Author Topic: 2008 Draft Thread  (Read 150943 times)

Duman

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2008 Draft Thread
« on: June 05, 2008, 07:10:20 am »
Here is your draft war room to discuss picks, share info you have about players picked.  Enjoy
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 05:22:32 pm by Duman »
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Jacksonian

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 09:43:59 am »
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/mock-draft/2008/266271.html

Callis seems more non-commital on his projections than at any time I can remember.  He has Skipworth at 10 with Crow at 9 but is equivocal.  If he's even close to right the Astros could end up with either.  My feeling is they would kill to get Skipworth.  Of course he's no help for the immediate future.  If he's wrong on Beckham to the Rays this entire projection goes out the window.
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MusicMan

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 09:44:41 am »
Mentioned on the pre-draft thread, but BP says it will indeed be Beckham to the Rays, b/c of $$$.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 09:54:43 am »
That article say Posey wants 12 million.  After some quick googling, it looks like the biggest contract to date was the $7.28 million that Rick Porcello got from Detroit last year.  I'd say the article is right that Posey and his agent don't want to be picked by Tampa, so they floated an outrageous number.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 09:58:08 am by kevwun »
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 10:04:48 am »
If you want to watch the draft on your windows media player, paste this link in the "Open URL" of the player:

rtsp://a1503.l1086932070.c10869.g.lm.akamaistream.net/D/1503/10869/v0001/reflector:32070 

The show is hosted by Jonathan Mayo and David Rawnsley (former head of Houston Astros scouting).
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 10:13:57 am by Noe in Austin »

Jacksonian

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 10:08:13 am »
If you want to watch the draft on your web media player, click on this link to view it: MLB Channel.  The show is hosted by Jonathan Mayo and David Rawnsley (former head of Houston Astros scouting).

One note.  If you *watch* the draft on mlb.com tv, this afternoon starting at 1pm central, it will be behind.  I'll be sitting at my desk listen on mlb radio which is only a few seconds behind rather than about a minute behind.  At least it was a minute behind last year.
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Jacksonian

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 10:09:49 am »
That article say Posey wants 12 million.  After some quick googling, it looks like the biggest contract to date was the $7.28 million that Rick Porcello got from Detroit last year.  I'd say the article is right that Posey and his agent don't want to be picked by Tampa, so they floated an outrageous number.

Funny, Callis has him going to the Marlins.  Not exactly deep pockets there.
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Jacksonian

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 10:27:55 am »
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MusicMan

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2008, 10:31:45 am »
Very good news.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2008, 10:32:56 am »
One note.  If you *watch* the draft on mlb.com tv, this afternoon starting at 1pm central, it will be behind.  I'll be sitting at my desk listen on mlb radio which is only a few seconds behind rather than about a minute behind.  At least it was a minute behind last year.

And the BaseballChannel.tv is also not used to large hits for streaming, so sometimes it gets quirky.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 10:37:08 am »
Beckham confirmed at #1.
The little blurb at the end of that article shows that even the top pick is very much a crap shot as are all picks in the MLB draft.  (granted not all the TB picks were #1, but most if not all were top 5-7, I think).

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2008, 10:43:49 am »
even the top pick is very much a crap shot as are all picks in the MLB draft. 

Amen.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2008, 11:18:45 am »
The little blurb at the end of that article shows that even the top pick is very much a crap shot as are all picks in the MLB draft.  (granted not all the TB picks were #1, but most if not all were top 5-7, I think).

A pre-draft show is on now on BaseballChannel.tv (MLB.com) and they've got Steve Berhardt of Baseball Factory (the showcase for high school and college kids) saying that this is the deepest draft in a very long time.  He said it compares to the 2005 draft.  They did a segment on the 2005 and reminded everyone of the talent that is already in the majors from that draft.  Man, if this is the true, some very good first rounders are going to come out of this draft.  Berhardt claims that with the high school talent in this draft, this is a deep draft (kids like Hewitt and Collier with all their tools).  He claims that even some second rounders will be great major league prospects.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 11:31:06 am by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2008, 11:20:23 am »
Johnathan Mayo still claims Aaron Crow to Houston at #10.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2008, 11:35:42 am »
Johnathan Mayo still claims Aaron Crow to Houston at #10.

That pre-draft show is old.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2008, 11:37:01 am »
That pre-draft show is old.

Yup, my bad... the pre-draft show for today isn't on yet.  BTW - they really like pointing out today the unpredictability of the slots.  Guys like Hewitt, a high school shortstop, are making scouts wonder just how good or a bust he can be.  "Anywhere from 8 to 88" is what some scouts say.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 11:40:24 am by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2008, 11:45:40 am »
Yup, my bad... the pre-draft show for today isn't on yet.  BTW - they really like pointing out today the unpredictability of the slots.  Guys like Hewitt, a high school shortstop, are making scouts wonder just how good or a bust he can be.  "Anywhere from 8 to 88" is what some scouts say.

The live pre-draft show is at 12:30 following the Negro League draft that starts at noon.

BTW with the 10th pick I expect Houston to not be on the clock until about 1:30 so if you're a few minutes late to the party no worries.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2008, 11:50:51 am »
While we're waiting, given Astros management offered arb to the FA eligible last Dec, I thought I'd have a look at what might be there this Dec.  Here is the list of players who, right now, would stand to be FA after this season: Ausmus, Chacon, Cheito, Erstad, Loretta, and Moehler.  Chacon could sneak into the Type B range.  Moehler would be iffy but would have to stay in the rotation.  I don't think the rest will get enough playing time to make it into compensation territory.  It is the Dec 2009 group, as it stands today, that looks very interesting.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2008, 11:51:30 am »
A pre-draft show is on now on BaseballChannel.tv (MLB.com) and they've got Steve Berhardt of Baseball Factory (the showcase for high school and college kids) saying that this is the deepest draft in a very long time.  He said it compares to the 2005 draft. 

It blows my mind with the variation in opinion on talent from 'the experts'.  I listened to a podcast yesterday with a scout saying this was going to be the weakest draft in quite some time
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Jacksonian

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2008, 11:58:09 am »
It blows my mind with the variation in opinion on talent from 'the experts'.  I listened to a podcast yesterday with a scout saying this was going to be the weakest draft in quite some time

I suppose they have to define weakest or deepest...

It has been put to me like this.  There are few guys you can point to today that you would say that guy is going to be an all-star.  There are a lot of guys you can point to today and say that guy can contribute in the majors either as a starter or reserve.

I have not heard this year's group being as bad as 2001.
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Hornstros

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2008, 12:06:29 pm »
It has been put to me like this.  There are few guys you can point to today that you would say that guy is going to be an all-star.  There are a lot of guys you can point to today and say that guy can contribute in the majors either as a starter or reserve.

Gotcha.  Matter of fact i did not go into much detail.  The guy that claimed this was a weak draft was commenting on the number of all-star caliber players available in the first round.  He specifically mentioned teams in the later part of the first round were disappointed with the talent that was going to be available at that point in time
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2008, 12:15:25 pm »
Enos lookin' sharp.
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Noe

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2008, 12:17:00 pm »
Enos lookin' sharp.

He towers over Mr. "Skinny Legs" Blair.  Gosh, seeing all the snow on top of Cabell's head reminded me just how long I've been watching Astros baseball!

Jacksonian

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2008, 12:17:50 pm »
Gotcha.  Matter of fact i did not go into much detail.  The guy that claimed this was a weak draft was commenting on the number of all-star caliber players available in the first round.  He specifically mentioned teams in the later part of the first round were disappointed with the talent that was going to be available at that point in time

No doubt.  It's not every year you can select the likes of Max Sapp and Brian Bogusevic late in the first round.
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MusicMan

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2008, 12:19:29 pm »
No doubt.  It's not every year you can select the likes of Max Sapp and Brian Bogusevic late in the first round.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2008, 12:24:27 pm »
Gotcha.  Matter of fact i did not go into much detail.  The guy that claimed this was a weak draft was commenting on the number of all-star caliber players available in the first round.  He specifically mentioned teams in the later part of the first round were disappointed with the talent that was going to be available at that point in time

I think scouts are preplexed what to say to their teams about high school prospects available in this year's first round.  Aaron Hicks, for example, will be either taken very high and then the drafting team will hope he's not the next Reggie Abercrombie.  But if he's not, then he's going to be really good.  But the seperation between really good and a bust isn't a wide gap for such a player, so in that sense, many organizations are wishing for more players that are solid picks all around instead of variance of projectability.

So it's either homerun or strikeout with some first rounders but organizations would like to have more doubles and triples (more sure things) sprinkled in there.  Like Jacksonian said, Max Sapp (high schooler) and Bougesevic (Collegian) tell you what happens to organizations when they make that sort of pick.

MusicMan

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2008, 12:25:31 pm »
One note.  If you *watch* the draft on mlb.com tv, this afternoon starting at 1pm central, it will be behind.  I'll be sitting at my desk listen on mlb radio which is only a few seconds behind rather than about a minute behind.  At least it was a minute behind last year.

I'm feeling stupid.  Where is the MLB radio link?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2008, 12:28:04 pm »
Like Jacksonian said, Max Sapp (high schooler) and Bougesevic (Collegian) tell you what happens to organizations when they make that sort of pick.

Right.  Gotta think that the $$$ spent on those two and their performance (or lack there of) thus far made the decision to reassign Paul Ricciardi (sp?) a little easier
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Jacksonian

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2008, 12:36:09 pm »
I'm feeling stupid.  Where is the MLB radio link?

Well, screw me.  It looks like mlb no longer wants anyone to just listen.  I can only get it on mlb tv.  The radio link is closed.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2008, 12:39:33 pm »
Well, screw me.  It looks like mlb no longer wants anyone to just listen.  I can only get it on mlb tv.  The radio link is closed.

Yup and I hate the Silverlight plugin.  So I use the link provided to stream it into my Windows Media Player.  I can have the WMP active on my taskbar and then click on the up arrow on the player to see the small window on my desktop without having to toggle between windows.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2008, 12:44:52 pm »
Yup and I hate the Silverlight plugin.  So I use the link provided to stream it into my Windows Media Player.  I can have the WMP active on my taskbar and then click on the up arrow on the player to see the small window on my desktop without having to toggle between windows.

Where's the WMP link.  I can only get the mlb.tv popup video window.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2008, 12:50:54 pm »
Found this story on Chacon and his family about waiting for 'the call' on draft day.  Not a great read, but interesting enough.  LINK.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2008, 12:52:22 pm »
It blows my mind with the variation in opinion on talent from 'the experts'.  I listened to a podcast yesterday with a scout saying this was going to be the weakest draft in quite some time

I read somewhere yesterday that the 2009 draft is going to be miserable and that b/c of it a large percentage of FAgent players will not be offered arbitration after this season.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2008, 12:55:31 pm »
Where's the WMP link.  I can only get the mlb.tv popup video window.

http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=106047.msg207504#msg207504

In that post, I pasted the WMP link.  Place that link in the File>Open URL dialogue box.  It will place the stream right into your player.  What you could do is also add the link to your playlist once it's streaming.  That way you can just access it when you need it.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2008, 12:59:47 pm »
That was strange... they just posted Jonathan Mayo's projected top ten and the graphic said Aaron Crow and the announcer said Yonder Alonso.  Now even the graphics and voice-overs can't agree!

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2008, 01:01:45 pm »
http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=106047.msg207504#msg207504

In that post, I pasted the WMP link.  Place that link in the File>Open URL dialogue box.  It will place the stream right into your player.  What you could do is also add the link to your playlist once it's streaming.  That way you can just access it when you need it.

Thanks.  Didn't see the edit.
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MusicMan

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2008, 01:03:40 pm »
That was strange... they just posted Jonathan Mayo's projected top ten and the graphic said Aaron Crow and the announcer said Yonder Alonso.  Now even the graphics and voice-overs can't agree!

I noticed that too.  I was trying to figure out if he was reading from an older version.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2008, 01:05:25 pm »
Sweet, BaseballChannel.tv is using the ESPN feed.  Last year, they had their own, using Rawnsley, Mayo and others to break it down.  I guess the ESPN/MLB marriage is getting stronger.

MusicMan

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2008, 01:06:42 pm »
Sweet, BaseballChannel.tv is using the ESPN feed.  Last year, they had their own, using Rawnsley, Mayo and others to break it down.  I guess the ESPN/MLB marriage is getting stronger.

ESPN, devouring all in its path.  Eventually, they will reconcile with NHL and put it on ESPN4.  ESPN3 will be dedicated to EPL and beach volleyball.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2008, 01:07:10 pm »
Phillips exudes ego.  Very glad he never led the Astros.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2008, 01:08:00 pm »
Any idea how far behind the tv broadcast the mlb simulcast is?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2008, 01:09:12 pm »
http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=106047.msg207504#msg207504

In that post, I pasted the WMP link.  Place that link in the File>Open URL dialogue box.  It will place the stream right into your player.  What you could do is also add the link to your playlist once it's streaming.  That way you can just access it when you need it.

I wish I understood what that means. I copied and pasted the link into my url address and got nothing. Am I misreading?
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MusicMan

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2008, 01:09:44 pm »
I wish I understood what that means. I copied and pasted the link into my url address and got nothing. Am I misreading?

Not IE.  Start-> File -> Open
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2008, 01:11:06 pm »
How in the blue hell did the former METS' GM say that character/makeup was one of the most important things to gauge in a player??
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2008, 01:13:02 pm »
How in the blue hell did the former METS' GM say that character/makeup was one of the most important things to gauge in a player??
he's an "ex" GM for a reason.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2008, 01:13:09 pm »
Not IE.  Start-> File -> Open

Is "File" the same as "Run"?
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Jacksonian

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2008, 01:14:56 pm »
Is "File" the same as "Run"?

Open Windows Media player.  Then go to open a url.  Paste the link and enter.  Should do it.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2008, 01:17:09 pm »
i have the draft tracker and no picks yet.  is it mlb.com that's waaaay behind or what?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2008, 01:17:38 pm »
Beckham about to be announced at #1.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2008, 01:18:51 pm »
Open Windows Media player.  Then go to open a url.  Paste the link and enter.  Should do it.

What he said.  Open Windows Media Player, click on "File" and the second selection should be "Open URL"... paste the url I provided into that.  It should start streaming directly into your player.  You can then right mouse click your windows task bar below.  In the top selection called "Toolbars", click on "Windows Media Player".  That way you can minimize the player directly into your taskbar.  Then click on the player's up arrow on your task bar player to show a mini window on your desktop.

Clear as mud, eh?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2008, 01:19:54 pm »
Tim Beckham, numero uno (not a surprise).  Bat speed the great asset.  Pittsburgh's on the clock.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2008, 01:23:33 pm »
#2: PIT - Pedro Alvarez, 3b
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2008, 01:23:44 pm »
This is on ESPNs page with Keith Law commenting on the draft picks

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/draft2008/news/story?id=3427340


Quote
More pre-draft buzz (1:57 p.m.): Law is hearing that catcher Kyle Skipworth from Riverside, Calif., will indeed go to Florida at No. 6.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2008, 01:26:34 pm »
What he said.  Open Windows Media Player, click on "File" and the second selection should be "Open URL"... paste the url I provided into that.  It should start streaming directly into your player.  You can then right mouse click your windows task bar below.  In the top selection called "Toolbars", click on "Windows Media Player".  That way you can minimize the player directly into your taskbar.  Then click on the player's up arrow on your task bar player to show a mini window on your desktop.

Clear as mud, eh?

That all makes sense, except for the fact that I can't find "File" on my Windows Media Player. It just says "Now Playing" "Library" "Rip" "Burn" "Sync" and "Guide."

Feel free to give up on me at any time. I am an embarrasment to my generation. A 30 year old who can't work a simple computer.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2008, 01:28:24 pm »
Hosmer to the Royals.

So is Crow gonna fall to ten?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2008, 01:28:50 pm »
That all makes sense, except for the fact that I can't find "File" on my Windows Media Player. It just says "Now Playing" "Library" "Rip" "Burn" "Sync" and "Guide."

Place your cursor right above the player you are seeing on the screen and more options should appear on top of the player....one of which is 'File'
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2008, 01:29:44 pm »
Feel free to give up on me at any time. I am an embarrasment to my generation. A 30 year old who can't work a simple computer.

Bring back DOS!
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2008, 01:30:44 pm »
Place your cursor right above the player you are seeing on the screen and more options should appear on top of the player....one of which is 'File'

Eureka! Thanks a lot to all.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2008, 01:30:51 pm »
  Did Jim Callis just say the Pirates new front office includes an ex MLB guy who used to push other teams to not overpay for their slot?   Funny.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2008, 01:33:31 pm »
There goes Matusz.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2008, 01:34:47 pm »
All right, here we go.  If the Giants take G Beckham, then Skipworth could start sliding.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2008, 01:34:59 pm »
Brian Matzus is off the board, Orioles just took him.  That is one of the three that Callis said "may" fall down to them.  *sigh*, was a huge reach to fall to #10, but I was hoping that it might happen.  He reminds me of the very good and not injured Mark Mulder of the A's.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 01:37:01 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2008, 01:36:04 pm »
Hosmer to the Royals.

So is Crow gonna fall to ten?


What the Reds do will tell you.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2008, 01:36:29 pm »
Brian Matzus is off the board, Orioles just took him.  That is one of the three that Callis said "may" fall down to them.  *sigh*, was a huge reach.

I really didn't believe he'd fall.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2008, 01:38:04 pm »
All right, here we go.  If the Giants take G Beckham, then Skipworth could start sliding.

Everything I've heard is this is where Justin Smoak will slot.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2008, 01:38:43 pm »
That was Callis' call.  Essentially, hope for anyone but Posey.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2008, 01:39:40 pm »
Giants took Posey.
Crazy Joe McCluskey was fucking nuts.  It's why they called him Crazy Joe.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2008, 01:39:56 pm »
It was Posey!  Jints nab him.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2008, 01:40:06 pm »
And Posey it is.  Damn.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2008, 01:40:26 pm »
Goin' for a bus ride.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2008, 01:40:49 pm »
FWIW, Mayo is 5 for 5 in his final projection so far.  If that holds, he has the Astros reaching for Lawrie.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2008, 01:41:33 pm »
Fla has got to go with either Smoak or Alonso.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2008, 01:45:16 pm »
Florida takes Skipworth.
Crazy Joe McCluskey was fucking nuts.  It's why they called him Crazy Joe.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2008, 01:45:30 pm »
And there goes Skipworth.  Mayo still perfect.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2008, 01:45:50 pm »
Fla has got to go with either Smoak or Alonso.

It's Skipworth, who they've been tied to from early on with Callis.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #75 on: June 05, 2008, 01:46:11 pm »
Florida takes Skipworth.

