so go ahead and send your resume to Snapple and we'll have a quick look.

Are you the guy who picks the good stuff?

[Ebby Calvin]

You guys need to get the fuck over the fact that the team's best player is making plain to an already aware public that the Houston Astros are a fucking joke of a major league franchise. I mean, seriously.

I agree with this.  Trade him, get the best value you can, move on.  This can be a win-win.

[Noe]

I agree with this.  Trade him, get the best value you can, move on.  This can be a win-win.

Same here.

[austro]

I agree with this.  Trade him, get the best value you can, move on.  This can be a win-win.

Absolutely. He's checking out, let's get the best return we can. I definitely think that he can inspire a nice bidding war.

[jbm]

You guys need to get the fuck over the fact that the team's best player is making plain to an already aware public that the Houston Astros are a fucking joke of a major league franchise. I mean, seriously.

Over-emotional bitches, all of you. Next time you do something in the stock market please let me know.

"we suck" is not a justification for "I'm fuckin outta here."

to his teamates, it translate to "y'all suck, I'm special, see ya."  

btw, investing is helped by recognizing losers with little character

[OregonStrosFan]

Same here.

(eta re: 'moving on') Nah, I'll give myself the rest of the season to be pissy about his recent antics before I go back to remembering fondly of his time with the Good Guys.  He's been a joy to watch through his career with the Astros (just not so much to listen to this season...).

[OregonStrosFan]

"we suck" is not a justification for "I'm fuckin outta here."

to his teamates, it translate to "y'all suck, I'm special, see ya."

McTaggart's blog: Oswalt's teammates react to trade request

Some of Roy Oswalt's teammates, including center fielder Michael Bourn, chose not comment on the news the pitcher has asked owner Drayton McLane to trade him...

Berkman: "That's his deal," he said. "I really don't have anything to say."  [oxymoron alert?]

Blum: "I don't know how these things work because I've never been in position to ask for a trade," Blum said. "But I'm sure he's got a lot of reasons why he's saying what he's saying and asking for what Roy asked for. As of right now I'm an Astro and I want to be an Astro, so I'm going to play my heart out for the Astros.

"He has every right to do that. It's unfortunate. It's not something that we want to hear. But it's something that he feels he can do, and having been traded three times and not wanting to be traded, I know the grass isn't always greener on the other side. But if he feels it's his time to ask for a trade, it's his time."

Blum was asked if he was disappointed.

"I like Roy," he said. "Roy's a good dude. We've played extremely well together on the field. I have no ill wills or whatever towards him. I know he wants to win a championship, and he feels it' not going to here, that's probably best that he asks for a trade."

[S.P. Rodriguez]

You guys need to get the fuck over the fact that the team's best player is making plain to an already aware public that the Houston Astros are a fucking joke of a major league franchise. I mean, seriously.

Over-emotional bitches, all of you. Next time you do something in the stock market please let me know.

I need to go back and read what I wrote.  I don't recall saying not to trade Oswalt.  If I did, let me make clear now, trade him.  But only if it benefits the Astros.  I don't give a damn about Oswalt's personal desire to play for a contender.  McLane doesn't owe him jack.  From reading Wade's comments, I think that's exactly what the Astros will do.  I stand by the statement that I won't be watching any starts by Oswalt.  He's not the only me-first prima donna in sports.  He's hardly original in that regard.  I'm just sick and tired of watching the same tired routine. 

[juliogotay]

I don't have a problem with this at all.  Joe Niekro got traded.  Jose Cruz got traded.  Larry Dierker got traded.  It's a business.  As per the "going public" stuff, well... ain't nuttin new with Roy.  He's thrown other players under the bus before, he is a bit selfish to say the least.  Is this another example?  A little, but it's what you get with Roy... the good and the bad.

But you make lemonade out of lemons and this is really a great opportunity for Wade and the Astros.  It accelerates the need to let kids play, start to bridge to those prospects in High A ball and AA.  It's about time to stop fooling everyone in Houston that you don't rebuild, you reload.  If anything, at least Roy pretty much is saying "Go ahead, do the right thing and rebuild!".  He is not part of a rebuilding effort.

BTW - the more I think about it, I like the idea of seeing what you can get from Minnesota.  I'm sure the lack of Joe Nathan has them wondering if they'll need a closer down the road.  A package of Roy and Lyon might grab you some sweet prospects if that's the case.  Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies.  Better be a great deal though.  A very great deal!


 

Trade Lindstrom? You gotta be fucking kidding me.

[Reuben]

Absolutely. He's checking out, let's get the best return we can. I definitely think that he can inspire a nice bidding war.

I agree that it's a good opportunity, and the best move for the Astros right now. Let's hope it happens fairly quickly, rather than getting drawn out for weeks. His contract, while very much in line with what guys of his caliber are making these days, is not small either, so I'm curious to see who ends up entering this sweepstakes and what they ultimately give up.

[moriartp]

I agree that it's a good opportunity, and the best move for the Astros right now. Let's hope it happens fairly quickly, rather than getting drawn out for weeks. His contract, while very much in line with what guys of his caliber are making these days, is not small either, so I'm curious to see who ends up entering this sweepstakes and what they ultimately give up.

Can't deal him too hastily. I'm fine with dragging it out for another month if that's what Wade decides will lead to the best return. Granted it'll be weird as hell seeing him on the mound in an Astros uni until he goes, but all parties will just have to suck it up until the matter is resolved.

[MusicMan]

I agree that it's a good opportunity, and the best move for the Astros right now. Let's hope it happens fairly quickly, rather than getting drawn out for weeks. His contract, while very much in line with what guys of his caliber are making these days, is not small either, so I'm curious to see who ends up entering this sweepstakes and what they ultimately give up.

Cliff Lee went in the offseason, 1 year remaining, for 3 minor leaguers, all highly regarded.
Roy Halladay went in the offseason, and then renegotiated, for 3 of the Phillies' top 5 minor leaguers.
Jake Peavy went midseason for 4 players, 3 of them high-level pitchers.
and the last time Wade dealt an ace:
Schilling went for Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Travis Lee, and Vicente Padilla (yikes!)

[Noe]

Trade Lindstrom? You gotta be fucking kidding me.

I knew you'd come a-running.  Pavlovian much?

[Noe]

Cliff Lee went in the offseason, 1 year remaining, for 3 minor leaguers, all highly regarded.
Roy Halladay went in the offseason, and then renegotiated, for 3 of the Phillies' top 5 minor leaguers.
Jake Peavy went midseason for 4 players, 3 of them high-level pitchers.
and the last time Wade dealt an ace:
Schilling went for Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Travis Lee, and Vicente Padilla (yikes!)

Let's hope Wade gets calls that are serious from a contender willing to add a sometime ACE to a rock solid rotation (St. Louie or Philly, doesn't matter, same with New York or Tampa).  That will make the market for Oswalt and it will be about picking the sweepstakes winner rather than just "accepting" the return because your hands are tied.

They're not.

[juliogotay]

I knew you'd come a-running.  Pavlovian much?

Nope. Just checking out strange odors.

[VirtualBob]

Nope. Just checking bringing out strange odors.

FIFY

[chuck]

So the only reason he wants to leave is to better the Astros?  Interesting.

No, but unlike other current players Roy is willing to leave. Would he like to see the franchise get a nice return? I'm sure he would. Is that his primary motivation? I'm sure it's not. He wants to go to a team that is serious about winning rather than spend his last two years on a team that has no real intention of winning. You want to vilify him for that. I have no idea why.

At the same time you clowns want to piss on Carlos for NOT allowing a trade. That fat motherfucker wants to stay in Houston! How dare him!

I mean, seriously, you fuckers deserve Dick Justice.

[chuck]

I need to go back and read what I wrote.  I don't recall saying not to trade Oswalt.  If I did, let me make clear now, trade him.  But only if it benefits the Astros.  I don't give a damn about Oswalt's personal desire to play for a contender.  McLane doesn't owe him jack.  From reading Wade's comments, I think that's exactly what the Astros will do.  I stand by the statement that I won't be watching any starts by Oswalt.  He's not the only me-first prima donna in sports.  He's hardly original in that regard.  I'm just sick and tired of watching the same tired routine. 

What routine? Are you furious with Andre Johnson too?

[OregonStrosFan]

It's not the what that bother me so much, it's the how.  Let's get this clear Chuck. I've not a particular problem with Roy wanting to go. My problem (although I think it works to the Astros advantage ultimately) are with his leaking the story through Peavy (plausible culprit); throwing his teammates under the bus; whining; leaving after a game without talking to reporters (you didn't see Lidge ducking interviews did you), etc.  He has handled his discontent poorly this season, and the effect of this will have multiple implications.  Like I say, I'll allow myself some time to be pissy about the words and the actions for a while, but'll that'll pass soon enough.

[OregonStrosFan]

Speaking of Dick, he had a couple of interesting quotes from McLane: LINK

“Now we need to rebuild the organization,” he said. “Up until last year, we had teams we thought just needed one or two more players to make a big difference. That's why we would give up on minor league players to get a veteran we thought would move us forward. Now this is the new plan.”

Pinwheel's opening to the story may prove true yet as well:

Thank you, Roy Oswalt. Thank you for pushing Drayton McLane to a place he was having trouble going on his own.  This is where the reconstruction of the Astros should begin. Tear it down. Build it back. When they're whole again, we'll remember that the final chapter of Oswalt's legacy was important and timely.

There were a number of one and two line quotes as well, but it's hard to know what Drayton was actually telling Pinwheel as opposed to the story he was trying to build though.

But the money quote from McLane via the AP: LINK

“No. Roy is like I am,” he said. “Do I want to win? Do I want to be a champion? Absolutely.

[Navin R Johnson]

He wants to go to a team that is serious about winning rather than spend his last two years on a team that has no real intention of winning.

Didn't Roy make that clear when he came out and said he was willing to waive his no trade clause a couple weeks ago? 

You want to vilify him for that. I have no idea why.

Saying that "we" want to vilify him for wanting to go to a contender is a strawman.   Nobody is vilifying him for that.

At the same time you clowns want to piss on Carlos for NOT allowing a trade. That fat motherfucker wants to stay in Houston! How dare him!

Has Carlos leaked out to the media that he will NOT allow a trade? 

[MusicMan]

Has Carlos leaked out to the media that he will NOT allow a trade? 

His rejection of multiple trades has served that purpose.

[JimR]

Given how he initiated the trade request, fuck him.  Waive the no-trade or shut the ever livin' fuck up.  I am officially sick of Roy's shit.  Shut up and pitch, boy.  You are not entitled to jack, other than your salary and your no-trade clause. 

oh, and pardon the language.... 

well said. i have been there for quite some time.

[JimR]

No, but unlike other current players Roy is willing to leave. Would he like to see the franchise get a nice return? I'm sure he would. Is that his primary motivation? I'm sure it's not. He wants to go to a team that is serious about winning rather than spend his last two years on a team that has no real intention of winning. You want to vilify him for that. I have no idea why.

At the same time you clowns want to piss on Carlos for NOT allowing a trade. That fat motherfucker wants to stay in Houston! How dare him!

I mean, seriously, you fuckers deserve Dick Justice.

ah, chuck. ever the superior one looking down at all the common folk. you have only one peer.

[Limey]

well said. i have been there for quite some time.

There must be something about hard-throwing hicks being prone to verbal diarrhea.

[moriartp]

“Now we need to rebuild the organization,” he said. “Up until last year, we had teams we thought just needed one or two more players to make a big difference. That's why we would give up on minor league players to get a veteran we thought would move us forward. Now this is the new plan.”

Wow.

[geezerdonk]

Roy is having a good year and is still close to his prime. He should bring a load of talent in a trade. This is where Wade earns his salary.

[Fredia]

but how many teams will want roy knowing he wants to hang it up and go home after this contract

[BUWebguy]

His rejection of multiple trades has served that purpose.

The Astros have worked out deals and he shot them down? That's the first I've heard that.

[Noe]

Nope. Just checking out strange odors.

Here, smell this: I think the Astros should listen to trade talks for everyone, including Michael Bourn.  That is far from saying they should "trade" him.  You need to read a lot better than you do.

[Noe]

Wow.

For McLane to say that is quite a revelation and yes, that means he's not opposed to Wade making trades to bridge between the High A ball and AA players.  It is actually quite refreshing to think they're finally going to go this way.

[Noe]

but how many teams will want roy knowing he wants to hang it up and go home after this contract

All of them.

[TxRascal]

Here, smell this: I think the Astros should listen to trade talks for everyone, including Michael Bourn.  That is far from saying they should "trade" him.  You need to read a lot better than you do.

If that fellow is looking for strange odors maybe you ought to break out those argyle socks you used to keep around for the ankle biters...

Just sayin'...

[MusicMan]

well said. i have been there for quite some time.

While I too have tired of Roy's selfishness, I just can't get too upset about Roy requesting the trade.  The relationship between Roy and the Astros hasn't been working for quite some time, due to both Roy's selfishness and the team's inability to build a winner.  When the relationship has clearly gone bad, I'm not going to get worked up about Roy asking for the divorce before Drayton does.

[Noe]

If that fellow is looking for strange odors maybe you ought to break out those argyle socks you used to keep around for the ankle biters...

Just sayin'...

Well now, here is a blast from the past!  Good to see you back!

[JimR]

If that fellow is looking for strange odors maybe you ought to break out those argyle socks you used to keep around for the ankle biters...

Just sayin'...

welcome back, Grizzled Veteran.

[JimR]

While I too have tired of Roy's selfishness, I just can't get too upset about Roy requesting the trade.  The relationship between Roy and the Astros hasn't been working for quite some time, due to both Roy's selfishness and the team's inability to build a winner.  When the relationship has clearly gone bad, I'm not going to get worked up about Roy asking for the divorce before Drayton does.

he can do what he wants behind closed doors. that ain't his style. it is all Roy all the time. fuck him.

[outlookdude]

I can’t figure out what all the argument is really about. I haven’t seen anyone who posted here who thinks a trade with reasonable return would be bad. I haven’t seen anyone posting who has a problem with Roy wanting out, or wanting a shot at a championship.

But, even those defending Roy do not attempt to defend his actions.

The problem is with the selfish and disrespectful manner in which he has conducted himself, over a significant period of time and specifically very recently. This is not just fuck you, Roy. It’s fuck you too, Roy.

[juliogotay]

Here, smell this: I think the Astros should listen to trade talks for everyone, including Michael Bourn.  That is far from saying they should "trade" him.  You need to read a lot better than you do.

See if you recall writing these words regarding Lindstrom:

"Trading a commodity like Lindstrom is insane. Next."

"Forget the "closer" role, a young, solid power arm. yeh, trade him. That just smacks of dumb to me."

"Let me repeat, you don't trade a power arm that is basically under contract at this point".

"You don't even have to use "closer" to justify keeping Lindstrom around. Shrewd move in the offseason by Wade, it would be dumb to undo the good he did on that one."

"Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies. Better be a great deal though. A very great deal."

Now, I anticipate that you are going to use that word "listen" as a disclaimer to disqualify what you previously wrote so consider that I wrote at 1:05pm May 19th which was before your "let me repeat, you don't trade a power arm that is basically under contract at this point" and every other posted comment following that one:

    "He's not that young (Lindstrom), two years younger than Oswalt. The Astros have prospective closers in their system like Lo. I wouldn't give him away but I'd listen."

So, I'm not sure it is me that has reading comprehension problems.

I would have let your comment on Lindstrom last night go by totally if not for your smug, superior condescension throughout this whole discussion. You may be an administrator of this board, you may be a Pope, but to me you are just a fan with a megaphone. And that Pavlov's dog comment, nice diversion to change the subject. Totally senseless but very clever. And since I've wasted way too much time on this stupidity, Good day, sir.

 

[Noe]

Try reading it again to see who I advocate "trading":

BTW - the more I think about it, I like the idea of seeing what you can get from Minnesota.  I'm sure the lack of Joe Nathan has them wondering if they'll need a closer down the road.  A package of Roy and Lyon might grab you some sweet prospects if that's the case.  Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies.  Better be a great deal though.  A very great deal!

