Author Topic: One man's view of where this team stands  (Read 20015 times)

MusicMan

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One man's view of where this team stands
« on: May 26, 2009, 08:51:59 am »
Some folks that I repect greatly have posited that this team has the potential to be very good.

I respectfully disagree.

Let's look at this month.  I think we can agree that you've gotten out of Bourn, Tejada, Lee, Pence, and Pudge this month is about the mmaximum you could ever expect them to put up.  Despite this (and granted, Matsui has absolutely stunk up the joint), the are only middle of the pack in runs for May - 8th, to be exact.

Which isn't a huge issue if you're winning with your traditional Astros mix of pitching and defense.  But did anyone really think that this pitching staff could carry the team?  They have one good-to-great pitcher (Wandy), one good pitcher (Roy), and multiple Hail Marys.  As is the case with most Hail Marys, all of these have failed to connect.

Hampton?  Nothing.  No location, no command.
Ortiz?  Typically wild, which apparently was fine in Spring Training but unacceptable in real games.
Moehler?  Getting pummeled unmercifully.

There is no way to expect that this pitching staff will do anything but suffer all year long.  There is likewise no reason to expect that the lineup can excel to the extent that they can carry such a staff.

So in my view, it's time to move what you can.  Assuming returns to full health, the following would both have value and be willing/able to be traded:
Tejada
Valverde
Hawkins
Byrdak
Pudge

I don't know how much you can get, that's a topic for another day.  But in my view, this team needs to almost completely replace their infield, find a way to bridge the gap to Castro at catcher, and fill 3 rotation spots.  (2, if you're willing, as I am, to just leave Paulino out there and hope that he figures out how to harness his stuff.)
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2009, 09:08:32 am »
Some folks that I repect greatly have posited that this team has the potential to be very good.

I respectfully disagree.

Let's look at this month.  I think we can agree that you've gotten out of Bourn, Tejada, Lee, Pence, and Pudge this month is about the mmaximum you could ever expect them to put up.  Despite this (and granted, Matsui has absolutely stunk up the joint), the are only middle of the pack in runs for May - 8th, to be exact.

Which isn't a huge issue if you're winning with your traditional Astros mix of pitching and defense.  But did anyone really think that this pitching staff could carry the team?  They have one good-to-great pitcher (Wandy), one good pitcher (Roy), and multiple Hail Marys.  As is the case with most Hail Marys, all of these have failed to connect.

Hampton?  Nothing.  No location, no command.
Ortiz?  Typically wild, which apparently was fine in Spring Training but unacceptable in real games.
Moehler?  Getting pummeled unmercifully.

There is no way to expect that this pitching staff will do anything but suffer all year long.  There is likewise no reason to expect that the lineup can excel to the extent that they can carry such a staff.

agreed.

Quote
So in my view, it's time to move what you can.  Assuming returns to full health, the following would both have value and be willing/able to be traded:
Tejada
Valverde
Hawkins
Byrdak
Pudge

I don't know how much you can get, that's a topic for another day.  But in my view, this team needs to almost completely replace their infield, find a way to bridge the gap to Castro at catcher, and fill 3 rotation spots.  (2, if you're willing, as I am, to just leave Paulino out there and hope that he figures out how to harness his stuff.)

My only problem with moving these players, is Cooper.  How much has Cooper's mismanagement of the team hurt these players?  It seems to me that if you are ready to start trading players, you are going to keep Cooper.  I would like to see Cooper gone, give it a couple weeks to see how the team reacts and then go from there.

I really hate to add this but I am trying to think what is better for the Astros, but you may need to add Bourn/Y. Ramirez to the list of players you are willing to trade.

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MusicMan

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2009, 09:11:56 am »
I really hate to add this but I am trying to think what is better for the Astros, but you may need to add Bourn/Y. Ramirez to the list of players you are willing to trade.

I love watching Caballo hit, but this was the problem with giving him no-trade status.  If Yordany is for real, then the proper OF of the future is Pence/Bourn/Ramirez.  But that can't happen.  Given that, I'm still not convinced that trading high on PENCE!!! to get a top-of-the-rotation kind of kind isn't the best move.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2009, 09:19:44 am »
I love watching Caballo hit, but this was the problem with giving him no-trade status.  If Yordany is for real, then the proper OF of the future is Pence/Bourn/Ramirez.  But that can't happen.  Given that, I'm still not convinced that trading high on PENCE!!! to get a top-of-the-rotation kind of kind isn't the best move.

I didn't include Pence, but I'm all for trading high on him.  Bogusevic sounded like a pretty good prospect also for the outfield.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2009, 09:35:16 am »
Too early.  Only 8 games back. Coop will be fired.  Lance will return as will Hampton.  Bourn will create a spark at the top.  Paulino may very well figure it out.  Not a great team, but a competitive one.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2009, 09:38:04 am »
Too early.  Only 8 games back. Coop will be fired.  Lance will return as will Hampton.  Bourn will create a spark at the top.  Paulino may very well figure it out.  Not a great team, but a competitive one.

Firing him today would really get my weak off to a google-image-search-of-Scarlet great start.  I fear he may last the season.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2009, 09:56:39 am »
Valverde coming back and pitching well will probably help a lot.    They do need another starter or two, but have for years.   Hopefully, there is another Randy Wolf available later in the season.   

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One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2009, 10:37:08 am »
I would like to see the team as presently constituted (plus a healthy Valverde) get a chance to play under a competent manager.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2009, 10:39:59 am »
I would like to see the team as presently constituted (plus a healthy Valverde) get a chance to play under a competent manager.

I support this.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2009, 10:41:51 am »
I support this.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2009, 10:42:18 am »
I don't know why everyone assumes that Coop will be fired. Drayton does not appear to believe that Coop is in any way a problem. Certainly not THE problem. Drayton didn't extend Coop only to fire him a couple of months later because people that know baseball think that he should have bunted some guys over. And he misuses the staff. And he fucks up the line-up. (Although he seems to have finally figured that bit out.)
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2009, 10:46:06 am »
I don't know why everyone assumes that Coop will be fired. Drayton does not appear to believe that Coop is in any way a problem. Certainly not THE problem. Drayton didn't extend Coop only to fire him a couple of months later because people that know baseball think that he should have bunted some guys over. And he misuses the staff. And he fucks up the line-up. (Although he seems to have finally figured that bit out.)

I would like to see Cooper gone, but I don't think it will happen.  (Please, please let Drayton prove me wrong.)
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2009, 10:50:20 am »
I would like to see Cooper gone, but I don't think it will happen.  (Please, please let Drayton prove me wrong.)

Nope, unless Coop does something really stupid in front of the public (like pull down his pants in the dugout), he will remain until end of season. 

I hope I am wrong as well.   The reason I feel this is because Bud likes Coop and Coop is African American.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2009, 10:54:28 am »
Nope, unless Coop does something really stupid in front of the public (like pull down his pants in the dugout), he will remain until end of season. 

I hope I am wrong as well.   The reason I feel this is because Bud likes Coop and Coop is African American.