Worst case for Houston so far.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #76 on: June 05, 2008, 01:47:55 pm »
  So what is the long term outlook on Towles?   Most people thought he was the top prospect in the Astros (admittedly bad) system heading into this year, but now Skipworth seemed to have been the favorite at 10 if he would have fallen.   If Towles was hitting .270 right now would Skipworth still have been the hope at 10?  Was he just that much of a value?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #77 on: June 05, 2008, 01:48:29 pm »
Florida takes Skipworth.

So does Mayo still think it's Crow to Houston or Alonso?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #78 on: June 05, 2008, 01:48:51 pm »
 So what is the long term outlook on Towles?   Most people thought he was the top prospect in the Astros (admittedly bad) system heading into this year, but now Skipworth seemed to have been the favorite at 10 if he would have fallen.   If Towles was hitting .270 right now would Skipworth still have been the hope at 10?  Was he just that much of a value?

Yes.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #79 on: June 05, 2008, 01:49:05 pm »
Dear ESPN:

Please keep Keith Law off my screen.  My employer will not understand if I punch a hole in my laptop.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #80 on: June 05, 2008, 01:49:15 pm »
I've already admitted to being a Gamecock fan, I hope that Smoak somehow falls to the Astros.  The kid is solid.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #81 on: June 05, 2008, 01:49:29 pm »
So does Mayo still think it's Crow to Houston or Alonso?

Mayo has Crow at 11 and the Astros taking Lawrie, hotshot Canadian prepster.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #82 on: June 05, 2008, 01:49:40 pm »
So does Mayo still think it's Crow to Houston or Alonso?

He has Lawrie to HOU (with Crow still on the board).  He has Alonso to CWS at 8.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #83 on: June 05, 2008, 01:50:13 pm »
  So what is the long term outlook on Towles?   Most people thought he was the top prospect in the Astros (admittedly bad) system heading into this year, but now Skipworth seemed to have been the favorite at 10 if he would have fallen.   If Towles was hitting .270 right now would Skipworth still have been the hope at 10?  Was he just that much of a value?

I don't think people had that sort of projection and expectation for Towles.  You bought the PR departments Kool-aid and drank it in one full gulp if you believe that.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #84 on: June 05, 2008, 01:50:57 pm »
Mayo's run is broken - Reds take Alonso.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #85 on: June 05, 2008, 01:51:05 pm »
He has Lawrie to HOU (with Crow still on the board).  He has Alonso to CWS at 8.

Alonso to the Reds at 7.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #86 on: June 05, 2008, 01:51:10 pm »
Mayo has Crow at 11 and the Astros taking Lawrie, hotshot Canadian prepster.

From Law this morning on Lawrie:

"Lawrie's also now in the mix for Houston with the 10th pick if Skipworth doesn't reach them. Houston is one team that believes Lawrie can stay behind the plate given further instruction, which would make Lawrie a bona fide mid-first-round pick."
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #87 on: June 05, 2008, 01:51:21 pm »
Mayo's run is broken - Reds take Alonso.

Great news.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #88 on: June 05, 2008, 01:51:26 pm »
Alright!!! Reds took Alonso, so Crow is definitely in play now for Houston.  Please don't screw this up!  This pick by the Reds was unexpected.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #89 on: June 05, 2008, 01:51:46 pm »
Great news.

Unless it tempts them to take Beckham.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #90 on: June 05, 2008, 01:53:32 pm »
Unless it tempts them to take Beckham.

Die.

I'm thinking the White Sox will tab him.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #91 on: June 05, 2008, 01:54:25 pm »
Unless it tempts them to take Beckham.

So long as they are honest with the fans and don't sell them that he's a shortstop.  He's at best a second baseman in the Jeff Kent variety or a third baseman that may hit well if he develops as he project.  I'd still rather see them take Crow, but they know far better than me.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #92 on: June 05, 2008, 01:55:27 pm »
Sorry, but I just see Chris Burke all over again.  It's far and away my worst-case scenario in the first round.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #93 on: June 05, 2008, 01:55:35 pm »
ChiSox take Beckham.
Crazy Joe McCluskey was fucking nuts.  It's why they called him Crazy Joe.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #94 on: June 05, 2008, 01:56:27 pm »
CWS: G Beckham.

Hallelujah, holy shit.  Where's the Tylenol?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #95 on: June 05, 2008, 01:56:34 pm »
Sox take Beckham.

Woohoo.  I'm a prognosticator.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #96 on: June 05, 2008, 01:57:09 pm »
Someone should teach Beckham how to run to 2b.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #97 on: June 05, 2008, 01:57:13 pm »
That was a good call. For two in a row, who will Washington take?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #98 on: June 05, 2008, 01:57:29 pm »
C'mon Nats.  Go with Smoak.  Do they have a 1b?  If not Smoak could start for them next year.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #99 on: June 05, 2008, 01:59:06 pm »
Still pulling for Smoak. 

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2008, 01:59:24 pm »
C'mon Nats.  Go with Smoak.  Do they have a 1b?  If not Smoak could start for them next year.

Depends on whether or not Johnson can play more than 50 games in a year.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2008, 02:00:01 pm »
Do they have a 1b?  

They have that platoon of Nick Johson/Dmitri Young....think Young is injured right now
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #102 on: June 05, 2008, 02:00:43 pm »
FUCK

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #103 on: June 05, 2008, 02:01:39 pm »
Awwwww shit.  Crow to the Nats.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #104 on: June 05, 2008, 02:02:29 pm »
What now?  Lawrie?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #105 on: June 05, 2008, 02:02:38 pm »
Son of a Bitch!

Smoak would have no place to play and is very near major league ready.

Look for Lawrie here.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #106 on: June 05, 2008, 02:02:52 pm »
  Fuck it.  Just take Smoak.   Maybe trade him at the deadline in a year.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #107 on: June 05, 2008, 02:03:23 pm »
*sigh*, so close.  Screw you Nationals!

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #108 on: June 05, 2008, 02:04:02 pm »
I take it Crow is a stud?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #109 on: June 05, 2008, 02:04:41 pm »
  Fuck it.  Just take Smoak.

Houston won't take Smoak.  Lawrie?  Maybe.  Now it's anyone's guess what they'll do.  I'll be shocked if they take Smoak.  Friedrich is still in play.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #110 on: June 05, 2008, 02:05:36 pm »
I take it Crow is a stud?

Possible #1 starter, is already poised and probably makes it to the big leagues in two years or less.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #111 on: June 05, 2008, 02:05:58 pm »
Houston won't take Smoak.  Lawrie?  Maybe.  Now it's anyone's guess what they'll do.  I'll be shocked if they take Smoak.  Friedrich is still in play.

And Friedrich doesn't project nearly as high as Crow, correct?

The pick is Castro.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #112 on: June 05, 2008, 02:06:05 pm »
Possible #1 starter, is already poised and probably makes it to the big leagues in two years or less.
Ah damn that does suck then.  That's exactly what the Astros need.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #113 on: June 05, 2008, 02:07:26 pm »
Wasn't he the dreadlock dude on American Idol?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #114 on: June 05, 2008, 02:07:41 pm »
Holy Fuck.  The Astros are VERY down on Towles.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #115 on: June 05, 2008, 02:07:47 pm »
Really seems like a reach to me.  He wasnt even mentioned at this point.  What happened to best player available?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #116 on: June 05, 2008, 02:08:08 pm »
*sigh*  Castro is an average looking catcher.  Hitter, okay, but catcher?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #117 on: June 05, 2008, 02:08:45 pm »
Wasn't he the dreadlock dude on American Idol?


First thing I thought.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #118 on: June 05, 2008, 02:08:52 pm »
Quote
Holy Fuck.  The Astros are VERY down on Towles.

Yeah.  So much for infusing the best talent into the minor league system.   The BP guys hate this pick FWIW.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 02:11:33 pm by Twoniner »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #119 on: June 05, 2008, 02:08:57 pm »
I think we all know how the Astros drafting a catcher turns out. ugh

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #120 on: June 05, 2008, 02:09:17 pm »
So when is the next pick?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #121 on: June 05, 2008, 02:09:24 pm »
so much for best available.   Tough to judge too harshly right now....but i'm not a big fan of that pick
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #122 on: June 05, 2008, 02:09:37 pm »
And Friedrich doesn't project nearly as high as Crow, correct?

The pick is Castro.

Friedrich is a middle of the rotation type of starter, will need refinement.  Houston selection of Castro is justifiable, but really a reach at #10.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #123 on: June 05, 2008, 02:09:44 pm »
Reading Richard Justice and respect level for Richard Justice are inversely related

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #124 on: June 05, 2008, 02:09:51 pm »
Holy Fuck.  The Astros are VERY down on Towles.

Are you surprised that the Astros are down on Towles?
Boom!

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #125 on: June 05, 2008, 02:09:54 pm »
Not a good start to draft day. I am really disappointed.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #126 on: June 05, 2008, 02:10:00 pm »
Guess "best available" wasn't in the plans...

Scouting report from ESPN on Castro:

Quote
Summary: Castro finished second in the Cape Cod League in batting average to Conor Gillaspie, but didn't get to catch that often because he was behind Buster Posey. This spring, he's established his catching bona fides and is lined up to be the second college backstop taken, probably in the back of the first round but perhaps in the top 20 picks. Castro has a simple, contact-oriented swing, with a very slight bat wrap but good overall bat speed and plate coverage. His swing plane is pretty flat, and he shifts his weight forward before contact, resulting in below-average power. Behind the plate, he's solid-average in all respects: hands, arm, plate-blocking. His upside is as an average regular catcher in the big leagues, unless he develops more power. He has a very high probability of making it as a backup.

Player Grades
                        PRESENT FUTURE
Hitting         45    55
Power                 40    45
Plate Discipline     40    40
Running Speed      35       35
Fielding Range    50    50
Arm Strength    50    50
Feel for Game    45    50
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

Emo Oranges

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #127 on: June 05, 2008, 02:11:43 pm »
"He has a very high probability of making it as a backup."

That's never what you want to hear.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #128 on: June 05, 2008, 02:12:49 pm »
He has a very high probability of making it as a backup.

Damning with faint praise.  Right. There.

Noe

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #129 on: June 05, 2008, 02:13:39 pm »
"He has a very high probability of making it as a backup."

That's never what you want to hear.

Not with a #10 pick in the first round.  You drafted a backup catcher.  Ugh!

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #130 on: June 05, 2008, 02:13:53 pm »
Fwiw, Callis approved of the pick.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #131 on: June 05, 2008, 02:14:59 pm »
Noe-

Help me out a little in regards to the pitching class.  I know Crow was considered the top pitcher, but what kind of drop off is there?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #132 on: June 05, 2008, 02:15:30 pm »
Castro isn't one anyone was talking about at 10.  This is one the pudnits will say is a reach and a signability pick.  Time will tell.  Castro could be major league ready in 3 years.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #133 on: June 05, 2008, 02:16:02 pm »
Noe-

Help me out a little in regards to the pitching class.  I know Crow was considered the top pitcher, but what kind of drop off is there?
callis said the dropoff at catcher (after skipworth, posey and castro) lasted into the second round if that helps.  maybe that went into their thinking.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #134 on: June 05, 2008, 02:17:18 pm »
Fwiw, Callis approved of the pick.

Because catcher and hitter in the same guy is a rare commodity and people seem to believe in that.  Houston seems to be on a jag to have a hitting catcher on this team some day and this may do it.  But he's nothing to write home about in terms of catcher.  He's average.  He's basically JR Towles right now and of course that means a JR Towles who can hit.  His defense isn't anything to write home about.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #135 on: June 05, 2008, 02:17:35 pm »
Quote
Fwiw, Callis approved of the pick.

Callis explained the thinking in the pick in that there was a dropoff to the next catcher and that many teams wanted Castro at the end of the first round, but they didn't expect him to go this early.   It wasn't really an approval imo.    The plus side seems to be that his defense looks alright, and he's probably a smart guy coming from Stanford.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 02:19:15 pm by Twoniner »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #136 on: June 05, 2008, 02:18:44 pm »
He must be a smart catcher to attend Stanford.  Astros have a good history with smart catchers.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #137 on: June 05, 2008, 02:19:05 pm »
Because catcher and hitter in the same guy is a rare commodity and people seem to believe in that.  Houston seems to be on a jag to have a hitting catcher on this team some day and this may do it.  But he's nothing to write home about in terms of catcher.  He's average.  He's basically JR Towles right now and of course that means a JR Towles who can hit.  His defense isn't anything to write home about.

It does smack of desperation.

Boy, the radio nitwits will be out in full force.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #138 on: June 05, 2008, 02:19:43 pm »
Noe-

Help me out a little in regards to the pitching class.  I know Crow was considered the top pitcher, but what kind of drop off is there?

The dropoff in terms of talent is that relievers are more higher drafting picks than starters.  That means most of what you can see in terms of refined, almost ready for the major leagues in terms of pitching is reliever types.  Starters aren't as close, but they could develop to be really fine starters one day.  But they will need development.  The reason I liked Crow was he was closer to being major league ready and a starter all rolled into one.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #139 on: June 05, 2008, 02:19:57 pm »
im more so excited about our other picks...normally i am, our 1st picks recently dont pan out so well.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #140 on: June 05, 2008, 02:20:51 pm »
If nothing else, maybe this will light a fire under Towles ass
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #141 on: June 05, 2008, 02:21:26 pm »
Because catcher and hitter in the same guy is a rare commodity and people seem to believe in that.  Houston seems to be on a jag to have a hitting catcher on this team some day and this may do it.  But he's nothing to write home about in terms of catcher.  He's average.  He's basically JR Towles right now and of course that means a JR Towles who can hit.  His defense isn't anything to write home about.

Neither is JR Towles'. 

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #142 on: June 05, 2008, 02:21:49 pm »
From MLB.com on Castro: LINK

Hitting Ability:  A little heavy on his front side, he can be vulnerable to the changeup; sometimes Castro tries too hard to be the guy in the lineup. He does have the ability to drive the ball from the left side of the plate.

Power:  He's got average power now with the chance to be plus down the road. He's got opposite-field power with good loft and backspin.

Running Speed:  He's got more speed than most catchers.

Base running:  He does have the ability to take the extra base or even steal a bag or two.

Arm Strength:  He's an got average arm, but keeps improving his pop times to second base.

Fielding:  He's worked hard on his craft and does a terrific job framing the ball.

Range:   He's good at blocking pitches in the dirt.

Physical Description:  Castro is a tall, well-proportioned backstop with a long body.

Medical Update:  Healthy now, but an arm issue over the summer kept him from catching regularly.

Strengths:  With legitimate power, some hittability and an improving set of defensive skills, he's got the chance to be a good all-around catcher.

Weaknesses:  He has trouble with offspeed stuff.

Summary:  College catchers, especially those who hit left-handed, are always in demand, and Castro has used a strong Cape League season to put himself in position to be one of the first backstops taken. He's got legit power and a good set of defensive skills. He might not be the first college catcher to go off the board, but he likely won't have to wait long.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #143 on: June 05, 2008, 02:22:28 pm »
It does smack of desperation.

Boy, the radio nitwits will be out in full force.

They're not wrong in this case.

I only THOUGHT that Beckham was a worst-case scenario.  Holy fuck.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #144 on: June 05, 2008, 02:22:50 pm »
His defense isn't anything to write home about.

That's really the only reason I'm pissed off about this pick.  If he had above average tools accross the board defensively...and then the projectable bat, I'd of been easier to accept.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #145 on: June 05, 2008, 02:23:08 pm »
It does smack of desperation.

Boy, the radio nitwits will be out in full force.

I expect the opposite.  Radio pundits think "catcher" and ask "what does he hit?".  They're going to like the Castro pick in that regard, although he's a gap to gap hitter, more of a LoDuca type of hitter... high batting average potential, singles/doubles hitter... left handed, very level swing.  Power may develop.

But the reason scouts say a decent "backup" catcher is because of "catching" or defense.  He's average.  Ahum... yeah, just like LoDuca.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 02:25:59 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #146 on: June 05, 2008, 02:25:43 pm »
I expect the opposite.  Radio pundits think "catcher" and ask "what does he hit?".  They're going to like the Castro pick in that regard, although he's not a gap to gap hitter, more of a LoDuca type of hitter... high batting average potential, singles/doubles hitter... left handed, very level swing.

But the reason scouts say a decent "backup" catcher is because of "catching" or defense.  He's average.  Ahum... yeah, just like LoDuca.
could he possibly project to another position, like 3rd base?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #147 on: June 05, 2008, 02:26:15 pm »
They're not wrong in this case.

I only THOUGHT that Beckham was a worst-case scenario.  Holy fuck.

I dunno.  I wouldn't be surprised if Castro has a better career than Beckham.

And, now I've cursed Castro and Beckham will be an all-star.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #148 on: June 05, 2008, 02:26:27 pm »
I think Noe is right.  That .372 batting average will go a long way with the unwashed masses.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #149 on: June 05, 2008, 02:26:27 pm »
They're not wrong in this case.

I only THOUGHT that Beckham was a worst-case scenario.  Holy fuck.

ok, i realize i know nothing, but why are you pissed? the reports sound pretty good.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #150 on: June 05, 2008, 02:27:20 pm »
could he possibly project to another position, like 3rd base?

Juneberno.  I doubt they wasted a #10 on a guy who projects to be something different than what they are now.  I think he's a catcher and will stay at catcher and they hope his smarts will allow him to do well in that regard (defense).

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #151 on: June 05, 2008, 02:27:30 pm »
could he possibly project to another position, like 3rd base?

You don't draft him at 10 to put him at 3b.  He's a catcher.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #152 on: June 05, 2008, 02:27:54 pm »
ok, i realize i know nothing, but why are you pissed? the reports sound pretty good.

This is reaching for need.  Pick the best player availabile.

Reaching for need brought us picks like Sapp and Bogusevic.  And Burke.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #153 on: June 05, 2008, 02:28:23 pm »
the reports sound pretty good.
he sounds decent to me, but i dont know much about the talent level in the draft.  where do you think the team projects at #38?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #154 on: June 05, 2008, 02:29:28 pm »
Juneberno.  I doubt they wasted a #10 on a guy who projects to be something different than what they are now.  I think he's a catcher and will stay at catcher and they hope his smarts will allow him to do well in that regard (defense).
just wondering.  it sounded like his defensive prowess was getting attacked.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #155 on: June 05, 2008, 02:29:45 pm »
This is reaching for need.  Pick the best player availabile.

Reaching for need brought us picks like Sapp and Bogusevic.  And Burke.
do you know they did not think he was the best one on THEIR board? i find it hard to second guess a club's decisions on draft choices unless i can overhear the conversation.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #156 on: June 05, 2008, 02:32:37 pm »
From BP:

Quote
Joe Sheehan (12:03:31 PM PT): Nats take Crow at 109...Astros have to take Smoak and run, right? This is a gift?

Kevin Goldstein (12:10:37 PM PT): 10. Astros -- Jason Castro, C, Stanford.

Are you f-ing kidding me? Words can not describe how dumb this is. They just can't. I'm utterly speechless. At least I get to rip Houston's drafts once again. I'm rambling to myslef here it total disbelief.