In case you can't, I was talking about Oswalt/Lyon. The part about Lindstrom was an attempt at humor aimed at me, something perhaps you don't get about me or even about this place.  You're taking this waaay too seriously.  Makes me wonder why you're so wound up about it actually.

It. Was. A. Joke.

[Mr. Happy]

So you're telling me that if you were in Roy's position you would not have your agent underscore your willingness to accept a trade? You, one of the premier pitchers in the game, would prefer to remain with a team that will be lucky to win 70 games? You'd be happy to be completely out of the race by June 1 and end up 5-16 with a sub-3.0 ERA? Really?

I don't think that was what Coach was saying. Of course it would be good to let the club know that Oswalt would *accept* a trade. But that's not what he did--he wants to be traded so that he can be on a winner. Coach is right--it has been all about Roy since, in my opinion, around 2006.

[OregonStrosFan]

Roy speaks.  (LINK: 7-minute twitter video posted by Footer)

[Rebel Jew]

Roy speaks.  (LINK: 7-minute twitter video posted by Footer)

when did journalists decide it was okay to use a flip camera for a professional interview like that one dude behind Roy?

[OregonStrosFan]

Fallas with quotes from the press conference.  LINK

He left one out though where Roy said he was surprised the org let out that his agent had made the request that he'd like to be traded.  Someone pointed out to him that the story was broken by the Chicago press, not the Houston press.

[Ron Brand]

when did journalists decide it was okay to use a flip camera for a professional interview like that one dude behind Roy?

When cable TV took over and the dumbing down accelerated beyond anyone's expectations.

[BUWebguy]

when did journalists decide it was okay to use a flip camera for a professional interview like that one dude behind Roy?

I haven't watched it yet, but there's a good chance it was a newspaper reporter who is now required to provide video for the website in addition to a written story.

[matadorph]

when did journalists decide it was okay to use a flip camera for a professional interview like that one dude behind Roy?

You mean that thingy McTaggart is holding? It looks a lot like the gadget Fuckhouse was sporting yesterday.

[Lurch]

when did journalists decide it was okay to use a flip camera for a professional interview like that one dude behind Roy?

When the lighting is good, the Flip HD is very nice

[matadorph]

"I still don't want people to think I'm leaving because we're not doing well right now. That's not the reason. The reason is I don't have much of a window left to play, and I want another shot at winning."

Uh, what?

[The Third Man]

I wouldn't get too emotional about Oswalt...the sense of entitlement is par for the course for most big time athletes. The same ego that puts them above the team is also what drives them to shrug off the pressure and come up big. He got the Astros to their only World Series. I will always be grateful for that. 

[Jose Cruz III]

I wouldn't get too emotional about Oswalt...the sense of entitlement is par for the course for most big time athletes. The same ego that puts them above the team is also what drives them to shrug off the pressure and come up big. He got the Astros to their only World Series. I will always be grateful for that. 

He got the Astros to the World Series? That's almost like saying he is the reason the Astros stink this year because he is 2-6.

[believin]

Berkman: "That's his deal," he said. "I really don't have anything to say."  [oxymoron alert?]

And here it is (also from McTaggart's blog)...

"The difference between a horrendous offense and a scrappy offense is your pitching staff. You win, 2-1, and it's, 'You broke up a double play' and 'You got a big hit from Hunter [Pence],' and that's why you won, 2-1. If you lose, 3-2, you didn't muster anything."

But Berkman admitted the offense needs to do its part, too.


Edited to fix the link

[Fynn]

He got the Astros to the World Series? That's almost like saying he is the reason the Astros stink this year because he is 2-6.

Time for Roy to ride into the sunset...the astros organization has more holes than fabric, so if Roy thinks personal goals are more important that team goals he should keep his mouth shut and have his agent work behind the scenes to get him traded to a team with a brighter immediate future.  We will hopefully get a handful of prospects in return.

[geezerdonk]

All of them.

But how many actually believe it.

[Rebel Jew]

And here it is (also from McTaggart's blog)...

"The difference between a horrendous offense and a scrappy offense is your pitching staff. You win, 2-1, and it's, 'You broke up a double play' and 'You got a big hit from Hunter [Pence],' and that's why you won, 2-1. If you lose, 3-2, you didn't muster anything."

But Berkman admitted the offense needs to do its part, too.


Edited to fix the link

if it's 2 runs against tim lincecum and you win 2-1 then, for sure, it should be "you had a productive out that helped us win!"  if you lose 3-2 against some so-so pitcher, and you go hitless with RISP, and you're hitting .233 on the season in the #3 spot, then you suck and you should share in the blame.

[Andyzipp]

How about everytime a player speaks negatively (directly or indirectly) through the press about his organization and especially his teammates, he's out of line.

[JimR]

How about everytime a player speaks negatively (directly or indirectly) through the press about his organization and especially his teammates, he's out of line.

absolutely true.

[believin]

How about everytime a player speaks negatively (directly or indirectly) through the press about his organization and especially his teammates, he's out of line.

Completely agree. 

[Mr. Happy]

How about everytime a player speaks negatively (directly or indirectly) through the press about his organization and especially his teammates, he's out of line.

Nailed it, AZ.

[JackAstro]

How about everytime a player speaks negatively (directly or indirectly) through the press about his organization and especially his teammates, he's out of line.

too complicated.

[Limey]

too complicated.

Not really.

[MusicMan]

BP reports that the Angels are going to make a big push for Oswalt, with other likely destinations including MIN, STL, and NYM.  TEX and LAD would both make sense but have f'ed-up ownership situations that will preclude deals.

[Andyzipp]

BP reports that the Angels are going to make a big push for Oswalt, with other likely destinations including MIN, STL, and NYM.  TEX and LAD would both make sense but have f'ed-up ownership situations that will preclude deals.

Douchey McWhinypants isn't going to agree to a deal to Anaheim, Minnesota or the Mess.  Or the Rangers for that matter.

[MusicMan]

Douchey McWhinypants isn't going to agree to a deal to Anaheim, Minnesota or the Mess.  Or the Rangers for that matter.

His latest statements were "competitor".  Angels should fit that bill.

And if he won't go to the Rangers, then he should have just kept his fucking mouth shut, and I will revise my earlier opinion that you can't get upset for his asking out.

[Andyzipp]

His latest statements were "competitor".  Angels should fit that bill.

And if he won't go to the Rangers, then he should have just kept his fucking mouth shut, and I will revise my earlier opinion that you can't get upset for his asking out.

I would be extremely surprised if he accepted Anaheim or Arlington. 

I believe he wants Cards or Braves, Yankees or Red Sox.

[HudsonHawk]

His latest statements were "competitor".  Angels should fit that bill.

And if he won't go to the Rangers, then he should have just kept his fucking mouth shut, and I will revise my earlier opinion that you can't get upset for his asking out.

If he wants out, he wants out.  He should shut the fuck up and accept a trade to fucking Baltimore, if that's where the Astros send him.  If he doesn't, he's a bigger douchebag than he appears.

[BudGirl]

If he wants out, he wants out.  He should shut the fuck up and accept a trade to fucking Baltimore, if that's where the Astros send him.  If he doesn't, he's a bigger douchebag than he appears.

I congree.

[geezerdonk]

Not really.

Is that the prophet there in the middle?

[Noe]

BP reports that the Angels are going to make a big push for Oswalt, with other likely destinations including MIN, STL, and NYM.  TEX and LAD would both make sense but have f'ed-up ownership situations that will preclude deals.

Angels?  I think that any AL West team that comes calling, Oswalt will think the chances of a World Series chance are lessened, not increased.  Too bad, because Scocia has his team playing like an NL team and if they show a little more, they can make a push I suppose.  The fact that John Lakey bolted last year and had a dust up with Scocia in the playoffs probably doesn't make Oswalt feel good.

I still say that Stl, Atlanta (only because it's his hometown), Tampa Bay and New York are at the top of the list with Boston and maybe Minnesota a good secondary list.  All others are a distant third.

[JimR]

expect the Phillies to try.

my friend: "he needs to shut up."

[Mr. Happy]

expect the Phillies to try.

my friend: "he needs to shut up."

That would make a splash, especially since they traded Cliff Lee just last fall. Your friend is right, as he always seems to be.

[Outlawscotty]

ESPN crawler last night said that the Nats were going to pursue the opportunity as well.  I'm sure that's high on his list, but at least it would make me happy for him.

[Ron Brand]

ESPN is the Fox News Channel of sports.

[homer]

ESPN is the Fox News Channel of sports.

I don't know what this means.

[Outlawscotty]

I don't know what this means.

I would guess he means fair and balanced, but we all know that ain't true.

[MusicMan]

ESPN crawler last night said that the Nats were going to pursue the opportunity as well.  I'm sure that's high on his list, but at least it would make me happy for him.

This was a relay of an mlb.com report.

[Outlawscotty]

This was a relay of an mlb.com report.

OK, so that makes them the Drudge Report then, right?

[S.P. Rodriguez]

expect the Phillies to try.

my friend: "he needs to shut up."

Thanks for sharing this info Jim.  Not asking you to answer this question, but I wonder what Philly would be willing to part with to get Roy?  The Astros offense sure could use someone like Jayson Werth.  

ETA: Hell, throw in Gunther for the add on of Kendrick, and I can't see either party saying NO!  Of cource, I'm not a GM either.  So what do I know.

[Ron Brand]

It means that it's all bluster and bullshit with the muscle behind it to jam it down so many throats that the lazy majority will accept it as plausible and true. The Nats? Come on.

[hostros7]

Thanks for sharing this info Jim.  Not asking you to answer this question, but I wonder what Philly would be willing to part with to get Roy?  The Astros offense sure could use someone like Jayson Werth.  

where would he play in the field?  He's also in the last year of a 2-year $10 mill contract.  No thanks.  I'd start the discussions with young pitching, although I'm not sure what Philly has left on the farm after the last 2 years. Probably no way they'd hand over Happ, but I might ask the question.

[MusicMan]

Thanks for sharing this info Jim.  Not asking you to answer this question, but I wonder what Philly would be willing to part with to get Roy?  The Astros offense sure could use someone like Jayson Werth.

Werth is a FA.  But any deal would start with Domonic Brown and Phillippe Aumont.

[homer]

It means that it's all bluster and bullshit with the muscle behind it to jam it down so many throats that the lazy majority will accept it as plausible and true. The Nats? Come on.

So, ESPN is the media. Got it.

[Ron Brand]

So, ESPN is the media. Got it.

Noooooo, ESPN is the Media Goliath with a more obvious agenda than its competitors - in this case, it's something like It's The Truth Because We Say It Is. The Media is not a single entity, nor does it have an inherent agenda.

[subnuclear]

It means that it's all bluster and bullshit with the muscle behind it to jam it down so many throats that the lazy majority will accept it as plausible and true. The Nats? Come on.

You don't think the Nats are interested in Oswalt?  I agree they probably aren't on the top of Oswalt's list, but I have no doubt they are trying to improve the team. 

[Ron Brand]

You don't think the Nats are interested in Oswalt?  I agree they probably aren't on the top of Oswalt's list, but I have no doubt they are trying to improve the team. 

They can be as interested as they want to be, but since they are in no way 'contenders' or on what most guesses would have as Oswalt's short list, I'd say it isn't worthy of crawl space on a broadcast. It's meaningless.

[hostros7]

They can be as interested as they want to be, but since they are in no way 'contenders' or on what most guesses would have as Oswalt's short list, I'd say it isn't worthy of crawl space on a broadcast. It's meaningless.

They also have all the midsummer splash they need in the form of the best major league pitcher to have never pitched an inning in the major leagues, Strasburg.  He's lined up to fill the void left on ESPN by Brett Favre in case he decides to retire.

[Ron Brand]

They also have all the midsummer splash they need in the form of the best major league pitcher to have never pitched an inning in the major leagues, Strasburg.  He's lined up to fill the void left on ESPN by Brett Favre in case he decides to retire.

And his fourth minor league start, coming today, was another part of their crawl that ran endlessly last night. Somebody's got a friend in Bristol.

[JimR]

Thanks for sharing this info Jim.  Not asking you to answer this question, but I wonder what Philly would be willing to part with to get Roy?  The Astros offense sure could use someone like Jayson Werth.  

ETA: Hell, throw in Gunther for the add on of Kendrick, and I can't see either party saying NO!  Of cource, I'm not a GM either.  So what do I know.

he did not say, and i did not ask. my inference was they have the players but are not sure they have the money. that was the ultimate reason they traded Lee.

[Andyzipp]

You don't think the Nats are interested in Oswalt?  I agree they probably aren't on the top of Oswalt's list, but I have no doubt they are trying to improve the team. 

See this is the issue (for me, anyway). Oswalt has a no trade clause.  He can talk all he wants about doing something that is good for him and the Astros, but he's only going to waive that clause for the team(s) he wants to go to.  There's no way he thinks he's getting to the World Series with the Nationals.

[Ron Brand]

he did not say, and i did not ask. my inference was they have the players but are not sure they have the money. that was the ultimate reason they traded Lee.

Dang. I wouldn't mind seeing him as a Phillie and they ought to be able to put together a decent package for him.

[Ron Brand]

See this is the issue (for me, anyway). Oswalt has a no trade clause.  He can talk all he wants about doing something that is good for him and the Astros, but he's only going to waive that clause for the team(s) he wants to go to.  There's no way he thinks he's getting to the World Series with the Nationals.

That's right. It COULD work out to be a win-win, but there are a lot of restrictions on it that will make that difficult as hell.

[Noe]

If St. Louis is interested, then it's automatic that the Phillies are interested.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

he did not say, and i did not ask. my inference was they have the players but are not sure they have the money. that was the ultimate reason they traded Lee.

Understood.  My question was more just thinking out loud.  I know the Phils have a RF in the minors that makes Werth expendable, but he appears to be in AA.  Their AAA club is filled mostly with players pushing 30 and haven't seen much MLB time.  

Also, on the money issue, duly noted.  Again, I was day dreaming about possible returns.  Werth and Kendrick would be a great package for Oswalt and Thunder Pants.  

And Noe, let's sure as hell hope they are both in the mix!

[Noe]

That's right. It COULD work out to be a win-win, but there are a lot of restrictions on it that will make that difficult as hell.

I don't think so, just my opinion of course, but contenders are not that hard to pick out: St. Louis, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay and New York Yankees.  The rest need to prove themselves a little.  So you can create a market/bidding war between all four teams easily.  And yes, you get serious about trading him to the Cardinals.  It's how it has to be, you can't make the Phillies think you're not serious about a St. Louis deal.  

[Ron Brand]

I don't think so, just my opinion of course, but contenders are not that hard to pick out: St. Louis, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay and New York Yankees.  The rest need to prove themselves a little.  So you can create a market/bidding war between all four teams easily.  And yes, you get serious about trading him to the Cardinals.  It's how it has to be, you can't make the Phillies think you're not serious about a St. Louis deal.  

It's certainly an opportunity for Wade and Drayton to do something explosively positive. I hope they do.

[Noe]

Understood.  My question was more just thinking out loud.  I know the Phils have a RF in the minors that makes Werth expendable, but he appears to be in AA.  Their AAA club is filled mostly with players pushing 30 and haven't seen much MLB time.  

Also, on the money issue, duly noted.  Again, I was day dreaming about possible returns.  Werth and Kendrick would be a great package for Oswalt and Thunder Pants.  

And Noe, let's sure as hell hope they are both in the mix!

St. Louis for sure.  It's where Oswalt wants to go and he would approve a deal right away.  Like today even.  And St. Louis has to be interested in having a starting rotation of Carpenter, Wainwright, Oswalt and Penny (with Lohse as the fifth starter).  That would make them the prohibited favorite not only this year, but next year as well.  The Yankees, Phillies would not sit still and let that happen, they'd come running to make an offer too.  Tampa Bay not so much, I understand they are cash strapped.  But then again, if Houston would eat some salary, then definitely count Tampa Bay in.

[austro]

I don't think so, just my opinion of course, but contenders are not that hard to pick out: St. Louis, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay and New York Yankees.  The rest need to prove themselves a little.  So you can create a market/bidding war between all four teams easily.  And yes, you get serious about trading him to the Cardinals.  It's how it has to be, you can't make the Phillies think you're not serious about a St. Louis deal. 

