ok, folks

[JimR]

every rumor of what WadeSmith might be doing before the deadline receives scorn and derision here.

SO:

what should he/they be doing? be specific.

[Taras Bulba]

Take note of Von Staufenberg's failure and move the briefcase a little closer to Drayton at the next executive meeting.

[JimR]

Take note of Von Staufenberg's failure and move the suitcase a little closer to Drayton at the next executive meeting.

and watch carefully for those thick and heavy wooden table legs.

[Jacksonian]

Perhaps nothing.  Try to get better pitchers through FA this winter.

Too, collecting FAs-to-be right now like Wolf might not be a bad idea either.  Short of dealing Johnson at AA and a few in Houston without no-trades if Wade can make a deal for guys like Wolf who, if they left via FA this winter, would likely net top level draft picks next June I wouldn't complain.

[ybbodeus]

Hopefully they are able to interpret this slump correctly by replacing the fluids in all coolers and water fountains with distilled rainwater.

POE
OPE
EOP
E4

[BudGirl]

With what seems to be a lack of tradable talent in the farm system, I think WadeSmith need to take a deal only if it is good for the future.  Otherwise, just bear with the rest of this season.  If Drayton wants to compete next season, he has to purchase it in the offseason.  Almost all purchases need to be in the form of pitching.

The only ones on the starting 25 roster I would trade would be Pence, Towles/Quintero, Erstad, Blum, Loretta, and Wiggington.  But that deal, better net a real prospect or pitching for next season.

I pretty much see the Astros in a bucket that they really can't get out.

[JimR]

Hopefully they are able to interpret this slump correctly by replacing the fluids in all coolers and water fountains with distilled rainwater.

POE
OPE
EOP
E4

one thing that can be said about you is that you are consistent.

[Astroholic]

With what seems to be a lack of tradable talent in the farm system, I think WadeSmith need to take a deal only if it is good for the future.  Otherwise, just bear with the rest of this season.  If Drayton wants to compete next season, he has to purchase it in the offseason.  Almost all purchases need to be in the form of pitching.

The only ones on the starting 25 roster I would trade would be Pence, Towles/Quintero, Erstad, Blum, Loretta, and Wiggington.  But that deal, better net a real prospect or pitching for next season.

I pretty much see the Astros in a bucket that they really can't get out.

I agree with your post.  It would have to be really good prospect for me to deal Pence.  I might look to flip some of the value (value?) in the pen if the price was right.

[MusicMan]

1.  Any move made should be judged by this criteria: can it help the team win in 2009 and beyond?  (2009 only because Drayton will insist on this.)
2.  Actively shop Erstad, Loretta, and Blum.  Seek best prospects available, regardless of position.
3.  Offer Ty Wigginton to the Dodgers for Kemp, LaRoche, or another young player.
4.  Call up Mark Saccomanno to play 3b.  Let's see how he can handle the job.  (Note: I am very pleased with Wigginton, I just consider him one of our top tradeable assets.)
5.  Make a decision on Valverde.  If he's in your long-term (beyond 2009) plans, fine.  If not, he might be the top closer available at the deadline, which could get a nice haul.

[austro]

I pretty much see the Astros in a bucket that they really can't get out.

I agree with this. I think the only solid prescription is to sit back and let WadeSmith/Heck draft and develop new blood. And that's going to mean sitting through a few years of lower-half baseball while they develop. You might be able to accelerate that process somewhat by trading Oswalt and Berkman, but that risks serious alienation of the fanbase.

Fixing this is going to take time. The other day someone mentioned the Cleveland-Montreal trade involving Colon. The complete deal was Colon and Tim Drew for Lee Stevens, Brandon Philips, Cliff Lee, and Grady Sizemore. That trade was made in June 2002. Sizemore was up for 40+ games in 2004, and full-time starting in 2005. I would expect the same sort of timeframe (3 years or so) for a payoff from anything the Astros might pull off this year.

[hostros7]

1.  Any move made should be judged by this criteria: can it help the team win in 2009 and beyond?  (2009 only because Drayton will insist on this.)
2.  Actively shop Erstad, Loretta, and Blum.  Seek best prospects available, regardless of position.
3.  Offer Ty Wigginton to the Dodgers for Kemp, LaRoche, or another young player.
4.  Call up Mark Saccomanno to play 3b.  Let's see how he can handle the job.  (Note: I am very pleased with Wigginton, I just consider him one of our top tradeable assets.)
5.  Make a decision on Valverde.  If he's in your long-term (beyond 2009) plans, fine.  If not, he might be the top closer available at the deadline, which could get a nice haul.