Kevin Goldstein (12:11:48 PM PT): Ok. Here's the thing. Castro is a really nice catcher, don't get me wrong. But that's a late first round talent and JUSTIN SMOAK IS STILL ON THE BOARD. Maybe the Astros just didn't notice this.

Kevin Goldstein (12:13:51 PM PT): Andy (TX): OH my GOD!! Castro??? What the is Wade thinking?

I'll let Andy speak for legions of Astros fans.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #157 on: June 05, 2008, 02:32:56 pm »
ok, i realize i know nothing, but why are you pissed? the reports sound pretty good.

I think we were on a Crow hangover when they announced the pick.  Hopefully the kid develops the catching skills to make this a feel good pick.  Last #10 pick was Chris Burke and that didn't fair too well.  Many called it a reach pick too, so I think many of us would just as soon have them avoid those types again (at such a high pick).

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #158 on: June 05, 2008, 02:33:34 pm »
Quote
This is reaching for need.  Pick the best player availabile.

Reaching for need brought us picks like Sapp and Bogusevic.  And Burke.

do you know they did not think he was the best one on THEIR board? i find it hard to second guess a club's decisions on draft choices unless i can overhear the conversation.

It was widely known they liked (along with everyone else) the Skipworth high school catcher better, and were hoping he would slip.    He didn't slip, and they chose another catcher most had going late in the first round.   It sounds like most people recognize that there is a dropoff to the next best catcher after Castro.  Everything points to it being a very need based selection.  Need picks aren't damned to fail, but it sounds like it would be even worse if the Astros scouting department had him as the best player on the board.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 02:35:57 pm by Twoniner »

MusicMan

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #159 on: June 05, 2008, 02:33:58 pm »
do you know they did not think he was the best one on THEIR board? i find it hard to second guess a club's decisions on draft choices unless i can overhear the conversation.

That's fair.  But "projects as, at best, an average starting catcher" is not something that you like to see at 10.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #160 on: June 05, 2008, 02:34:55 pm »
do you know they did not think he was the best one on THEIR board? i find it hard to second guess a club's decisions on draft choices unless i can overhear the conversation.

Putting together everthing I've heard is that he was the best available on their board at either pitcher or up the middle defender.  And, high schooler was pretty much out of the question at that money since Skipworth got picked.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #161 on: June 05, 2008, 02:35:10 pm »
From BP:



BP is who you're quoting?

i'm in over my head obviously. i'll shut the fuck up and watch.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #162 on: June 05, 2008, 02:35:43 pm »
do you know they did not think he was the best one on THEIR board? i find it hard to second guess a club's decisions on draft choices unless i can overhear the conversation.

They have their reasons.  We can't let past decisions color this years draft.  Yes the purse string holder is the same but the people making the calls are very different.  Ed Wade & Andy Heck both have good track records of knowing what they are doing.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #163 on: June 05, 2008, 02:36:38 pm »
I also don't know if this says so much about Towles as it what is says about Sapp, Santangelo and Clemens.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #164 on: June 05, 2008, 02:37:11 pm »
I also don't know if this says so much about Towles as it what is says about Sapp, Santangelo and Clemens.

I agree with that.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #165 on: June 05, 2008, 02:37:36 pm »
They have their reasons.  We can't let past decisions color this years draft.  Yes the purse string holder is the same but the people making the calls are very different.  Ed Wade & Andy Heck both have good track records of knowing what they are doing.

I think this is also a reflection of the lack of can't miss players.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #166 on: June 05, 2008, 02:37:53 pm »
BP is who you're quoting?

i'm in over my head obviously. i'll shut the fuck up and watch.

I was going to add that perhaps this tells me I should shut the fuck up.   If I'm as hysterical as those guys, I'm on the wrong track.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #167 on: June 05, 2008, 02:38:33 pm »
castro's scouting video linked to his scouting report had him taking throws at 1B exclusively, FWIW.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #168 on: June 05, 2008, 02:39:02 pm »
They have their reasons.  We can't let past decisions color this years draft.  Yes the purse string holder is the same but the people making the calls are very different.  Ed Wade & Andy Heck both have good track records of knowing what they are doing.

Thanks for leveling me back out.  

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #169 on: June 05, 2008, 02:39:22 pm »
I think this is also a reflection of the lack of can't miss players.

Thought people were hyping Smoak as one of those type players.
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #170 on: June 05, 2008, 02:39:27 pm »
just wondering.  it sounded like his defensive prowess was getting attacked.

There seems to be a shift in organizational thinking around the majors that if you find a receiver that can hit, take him.  That is a Godsend.  If he's average at catching, you think maybe you can help him develop to be better or overlook his deficiencies (see: LoDuca, Paul).  This isn't a bad idea if he can hit and the reports look really good on that end.  Excellent actually.  So this is Houston taking a flyer on the defense thinking they can help him develop... and he is smart, so that helps.  But this is a good hitter who could develop some power and that is exciting.

What you'd expect from #10 though is a little more refined game *overall*, but if not, then go for what you think you need and a hitting catcher seems to be the desire.  It goes with what Heck said too... up the middle talent.  They did it, so expect more in that regard (ss, cf, 2nd, p)

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #171 on: June 05, 2008, 02:40:01 pm »
I also don't know if this says so much about Towles as it what is says about Sapp, Santangelo and Clemens.

I agree.  The system is pretty devoid of catching talent.  But Castro could be major league ready long before the Astros lose control of Towles.  I think it's a reflection of the lack of faith in the catchers from Towles on down.  That AND that if Towles goes down to injury there's no one to pick up the slack.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #172 on: June 05, 2008, 02:42:09 pm »
Thought people were hyping Smoak as one of those type players.

Heck said they were looking at pitching and up the middle.  Less importantly, Smoak is so close to major league ready there'd be no place for him in Houston unless Berkman or Lee went down.  He spend a lot of time in Round Rock.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #173 on: June 05, 2008, 02:43:53 pm »
This is reaching for need.  Pick the best player availabile.

Reaching for need brought us picks like Sapp and Bogusevic.  And Burke.

Not that I am an expert by any means.  But, the more I see about the different players left.  It seems like after the group that went a 1-9, the rest of the guys all could kind of be grouped together and it is 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.

Do you want a 1B, that can hit, but has questionable fielding.  Do you want a catcher who is solid in everything, but special in nothing.  Do you want a pitcher who projects at high end to be a #3 pitcher?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #174 on: June 05, 2008, 02:44:17 pm »
Discussing this on the radio in the next couple of weeks ought to be fun.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #175 on: June 05, 2008, 02:45:09 pm »
Heck said they were looking at pitching and up the middle.  Less importantly, Smoak is so close to major league ready there'd be no place for him in Houston unless Berkman or Lee went down.  He spend a lot of time in Round Rock.

And Smoak is a first baseman in name only.  He's slighty below average as a defender and he runs really slow.  He's a masher, but that speaks DH to me more than anything else.  Houston does not employ DH's in their league.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #176 on: June 05, 2008, 02:45:14 pm »
Do you want a 1B, that can hit, but has questionable fielding.  Do you want a catcher who is solid in everything, but special in nothing.  Do you want a pitcher who projects at high end to be a #3 pitcher?

Given these options, with no names attached, give me the pitcher.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #177 on: June 05, 2008, 02:47:03 pm »
Not that I am an expert by any means.  But, the more I see about the different players left.  It seems like after the group that went a 1-9, the rest of the guys all could kind of be grouped together and it is 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.

Do you want a 1B, that can hit, but has questionable fielding.  Do you want a catcher who is solid in everything, but special in nothing.  Do you want a pitcher who projects at high end to be a #3 pitcher?

I think that's a big part of it.  Add to that a high schooler at that money when high schoolers washout at a much higher rate than collegians.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #178 on: June 05, 2008, 02:47:53 pm »
So someone please explain to me why MLB disallows the trading of draft picks.  We were in the perfect "trade up spot" there for a while.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #179 on: June 05, 2008, 02:49:40 pm »
Given these options, with no names attached, give me the pitcher.

Friedrich or Castro.

There's more pitching talent in the system than catching.  I'm not sure Friedrich would project any higher than Polin Trinidad.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #180 on: June 05, 2008, 02:50:06 pm »
So someone please explain to me why MLB disallows the trading of draft picks.  We were in the perfect "trade up spot" there for a while.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #181 on: June 05, 2008, 02:50:23 pm »
Not that I am an expert by any means.  But, the more I see about the different players left.  It seems like after the group that went a 1-9, the rest of the guys all could kind of be grouped together and it is 6 of 1, half dozen of the other.

Do you want a 1B, that can hit, but has questionable fielding.  Do you want a catcher who is solid in everything, but special in nothing.  Do you want a pitcher who projects at high end to be a #3 pitcher?

Excellent points.  That is why the Crow hangover was a lot of what the reaction was about around here.  I think Houston's pick is justifiable in that regard, but when you think to yourself in terms of #10 pick overall, you'd hope they were going to go with a good overall game type of player.  Good hard work for Castro will help.

When Chris Burke was picked #10, he was sold to fans as a shortstop with really close to major league skills.  Some pundits felt Houston was reaching saying that and this all turned out to be true.  When I saw Burke play in Round Rock (AA) for the first time, I was shocked at how bad he was at everything.  Hitting, fielding, running.  He actually needed to go back to instructional league to relearn how to hit a baseball with a wood bat.

This may not be the same thing for Castro, we won't know today or even a year from now, but I think we'll have a better idea.  So the fact it's a #10 pick is making this more about wanting a bit more.  Also that Crow didn't fall didn't help.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #182 on: June 05, 2008, 02:51:40 pm »
Given these options, with no names attached, give me the pitcher.

You can certainly make that argument.  I am just saying from what I have heard people say about the guys that were on the board at #10.  None would really be what you really want from the #10 pick in the draft.

If we end up with a Paul LoDuca type of hitter in Castro, I would be very happy with that.  I would rather gamble on a handful of higher end pitchers in the next few rounds, that are not near as refined, than to take a #3 pitcher at #10....

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #183 on: June 05, 2008, 02:53:12 pm »
Catro apparently has most of his power going to opposite field...that makes me happy.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #184 on: June 05, 2008, 02:53:50 pm »
Is Smoak a below average fielder?  I thought I read his hands were pretty good, and SC fans always spoke highly of his defense.

If he's blocked in Houston, you would think it would be pretty easy to find someone out there willing to trade for a switch hitter projected to put up big power numbers.


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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #185 on: June 05, 2008, 02:55:18 pm »
Excellent points.  That is why the Crow hangover was a lot of what the reaction was about around here.  I think Houston's pick is justifiable in that regard, but when you think to yourself in terms of #10 pick overall, you'd hope they were going to go with a good overall game type of player.  Good hard work for Castro will help.

When Chris Burke was picked #10, he was sold to fans as a shortstop with really close to major league skills.  Some pundits felt Houston was reaching saying that and this all turned out to be true.  When I saw Burke play in Round Rock (AA) for the first time, I was shocked at how bad he was at everything.  Hitting, fielding, running.  He actually needed to go back to instructional league to relearn how to hit a baseball with a wood bat.

This may not be the same thing for Castro, we won't know today or even a year from now, but I think we'll have a better idea.  So the fact it's a #10 pick is making this more about wanting a bit more.  Also that Crow didn't fall didn't help.

I agree completely.  You certainly WANT more from the #10 pick than a catcher who is solid at everything but great at nothing.  But, unfortionately when Crow went at #9, a type of guy who is worthy of the #10 pick in the draft did not exist.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #186 on: June 05, 2008, 02:55:48 pm »
You can certainly make that argument.  I am just saying from what I have heard people say about the guys that were on the board at #10.  None would really be what you really want from the #10 pick in the draft.

If we end up with a Paul LoDuca type of hitter in Castro, I would be very happy with that.  I would rather gamble on a handful of higher end pitchers in the next few rounds, that are not near as refined, than to take a #3 pitcher at #10....

And Castros is much bigger in body size than LoDuca, but I used him as a frame of reference as the type of catcher he may be when all is said and done in the majors.  Some call LoDuca a misplaced backup catcher, but his hitting has kept him in the starting lineup his whole career.

Castro is not such a bad pick unless one can make an argument for Smoak being such a no-brainer of a pick that Houston screwed the pooch on that one.  I don't agree with the Smoak pick at #10 for Houston simply because of the limitations being higher for Smoak than Castro.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #187 on: June 05, 2008, 02:56:19 pm »
Catro apparently has most of his power going to opposite field...that makes me happy.

It also projects really well for adding more power later on in his career.....

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #188 on: June 05, 2008, 02:56:29 pm »
Castro did very well in the Cape League last summer also.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #189 on: June 05, 2008, 02:56:45 pm »
Excellent points.  That is why the Crow hangover was a lot of what the reaction was about around here.  I think Houston's pick is justifiable in that regard, but when you think to yourself in terms of #10 pick overall, you'd hope they were going to go with a good overall game type of player.  Good hard work for Castro will help.

When Chris Burke was picked #10, he was sold to fans as a shortstop with really close to major league skills.  Some pundits felt Houston was reaching saying that and this all turned out to be true.  When I saw Burke play in Round Rock (AA) for the first time, I was shocked at how bad he was at everything.  Hitting, fielding, running.  He actually needed to go back to instructional league to relearn how to hit a baseball with a wood bat.

This may not be the same thing for Castro, we won't know today or even a year from now, but I think we'll have a better idea.  So the fact it's a #10 pick is making this more about wanting a bit more.  Also that Crow didn't fall didn't help.

Did you just compare Castro to Burke?

If Castro had been available in 2001 he might have gone higher than 10.  Other than Smoak there weren't any surefire guys left.  IMO, they reached a bit.  I thought Lawrie would be better, esp long-term, but he and guys like Hicks and Martin are prepsters.  They're a long way off and, though scouts see a higher ceiling there, will more likely than Castro washout.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #190 on: June 05, 2008, 02:57:16 pm »
Is Smoak a below average fielder?  I thought I read his hands were pretty good, and SC fans always spoke highly of his defense.

If he's blocked in Houston, you would think it would be pretty easy to find someone out there willing to trade for a switch hitter projected to put up big power numbers.


not sure if they would take a guy looking to flip him a year later.  i think it was said earlier in this thread that smoak was a DH-type.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #191 on: June 05, 2008, 02:57:17 pm »
I'm coming back in from the ledge now.  This might not be the event that brings down the entire organization.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #192 on: June 05, 2008, 02:57:22 pm »
I agree completely.  You certainly WANT more from the #10 pick than a catcher who is solid at everything but great at nothing.  But, unfortionately when Crow went at #9, a type of guy who is worthy of the #10 pick in the draft did not exist.

Yes, agreed.  The issue is Smoack versus Castro and because of the limitations of both, I say Castro is probably much better because he *fits* Houston's needs.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #193 on: June 05, 2008, 02:59:20 pm »
I'm coming back in from the ledge now.  This might not be the event that brings down the entire organization.

At the least, he can't do much worse than last year's first round pick.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #194 on: June 05, 2008, 02:59:43 pm »
John Manuel, BA:

Quote
I’m a Jason Castro believer, but 10 seems high for him. I don’t think he was the 10th overall talent, and the Astros have a talented young catcher in J.R. Towles, so why the rush? But Castro can hit and if you believe in the bat, then you take him No. 10 overall.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #195 on: June 05, 2008, 03:01:41 pm »
Here's a question:

Could Shooter Hunt fall all the way to 38?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #196 on: June 05, 2008, 03:03:12 pm »
Did you just compare Castro to Burke?

I compared a number 10 pick to a number 10 pick.  IOW - make sure you're *not* reaching much with such a high pick. Or at least be honest about the player.  Houston gave Burke a one million dollar bonus because they reached. 

Quote
If Castro had been available in 2001 he might have gone higher than 10.  Other than Smoak there weren't any surefire guys left.  IMO, they reached a bit.  I thought Lawrie would be better, esp long-term, but he and guys like Hicks and Martin are prepsters.  They're a long way off and, though scouts see a higher ceiling there, will more likely than Castro washout.

Lawrie reminds me of Biggio, a catcher who projects to be moved in his career to second base.  Like we said earlier (both of us), you don't pick a guy #10 and then move him.  So Lawrie would've been more of a reach to me, even though he more of a refined hitter than Castro.  Castro has better size, better power potential, et. al. but not better overall hitter.

I just think the idea of a hitting catcher is something organizations like.  Skipworth was the gold standard because he actually hits well and has all the catching skills as well.  Joe Mauer comes to mind when I watch video on him.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #197 on: June 05, 2008, 03:03:37 pm »
"He's a really nice package," Astros scouting director Bobby Heck said. "He has durability behind the plate. He was one of the top hitters in the Cape [League]. He does hit with power, but just as attractive is the number of quality at-bats he has. He has an extra focus with runners in scoring position. He's at his best with runners on base."

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #198 on: June 05, 2008, 03:04:35 pm »
First Texas product is TCU reliever Andrew Cashner, taken #19 by the Cubbies.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #199 on: June 05, 2008, 03:05:00 pm »
John Manuel, BA:


I agree with Manuel.  It's all about the fact that it's a #10 pick, but then again if it's Castro or Smoak, I'd take Castro too.  Time will tell.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #200 on: June 05, 2008, 03:05:17 pm »
Just tell me that's a "he is" he's, not a "he has" he's.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #201 on: June 05, 2008, 03:06:13 pm »
Did you just compare Castro to Burke?

If Castro had been available in 2001 he might have gone higher than 10.  Other than Smoak there weren't any surefire guys left.  IMO, they reached a bit.  I thought Lawrie would be better, esp long-term, but he and guys like Hicks and Martin are prepsters.  They're a long way off and, though scouts see a higher ceiling there, will more likely than Castro washout.

Plus look at the track record of top HS catchers taken in high rounds in the last three drafts.  Henriquez.  Sapp.  Anyone want to take another gamble on a HS catcher?  Anyone?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #202 on: June 05, 2008, 03:06:19 pm »
Yes, agreed.  The issue is Smoack versus Castro and because of the limitations of both, I say Castro is probably much better because he *fits* Houston's needs.

“There was pitching on the board,” Ed Wade said. “We had a couple of guys that were still active and alive in the draft. Again, in the work that our scouts have done and prioritizing the group that was there, Castro came out on top of the available pitching that was there at 10.”

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #203 on: June 05, 2008, 03:07:00 pm »
"He's a really nice package," Astros scouting director Bobby Heck said. "He has durability behind the plate. He was one of the top hitters in the Cape [League]. He does hit with power, but just as attractive is the number of quality at-bats he has. He has an extra focus with runners in scoring position. He's at his best with runners on base."

Link

And there it is.  Noe the genius.  Focus on hitting for a catcher.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #204 on: June 05, 2008, 03:09:27 pm »
And there it is.  Noe the genius.  Focus on hitting for a catcher.