I know people will rant about "trading within the division" as if it's some holy writ, but to me it actually makes sense: let them have Oswalt for the two years that we're not going to be competitive anyway, but skim the cream off the top of their farm system, so that when we're competitive again, they're scrambling to find talent.

[Noe]

I know people will rant about "trading within the division" as if it's some holy writ, but to me it actually makes sense: let them have Oswalt for the two years that we're not going to be competitive anyway, but skim the cream off the top of their farm system, so that when we're competitive again, they're scrambling to find talent.

I agree.

[Ron Brand]

I know people will rant about "trading within the division" as if it's some holy writ, but to me it actually makes sense: let them have Oswalt for the two years that we're not going to be competitive anyway, but skim the cream off the top of their farm system, so that when we're competitive again, they're scrambling to find talent.

That's gonna have to be one charming motherfucking pig.

[MusicMan]

I know people will rant about "trading within the division" as if it's some holy writ, but to me it actually makes sense: let them have Oswalt for the two years that we're not going to be competitive anyway, but skim the cream off the top of their farm system, so that when we're competitive again, they're scrambling to find talent.

From what I understand, STL's farm system is in worse shape than ours.

[austro]

From what I understand, STL's farm system is in worse shape than ours.

A minor stumbling block.

[Jacksonian]

From what I understand, STL's farm system is in worse shape than ours.

That's the other half of the trading equation.  The other team has to have something you want.  I can't see the Cards competing for Oswalt.

[Andyzipp]

From what I understand, STL's farm system is in worse shape than ours.

that's impossible.  Houston has the worst farm system in the history of farm systems.  Ed Wade is an idiot. Drayton McLane is cheap, and (most recently...thanks chuck) the Astros are a joke of a franchise.

Doomed.

[HudsonHawk]

That's the other half of the trading equation.  The other team has to have something you want.  I can't see the Cards competing for Oswalt.

I have been assured by Cardinal fans that they would be more than willing to swap Kyle Lohse for Oswalt, provided the Astros pay most of Oswalt's salary this year and next.  Furthermore, I've been reminded that the Astros would be stupid for not jumping all over this deal.  BFIB.

[Ron Brand]

That's the other half of the trading equation.  The other team has to have something you want.  I can't see the Cards competing for Oswalt.

Menage a trois, then?

[Limey]

Menage a trois, then?

The Jakes are still going to have to give up something to someone to make the deal worthwhile for the Astros.  If the cupboard is bare...

[S.P. Rodriguez]

From what I understand, STL's farm system is in worse shape than ours.

Minus the high-ceiling RF in AA, I didn't see much in Philly's system either.  

[Jacksonian]

Menage a trois, then?

Dunno about that.  But, straight up trade, assuming Oswalt wants to go to a playoff contender as of right now, if I'm Wade my list is:

1)Rays















































2)and everyone else.

[Limey]

I have been assured by Cardinal fans that they would be more than willing to swap Kyle Lohse for Oswalt, provided the Astros pay most of Oswalt's salary this year and next.  Furthermore, I've been reminded that the Astros would be stupid for not jumping all over this deal.  BFIB.

I know I made a joke of this before, but if they have an arm-to-be-named-later somewhere deep on the farm, and they take Lee's fat ass and salary too...

[MusicMan]

Minus the high-ceiling RF in AA, I didn't see much in Philly's system either. 

Mariners gave them 3 pretty good guys in the Lee deal.

[jaklewein]

Just a quick note...it is my understanding that ATL doesn't have anywhere close to the kind of money to land Oswalt.  They practically gave away Vasquez to the Yankees to dump cash.  I realize he stinking up Yankee stadium now but he was one of the best pitchers in baseball last year. 

On top of that, Braves need a bat, and if they had the money I'd expect they'd be asking for Berkman, not Oswalt. 

I deal involving Lee for Kawakami might not be all that bad for either team.  Crazy?  Maybe, but I'm taking my shot.

[Limey]

I deal involving Lee for Kawakami might not be all that bad for either team.  Crazy?  Maybe, but I'm taking my shot.

If your shot was at being perceived as barking...success!

[JackAstro]

I have been assured by Cardinal fans that they would be more than willing to swap Kyle Lohse for Oswalt, provided the Astros pay most of Oswalt's salary this year and next.  Furthermore, I've been reminded that the Astros would be stupid for not jumping all over this deal.  BFIB.

This seems almost too good to be true – what's the catch?

-Neal Huntington

[OregonStrosFan]

Rosenthal's imaginary conversation between Wade and McLane.

[Andyzipp]

Rosenthal's imaginary conversation between Wade and McLane.

That was neither trite nor predictable.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Mariners gave them 3 pretty good guys in the Lee deal.

Roger that...

right-hander Phillippe Aumont - AA
outfielder Tyson Gillies - AA
right-hander Juan Ramirez - High A

I'm not sure any of them are "major league ready".  Then again, that''s not what Philly needed. Philly needs a piece or two in the next two seasons.  They will need more over the long haul.  I suspect that's where those three slot.  Just going on what I've read.  Specifically, that none even hint at seeing major league time this season.  The first two might be in consideration next year, but only if a need exists.  

Dominic Brown is the AA player who had the outstanding ST.  Again, all based on what I read.  He seems like something special and unlikely the Phillies package him in any deal.

[homer]

I have been assured by Cardinal fans that they would be more than willing to swap Kyle Lohse for Oswalt, provided the Astros pay most of Oswalt's salary this year and next.  Furthermore, I've been reminded that the Astros would be stupid for not jumping all over this deal.  BFIB.

Those idiots probably thought Lost was quality television, too.

[HudsonHawk]

Those idiots probably thought Lost was quality television, too.

I don't know about that, but they also once informed me that the reason David Eckstein had to play SS was because he didn't have the arm to play 2B.  BFiB.

[moriartp]

Those idiots probably thought Lost was quality television, too.

Too soon, man. I'm still reeling.

[Bench]

Those idiots probably thought Lost was quality television, too.

Or that Fox News is actually fair or balanced.

[Ron Brand]

Fox News' agenda isn't to be fair and balanced, it's to make money. The same is true of CNN or MSNBC or most of the others. Fox happens to be a lot better at it than the others, they went out and created a whole new universe of customers that can't get their product anywhere else. CNN and the others are still working with an old model.

[Limey]

CNN and the others are still working with an old model.

Wait, I thought Sarah was on Fox....

[MusicMan]

If this is going to be the dedicated "Roy trade rumors/news/innuendo" thread, then can we keep it to that?

[chuck]

that's impossible.  Houston has the worst farm system in the history of farm systems.  Ed Wade is an idiot. Drayton McLane is cheap, and (most recently...thanks chuck) the Astros are a joke of a franchise.

There are franchises who demonstrate their interest in winning and there are franchises who refuse to sign draft picks and for years elect not to maintain a serious presence in the Dominican. But hey, they have Glen Barker roaming around Asia. That has to count for something.

[Jacksonian]

There are franchises who demonstrate their interest in winning and there are franchises who refuse to sign draft picks and for years elect not to maintain a serious presence in the Dominican. But hey, they have Glen Barker roaming around Asia. That has to count for something.

So you're saying the Astros are heading in the right direction in Asia and the Dominican?

[Noe]

Fox News' agenda isn't to be fair and balanced, it's to make money. The same is true of CNN or MSNBC or most of the others. Fox happens to be a lot better at it than the others, they went out and created a whole new universe of customers that can't get their product anywhere else. CNN and the others are still working with an old model.

Somehow the whole "Fox happens to be a lot better at it...." goes out the window the minute Joy Behar's show revs up on CNN.

[Ron Brand]

If this is going to be the dedicated "Roy trade rumors/news/innuendo" thread, then can we keep it to that?

See 'cats, herding.'

[Limey]

Somehow the whole "Fox happens to be a lot better at it...." the minute Joy Behar's show revs up on CNN.

I like watching Fox News with the sound turned down.  They have the best news models.

[Ron Brand]

I like watching Fox News with the sound turned down.  They have the best news models.

It's all part of the EE-vil plan...bwahahahahaaaaa...!

[Noe]

You know, somehow the baseball GMs saw what happened last year when the New York Yankees added two quality pitchers to their team.  They basically had little to no problem winning the World Series and they just may repeat for about, oh, two to three more years.  So any AL or NL team that wants to compete against the Yankees better not ignore a chance to add Roy Oswalt to your staff.  Even if it means you may have to give up some quality in return.  It's either now or who knows when you'll get another opportunity like this to stand toe to toe with the Yanks and their pitching.

Everyone but the Rays probably should be lining up and ready to make their best offer.  Houston does *NOT* have to trade Roy Oswalt, no matter how much he wants out.  Not if it's pennys on the dollar.  It's about a quality Ace-like pitcher saying he wants out and to go to a contender.  It's about lining up and taking advantage of the situation and making your club not just good or a contender, but the favorite above the Yankees.  It's about this season (and possibly next year) to win a championship if you're one arm away from being the best team in baseball... bar none.

So all those teams who want to monkey around with offers such as Kyle Lohse and you pay Oswalt's salary are just going to have to get used to getting the phone hung up on them and then watch the Yankees or Rays and the Phillies return to the World Series while everyone else struggles in the playoffs.

[OregonStrosFan]

See 'cats, herding.'

Yeah, silly me somehow thinking that a thread related to relevant Astros information could avoid turning into another ridiculous political'esque back and forth.  Total bullshit.

[Ron Brand]

Yeah, silly me somehow thinking that a thread related to relevant Astros information could avoid turning into another ridiculous political'esque back and forth.  Total bullshit.

It wobbles, but it stays upright.

And I wasn't interjecting politics, I started out grumbling about ESPN and thought I took a couple of shots on my remark so I attempted to clarify a bit.

Back to your regularly scheduled guesses on this week's episode of 'As The Ace Cries.'

[MusicMan]

Everyone but the Rays probably should be lining up and ready to make their best offer. 

I'm glad you included this caveat.  That Rays rotation is incredible.  I honestly don't think they add anything with Oswalt.

[Andyzipp]

There are franchises who demonstrate their interest in winning and there are franchises who refuse to sign draft picks and for years elect not to maintain a serious presence in the Dominican. But hey, they have Glen Barker roaming around Asia. That has to count for something.

Everything you're talking about is valid, and also in the past.  I suppose the proof is in the pudding, but the draft issues coincided with Purpura being in charge of the draft (including Hunsicker's last year or two.) And the Dominican presence was somewhat mitigated by the Venezuelan Academy.  Either way, both issues have been rectified.

Of course, McLane's two of three biggest failings are those you listed. And they've come home to roost, so to speak.

Still, the Astros are around the middle of the pack when it comes to franchise health. 

[MusicMan]

Still, the Astros are around the middle of the pack when it comes to franchise health. 

Oh, I beg to differ.  Are they looking in the right direction?  I think so.  But the number of teams worse off are a definite minority:
CLE, KC, PIT, maybe TOR and BAL.

[BUWebguy]

So you're saying the Astros are heading in the right direction in Asia and the Dominican?

Whether it's the right direction or not -- they're getting there fast!

[Noe]

I'm glad you included this caveat.  That Rays rotation is incredible.  I honestly don't think they add anything with Oswalt.

Yeah, but they certainly can make the Yankees stand up and listen if rumors fly that the Rays are kicking tires.  And if Wade gets them to give names they might consider, then the Yankees will come running.  The Rays *don't* have to make a trade, but they certainly can kick tires and force other teams to consider it.   As is right now, the Rays only problem that I can see is lack of power hitters.  If they add one at the trading deadline, they will be as good if not better than the Yankees.  They can go toe-to-toe with the Yanks.  The problem, as I understand it, is that the Rays suffer from salary limitations, so they have to spend wisely.  If they wanted cash from a trading partner to help the trade, then they're going to have to give up really quality prospects.

[OregonStrosFan]

If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals...

I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow. Random Twitter LINK

[Ron Brand]

If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals...

I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow. Random Twitter LINK

Ok, so now we probably have the outer edge of the Realm of Possibility nailed down. It's just a matter of walking it back in from there.

[MusicMan]

If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals...

I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow. Random Twitter LINK

Clearly Phillips has swapped one addiction for another.

[JackAstro]

If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals...

I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow. Random Twitter LINK

is there a petition to get steve phillips hired as the gm of any team in baseball other than houston? if so, please point me in that direction, so that i may sign it.

[Noe]

If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals... LINK

I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow.

One problem I'm having is how undervalued Roy Oswalt is by some.  As if they've never seen him pitch.  This guy is not too far off the same guy who stuffed the Cardinals in game 6 of the 2005 NLCS.  That night, several Co-ard hitters told each other on the bench "We're not going to beat this guy".  Oswalt's problems since those days seem to be tied to health issue (nagging back and groin injuries) that have been for the most part been rectified.  And if he really has mastered his changeup, then he's going to be damn good for someone.

Does that mean he's better than Strasburg?  Who knows, probably not.  But this is not a trade for Kyle Lohse to be your #4 pitcher... that much is true.  You want a 1a and 1b rotation like the Cardinals, Rays, Phils (when Cole Hamels is on his game) and Yankees?  Add Oswalt to your team.  You want to be better than the Cardinals, Phils and Yankees (and probably equal to the Rays)?  Add Roy Oswalt to your team.  That's the key, you're not trying to get even with the contenders, you're trying to lap them!

[Jacksonian]

If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals...

I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow. Random Twitter LINK

I actually get the thinking.

[Noe]

I actually get the thinking.

When the Cubs had Mark Prior, no one ever thought that Prior would ever fizzle out.  He was destined to be the next Walter Johnson and take the Cubs to their first and many more World Series and then punch his ticket to the Hall of Fame.  Not that Strasburg is destined for injury, no one knows that, but you have to know what you're doing to make yourself a contender and sometimes you trust the kids and sometimes you don't.

The year the Marlins won it all, they had a AA pitcher named Dontrelle Willis take the league by storm.  But the leading arm on that squad was Josh Beckett with added help from Penny and Pavano.  Strasburgh should be treated as a help for the Nationals, not the savior arm right now.  Not unless you want to grind him into the ground early in his career.

[MusicMan]

I actually get the thinking.

Please, explain it to me, because I don't understand why Washington would mortgage their future to try for a wild card birth.

[Noe]

Please, explain it to me, because I don't understand why Washington would mortgage their future to try for a wild card birth.

I don't think it's about a straight-up deal.  I think it is about "who would you rather have on your squad to help you win a World Series this season if you're the Nationals?"  My answer: I dunno, but to protect Strassburgh, I'd go with Oswalt.

[Andyzipp]

Oh, I beg to differ.  Are they looking in the right direction?  I think so.  But the number of teams worse off are a definite minority:
CLE, KC, PIT, maybe TOR and BAL.

Bottom of the middle of the pack?

I'd personally add Seattle, Colorado and Arizona to that list, but point taken.

[Rebel Jew]

When the Cubs had Mark Prior, no one ever thought that Prior would ever fizzle out.  He was destined to be the next Walter Johnson and take the Cubs to their first and many more World Series and then punch his ticket to the Hall of Fame.  Not that Strasburg is destined for injury, no one knows that, but you have to know what you're doing to make yourself a contender and sometimes you trust the kids and sometimes you don't.

The year the Marlins won it all, they had a AA pitcher named Dontrelle Willis take the league by storm.  But the leading arm on that squad was Josh Beckett with added help from Penny and Pavano.  Strasburgh should be treated as a help for the Nationals, not the savior arm right now.  Not unless you want to grind him into the ground early in his career.

a few years ago i recall scanning through some old tapes looking for something (i can't remember what) when i came upon an old sportscenter.  the lead story was the highly anticipated big league debut of, get ready for it, mega prospect cj nitkowski.

[Andyzipp]

As is right now, the Rays only problem that I can see is lack of power hitters.  If they add one at the trading deadline, they will be as good if not better than the Yankees.  They can go toe-to-toe with the Yanks.  The problem, as I understand it, is that the Rays suffer from salary limitations, so they have to spend wisely. 

Gunther Pants hits for power.  I promise.

