One injustice, somewhat remedied:

[MusicMan]

UT has revised its policy on retiring player numbers, and will be honoring a host of UT legends including Vince Young, Bobby Layne, and Tommy Nobis in football.

Amongst all the VY brouhaha will probably be missed that #21 will now hang twice at the Disch, honoring Swindell alongside Clemens.

[JimR]

UT has revised its policy on retiring player numbers, and will be honoring a host of UT legends including Vince Young, Bobby Layne, and Tommy Nobis in football.

Amongst all the VY brouhaha will probably be missed that #21 will now hang twice at the Disch, honoring Swindell alongside Clemens.

that screws Gideon, who also was much better than DQ at UT.

[MusicMan]

Hence the "somewhat".

I'll also miss the tradition of MLB's earning the right to wear #60.

[JackAstro]

Link

[MusicMan]

Link

I love how both Hooton and Swindell are described as possibly the greatest college pitcher ever.  And yet Clemen$ i$ the only jer$ey up there.

[JimR]

Hence the "somewhat".

I'll also miss the tradition of MLB's earning the right to wear #60.

His Excellency Coach Brown did not honor that tradition. i read the list, and Moreland's not on it. baffling.

UT finally retired my number, and it is about time. when you see that 23 on the wall, think of me.

[Rebel Jew]

Link

my dad has a football signed by bobby layne, and has always considered it one of his most prized posessions.  when i was a kid, all my friends would ask who it was and i would have a difficult time explaining.

don't know what kind of message it sends that durant can have his number retired at a school where he only spent one year.  sign of the times, i guess.

[MRaup]

Durant won player of the year award. He was in before or after the thought process train.

[MusicMan]

Durant won player of the year award. He was in before or after the thought process train.

Yes, but by that reasoning, so was VY.

[Rebel Jew]

Durant won player of the year award. He was in before or after the thought process train.

seems like these retired jerseys things, especially at the college level, are about much more than just one good season.  loyalty, etc.

does anybody know the policy for women's sports?  seems odd that the men's and women's departments are split.

[geezerdonk]

does anybody know the policy for women's sports? 

Man I'm glad you asked that question. This has been nagging me for years. I sure hope somebody has the answer.

[Craig]

seems like these retired jerseys things, especially at the college level, are about much more than just one good season.  loyalty, etc.

does anybody know the policy for women's sports?  seems odd that the men's and women's departments are split.

Women's jerseys can be retired the same as men's, but they are always hung from a glass ceiling.

[Jacksonian]

Women's jerseys can be retired the same as men's, but they are always hung from a glass ceiling.

Nominated.  Congrats.

[kevwun]

when you see that 23 on the wall, think of me.

Another Brenham resident, Dustin Majewski, also wore 23.

[JimR]

No, VY never won what it took for number retiremen-the Heisman. Make no mistake-this change is for him. Durant made it under the old criteria.

[JimR]

The women wanted their own department per Donna Lopiano.

[ybbodeus]

Seems odd to be retiring a one and done (KD), even if he was a sensational player and a solid kid.

Are Brewer's and Krivac's numbers retired?  LaSalle's?  Moore's?  Those were the Horns I saw play and who impressed me most when I was in college.

[kevwun]

He won both player of the year awards and is the best longhorn basketball player ever.  It doesn't matter that he did it all in only one year.

[Rebel Jew]

He won both player of the year awards and is the most recent best longhorn basketball player ever.

[austro]

Who was better? Nobody I've seen since '74.

[Rebel Jew]

Who was better? Nobody I've seen since '74.

tj ford for sure, especially in terms of impact to the program.  lasalle thompson was pretty good also, not to mention travis mays.  it's hard to evaluate the modern one and done player in the same way as those who stayed and grew with the program.

[austro]

tj ford for sure, especially in terms of impact to the program.  lasalle thompson was pretty good also, not to mention travis mays.  it's hard to evaluate the modern one and done player in the same way as those who stayed and grew with the program.