Noe, what did Craig Way think of the pick?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #205 on: June 05, 2008, 03:09:38 pm »
"He's a really nice package," Astros scouting director Bobby Heck said. "He has durability behind the plate. He was one of the top hitters in the Cape [League]. He does hit with power, but just as attractive is the number of quality at-bats he has. He has an extra focus with runners in scoring position. He's at his best with runners on base."

Link

This will make the great unwashed do backflips.  "A hitting catcher!?!?", happy days for the fans who have waited long for a relief from watching Brad Ausmus and Ausmus-types behind the dish.  Actually, in the 8 hole.  I can hear it now "Hey Bobby, how soon can this kid report to Houston?  I'll hang up and listen! Woo-hoo!".  If I were Heck, I'd say "when his defense catches up with his other skills".

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #206 on: June 05, 2008, 03:10:31 pm »
"He's a really nice package," Astros scouting director Bobby Heck said. "He has durability behind the plate. He was one of the top hitters in the Cape [League]. He does hit with power, but just as attractive is the number of quality at-bats he has. He has an extra focus with runners in scoring position. He's at his best with runners on base."


I know I'm not so smart, but doesn't that sound like radio-call-in-guy saying they like a catcher because he hits?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #207 on: June 05, 2008, 03:10:40 pm »
It's kind of strange looking his stats from three years at Stanford.  His slugging % is as follows:
2006....396
2007....225
2008....601

I'm assuming this guy stock was nowhere before 2008 and has been rising rapidly.

eta 2007 was 225 rather than 295, with 102 AB
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 03:13:29 pm by jbm »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #208 on: June 05, 2008, 03:12:42 pm »
This will make the great unwashed do backflips.  "A hitting catcher!?!?", happy days for the fans who have waited long for a relief from watching Brad Ausmus and Ausmus-types behind the dish.  Actually, in the 8 hole.  I can hear it now "Hey Bobby, how soon can this kid report to Houston?  I'll hang up and listen! Woo-hoo!".  If I were Heck, I'd say "when his defense catches up with his other skills".

I predict the opposite. You're forgetting who you're dealing with: chronic complainers. I say they'll get religion and focus on his shortcomings as a defender and bitch about not getting value for the #10 pick.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #209 on: June 05, 2008, 03:13:19 pm »
So they passed on Smoak because of position? Am I reading that right?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #210 on: June 05, 2008, 03:13:31 pm »
Noe, what did Craig Way think of the pick?

He called and told me all about a kid he saw catch from Weimer 15 years ago.  He was in little league and Way just happened to be driving through on his way to Johnson City for a five on five football game.  He stopped and watched a while and he said he sees a lot of that kid in Castro.  Then he asked me a trivia question, the answer of which was Fidel Castro.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #211 on: June 05, 2008, 03:13:50 pm »
I predict the opposite. You're forgetting who you're dealing with: chronic complainers. I say they'll get religion and focus on his shortcomings as a defender and bitch about not getting value for the #10 pick.

"He might be able to hit, but he can't hit as well as Smoak so what's the point?"
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #212 on: June 05, 2008, 03:14:24 pm »
“There was pitching on the board,” Ed Wade said. “We had a couple of guys that were still active and alive in the draft. Again, in the work that our scouts have done and prioritizing the group that was there, Castro came out on top of the available pitching that was there at 10.”

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Skipworth was the only high schooler they were looking at.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #213 on: June 05, 2008, 03:14:45 pm »
"He might be able to hit, but he can't hit as well as Smoak so what's the point?"

Yep.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #214 on: June 05, 2008, 03:15:21 pm »
So they passed on Smoak because of position? Am I reading that right?

That is a small part of it, mainly because no one really knows what position Smoak can play.  If it's first base, he better get much better than he is really quick.  If it's DH, he'll be in the majors as early as this September or next year.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #215 on: June 05, 2008, 03:16:31 pm »
I predict the opposite. You're forgetting who you're dealing with: chronic complainers. I say they'll get religion and focus on his shortcomings as a defender and bitch about not getting value for the #10 pick.

I'd be totally shock if even one mention is made of his defense, which is not bad, just average.  They will tell you that they'll take that in a heart beat.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #216 on: June 05, 2008, 03:17:21 pm »
Castro went off in the Cape League last summer and then followed it up with a good season at Stanford.  He didn't exactly come out of no where, or he wouldn't have gotten invited to the Cape League.  Maybe a better way to put it is that he started playing up to his potential last summer.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #217 on: June 05, 2008, 03:18:16 pm »
"He might be able to hit, but he can't hit as well as Smoak, who you can easily convert to catcher, so what's the point?"

FIFY

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #218 on: June 05, 2008, 03:19:38 pm »
From his Stanford player page:

Quote
General: Looking for a breakout junior campaign after showing his skills during a fantastic 2007 summer campaign • Has a chance to be one of the premier catchers in college baseball but is expected to split his time between catcher and first base • Expected to be healthy to begin the 2008 campaign after struggling with a preseason injury in 2007 that never really allowed him to get untracked • Gained lots of his confidence back with his 2007 summer season • A very athletic and strong athlete who is primed to become one of the team's premier players • Expected to hit in the middle of the lineup • A natural talent who has also worked very hard to improve his game • Has all the tools with good power, speed and size • Also an excellent defensive player at first base and behind the plate • Has a high ceiling of potential and has the potential to go high in the 2008 MLB First-Year Player Draft in June • A quick learner.

Notice: missed time with injury during soph. year.  Drafted by the Red Sox in 05 out of HS
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #219 on: June 05, 2008, 03:21:07 pm »
someone tell me when Kyle Russell goes. i have a bet on another board that it will not be before 5th round.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #220 on: June 05, 2008, 03:21:17 pm »
So they passed on Smoak because of position? Am I reading that right?

As opposed to the Mets who took a shortstop who will move to third base and is expected to move quickly through the organization.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #221 on: June 05, 2008, 03:24:20 pm »
As opposed to the Mets who took a shortstop who will move to third base and is expected to move quickly through the organization.

Maybe a move to 2b instead?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #222 on: June 05, 2008, 03:28:46 pm »
freidrich went #25 to the Rockies.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #223 on: June 05, 2008, 03:28:49 pm »
Maybe a move to 2b instead?

That is what Law said. There's also talk of maybe turning him into a catcher.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #224 on: June 05, 2008, 03:30:48 pm »
As opposed to the Mets who took a shortstop who will move to third base and is expected to move quickly through the organization.

Not sure if you're saying the Astros' approach is better or worse than the Mets' approach, but to me Smoak was a no-brainer pick at #10. A lot can happen in a season or two. Even if he's ready to play next year, the Astros have some flexibility with Pence able to play centerfield (not too far below average from what I remember) opening up right field for Berkman. Passing on a relatively can't miss (as far as the MLB draft goes) 30+ HR switch hitter who is almost ML ready is a head scratcher, in my humble opinion of course.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #225 on: June 05, 2008, 03:32:13 pm »
Notice: missed time with injury during soph. year.  Drafted by the Red Sox in 05 out of HS

Well, if he was good enough for the Red Sox them I'm fine with the deal.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #226 on: June 05, 2008, 03:32:19 pm »
Not sure if you're saying the Astros' approach is better or worse than the Mets' approach, but to me Smoak was a no-brainer pick at #10. A lot can happen in a season or two. Even if he's ready to play next year, the Astros have some flexibility with Pence able to play centerfield (not too far below average from what I remember) opening up right field for Berkman. Passing on a relatively can't miss (as far as the MLB draft goes) 30+ HR switch hitter who is almost ML ready is a head scratcher, in my humble opinion of course.

they do not want Berkman in RF. Pence is a terrible CF. that's why you're better off just watching, like i'm doing.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #227 on: June 05, 2008, 03:32:21 pm »
Not sure if you're saying the Astros' approach is better or worse than the Mets' approach, but to me Smoak was a no-brainer pick at #10. A lot can happen in a season or two. Even if he's ready to play next year, the Astros have some flexibility with Pence able to play centerfield (not too far below average from what I remember) opening up right field for Berkman. Passing on a relatively can't miss (as far as the MLB draft goes) 30+ HR switch hitter who is almost ML ready is a head scratcher, in my humble opinion of course.

Lee-Pence-Berkman would be an OF of historic proportions.  And not in any good way.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #228 on: June 05, 2008, 03:32:50 pm »
On another note, just surprised by this pick (and a bit disappointed as we came soooooo close to Crow).  Like someone said earlier, we have a new crew at the helm and for now they get the benefit of the doubt (from my perspective anyway).
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #229 on: June 05, 2008, 03:33:15 pm »
that's why you're better off just watching, like i'm doing.

Read more, post less never goes away.  If I remembered this, I wouldn't have made an ass of myself when the pick was announced.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #230 on: June 05, 2008, 03:33:27 pm »
Not sure if you're saying the Astros' approach is better or worse than the Mets' approach, but to me Smoak was a no-brainer pick at #10. A lot can happen in a season or two. Even if he's ready to play next year, the Astros have some flexibility with Pence able to play centerfield (not too far below average from what I remember) opening up right field for Berkman. Passing on a relatively can't miss (as far as the MLB draft goes) 30+ HR switch hitter who is almost ML ready is a head scratcher, in my humble opinion of course.
i could be worng, but i am almost sure the astros thinking is 100% opposite from yours in regards to pence to CF and berkman to RF, especially if they were moving for some cherry draft pick.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #231 on: June 05, 2008, 03:35:34 pm »
ESPN gasbag Mark Schlereth's kid just got picked by the Snakes.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #232 on: June 05, 2008, 03:36:54 pm »
i could be worng, but i am almost sure the astros thinking is 100% opposite from yours in regards to pence to CF and berkman to RF, especially if they were moving for some cherry draft pick.

you may be worng, but you're definitely not wrong. that would be a terrible defensive OF and the Astros brass knows this.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #233 on: June 05, 2008, 03:37:45 pm »
Even if he's ready to play next year, the Astros have some flexibility with Pence able to play centerfield (not too far below average from what I remember) opening up right field for Berkman.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #234 on: June 05, 2008, 03:39:03 pm »
Not sure if you're saying the Astros' approach is better or worse than the Mets' approach, but to me Smoak was a no-brainer pick at #10. A lot can happen in a season or two. Even if he's ready to play next year, the Astros have some flexibility with Pence able to play centerfield (not too far below average from what I remember) opening up right field for Berkman. Passing on a relatively can't miss (as far as the MLB draft goes) 30+ HR switch hitter who is almost ML ready is a head scratcher, in my humble opinion of course.

Took 12 pages before we got to our first fantacrap post.

Did it ever occur to you that if the Astros wanted that kind of lineup they'd have had Pence in center, Berkman in right, and Erstad at first everyday?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #235 on: June 05, 2008, 03:40:17 pm »
ESPN gasbag Mark Schlereth's kid just got picked by the Snakes.

I would've loved for Houston to have this kid drop down to them at 38.  A reliever is hard to justify so high, but that's two relievers (Josh Fields and now Daniel Schlereth) in the first round. 

ETA: And now Carlos Guiterrez goes to the Twinkies, a closer in college.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #236 on: June 05, 2008, 03:41:19 pm »
I would've loved for Houston to have this kid drop down to them at 38.  A reliever is hard to justify so high, but that's two relievers (Josh Fields and now Daniel Schlereth) in the first round. 
i think they said cashner (to Cubs) was a reliever also.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #237 on: June 05, 2008, 03:41:35 pm »
Even if he's ready to play next year, the Astros have some flexibility with Pence able to play centerfield (not too far below average from what I remember) opening up right field for Berkman.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #238 on: June 05, 2008, 03:42:33 pm »
It's a lot easier to find a spot for someone who doesn't quite have enough range to play short (the mets pick) compared to a guy who's not really even good at first(Smoak).
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 03:44:21 pm by kevwun »
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #239 on: June 05, 2008, 03:43:22 pm »
you may be worng, but you're definitely not wrong. that would be a terrible defensive OF and the Astros brass knows this.

His comment was pure stupidity, but there is a lot to be said for drafting the best available talent.  It's preferable to have a farm laden with talent that you can trade for your needs at the major league level than to reach for that need in the draft, IMHO.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #240 on: June 05, 2008, 03:43:57 pm »
Took 12 pages before we got to our first fantacrap post.

Did it ever occur to you that if the Astros wanted that kind of lineup they'd have had Pence in center, Berkman in right, and Erstad at first everyday?

Not defending the non-defense post but if something was to happen to Bourn, Isn't Erstad a better CF then Pence?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #241 on: June 05, 2008, 03:45:02 pm »
His comment was pure stupidity, but there is a lot to be said for drafting the best available talent.  It's preferable to have a farm laden with talent that you can trade for your needs at the major league level than to reach for that need in the draft, IMHO.

and i'll say again, that may be what Wade did in HIS opinion.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #242 on: June 05, 2008, 03:46:20 pm »
they do not want Berkman in RF. Pence is a terrible CF. that's why you're better off just watching, like i'm doing.

Well you're clearly right, apparently that is what they think. I guess we'll see about the results of the pick. I'm still a firm believer of BPA in the MLB draft, lots of changes could take place by the time Smoak is ready.

edit: the outfield suggestion was only one possibility... what if Berkman or Lee get hurt or drop off the planet or Pence for that matter?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #243 on: June 05, 2008, 03:47:09 pm »
ESPN gasbag Mark Schlereth's kid just got picked by the Snakes.

Wow...another guy to add to the D'backs closer by commitee come September
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #244 on: June 05, 2008, 03:47:48 pm »
and i'll say again, that may be what Wade did in HIS opinion.

If Wade is looking at offense AND defense, then I can believe Castro was above Smoak on his board.  Fantacrap/AL team in need of a DH, pick is Smoak.  That is the Rangers right now.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #245 on: June 05, 2008, 03:48:46 pm »
Cole (Borass advisee and top 10 talent demanding big signing bonus) dropping down to the Yankees.  There's a surprise....
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #246 on: June 05, 2008, 03:49:21 pm »
It's preferable to have a farm laden with talent that you can trade for your needs at the major league level than to reach for that need in the draft, IMHO.

Well yeah, but doesn't a LH-hitting catcher with a plus bat have comparable trade value?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #247 on: June 05, 2008, 03:49:28 pm »
I realize this is a Draft discussion thread, but for those of us at work that can't spend every second online, can someone post a thread that just has the picks?  Maybe an admin can lock it so that no one can post there? 
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #248 on: June 05, 2008, 03:49:47 pm »
what if Berkman or Lee get hurt or drop off the planet or Pence for that matter?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #249 on: June 05, 2008, 03:50:05 pm »


what if Berkman or Lee get hurt or drop off the planet or Pence for that matter?

That is possible.  But.  The Astros are devoid almost completely of talent in the minors and, IMO, Castro is a more complete player than Smoak.  So, as Jim said, it is plausible that Castro was over Smoak on their board.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #250 on: June 05, 2008, 03:51:11 pm »
Cole (Borass advisee and top 10 talent demanding big signing bonus) dropping down to the Yankees.  There's a surprise....

I don't know shit about pitching mechanics, but his delivery looks like it needs a lot of work.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #251 on: June 05, 2008, 03:51:38 pm »
I realize this is a Draft discussion thread, but for those of us at work that can't spend every second online, can someone post a thread that just has the picks?  Maybe an admin can lock it so that no one can post there? 

MLB.com has a draft tracker that does that.  There's a link on their front page.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #252 on: June 05, 2008, 03:51:59 pm »
If Wade is looking at offense AND defense, then I can believe Castro was above Smoak on his board.  Fantacrap/AL team in need of a DH, pick is Smoak.  That is the Rangers right now.

Maybe if the MLB draft was more like the NFL draft. I simply don't agree with drafting based on the needs of the current ML roster. The system is close to empty, BPA makes sense.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #253 on: June 05, 2008, 03:52:23 pm »
If Wade is looking at offense AND defense, then I can believe Castro was above Smoak on his board.  Fantacrap/AL team in need of a DH, pick is Smoak.  That is the Rangers right now.

Plus you're still talking "catcher" for all intents and purposes.  Catcher who can hit is a rarity and this kid apparently can do just that.  He needs to develop the defense to be at least slighty better than average, but he's supposedly very smart and learns quickly.  Give him a good development team in the minors and he may just do that.

Again, for everyone else, the problem was that he was not tabbed as a top ten selection and that threw everyone for a loop.  To be a top ten guy, you have to have a well rounded game and very little gaps or at least great projectability.  Castros may not develop the catching skills but he can at least fall back on what he does best... hit a baseball.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #254 on: June 05, 2008, 03:53:16 pm »
Maybe if the MLB draft was more like the NFL draft. I simply don't agree with drafting based on the needs of the current ML roster. The system is close to empty, BPA makes sense.
but if the guy is so major ready that it would retard his growth to keep at RR, then looking in another position makes more sense.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #255 on: June 05, 2008, 03:53:52 pm »
Well yeah, but doesn't a LH-hitting catcher with a plus bat have comparable trade value?

I know nothing other than the comments/opinions expressed and posted on this board.  I didn't scout the players and have no idea whether Wade thought this was the best player available or reached based on need.  If he projects as Wade hopefully believes he will, then I'd imagine so.  

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #256 on: June 05, 2008, 03:54:29 pm »
Maybe if the MLB draft was more like the NFL draft. I simply don't agree with drafting based on the needs of the current ML roster. The system is close to empty, BPA makes sense.

Que es BPA?  Best. Player. Available?  If so, Castros is a better *player*, Smoak is a better hitter.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #257 on: June 05, 2008, 03:54:47 pm »
The system is close to empty, BPA makes sense.

I don't think you'll get much argument there, but you're assuming that BA's BPA at #10 is the same as Heck/Wade. I don't think we can make that assumption unless we're privy to their draft board.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #258 on: June 05, 2008, 03:54:55 pm »
Maybe if the MLB draft was more like the NFL draft. I simply don't agree with drafting based on the needs of the current ML roster. The system is close to empty, BPA makes sense.

Um, the org needs EVERYTHING.  There is nothing there.  They have a young catcher in the majors they handed the job to.  From that perspective catcher is not a need either.  It is fully plausible that Castro was higher rated than Smoak when defense is factored in.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #259 on: June 05, 2008, 03:55:11 pm »
Maybe if the MLB draft was more like the NFL draft. I simply don't agree with drafting based on the needs of the current ML roster. The system is close to empty, BPA makes sense.

The argument can easily be made to take BPA in my opinion too...although i like the Castro pick.   But throwing out scenarios of tweaking the Stros roster that downgrades defense won't go over well here
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #260 on: June 05, 2008, 03:55:12 pm »
Maybe if the MLB draft was more like the NFL draft. I simply don't agree with drafting based on the needs of the current ML roster. The system is close to empty, BPA makes sense.

newsflash: no one here cares what you agree with, primarily because it is relevant to nothing. read more, post much less.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #261 on: June 05, 2008, 03:55:40 pm »
MLB.com has a draft tracker that does that.  There's a link on their front page.