[jbm]

Noe, I hope your optimistic scenario of a bidding war plays out. I have no sense of the market, but a complicating factor is that Oswalt's perceived ability is probably at a peak right now and Wade might want to act sooner than later. That would hinder the cultivation of a prolonged bidding war.  

[MusicMan]

Bottom of the middle of the pack?

I'd personally add Seattle, Colorado and Arizona to that list, but point taken.

I cannot think of any way that Colorado is worse off than the Astros.  Good young team.

[Noe]

Noe, I hope your optimistic scenario of a bidding war plays out. I have no sense of the market, but a complicating factor is that Oswalt's perceived ability is probably at a peak right now and Wade might want to act sooner than later. That would hinder the cultivation of a prolonged bidding war.  

Just trying to figure out how this can happen for the positive for the Astros.  Any deal has to be a win-win, not a fire sale situation (that I can tell) nor a "i'm getting ready to sell the team or I'm in a messy divorce, get rid of huge salaries" situation either.  If the worse case is the Astros decide to keep Oswalt for two more years, then that is not bad either.

[Jacksonian]

Please, explain it to me, because I don't understand why Washington would mortgage their future to try for a wild card birth.

Phillips is operating under the "go for it all now because tomorrow may never get here" view.  Going for a chance at a ring right now with a known high-end pitcher over a pitcher with no mlb experience.  For all any of us know Strasburg could go Ankiel PDQ.

[Andyzipp]

Just trying to figure out how this can happen for the positive for the Astros.  Any deal has to be a win-win, not a fire sale situation (that I can tell) nor a "i'm getting ready to sell the team, get rid of huge salaries" situation either.  If the worse case is the Astros decide to keep Oswalt for two more years, then that is not bad either.

See, I don't think firesale, but I think that McLane is actively trying to sell the team.  Why he's trying to do it in a shit economy is beyond me, but my calculator doesn't go that high.

[MusicMan]

Phillips is operating under the "go for it all now because tomorrow may never get here" view. 

Thank thinking landed him on ESPN.

[Jacksonian]

Thank thinking landed him on ESPN.

I didn't say he was right, just that I understood.

[Noe]

See, I don't think firesale, but I think that McLane is actively trying to sell the team.  Why he's trying to do it in a shit economy is beyond me, but my calculator doesn't go that high.

I don't get the vibe of firesale either.  Even if he's selling the club (which he may be doing actively), he (McLane) is still about the turnstiles and right now they're not turning.  McLane is about giving the fans what they want and until fans boo Oswalt (*cue next game maybe*?), then McLane won't do anything.  But this situation smacks of McLane understanding "re-build" for the first time in like... EVER!  McLane has often said he will elicit advice from his players, like Bagwell and Biggio, Berkman and Oswalt.  Until this situation, I doubt any of them said "we need to rebuild" to McLane.  To their credit, most of the time they were right, including Berkman and Oswalt.  But now, both Berkman and Oswalt seem to be talking "rebuild" to McLane and others.

And now McLane is listening.  But he won't give Oswalt away either.  I think he'll just keep Roy around and ask Wade to find another way to get a better product on the field.

[Noe]

Gunther Pants hits for power.  I promise.

So does Berkman.  Ooohhhh...

[Matt]

So does Berkman.  Ooohhhh...

What I was thinking. Especially with Pena not hitting much for the Rays.

[MusicMan]

So does Berkman.  Ooohhhh...

The funny thing is, I was wondering this morning whether WAS would consider Oswalt AND Berkman for Strasburg.  My thinking was that the combo might (1) realistically put them in the playoffs and (2) make enough of a splash to offset the PR loss of Strasburg.  And yet I still concluded no.

[jbm]

I also think the Oswalt for Strasburg is fantasy, but don't the Nationals have the first pick again, with baseball's Lebron sitting there with Boras as his agent?  That is a lot of cash invested in two players who aren't even in the bigs. That is long-term constraining for non big market clubs.   

[Noe]

What I was thinking. Especially with Pena not hitting much for the Rays.

Two words: D. H. (rest those knees for hitting only)

[Matt]

Two words: D. H. (rest those knees for hitting only)

Yep and then if Pena does start hitting, which there is a good chance of, then the Rays are REALLY in business.

[Noe]

I also think the Oswalt for Strasburg is fantasy, but don't the Nationals have the first pick again, with baseball's Lebron sitting there with Boras as his agent?  That is a lot of cash invested in two players who aren't even in the bigs. That is long-term constraining for non big market clubs.   

If only the MLB would allow trading players for draft picks!  (BTW - isn't the kid a catcher?  Maybe I'm misremembering).

[Noe]

Yep and then if Pena does start hitting, which there is a good chance of, then the Rays are REALLY in business.

Yup.  Texiera isn't going to stay in a funk all season either, so the battle betwix the Yankees and Rays would become classics with the BoSox playing spoiler throughout.  Would make for one damn interesting race in the AL East and then a face-off in the ALCS when both get that far (similar to the 2004 and 2005 Co-ard and Astros playoff runs).

[jbm]

If only the MLB would allow trading players for draft picks!  (BTW - isn't the kid a catcher?  Maybe I'm misremembering).

yes, it would certainly make everything more interesting. He is/or was both a catcher and pitcher, but it sounds like an everyday position is his future.

[pots]

The funny thing is, I was wondering this morning whether WAS would consider Oswalt AND Berkman for Strasburg.  My thinking was that the combo might (1) realistically put them in the playoffs and (2) make enough of a splash to offset the PR loss of Strasburg.  And yet I still concluded no.

I kept hoping that Berkman would turn it on and start swirling some Smoak for Berkman rumors.  But that isn't going to happen either

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Okay... I got it.  Oswalt, Pence, and Bogusevic for Crawford and Zobrist. 

If I'm going to dream, I'm dreaming big. 

[HudsonHawk]

Okay... I got it.  Oswalt, Pence, and Bogusevic for Crawford and Zobrist. 

If I'm going to dream, I'm dreaming big. 

Quick...find a way to get Aubrey Huff back and then swap him straight up for Zobrist!

Which reminds me of something else Cardinal fans have told me...Zobrist  was really glad that the Astros traded him because he's such a huge Cardinal fan, he didn't think he could play for the Astros in good conscience.  He'd have a real moral dilema on his hands if asked to do anything to beat the Cardinals.  BFiB.

[Limey]

Quick...find a way to get Aubrey Huff back and then swap him straight up for Zobrist!

Which reminds me of something else Cardinal fans have told me...Zobrist  was really glad that the Astros traded him because he's such a huge Cardinal fan, he didn't think he could play for the Astros in good conscience.  He'd have a real moral dilema on his hands if asked to do anything to beat the Cardinals.  BFiB.

Card Fan

[Noe]

Okay... I got it.  Oswalt, Pence, and Bogusevic for Crawford and Zobrist.  

If I'm going to dream, I'm dreaming big.  

Carl Crawford is a free agent next year.   All the more reason to jettison either Oswalt or Berkman's salary, you can go get a young Carl for your team.  Carlos Lee is perhaps the most unmoveable player in terms of... well, everything... but in terms of trading him, even more so.  An outfield of Crawford, Bourn and Bogusevic might be very sweet to consider for a few years (with Yordany Ramirez as the fifth outfielder as well).  Lee is working his way towards an expensive bench player as it were (might inspire him to ask for a trade too).

With that sort of move next offseason, you can be looking at a lineup primarily made up of Bourn, Crawford, Castro, Johnson and Bogusevic, with the latter three trying to adjust to the majors.  I'd rather they make the move now to get the latter three some major league PT and then next year have a really nice *young* team.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Carl Crawford is a free agent next year.   All the more reason to jettison either Oswalt or Berkman's salary, you can go get a young Carl for your team.  Carlos Lee is perhaps the most unmoveable player in terms of... well, everything... but in terms of trading him, even more so.  An outfield of Crawford, Bourn and Bogusevic might be very sweet to consider for a few years (with Yordany Ramirez as the fifth outfielder as well).  Lee is working his way towards an expensive bench player as it were (might inspire him to ask for a trade too).

With that sort of move next offseason, you can be looking at a lineup primarily made up of Bourn, Crawford, Castro, Johnson and Bogusevic, with the latter three trying to adjust to the majors.  I'd rather they make the move now to get the latter three some major league PT and then next year have a really nice *young* team.

If you want some of what I'm drinking, just say so.  Glad to share!!!

(that was to note my own doubt that Tampa trades Crawford.  I'm aware they have a stud in AAA, waiting for Crawford to depart via FA.  But that's a huge subtraction for a team that's hoping to win the AL East to get another shot at a WS.  I'm not sure displacing one of their solid starters, for Oswalt, helps them more than losing Crawford would hurt. )

[hostros7]

If you want some of what I'm drinking, just say so.  Glad to share!!!

(that was to note my own doubt that Tampa trades Crawford.  I'm aware they have a stud in AAA, waiting for Crawford to depart via FA.  But that's a huge subtraction for a team that's hoping to win the AL East to get another shot at a WS.  I'm not sure displacing one of their solid starters, for Oswalt, helps them more than losing Crawford would hurt. )

I'm inclined to think that Crawford wants to test the free agent market this winter and wants to get paid, like rap video paid. Don't think he'd sign a hometown discount prior to testing the market.  Just my sense from hearing about his training regimen this past off-season.

[Bench]

If you want some of what I'm drinking, just say so.  Glad to share!!!

(that was to note my own doubt that Tampa trades Crawford.  I'm aware they have a stud in AAA, waiting for Crawford to depart via FA.  But that's a huge subtraction for a team that's hoping to win the AL East to get another shot at a WS.  I'm not sure displacing one of their solid starters, for Oswalt, helps them more than losing Crawford would hurt. )

I think Noe was saying get rid of cash now via trade and try to sign Crawford as a free agent.  Obviously the Rays aren't going to trade Crawford in a trade designed to improve their chances to win this year.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I think Noe was saying get rid of cash now via trade and try to sign Crawford as a free agent.  Obviously the Rays aren't going to trade Crawford in a trade designed to improve their chances to win this year.

Thanks.  That occurred to me after I posted my sarcastic response.  I'll go back to my drinkin...

[Noe]

I'm inclined to think that Crawford wants to test the free agent market this winter and wants to get paid, like rap video paid. Don't think he'd sign a hometown discount prior to testing the market.  Just my sense from hearing about his training regimen this past off-season.

I know that hometown discount means a lot, especially to McLane.  But if exhibit A of hometown discount discount is Carlos Lee (100 meeleon dollars), then Houston can obtain Carl Crawford just as easily as anyone else.   Just saying.

[Astroholic]

I know that hometown discount means a lot, especially to McLane.  But if exhibit A of hometown discount discount is Carlos Lee (100 meeleon dollars), then Houston can obtain Carl Crawford just as easily as anyone else.   Just saying.

I didnt know Lee was a native Houstonian.

[MusicMan]

I didnt know Lee was a native Houstonian.

Please refer to the "native/adopted/ranch/injured/other discounts" portion of your Houston FA Buying Guide.

[Astroholic]

Please refer to the "native/adopted/ranch/injured/other discounts" portion of your Houston FA Buying Guide.

What the hell do I know?  I was born in Charleston SC, though I have been here since I was 1.

[Noe]

Things just got interesting in St. Louis:

Kyle Lohse Needs Surgery on Arm

Of course, as any BBFiB would know, trading for Oswalt would be a step down from Lohse, but juneberno.

[BudGirl]

Things just got interesting in St. Louis:

Kyle Lohse Needs Surgery on Arm

Of course, as any BBFiB would know, trading for Oswalt would be a step down from Lohse, but juneberno.

I heard that on the Brewers broadcast.

[Noe]

I heard that on the Brewers broadcast.

Saw it on the ESPN news crawl during lunch.

[Bench]

After the game last night, did Roy say something along the lines of "I told y'all I had to go out and throw a shutout just to have a chance at winning"?

[BudGirl]

Norris is expected to miss his Saturday start.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7025019.html

[MusicMan]

Jayson Stark weighs in with an anonymous source that sounds an awful lot like Gerry:

Has he ever traded a veteran player?" asked one longtime baseball man who has done a lot of business with McLane. "Go back and look. He'll move payroll. But he's never been a guy who told his public, 'We're not going to win, so we're going to clean house.' He's always felt that portrays the wrong kind of image."

But when asked whether he could see McLane authorizing the Astros to eat some of that money so they could get more talent back in a deal, the same baseball man replied: "I can only speak from historical perspective. He's never, ever done that."

and, different source:

I honestly see no market for him," said the club official quoted above. "Maybe the Angels. But the Yankees have five starters they like. The Red Sox have five starters they like. I don't see him going to the Mets. The Cardinals aren't looking for starting pitching. The Dodgers have no money. So a lot can change in two months, but I honestly don't see a market."

[Jacksonian]

Jayson Stark weighs in

and, different source:
I honestly see no market for him," said the club official quoted above. "Maybe the Angels. But the Yankees have five starters they like. The Red Sox have five starters they like. I don't see him going to the Mets. The Cardinals aren't looking for starting pitching. The Dodgers have no money. So a lot can change in two months, but I honestly don't see a market."

The end of May market is a different market than the end of July market.  So to say right now there's no market for Oswalt doesn't make much sense to me.

[Andyzipp]

The end of May market is a different market than the end of July market.  So to say right now there's no market for Oswalt doesn't make much sense to me.

Unless you're attempting to deal for him, in which case, you hope there's no competition for him.

[Noe]

The end of May market is a different market than the end of July market.  So to say right now there's no market for Oswalt doesn't make much sense to me.

I think it's accurate.  Hence why you make a market instead of waiting for the market to dictate to you his value.  It's a game of chicken in a way, but all you need is one solid rumor that, say, the Rays are in on Oswalt.  Here comes the Yankees and Boston, with a few others calling.  Or a rumor that the Cardinals are interested, all of a sudden, you're going to get some keen interest from Philly and maybe a few other NL teams.  Kyle Lohse being a mystery now puts a new spin on things too.

So all in all, a "market for him" is a correct statement.  A market that Ed Wade can create for him is entirely different.  BTW - Wade talked a little about trading Oswalt yesterday and his basic gist is that with so many teams not knowing right now what they need, a trade is difficult to pull off.  All teams are waiting to see what they need right around the trading deadline and probably not sooner.  Makes trading Oswalt right now almost impossible.  He feels he'll know who his trading partners will be (if any) in the future but not right now.

[Andyzipp]

I think it's accurate.  Hence why you make a market instead of waiting for the market to dictate to you his value.  It's a game of chicken in a way, but all you need is one solid rumor that, say, the Rays are in on Oswalt.  Here comes the Yankees and Boston, with a few others calling.  Or a rumor that the Cardinals are interested, all of a sudden, you're going to get some keen interest from Philly and maybe a few other NL teams.  Kyle Lohse being a mystery now puts a new spin on things too.

So all in all, a "market for him" is a correct statement.  A market that Ed Wade can create for him is entirely different.  BTW - Wade talked a little about trading Oswalt yesterday and his basic gist is that with so many teams not knowing right now what they need, a trade is difficult to pull off.  All teams are waiting to see what they need right around the trading deadline and probably not sooner.  Makes trading Oswalt right now almost impossible.  He feels he'll know who his trading partners will be (if any) in the future but not right now.

And there's still the issue of Oswalts willingness towards the teams involved.  The Blue Jays making an incredible offer in the world doesn't do anyone any good.

[pots]

The timing right now is just real bad.  They've supposedly been contacted by the Dodgers and Ryan (Rangers) suggesting there is possible interest later on.  In order for the Rangers to have interest, you have to wait till late June to July for the sale to complete.  In order for the Dodgers to have interest, you have to burn more of his 2010 salary (given the current team salary agreement between the spouses) or offer money which Drayton has already nixed.  (Which makes sense since you'd have a hard time selling a team that owes money for players that aren't on the roster).

Not to mention, the pitching is thin at Round Rock.  Maybe after mid-season, Lyles and Arguello might be ready for AAA, causing a surplus there.  Hopefully landing even more SPs via whatever trade can be made.  