Agree definitely with 2 & 3.  Other than those players, I would keep the team as is unless you can get anything for Tejada...sadly he looks "past his prime" to put it nicely. Go balls out for Sheets in the offseason and Garland if you can afford it as well.  Start playing Bourn in CF every day and assess if he can actually be productive in 2009 in CF (unless you land a guy like Kemp for Wigginton).  Keep Lee, Berkman, Oswalt for sure.  Let Pence go only for a legit "can't miss" top of the rotation type, that still, as we all know, miss.  A lot of moving parts to that equation, and I don't envy the man whose job it is to try to fix it.

[JimR]

Agree definitely with 2 & 3.  Other than those players, I would keep the team as is unless you can get anything for Tejada...sadly he looks "past his prime" to put it nicely. Go balls out for Sheets in the offseason and Garland if you can afford it as well.  Start playing Bourn in CF every day and assess if he can actually be productive in 2009 in CF (unless you land a guy like Kemp for Wigginton).  Keep Lee, Berkman, Oswalt for sure.  Let Pence go only for a legit "can't miss" top of the rotation type, that still, as we all know, miss.  A lot of moving parts to that equation, and I don't envy the man whose job it is to try to fix it.

again, why does Bourn have to be "productive?"

that is Coopthink to me.

[austro]

1.  Any move made should be judged by this criteria: can it help the team win in 2009 and beyond?  (2009 only because Drayton will insist on this.)
2.  Actively shop Erstad, Loretta, and Blum.  Seek best prospects available, regardless of position.
3.  Offer Ty Wigginton to the Dodgers for Kemp, LaRoche, or another young player.
4.  Call up Mark Saccomanno to play 3b.  Let's see how he can handle the job.  (Note: I am very pleased with Wigginton, I just consider him one of our top tradeable assets.)
5.  Make a decision on Valverde.  If he's in your long-term (beyond 2009) plans, fine.  If not, he might be the top closer available at the deadline, which could get a nice haul.

I just think that this team is too flawed to compete even in 2009. If you accept that premise , Valverde seems like a luxury that you don't need in 2009. And after that I think he'll be too expensive to fit into the Astros plans for 2010 and beyond. Trading him now, while he's still got a year and a half on his contract, could bring a significant return.

I don't think Saccomanno's defense is good enough for him to stick at third. I realize that he's still recovering from a shoulder problem, so I'm ignoring his arm for the time being. But he just doesn't seem to me to have the range or quickness to be a major-league 3B. Maybe I'm wrong.

[MusicMan]

The "why", I think, is because they were counting on him to be able to both lead off and play outstanding CF.  There's no doubt about the latter, but whether or not it's fair, they have to have the former from him

[Jacksonian]

again, why does Bourn have to be "productive?"

that is Coopthink to me.

I think productive has to be defined.  I'd like to see him get on base at a 35% or better clip so that Berkman and Lee have more opportunities to drive in runs.  Also, getting on base more, IMO, will make Matsui a better hitter.

[MRaup]

I think productive has to be defined.  I'd like to see him get on base at a 35% or better clip so that Berkman and Lee have more opportunities to drive in runs.  Also, getting on base more, IMO, will make Matsui a better hitter.

In his last 1 games, he was getting on a 60% clip!

[Jacksonian]

In his last 1 games, he was getting on a 60% clip!

I like your thinkin'.  Now if he can just do that from the leadoff spot.

[Jacksonian]

1.  Any move made should be judged by this criteria: can it help the team win in 2009 and beyond?  (2009 only because Drayton will insist on this.)

I think they can be competitive in 2009 if they add the right starting pitching this winter.

2.  Actively shop Erstad, Loretta, and Blum.  Seek best prospects available, regardless of position.

I'm of 2 minds on this.  Prospects.  They'd have to be mlb starting caliber prospects and not just good enough to be bench player prospects.  Otherwise I'd rather keep Erstad, Loretta, and Blum and go for 2009.