Duh, thanks.  I am so brain tired from teaching summer school--4 straight hours of chemistry then 4.5 straight hours of physics--I'm surprised I even remember my own name. 
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #262 on: June 05, 2008, 03:55:51 pm »
Maybe if the MLB draft was more like the NFL draft. I simply don't agree with drafting based on the needs of the current ML roster. The system is close to empty, BPA makes sense.

Best player available, not the best hitter available.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #263 on: June 05, 2008, 03:56:05 pm »
Cole (Borass advisee and top 10 talent demanding big signing bonus) dropping down to the Yankees.  There's a surprise....

Josh Fields went to the Mariners in this first round, after last year spurning the Braves because he wanted big money.  He is also a Boras kid.  I wonder if Fields will demand even more money since he had a better campaign this year than he did last year in college.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #264 on: June 05, 2008, 03:57:09 pm »
Here's a question:

Could Shooter Hunt fall all the way to 38?

he'll go 37

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #265 on: June 05, 2008, 03:57:41 pm »
Maybe if the MLB draft was more like the NFL draft. I simply don't agree with drafting based on the needs of the current ML roster. The system is close to empty, BPA makes sense.

Offensive skills Smoak was undoubtedly the best available, but you have to play defense and firstbase is one of the easiest.  Position effects BPA.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #266 on: June 05, 2008, 03:57:46 pm »
Plus you're still talking "catcher" for all intents and purposes.  Catcher who can hit is a rarity and this kid apparently can do just that.  He needs to develop the defense to be at least slighty better than average, but he's supposedly very smart and learns quickly.  Give him a good development team in the minors and he may just do that.

Everything I've read about him sounds promising, but isn't this what Sapp was supposed to be also?


Again, for everyone else, the problem was that he was not tabbed as a top ten selection and that threw everyone for a loop.  To be a top ten guy, you have to have a well rounded game and very little gaps or at least great projectability.

Just to clarify, are you saying top 10 guys have well rounded games [and very little gaps or at least geat projectability]?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #267 on: June 05, 2008, 04:00:30 pm »
Um, the org needs EVERYTHING.  There is nothing there.  They have a young catcher in the majors they handed the job to.  From that perspective catcher is not a need either.  It is fully plausible that Castro was higher rated than Smoak when defense is factored in.

Castro projects to AJ Pier... god i hate that guy. Smoak projects to Teixiera, right?

I understand what you are saying. I also think that the pick was heavily influenced by the current roster makeup of the ML club, which is what I'm taking issue with. Not the pick in and of itself, I suppose.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #268 on: June 05, 2008, 04:01:29 pm »
1st round supp is coming up.  Shooter Hunt, Tim Melville, and Ross Seaton are still on the board.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #269 on: June 05, 2008, 04:02:29 pm »
  Castros may not develop the catching skills but he can at least fall back on what he does best... hit a baseball.

I realize it's his college bio page and his mom likely wrote it, but I was encouraged by these comments in regards to future development behind the plate...

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #270 on: June 05, 2008, 04:03:20 pm »
Castro projects to AJ Pier... god i hate that guy. Smoak projects to Teixiera, right?

I understand what you are saying. I also think that the pick was heavily influenced by the current roster makeup of the ML club, which is what I'm taking issue with. Not the pick in and of itself, I suppose.

Teixiera is better defensively.  Smoak may be as much a DH for the Rangers as a 1B.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #271 on: June 05, 2008, 04:03:28 pm »
I like that he's not a fat ass ala Max Sapp.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #272 on: June 05, 2008, 04:05:04 pm »
1st round supp is coming up.  Shooter Hunt, Tim Melville, and Ross Seaton are still on the board.

what order do you think the astros have those 3 players if they make it to 38?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #273 on: June 05, 2008, 04:05:37 pm »
Everything I've read about him sounds promising, but isn't this what Sapp was supposed to be also?


Sapp was a high school catcher with one big tool, left-handed power, who many scouts doubted could stay behind the plate.  So, no they are not seen the same way.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #274 on: June 05, 2008, 04:06:24 pm »
Sapp was a high school catcher with one big tool,

Dude.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #275 on: June 05, 2008, 04:07:04 pm »
what order do you think the astros have those 3 players if they make it to 38?

No idea.  But, I'd bet Hunt is gone before 38.  I'm guessing Seaton if he's there at 38.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #276 on: June 05, 2008, 04:07:09 pm »
Everything I've read about him sounds promising, but isn't this what Sapp was supposed to be also?

So you're saying that the Astros should avoid catchers because of Sapp?  And the folks who chose Sapp are no longer on the job.

Quote
Just to clarify, are you saying top 10 guys have well rounded games [and very little gaps or at least geat projectability]?

Typically, yes.  Justin Smoak was projected high by pundits because the guy can absolutely hit a baseball... no doubts about that.  And that is about it.  I used to marvel at a kid in the minors every time I saw him hit, his name was Jack Cust.  He could mash and not a single solitary pitcher who went against him got away unscathed.  But Cust also had a skillet for a glove.  His play in left field was an adventure.  They could not hide him anywhere, because he was just not a good defender.  But if you can hit, they'll find a place for you.  If it's an American League team, it's certainly easy to find a job as a DH.

So Justin Smoak may turn out to be a decent enough first baseman but chances are good he'll be a DH for Texas.  And at one time Jason Botts was the can't miss masher for the Rangers until he started to face really good AAA pitching and major leaguers.

So overall, if you want a one dimensional player, you're not talking BPA, your talking the way the ball is hit and not much more from there.  Remember, Justin Smoak was supposed to be a sure lock for a top nine pick, maybe even a top five pick, he dropped to 11 and probably because he doesn't do much else but hit.  That Alonso went ahead of him tells you something.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #277 on: June 05, 2008, 04:09:42 pm »
What's with the long delay?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #278 on: June 05, 2008, 04:10:04 pm »
the mid-round break is 15 minutes.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #279 on: June 05, 2008, 04:12:28 pm »
Sapp was a high school catcher with one big tool, left-handed power, who many scouts doubted could stay behind the plate.  So, no they are not seen the same way.

Also not a top ten pick.  Houston did not have a can't miss prospect starring them in the face and they took Sapp instead, that is not how this works.  This scenario is at number ten, did they take the BPA... yes, if you believe Heck and Wade know what they're doing.

If not, then go ahead and call them out and say they're full of shite.  (not you Jacksonian, I'm using the proverbial you here).

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #280 on: June 05, 2008, 04:12:37 pm »
Damn, there goes Hunt.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #281 on: June 05, 2008, 04:13:08 pm »
Everything I've read about him sounds promising, but isn't this what Sapp was supposed to be also?

You're right. The shouldn't ever draft anybody again.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #282 on: June 05, 2008, 04:13:19 pm »
Five relievers total went in the first round.  Tells you all you want to know about the starters available.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #283 on: June 05, 2008, 04:13:38 pm »
Maybe if the MLB draft was more like the NFL draft. I simply don't agree with drafting based on the needs of the current ML roster. The system is close to empty, BPA makes sense.

It's not the players on the roster that they're drafting by; it's the actual make-up of the roster. There's no DH, and I don't think the NL will have one by the time Smoak is ready for the big leagues, either. (That said, I won't put anything past Selig.]
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #284 on: June 05, 2008, 04:14:14 pm »
No idea.  But, I'd bet Hunt is gone before 38.  I'm guessing Seaton if he's there at 38.

Iirc Callis said he was a target for the Astros at 38 but probably wouldn't fall that far.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #285 on: June 05, 2008, 04:15:39 pm »
Iirc Callis said he was a target for the Astros at 38 but probably wouldn't fall that far.

Hunt or Seaton?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #286 on: June 05, 2008, 04:15:56 pm »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #287 on: June 05, 2008, 04:16:52 pm »
Iirc Callis said he was a target for the Astros at 38 but probably wouldn't fall that far.

We do know they're targeting up the middle guys, so P, SS, 2nd, CF are in play.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #288 on: June 05, 2008, 04:17:08 pm »
Seaton.

Gotcha.

Melville and Seaton are still available. Wouldn't mind giving the Astros a chance to consider either of them.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #289 on: June 05, 2008, 04:18:03 pm »
Before the next Astros pick is on the board, Castro lists his favorite Stanford road trip being the one to Texas.  Maybe he will be there soon

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #290 on: June 05, 2008, 04:18:42 pm »
What's the word on signability with Seaton?  Probably helps he's a hometown kid

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #291 on: June 05, 2008, 04:19:50 pm »
Seaton's available.  Will he be a hard sign though since he committed to Tulane?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #292 on: June 05, 2008, 04:20:10 pm »
There's no DH, and I don't think the NL will have one by the time Smoak is ready for the big leagues, either. (That said, I won't put anything past Selig.]

To be fair....i've heard some claim that Smoak's defense at 1B projects to be adequate in the major leagues.   It's not as if the only position he can play is DH...i feel the argument has swung that way due to the Rangers picking him and Teixiera being better defensively.   However, we do have a pretty good first baseman at the major league level that's probably going to be there for a while
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #293 on: June 05, 2008, 04:20:16 pm »
here we come...

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #294 on: June 05, 2008, 04:20:58 pm »
What's the word on signability with Seaton?  Probably helps he's a hometown kid

Word is he would've gone higher had it not been to his desire to pitch for Tulane.  It will take more money than slot to get him.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #295 on: June 05, 2008, 04:22:06 pm »
Jordan Lyles....anyone know anythign?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #296 on: June 05, 2008, 04:22:20 pm »
Jordan Lyles.

Anyone?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #297 on: June 05, 2008, 04:22:25 pm »
And #38 overall is...

Jordan Lyles, RHP (HS).  Power righty arm.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #298 on: June 05, 2008, 04:23:01 pm »
Jordan Lyles, power armed high school right hander.  I think Seaton is scarying teams with his desire to be paid huge money to keep from going to Tulane.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #299 on: June 05, 2008, 04:23:27 pm »
After last year, I'd think we'd be more "pound smart."  Loved hearing on the radio today about how cheap Drayton is when it comes to signing draftees.  Those guys need to come up with some new material.  I listen to that shit whenever I need to feel better about myself after getting ragged on this board.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #300 on: June 05, 2008, 04:24:17 pm »
To be fair....i've heard some claim that Smoak's defense at 1B projects to be adequate in the major leagues.   It's not as if the only position he can play is DH...i feel the argument has swung that way due to the Rangers picking him and Teixiera being better defensively.   However, we do have a pretty good first baseman at the major league level that's probably going to be there for a while

Smoak is really slow.  That's where the questions about his ability to play first base come from.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #301 on: June 05, 2008, 04:24:43 pm »
To be fair....i've heard some claim that Smoak's defense at 1B projects to be adequate in the major leagues.   It's not as if the only position he can play is DH...i feel the argument has swung that way due to the Rangers picking him and Teixiera being better defensively.   However, we do have a pretty good first baseman at the major league level that's probably going to be there for a while

Yes, it is very fair to say he's a first baseman as his ceiling on defense... and that's it.  But if you play in a league that has a DH, you have a job for him almost immediately this September or early next year as he is projected to be ready for the majors in terms of hitting.  He just wasn't a fit as a player for Houston.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #302 on: June 05, 2008, 04:26:07 pm »
Goldstein is ripping the Lyles pick at BP.  I feel better.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #303 on: June 05, 2008, 04:26:23 pm »
lyles follow through looks alot like josh beckett.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #304 on: June 05, 2008, 04:28:14 pm »
lyles follow through looks alot like josh beckett.

He looks good on video. Big mound presence.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #305 on: June 05, 2008, 04:29:25 pm »
BA doesn't seem to care for Lyles, either, though some detailed scouting here:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=328
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #306 on: June 05, 2008, 04:30:23 pm »
Manuel on Lyles:

Quote
The Astros are the Astros, and after taking Jason Castro at 10 overall—considered a reach for a late-first-round talent—they went off the board with their supplemental pick, taking 6-foot-4 Jordan Lyles. He didn’t make BA’s Top 200, and ranked seventh in the state of South Carolina, tops among prep players. Here’s Matt Blood’s scouting report on Lyles:

Righthander Jordan Lyles leads the high school ranks. Blessed with a clean and easy delivery, Lyles offers a fastball in the upper 80s and can break 90 mph on occasion. He also has room in his 6-foot-4 frame to add strength and velocity. Lyles also throws a curveball and changeup and can command all three pitches. A three-sport star in high school, Lyles is athletic on the mound. He is committed to South Carolina.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

DVauthrin

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #307 on: June 05, 2008, 04:32:22 pm »
BA doesn't seem to care for Lyles, either, though some detailed scouting here:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=328


I think they are idiots judging by his scouting report.   

Righthander Jordan Lyles leads the high school ranks. Blessed with a clean and easy delivery, Lyles offers a fastball in the upper 80s and can break 90 mph on occasion. He also has room in his 6-foot-4 frame to add strength and velocity. Lyles also throws a curveball and changeup and can command all three pitches. A three-sport star in high school, Lyles is athletic on the mound. He is committed to South Carolina.

Yeah, it's so common to see a high school pitcher who has good command of a fastball, curve and change, with good mechanics and likely a good fielder at his position.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 04:34:00 pm by DVauthrin »
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #308 on: June 05, 2008, 04:33:42 pm »
Initially was hoping the team would look more towards college starters than the high school ranks in the early rounds, but I trust heckwad with the calls.  Plus, I like that this guy isn't just a pure power armed brute that they hope they can develop... not that my opinion matters.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 04:37:09 pm by hostros7 »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #309 on: June 05, 2008, 04:40:44 pm »
He just wasn't a fit as a player for Houston.

Exactly.  That would be why we didn't pick him
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #310 on: June 05, 2008, 04:42:21 pm »
I think they are idiots judging by his scouting report.   

Righthander Jordan Lyles leads the high school ranks. Blessed with a clean and easy delivery, Lyles offers a fastball in the upper 80s and can break 90 mph on occasion. He also has room in his 6-foot-4 frame to add strength and velocity. Lyles also throws a curveball and changeup and can command all three pitches. A three-sport star in high school, Lyles is athletic on the mound. He is committed to South Carolina.

Yeah, it's so common to see a high school pitcher who has good command of a fastball, curve and change, with good mechanics and likely a good fielder at his position.



And an athlete to boot:

Quote
Lyles Headed To USC
By Phil Kornblut

Shrine Bowl receiver Jordan Lyles (6-5 200) of Hartsville has committed to USC...for baseball. Lyles said he committed to the Gamecocks a couple of weeks ago after being accepted into school and getting his offer. "That's where I've always wanted to go," Lyles said. "It's going to be a great experience coming to the SEC with a top team, and the new stadium only helps." Lyles was 6-2 this season for the Red Foxes. He also batted. .420. Lyles said he throws a fastball between 87-88 MPH, and also throws a cut fastball, a changeup and a curve. Lyles, who caught 81 passes during the football season, said USC football recruiter David Reaves has told him he can join the football team as a walk-on, but Lyles said he doubts he'll try football. Lyles said he also had offers from Spartanburg Methodist, Liberty, The Citadel, Western Michigan and Presbyterian.

He throws a cutter?  Really?  Judging by the schools that recruited him, seems Mr. Lyles might be the character type of guy that the Astros like to bring into the system.  Remember that Wade has 8 points he has scouts judge a player on, including a 40 yard dash.  If Lyles was a reciever, he may of graded out well on all 8 points.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 04:46:20 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #311 on: June 05, 2008, 04:44:38 pm »
Quote
Manuel on Lyles:


Quote
The Astros are the Astros, and after taking Jason Castro at 10 overall—considered a reach for a late-first-round talent—they went off the board with their supplemental pick, taking 6-foot-4 Jordan Lyles. He didn’t make BA’s Top 200, and ranked seventh in the state of South Carolina, tops among prep players. Here’s Matt Blood’s scouting report on Lyles:

Righthander Jordan Lyles leads the high school ranks. Blessed with a clean and easy delivery, Lyles offers a fastball in the upper 80s and can break 90 mph on occasion. He also has room in his 6-foot-4 frame to add strength and velocity. Lyles also throws a curveball and changeup and can command all three pitches. A three-sport star in high school, Lyles is athletic on the mound. He is committed to South Carolina.

  The problem here is would he have been available a few rounds later?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #312 on: June 05, 2008, 04:46:06 pm »
 The problem here is would the have been around a few rounds later?

You can ask that question of any high school pick from here on out.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #313 on: June 05, 2008, 04:48:01 pm »
  The problem here is would he have been available a few rounds later?

It's about the drafting board that Houston has, if he's up on the top part of the board and available and he fits what they need and the money has already been talked about, then why wait?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #314 on: June 05, 2008, 04:52:30 pm »
I missed it.  Does the 2nd round start at 5?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #315 on: June 05, 2008, 04:52:43 pm »
Has there been definitive news on Tanner Scheppers' injury?  Any one think the next pick may be a good time to take a flyer on a guy who was a top 10 pick a few weeks ago?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #316 on: June 05, 2008, 04:53:18 pm »
 The problem here is would he have been available a few rounds later?
duane brown would have been available in the seocnd or third too, right after norv turner took him at #27 in the first round.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #317 on: June 05, 2008, 04:53:54 pm »
Has there been definitive news on Tanner Scheppers' injury?  Any one think the next pick may be a good time to take a flyer on a guy who was a top 10 pick a few weeks ago?

None that I've heard.  I bet he's headed back to college.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #318 on: June 05, 2008, 04:55:06 pm »
I missed it.  Does the 2nd round start at 5?

5:15

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #319 on: June 05, 2008, 04:55:44 pm »
5:15

Crap.  Then I'd better start my commute.......now.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #320 on: June 05, 2008, 05:08:47 pm »
I found these stats on Lyles from a Gamecock chatboard:

Ht: 6-foot-4
Wt: 190 lbs
Forty: 4.59 secs
Vertical: 31 inches

Pretty impressive

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #321 on: June 05, 2008, 05:18:47 pm »
Does drafting Castro mean the Astros have given up on Sapp? I understand the draft, in any sport, is a crap shoot. But isn't this a premature coup de grace for Sapp's career? Or not? Sapp is still young, he's only twenty and he's a year younger than Castro. He hasn't shown much, if any, improvement since he's was drafted, but I've been under the impression that he was a "project."




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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #322 on: June 05, 2008, 05:22:55 pm »
Lyles has already signed.
That was quick.
At the top of Drayton's board?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #323 on: June 05, 2008, 05:28:04 pm »
Source?
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #324 on: June 05, 2008, 05:28:29 pm »
Can someone wiser than I in the pitcher scouting department take a look at the video of Lyles on the mlb draft trackerand tell me what you think? From this layperson's perspective, his delivery seems very natural, fluid, and polished.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #325 on: June 05, 2008, 05:31:05 pm »
Lyles has already signed.
That was quick.
At the top of Drayton's board?