[Jacksonian]

I think it's accurate.  Hence why you make a market instead of waiting for the market to dictate to you his value.  It's a game of chicken in a way, but all you need is one solid rumor that, say, the Rays are in on Oswalt.  Here comes the Yankees and Boston, with a few others calling.  Or a rumor that the Cardinals are interested, all of a sudden, you're going to get some keen interest from Philly and maybe a few other NL teams.  Kyle Lohse being a mystery now puts a new spin on things too.

So all in all, a "market for him" is a correct statement.  A market that Ed Wade can create for him is entirely different.  BTW - Wade talked a little about trading Oswalt yesterday and his basic gist is that with so many teams not knowing right now what they need, a trade is difficult to pull off.  All teams are waiting to see what they need right around the trading deadline and probably not sooner.  Makes trading Oswalt right now almost impossible.  He feels he'll know who his trading partners will be (if any) in the future but not right now.

My take was that the source was projecting forward to the end of the deadline.  No market.  If a GM doesn't buy the case Ed's making about other teams' interest then Ed spins his wheels.  I don't believe you can sit here today and say there will be no market through the end of July.  I believe Ed will be able to sell a bill of goods to other teams in July.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I believe Ed will be able to sell a bill of goods to other teams in July.

Not to beat a dead horse (or kick a man when he's down), but this is a key difference between Wade and Purpura.  I realize the comical writers are obliged to take cheap shots at wade.  But so far, I have no reason to dislike the job Wade has done as GM.  Hell, his moves make perfect sense given the owner/pres of business operations and the team/system that came with the job. 

[jbm]

I hope the part about Drayton's unwillingness to eat some of the salary is not true. Eating salary to get legit prospects beats dumping salary for a whole bunch of nothing. If they are going to trade money for mediocrity, keep him. It's the difference between sacrificing the present for a brighter future versus giving up on both the present and future.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I hope the part about Drayton's unwillingness to eat some of the salary is not true. Eating salary to get legit prospects beats dumping salary for a whole bunch of nothing. If they are going to trade money for mediocrity, keep him. It's the difference between sacrificing the present for a brighter future versus giving up on both the present and future.

One caveat to that, if they'll take Lee with Oswalt, I'd see that as a win/win.  Clearing 32mil in payroll is not a sacrifice of the future.  That would let them go after a big FA (such as Crawford or even Cliff Lee) and come out neutral on money.  The key is finding someone who wants to come to Houston and is willing to be part of a youth over-haul.  It's been stated before, but at some point they have to cut bait on this season.  That will allow them to promote Chris Johnson, and maybe others, to see exactly what they have and, subsequently, what they will need during the offseason.

[jbm]

One caveat to that, if they'll take Lee with Oswalt, I'd see that as a win/win.  Clearing 32mil in payroll is not a sacrifice of the future.  That would let them go after a big FA (such as Crawford or even Cliff Lee) and come out neutral on money.  The key is finding someone who wants to come to Houston and is willing to be part of a youth over-haul.  It's been stated before, but at some point they have to cut bait on this season.  That will allow them to promote Chris Johnson, and maybe others, to see exactly what they have and, subsequently, what they will need during the offseason.

It sounds like there are two mindsets. One which believes that every year, a team should be constructed to be the best it can be, regardless of the effect on the future. The other mindset is that the team won't be that competitive in the near future and all present moves are made for the years ahead.  

Under the first mindset, one might trade Oswalt for other vets, or dump his salary in hopes of signing another free agent, but this runs counter to the second mindset.

If they are wedded to the first, why trade Oswalt?  If they are going to embrace the second, commit to it, which might entail eating signficant chunks of his salary in order to obtain future value.  

[S.P. Rodriguez]

It sounds like there are two mindsets. One which believes that every year, a team should be constructed to be the best it can be, regardless of the effect on the future. The other mindset is that the team won't be that competitive in the near future and all present moves are made for the years ahead.  

Under the first mindset, one might trade Oswalt for other vets, or dump his salary in hopes of signing another free agent, but this runs counter to the second mindset.

If they are wedded to the first, why trade Oswalt?  If they are going to embrace the second, commit to it, which might entail eating signficant chunks of his salary in order to obtain future value.  

I understand what you are saying.  I'm simply speculating on the direction McLane will dictate for his franchise.  As the man said, check his history.  He simply doesn't re-build.  Ever.  17 yrs is quite a bit of evidence. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to them doing a full re-build of the team, actually I have no preference either way.  I'm simply guessing at what they might do, and to what extent.  My honest opionion is that Lee is untradeable at this point.  Whether he's pressing to prove his worth to the Astros mgmt or he's mailing it in to kill any possible trade interest, I can't say.  At this point, it's irrelevant.  It is what it is.  This could spawn off an entirely different topic.  But the one thought I can't escape is if Lee is done, physically, the Astros will not be competitive for the duration of his contract, if not longer. 

[Froback]

One caveat to that, if they'll take Lee with Oswalt, I'd see that as a win/win.  Clearing 32mil in payroll is not a sacrifice of the future.  That would let them go after a big FA (such as Crawford or even Cliff Lee) and come out neutral on money.  The key is finding someone who wants to come to Houston and is willing to be part of a youth over-haul.  It's been stated before, but at some point they have to cut bait on this season.  That will allow them to promote Chris Johnson, and maybe others, to see exactly what they have and, subsequently, what they will need during the offseason.

   While I love the idea of Crawford in Houston, I can't help but think... "That is how we got into this mess, signing big $$ players and losing top draft picks along with it."

   The team needs to keep on the path toward rebuilding.  The reality is that it started when Wade came in and had his first draft.  Rebuilding doesn't always happen at the ML level.  It starts first in the minors and having good drafts.  If you give up 1st and 2nd round picks to sign FAs you better be in a position to make a run at the ML level or you are just prolonging the rebuilding process.  Dragging it out far longer than is required to comlpete.

   So the Astros need to say NO to all top FAs until they are just that one player or two away from making their next run.  Trading away Lee, Oswalt, Berkman or whom ever can speed up the process by adding more talent to your minor league system outside of the draft.  You should NOT be looking at signing anything more than journeyman or short term vets to help the process along.  People like Blum are ideal, because they can both be a bench player and a good mentor for how to play the game the right way.

   If you want the Astros to be good again, given their current situation, you have to let them fill from within (and likely struggle along the way) until you find some cornerstone players who you acquire via trade or come up through your system (or both).  Remember the Astros got good not from FAs signed, but from building from within (Biggio, Bagwell, Oswalt, etc.).

   Wishing or hoping they could have done this WHILE they were still winning thus allowing them to continue the legacy is a moot point now.

[matadorph]

 

Wishing or hoping they could have done this WHILE they were still winning thus allowing them to continue the legacy is a moot point now.

Just don't tell the braying nimrods who gorvel The Hun's schlong about the guys Gerry took at the top of the draft from, oh, 1999-2004. For all the criticism the brass gets for a thin farm system, virtually none of it touches Gerry Hunsicker.

[Andyzipp]

Just don't tell the braying nimrods who gorvel The Hun's schlong about the guys Gerry took at the top of the draft from, oh, 1999-2004. For all the criticism the brass gets for a thin farm system, virtually none of it touches Gerry Hunsicker.

Hunsicker made mistakes, especially towards the end of his tenure, but he was also operating under the financial constraints of an owner who clearly didn't understand the draft, or player development or anything that didn't sell hot dogs *that* season.

[dirty steve]

Drew Sharp weighs in on the Tigers interest on Roy:
http://www.freep.com/article/20100530/COL08/5300430/1354/SPORTS/Oswalts-worth-the-risk-for-Tigers
it makes sense with Willis' DFA and Scherzer's demotion.  not sure what the Tigers have that would interest the Wade and Heck. 
i know the Granderson and Edwin Jackson deals replenished things a bit.

[Ron Brand]

I doubt that Roy would consider Detroit, but more suitors is always good.

[Lurch]

I doubt that Roy would consider Detroit

Homes are sold by the dozen

[Randy Watson]

Not to beat a dead horse (or kick a man when he's down), but this is a key difference between Wade and Purpura.  I realize the comical writers are obliged to take cheap shots at wade.  But so far, I have no reason to dislike the job Wade has done as GM.  Hell, his moves make perfect sense given the owner/pres of business operations and the team/system that came with the job. 

I think Wade is doing a nice job.  The mess he inherited is not his fault.  But I hate that he signs average to bad players to free agent deals.

I'm talking about Pedro Feliz and Kaz Matsui.  Why sign them?  We weren't close to winning anything without them.  Why not play a cheap rookie and spend the money on draft picks?

[MRaup]

Homes are sold by the dozen

And Roy DOES own a bullbozer...

[MusicMan]

BP today speculates that with the Kendry Morales injury, the Angels could try for a blockbuster to get both Oswalt and Berkman.

[chuck]

BP today speculates that with the Kendry Morales injury, the Angels could try for a blockbuster to get both Oswalt and Berkman.

Sold. A couple of days ago when some national people were saying that there simply isn't a market for Oswalt I was thinking that if there are five teams to which Roy might accept a trade there is no way in hell there are going to be 25 healthy starting pitchers among them between now and the end of July. Hell, the Angels can't even keep a first baseman healthy.

[BUWebguy]

Sold. A couple of days ago when some national people were saying that there simply isn't a market for Oswalt I was thinking that if there are five teams to which Roy might accept a trade there is no way in hell there are going to be 25 healthy starting pitchers among them between now and the end of July. Hell, the Angels can't even keep a first baseman healthy.

The Astros almost lost an even more valuable piece in similar fashion:

Astros general manager Ed Wade, reflecting on the injury to Morales, says right-hander Roy Oswalt had his own scary moment while celebrating a walkoff homer by Carlos Lee on May 5. Oswalt, Wade says, was standing behind pitcher Bud Norris as the Astros prepared to greet Lee. Norris reared back as Lee crossed the plate and caught Oswalt’s thumb. Oswalt, walking back to the clubhouse, told pitching coach Brad Arnsberg that he thought his thumb was broken. It wasn’t, but Oswalt was sore for some time afterward.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/kendry-morales-injury-not-only-los-angeles-angels-problem-053110

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I think Wade is doing a nice job.  The mess he inherited is not his fault.  But I hate that he signs average to bad players to free agent deals.

I'm talking about Pedro Feliz and Kaz Matsui.  Why sign them?  We weren't close to winning anything without them.  Why not play a cheap rookie and spend the money on draft picks?

For me, that assumes Wade has full discretion. No owner, or more specifically President of Business Operations, chiming in on the baseball operations.  That said, i also can't argue that having CJ in the majors was the right thing to do either.

Where I will join in questioning the GM is when they require an over-whelming and irrefutable argument before benching one of those marginal FA's.  Keppinger was showing signs of being a better 2B option last year, yet Kaz got most of the starts.  And why Navarro was called up instead of giving Johnson a couple starts is beyond me.  The clock is already ticking on him and all indications are they are going to burn an option year this year.  But that is also me on the outside, arm-chair quarter-backing folks who do this for a living.  

[geezerdonk]

BP today speculates that with the Kendry Morales injury, the Angels could try for a blockbuster to get both Oswalt and Berkman.

I would love to see it, but aren't Berkman and Oswalt owed something like $40 million for the rest of this year and the next? Wouldn't the Astros have to pick up a big chunk of that? Assuming that the parties could make the money work, what players would the Angels be willing to give in return?

[Ron Brand]

I would love to see it, but aren't Berkman and Oswalt owed something like $40 million for the rest of this year and the next? Wouldn't the Astros have to pick up a big chunk of that? Assuming that the parties could make the money work, what players would the Angels be willing to give in return?

It's BP, man! I'm sure there are a half-dozen MWAR guys in the Angels organization that will help the Astros make the playoffs next year!

BP reminds me a lot of those outfits that sell Secrets of Predicting Lottery Results or some such. Bill James must have some odd feelings about being Frankenstein.

[Noe]

Sold. A couple of days ago when some national people were saying that there simply isn't a market for Oswalt I was thinking that if there are five teams to which Roy might accept a trade there is no way in hell there are going to be 25 healthy starting pitchers among them between now and the end of July. Hell, the Angels can't even keep a first baseman healthy.

The fact that the Atlanta Braves are 1) red-hot right now, 2) the Phillies are not, and 3) the NL East is becoming the closest race in all of the MLB, then you'd assume that a market value for Oswalt in one of his preferred teams is a very good fit right now.  Imagine this, Bobby Cox going out with one more World Series ring, also Chipper Jones.  Oswalt joins Lowe, Hanson, Hudson to make a feared rotation.  Basically, he and his Bravo mates can become the same version of the 2008 St. Louis Cardinals team that won it all because of pitching.

I think the market is shaping up, not down when it comes to Oswalt.

[Noe]

BP today speculates that with the Kendry Morales injury, the Angels could try for a blockbuster to get both Oswalt and Berkman.

One thing I like about this speculation is that this sort of bold move would make the Angels one of the better teams in the AL, not just the West where everyone expects the Rangers to run away with it.  If the Angels are serious about this sort of bold move, then the Rangers would be very concerned and of course so might be the Rays, Yankees, Red Sox and Twins.  Oswalt would replace the departed Lackey, Berkman the broken leg Morales.  And with Scocia preaching NL ball, this would be a good fit for the duo too (not to mention days off for Berkman from being on the field and hitting as the DH on occasion).

[MusicMan]

I also like the general idea, in that Berkman and Oswalt both might be more likely to accept a trade if it were a package deal.

[Trey]

I also like the general idea, in that Berkman and Oswalt both might be more likely to accept a trade if it were a package deal.

Not disagreeing necessarily, but quotes recently would seem to indicate that they aren't all buddy-buddy.

[hostros7]

One thing I like about this speculation is that this sort of bold move would make the Angels one of the better teams in the AL, not just the West where everyone expects the Rangers to run away with it.  If the Angels are serious about this sort of bold move, then the Rangers would be very concerned and of course so might be the Rays, Yankees, Red Sox and Twins.  Oswalt would replace the departed Lackey, Berkman the broken leg Morales.  And with Scocia preaching NL ball, this would be a good fit for the duo too (not to mention days off for Berkman from being on the field and hitting as the DH on occasion).

I liked one scenario that had Berkman and Oswalt going to the Giants for Cain, Bumgarner, and 2-3 position prospects.  It was just posted on a blog somewhere, so it was at least as credible as Richard Justice.

[Froback]

I liked one scenario that had Berkman and Oswalt going to the Giants for Cain, Bumgarner, and 2-3 position prospects.  It was just posted on a blog somewhere, so it was at least as credible as Richard Justice.

If it came from a pixie panda it would be MORE credible than big dick Justice.

[Matt]

One thing I like about this speculation is that this sort of bold move would make the Angels one of the better teams in the AL, not just the West where everyone expects the Rangers to run away with it.  If the Angels are serious about this sort of bold move, then the Rangers would be very concerned and of course so might be the Rays, Yankees, Red Sox and Twins.  Oswalt would replace the departed Lackey, Berkman the broken leg Morales.  And with Scocia preaching NL ball, this would be a good fit for the duo too (not to mention days off for Berkman from being on the field and hitting as the DH on occasion).

The Angels do not like the idea of losing the division to anyone, especially the Rangers. They've had a strong grip on it for years with higher aspirations and Moreno isn't one to shy away from bold moves when he's got a pretty heavily stocked farm system.

[Noe]

I liked one scenario that had Berkman and Oswalt going to the Giants for Cain, Bumgarner, and 2-3 position prospects.  It was just posted on a blog somewhere, so it was at least as credible as Richard Justice.

On a side note: The Freak isn't looking like the all-world pitcher he's purported to be.  In fact, he looks downright average lately.  Even on Opening Day, I thought the guy threw well, but not dominating or anything close to that.  I can see teams knocking him around for four runs per game easily.  Oh and it's funny to me that when a team like the Jints swears they will not bring up their young phenom catcher (Posey) because he needs the grooming in AAA.  It only took a few weeks after they said that to 1) bring him up and 2) put him on first base.  Posey, by the way, was drafted the same year as Castro.

[Noe]

The Angels do not like the idea of losing the division to anyone, especially the Rangers. They've had a strong grip on it for years with higher aspirations and Moreno isn't one to shy away from bold moves when he's got a pretty heavily stocked farm system.

This is how markets are created.