Ford might have had more impact, especially from a recruiting standpoint (i.e., putting Texas on the national map). But there is no way Thompson and Mays, both of whom I really thought a lot of (Mays especially), had more impact than Durant.

My favorite recent UT player, just in terms of heart and playing to the top of his ability, is probably Royal Ivey.

[ybbodeus]

tj ford for sure, especially in terms of impact to the program.  lasalle thompson was pretty good also, not to mention travis mays.  it's hard to evaluate the modern one and done player in the same way as those who stayed and grew with the program.

Agreed.  I'm not mocking the decision; I'm merely suggesting that in a rush to praise the player if they shouldn't also consider the building blocks who helped build the program into something more than merely respectqble prior to Barnes' arrival.  Abe Lemons had them on the cusp of greatness.  Looking back, Wacker's injury probably robbed Texas of its first modern day Final Four run.  That was one bad ass team. 

I'm an outsider on this one, admittedly, but I wasn't merely relying on newspaper recaps to judge the program.  I saw a lot of those late 70's/early 80's teams.  In an era in which fewer teams were included, Texas was a genuine force.

[austro]

I'm an outsider on this one, admittedly, but I wasn't merely relying on newspaper recaps to judge the program.  I saw a lot of those late 70's/early 80's teams.  In an era in which fewer teams were included, Texas was a genuine force.

In the sense that nobody wanted to play them (example: Missouri losing to UT in the Sweet 16), they were a force. But nobody took them as a serious Final Four possibility prior to Ford. Krivacs was amusing, Moore was great, Thompson was impressive, BMW was fun, but none were ever a threat to unseat UNC/Duke/UNLV/etc. With the Ford and Durant teams, you could at least imagine such an outcome.

[Rebel Jew]

Ford might have had more impact, especially from a recruiting standpoint (i.e., putting Texas on the national map). But there is no way Thompson and Mays, both of whom I really thought a lot of (Mays especially), had more impact than Durant.

My favorite recent UT player, just in terms of heart and playing to the top of his ability, is probably Royal Ivey.

ford led them to a final four, which durant did not.  ford got them a one seed in the tourney, which durant did not.  ford was a more polished player his second year, durant...

agree about ivey.  i remember hearing rick barnes on the radio during ivey's first or second year talking about how when he recruited him in new york, even ivey's family was wondering why.  now he's in the nba.

[ybbodeus]

God, how I love reading about hoops on the baseball board, especially this one?

Everybody's making great points.  Bottom line is that in an era dominated by stronger, truly established programs, Texas was damned close to upsetting their apple cart in the late 70's, early 80's. 

Today, I'd say it's not unreasonable to declar that Texas is on the verge of matching KU, UCLA, South Virginia (UNC) and Dook for tier one presence.  I don't think Billy Clyde will have Kentrucky there just yet, but he's in the right place to try, and Pitt/Georgetown are pusing.  Lousyville is about there, too, but Memphis appears to be the most certain program to rival Texas for that kind of respectability.

I was at Baylor when Vinnie Johnson and Terry Teagle were there.  Vinnie was without a doubt the most unique player I'd ever seen to that point.....and for a decade, maybe two after.  The one year he and Terry played together was a lot of fun to watch.  Texas and Arkansas ruled the SWC roost, but Baylor made 'em sweat every time they played.....in Waco, anyway.

[austro]

I was at Rice when Bullock was at Tech, the Triplets were at Arkansas, Birdsong was at UH, Krivacs/Moore were at UT, etc. Just as the SWC was beginning to really discover basketball. Of course I'm biased, but the sweetest basketball player that I saw during that era was Rice's own Elbert Darden. He was just smooth as butter, and he and Birdsong put on some epic battles. I think that Darden left for divinity school after Rice and didn't play any more, but he was fun to watch. He could jump, he could shoot, and he always seemed to be in the right place on defense.