I think the Bud thing is FAR more of a factor than the AA thing.  McLane may be a lot of things, but despite John Lopez's protests, he's never shown himself to be especially racist, especially when it comes to his businessess.  At least I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.


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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2009, 10:56:49 am »
I don't know why everyone assumes that Coop will be fired. Drayton does not appear to believe that Coop is in any way a problem. Certainly not THE problem. Drayton didn't extend Coop only to fire him a couple of months later because people that know baseball think that he should have bunted some guys over. And he misuses the staff. And he fucks up the line-up. (Although he seems to have finally figured that bit out.)

I'm not sure we know if Drayton thinks Coop is a problem or not.  The extension was an indication of what he thought of Cooper at that point in time, or perhaps more importantly a forced hand to "eliminate any confusion or lack of focus on the baseball team" as Drayton said that day.  Hopefully he has since learned more.  I would like to think he would not hold on to a weak manager just to avoid double-dipping on Manager salary.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2009, 10:59:27 am »
I think the Bud thing is FAR more of a factor than the AA thing.  McLane may be a lot of things, but despite John Lopez's protests, he's never shown himself to be especially racist, especially when it comes to his businessess.  At least I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.



I don't think Drayton is a racist.  I think he is concerned with the general public perception of himself.  It is all about AIS.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2009, 11:00:14 am »
I'm not sure we know if Drayton thinks Coop is a problem or not.  The extension was an indication of what he thought of Cooper at that point in time, or perhaps more importantly a forced hand to "eliminate any confusion or lack of focus on the baseball team" as Drayton said that day.  Hopefully he has since learned more.  I would like to think he would not hold on to a weak manager just to avoid double-dipping on Manager salary.

Well seeing as he didn't do that with Collins, Dierker, Williams, or Garner...I'm not sure why he'd start with Cooper.

But if the team isn't just not competitive, but just shit fuck awful as they've been for the last couple of weeks, does changing managers really make that much of a difference?

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2009, 11:00:34 am »
I don't think Drayton is a racist.  I think he is concerned with the general public perception of himself.  It is all about AIS.

No one is buying a ticket to see Cecil Cooper manage.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2009, 11:17:27 am »
No one is buying a ticket to see Cecil Cooper manage.

Thats for sure.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2009, 11:21:13 am »
No one is buying a ticket to see Cecil Cooper manage.

That's just not correct.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2009, 11:23:37 am »
I don't think Drayton is a racist.  I think he is concerned with the general public perception of himself.  It is all about AIS.

I've had my ass in Drayton's seat, and if he can't see the incompetence of the manager from there, he's blind.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2009, 11:36:48 am »
I've had my ass in Drayton's seat, and if he can't see the incompetence of the manager from there, he's blind.

And you showed it to the viewing audience.
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Limey

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2009, 11:44:57 am »
And you showed it to the viewing audience.

I think you're confusing me with someone else.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2009, 11:59:21 am »
I think you're confusing me with someone else.

Guilt by association.  It's what this country was founded on.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2009, 12:00:07 pm »
I've had my ass in Drayton's seat, and if he can't see the incompetence of the manager from there, he's blind.

Or he has "other" reasons for keeping coop around.  

It is also well known that Uncle D knew jack squat about baseball when he bought the stros, so in some respects..maybe he is blind.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2009, 12:14:08 pm »
I think the Bud thing is FAR more of a factor than the AA thing.  McLane may be a lot of things, but despite John Lopez's protests, he's never shown himself to be especially racist, especially when it comes to his businessess.  At least I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

there are those who will tell you the Bud thing and the AA thing are one and the same.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2009, 12:17:58 pm »
I don't think Drayton is a racist.  I think he is concerned with the general public perception of himself.  It is all about AIS.

If people boo Cooper, Cooper is done as manager.  That is what Drayton deals with.  What should be the question at hand is what Ed Wade and Tal Smith think which is an entirely different matter altogether.  Do they think Cooper is a good manager?  As long as they do, then nothing will change.  As long as fans do not boo Cooper every time he comes out to change pitchers, then Drayton won't worry about the manager situation at all.  His baseball men aren't saying anything and his fans aren't booing... Cooper is safe.

All the other stuff is secondary.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2009, 12:23:04 pm »
That's just not correct.

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Noe

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2009, 12:24:21 pm »
there are those who will tell you the Bud thing and the AA thing are one and the same.

Unfortunately, Bud has more invested in Cooper than he did in Willie Randolph.  That much is true.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2009, 12:24:28 pm »
there are those who will tell you the Bud thing and the AA thing are one and the same.

I hope not.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2009, 12:25:28 pm »
I hope not.


just sayin' what i was told.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2009, 12:25:57 pm »
just sayin' what i was told.

I know.  Just hope that McLane is a bigger person than that.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2009, 12:53:32 pm »
Some folks that I repect greatly have posited that this team has the potential to be very good.

I respectfully disagree.

Let's look at this month.  I think we can agree that you've gotten out of Bourn, Tejada, Lee, Pence, and Pudge this month is about the mmaximum you could ever expect them to put up.  Despite this (and granted, Matsui has absolutely stunk up the joint), the are only middle of the pack in runs for May - 8th, to be exact.

Which isn't a huge issue if you're winning with your traditional Astros mix of pitching and defense.  But did anyone really think that this pitching staff could carry the team?  They have one good-to-great pitcher (Wandy), one good pitcher (Roy), and multiple Hail Marys.  As is the case with most Hail Marys, all of these have failed to connect.

Hampton?  Nothing.  No location, no command.
Ortiz?  Typically wild, which apparently was fine in Spring Training but unacceptable in real games.
Moehler?  Getting pummeled unmercifully.

There is no way to expect that this pitching staff will do anything but suffer all year long.  There is likewise no reason to expect that the lineup can excel to the extent that they can carry such a staff.

So in my view, it's time to move what you can.  Assuming returns to full health, the following would both have value and be willing/able to be traded:
Tejada
Valverde
Hawkins
Byrdak
Pudge

I don't know how much you can get, that's a topic for another day.  But in my view, this team needs to almost completely replace their infield, find a way to bridge the gap to Castro at catcher, and fill 3 rotation spots.  (2, if you're willing, as I am, to just leave Paulino out there and hope that he figures out how to harness his stuff.)

Nothing major is going to happen right now.  IMO this discussion is best held until the ASB.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2009, 01:10:02 pm »
The discussion should be what moves Ed Wade might be considering for right now.  I think (IMHO) that he has three things to consider right now to make the team more competitive:

1.  Improve the defense - it is horrible up the middle, primarily at shortstop.  Shortstop is the key position up the middle and right now, Houston has perhaps the worse option in the entire NL.  You want better pitching?  Improve the defense first.

2.  Improve the bullpen - a team with a bad bullpen will not be competitive.  Far too often this past week, I saw Houston lose games late because they could not hold a lead.  Is it a tired bullpen or a bullpen made up of guys out of their comfort zone (re: middle relievers now are setup men, setup men are closers, etc)?  If Houston has options in the minors for good setup men and maybe a closer, then now is the time to experiment with some changes.