[MusicMan]

Not disagreeing necessarily, but quotes recently would seem to indicate that they aren't all buddy-buddy.

Not from a buddy-buddy perspective; from the perspective that any team going after both would HAVE to be a contender.

[Hornstros]

The Angels do not like the idea of losing the division to anyone, especially the Rangers. They've had a strong grip on it for years with higher aspirations and Moreno isn't one to shy away from bold moves when he's got a pretty heavily stocked farm system.

The Angels are probably more willing than usual to unload some prospects right now as they have 5 of the top 40 picks in next week's draft

[OregonStrosFan]

I would love to see it, but aren't Berkman and Oswalt owed something like $40 million for the rest of this year and the next?

Berkman makes $14.5M this season with a $15M club option for 2011 ($2M buyout).  Oswalt makes $15M this season. $16M in 2011 and has a $16M club option for 2012 ($2M buyout).  Presuming neither options are picked up, $40M is a good rough estimate on what it would cost 'em over the next 2 years ($22M'ish, inc. Berkman buyout, for Berkman and Roy this season and $18M, inc. Oswalt buyout, for Roy 2011). 

[Matt]

The Angels are probably more willing than usual to unload some prospects right now as they have 5 of the top 40 picks in next week's draft

Berkman's gonna have to pick it up a bit though to get them past their love affair with Paul Konerko.

[OregonStrosFan]

MLBTR saying that Roy would consider a trade to the Natinals.  LINK

[AtascAstro]

Sorry if Cabrera already picked his 3 teams...


Yahoo rumors that Roy has limited it to 3 teams:  Phillies, Yanks, Jakes.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080

Hope this isn't actually tied to Roy or his camp, because otherwise he's a giant turd.  The market is aware of your availability, now let the GMs do their work and allow the Astros to manage the perception.  Thanks for reminding us that it is all about you, Roy.

[JimR]

Sorry if Cabrera already picked his 3 teams...


Yahoo rumors that Roy has limited it to 3 teams:  Phillies, Yanks, Jakes.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080

Hope this isn't actually tied to Roy or his camp, because otherwise he's a giant turd.  The market is aware of your availability, now let the GMs do their work and allow the Astros to manage the perception.  Thanks for reminding us that it is all about you, Roy.

"because otherwise he's a giant turd"

and has been for quite some time

[Bench]

Not disagreeing necessarily, but quotes recently would seem to indicate that they aren't all buddy-buddy.

Berkman with a backhanded swipe at Roy with his compliment of Myers:

"He has a perfect attitude for what you're looking for in a pitcher. If he loses 2-1 win, he's always blaming himself and takes responsibility. He's a competitor and not scared to throw the ball over the plate. I just think he's a great addition to this team."

Tag's Lines

[JimR]

Berkman with a backhanded swipe at Roy with his compliment of Myers:

"He has a perfect attitude for what you're looking for in a pitcher. If he loses 2-1 win, he's always blaming himself and takes responsibility. He's a competitor and not scared to throw the ball over the plate. I just think he's a great addition to this team."

Tag's Lines

that's what i thought, too. especially the second comment.

[astrosfan76]

Sorry if Cabrera already picked his 3 teams...


Yahoo rumors that Roy has limited it to 3 teams:  Phillies, Yanks, Jakes.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080

Hope this isn't actually tied to Roy or his camp, because otherwise he's a giant turd.  The market is aware of your availability, now let the GMs do their work and allow the Astros to manage the perception.  Thanks for reminding us that it is all about you, Roy.

That wouldn't jive with his quotes about being willing to play for Washington, though.  Perhaps, he was just being polite in the interview, but that's quite a drop from Phillies-Yanks-Cards to Nationals.  The Yahoo rumor and the Washington Post article can't both be right.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2010/06/roy_oswalt_would_accept_trade.html

[Bench]

That wouldn't jive with his quotes about being willing to play for Washington, though.  Perhaps, he was just being polite in the interview, but that's quite a drop from Phillies-Yanks-Cards to Nationals.  The Yahoo rumor and the Washington Post article can't both be right.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2010/06/roy_oswalt_would_accept_trade.html

Footer tweeted yesterday that Roy said he'd go "anywhere" to contend.

[Jacksonian]

Sorry if Cabrera already picked his 3 teams...


Yahoo rumors that Roy has limited it to 3 teams:  Phillies, Yanks, Jakes.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080

Hope this isn't actually tied to Roy or his camp, because otherwise he's a giant turd.  The market is aware of your availability, now let the GMs do their work and allow the Astros to manage the perception.  Thanks for reminding us that it is all about you, Roy.

Go to the aol fanhouse article linked in that yahoo article and here's the quote: "• An official from another team said word going around is that Roy Oswalt would approve a trade only to the Phillies, Yankees or Cardinals."

Rumors of rumors suddenly become fact.

[Outlawscotty]

Footer tweeted yesterday that Roy said he'd go "anywhere" to contend.

Good.  Go to Hell and 'contend' with the heat.

[OregonStrosFan]

Berkman with a backhanded swipe at Roy with his compliment of Myers:

"He has a perfect attitude for what you're looking for in a pitcher. If he loses 2-1 win, he's always blaming himself and takes responsibility. He's a competitor and not scared to throw the ball over the plate. I just think he's a great addition to this team."

Tag's Lines

It would have been cool if Cabrera had posted this link on the front page...

[AtascAstro]

Good.  Go to Hell and 'contend' with the heat.

well played, sir

[Bench]

It would have been cool if Cabrera had posted this link on the front page...

If Cabrera is now a front page, he'll never be mentioned again.

[BlownRanger]

Cliff Lee went in the offseason, 1 year remaining, for 3 minor leaguers, all highly regarded.
Roy Halladay went in the offseason, and then renegotiated, for 3 of the Phillies' top 5 minor leaguers.
Jake Peavy went midseason for 4 players, 3 of them high-level pitchers.
and the last time Wade dealt an ace:
Schilling went for Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Travis Lee, and Vicente Padilla (yikes!)

And all three of those recent trades could end up smelling just as bad as the Schilling deal.  Even if the fear of seeing Roy on a potential post-season opponent generates the hot market that Noe describes, these "move your proven stud(s) for a bucket of highly regarded prospects" deals are always a crap shoot.  Regardless of the GM pulling the trigger, the majority of the HRPs fail to approach the potential that's seen at the time of the deal.

Woodward was villified when he traded the Big Unit for Garcia, Guillen, and Halama, but the return on that trade ended up way above the average for these sorts of deals.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Woodward was villified when he traded the Big Unit for Garcia, Guillen, and Halama, but the return on that trade ended up way above the average for these sorts of deals.

Cleveland also did well when they traded Bartolo Colon to Montreal for Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Brandon Phillips.

[MusicMan]

Bartolo Colon to Montreal for Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Brandon Phillips.

I swear to god I just started salivating when I read this.

[Matt]

I swear to god I just started salivating when I read this.

Somewhere, Bartolo is salivating right now too.

[Limey]

Somewhere, Bartolo is salivating right now too.

Nice.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

From Stan McNeal article about deadline trade candidates:

If a club comes calling for Carlos Lee, however, it could have him for his contract. Lee is due $18.5 million a year through 2012 and, according to a scout, "looks like he doesn't even care." (I will second that opinion. In an early season game at Busch Stadium, Lee strolled into the Astros' clubhouse about 10 minutes before stretching -- long after the rest of his teammates already had dressed).

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2010-06-02/trade-talk-10-players-likely-be-moved-deadline

He also speculates Oswalt will fetch a couple front line prospects. 

[MusicMan]

"Every time he goes out there," said one scout, "he's basically telling you, 'I'm finished here.' He's frustrated, and he's making it very obvious to everyone."

Opposing scout on Roy

[JimR]

Opposing scout on Roy

that may be my friend. he told me almost the same thing a couple of weeks ago, including "his body language is terrible."

[OregonStrosFan]

Lastings Millege v 2.0: Rosenthal Link

The Mets are so high on rookie infielder Ruben Tejada, their fill-in second baseman for the injured Luis Castillo, that they'd be reluctant to include him in a trade for a pitcher such as Astros right-hander Roy Oswalt.

[chuck]

Lastings Millege v 2.0: Rosenthal Link

The Mets are so high on rookie infielder Ruben Tejada, their fill-in second baseman for the injured Luis Castillo, that they'd be reluctant to include him in a trade for a pitcher such as Astros right-hander Roy Oswalt.

Tejada's a fantastic infielder who can definitely play short too.

[Bench]

From Olney's PPB:

Heard this: There are no ongoing Roy Oswalt trade talks.

[OregonStrosFan]

Footer (via Twitter):

NY media surrounding Roy, asking about trade request. Obviously they're trying to figure out if he wants Yankees. Roy taking high road.  Roy's keeping it general. Wants to play for contender, focus now is helping Astros win, trade would help both him and Astros,blah blah blah.  Roy says he doesn't care which league he pitches in. Admits he'd like to see how he'd do in AL, seeing everyone thinks it's harder than NL.  Tomorrows headlines, of course, will scream OSWALT LOVES NY, WANTS YANKS, MISSES PETITTE. So prepare yourselves now.

[hostros7]

I'm more concerned this recent "success"the team has had will convinced drayton to hold 'em. 

[BudGirl]

Just remind Drayton that this is still the same team, minus Matsui, that has had 2 8-game losing streaks this season.

[moriartp]

Just remind Drayton that this is still the same team, minus Matsui, that has had 2 8-game losing streaks this season.

Yeah, but not counting those aberrations they're 25-21. That amounts to a competitive winning percentage in the perpetually weak NL central. And don't forget that this team's stars are the same who took them to the World Series in 2005. And Pedro Feliz is a reliable 80 RBI man. This is a championship-level team. And while I'm in this fantasy land, can I get an Altoids blowjob from Scarlett Johansson while riding a unicorn?

[Limey]

And while I'm in this fantasy land, can I get an Altoids blowjob from Scarlett Johansson while riding a unicorn?

I'll be in my bunk.

[Matt]

Yeah, but not counting those aberrations they're 25-21. That amounts to a competitive winning percentage in the perpetually weak NL central. And don't forget that this team's stars are the same who took them to the World Series in 2005. And Pedro Feliz is a reliable 80 RBI man. This is a championship-level team. And while I'm in this fantasy land, can I get an Altoids blowjob from Scarlett Johansson while riding a unicorn?

Can we get some fan art?

[Andyzipp]

And while I'm in this fantasy land, can I get an Altoids blowjob from Scarlett Johansson while riding a unicorn?

Curiously Strong.

[dirty steve]

if one had to pick, what would you choose to take lesser prospects in return for the salary relief, or assume more financial responsibility and get a higher pedigree of talent in return?  it's not my money, but to me it seems to be more about restocking the farm system, so if i had to assume some of financial responsibility i'd do that.

[austro]

if one had to pick, what would you choose to take lesser prospects in return for the salary relief, or assume more financial responsibility and get a higher pedigree of talent in return?  it's not my money, but to me it seems to be more about restocking the farm system, so if i had to assume some of financial responsibility i'd do that.

If the difference between getting one serious prospect or two is picking up, say, 50% of Roy's salary for the next two years, I'd pick up the salary. Of course, my definition of "serious" is somebody who has shown seriously above-league-average performance at AA. So I may be completely unreasonable.

[Bench]

And while I'm in this fantasy land, can I get an Altoids blowjob from Scarlett Johansson while riding a unicorn?

Even Charley wants to believe.

[OregonStrosFan]

Roy to be a stRanger? LINK

A major league source is telling me that the Rangers have been talking to the Astros about Roy Oswalt and that the teams are "getting closer" to having a deal in place.  It's not yet clear which player(s) would be coming back from Texas to Houston, but my understanding is that the live bodies part of the deal is more or less agreed to.

But in place is not the same thing as done: the sticking point: the Rangers are trying to convince Major League Baseball -- who holds the purse strings until the sale of the Rangers is complete -- to allow them to take on Oswalt's salary.

[MusicMan]

Roy to be a stRanger? LINK

A major league source is telling me that the Rangers have been talking to the Astros about Roy Oswalt and that the teams are "getting closer" to having a deal in place.  It's not yet clear which player(s) would be coming back from Texas to Houston, but my understanding is that the live bodies part of the deal is more or less agreed to.

But in place is not the same thing as done: the sticking point: the Rangers are trying to convince Major League Baseball -- who holds the purse strings until the sale of the Rangers is complete -- to allow them to take on Oswalt's salary.

Thank God.  The near-conclusion of conference realignment has left me needing something to frantically follow misleading rumors on.

[OregonStrosFan]

Thank God.  The near-conclusion of conference realignment has left me needing something to frantically follow misleading rumors on.

How bout this one then:

BREAKING NEWS: BIG12 sources claim BIG10 sources are actually SEC sources in disguise.

[moriartp]

Olney hears there's nothing to the report. I'm stunned.

[dirty steve]

Olney hears there's nothing to the report. I'm stunned.

right...because ESPN never poaches a story and then takes credit for the discovery.

[AtascAstro]

How bout this one then:

BREAKING NEWS: BIG12 sources claim BIG10 sources are actually SEC sources in disguise.

Brilliant...I imagine the disguise to be something like this

[MRaup]

Brilliant...I imagine the disguise to be something like this

This is probably closer to the truth.

[chuck]

This is probably closer to the truth.

That's one of those rare things that for some strange reason just never gets less funny over time.

[MRaup]

That's one of those rare things that for some strange reason just never gets less funny over time.

The tape mustache kills me every time I see it.

I can't help but laugh, despite how much of a moron I think Bobby Valentine is.

[Alkie]

The tape mustache kills me every time I see it.

I can't help but laugh, despite how much of a moron I think Bobby Valentine is.

Bobby Valentine?   No, no, monsieur.   Zat is Bubby Valenzuela. 

[Limey]

This is probably closer to the truth.

Why oh why has no one gone with this?  Do I have to do all the easy lifting around here?

[JaneDoe]

Why oh why has no one gone with this?  Do I have to do all the easy lifting around here?

Forget the BBQ.  I'm not hungry anymore.  I think I'm gonna be sick.

[Alkie]

Forget the BBQ.  I'm not hungry anymore.  I think I'm gonna be sick.

Jews in ball slings ain't doin' it for ya?

[Ron Brand]

Jews in ball slings ain't doin' it for ya?

Just be sure you grab 'em by the horns.

[JaneDoe]

Jews in ball slings ain't doin' it for ya?

We can't all be like you Alkie.

[austro]

We can't all be like you Alkie.

Especially not the women folk.

[Alkie]

We can't all be like you Alkie.

Are you suggesting I'm the incredibly attractive person in that picture or that I'm the person who would find that person incredibly attractive?

[JaneDoe]

Are you suggesting I'm the incredibly attractive person in that picture or that I'm the person who would find that person incredibly attractive?

Yes.

[NeilT]

Are you suggesting I'm the incredibly attractive person in that picture or that I'm the person who would find that person incredibly attractive?

I think he's suggesting you like good socks.

[Bench]

Evidently something happened in the Rangers' bankruptcy proceeding today that makes any trade unlikely.

According to OlneyTweet:  The judge's decision today on the Rangers' creditors is viewed by execs in baseball as a big blow to the team's efforts to trade pre-Aug. 1. 1 club exec said: "The Rangers can forget about Roy Oswalt, and maybe just about any other major player." Rivals don't want them spending dollars at a time when they owe MLB a lot of money.

[matadorph]

With all the Roy-to-the-Rangers trade rumors swirling lately, I've become distracted at times by the possibility of this going down and have wondered what the Astros might get in return. My curiosity led me to various Rangers forums like Baseball Time in Arlington, LonestarBall, and the Newberg Report. If I've learned anything from my sojourns north up the internet I-45, it is this: Rangers fans are just as pompously idiotic as the fuckheads posting on certain Astros forums.