[austro]

I was at Baylor when Vinnie Johnson and Terry Teagle were there.  Vinnie was without a doubt the most unique player I'd ever seen to that point.....and for a decade, maybe two after.  The one year he and Terry played together was a lot of fun to watch.  Texas and Arkansas ruled the SWC roost, but Baylor made 'em sweat every time they played.....in Waco, anyway.

That's cool. One of my high school friends (Larry Rogowski) wound up as a point guard at Baylor just prior to that (he went to junior college and then went to Baylor as a junior). That didn't stop me from jeering him when he came to Rice.

[JimR]

Durant is the best player I have seen at UT, and I have been watching since the 50s.

Lemons was a disaster but was entertaining to listen to.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Durant was amazing, there's never been a basketball player at UT that had the season that he had.

Lemons had his problems but he also had his moments. Coach of the year in '78. Calling him a disaster seems a bit hard.

[MusicMan]

No, VY never won what it took for number retiremen-the Heisman. Make no mistake-this change is for him. Durant made it under the old criteria.

The rule, as I understood it, was to win at least one national player of the year award.  VY won the Maxwell, so he was technically eligible.

[Rebel Jew]

Today, I'd say it's not unreasonable to declar that Texas is on the verge of matching KU, UCLA, South Virginia (UNC) and Dook for tier one presence.  I don't think Billy Clyde will have Kentrucky there just yet, but he's in the right place to try, and Pitt/Georgetown are pusing.  Lousyville is about there, too, but Memphis appears to be the most certain program to rival Texas for that kind of respectability.

the difference here is that all these other programs you mention as being close are already top tier hoops programs and have been for generations.  texas is still football first, and long-term that is what will get the first consideration from fans, alumni, prep stars, etc.  things are better with the improvements to gregory gym and the erwin center, but i doubt UT can ever be a year-in-year-out top ten hoops program.  they will continue to be competitive as long as barnes is the coach, but it will take a lot to establish the kind of basketball institutions that those other schools have.  keep in mind that despite the amount of nba talent that has come through the program recently, and rick barnes making the team perennial contenders in the big 12, the team has made one final four since the 40's, and hasn't really had a team since then that was a consensus favorite to get there.  it's almost akin to saying that kansas had a BCS year in football so they're right on the verge of tier one football presence.  as long as mangino's the coach, they'll be competitive, but it'll take a lot for them to get to the level of nebraska and florida state, even though they've been better than those two schools the last couple of years.

[JimR]

No, MM, he was not eligible.that award did not count.I think retiring his number is a good idea, if you start down that road, but this was the only way to do it.

Lemons was a disaster, yyubodeus, or whatever your name is. Were you here? Do you know?  I am not talking about during games. He was a disaster, and he got his ass fired.

[ybbodeus]

Just posing questions, Jim.  I admired the style of play Abe's teams had, and he seemed to be building a team that was poised to overtake the Hogs and Cougars for league dominance in '82.  I mean, if Wacker doesn't get injured Abe's last year, no telling what might have been. 

In terms of his being a disaster, you're right, I wasn't there.  That's why I was asking the questions I did, knowing how many Ex's were here who might know.  I know there were problems, but I didn't realize that his transgressions rose to the level of disaster.  Maybe that explains why Dodds went the opposite direction in hiring Weltlich.  I grew up an Ole Miss fan and actually thought Weltlich would work out great there with UT's resources.  Given what he'd managed to do at Ole Miss and with the Bob Knight pedigree, it seemed a good move. 

I'll admit I'm a tad biased in favor of Abe, as my grandfather was big on Abe from his days at Pan American (grandpa was a farmer in the Rio Grande Valley, where Abe was quite literally the only show in town....hell, in the area code).

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I'll admit I'm a tad biased in favor of Abe...

I guess I am too. But, he did have a way of alienating people, often the people he most needed on his side. That gets old if you're on the other end. I understand that.