3.  Adjust the rotation - Houston has no stopper, the closest thing is Wandy and he failed yesterday (regardless of the unearned runs factor... see item #1).  Having far too many of the same pitcher in the rotation (guys trying to find themselves) is hurting this team.  It's time to try and find a solution and insert a player who is sure of themselves into the rotation.  Someone of Moehler, Ortiz, Hampton and Paulino is going to lose his job because two months is enough time to evaluate and make a change in the rotation.  No time like the present to do so.

With these moves by the GM, then the excuses built in for Cooper must go away.  If they continue to lose, then it's time to consider reloading with young players and jettisoning the high payroll players like Tejada (who I hope has a great season this year).  With the early changes and then the mid-season changes, you'll get a very good look at Cooper's prowess as a manager.  And then a decision can be made about his abilities.  Right now, with a veteran team, Cooper is a hinderance.  His excuse about "players need to come to me, I've got an open door" is nice, but you must avoid hypocrisy is such statements.  If you want players to come to you, then you must avoid the temptation to throw players under the bus at those after game press conferences.  Dierker had the same problem of losing the clubhouse because he was too direct about his feelings about player performances to the media.  Better to avoid the media "he said/he said" type of scenarios.  Talk to your players first, explain to them what happened in certain situations, at least talk to your veterans.

I can't believe Cooper doesn't really understand how bad he looks when he fails to bunt in a key situation or sits on his duff when a full blown situation is happening before his eyes.  If he thinks that the players should come to him and say "Skip... you got a minute, I'd like to talk to you about tonight", then he's being too one-sided and he'll lose the clubhouse.  Instead, shouldn't Cooper say to the media "no comment" or something very generic in these situations and then gather around the players and/or his veterans and say "I made a mistake and frankly, I was a bit confused as to what to do in that situation... so Geoff, thanks for picking me up, I owe you one... next time though, It's mine to handle".  You want it one way only, where players come to you, then you're going to lose.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 01:19:53 pm by Noe in Austin »

Andyzipp

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2009, 01:21:09 pm »
If it were me...and it's not.

Move Tejada to third.  Don't care if he likes the idea or not.  He makes too much money to bench, and isn't likely to be dealt...yet.

Play Maysonet at short until Manzella's ready.  Again, don't care, but at this point you have NOTHING to lose by getting better defense at short.

Play Keppinger at 2nd against everyone.

Move Blum to the super sub role he's so good at.

Bench the fuck out of Matsui.

Further in the season, I'd firesale the veterans.  However, as that's not going to happen and it's not realistic...Attempt to get value for Tejada, Matsui and Valverde...and Oswalt.  Offer Lee cash to waive his no-trade.

It's time for a cleansing.


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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2009, 01:22:34 pm »
If it were me...and it's not.

Bench the fuck out of Matsui.

Is Bench ok with this?
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2009, 01:25:11 pm »
If it were me...and it's not.

Move Tejada to third.  Don't care if he likes the idea or not.  He makes too much money to bench, and isn't likely to be dealt...yet.

Play Maysonet at short until Manzella's ready.  Again, don't care, but at this point you have NOTHING to lose by getting better defense at short.

Play Keppinger at 2nd against everyone.

Move Blum to the super sub role he's so good at.

Bench the fuck out of Matsui.

Further in the season, I'd firesale the veterans.  However, as that's not going to happen and it's not realistic...Attempt to get value for Tejada, Matsui and Valverde...and Oswalt.  Offer Lee cash to waive his no-trade.

It's time for a cleansing.



The short term moves of Tejada, Maysonet and Keppinger are good ways to start.  I'd also consider moving Backe into the lineup and either shipping out Ortiz, moving Moehler to long relief or sending Paulino back down for more seasoning (because under Cooper, poor kid is going to get so screwed up).  Either way, you can't lose with some infusion there.  Last move I may consider is moving up a guy like Parranto to setup man.  Right now, the bullpen is just as much a hinderance as anything else, but I hope that making the defense better will help shape up the pitching.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2009, 01:42:43 pm »
Bench the fuck out of Matsui.

I'm hoping that with Iwamura out the Rays might inquire about Matsui. They wouldn't have to make a long-term commitment to him (his contract expires this year, right?), so they wouldn't have to worry about what to do next year when Iwamura comes back.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

OregonStrosFan

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2009, 01:45:34 pm »
I'm hoping that with Iwamura out the Rays might inquire about Matsui. They wouldn't have to make a long-term commitment to him (his contract expires this year, right?), so they wouldn't have to worry about what to do next year when Iwamura comes back.

Next year. Cot's Baseball Contracts: LINK

Kaz Matsui inf
3 years/$16.5M (2008-10)

    * 3 years/$16.5M (2008-10)
          o signed by Houston as a free agent 12/2/07
          o $1.5M signing bonus
          o 08:$5M, 09:$5M, 10:$5M
          o limited no-trade clause
          o club to provide translator, physical therapist
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2009, 01:51:13 pm »
If people boo Cooper, Cooper is done as manager.  That is what Drayton deals with.  What should be the question at hand is what Ed Wade and Tal Smith think which is an entirely different matter altogether.  Do they think Cooper is a good manager?  As long as they do, then nothing will change.  As long as fans do not boo Cooper every time he comes out to change pitchers, then Drayton won't worry about the manager situation at all.  His baseball men aren't saying anything and his fans aren't booing... Cooper is safe.

All the other stuff is secondary.

It's hard for Drayton to know who is getting booed when the only time Cooper comes out of the dug-out is for a pitching change.  Drayton may think the "fans" are booing the pitcher being pulled.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2009, 01:52:20 pm »
If it were me...and it's not.

Move Tejada to third.  Don't care if he likes the idea or not.  He makes too much money to bench, and isn't likely to be dealt...yet.

Play Maysonet at short until Manzella's ready.  Again, don't care, but at this point you have NOTHING to lose by getting better defense at short.

Play Keppinger at 2nd against everyone.

Move Blum to the super sub role he's so good at.

Bench the fuck out of Matsui.

Further in the season, I'd firesale the veterans.  However, as that's not going to happen and it's not realistic...Attempt to get value for Tejada, Matsui and Valverde...and Oswalt.  Offer Lee cash to waive his no-trade.

It's time for a cleansing.



In this scenario Manzella is likely ready enough.  He understands what he's supposed to be doing, and as long as Coop doesn't fuck him up, should be fine.

I haven't watched enough to know, but is Keppinger really good enough to be the everyday 2b?

I'd like to think that a deadline deal of Tejada could net a good prospect as the receiving team will only have to pay him 2 months worth of salary.

If Matsui continues to struggle they won't get anything for him considering he's under contract next year as well.
Goin' for a bus ride.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2009, 02:03:36 pm »
Moehler is looking suiting to relief.  He's fine the first time through the lineup.