Good. That's one bad thought from my mind.  Reading about his commitment to South Carolina, I was wondering.  I'll be curious to hear Heck's thoughts on him.  

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #326 on: June 05, 2008, 05:31:17 pm »
Lyles has already signed.***

Am not finding this.  Where did you hear it?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #327 on: June 05, 2008, 05:32:12 pm »
Astros next pick up soon...

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #328 on: June 05, 2008, 05:33:58 pm »
Stros stick with up the middle players as they've taken CF Joseph Austin from North Atlanta HS
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #329 on: June 05, 2008, 05:35:06 pm »
Lefty CF, 5'11", 170 lbs., born 8/10/1990. Damn that's young.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #330 on: June 05, 2008, 05:35:51 pm »
Stros stick with up the middle players as they've taken CF Joseph Austin from North Atlanta HS

Had a feeling a high school CF was next.  Wouldn't be surprised to see a college pitcher next.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #331 on: June 05, 2008, 05:36:52 pm »
No scouting report by MLB on either of their last 2 picks.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #332 on: June 05, 2008, 05:37:22 pm »
his scouting video has him throwing off the mound also.. wonder if this will be a consideration for him.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #333 on: June 05, 2008, 05:37:39 pm »
Tanner Scheppers got picked by Pittsburgh at #48
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #334 on: June 05, 2008, 05:38:01 pm »
The word "project" was used....  and another quote of "a bit of a stretch".

I just wish they'd draft a bit 'safer' when our farm system is so empty   ???

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #335 on: June 05, 2008, 05:38:21 pm »
Goldstein at BP is just going nuts...

Quote
Kevin Goldstein (3:37:33 PM PT): If you are looking to keep hating on Astros, one insider callled Joe Austin's scouting bureau video the funniest things he's ever seen and called it a 20 bat.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #336 on: June 05, 2008, 05:40:11 pm »
re:  Lyles
radio interview, no link.
He said the local scout had papers to him immediately, and the team knew his demands in advance.
Sorry to say it but did not sound like the sharpest tool in the shed.
He and the Stanford catcher make for quite a pair.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #337 on: June 05, 2008, 05:41:51 pm »
this kid looks really fast.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #338 on: June 05, 2008, 05:42:11 pm »
Goldstein at BP is just going nuts...


let him go nuts, he doesn't know any more than the rest of the world how good these players will become.   That is dependent on the player's work ethic and makeup along with natural talent..
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #339 on: June 05, 2008, 05:42:29 pm »
Goldstein at BP is just going nuts...



That's starting to become a comfort.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #340 on: June 05, 2008, 05:42:33 pm »
Goldstein at BP is just going nuts...


BA has him at #99.  Speed to burn.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #341 on: June 05, 2008, 05:45:04 pm »
let him go nuts, he doesn't know any more than the rest of the world how good these players will become.   That is dependent on the player's work ethic and makeup along with natural talent..

What's Goldstein's background?  If he was as good as Heck/Wade, he'd have their job.  I'll stick with the heckwad.

dirty steve

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #342 on: June 05, 2008, 05:47:03 pm »
What's Goldstein's background?  If he was as good as Heck/Wade, he'd have their job.  I'll stick with the heckwad.

same applies to Steve Phillips and Keith Law, all ex-MLB executives. 

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #343 on: June 05, 2008, 05:47:23 pm »
BA has him at #99.  Speed to burn.

Not that it means anything, but Rivals.com has him ranked #44 among high school baseball prospects.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #344 on: June 05, 2008, 05:50:50 pm »
Not that it means anything, but Rivals.com has him ranked #44 among high school baseball prospects.

The Astros will change his swing a bit I bet.  4 seconds from home to first on a grounder.  Bourn-esque.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #345 on: June 05, 2008, 05:51:49 pm »
Next pick #88

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #346 on: June 05, 2008, 05:53:22 pm »
Hey Duman.  Assuming Austin signs soon, the G-Stros pitchers should be very happy with Austin in center.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #347 on: June 05, 2008, 05:54:03 pm »
The Astros will change his swing a bit I bet.  4 seconds from home to first on a grounder.  Bourn-esque.

IOW your prototypical "raw speedster with lots of upside" pick?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #348 on: June 05, 2008, 05:54:07 pm »
re:  Lyles
radio interview, no link.

Thanks!
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #349 on: June 05, 2008, 05:55:40 pm »
IOW your prototypical "raw speedster with lots of upside" pick?

When you read the draft review you'll note at the bottom that I say to give drafts 5 years before evaluating.  Austin will need all 5 of those years before you know what he's got.  And he may still be a year or two from the majors then.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #350 on: June 05, 2008, 05:55:50 pm »
Hey Duman.  Assuming Austin signs soon, the G-Stros pitchers should be very happy with Austin in center.
speaking of signability, how you guys feel about Lyles?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #351 on: June 05, 2008, 05:57:10 pm »
speaking of signability, how you guys feel about Lyles?
Signed. See above.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #352 on: June 05, 2008, 05:57:38 pm »
speaking of signability, how you guys feel about Lyles?

Do you mean in terms of reaching at 1a?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #353 on: June 05, 2008, 05:57:52 pm »
When you read the draft review you'll note at the bottom that I say to give drafts 5 years before evaluating.  Austin will need all 5 of those years before you know what he's got.  And he may still be a year or two from the majors then.

Or he could go to USC.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #354 on: June 05, 2008, 05:58:31 pm »
Signed. See above.
i thought you meant signed with south carolina.

Do you mean in terms of reaching at 1a?
just in terms of getting his signature on astros letterhead.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 06:00:06 pm by dirty steve »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #355 on: June 05, 2008, 06:00:23 pm »
I found this blurb on a USC site:


Jay Austin, OF, 6-1 180 (Atlanta, Ga./North Atlanta HS) -- Austin is rated by Perfect Game as the No. 17 outfielder nationally and No. 87 overall. He was named fastest baserunner and ranked No. 32 at the WWBA Fall Championship.

Kreuter on Austin: "He is extremely athletic and runs a 6.2 in the 60-yard dash, which makes him well above average with world class speed. He has a plus arm from the outfield and is a contact line drive hitter with occasional power. He definitely is a front-line college players who will make an immediate impact at both USC and in the Pac-10 Conference."

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #356 on: June 05, 2008, 06:02:12 pm »
I'd imagine Roger Kieschnick is related to Brooks?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #357 on: June 05, 2008, 06:02:29 pm »
Or he could go to USC.

Think he'll pass up at least $500,000?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #358 on: June 05, 2008, 06:03:47 pm »
Think he'll pass up at least $500,000?

Kids today...

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #359 on: June 05, 2008, 06:07:14 pm »
Another high school outfielder.. Charles Davidson

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #360 on: June 05, 2008, 06:07:33 pm »
And the pick is Charles Davidson, another GA high school outfielder

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #361 on: June 05, 2008, 06:08:20 pm »
all these youngins

dirty steve

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #362 on: June 05, 2008, 06:08:41 pm »
i dont know...kind of surprised they havent taken a close to major league rewady SP yet, but after guys like crow, there might not have been any.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #363 on: June 05, 2008, 06:09:42 pm »
Next pick 109

MLB experts seem at a loss to describe Astros picks

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #364 on: June 05, 2008, 06:12:20 pm »
And the pick is Charles Davidson, another GA high school outfielder

Broke ranks.  He's a corner of/1b.

ETA: Power bat.  12 homers in 70AB.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #365 on: June 05, 2008, 06:14:26 pm »
JimR lost his bet. Russell to to the Dojers at 93.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #366 on: June 05, 2008, 06:15:02 pm »
talking heads are saying russell should get in a time machine to last year.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #367 on: June 05, 2008, 06:15:27 pm »
JimR lost his bet. Russell to to the Dojers at 93.

3rd round.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #368 on: June 05, 2008, 06:16:40 pm »
surprised there's no scouting report on MLB for Russell

dirty steve

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #369 on: June 05, 2008, 06:17:47 pm »
3rd round.
has there been anybody that has fallen that the Astros could be looking at?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #370 on: June 05, 2008, 06:18:52 pm »
Kieschnick is Brooks' cuz

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #371 on: June 05, 2008, 06:19:53 pm »
seaton is still available

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #372 on: June 05, 2008, 06:21:15 pm »
seaton is still available

Signability.  Melville is still available too.  1 month ago he was looking at top 10.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #373 on: June 05, 2008, 06:27:01 pm »
Seaton, there he is.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #374 on: June 05, 2008, 06:27:08 pm »
Seaton!

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #375 on: June 05, 2008, 06:28:01 pm »
Seaton, there he is.

Third round comp pick.  If they don't sign him they won't get compensation next year.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #376 on: June 05, 2008, 06:28:18 pm »
Sign him Drayton

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #377 on: June 05, 2008, 06:32:29 pm »
Pick #122 is next then every 30 from there on (152, 182...).
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #378 on: June 05, 2008, 06:32:34 pm »
Second Baptist in the hizzy!

*does an awkward white man dance, sits down*

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #379 on: June 05, 2008, 06:34:08 pm »
His scouting video has him throwing off the mound at MMPUS.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #380 on: June 05, 2008, 06:35:33 pm »
another tall HS pitcher with a nice, easy motion.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #381 on: June 05, 2008, 06:37:28 pm »
Tim Melville goes to the Royals in the 4th (115th overall).

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #382 on: June 05, 2008, 06:39:59 pm »
hmm another center fielder in Thomas Steele

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #383 on: June 05, 2008, 06:40:33 pm »
hmm another center fielder in Thomas Steele

Re-draft.  The Astros took him out of high school a few years ago.

ETA: 2005 Round 22
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 06:43:25 pm by Jacksonian »
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #384 on: June 05, 2008, 06:41:20 pm »
let him go nuts, he doesn't know any more than the rest of the world how good these players will become.   That is dependent on the player's work ethic and makeup along with natural talent..

BP is good for comic relief, and that is all. never, ever read BP for baseball.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #385 on: June 05, 2008, 06:42:36 pm »
3rd round.

shit. i did not think he'd improve his round. oh, well. hook 'em, Kyle.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #386 on: June 05, 2008, 06:43:29 pm »
so, whats the word on Steele?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #387 on: June 05, 2008, 06:43:59 pm »
hmm another center fielder in Thomas Steele

Stats from the season:

.312, .393, .567, 10 homers, 24/26 SB

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #388 on: June 05, 2008, 06:45:12 pm »
BP is good for comic relief, and that is all. never, ever read BP for baseball.

I agree, I especially liked baseball america's contradicting scouting report on the astros 2nd round pick and what they had him ranked as a player...
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #389 on: June 05, 2008, 06:47:42 pm »
shit. i did not think he'd improve his round. oh, well. hook 'em, Kyle.

odd place for him to go, with loney at 1b, and guys like kemp and ethier in the OF.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #390 on: June 05, 2008, 06:51:52 pm »
Glad to see that Goldstein has already labelled the Astros as having the worst draft of anyone.  Makes me think of:

"It was a "Jump to Conclusions" mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor... and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO."

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #391 on: June 05, 2008, 06:55:33 pm »
Glad to see that Goldstein has already labelled the Astros as having the worst draft of anyone.  Makes me think of:

"It was a "Jump to Conclusions" mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor... and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO."

someone tell me who Goldstein is and what he has ever done in baseball other than write for Fantacrap Illustrated.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #392 on: June 05, 2008, 06:59:16 pm »
someone tell me who Goldstein is and what he has ever done in baseball other than write for Fantacrap Illustrated.

I'm guessing nothing.  I just find it humorous that this (self-titled?) expert is able to make this decision based on 5 picks in a 50-some odd round draft.  He's done nothing but bitch and moan about the Astros since Castro was announced.

Correction, six picks.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #393 on: June 05, 2008, 07:04:43 pm »
I'm guessing nothing.  I just find it humorous that this (self-titled?) expert is able to make this decision based on 5 picks in a 50-some odd round draft.  He's done nothing but bitch and moan about the Astros since Castro was announced.

Correction, six picks.

BP, year after year, goes after the Astros. add Ed Wade to the mix, and hoo boy, the perfect storm.
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cougar

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #394 on: June 05, 2008, 07:08:41 pm »
BP, year after year, goes after the Astros. add Ed Wade to the mix, and hoo boy, the perfect storm.

I will take your word for it.  I avoid BP.  The baseball draft is too hit or miss (yeah, all of them are but baseball seemingly moreso) to watch some mouth breather hyperventilate because someone didn't draft who he thought they should have, and gets a national platform to spew his idiocy.  It does have some entertainment value in a "what is he smoking/drinking/injecting?" kind of way, so that's really all I get out of it.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #395 on: June 05, 2008, 07:09:46 pm »
David Duncan, 6'9"(!!) 230 lb. lefty out of Georgia Tech.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #396 on: June 05, 2008, 07:12:57 pm »
David Duncan, 6'9"(!!) 230 lb. lefty out of Georgia Tech.

Stats this season:

15 GS, 7-3, 4.48 ERA, 96.1 IP, 99 H, 32 BB, 74 K

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #397 on: June 05, 2008, 07:14:41 pm »
tall pitchers scare me, they tend to have good stuff but they seem to rarely be able to maintain their mechanics on a constant bases.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #398 on: June 05, 2008, 07:24:02 pm »
Short pitchers on the other hand seem to break down faster...

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #399 on: June 05, 2008, 07:29:57 pm »
whats your meaning of short?

my meaning of tall is 6'6 and up

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #400 on: June 05, 2008, 07:40:10 pm »
Pick #182 is.....


Jack Shuck, 5'11", 185 lb. L/L CF from THE Ohio State Univeristy.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #401 on: June 05, 2008, 07:48:38 pm »
Pick #182 is.....


Jack Shuck, 5'11", 185 lb. L/L CF from THE Ohio State Univeristy.

Lots of CFers this draft. Definately sticking to the up the middle plan.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Seaton and Melville.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #402 on: June 05, 2008, 08:02:45 pm »
What's Goldstein's background?

Former goalie of the Mighty Ducks?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #403 on: June 05, 2008, 08:03:49 pm »
Former goalie of the Mighty Ducks?

It's sad that I (1) get that joke, and (2) chuckled at it.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #404 on: June 05, 2008, 08:19:19 pm »
According to Sam Khan Jr. (Chron-ic prep sports guy), Seaton says that being picked by the Astros is "a dream" and "he sounded genuinely excited at the idea of becoming an Astro."

Here's hoping.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #405 on: June 05, 2008, 08:41:27 pm »
Hey Duman.  Assuming Austin signs soon, the G-Stros pitchers should be very happy with Austin in center.

I imagine Duman will throw his input in on this anyway....but just thought i'd add in that the G-stros might actually have a tough decision in CF (at least this season) as Jay Austin will be joining a depth chart that includes multi sport athlete Devon Torrance.   It will be interesting to see how this plays out as they seem to project to be similar players.  Wonder what the new regime's take on Torrance going exclusively to football at some point is
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 08:55:23 pm by Hornstros »
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #406 on: June 05, 2008, 08:54:35 pm »
Pick #182 is.....


Jack Shuck, 5'11", 185 lb. L/L CF from THE Ohio State Univeristy.

Automatic nickname: Jack "Aw" Shuck

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #407 on: June 05, 2008, 08:55:30 pm »
I imagine Duman will throw his input in on this anyway....but just thought i'd add in that the G-stros might actually have a tough decision in CF (at least this season) as Jay Austin will be joining a depth chart that include multi sport athlete Devon Torrance.   It will be interesting to see how this plays out as they seem to project to be similar players

Good observation Hornstros.  I look forward to seeing them in the line up together.  I don't see many balls dropping between them.  Torrence may also be used as a DH some to continue his development hitting from the let side. 
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #408 on: June 05, 2008, 10:09:45 pm »
Automatic nickname: Jack "Aw" Shuck

Or Jack Corn Shuck

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #409 on: June 06, 2008, 12:46:52 am »
In the comments to Zach Levine's (Chron.com) draft blog, there was an interesting post from a guy named "Paul" (posted earlier under the moniker "iliveforthis") that claims to go to Stanford and watched Castro play.  LINK.  Obviously can't vouch for its 'authenticity,' but thought it was an decent read nonetheless.

Quote
I was a little surprised to see Castro picked so high, so the Astros might have reached a little bit, but don't worry this is a good pick. At first, I was a little disappointed that we passed on Smoak, Wallace, and some other pitching, but the drop off at catcher is huge after Castro.

I go to Stanford and have watched him play this year. He has been a monster in the middle of our lineup as a junior leading the team (now in the Super Regionals against Cal State Fullerton, so watch for results) in most hitting categories, only second in hrs and doubles. He is athletic with pretty good feet for a catcher. He has also played first base for us last year and a little bit this year. He is by far the best college catcher in the draft.

Obviously there are some intangibles that the scouts probably see in him. At Stanford, the baseball players take 20 units a quarter so they can graduate in 3 years and go pro. So for all those questioning his signibility, he will DEFINITELY sign as long as the Astros don't blow the negotiations. Also, he is a very hard working guy that will find a way to succeed at whatever level he is at. He does not undervalue the hard work aspect and that should be very valuable for his ascent through the minors to the majors. In his own words "Advice To Youngsters: There is no substitute for hard work." He is also left-handed with an above average arm and pretty good defensively. He has thrown out 27 of 68 runners this year with a .995 fielding clip. He is actually very good defensively at first base also. He also was an all star playing in the Cape Cod league last summer hitting .341 playing more at first base but some at catcher.

So what can we expect from our 10th pick? He should be a solid major league catcher. He is a safe pick. He will hit left-handed for average and has good contact at the major league level with some power potential. (that is a lot more then we can say about our current catchers...) He is also above average defensively with a good arm and can play catcher and first base (also had brief stints in the OF if needed). He will be a very hard worker and has a good athletic build. He is very signable and they shouldn't have to overpay for him. He is also very intelligent and should call a good game but I am not sure of any statistics to back that up.

All in all, I think this will be a better pick then most people are saying right now. Don't listen to ESPN analysis, what do they know? I wasn't a big fan of Mario Williams pick either, but now it doesn't look so bad does it?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 12:52:17 am by OregonStrosFan »
In the end, my dissolution with the game of baseball will not be a result of any loss of love for the game, rather from the realization that I can no longer bear the anger its supposed stewards cause to be built up in my soul. -Lee (01/08/2013)

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #410 on: June 06, 2008, 12:59:33 am »
Quote
Is Smoak a below average fielder?  I thought I read his hands were pretty good, and SC fans always spoke highly of his defense.