[Ron Brand]

I was in school during part of Abe's tenure and as students, I and my friends loved Abe, he could do no wrong.  The veneer cracked a little in 1982 when you could see that he didn't have much of a plan B after Wacker went down, and now that I'm a little (ok, quite a bit) older I can see that he was no doubt a very large problem for the administration because he was used to doing things on his own terms without having to worry about the other considerations important to UT and the larger stage they operated on.  It was at best a clumsy fit that couldn't last, but it sure was entertaining if you were a student back then.

[JimR]

Youb were not asking questions.

Abe thought he was in charge. He refused any direction. He got his ass fired for insubordination.

[Kent's Moustache]

His Excellency Coach Brown did not honor that tradition. i read the list, and Moreland's not on it. baffling.

UT finally retired my number, and it is about time. when you see that 23 on the wall, think of me.

Wrong again.  Derrick Johnson and Dusty Renfro have both worn #60 during Mack's tenure.

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2004/11/24/Sports/Memorable.Number.Back.In.Style-814924.shtml

"I'm excited that a player in 2004 cares enough about tradition that he called Tommy Nobis and asked permission to wear No. 60," Texas coach Mack Brown said. "Derrick said he wanted to wear it for all the great defensive players in the history of Texas. For a guy with No. 11 jerseys all over the stadium, that's a great message."

I don't understand the need among a certain faction of "old school" Texas fans to demonize Brown, particularly in light of the way in which he has encouraged reconnecting to our traditions--including bringing Coach Royal meaningfully back into the program--and fielded consistent winners.  It was a long time between 1970 and 2005.

[JimR]

Wrong again.  Derrick Johnson and Dusty Renfro have both worn #60 during Mack's tenure.

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2004/11/24/Sports/Memorable.Number.Back.In.Style-814924.shtml

"I'm excited that a player in 2004 cares enough about tradition that he called Tommy Nobis and asked permission to wear No. 60," Texas coach Mack Brown said. "Derrick said he wanted to wear it for all the great defensive players in the history of Texas. For a guy with No. 11 jerseys all over the stadium, that's a great message."

I don't understand the need among a certain faction of "old school" Texas fans to demonize Brown, particularly in light of the way in which he has encouraged reconnecting to our traditions--including bringing Coach Royal meaningfully back into the program--and fielded consistent winners.  It was a long time between 1970 and 2005.

do not lecture me about being a Longhorn fan, and at least learn what the tradition was. Derrick Johnson's number was 11, and his wearing #60 was a PR deal, not something awarded to him to wear for the entire season. now please tell me Dusty Renfro wore #60 because of the tradition of wearing it all season it in the footsteps of Nobis.

i am not demonizing MB, and his efforts to bring DKR back was a good thing. he won a NC by being smart enough to turn VY loose. MB is a PR machine with a program that grew soft and corrupt in the locker room. he has won ONE championship his entire career. his media guide and scoreboad talk about and trumpet the "Mack Brown Era," not UT football. he has got the thinnest skin this side of Fred Akers.

after all the recent emabarrassments, he has tried to get what passes for tough for him, and i hope he is successful. let's wait and see without canonizing him further.

[Rebel Jew]

do not lecture me about being a Longhorn fan, and at least learn what the tradition was. Derrick Johnson's number was 11, and his wearing #60 was a PR deal, not something awarded to him to wear for the entire season. now please tell me Dusty Renfro wore #60 because of the tradition of wearing it all season it in the footsteps of Nobis.

i am not demonizing MB, and his efforts to bring DKR back was a good thing. he won a NC by being smart enough to turn VY loose. MB is a PR machine with a program that grew soft and corrupt in the locker room. he has won ONE championship his entire career. his media guide and scoreboad talk about and trumpet the "Mack Brown Era," not UT football. he has got the thinnest skin this side of Fred Akers.

after all the recent emabarrassments, he has tried to get what passes for tough for him, and i hope he is successful. let's wait and see without canonizing him further.

hey jim, what's your take on the whole simms-applewhite fiasco?  i know a lot of people will never forgive mack for the way he handled that, the colorado game especially sticking out, and the conspiracy still exists that he had a behind-the-scenes agreement with papa simms.