From what I've heard, Maysonet is no upgrade at SS.  I'm quite happy to put Tejada at 3b nd call up Manzella, though.  However, "as long as Coop doesn't fuck him up" frankly scares me.

Trading Oswalt would be fine by me if we don't get pennies on the dollar.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2009, 02:05:30 pm »
Next year. Cot's Baseball Contracts: LINK

Kaz Matsui inf
3 years/$16.5M (2008-10)

    * 3 years/$16.5M (2008-10)
          o signed by Houston as a free agent 12/2/07
          o $1.5M signing bonus
          o 08:$5M, 09:$5M, 10:$5M
          o limited no-trade clause
          o club to provide translator, physical therapist


Well, crap. There goes that idea. Thanks for the info.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2009, 02:08:45 pm »
If people boo Cooper, Cooper is done as manager.  That is what Drayton deals with.  What should be the question at hand is what Ed Wade and Tal Smith think which is an entirely different matter altogether.  Do they think Cooper is a good manager?  As long as they do, then nothing will change.  As long as fans do not boo Cooper every time he comes out to change pitchers, then Drayton won't worry about the manager situation at all.  His baseball men aren't saying anything and his fans aren't booing... Cooper is safe.

All the other stuff is secondary.

How hard would it be to get the ASG scheduled here? That seems to be the best time to get a manager fired.
sigh...

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2009, 02:13:16 pm »
How hard would it be to get the ASG scheduled here? That seems to be the best time to get a manager fired.

Or...

Quick, retire someone's number! 

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2009, 02:15:19 pm »
Or...

Quick, retire someone's number! 

that one is easier.

you should start a petition.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2009, 02:21:22 pm »
Or...

Quick, retire someone's number! 

I think the only player left whose number isn't retired is James Mouton.
Astros Fan: 1978-2011

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2009, 02:24:25 pm »
I think the only player left whose number isn't retired is James Mouton.

Funny, but actually JR should be next (IMO).

Andyzipp

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2009, 02:37:30 pm »
Funny, but actually JR should be next (IMO).

Oh, good.  Let's start this debate again.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2009, 02:39:11 pm »
How hard would it be to get the ASG scheduled here? That seems to be the best time to get a manager fired.

If only someone could score seats directly behind home plate and use the airtime to make the point.
I wish the first word I had said when I was born was 'quote'. Then before I die, I could say, 'unquote.' --Steven Wright

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2009, 02:40:21 pm »
Oh, good.  Let's start this debate again.

No Thanks!  But it might be a good chance.  Lets see, retire 1 African American's Jersey and fire the manager.  no racism there.  Pam...you hearing me?

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2009, 02:53:21 pm »
If only someone could score seats directly behind home plate and use the airtime to make the point.

That's so stupid, it just may work.  And we're just the guys to pull it off too!

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2009, 02:56:09 pm »
No Thanks!  But it might be a good chance.  Lets see, retire 1 African American's Jersey and fire the manager.  no racism there.  Pam...you hearing me?

I got a sick, sinking feeling as I read this statement.  I'm not sure if it's due to the manipulative, devious nature of such a tactic or the fact that I think it just might succeed. 
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2009, 03:01:59 pm »
I'm not sure if it's due to the manipulative, devious nature of such a tactic or the fact that I think it just might succeed. 

Clearly, Astroholic has a future in politics.  Or sales.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2009, 03:02:27 pm »
Oh, good.  Let's start this debate again.


We go way too long in between these types of things. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2009, 03:03:11 pm »
Is Bench ok with this?

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2009, 03:26:56 pm »
I don't want his hemorrhoids!

If hemorrhoids are an STD, I'm pretty sure You're Doing It Wrong.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2009, 03:42:05 pm »
Maybe suggest Cooper do some Signings At The Shed?
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Astroholic

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2009, 03:45:24 pm »
Maybe suggest Cooper do some Signings At The Shed?

Or get his photo on SI?

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2009, 04:14:39 pm »
Or get his photo on SI?

You have to have reached some kind of peak for that, and repercussions seem to lap over and affect others, even if they weren't on the cover. The Shed doesn't require anything outstanding, and consequences are aimed at the individual, rather than the team.
Don't put the baby in the bulldozer.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2009, 04:17:27 pm »
No one signs at the Shed anymore.  It is the Astros Team Store now.  When was the last time they did a signing?
''I just did an interview with someone I like more than you. I used a lot of big words on him. I don't have anything left for you.'' --Brad Ausmus

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2009, 09:39:51 pm »
I'm not sure how trading Oswalt would make the Astros better, even in the near-future, unless the other team over-dealt for him. Pitching is a weakness, and with little help coming from the minors. Trading something proven for unpredictable prospects is risky. Otherwise, you'd be selling low.

Roy's era for the past 3 years: 3.54/3.18/2.98. 10 starts so far this year. Is he really falling off a cliff? If so, then yeah, get what you can. I just have doubts about that.

One thing that would be really surprising: the Astros going to the postseason this year. It would be awesome to be that surprised.

For awhile now, they seem to be maximizing their resources to make the best product, not the best baseball team. When do they put into action the realization that the best baseball team creates the best product?

Fuck the Cubs.






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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2009, 09:59:57 pm »
When do they put into action the realization that the best baseball team creates the best product?

Well put.  Who the heck knows, but its well past time they figured that shit out.
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #63 on: May 26, 2009, 10:02:17 pm »
Well put.  Who the heck knows, but its well past time they figured that shit out.

Not to worry. Pam's on it.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

pravata

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #64 on: May 26, 2009, 10:10:39 pm »
knee deep in alligators.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #65 on: May 26, 2009, 11:32:10 pm »
A few random thoughts on the club...

Moehler should either go to the pen or be released.

Ortiz should be on the bubble too, notwithstanding his last performance.

Wright belongs in Round Rock.

Bench Matsui against right-handed pitching. Hitting .323 against lefties and .191 against righties.

Move Tejada to 3B. He's killing us at SS.

 
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pravata

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2009, 11:36:36 pm »
A few random thoughts on the club...

Moehler should either go to the pen or be released.

Ortiz should be on the bubble too, notwithstanding his last performance.

Wright belongs in Round Rock.

Bench Matsui against right-handed pitching. Hitting .323 against lefties and .191 against righties.

Move Tejada to 3B. He's killing us at SS.

 

He'd be a substandard 3b and there's no one currently on the team who would play an appreciably better short. 

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2009, 11:38:27 pm »
He'd be a substandard 3b and there's no one currently on the team who would play an appreciably better short. 

Then make a roster move and get a SS. Tejada is not going to be here next year, so let's get started now with finding a replacement. Tejada's SS play has been abysmal. He has no range.
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pravata

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2009, 11:42:42 pm »
Then make a roster move and get a SS. Tejada is not going to be here next year, so let's get started now with finding a replacement. Tejada's SS play has been abysmal. He has no range.