I had to do a double take when reading the bad defensive reviews here from our posters.   I'm pretty sure they were mixing up scouting reports with another slugger.  Everything I have seen from BA to ESPN,  South Carolina etc.. has Smoak as an easily above average fielding first baseman.    The idea that he would have to DH is silly.   Definite fast track concerns with Berkman at 1B, but he might have been a real valuable piece for the organization.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #411 on: June 06, 2008, 01:54:21 am »
um this is a day 1 observation that could be completely disregarded depending on what our GM n' company does. That said, what does this mean for Chris Johnson and Tommy Manzella? I think for right now, they should be pleased; maybe theres some faith in the idea the Chris may be our 3rd baseman of the future if he continues hitting as he has (his fielding isnt as crisp as it could be but hes been moved around a lot). Manzella is very good defensively and hes shown the ability to drive in runs and hit so far this season and even a little bit last season (though is he hurt or something?). After Tejada's contract is up, do you think he will be the one to replace him?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #412 on: June 06, 2008, 07:35:43 am »
Why Jordan Lyles was picked in the supplemental round:

Quote
“He’s been to several workouts. We went out to Houston last Sunday and he worked out at Minute Maid Park at the Astros’ stadium, and had a phenomenal workout,” Long said. “I think that opened their eyes even better than before.

“My phone has been ringing off the hook from other teams, telling me they can’t believe that,” (adviser) Long said. “... I had all of them believing they were the only ones on him.

“I think they (Houston) were looking to take him with the 56th pick in the second round, and they got concerned that maybe the Braves or somebody else would take him before then.”
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #413 on: June 06, 2008, 07:55:22 am »
Thanks for that link Duman.  Great work.

That explains the mystery of the pick and Wade describing him as a power arm.  The first reports I read were around mid to high eighties.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #414 on: June 06, 2008, 08:53:56 am »
I think Goldstein went to BP from BA. Probably doesn't make any difference, but it's an answer to Coach's question.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #415 on: June 06, 2008, 09:02:01 am »
BP, year after year, goes after the Astros. add Ed Wade to the mix, and hoo boy, the perfect storm.

To be fair, the Astros haven't really proved them wrong.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #416 on: June 06, 2008, 09:06:03 am »
LOVE the Seaton pick by the way, absolutely love it. Hope they sign him.

And Smoak will be a stud soon, book it.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #417 on: June 06, 2008, 09:25:31 am »
To be fair, the Astros haven't really proved them wrong.

To be fair, no one involved with this draft with the exception of Rickey Bennett, has ever been involved in an Astros draft.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #418 on: June 06, 2008, 09:36:39 am »
Increasing the fairness even more, the two men in charge of this draft were involved in drafting Cole Hamels, Chase Utley, Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun, Corey Hart, Pat Burrell, Ryan Howard... It's possible that joining the Astros organization has suddenly caused them to lose their skills, but I doubt it.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #419 on: June 06, 2008, 09:51:57 am »
To be fair, no one involved with this draft with the exception of Rickey Bennett, has ever been involved in an Astros draft.

Drayton probably has great influence on the picks.

This draft may turn out well; still, BP's ragging on the Astros seems to be justified by the results.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #420 on: June 06, 2008, 09:56:57 am »
To be fair, the Astros haven't really proved them wrong.

to be fair, WFW.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #421 on: June 06, 2008, 09:59:05 am »
Drayton probably has great influence on the picks.

This draft may turn out well; still, BP's ragging on the Astros seems to be justified by the results.


What *results* would that be?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #422 on: June 06, 2008, 09:59:39 am »
Drayton probably has great influence on the picks.

This draft may turn out well; still, BP's ragging on the Astros seems to be justified by the results.


why are you here, Clarkie? this kind of carping is not well received on this site. read more, post less is something you should consider. you may get more people after you than me if you do not stop what you are doing.

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« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 10:01:28 am by JimR »
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #423 on: June 06, 2008, 09:59:59 am »
I had to do a double take when reading the bad defensive reviews here from our posters.   I'm pretty sure they were mixing up scouting reports with another slugger.  Everything I have seen from BA to ESPN,  South Carolina etc.. has Smoak as an easily above average fielding first baseman.    The idea that he would have to DH is silly.   Definite fast track concerns with Berkman at 1B, but he might have been a real valuable piece for the organization.

Really, please share the "above average" reports... I'd like to see them.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/events/draft_report/y2008/index.jsp?mc=smoak

Quote
There are a number of top-notch college first basemen in this year's class and Smoak is right at the top of the list. That's because he's got a smooth and easy swing that generates plenty of power from both sides of the plate. This isn't college power; it will translate just fine to the pro game. He can't run and is limited to first base defensively, but there will be more than enough bat to make up for those shortcomings.

I think you misunderstand the point, clearly.  It's not that Smoak is a horrible player, he's not.  He's a great bat, no one can dispute that.  But he fell from the prognostications that BA and others made about him because he's technically one dimensional right now until he proves otherwise.  He's slow, he can basically only play one position adequately and if the game at the major league level is too fast for him defensively, he's going to be a great DH.

Houston does not have the luxury to limit themselves to one position and also the possibility of a DH in the making in the future.  It's really not that hard to understand.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 10:08:59 am by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #424 on: June 06, 2008, 10:05:18 am »
After listening to Heck on the radio yesterday, I believe the Astros drafted Castro for his bat and his makeup and they truly think he was the BPA at #10, position be damned. (he's played as much firstbase as he has catcher) Also, with the number of players drafted by the Astros yesterday from the Southeast, I would say they have a pretty good scouting presence there and I'm sure those scouts have seen Smoak play more than the nerds at BP, etc.

Last night I watched all the videos of the draft picks and Castro has a really, really sweet swing. IMO, he stood out compared to the others, his swing reminded me of Joe Mauer.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #425 on: June 06, 2008, 10:08:07 am »
Drayton probably has great influence on the picks.

This draft may turn out well; still, BP's ragging on the Astros seems to be justified by the results.


Drayton doesn't have anything to do with the draft other than approving the paycheck.  He is not making personnel decisions unless they involve MLB FAs.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #426 on: June 06, 2008, 10:08:26 am »
From BA:

As a first baseman, Smoak has Gold Glove-caliber actions and soft hands. His footwork and instincts around the bag are advanced and his arm strength is adequate.



That's by far the most positive opinion I've seen.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #427 on: June 06, 2008, 10:11:38 am »
After listening to Heck on the radio yesterday, I believe the Astros drafted Castro for his bat and his makeup and they truly think he was the BPA at #10, position be damned. (he's played as much firstbase as he has catcher) Also, with the number of players drafted by the Astros yesterday from the Southeast, I would say they have a pretty good scouting presence there and I'm sure those scouts have seen Smoak play more than the nerds at BP, etc.

Last night I watched all the videos of the draft picks and Castro has a really, really sweet swing. IMO, he stood out compared to the others, his swing reminded me of Joe Mauer.


I believe Houston went after athletes all day long.  Heck and Wade basically told everyone they had 8 points that they would rate a player on and one of them was 40 yard dash.  They want guys who do a lot more than just mash a baseball.  They want athletes because if you go after that, you have options in development.  It's their philosophy, their strategy and I would think we (the know-it-all fans) would damn well give Wade his due by now since most of *us* have been going around eating crow about Tejada, Valverde, et. al.

I guess we can't help ourselves sometimes.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #428 on: June 06, 2008, 10:13:24 am »
I believe Houston went after athletes all day long.  Heck and Wade basically told everyone they had 8 points that they would rate a player on and one of them was 40 yard dash.  They want guys who do a lot more than just mash a baseball.  They want athletes because if you go after that, you have options in development. 

Great observation.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #429 on: June 06, 2008, 10:13:43 am »
This draft may turn out well; still, BP's ragging on the Astros seems to be justified by the results.

BP was ragging on the Astros during back-to-back NLCS appearances.  Was that justified by the results?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #430 on: June 06, 2008, 10:14:44 am »
From BA:

As a first baseman, Smoak has Gold Glove-caliber actions and soft hands. His footwork and instincts around the bag are advanced and his arm strength is adequate.



That's by far the most positive opinion I've seen.

BA has been long criticized by Dave Rawnsley and others that they do not do shoeleather reporting.  They basically sit at a desk many miles away and go with limit resources to write their analysis.  They also look at stats... a lot.  How they got gold glove from a slow footed first baseman is beyond me, but then again I wonder about a lot of things, including what the hell I say most of the time.

Time will tell on Smoak defensively, but it definitely is about the kid being a very refined hitter and possibly the next Chipper Jones (as a cieling).  Some fans and even some media only care about hitting and that is what causes much of the vitrol.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #431 on: June 06, 2008, 10:17:33 am »
BP was ragging on the Astros during back-to-back NLCS appearances.  Was that justified by the results?

Was it BP who one time said that the Astros would fail to win the NL Central and that the Pittsburgh Pirates would come out on top.  At the end of the season, Houston won the NL Central and Pittsburgh was the bottom dweller yet again for the umpteeth time.

From what I remember the guy who wrote that at BP was really arrogant in defending his choice early on and then went denial on everything even though some produced the words he wrote to shove down his throat.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #432 on: June 06, 2008, 10:19:44 am »
From BA:

As a first baseman, Smoak has Gold Glove-caliber actions and soft hands. His footwork and instincts
around the bag are advanced and his arm strength is adequate.



That's by far the most positive opinion I've seen.

Oh, one more thing: Smoak is limited to first base, that's his ceiling.  If he doesn't meet expectation, you can't move him to left field and say "we will hide him there".  So the next drop for him from first base is... DH.  I'll say it again for those who have not been listening: Houston does not employ the DH as a backup plan in case a young man can't cut it in the majors as a fielder.  One thing every major league player will tell you if you listen is this: the game is really fast in the majors, much quicker than it is in any other level of baseball and especially in college.  Think Jack Cust and Arizona.

From MinorLeagueBaseball.com:

Justin Smoak:

Hitting Ability:  Smoak has a real and easy swing and gets coverage through the entire hitting area.

Power: He's got plus power now and in the future, from both sides of the plate. He could be a 35-40 homer guy at the big-league level.

Running Speed: He's below average, with heavy legs. He's a bit stiff and knock-kneed.

Base running: Thanks to some good instincts, he's not quite a base clogger.

Arm Strength: He's got an average arm, but it's good enough for first base. (first indication he's average as a defender)

Fielding: He's not bad around the base with good hands. (i.e. If it's hit to him, he'll catch it.  If it's a ball thrown to him, he'll catch it.  Doesn't really scream "gold glove" to me though.  In fact, saying "he's not bad" is really a back handed compliment, meaning he's not really great either.)

Range: The lack of footspeed and heavy lower half provide very limited range. (you know, typically a gold glove first baseman needs a little bit of range, aka Derek Lee type... slow footed, heavy lower half is talking about a Ortiz like player around first, who was definitely a first baseman in Minnesota but is now a DH in Boston.)

Physical Description: Smoak has a large frame with a thick lower half. His upper body is pretty loose and moves easily.

Medical Update: Healthy.

Strengths: The bat, both for average and power, from both sides of the plate.  (I'm sorry, I'm looking hard for the talk about his gold glove defense here under *strengths* and I just can't seem to find it... anybody want to help me out?)

Weaknesses: Below-average speed and he's limited defensively to first base. (Nevermind, I found his defense her under *weakness*.  Limited to first base is what we've been saying, this *IS* his ceiling, you can't move him to left field or somewhere else so he's either a first baseman if he develops or maybe like Ortiz he eventually moves to DH).

Summary: There are a number of top-notch college first basemen in this year's class and Smoak is right at the top of the list. That's because he's got a smooth and easy swing that generates plenty of power from both sides of the plate. This isn't college power; it will translate just fine to the pro game. He can't run and is limited to first base defensively, but there will be more than enough bat to make up for those shortcomings. (excuse me, did he say *shortcomings*?  WOW!)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 11:03:32 am by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #433 on: June 06, 2008, 10:19:52 am »
BA has been long criticized by Dave Rawnsley and others that they do not do shoeleather reporting.  They basically sit at a desk many miles away and go with limit resources to write their analysis.  They also look at stats... a lot.  How they got gold glove from a slow footed first baseman is beyond me, but then again I wonder about a lot of things, including what the hell I say most of the time.

Time will tell on Smoak defensively, but it definitely is about the kid being a very refined hitter and possibly the next Chipper Jones (as a cieling).  Some fans and even some media only care about hitting and that is what causes much of the vitrol.

BA is much the same, unless they have changed very recently. they do not see players, you know, play.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #434 on: June 06, 2008, 10:22:08 am »
No one fucking knows whose draft will be good or not, not even knowledgable baseball men.  All this criticism is unfounded, especially for later picks.  As stated above, a person's track record is the only sensible basis to "assume" anything about what the Astros have picked.  Therefore, I will be hopeful.  Might as well be.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #435 on: June 06, 2008, 10:27:41 am »
For your viewing and listening pleasure....it looks like JdJO actual did some valuable reporting interviewing Bobby Heck on the players drafted yesterday.  JdJO as always sounds like a 12 year old, however Heck gives some insight actually confirming the Best Player Available approach which was harped on in this thread all of yesterday

http://blogs.chron.com/baseballblog/archives/2008/06/heck_gives_scou.html
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #436 on: June 06, 2008, 10:33:37 am »
Increasing the fairness even more, the two men in charge of this draft were involved in drafting Cole Hamels, Chase Utley, Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun, Corey Hart, Pat Burrell, Ryan Howard... It's possible that joining the Astros organization has suddenly caused them to lose their skills, but I doubt it.

Good read on Ed Wades draft success written to deal with people who say the Phillies never have any talent to trade in their farm system.

Quote
Twenty-three players the Phillies drafted have appeared in major league games this season. Eight of them have been All-Stars. Two have been MVPs. Two have been named Rookie of the Year. Two have combined to win eight Gold Gloves. Nearly all have been significant contributors.....
Only Seattle has had as many active players it drafted make an All-Star team.....

They have had this type of success and have pretty much followed MLB slot recommendations on players as well.

Quote
From 2003-07, the Phillies have paid just $14 million in bonuses to draft picks, according to Baseball America. That ranks second from the bottom among all major league teams. Only the Astros ($11.4 million) are lower.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #437 on: June 06, 2008, 10:40:24 am »
Back to the picks:

7th round, pick #212

Jonathon Gaston (L/R) RF U of Arizona (JR.) 6' 200lbs
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #438 on: June 06, 2008, 10:44:36 am »
BA is much the same, unless they have changed very recently. they do not see players, you know, play.

And if people read them long enough, they should know this right away.  BA provides excellent statistical analysis and if you want to read that, then think only upper minor leagues when it's no longer about development and more about performance.  Know what the different levels are about to understand what you're looking at in terms of reports.  I'll give a very good example:

Jason Hirsh.

BA looked at his A Ball numbers one season and declared him an all out bust.  There was no way to dissuade BA from saying that too because the numbers proved it to them.  IN A BALL!  I remember that year too because Jacksonian and I were floored by the stubborn attitude BA took on Hirsh.  I'm going to let a little secret out here: Hirsh was livid too with BA.  See, here is the deal.  That season, the Astros asked Hirsh to shelve the fastball and slider and work on his changeup all season long.  In the long run, it would help his development if he masters that pitch.  So he did and his strikeout numbers went significantly down and sent all sorts of bells and whistles ringing at BA.  So Sickels lead the charge and out and all pronounce Hirsh a bust because his strikeout numbers were appalling and had dropped significantly to *tell him that this guy would amount to nothing*.

Next year in AA, Hirsh had command of his changeup and was dominating the Texas League and then AAA he was the best pitcher in the PCL.  Soon he was up to the majors two years removed from the day Sickels and BA called him a *bust*.

And they never bothered to go watch Hirsh pitch nor pick up the phone and call someone to find out.  "Oops"... yeah, right.  Again, too much of a reliance on performance stats and that is never a good thing when it deals with development.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #439 on: June 06, 2008, 10:45:50 am »
8th Round pick 242

LHP from Lake Travis HS in Tx

Brad Dydalewicz 6' 1" 180
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #440 on: June 06, 2008, 10:46:23 am »
Great observation.

You look up and down the picks and everyone can run, they field pretty well, hit decent enough, have nice size and overall are athletes and not just one dimensional players.  If anyone complains about Max Sapp, then you're looking at just the opposite in terms of drafting philosophy here with Heck and Wade.  Why aren't fans happy?  I dunno the answer and I doubt anyone knows for sure.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 10:49:02 am by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #441 on: June 06, 2008, 10:48:13 am »
Despite the emphasis on up the middle players the Astros have yet to take a SS or 2B.  2 corner outfielders, several CF's and pitchers, and of course 1 catcher.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #442 on: June 06, 2008, 10:48:54 am »
And if people read them long enough, they should know this right away.  BA provides excellent statistical analysis and if you want to read that, then think only upper minor leagues when it's no longer about development and more about performance.  Know what the different levels are about to understand what you're looking at in terms of reports.  I'll give a very good example:

Jason Hirsh.

BA looked at his A Ball numbers one season and declared him an all out bust.  There was no way to dissuade BA from saying that too because the numbers proved it to them.  IN A BALL!  I remember that year too because Jacksonian and I were floored by the stubborn attitude BA took on Hirsh.  I'm going to let a little secret out here: Hirsh was livid too with BA.  See, here is the deal.  That season, the Astros asked Hirsh to shelve the fastball and slider and work on his changeup all season long.  In the long run, it would help his development if he masters that pitch.  So he did and his strikeout numbers went significantly down and sent all sorts of bells and whistles ringing at BA.  So Sickels lead the charge and out and all pronounce Hirsh a bust because his strikeout numbers were appalling and had dropped significantly to *tell him that this guy would amount to nothing*.

Next year in AA, Hirsh had command of his changeup and was dominating the Texas League and then AAA he was the best pitcher in the PCL.  Soon he was up to the majors two years removed from the day Sickels and BA called him a *bust*.

And they never bothered to go watch Hirsh pitch nor pick up the phone and call someone to find out.  "Oops"... yeah, right.  Again, too much of a reliance on performance stats and that is never a good thing when it deals with development.

my best example is from my one year of working with Capps--Chen Feng Chin (i think that's right). based on his A ball numbers, BA had him the #1 prospect in the Dodgers org. THE MAN COULD NOT HIT A FB! AA pitchers knocked the bat out of his hands all year long. i expressed my amazement to Mike, and he patiently explained to me that those stat books are numbers-only tomes. they may never see the players they write about actually play.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #443 on: June 06, 2008, 10:49:36 am »
Back to the picks:

7th round, pick #212

Jonathon Gaston (L/R) RF U of Arizona (JR.) 6' 200lbs

Dude's got a canon. In his video it looks like he has a wider stance with 2 strikes. Good approach.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #444 on: June 06, 2008, 10:50:58 am »
Despite the emphasis on up the middle players the Astros have yet to take a SS or 2B.  2 corner outfielders, several CF's and pitchers, and of course 1 catcher.