[JimR]

hey jim, what's your take on the whole simms-applewhite fiasco?  i know a lot of people will never forgive mack for the way he handled that, the colorado game especially sticking out, and the conspiracy still exists that he had a behind-the-scenes agreement with papa simms.

i'm not getting into that here. the conspiracy people are fucking idiots.

all i will say is that the team chose its leader and informed MB who they wanted by sending Mock in to tell him. it was not Major.

[tophfar]

i'm not getting into that here. the conspiracy people are fucking idiots.

all i will say is that the team chose its leader and informed MB who they wanted by sending Mock in to tell him. it was not Major.

I don't know the details on whatever behind the scenes shennanigans were going on over there, but as an Aggie, I could not have been more relieved that it was Simms and not Applewhite that started the '99 game. 

I do not know that we win it otherwise.

[Duke]

I don't know the details on whatever behind the scenes shennanigans were going on over there, but as an Aggie, I could not have been more relieved that it was Simms and not Applewhite that started the '99 game. 

I do not know that we win it otherwise.

I think Applewhite was sick or hurt that game and Simms had to start.  MB had a funny quote then.  He said starting your first game as QB in College Station was like losing your virginity to Madonna.

[tophfar]

I think Applewhite was sick or hurt that game and Simms had to start.  MB had a funny quote then.  He said starting your first game as QB in College Station was like losing your virginity to Madonna.

Flu symptons or somesuch if i remember right.

[drew corleone]

Holy shit... can we PLEASE not re-hash Simms-Applewhite?

And "shenanigans" had nothing to do with 99 Texas-Texas A&M. Applewhite had either food poisoning or the flu... but it wasn't the drama factor of 2000/2001.

[sporadic]

hey jim, what's your take on the whole simms-applewhite fiasco?  i know a lot of people will never forgive mack for the way he handled that, the colorado game especially sticking out, and the conspiracy still exists that he had a behind-the-scenes agreement with papa simms.

Was it some sort of conspiracy to put the best QB on the field?  Check their avg wins a season as starters and get back with me.  CS is villafied by a huge number of Texas fans, while MA is given god like status, both for no good reason.  One was average, one was good, and 90% of the people I speak to confuse which is which.

[JimR]

I don't know the details on whatever behind the scenes shennanigans were going on over there, but as an Aggie, I could not have been more relieved that it was Simms and not Applewhite that started the '99 game. 

I do not know that we win it otherwise.

Applewhite was sick and could not play. Simms was a true freshman who should have redshirted but could not b/c Dunn left. there was no choice about who started the game, and Simms had a 16-6 lead at the half. our offense and defense stayed in the locker room during the second half, and Major played the 4th quarter, or tried to, but he was no better.

your fucking "behind the scenes shenanigans" comment demonstrates why i never should have replied. very little rational is said by UT "fans" about this issue.

[drew corleone]

Applewhite was sick and could not play. Simms was a true freshman who should have redshirted but could not b/c Dunn left. there was no choice about who started the game, and Simms had a 16-6 lead at the half. our offense and defense stayed in the locker room during the second half, and Major played the 4th quarter, or tried to, but he was no better.

your fucking "behind the scenes shenanigans" comment demonstrates why i never should have replied. very little rational is said by UT "fans" about this issue.

Agreed on that, but he did say "as an Aggie."

Of course "behind the scenes shenanigans" could refer to the late night harassing phone calls at the B/CS Ramada Inn or the issues with serving the team breakfast. I don't think either caused the outcome the next day, but there was a confluence of events that didn't help the Horns overcome their less-than-stellar play on the field.