Agreed.  But Tejada was named MLB player of the week for his hitting.  Where do you go now? Manzella could play short but he wouldn't hit.  A situation we are familar with.  The whole reason they got Tejada was because the organization was tired of hearing about all hit no field shortstops. (That and Everett wasnt going to play in 08)

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2009, 11:45:56 pm »
Agreed.  But Tejada was named MLB player of the week for his hitting.  Where do you go now? Manzella could play short but he wouldn't hit.  A situation we are familar with.  The whole reason they got Tejada was because the organization was tired of hearing about all hit no field shortstops. (That and Everett wasnt going to play in 08)

I'm just a little frustrated. Of course, I think that I have less of a case of it than the Zippster after reading the GZ tonight.
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pravata

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2009, 11:47:49 pm »
I'm just a little frustrated. Of course, I think that I have less of a case of it than the Zippster after reading the GZ tonight.

Me too. Still.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2009, 11:48:25 pm »
He'd be a substandard 3b and there's no one currently on the team who would play an appreciably better short. 

Help me out here.  I thought 3B was the place that old SS with diminishing range went to die... What would be the prob for him there (and yes asking 'cause I don't know, not trying to be a smartass, this time anyway...)?
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #72 on: May 26, 2009, 11:50:06 pm »
Help me out here.  I thought 3B was the place that old SS with diminishing range went to die... What would be the prob for him there (and yes asking 'cause I don't know, not trying to be a smartass, this time anyway...)?

It is where Vinny Castilla went to lengthen his career by at least four years, maybe five.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #73 on: May 26, 2009, 11:50:19 pm »
I'm sick and fucking tired of this specialist lefty shit. Byrdak is facing .333 against left handed hitters, and Wright's left-handed hitters are hitting over .500 against him.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #74 on: May 26, 2009, 11:53:09 pm »
It is where Vinny Castilla went to lengthen his career by at least four years, maybe five.

Should have been clearer.  'Went to die' was meant to mean 'finish out their careers' (and add a couple of extra years to them they'd not be able to have at SS).
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #75 on: May 27, 2009, 12:01:36 am »
Should have been clearer.  'Went to die' was meant to mean 'finish out their careers' (and add a couple of extra years to them they'd not be able to have at SS).

Yeah.  Usually you look for guys with cat-like reactions to play third.  That you can find in a catcher perhaps more quickly than a shortstop.  However Vinny Castilla was a shortstop, so was Cal Ripken Jr and of course A-Rod.  So it's not uncommon to see a shortstop that has nice quickness make that transition.  As I remember though, Cousin Vinny didn't really have quickness, sometimes he was a nano-second slow to react.  However, he had some left over range, so he could move around the bag a little more by playing back and thus cut some reaction time down.  However when I saw Tejada play third for the Dominican Republic in the World Baseball Classic, the Netherlands team did exactly what I thought someone should do.  Bunt.  Because unless you have real quick reaction, you're never going to get a good bunter if you're slow of foot and lacking the quick reaction at third.

I imagine Tejada at third would cause such a reaction from the opposing team.  "Let's bunt and see how he does".  Tejada at short right now has the luxury of playing the deepest part of the infield and quickness is not that necessary unless you want to equate it with good range.  I could see that.

pravata

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2009, 12:01:57 am »
Help me out here.  I thought 3B was the place that old SS with diminishing range went to die... What would be the prob for him there (and yes asking 'cause I don't know, not trying to be a smartass, this time anyway...)?

3b is not a skills free position.  There are certain very specific manuevers that a 3b needs to master.  The step to the line, the move in on a chopper or a bunt.  It is not a generic position that translates shortstop skills automatically.  The time to do it is not in the middle of the season. ST is when you try it.  (You may now bring up a Torre or a Boyer or some other protegy) Given Tejada's very vocal objection to changing position I dont see how this turns out well.  You move Tejada to 3rd, you have a substandard 3b.  You'd better be moving a superior shortstop in to take up the slack.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #77 on: May 27, 2009, 08:34:16 am »
Should have been clearer.  'Went to die' was meant to mean 'finish out their careers' (and add a couple of extra years to them they'd not be able to have at SS).

Proof!
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #78 on: May 27, 2009, 09:04:15 am »
However Vinny Castilla was a shortstop, so was Cal Ripken Jr and of course A-Rod.  So it's not uncommon to see a shortstop that has nice quickness make that transition. 

A-Rod's move to 3b, of course, was not to extend his career, but actually the singular case in his career of getting out prima-donna'ed.  It makes me smile to think of the number of runs the Yankees have lost by playing 2 guys out of position.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #79 on: May 27, 2009, 09:12:53 am »
I was thinking another team might need him at third, not put him at third for the stros.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #80 on: May 27, 2009, 09:14:03 am »
At this point, I don't give a shit if we call up half of Round Rock and half of Corpus.  Hell, just bring the full rotation from Lancaster.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #81 on: May 27, 2009, 09:35:23 am »
At this point, I don't give a shit if we call up half of Round Rock and half of Corpus.  Hell, just bring the full rotation from Lancaster.

Um, not Lancaster.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #82 on: May 27, 2009, 09:46:01 am »
Um, not Lancaster.

Lancaster, Lexington, its all the same.
so the national media is discussing the Stros assets as well.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AknEXy3cFEwT9TVOYNd5.C0RvLYF?slug=ge-fullcount052609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

"A logical trading partner for Tampa Bay would be the Astros because Jose Valverde is a year away from free agency, but that’s assuming Astros owner Drayton McLane would commence on a long-overdue rebuilding plan. Houston would probably ask for Wade Davis, Tampa Bay’s best pitching prospect after David Price."

Wade Davis, a 6'5'' RHP with a 92-93 mph fastball and good curveball.  Apparently location has been an issue for him, walks too many hitters.

Oh, I'm sure Valverde has to come back and show he's healthy, and has walked off his injury, in order for anyone to trade for him.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 09:48:16 am by rifraft »

MusicMan

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2009, 09:54:45 am »
Um, not Lancaster.

One of those fucking 1 stoplight towns that starts with L.  Hell, call Laredo, can't be worse.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2009, 10:10:20 am »
But if the team isn't just not competitive, but just shit fuck awful as they've been for the last couple of weeks, does changing managers really make that much of a difference?

Nope.


If people boo Cooper, Cooper is done as manager.  That is what Drayton deals with. . . As long as fans do not boo Cooper every time he comes out to change pitchers, then Drayton won't worry about the manager situation at all.  His baseball men aren't saying anything and his fans aren't booing... Cooper is safe.

They're not booing.  They're saying, "Coooop, Cooooop. . . "

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #85 on: May 27, 2009, 10:19:45 am »
Nope.


They're not booing.  They're saying, "Coooop, Cooooop. . . "

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2009, 10:23:57 am »
Also, I posted about it in the GZ, but I'll reiterate it here.

I saw Yorman Bazardo last night, and man did he look good.

8 innings of 3 hit shutout ball. He throws in the low to mid 90s, and has a really good hard curveball he throws both for strikes and as a strikeout pitch.