You can convert guys to 2nd base from a pool of athletes you draft.  If they have the accumen to learn proper footwork, they can master the position.  Shortstop?  That may be thin in this draft so maybe they think they can find some good ones at the Academies.  I dunno for sure, but catcher and shortstop in the Academy is a good place to go look.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 10:52:31 am by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #445 on: June 06, 2008, 10:51:01 am »
You look up and down the picks and everyone can run, they field pretty well, hit decent enough, have nice size and overall are athletes and not just one dimensional players.  If anyone complains about Max Sapp, then you're looking at just the opposite in terms of drafting philosophy here with Heck and Wade.  Why aren't fans happy?  I dunno the answer and I doubt anyone knows for sure.

because bitching and complaining is what folks do who are smarter than the professionals. that includes almost everybody.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #446 on: June 06, 2008, 10:54:10 am »
i expressed my amazement to Mike, and he patiently explained to me that those stat books are numbers-only tomes. they may never see the players they write about actually play.

Eggszactly.  Great example.  If you read BA, please know what they're saying because it's a good source for statistical analysis but it's not scouting.  And they never claim to be scouts either, that's not what they set themselves up to be for anyone.  They crunch numbers for you and hope you understand that when they say something, it's stats they base it on.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #447 on: June 06, 2008, 10:54:49 am »
9th round / pick # 272

Luis Cruz LHP
Academia Santa Montica, San Juan P. R.
5' 9" 170
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #448 on: June 06, 2008, 10:55:31 am »
It's kind of funny, here we're criticizing BA for over-analyzing stats... while amongst college baseball fans, BA gets reamed for ignoring stats or production in favor of tools in evaluating players and ultimately teams.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #449 on: June 06, 2008, 10:57:01 am »
You can convert guys to 2nd base from a pool of athletes you draft.  If they have the accumen to learn proper footwork, they can master the position.  Shortstop?  That may be thin in this draft so maybe they think they can find some good ones at the Academies.  I dunno for sure, but catcher and shortstop in the Academy is a good place to go look.

I understand that about 2B.  SS is likely very thin in the draft.  There are a few guys from the academies that should be at the short season clubs.  Duman is probably more versed on them than I though.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #450 on: June 06, 2008, 10:57:28 am »
9th round / pick # 272

Luis Cruz LHP
Academia Santa Montica, San Juan P. R.
5' 9" 170

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #451 on: June 06, 2008, 11:00:14 am »
Video shows FB 88-91
Curve 70-74

High leg kick

He winds up his little body for each pitch.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #452 on: June 06, 2008, 11:02:13 am »
from the video on cruz, he has a nice curveball. caught him buckling knees.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #453 on: June 06, 2008, 11:03:42 am »
another lefty, jarred holloway

no video on him.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #454 on: June 06, 2008, 11:04:10 am »
Round 10 / Pick #302

Jarred Holloway LHP
St. Petersburg JC
6' 3 230 lbs

Bunch of Lefty pitchers and bats being drafted.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #455 on: June 06, 2008, 11:05:05 am »
It's kind of funny, here we're criticizing BA for over-analyzing stats... while amongst college baseball fans, BA gets reamed for ignoring stats or production in favor of tools in evaluating players and ultimately teams.

Because colleges do not use wood bats, but then again, you knew this... right?  But I'll say it again, BA is not scouts, it's a bunch of guys who have watched baseball and make their own judgements when they do watch video.  But they need to talk to scouts more and that is something they don't do much of at all.  They'd rather provide what they do best (which is not unwelcomed, it's really great stuff if you *know* what you're looking at): performance statical analysis.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 11:07:00 am by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #456 on: June 06, 2008, 11:07:38 am »
6 pitchers through 10 rounds (12 picks).  Only 1 over the age of 20 with 1 turning 20 in late August.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #457 on: June 06, 2008, 11:09:04 am »
I understand that about 2B.  SS is likely very thin in the draft.  There are a few guys from the academies that should be at the short season clubs.  Duman is probably more versed on them than I though.

Last year's crop from the Academies did not yield what they needed to make up for the lack of signings from the draft, so this is sometimes tricky.  I'm sure the draft represents what they think they can both sign and also reasonably fill in to the needs in the farm.  The rest is definitely going to have to come from the Academies.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #458 on: June 06, 2008, 11:10:42 am »
Round 10 / Pick #302

Jarred Holloway LHP
St. Petersburg JC
6' 3 230 lbs

Bunch of Lefty pitchers and bats being drafted.

I noticed that about the bats last night.  Almost all of the first rounders hit left handed. I think "Remington" Steele was the only right handed bat I could see.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 11:12:28 am by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #459 on: June 06, 2008, 11:14:12 am »
Round 11 /pick 332

Jacob Priday RF (audio had LF)
U. Missouri Columbia
SR. 6' 01" no weight listed
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #460 on: June 06, 2008, 11:16:27 am »
well, looks like Priday has power to both sides of the field.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #461 on: June 06, 2008, 11:17:08 am »
Round 11 /pick 332

Jacob Priday RF (audio had LF)
U. Missouri Columbia
SR. 6' 01" no weight listed


Very few of the draft picks are under 6 feet.  What a change from the previous regime.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #462 on: June 06, 2008, 11:19:43 am »
Because colleges do not use wood bats, but then again, you knew this... right?  But I'll say it again, BA is not scouts, it's a bunch of guys who have watched baseball and make their own judgements when they do watch video.  But they need to talk to scouts more and that is something they don't do much of at all.  They'd rather provide what they do best (which is not unwelcomed, it's really great stuff if you *know* what you're looking at): performance statical analysis.

Yes, I'm aware college players use metal bats outside of the wood-bat summer leagues, and yes you're starting to repeat yourself.

I'm not a huge fan of BA, but in their defense they do a lot more than just statistical analysis.  They're at their best when they serve as a conduit between the opinions of coaches/scouting directors and a public eager to hear about the next generation baseball has to offer.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #463 on: June 06, 2008, 11:21:42 am »
well, looks like Priday has power to both sides of the field.

Loved his timed home run trots to first
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #464 on: June 06, 2008, 11:22:15 am »
Most of the collegians at this part of the draft and being picked mainly to help fill out the Tri City roster.  IIRC, Tri-City won't have much in the way of position players moving up from Greeneville, esp outfield.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #465 on: June 06, 2008, 11:23:15 am »
Figuring out who will make the transition to wooden bats is probably the hardest job scouts looking at college players have.  There are guys who hit .400 in college, but struggle to hit .270 in the minors.  It's not always something simple like lack of commitment or poor work ethic either.  Then you have the other extremes.  Some players barely hit over .300 and take off in the minors and pros.  It's mind bending.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #466 on: June 06, 2008, 11:23:44 am »
Round 12 / Pick 362

Here is our first middle infielder
Jeff Hulett SS
Okaloosa Walton CC (FLA)
6' 185
Son of Tim Hulett
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #467 on: June 06, 2008, 11:23:58 am »
Priday is a name I think most Longhorn fans are familiar with, this year...

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #468 on: June 06, 2008, 11:24:21 am »
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #469 on: June 06, 2008, 11:24:27 am »
Loved his timed home run trots to first

lol yeah.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #470 on: June 06, 2008, 11:25:41 am »
Any one else listening to the Audio?  Is Tommy Lasorda calling the Dodgers picks out?  They just drafted Robin Yount's kid.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #471 on: June 06, 2008, 11:26:16 am »
Any one else listening to the Audio?  Is Tommy Lasorda calling the Dodgers picks out?  They just drafted Robin Yount's kid.

He usually does.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #472 on: June 06, 2008, 11:27:08 am »
Priday is a name I think most Longhorn fans are familiar with, this year...

Yeah, I had to look it up.  How many did he hit?  Four in one game!!!!

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #473 on: June 06, 2008, 11:28:55 am »
It would be quicker to count the at bats when he didn't homer.
Crazy Joe McCluskey was fucking nuts.  It's why they called him Crazy Joe.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #474 on: June 06, 2008, 11:35:42 am »
Yeah, I had to look it up.  How many did he hit?  Four in one game!!!!

4/4 3 hrs and a single.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #475 on: June 06, 2008, 11:55:11 am »
Pick 392

Kyle Godfrey   RHP  R/R

6'4" 200 
Hiwassee Jr College

Scouting Video


Pick 422

Christopher Hicks  RHP  R/R

6'4" 205
Georgia Tech

Scouting Video

Pick 452

Phil Disher  1B  R/R

6'2"  215
U of S Carolina, Columbia
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 11:58:02 am by JaneDoe »
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #476 on: June 06, 2008, 12:01:08 pm »
Yes, I'm aware college players use metal bats outside of the wood-bat summer leagues, and yes you're starting to repeat yourself.

Cool, I'll put you back on ignore now.  Thanks.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #477 on: June 06, 2008, 12:08:43 pm »
Drayton doesn't have anything to do with the draft other than approving the paycheck.  He is not making personnel decisions unless they involve MLB FAs.

Paycheck is one of the most important factors that go into drafting, right?
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #478 on: June 06, 2008, 12:10:08 pm »
BP was ragging on the Astros during back-to-back NLCS appearances.  Was that justified by the results?

I'm talking about drafting and the state of the farm system. BP is definitely wrong all the time, I'm just saying that with respect to the draft, they have been justified in their criticism
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #479 on: June 06, 2008, 12:12:04 pm »
Paycheck is one of the most important factors that go into drafting, right?

Depends on the size of the paycheck being asked.  Several high school Boras clients, top 100 or so pitchers, have yet to be drafted.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #480 on: June 06, 2008, 12:13:35 pm »
why are you here, Clarkie? this kind of carping is not well received on this site. read more, post less is something you should consider. you may get more people after you than me if you do not stop what you are doing.

friendly advice: STFU for awhile.

I've read your ridiculous posts for awhile, and I'm not "carping". There is a healthy middle ground between a ridiculous homer and a doom and gloom radio caller. Maybe you should find some other venue to anonymously chew people out for no reason.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #481 on: June 06, 2008, 12:14:41 pm »
I'm talking about drafting and the state of the farm system. BP is definitely wrong all the time, I'm just saying that with respect to the draft, they have been justified in their criticism

They use hindsight.  They don't analyze rationale.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #482 on: June 06, 2008, 12:14:51 pm »
Depends on the size of the paycheck being asked.  Several high school Boras clients, top 100 or so pitchers, have yet to be drafted.

Good point. Man I think the system is really screwed up. There needs to be some kind of a change, whether its locked in bonus ranges or an overall draft fund cap or SOMETHING.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #483 on: June 06, 2008, 12:15:40 pm »
They use hindsight.  They don't analyze rationale.

Agreed. Hope Wade etc. can shut them up for awhile.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #484 on: June 06, 2008, 12:17:59 pm »
Houston does not have the luxury to limit themselves to one position and also the possibility of a DH in the making in the future.  It's really not that hard to understand.

So do you think if Berkman wasn't here they would have still passed on Smoak? I don't think they would have, but that's obviously unsupported opinion. Point being, I think it has everything to do with current ML roster makeup and not as much what you are talking about. BUT, i get what you are saying.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #485 on: June 06, 2008, 12:19:12 pm »
Pick 482

Joshua Poytress LHP

6'1"
Fowler HS (CA)

Scouting video
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #486 on: June 06, 2008, 12:20:16 pm »
I'm talking about drafting and the state of the farm system. BP is definitely wrong all the time, I'm just saying that with respect to the draft, they have been justified in their criticism

What exactly did they say that is justifiable?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #487 on: June 06, 2008, 12:20:51 pm »
Paycheck is one of the most important factors that go into drafting, right?

"Yes!" - Scott Boras

"NO!" - MLBPA

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #488 on: June 06, 2008, 12:23:34 pm »
Good point. Man I think the system is really screwed up. There needs to be some kind of a change, whether its locked in bonus ranges or an overall draft fund cap or SOMETHING.

Why do you think the system is screwed up?  You do know about the most powerful sports union around called the MLBPA, right?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #489 on: June 06, 2008, 12:26:18 pm »
So do you think if Berkman wasn't here they would have still passed on Smoak?

Berkman is not the issue, Bobby Heck and Ed Wade are.  Do you think if Heck and Wade were not there, they'd still pass on Smoak?

Quote
I don't think they would have, but that's obviously unsupported opinion. Point being, I think it has everything to do with current ML roster makeup and not as much what you are talking about. BUT, i get what you are saying.

I don't think you do unless you recognize who is drafting, what is said in terms of what they're looking for and why they went after who they went after.  Are they lying to you?  Do you understand what they said?  Are you dissatisfied that they decided on a plan and strategy and are implementing it?

Are you not entertained?!?!

I would suggest you stop reading here or some National media or BA-type of group that is not connected to the source of the Astros thinking, go directly to reading what Heck is saying then come back here and stop thinking about things in such a superficial way and get some information behind your thinking.  It will help you very much.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 12:29:33 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #490 on: June 06, 2008, 12:30:13 pm »
So do you think if Berkman wasn't here they would have still passed on Smoak? I don't think they would have, but that's obviously unsupported opinion. Point being, I think it has everything to do with current ML roster makeup and not as much what you are talking about. BUT, i get what you are saying.

In spite of everything Heck and Wade have said about adding talent to the minor league system?  Drafting best available, even if it doesn't fill a need they'll have players to trade, their 8 point evaluation system?  Still you think it was about the major league team?  Noe isn't "saying" (coming up with this off the top of his head) he's repeating and synthesizing what he has read and heard from the team.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #491 on: June 06, 2008, 12:34:00 pm »
What exactly did they say that is justifiable?

All of their bitching about Astros drafts. Off the top of my head, one example is they wondered why the Stros passed on Conger to take Sapp a couple years ago.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #492 on: June 06, 2008, 12:38:35 pm »
All of their bitching about Astros drafts. Off the top of my head, one example is they wondered why the Stros passed on Conger to take Sapp a couple years ago.

Because Purpura and company decided that Sapp would translate well with his left handed power swing.  No one believed he would turn into the Stay Puff Marshmellow man, but he did.  But why do you take the word of a National publication over the word of the very people who run this organization and are willing to share information?

I'm trying to get to where you come from: Do you believe that the National media is going to tell you the truth whereas the local organization is trying to blow smoke up your ass?  Basically, it's a tried and true method used by the media around here... don't believe the source, believe some disenfranchised National source for some damn reason.  I think people can do better for themselves by being a bit less skeptical and understand what it is they're reading on all fronts.

Should I provide a primer on what "projectability" and "development" mean to how drafting works in the MLB?

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #493 on: June 06, 2008, 12:40:06 pm »
In spite of everything Heck and Wade have said about adding talent to the minor league system?  Drafting best available, even if it doesn't fill a need they'll have players to trade, their 8 point evaluation system?  Still you think it was about the major league team?  Noe isn't "saying" (coming up with this off the top of his head) he's repeating and synthesizing what he has read and heard from the team.

You have to either believe them or think they're a bunch of liars and Baseball America will save me!  You have to go a very long way to get that cynical if you ask me.

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #494 on: June 06, 2008, 12:42:29 pm »
All of their bitching about Astros drafts. Off the top of my head, one example is they wondered why the Stros passed on Conger to take Sapp a couple years ago.

That probably the one pick, the one, off the top of my head (and in all non-modesty I got this shit down) they can point to though not by much.  Purpura's rationale was Sapp had better power, and he was targeting lefty hitters.  Sapp at that time was considered just below Conger as I recall by scout opinion.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #495 on: June 06, 2008, 12:42:53 pm »
Berkman is not the issue, Bobby Heck and Ed Wade are.  Do you think if Heck and Wade were not there, they'd still pass on Smoak?

I don't think you do unless you recognize who is drafting, what is said in terms of what they're looking for and why they went after who they went after.  Are they lying to you?  Do you understand what they said?  Are you dissatisfied that they decided on a plan and strategy and are implementing it?

I read and understand what they said.

I also think that its unreasonable to believe that a discussion of Berkman being locked in at first did not come up when discussing Smoak. Even if they were discussing his defensive weaknesses, like you were talking about earlier, Berkman would seemingly be tied to that right? He can only play first and DH, well that doesn't work because we don't have a DH and first is taken. No?

Anyway I'm disengaging here, I don't think there is much further to debate. I don't like the pick, hope it works out for the best. By the way, I would bet good money that Seaton turns out to be the best of this crop.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #496 on: June 06, 2008, 12:43:17 pm »
Because Purpura and company decided that Sapp would translate well with his left handed power swing.  No one believed he would turn into the Stay Puff Marshmellow man, but he did.  But why do you take the word of a National publication over the word of the very people who run this organization and are willing to share information?

I'm trying to get to where you come from: Do you believe that the National media is going to tell you the truth whereas the local organization is trying to blow smoke up your ass?  Basically, it's a tried and true method used by the media around here... don't believe the source, believe some disenfranchised National source for some damn reason.  I think people can do better for themselves by being a bit less skeptical and understand what it is they're reading on all fronts.

Should I provide a primer on what "projectability" and "development" mean to how drafting works in the MLB?

Or not.  Each to his own I suppose.  But you have to ask the basic question, what are we trying to understand, the Astros' draft strategy or BPs? 

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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #497 on: June 06, 2008, 12:44:38 pm »
Back to Lyles:

“We had an idea he’d go second or third round, but he went higher than that,” Lee said. “He went down to Houston to work out for the Astros and he did pretty well there. He struck out four or five batters, and his velocity was getting up higher than they’d seen before.

“It got up to about 93 miles per hour, and they kind of bumped him up on their board a little.


If you can't see why they had to grab him in the compensatory round, this explains it.    93 mph, a 3 sport star(good athlete) and has good command of a fastball, change and curve.   Also noted he has a cutter.    

Honestly, if he this workout info had leaked out, he may have been a 1st round pick....that's an impressive package for a high school arm...
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #498 on: June 06, 2008, 12:45:05 pm »
Because Purpura and company decided that Sapp would translate well with his left handed power swing.  No one believed he would turn into the Stay Puff Marshmellow man, but he did.  But why do you take the word of a National publication over the word of the very people who run this organization and are willing to share information?

I'm trying to get to where you come from: Do you believe that the National media is going to tell you the truth whereas the local organization is trying to blow smoke up your ass?  Basically, it's a tried and true method used by the media around here... don't believe the source, believe some disenfranchised National source for some damn reason.  I think people can do better for themselves by being a bit less skeptical and understand what it is they're reading on all fronts.

Should I provide a primer on what "projectability" and "development" mean to how drafting works in the MLB?

Good lord I'm not even a big fan of BP. I don't subscribe, but I do read some free articles and scan their books. All I was trying to say is that people were calling BP out for always dishing on the Astros, but they haven't really been proved wrong. The stros farm system and draft history has been terrible recently.
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Re: 2008 Draft Thread
« Reply #499 on: June 06, 2008, 12:46:00 pm »
I read and understand what they said.

I also think that its unreasonable to believe that a discussion of Berkman being locked in at first did not come up when discussing Smoak. Even if they were discussing his defensive weaknesses, like you were talking about earlier, Berkman would seemingly be tied to that right? He can only play first and DH, well that doesn't work because we don't have a DH and first is taken. No?

Doubtful.  The Astros specifically said that some of the players they select could be used in trades.