[JimR]

Agreed on that, but he did say "as an Aggie."

Of course "behind the scenes shenanigans" could refer to the late night harassing phone calls at the B/CS Ramada Inn or the issues with serving the team breakfast. I don't think either caused the outcome the next day, but there was a confluence of events that didn't help the Horns overcome their less-than-stellar play on the field.

Applewhite had the flu.

[ybbodeus]

I guess he's cleared medically to play, even though TB isn't playing him.  What about that issue?  I mean, when I heard the extent of his injury, I just assumed he was done.

[JimR]

I guess he's cleared medically to play, even though TB isn't playing him.  What about that issue?  I mean, when I heard the extent of his injury, I just assumed he was done.

i do not know. i had assumed he's healthy.

[tophfar]

your fucking "behind the scenes shenanigans" comment demonstrates why i never should have replied. very little rational is said by UT "fans" about this issue.

Players making the decisions and "informing" a coach is still behind the scenes, any way you want to cut that.  i dont particularly care one way or the other about either player, or Mac Brown's or the players decision to play whomever.

all i can say, is that as a disinterested outside observer, Applewhite always seemed to make the better on field choices.  

[JimR]

Players making the decisions and "informing" a coach is still behind the scenes, any way you want to cut that.  i dont particularly care one way or the other about either player, or Mac Brown's or the players decision to play whomever.

all i can say, is that as a disinterested outside observer, Applewhite always seemed to make the better on field choices.  

that did not happen in 99. Applewhite had the flu. reread my answer to you.

good for you, Ag. i'm sure you watched all the games. legend has it, Major was undefeated and never threw an interception.

i also love the "Mac" Brown. keen observer, you.

[Duke]

that did not happen in 99. Applewhite had the flu. reread my answer to you.

good for you, Ag. i'm sure you watched all the games. legend has it, Major was undefeated and never threw an interception.

i also love the "Mac" Brown. keen observer, you.

I believe Chris' record as a starter was 26-6.  Not too shabby.

[tophfar]

good for you, Ag. i'm sure you watched all the games. legend has it, Major was undefeated and never threw an interception.

i also love the "Mac" Brown. keen observer, you.

i also love the [lack of capitalization]. keen observer, you.

[tophfar]

I believe Chris' record as a starter was 26-6.  Not too shabby.

And Applewhite was 22-8. And still retains most of the passing records.  Im not sure why I involved myself in this.  I could care less about the two QB's except for the one singular game.

[sporadic]

all i can say, is that as a disinterested outside observer, Applewhite always seemed to make the better on field choices.  

That did not equate to wins and losses...see below

Simms - 3rd Best Winning Percentage (Career) - 26-6, 0.812 (Behind Bobby Layne and Vince Young).

Applewhite - career record of 22-8 (.733) as a starter

[tophfar]

That did not equate to wins and losses...see below

Simms - 3rd Best Winning Percentage (Career) - 26-6, 0.812 (Behind Bobby Layne and Vince Young).

Applewhite - career record of 22-8 (.733) as a starter

Really, that two game difference in starting records means that much to you in evaluation of a player?  That's pure insanity.

[JimR]

And Applewhite was 22-8. And still retains most of the passing records.  Im not sure why I involved myself in this.  I could care less about the two QB's except for the one singular game.

should be easy to be quiet then...since you don't care and all.

[tophfar]

should be easy to be quiet then...since you don't care and all.

It should be, but I am not very smart sometimes.

[ybbodeus]

i do not know. i had assumed he's healthy.

The loss of his spleen from that mega hit he took in '06 against the Panthers or Falcons; can't remember.  I gather the loss of a spleen isn't as serious as might once have been thought, in this day and age of medical miracles and antibiotics.  Still, I don't want to lose mine.