Seeing Bazardo called up and given a shot wouldn't be the worst thing the Astros could do.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #87 on: May 27, 2009, 10:26:23 am »
How have I never heard of this guy?  Am I going senile already?
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #88 on: May 27, 2009, 10:28:59 am »
How have I never heard of this guy?  Am I going senile already?

I'm wondering the same thing.  How'd the Astros acquire him?

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #89 on: May 27, 2009, 10:31:00 am »
How have I never heard of this guy?  Am I going senile already?

beats me but at the present time, he is better than Norris. that is no slam against Norris.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #90 on: May 27, 2009, 10:37:05 am »
Looks like he's bounced around a lot. But man, he has good stuff.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #91 on: May 27, 2009, 10:47:56 am »
Looks like the Tiggers gave him an extended cup of coffee in 2007 that went well.  Wonder why he's bounced around like that?
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #92 on: May 27, 2009, 11:08:18 am »
Looks like the Tiggers gave him an extended cup of coffee in 2007 that went well.  Wonder why he's bounced around like that?

He'd been considered a good prospect.  Not elite.  Just good.  A pitch to contact rather than high strike out guy.  So, he was useful in trade to acquire major league pieces.  Note he was dealt twice for major league relievers Villone and Frazier respectively. 

2007 was good year for him, but 2008 was a disaster.  IIRC, he was considered a 4-5 starter or long reliever at the mlb level.  Of course so was Wandy until last year.  He only turns 25 this July.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #93 on: May 27, 2009, 11:55:30 am »
Also, I posted about it in the GZ, but I'll reiterate it here.

I saw Yorman Bazardo last night, and man did he look good.

8 innings of 3 hit shutout ball. He throws in the low to mid 90s, and has a really good hard curveball he throws both for strikes and as a strikeout pitch.

Seeing Bazardo called up and given a shot wouldn't be the worst thing the Astros could do.

Ed Wade is supposedly in Round Rock and of course since he's there, he saw the kid pitch.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #94 on: May 27, 2009, 12:08:41 pm »
Well the chron rag sports page is fully on the can Cooper train.  That should work over the masses.  Meaning lots of booing for Cooper next home stand.  The wheels are in motion.  Barring a win streak, I think he doesn't survive into the first weekend of June (Astros home all next week).

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #95 on: May 27, 2009, 12:11:56 pm »
All this 'talk' of firing cooper makes me wonder who is going to manage the team?
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #96 on: May 27, 2009, 12:20:31 pm »
All this 'talk' of firing cooper makes me wonder who is going to manage the team?

Details, no time for that.  Grab your pitchfork!
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #97 on: May 27, 2009, 12:28:15 pm »
All this 'talk' of firing cooper makes me wonder who is going to manage the team?

maybe pravata had a better offer?

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #98 on: May 27, 2009, 01:06:14 pm »
All this 'talk' of firing cooper makes me wonder who is going to manage the team?

I'm all for notCooper.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #99 on: May 27, 2009, 01:07:59 pm »
All this 'talk' of firing cooper makes me wonder who is going to manage the team?

Dave Clark.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #100 on: May 27, 2009, 01:10:25 pm »
Dave Clark.

Biggio?  Bags?  Who the Hell knows?

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #101 on: May 27, 2009, 01:11:31 pm »
All this 'talk' of firing cooper makes me wonder who is going to manage the team?

Somebody who can work with youngsters, because that's where we're headed. Perhaps Clark, as JackAstro suggests. Perhaps Bogar, as somebody else suggested the other day.

Actually, as this season spirals down the toilet, I'd be all for giving it to Clark on an interim basis just to see if he can do things like fill out a lineup card and bunt in a tie game in the 9th inning of a road game with men on 1st and 2nd and nobody out.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #103 on: May 27, 2009, 01:21:48 pm »
Talking about a man being fired is really uncomfortable for me, although I have been vocal that Cooper is in over his head on this job.  I was hoping he'd learned from the day he first took this job and was enthusiastic to carry on the work Phil Garner started and put into play the desire of Tal Smith for speed on this club.  Then when things got a little more frustrating for him, it just seemed like Cooper needed to learn really quickly how to react to these trying times a manager will go through.  I still remember his reaction to Micah Owings getting a homerun off Borkowski and how he immediately alienated the reliever.  

I thought he'd grow from that manager to a better clubhouse guy, but last night was more evidence that he has not.  I read Pinwheel's blog today and it bothered me.  Not that Cooper needs me to feel sorry for him, but he could have done so much to change the impression he started last year of his ability to have his players back(s).

So there may still be an opportunity to turn this Titanic around, but it needs to start with Cooper not doing what he did last night.  I fear it may be too late though.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #105 on: May 27, 2009, 01:29:26 pm »
It is compelling.

Dave Clark is an AA, just saying.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #106 on: May 27, 2009, 01:29:27 pm »
Talking about a man being fired is really uncomfortable for me, although I have been vocal that Cooper is in over his head on this job.  I was hoping he'd learned from the day he first took this job and was enthusiastic to carry on the work Phil Garner started and put into play the desire of Tal Smith for speed on this club.  Then when things got a little more frustrating for him, it just seemed like Cooper needed to learn really quickly how to react to these trying times a manager will go through.  I still remember his reaction to Micah Owings getting a homerun off Borkowski and how he immediately alienated the reliever. 

I thought he'd grow from that manager to a better clubhouse guy, but last night was more evidence that he has not.  I read Pinwheel's blog today and it bothered me.  Not that Cooper needs me to feel sorry for him, but he could have done so much to change the impression he started last year of his ability to have his players back(s).

So there may still be an opportunity to turn this Titanic around, but it needs to start with Cooper not doing what he did last night.  I fear it may be too late though.

Don't know if you noticed this little tidbit in JdJO's Game Notes from last night, from the bit about the team meeting (and really is there ANY point to team meetings?) "According to mutiple players, a veteran player also used the meeting to impore teammates not to air their disdain for Cooper to the media."

Granted this is through the JdJO-prism, so salt-lick, but disdain?  I find the wording interesting.  Not questioning, not disagreement...disdain.  Assuming that JdJO knows what that word actually means, that's kind of damning.


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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #107 on: May 27, 2009, 01:29:34 pm »
I read Pinwheel's blog today and it bothered me.

I make that mistake here and again, and it always bothers me.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #108 on: May 27, 2009, 01:36:23 pm »
Talking about a man being fired is really uncomfortable for me, although I have been vocal that Cooper is in over his head on this job.  I was hoping he'd learned from the day he first took this job and was enthusiastic to carry on the work Phil Garner started and put into play the desire of Tal Smith for speed on this club.  Then when things got a little more frustrating for him, it just seemed like Cooper needed to learn really quickly how to react to these trying times a manager will go through.  I still remember his reaction to Micah Owings getting a homerun off Borkowski and how he immediately alienated the reliever.  

I thought he'd grow from that manager to a better clubhouse guy, but last night was more evidence that he has not.  I read Pinwheel's blog today and it bothered me.  Not that Cooper needs me to feel sorry for him, but he could have done so much to change the impression he started last year of his ability to have his players back(s).