3.  Offer Ty Wigginton to the Dodgers for Kemp, LaRoche, or another young player.

I would deal Wigginton only if they kept Blum because I don't think the Astros would get a Kemp or LaRoche caliber 3b prospect for him.  Too, IMO, Chris Johnson is going to be a very solid major league 3b.

4.  Call up Mark Saccomanno to play 3b.  Let's see how he can handle the job.  (Note: I am very pleased with Wigginton, I just consider him one of our top tradeable assets.)

I don't believe Saccomanno can be an everyday 3b.

5.  Make a decision on Valverde.  If he's in your long-term (beyond 2009) plans, fine.  If not, he might be the top closer available at the deadline, which could get a nice haul.

He's under club control through the end of next season.  He'd be relatively cheap next year.  If you deal him now you'll have to find a new closer for next year if you want to be competitive.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Play the young'uns.  I'd make Valverde, Geary, Byrdak, Wigginton, Tejada, Loretta, Blum, and Erstad available.  Only Valverde and Tejada offer any chance of getting you something worth giving up the player. 

This game is about pitching and defense:
1. Go after Wolf, try to sign him long term.
2. Go after Sheets or Garland, in that order.
3. Start Bourn and leave him in the lead off.  The offense isn't great, but even a great offense can't get back 7 runs. 
4.  I think Quintero needs to start as well, if healthy.  Towles either isn't ready yet or never will be. 

Questions I have:
Is Manzella worth a look?  If so, would trading Wigginton to open 3B, moving Tejada to third, and putting Manzella at SS, fix anything?  I can see an improvement w/ the glove.  However, I'm not totally certain about what's wrong w/ Tejada, at the plate and in the field.  He looks slower than he did early on.  Is he fatigued?  Would this move to 3B help in that case?  Or has the NL book on Tejada spread and he's just getting beat, plain and simple? 

[BudGirl]

I like your thinkin'.  Now if he can just do that from the leadoff spot.

Someone has to put him there for it to happen.

[Astroholic]

Someone has to put him there for it to happen.

I was thinking the same damn thing last night.  Errrrrrr!

[strosrays]

IMO, what they should do is clean house now and start piling up the prospects.  Three or four really bad seasons would be easier to take if there was a carrot on the end of the stick. 

Unfortunately, what I think they will do is keep doing just enough to stay barely mediocre - basically a repeat of this past off-season - as far into the future as one can see.  I'm not sure McLane has the inclination or the vision for a long-term rebuilding project and, if not, he won't tolerate anyone else in the organization who might strongly suggest one.

[JimR]

if they really think Sheets is coming, i would not break up the offense too quickly. i would offer Pence around to see what he will bring. he appears to me to have no idea of how to play, and his youth and potential may bring someone good. i would only trade him for a top prospect/player. i would trade Valverde at the deadline if he has serious value...and he may. ditto Tejada, but it must be for serious value.

if it is back up the truck time, my keepers are Berkman, Lee (probably), Pence (maybe), Oswalt, Wandy, Geary, Bourn (dammit, quit mishandling him), Matsui, and Wright. i probably forgot someone.

[Astroholic]

if they really think Sheets is coming, i would not break up the offense too quickly. i would offer Pence around to see what he will bring. he appears to me to have no idea of how to play, and his youth and potential may bring someone good. i would only trade him for a top prospect/player. i would trade Valverde at the deadline if he has serious value...and he may. ditto Tejada, but it must be for serious value.

if it is back up the truck time, my keepers are Berkman, Lee (probably), Pence (maybe), Oswalt, Wandy, Geary, Bourn (dammit, quit mishandling him), Matsui, and Wright. i probably forgot someone.

Catcher and 3B.

[Taras Bulba]

Catcher and 3B.

I don't think he forgot.

[Astroholic]

I don't think he forgot.

Not so much catcher, but I am interested in Jim's views on Wigginton.

[Kent's Moustache]

If the team is legitimately going to pursue the "pitching & defense" strategy, then why would Lee be untouchable?

[Astroholic]

If the team is legitimately going to pursue the "pitching & defense" strategy, then why would Lee be untouchable?

Other than his no trade clause, I don't think he would be.

[Andyzipp]

If it were me, I'd put everyone on the damn block but Berkman and Oswalt. 

And I'd throw Oswalt out there if the price was right.