Where a large segment of the Astros fanbase is relentlessly pessimistic about the State of the Farm, an equivalent segment exists in stRangerville that is completely and totally enamored with their farm system. They are convinced that 19-yr-old LHP Martin Perez (5.67 ERA in the Texas League) and relief pitcher Tanner Scheppers are basically untouchable prospects whose futures are studded with diamonds and unicorns. In their world Jon Daniels would be a goddamned fool for including either one or both of them in any package for Roy Oswalt because Roy Oswalt is 32 and due a lot of money for the remaining two years on his contract. (Even though the club could opt out of the final year for 2 mm). Most of them want Cliff Lee and predictably think that Oswalt can be had for two or three B- prospects because he's not anywhere close to Lee's caliber of pitcher. They say Roy is an NL pitcher whose production is destined to decline in the hitterific AL, even though his career interleague numbers do not support that argument. They say he's an aging pitcher with a significant injury risk, even though he's pitched an average of 222 innings over the course of his career and has never suffered a major injury and is notorious for ratcheting up his game in the second-half of the season. They say he is not anywhere close to Lee.

What. the. fuck.

Cliff Lee is a very good pitcher, but so is Roy Oswalt. We're talking about a playoff-tested starting pitcher (and NLCS MVP) with a career 3.22 ERA, fourth-best among active starters, and he's somehow worth a package of non-elite prospects because he's due some big money over the next two seasons? You have gotta be shitting me.

Sure, the Rangers could go after Lee, but trading for him is trading for a half-season rental because he will command huge money on the open market and almost certainly will sign elsewhere next year. Trading for Oswalt, on the other hand, may be costly in both dollars and prospects, but the likelihood of a return on the investment is greater imo because he'd give the franchise two chances to make a run at the World Series. If I'm a Ranger fan, I make that trade every day of the week. These opportunities don't present themselves very often. Remember, we're talking about a team and a fanbase that has experienced exactly ZERO playoff series wins. In fact, the Rangers have won a grand total of ONE playoff game in franchise history.
If there is any fanbase that should understand, it's Rangers fans.

Then again, they're Dallasites.

[matadorph]

Evidently something happened in the Rangers' bankruptcy proceeding today that makes any trade unlikely.

According to OlneyTweet:  The judge's decision today on the Rangers' creditors is viewed by execs in baseball as a big blow to the team's efforts to trade pre-Aug. 1. 1 club exec said: "The Rangers can forget about Roy Oswalt, and maybe just about any other major player." Rivals don't want them spending dollars at a time when they owe MLB a lot of money.

From everything I read in the aftermath of the judge's ruling, Olney jumped the gun on that one. I doubt the ruling will prove to be anything more than a minor hiccup in the sale process.

Chuck Greenberg is already making a lot of noise about the court expediting the process so the team can get on with its (trade deadline) business.

[OregonStrosFan]

Sure, the Rangers could go after Lee, but trading for him is trading for a half-season rental because he will command huge money on the open market and almost certainly will sign elsewhere next year. Trading for Oswalt, on the other hand, may be costly in both dollars and prospects, but the likelihood of a return on the investment is greater imo because he'd give the franchise two chances to make a run at the World Series. If I'm a Ranger fan, I make that trade every day of the week

The argument that somehow 0.5 seasons of Lee is better for a team than potentially 2.5 seasons of Oswalt is one that I continually hear raised, but understand the least (well that, and the seeming belief that he's injury prone or somehow not durable).  And it's not just Ranger fans, but most of the 'in guys' in the national media (you know the guys, Astros suck, Wade is an idiot, McLane is a cheapskate...).  

Dropping a butt-load of prospects for a half-season for Lee is a great idea ('cause, you know, he's Cliff Lee plus he will net a couple of extra picks in the 2011 draft), but doing so for 1.5 (potentially 2.5) seasons for Oswalt is crazy? And it's crazy because he's an injury risk and expensive (and oh yeah, he plays for Houston and the Astros suck and the Astros FO and owner are stupid, but that is all implied of course).  

So let's talk about Roy being 'expensive.'  Roy, though no longer among 'the most' elite pitchers in the game certainly remains 'an' elite pitcher. What exactly would he bring in the open market for a 1-year contract in 2011 (or even for a 2-year contract if you add the time a team could control him). $10M?  No problem at all.  $12M?  Surely.  $14M? Possibly.  $16M? Doesn't seem real likely with the financial crunch teams claim they are in, but a weak maybe.  How about 2 years, $24M?  Seems pretty doable as well.  So what, we're talking 'maybe' overpaying him $4M a year for 1-2 years, and that presumes a team wouldn't get any salary relief in the trade.  If it gets you to the playoffs? BFD!  

Sure, in the current baseball economy $16M (or potentially $32M) might sound like a lot, especially when a lot of teams are trying to cut salary, but go try to sign 'an' Oswalt on the open market for 1 year $15M. Not happening. Or try to sign an elite pitcher for 2 years, $30M.  Not happening.  So Oswalt may cost some more money and a couple more prospects.  Again, BFD, you get him for potentially 2.5 years (and whether you keep him for that last year is entirely your choice).  Put another way, you get '2nd half Roy' for 3 seasons.  Like I said, the argument just does not make sense to me...  [/rant]

[OregonStrosFan]

From everything I read in the aftermath of the judge's ruling, Olney jumped the gun on that one.

I know what the national media thinks the ruling says, but am not sold at all on their theories as to its meaning.  My guess is whatever the opinion actually said, it really meant "the sides better come to an agreement, and do it expeditiously, because if you don't I am going to clean this crap up and no one is going to be real happy with my methods..."

[matadorph]

So let's talk about Roy being 'expensive.'  Roy, though no longer among 'the most' elite pitchers in the game certainly remains 'an' elite pitcher. What exactly would he bring in the open market for a 1-year contract in 2011 (or even for a 2-year contract if you add the time a team could control him). $10M?  No problem at all.  $12M?  Surely.  $14M? Possibly.  $16M? Doesn't seem real likely with the financial crunch teams claim they are in, but a weak maybe.  How about 2 years, $24M?  Seems pretty doable as well.  So what, we're talking 'maybe' overpaying him $4M a year for 1-2 years, and that presumes a team wouldn't get any salary relief in the trade.  If it gets you to the playoffs? BFD!  

Sure, in the current baseball economy $16M (or potentially $32M) might sound like a lot, especially when a lot of teams are trying to cut salary, but go try to sign 'an' Oswalt on the open market for 1 year $15M. Not happening. Or try to sign an elite pitcher for 2 years, $30M.  Not happening.  So Oswalt may cost some more money and a couple more prospects.  Again, BFD, you get him for potentially 2.5 years (and whether you keep him for that last year is entirely your choice).  Put another way, you get '2nd half Roy' for 3 seasons.  Like I said, the argument just does not make sense to me...  [/rant]

I'm right there with ya, OSF. The argument makes little sense to me, either. I think the reason so many are quick to dismiss Roy's value on the mound is they're not taking the time to actually look at his career numbers against Cliff Lee's.

Here's a good example of this, courtesy of Jamey Newberg.

1. Sure, you’d get draft pick compensation a year later on Oswalt, but right now Lee is a solid Type A free agent while Oswalt is a Type B – if Oswalt stays in that territory over the next year and a half of baseball (will he really get better?), then he’s going to kick back a supplemental first when he leaves via free agency (purportedly to return to Houston), rather than the first-rounder plus supplemental first that Lee is sure to bring. So with Oswalt you’d get the compensation a year later – and probably a first-round pick less.

2. Lee is a better pitcher.

All that ignores another obvious point – that Lee makes $9 million in 2010, while Oswalt makes $15 million. That means Lee will earn $3 million over the final two months this season, and Oswalt $5 million.

That $2 million difference isn’t all that significant – if you were getting an equal or better pitcher, that is, which I don’t think Oswalt is.

Crazy talk. On what planet would Roy Oswalt not be a Type A free agent? On what planet is he not in the top 20% of starting pitchers? Aside from Tim Hudson, has there been a more underrated pitcher in baseball over the last ten years than Roy Oswalt?

[moriartp]

Crazy talk. On what planet would Roy Oswalt not be a Type A free agent? On what planet is he not in the top 20% of starting pitchers? Aside from Tim Hudson, has there been a more underrated pitcher in baseball over the last ten years than Roy Oswalt?

He would currently rank as a Type B, but he's not far off from reaching Type A status. If he finishes the season at his current pace and puts up roughly the same numbers next year, he'd certainly be a Type A.

[matadorph]

He would currently rank as a Type B, but he's not far off from reaching Type A status. If he finishes the season at his current pace and puts up roughly the same numbers next year, he'd certainly be a Type A.

How is he a Type B right now? Type A players are those who Elias ranks in the top 20% of their respective positions over a two-year period. If John Lackey was a Type A last year and Randy Wolf was a Type A, then Roy Freakin Oswalt is definitely a Type A.

[JimR]

I'm right there with ya, OSF. The argument makes little sense to me, either. I think the reason so many are quick to dismiss Roy's value on the mound is they're not taking the time to actually look at his career numbers against Cliff Lee's.

Here's a good example of this, courtesy of Jamey Newberg.

Crazy talk. On what planet would Roy Oswalt not be a Type A free agent? On what planet is he not in the top 20% of starting pitchers? Aside from Tim Hudson, has there been a more underrated pitcher in baseball over the last ten years than Roy Oswalt?

did you mean to say overrated? that is what i think of him, at least in the last few years..

[Noe]

I'd trade for Cliff Lee over Oswalt, but saying Oswalt is not going to be a good choice to make a trade for is stupid.  What happens to a team who says to itself: No Oswalt... Lee or bust.  Well, if someone else gets Lee, you're telling me you're going to low-ball an offer for Oswalt because you basically don't want him the way you want Lee?

That's stupid talking right there.

[moriartp]

How is he a Type B right now? Type A players are those who Elias ranks in the top 20% of their respective positions over a two-year period. If John Lackey was a Type A last year and Randy Wolf was a Type A, then Roy Freakin Oswalt is definitely a Type A.

Just going by the numbers. Starters are ranked by innings pitched, win-loss ratio, ERA, strikeouts, and a couple of other things. The lack of wins and relatively low strikeout total last season are holding him back at the moment.

[JimR]

Just going by the numbers. Starters are ranked by innings pitched, win-loss ratio, ERA, strikeouts, and a couple of other things. The lack of wins and relatively low strikeout total last season are holding him back at the moment.

i'm going by Oswalt innings and failure to finish (not talking about complete games).

[OregonStrosFan]

So what exactly does a Federal Court Judge sound like when he's pissed off?

Your answer here.

“You need to understand that this court will decide whether to approve this plan ... and will not decide based on what the fans want ... what the media wants ... what Mr. Nolan and Mr. Greenberg want ... or what (baseball commissioner) Bud Selig wants,” Lynn said. “If the plan fails to meet (a specific bankruptcy code), I will deny confirmation and we will be back to square one, and it will be on the head of those who supported this motion.”  “For the sake of the Rangers, I do not want to see this team stuck in Chapter 11 until this fall,” Lynn said. “You guys — not me — you guys are the ones who pushed for this (July 9 hearing).”

[matadorph]

Jon Heyman, still an idiot.

Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt are very likely to be the two biggest stars among starting pitchers on the block this trading season. Lee, a 31-year-old lefty for the Mariners, and Oswalt, the Astros' 32-year-old righty, are two excellent and accomplished pitchers who are about the same age and carry the potential to be big difference-makers for someone else this season. For this summer at least, they are inextricably linked.

Except for one thing: Lee should have big value while Oswalt just might be worth close to nothing. That's not an insult to Oswalt, just the reality of the economics of the situation...

..."At the end of the day, I don't think Houston will be able to move the entire (Oswalt) contract and get premium players back,'' sums up one AL executive. That's an opinion that's fairly widely felt, too, based on interviews.

Any team acquiring Lee would only be on the hook for about $4-to-5 million, depending on when a trade is made. Meanwhile, Oswalt comes with about a $30 million commitment. Very few teams have $30 million lying around, and those that do generally don't want to spend it.

Heyman gets it wrong again. The total commitment owed to Oswalt is not 30 million, it's the remainder of his 2010 salary + 16 mill for 2011 + 2 mill buyout. The only way Oswalt would get all that money is if the team that controls him exercises the 2012 option. Presumably they would only do so if his 2011 performance justified it. So how is his trade value worth close to nothing?

[matadorph]

Just going by the numbers. Starters are ranked by innings pitched, win-loss ratio, ERA, strikeouts, and a couple of other things. The lack of wins and relatively low strikeout total last season are holding him back at the moment.

Ah, gotcha. If he were a free agent at the end of this season I can see how he'd fall just outside the Type A cut because of his 2009 performance, but I highly doubt he'd be anything but a Type A in the following offseason. My point was about Newberg's blithe dismissiveness ("will he really get better?") of Oswalt's value. If he'd typed baseballreference.com in his browser and then entered "Roy Oswalt" in the search function he'd see that Oswalt has never been anything but a Type A throughout his career.

[Ron Brand]

Because a) gullible dumbshit reporters buy in to b) the steaming load someone is spreading that drives his value down in the marketplace. We're one hot shit pitcher from a good team going down from this being stemmed.

[Noe]

Jon Heyman, still an idiot.
So how is his trade value worth close to nothing?

So, if that *IS* the case, then why would the Astros trade him?  If a team needs an ACE to make a playoff run, then they have to pay.  End of story.  By pay, they have to pay with prospects.  Owner Drayton McLane already put out that depending on the prospects, then the Astros will listen to proposals to provide cash on the deal.  Better damn well be good to great prospects for that to happen.

I really don't understand how a club in contention that could use an ACE will low ball the Astros.  If I were Wade, I'd hang up on them until they want to talk seriously.  I understand trading for Lee, it makes sense, but only *ONE* team can consummate a deal with Seattle.  Oswalt is not sloppy seconds, he is quality option number two.  Gotta pay if you want him, so it's really stupid to read these opinions about lack of prospects that will be offered for Roy.

"Pony up or go away, we'll keep him" should be Wade's mantra.

[matadorph]

So, if that *IS* the case, then why would the Astros trade him?  If a team needs an ACE to make a playoff run, then they have to pay.  End of story.  By pay, they have to pay with prospects.  Owner Drayton McLane already put out that depending on the prospects, then the Astros will listen to proposals to provide cash on the deal.  Better damn well be good to great prospects for that to happen.

I really don't understand how a club in contention that could use an ACE will low ball the Astros.  If I were Wade, I'd hang up on them until they want to talk seriously.  I understand trading for Lee, it makes sense, but only *ONE* team can consummate a deal with Seattle.  Oswalt is not sloppy seconds, he is quality option number two.  Gotta pay if you want him, so it's really stupid to read these opinions about lack of prospects that will be offered for Roy.

"Pony up or go away, we'll keep him" should be Wade's mantra.

Yup. Many in the media and the blogs conveniently forget that the Astros actually have some leverage the M's don't--their trade bait is still under club control for the foreseeable future. The Astros can choose not to trade Oswalt before the deadline and trade him when they get their asking price.

I am amazed by the delusional responses I've read on Rangers forums. They reaaaaally reaallly reallly love their prospects, especially that Perez kid, so much so that they're putting the uncertainties that come with said prospects over the known quantity of a Roy Oswalt.

If I'm a fan of a contender that's in need of an ace starting pitcher, I trade those young unproven prospects every time if it gives my team a legitimate shot at a WS.

[Noe]

Yup. Many in the media and the blogs conveniently forget that the Astros actually have some leverage the M's don't--their trade bait is still under club control for the foreseeable future. The Astros can choose not to trade Oswalt before the deadline and trade him when they get their asking price.

DING, DING, DING!

I am amazed by the delusional responses I've read on Rangers forums. They reaaaaally reaallly reallly love their prospects, especially that Perez kid, so much so that they're putting the uncertainties that come with said prospects over the known quantity of a Roy Oswalt.

So if Cliff Lee is traded to, say.... LA... do the Ranger fans then say "Oh well, they should stand pat".  If so, they better think about this: Sabathia, Burnett, Hughes.  Then think about their own foolishness.  Championships are won by pitching and defense and just enough offense.  Some people will never learn.  Have fun repeating history stRangers!

If I'm a fan of a contender that's in need of an ace starting pitcher, I trade those young unproven prospects every time if it gives my team a legitimate shot at a WS.