[sporadic]

The loss of his spleen from that mega hit he took in '06 against the Panthers or Falcons; can't remember.  I gather the loss of a spleen isn't as serious as might once have been thought, in this day and age of medical miracles and antibiotics.  Still, I don't want to lose mine.

I'm kind of partial to all of my internal organs

[JimR]

The loss of his spleen from that mega hit he took in '06 against the Panthers or Falcons; can't remember.  I gather the loss of a spleen isn't as serious as might once have been thought, in this day and age of medical miracles and antibiotics.  Still, I don't want to lose mine.

yeah, i know, but i thought he was ready again.

[Limey]

I'm kind of partial to all of my internal organs

I still have my appendix and my tonsils.

[ybbodeus]

Should be interesting to see which way this thread goes next....

[Ty in Tampa]

Simms was not healthy last season. He was tentative and evidently, still experiencing some sort of discomfort (many suspect mental). In the offseason, he complained publicly about his situation (forced to compete for back-up with Luke McCown and newly-re-acquired Brian Griese) and was essentially shit-canned. They are keeping him on the roster through camp even though he's not participating.

[sporadic]

yeah, i know, but i thought he was ready again.

Ready enough for there to be a trade market for him...

In addition to the the Cowboys, both the Lions and the Bears have inquired about Simms’ availability, according to the Tampa Tribune.

I don't know how he fell out of favor with Gruden, but being 5th on Tampa's depth chart seems a little out of whack to me.  He would be considered an upgrade - as a starting quaterback - for a few teams, IMO (the Bears, Vikings, Chiefs, Dolphins, Bills and 49ers all initially come to mind)

[Kent's Moustache]

do not lecture me about being a Longhorn fan, and at least learn what the tradition was. Derrick Johnson's number was 11, and his wearing #60 was a PR deal, not something awarded to him to wear for the entire season. now please tell me Dusty Renfro wore #60 because of the tradition of wearing it all season it in the footsteps of Nobis.

I'm well aware that Renfro and Johnson wore #60 only for select games.

Have you stopped to consider, Jim, that young, badass LBs in the 21st Century don't want to wear the #60 for an entire season?  Or, any number higher than #49, for that matter?  Take a look around college football and count the number of LBs whom you see sporting "old school" LB numbers in the 50s and 60s.

Times have changed.  These kids didn't grow up watching Nobis and Butkus.  They grew up idolizing the Miami and Florida State LBs of the 1990s, whose jersey numbers mostly coincided with backs and kickers, not OLs.  Look at the numbers that Texas' best LBs in recent seasons have chosen for themselves.  #11.  #2.  #38.

But, no, it's all Mack's fault, right?  Spare me the "lecturing" crap.  In the words of the master, WFW.

[MusicMan]

Simms was not healthy last season. He was tentative and evidently, still experiencing some sort of discomfort (many suspect mental).

I'm not putting this on you, Ty, but after the man played through an entire fucking game with a ruptured spleen, anyone questioning his mental toughness is a fucking idiot and should be forcibly confined to whatever the football equivalent of AD is.

[kevwun]

No shit, he could have died from internal bleeding.

[JimR]

I'm well aware that Renfro and Johnson wore #60 only for select games.

Have you stopped to consider, Jim, that young, badass LBs in the 21st Century don't want to wear the #60 for an entire season?  Or, any number higher than #49, for that matter?  Take a look around college football and count the number of LBs whom you see sporting "old school" LB numbers in the 50s and 60s.

Times have changed.  These kids didn't grow up watching Nobis and Butkus.  They grew up idolizing the Miami and Florida State LBs of the 1990s, whose jersey numbers mostly coincided with backs and kickers, not OLs.  Look at the numbers that Texas' best LBs in recent seasons have chosen for themselves.  #11.  #2.  #38.