So there may still be an opportunity to turn this Titanic around, but it needs to start with Cooper not doing what he did last night.  I fear it may be too late though.

I know what you mean, but many people have been fired for failings that are much less egregious than his. He has a nice contract and (presumably) a healthy bank account, so it's not like we're talking about a guy who will struggle to make ends meet if he gets a pink slip. With that knowledge, I feel considerably more comfortable.

For me, I'm more concerned with the damage that Cooper can do to the players than anything. The younger players get incredibly mixed signals and sometimes awful advice, and some of the veterans get yanked in and out of roles that had been pretty well-defined up to this point.

It seems like the club would benefit from a manger with recent minor league experience to shepherd along the younger players. It would be ideal if he had a steady hand that would allow everyone to settle in for a while and focus on doing a specific job every day. I don't know if Clark possesses that quality, but at least he meets the first criteria. Settling for that and hoping for consistency (the actual kind, not the ironic kind) is something that I'm perfectly OK with at this point.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #109 on: May 27, 2009, 01:38:07 pm »
I'm in favor of hiring the tic-tac-toe playing chicken from Asheville and letting him peck out the lineup every day.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #110 on: May 27, 2009, 01:41:04 pm »
I'm in favor of hiring the tic-tac-toe playing chicken from Asheville and letting him peck out the lineup every day.

Is the swimming pig still in San Marcos?  He might be available.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #111 on: May 27, 2009, 01:45:37 pm »
What is Bill Spiers up to?
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #112 on: May 27, 2009, 01:45:45 pm »
Is the swimming pig still in San Marcos?  He might be available.

I'm starting to feel like you're not taking this exercise seriously, Andy. The chicken has minor league experience.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #113 on: May 27, 2009, 01:45:57 pm »
What is Bill Spiers up to?

Being awesome.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #114 on: May 27, 2009, 01:47:49 pm »
Don't put the baby in the bulldozer.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #115 on: May 27, 2009, 01:48:32 pm »
Spike has 10 years experience in Round Rock at the AA and AAA level. how about him?
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #116 on: May 27, 2009, 01:51:17 pm »
Spike has 10 years experience in Round Rock at the AA and AAA level. how about him?

Cito Gaston, oh nevermind he is with the BlueJays again.

In all seriousness, I really can see Pam wispering into Drayton's ear....Biggio.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 01:53:22 pm by Astroholic »

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #117 on: May 27, 2009, 01:53:23 pm »
Don't know if you noticed this little tidbit in JdJO's Game Notes from last night, from the bit about the team meeting (and really is there ANY point to team meetings?) "According to mutiple players, a veteran player also used the meeting to impore teammates not to air their disdain for Cooper to the media."

Granted this is through the JdJO-prism, so salt-lick, but disdain?  I find the wording interesting.  Not questioning, not disagreement...disdain.  Assuming that JdJO knows what that word actually means, that's kind of damning.



It's not that much of a stretch for it to be that bad already.  When you're around someone who's obviously in over their head, bewilderment turns to dislike or even hatred very quickly.  I'm sure most of us have been in a similar situation at work, either with a boss or co-worker.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #119 on: May 27, 2009, 01:59:23 pm »
If you're looking for a stop-gap, it will have to be from within (*cough* Dave Clark *cough*).  If you're thinking about the long term, then think Ed Wade and then move towards candidates from there.  Wade will want his guy in there, someone who he feels comfortable with and will implement his vision (like if Wade says "Michael Bourn is going to have a breakout year", the manager won't turn around and bat him 8th and then state he won't consider moving him to leadoff).

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #120 on: May 27, 2009, 02:05:11 pm »
If you're looking for a stop-gap, it will have to be from within (*cough* Dave Clark *cough*).  If you're thinking about the long term, then think Ed Wade and then move towards candidates from there.  Wade will want his guy in there, someone who he feels comfortable with and will implement his vision (like if Wade says "Michael Bourn is going to have a breakout year", the manager won't turn around and bat him 8th and then state he won't consider moving him to leadoff).

That is exactly what I'm thinking/hoping - replace Cooper with Clark for the remainder of the season, hoping for damage control combined with continuity. Let Wadesmith figure out where to go from there.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #121 on: May 27, 2009, 02:09:20 pm »
If you're looking for a stop-gap, it will have to be from within (*cough* Dave Clark *cough*).  If you're thinking about the long term, then think Ed Wade and then move towards candidates from there.  Wade will want his guy in there, someone who he feels comfortable with and will implement his vision (like if Wade says "Michael Bourn is going to have a breakout year", the manager won't turn around and bat him 8th and then state he won't consider moving him to leadoff).

Clark may get the interim tag (should Cooper get fired), but unless there's someone out of work or already in the org, any real movement towards getting Wade's guy (whoever that might be) couldn't really happen until the end of the season.

I don't recall a coach moving midseason to manage another team, but maybe it happens and I'm just oblivious to it.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #122 on: May 27, 2009, 02:13:20 pm »
I'm starting to feel like you're not taking this exercise seriously, Andy. The chicken has minor league experience.

It's not like I'm suggesting Arnold Ziffel be the manager.  Ralph is very smart.  So smart he probably wouldn't take Carlos Lee out of a tie home game in the bottom of the eighth inning.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #123 on: May 27, 2009, 02:17:12 pm »
It's not like I'm suggesting Arnold Ziffel be the manager.  Ralph is very smart.  So smart he probably wouldn't take Carlos Lee out of a tie home game in the bottom of the eighth inning.

not even to allow Michael to be up with a chance to tie or win it?
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #124 on: May 27, 2009, 02:17:45 pm »
Clark may get the interim tag (should Cooper get fired), but unless there's someone out of work or already in the org, any real movement towards getting Wade's guy (whoever that might be) couldn't really happen until the end of the season.

I don't recall a coach moving midseason to manage another team, but maybe it happens and I'm just oblivious to it.

Yes, that is what I would think could possibly happen if the Astros are entertaining the idea of moving Cooper out.  Clark is interim, gets a chance to interview (and may win the job) at the end of the season.  In the meantime, guys WadeSmith have both worked with will get an opportunity to work here after the season is over.  Heck, it may be Clarkie after all is said and done.  And then we'd have to reconsider what we call our new posters too.  Or maybe not.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #125 on: May 27, 2009, 02:18:54 pm »
not even to allow Michael to be up with a chance to tie or win it?

Alright it wasn't the worst thing he ever did.  But I would have left Lee in...

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #126 on: May 27, 2009, 02:20:08 pm »
Yes, that is what I would think could possibly happen if the Astros are entertaining the idea of moving Cooper out.  Clark is interim, gets a chance to interview (and may win the job) at the end of the season.  In the meantime, guys WadeSmith have both worked with will get an opportunity to work here after the season is over.  Heck, it may be Clarkie after all is said and done.  And then we'd have to reconsider what we call our new posters too.  Or maybe not.