And your shot at a WS is not something you can go for every year unless you spend like the Yankees.  Right now, the way folks are talking about Roy Oswalt and the Astros, if I were the GM, I'd tell them all to go screw themselves and good luck in the playoffs... all in the same breath.  One thing I don't understand... is Nolan Ryan in any way involved up there?  If so, has he lost his mind?!?!  Hey Nolan, teach those yahoos a little bit about baseball whydoncha!

[OregonStrosFan]

I am amazed by the delusional responses I've read on Rangers forums. They reaaaaally reaallly reallly love their prospects, especially that Perez kid, so much so that they're putting the uncertainties that come with said prospects over the known quantity of a Roy Oswalt.

Would it be fair to say death threats have been made should Julio Tehran be traded?

[matadorph]

Would it be fair to say death threats have been made should Julio Tehran be traded?

isn't he in the Braves org?

[OregonStrosFan]

isn't he in the Braves org?

Now you're just nitpicking...

[Don't know why I thought he was in the Rangers org. Doh!]

[matadorph]

Would it be fair to say death threats have been made should Julio Tehran Martin Perez be traded?

Oh yes. Keith Law and Kevin Goldstein have them convinced that he's the second-coming of Johan Santana. And in fairness to a couple of guys who really don't deserve fairness, he is supposedly a very good prospect. Like Lyles, he's one of the few 19-yr-olds at AA. However, Lyles has been putting up better numbers.

[dirty steve]

isn't keith law a former executive for a reason?  it's not like he was fired along with ricciardi at the end of last year.

ranger fan getting picky about what pitchers would do them better.  fantastic.  how many opportunities have they had at this.  one or two?  i'd go after the guy that i would have for another or two.  no way i'd resign to play my summers in arlington.

[Noe]

Oh yes. Keith Law and Kevin Goldstein have them convinced that he's the second-coming of Johan Santana. And in fairness to a couple of guys who really don't deserve fairness, he is supposedly a very good prospect. Like Lyles, he's one of the few 19-yr-olds at AA. However, Lyles has been putting up better numbers.

Somehow, I'm going to get a very perverse pleasure watching these stRangers (and fans) screw this chance up.  If I were Roy, I'd be insulted by the low ball offers and say to Wade "I ain't going... they don't want me... I don't want them".  Remember, Roy said that this was something he floated to McLane in order to help the Astros acquire prospects.  If he is true to his word, he'll deny waiving his no-trade and say "those are not prospects, those are suspects... is that what Nolan really *THINKS* about me?"

[matadorph]

No, Nolan has already said what he thinks about him and it's far more respectful than the nitwits who value unproven youth over proven ML experience.

"You know, we definitely are looking to improve our ballclub, and when you have an opportunity, or might have an opportunity, to acquire someone like that, you have to look at it and evaluate it and see if that's a possibility and see if it's doable," Ryan said.

"I think he's phenomenal," Ryan said. "I think he's been one of the top four or five pitchers in the league for quite a while. He's a big-game pitcher and consistent with his stuff, as we see this year, with the way he's approached each game he's been in. He's special."

Link

[Noe]

No, Nolan has already said what he thinks about him and it's far more respectful than the nitwits who value unproven youth over proven ML experience.

"You know, we definitely are looking to improve our ballclub, and when you have an opportunity, or might have an opportunity, to acquire someone like that, you have to look at it and evaluate it and see if that's a possibility and see if it's doable," Ryan said.

"I think he's phenomenal," Ryan said. "I think he's been one of the top four or five pitchers in the league for quite a while. He's a big-game pitcher and consistent with his stuff, as we see this year, with the way he's approached each game he's been in. He's special."

Link

See, that's the Nolan Ryan I remember.  Damn, he's going to take these yahoos to the playoffs with a real chance to win in spite of themselves.  Looks like it may be kicking and screaming all the way too.  Wow, baseball actually understood in the Cowboy holy ground?  Say it ain't so Nolan, say it ain't so!

[S.P. Rodriguez]

See, that's the Nolan Ryan I remember.  Damn, he's going to take these yahoos to the playoffs with a real chance to win in spite of themselves.  Looks like it may be kicking and screaming all the way too.  Wow, baseball actually understood in the Cowboy holy ground?  Say it ain't so Nolan, say it ain't so!

I can't put in words how much this notion bothers me.  This is worse that letting Nolan leave for the Rangers, as a player, and watching him inducted to the HoF as a Ranger.  It's wrong, no matter which way you cut it. 

[Ron Brand]

You can rub all you want to on McMullen's stain, but it's never going away.

[JimR]

sorry, Nolan. he ain't no big game pitcher. has not been for quite a while.

[moriartp]

sorry, Nolan. he ain't no big game pitcher. has not been for quite a while.

Shh! Don't tell him!

[matadorph]

sorry, Nolan. he ain't no big game pitcher. has not been for quite a while.

So how do you value him on the open market? What would you pay him on a two-yr deal if you were a contender in need of a starting pitcher?

[Ron Brand]

So how do you value him on the open market? What would you pay him on a two-yr deal if you were a contender in need of a starting pitcher?

He's no Phil Taylor, that's for sure.

[geezerdonk]

He was Room Service Roy last night.

[Alkie]

He's no Phil Taylor, that's for sure.

Bra.  Vo.

[MusicMan]

Bringing up Oswalt trade rumors... this, unfortunately, has the smell of truth:

Acquiring Roy Oswalt would apparently cost a great deal. Word is that the Astros would not only make the acquiring team pay all of Oswalt's salary -- the rest of his $15 million this year, $16 million next year and a $2 million buyout on the 2012 team option -- but also wants three major-league-ready young players in return.

It's possible that demand comes from owner Drayton McLane and not GM Ed Wade. Pretty steep price, and that doesn't even factor in Oswalt's full no-trade clause.

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/07/06/trade-buzz-tigers-relief-lee-oswalt/

[JimR]

Bringing up Oswalt trade rumors... this, unfortunately, has the smell of truth:

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/07/06/trade-buzz-tigers-relief-lee-oswalt/

that is what i was told two weeks ago re McLane by someone who knows.

[MusicMan]

that is what i was told two weeks ago re McLane by someone who knows.

The fish continues to rot from the head.

[Andyzipp]

He better hope that someone gets REAL desperate.

I wonder if Roy is aware that the sum of professional baseball (except Nolan Ryan, somehow) thinks that he's mailing in his starts?

It would be very difficult to justify paying that price for Oswalt at this point.

[austro]

I wonder if Roy is aware that the sum of professional baseball (except Nolan Ryan, somehow) thinks that he's mailing in his starts.

He's saving himself so he'll be fresh for the stretch run with his new team. That should make him even more valuable.

[Ron Brand]

So what you're saying is that we're going to get lots of chances to see if Roy can pass Niekro?

[MusicMan]

So what you're saying is that we're going to get lots of chances to see if Roy can pass Niekro?

Ugh.

[Ron Brand]

Interesting that McLane, who by all accounts hates to pay someone to not work, is paying for Cooper, Matsui and what's left of Feliz but overvalues Oswalt enough to depress his possible contribution to rebuilding for another 12-18 months.

[Jacksonian]

Bringing up Oswalt trade rumors... this, unfortunately, has the smell of truth:

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/07/06/trade-buzz-tigers-relief-lee-oswalt/

I wonder if McLane would be willing to take on a veteran in trade for a close to even salary swap in order to get 3 excellent prospects?

[Russe]

Didn't McLane himself say just a few weeks ago that the team would be willing to pick up salary if it meant better prospects? Maybe Price is going off old/bad info?

[Ron Brand]

I wonder if McLane would be willing to take on a veteran in trade for a close to even salary swap in order to get 3 excellent prospects?

Do you have someone in mind?

[Jacksonian]

Do you have someone in mind?

I would imagine there are several teams who might fit.  But, looking for higher quality prospects at the upper levels isn't going to be easy especially on contending teams.  Lower levels is easier.

How about Oswalt to the Angels for Kazmir and 3 top prospects.  Salaries are very close, and I understand they've about had it with Kazmir's inconsistency.  That's just one example.  I'm sure there are several possibilities I don't have the time to look up.

[MusicMan]

The Dodgers are looking for a pitcher... how about Myers for Kyle Russell?

[Reuben]

Didn't McLane himself say just a few weeks ago that the team would be willing to pick up salary if it meant better prospects? Maybe Price is going off old/bad info?

Such reputable sources as Pinwheel and Jon Heyman have reported as much within the last week or so. So, do we believe them or a guy who writes for "AOL FanHouse"? Obviously, I believe Jim's source, but I get the impression that Drayton agreeing to eat some salary is a very new development.

[Jacksonian]

The Dodgers are looking for a pitcher... how about Myers for Kyle Russell?

How screwed are the Dodgers for taking on salary?

Why would the Astros want Russell?

[Noe]

Such reputable sources as Pinwheel and Jon Heyman have reported as much within the last week or so. So, do we believe them or a guy who writes for "AOL FanHouse"? Obviously, I believe Jim's source, but I get the impression that Drayton agreeing to eat some salary is a very new development.

More like Drayton "saying he'll eat some salary", not necessarily that he'll agree to it.  It's the old bait and hook trick, you know, like tell someone that they've automatically won a television set if you come out and listen to a timeshare pitch.  McLane is a salesman through and through.

[MusicMan]

How screwed are the Dodgers for taking on salary?

They should be able to afford Myers, not Oswalt.

Why would the Astros want Russell?

Because slugging outfielders are in short supply in the system?

[Jacksonian]

They should be able to afford Myers, not Oswalt.

Because slugging outfielders are in short supply in the system?

Considering how well he's pitched and that he has an affordable option for next year I would think the Astros could get more for him.

My inner GM says players with strikeout rates higher than Charlton Jimerson's aren't much value.

[pots]

They should be able to afford Myers, not Oswalt.

Given Myers is due only 1 million after July and he will probably be turning down his end of the second year, so no buyout.

[MusicMan]

Considering how well he's pitched and that he has an affordable option for next year I would think the Astros could get more for him.

It's a mutual option - there's no way Myers picks up his side.

My inner GM says players with strikeout rates higher than Charlton Jimerson's aren't much value.

Ouch.  Didn't realize he was struggling that badly.

[Matt]

I would imagine there are several teams who might fit.  But, looking for higher quality prospects at the upper levels isn't going to be easy especially on contending teams.  Lower levels is easier.

How about Oswalt to the Angels for Kazmir and 3 top prospects.  Salaries are very close, and I understand they've about had it with Kazmir's inconsistency.  That's just one example.  I'm sure there are several possibilities I don't have the time to look up.

I've thought of this too. The Angels are definitely losing patience with Kazmir and his inconsistency but I think they lose patience with players too quickly. I think they're done with Wood as well.

[JimR]

my info is a couple of weeks old, granted, but the comment was: "there will be a trade only if the other team picks up all his salary." that team is interested in him so i'm sure my source knows--or did then.

[moriartp]

Peavy to the DL with detached shoulder muscle. Olney speculates season could be over. White Sox are just a game back in the AL Central. Crazy Kenny might be inclined to give Wade a call at this point.

[Jose Cruz III]

Peavy to the DL with detached shoulder muscle. Olney speculates season could be over. White Sox are just a game back in the AL Central. Crazy Kenny might be inclined to give Wade a call at this point.

Maybe he will claim Carlos Lee off waivers next month.

[MusicMan]

Maybe he will claim Carlos Lee off waivers next month.

And maybe Giada and Rachael Ray will offer to make me dessert.

[BudGirl]

And maybe Giada and Rachael Ray will offer to make me dessert.

and serve it to you on a waterbed with olive oil?

[MusicMan]

and serve it to you on a waterbed with olive oil?

That would be HH, Rachael Ray, and Katie Couric.  It's important to keep these things straight, so that the proper party can be alerted if conditions present themselves.

[Jacksonian]

and serve it to you on a waterbed with olive oil?

Women.  I read that as, "...make me dessert."

[BudGirl]

That would be HH, Rachael Ray, and Katie Couric.  It's important to keep these things straight, so that the proper party can be alerted if conditions present themselves.

I know he has his fantasy.  I didn't know if maybe you would like something similar with the two you named.

[MusicMan]

I know he has his fantasy.  I didn't know if maybe you would like something similar with the two you named.

I'm not as picky as HH.

[HudsonHawk]

That would be HH, Rachael Ray, and Katie Couric.  It's important to keep these things straight, so that the proper party can be alerted if conditions present themselves.

If Rachel calls and says Katie is not available, but Giada has a few hours to kill...go ahead and alert me.

For that matter, if we want to go back to Oregonians...Anne Curry will do in a pinch.  I have this thing for 50-year old newswomen.  I'm not sure why.

[JimR]

If Rachel calls and says Katie is not available, but Giada has a few hours to kill...go ahead and alert me.

hours?

[austro]

If Rachel calls and says Katie is not available, but Giada has a few hours to kill...go ahead and alert me.

The hours won't be the only thing that gets killed.

[HudsonHawk]

hours?

What I used to do all night now takes me all night to do.

[JimR]

What I used to do all night now takes me all night to do.

nice

[Waldo]

hours?

He wanted to leave plenty of time for cuddling and talking afterward.

[astrosfan76]

Teams with scouts here watching Oswalt: Dodgers, Phillies, Rays and Mets.

  per McTaggart tweet.

Granted, he's not exactly pitching against an offensive juggernaut, but today's not been a bad day for them to scout.

[HudsonHawk]

  per McTaggart tweet.

Granted, he's not exactly pitching against an offensive juggernaut, but today's not been a bad day for them to scout.

I don't know...the way the Pirates have hit the ball the last few nights, I'm wondering how they don't score 10 runs a game. 

[Noe]

Last night on BBTN, JP Riccardi said he thought the Rays would be the team that acquires Roy Oswalt.  Paraphrasing Riccardi:

"If they are *serious* about competing for a playoff spot, they have to trade for a proven ACE like Oswalt.  They have the prospects to get a deal done too."  When asked what they would give up for Roy, Riccardi said one top of the line prospect and two other lower level prospects.  When asked about Cliff Lee, Riccardi said he thought the Twins would acquire Lee.  He also said that Oswalt would be the second choice for most clubs, so that is why he advocates that the Rays will do it sooner than others.  He also said that the Yankees and RedSox do not need arms, but the BoSox and Phillies should be looking for a bat.  He said Cecil Fielder for some reason and also Carlos Lee.

Strange comments from the one time GM.

[BlownRanger]

Last night on BBTN, JP Riccardi said he thought the Rays would be the team that acquires Roy Oswalt.  Paraphrasing Riccardi:

"If they are *serious* about competing for a playoff spot, they have to trade for a proven ACE like Oswalt.  They have the prospects to get a deal done too."  When asked what they would give up for Roy, Riccardi said one top of the line prospect and two other lower level prospects.  When asked about Cliff Lee, Riccardi said he thought the Twins would acquire Lee.  He also said that Oswalt would be the second choice for most clubs, so that is why he advocates that the Rays will do it sooner than others.  He also said that the Yankees and RedSox do not need arms, but the BoSox and Phillies should be looking for a bat.  He said Cecil Fielder for some reason and also Carlos Lee.

Strange comments from the one time GM.

ESPN hiring Riccardi to tell us what baseball GMs should do isn't as funny as their hiring Matt Millen to tell us what football GMs should do, but they're in the same neighborhood on the Ridicule Potential scale.

[geezerdonk]

I agree. Cecil could really help the Phillies.

[BizidyDizidy]

ESPN hiring Riccardi to tell us what baseball GMs should do isn't as funny as their hiring Matt Millen to tell us what football GMs should do, but they're in the same neighborhood on the Ridicule Potential scale.

Riccardi pales in comparison to Steve Phillips, in that regard. Even before the ugly intern debacle.

[MusicMan]

Riccardi pales in comparison to Steve Phillips, in that regard. Even before the ugly intern debacle.

At least Phillips made the playoffs.

[Noe]

Riccardi ended the segment with a very stern statement (and look directly into the camera) "This is what GMs are paid to do and they should do it.  Prospects are basically unproven and you have to look 25 guys in the face and tell them you're doing your best to make this team a winner now."

I had to look away, he was scarring me.

[Noe]

I agree. Cecil could really help the Phillies.

He also advocated the Phillies going out and trading for Bautisa in Toronto.  Man, that guy is having a breakout season this year.