But, no, it's all Mack's fault, right?  Spare me the "lecturing" crap.  In the words of the master, WFW.

changed your tune, eh? now it is the kids who do not want the tradition. yesterday you were asserting that Your Hero was maintaining the tradition. you're just one more sycophant at the feet of the best PR guy since Clinton.

i am a UT football fan. the tradition is UT football, and it began way before you and i were born. it is not ALL about the "Mack Brown" era. he has had a great run if championships do not matter to you. i like him, and i like what he has accomplished. he is a great recruiter and a good CEO, but UT football is bigger than the huge PR machine that currently resides in Bellmont.

[Ty in Tampa]

I'm not putting this on you, Ty, but after the man played through an entire fucking game with a ruptured spleen, anyone questioning his mental toughness is a fucking idiot and should be forcibly confined to whatever the football equivalent of AD is.

I agree. But whining about the contract he signed the offseason after the injury and sitting out of camp is not winning him any supporters. Not to mention he was 0-3 with 1 TD and 6 INTS before the ruptured spleen. From a football sense, most everyone agreed with what the Bucs had to do.

He announced today he'll be in camp.

[Kent's Moustache]

changed your tune, eh? now it is the kids who do not want the tradition. yesterday you were asserting that Your Hero was maintaining the tradition. you're just one more sycophant at the feet of the best PR guy since Clinton.

I didn't change dick.  Unless you're suggesting that Mack force a Rod Muckelroy or a Sergio Kindle to wear #60, then how can it possibly be Mack's fault that only a couple of our recent LBs have worn #60?

Furthermore, as a UT football fan, I'm sure you've noticed that our LB play hasn't exactly been stellar during the Mack Brown era.  In fact, one could very reasonably argue that our LBs have been the defense's weak link over the course of the past several seasons.  Did you really want to see Mack putting, e.g., D.D. Lewis, Aaron Harris, or Robert Killebrew in #60?

IMO, Renfro and Johnson wore #60 because they earned it.  Frankly, no one other than those two has earned that right in the last decade.  I'd love to see a Muckelroy or Norton or Robinson earn that right in the near future.

[JackAstro]

I didn't change dick.  Unless you're suggesting that Mack force a Rod Muckelroy or a Sergio Kindle to wear #60, then how can it possibly be Mack's fault that only a couple of our recent LBs have worn #60?

Furthermore, as a UT football fan, I'm sure you've noticed that our LB play hasn't exactly been stellar during the Mack Brown era.  In fact, one could very reasonably argue that our LBs have been the defense's weak link over the course of the past several seasons.  Did you really want to see Mack putting, e.g., D.D. Lewis, Aaron Harris, or Robert Killebrew in #60?

IMO, Renfro and Johnson wore #60 because they earned it.  Frankly, no one other than those two has earned that right in the last decade.  I'd love to see a Muckelroy or Norton or Robinson earn that right in the near future.

Maybe I'm crazy, but D.D. Lewis was no slouch out there. I would not even begin to lump him in with Killebrew.

[kevwun]

Lewis has managed to stick in the NFL for 5 years also.  He took a lot of heat his senior season that should have been directed at Carl Reese instead.

[Kent's Moustache]

Maybe I'm crazy, but D.D. Lewis was no slouch out there. I would not even begin to lump him in with Killebrew.

I'm not saying that Lewis was bad, but watch some game film of the 2001 Big 12 title game for a primer on how not to play "Mike" LB.  CU's very good OL exposed his fundamental shortcomings (e.g., taking false steps, playing with his shoulders perpendicular to the LoS, over-pursuing and not playing inside-out) all day long, and Chris Brown ran wild, accordingly.

As Longhorn fans, we tend to over-remember Simms' mistakes and the roughing-the-punter penalty on Geiggar, but under-remember how poorly our defense played against the run and how Barnett all but let us back into the game with that moronic fake punt call that Rod Babers returned for a pick-six.

As for Lewis' pro career, it's noteworthy to me that he has made a career in the League as an outside LB, which plays to his strengths (his natural athletic ability) rather than his weaknesses (his fundamentals).