Clark works on so many levels.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #127 on: May 27, 2009, 02:21:36 pm »
It's not like I'm suggesting Arnold Ziffel be the manager.  Ralph is very smart.  So smart he probably wouldn't take Carlos Lee out of a tie home game in the bottom of the eighth inning.

If he's so fucking smart, why is he still stuck in the same dead-end diving gig, huh? Answer me that. And don't play the species card either, because that's a complete cop-out.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #128 on: May 27, 2009, 02:21:52 pm »
Alright it wasn't the worst thing he ever did.  But I would have left Lee in...

hmmmm, let's see:

Carlos Lee or Jason Michaels when a HR would be good....

what to do. what to do.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #129 on: May 27, 2009, 02:21:55 pm »
Don't know if you noticed this little tidbit in JdJO's Game Notes from last night, from the bit about the team meeting (and really is there ANY point to team meetings?) "According to mutiple players, a veteran player also used the meeting to impore teammates not to air their disdain for Cooper to the media."

Granted this is through the JdJO-prism, so salt-lick, but disdain?  I find the wording interesting.  Not questioning, not disagreement...disdain.  Assuming that JdJO knows what that word actually means, that's kind of damning.



I took it as an overuse of hyperbole to accent a point.  However, when I read Pinwheel's blog, he mentioned that Cooper doesn't take advice from his own coaches (apparently not told to him first person, more like things he's heard in and around the MMPUS hallways).  I found that somewhat curious, seeing as how Cooper was a bench coach himself at one time.  In fact, I thought that was a real stretch in the blog to mention.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 02:23:39 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #130 on: May 27, 2009, 02:22:35 pm »
hmmmm, let's see:

Carlos Lee or Jason Michaels when a HR would be good....

what to do. what to do.

Well, I'd go with Ortiz, but he'd have lost his HR swing after Coop warmed him up 5 times.
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Noe

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #131 on: May 27, 2009, 02:22:49 pm »
If he's so fucking smart, why is he still stuck in the same dead-end diving gig, huh? Answer me that. And don't play the species card either, because that's a complete cop-out.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #132 on: May 27, 2009, 02:24:17 pm »
...And then we'd have to reconsider what we call our new posters too.  Or maybe not.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #133 on: May 27, 2009, 02:24:24 pm »
I took it as an overuse of hyperbole to accent a point.  However, when I read Pinwheel's blog, he mentioned that Cooper doesn't take advice from his own coaches (apparently not told to him first person, more like things he's heard in and around the MMPUS hallways).  I found that somewhat curious, seeing as how Cooper was a bench coach himself at one time.  In fact, I thought that was a really stretch in the blog to mention.

If it were first hand it would have come from Coop himself.  Impressions from those who work with him daily are pretty effective and damning.
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Andyzipp

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #134 on: May 27, 2009, 02:30:11 pm »
If he's so fucking smart, why is he still stuck in the same dead-end diving gig, huh? Answer me that. And don't play the species card either, because that's a complete cop-out.

Let me get this straight...he's an idiot for having a career where he lounges by a pool all day long, with breaks to be groped by scantily clad SWTS coeds?  I think he's set it up perfectly, and he'd be able to set a lineup with the same deadly precision.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #135 on: May 27, 2009, 02:31:05 pm »
hmmmm, let's see:

Carlos Lee or Jason Michaels when a HR would be good....

what to do. what to do.

Jason Michaels has long hair, though.  So there's that.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #136 on: May 27, 2009, 02:31:12 pm »
Just call new posters "Coopers". Easy-peasy, Matsui-ezey.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #137 on: May 27, 2009, 02:31:49 pm »
Just call new posters "Coopers". Easy-peasy, Matsui-ezey.

So a first-time poster is a Mini-Cooper?
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #138 on: May 27, 2009, 02:32:19 pm »
Jason Michaels has long hair, though.  So there's that.

Pretty sure you're thinking of Bret Michaels.  Or Shawn Michaels.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #139 on: May 27, 2009, 02:34:31 pm »
If he's so fucking smart, why is he still stuck in the same dead-end diving gig, huh? Answer me that. And don't play the species card either, because that's a complete cop-out.

because that is all he could do after they told him "we'll promote you when pigs fly."
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Noe

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #140 on: May 27, 2009, 02:35:35 pm »
One thing about Cooper is that he isn't a former Astro.  Not that that should count against him, Jimah Williams was not a former Astro either (in fact he was a former Brave coach, so there is that).  I think once Cooper goes away (if it happens), then it should be the end of the relationship.  In those terms a clean break being an effective break.

Now, if we were talking about a former player turned coach turned manager that was less than stellar, I could see naming a label after them.

That's just me though.

Noe

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #141 on: May 27, 2009, 02:36:51 pm »
because that is all he could do after they told him "we'll promote you when pigs fly."

I hear Lance Berkman is his favorite player.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #142 on: May 27, 2009, 02:37:28 pm »
because that is all he could do after they told him "we'll promote you when pigs fly."

Why do you think he keeps jumping off the diving board?
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #143 on: May 27, 2009, 02:37:49 pm »
Jason Michaels has long hair, though.  So there's that.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #144 on: May 27, 2009, 02:38:46 pm »
Now, if we were talking about a former player turned coach turned manager that was less than stellar, I could see naming a label after them.

Bogar.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #145 on: May 27, 2009, 02:39:26 pm »
So a first-time poster is a Mini-Cooper?

Yippee ki-yay, mini-sirloin-Cooper!
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #146 on: May 27, 2009, 02:41:15 pm »
Yippee ki-yay, mini-sirloin-Cooper!

I hope you get the clap.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #147 on: May 27, 2009, 02:47:04 pm »
I hope you get the clap.

To be fair, that joke was probably the result of syphilis.

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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #148 on: May 27, 2009, 04:19:56 pm »
Yippee ki-yay, mini-sirloin-Cooper!

Well, I thought it was funny.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #149 on: May 27, 2009, 04:25:31 pm »
Well, I thought it was funny.

Forgive me for saying so, but since you think anything in green tights is pure entertainment, I find your judging of funny a little terrifying.
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #150 on: May 27, 2009, 05:05:31 pm »
Forgive me for saying so, but since you think anything in green tights is pure entertainment, I find your judging of funny a little terrifying.

Speaking of which, and in light of the sudden hiatus of one of the board's bigger Firefly fans, is Nathan Fillion The Green Lantern?
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #151 on: May 27, 2009, 06:18:10 pm »
Forgive me for saying so, but since you think anything in green tights is pure entertainment, I find your judging of funny a little terrifying.

Do I get to be the gatekeeper of taste around here now that pravata's on admin leave?
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Re: One man's view of where this team stands
« Reply #152 on: May 28, 2009, 07:28:54 am »
It's not like I'm suggesting Arnold Ziffel be the manager.  Ralph is very smart.  So smart he probably wouldn't take Carlos Lee out of a tie home game in the bottom of the eighth inning.

Well, we'd have to be talkin' about one charming motherfucking pig.
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