But...I don't run the team. 

What I expect will actually happen is that Wade will try to acquire and retain Randy Wolf for as little as possible, and go balls in for Ben Sheets in the off-season.

I would love to be watching a team that is winning, but if I've got to watch a losing team, I'd rather it be younger players who are projected to get better, ala 1991.

[Astroholic]

If it were me, I'd put everyone on the damn block but Berkman and Oswalt. 

And I'd throw Oswalt out there if the price was right.

But...I don't run the team. 

What I expect will actually happen is that Wade will try to acquire and retain Randy Wolf for as little as possible, and go balls in for Ben Sheets in the off-season.

I would love to be watching a team that is winning, but if I've got to watch a losing team, I'd rather it be younger players who are projected to get better, ala 1991.

I would have done that four years ago, thus missing the WS in 05.  On the other hand, if you could add a Clemens/Pettitte (Sheets/Wolf) in the offseason it might get interesting.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I suspect they will play better before all is said and done.  But did anyone think this was a well constructed team?  Other than the offense, of course.  And on that topic, I think Coop has been enemy #1, over-managing the lineup about two months in.  My opinion, the roster remains mostly the same, with some of the role players traded.  TBehe big thing I see coming, Coop hits the bricks in the early part of next year.  I think that will be the biggest change we'll see, not a roster shake up. 

Besides, isn't this about the time the hitting coach takes one for the team?  I mean, Gaetti got fired for a team performing about as well, offensively, without nearly the talent this one is supposed to have.  When does Sean Berry get the heave ho? 

[Arky Vaughan]

If it were me, I'd put everyone on the damn block but Berkman and Oswalt. 

And I'd throw Oswalt out there if the price was right.

But...I don't run the team. 

What I expect will actually happen is that Wade will try to acquire and retain Randy Wolf for as little as possible, and go balls in for Ben Sheets in the off-season.

I would love to be watching a team that is winning, but if I've got to watch a losing team, I'd rather it be younger players who are projected to get better, ala 1991.

If they could duct-tape Pam Gardner to Oswalt, that might do more to enhance their long-term prospects than just about anything else.

[Gizzmonic]

  When does Sean Berry get the heave ho? 

I'm sure it's coming.  The Astros' hitting coach position is a revolving door.

[Andyzipp]

If they could duct-tape Pam Gardner to Oswalt, that might do more to enhance their long-term prospects than just about anything else.

You said a mouthful, mister!

[BudGirl]

Why not throw Robinson in the mix also, if you are dumping coaches?

[Andyzipp]

Why not throw Robinson in the mix also, if you are dumping coaches?

That's who I expect Drayton to fire in his annual "I'm doing stuff!!!" move.

[MusicMan]

That's who I expect Drayton to fire in his annual "I'm doing stuff!!!" move.

Will he shout "I drive a Dodge Stratus!!!"?

[OregonStrosFan]

I think they can be competitive in 2009 if they add the right starting pitching this winter.

Which is why I am in no particular hurry to disband this offense (as 'dysfunctional' as it may currently seem), although I think it is going to take 2 starters, not one (Sheets and ???). 

[JimR]

Lee's defense in LF does not bother me, and he is a better run producer than Berkman. I want to keep them together as a 1-2 punch to build around.

I like Wiggy and would welcome him back.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Lee's defense in LF does not bother me, and he is a better run producer than Berkman. I want to keep them together as a 1-2 punch to build around.

I like Wiggy and would welcome him back.

Wiggy is my favorite player right now.  He's not the most talented but I've never questioned his effort.  If I had to put a finger on it, I'd say he's the closest to Bagwell, in character, out of all the players on the roster.  There is no show-boating or flamboyant display of machismo.   He plays. 

[Arky Vaughan]

Wiggy is my favorite player right now.  He's not the most talented but I've never questioned his effort.  If I had to put a finger on it, I'd say he's the closest to Bagwell, in character, out of all the players on the roster.  There is no show-boating or flamboyant display of machismo.   He plays.

I'll take .270/.357/.450 from the third baseman year in, year out.

[das]

I'll take .270/.357/.450 from the third baseman year in, year out.

Me too.  That's what I've been most impressed about over the last 1 1/2 years, his amazing consistancy.  You don't particularly need hot hitters to construct a solid team, you need consistant hitters.