2007 Draft Thread

[Jacksonian]

25 or so hours until the draft.  Draft starts at 1pm.  Teams get a max of 5 minutes for each pick in the first round. May not get to the Astros first pick until 3:30 or later, likely later.  ESPN2 will carry the first day until 5pm.  They will definitely show all the first round picks.  After that they'll do as they please.  Wouldn't surprise me if they showed Enos Cabell waiting around as the Astros will be the last team to actually pick a player.  Mlb.com should be as comprehensive as ever.

[Mike S]

Astros.com is implying that due to Houston's first pick coming so late in the draft (as Jackonsian noted) the organization may very well target players who would normally be first or second rounders, but have presumably fallen because of signability concerns:

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070530&content_id=1994381&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[JSAstrosFan]

Astros.com is implying that due to Houston's first pick coming so late in the draft (as Jackonsian noted) the organization may very well target players who would normally be first or second rounders, but have presumably fallen because of signability concerns:

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070530&content_id=1994381&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Cabrera

[Froback]

I have heard people speculate that Houston would use the money not being spent on the earlier picks (that they don't have) to potentially target players who slip due to signing concerns.  The idea being that they would be more willing to spend a bit more due to not having the "higher money slot" type picks.

The problem is that Drayton has a long history of "playing nice" with the slot money number cause he is buddy-buddy with MLB execs, and doesn't want to be "part of the problem" with draft slots getting out of hand money wise.

So I think that theory has alot of holes in it.  I am always anxious to see what nuggets they do turn up though, after all Pence was a 2nd round pick in a year they didn't have a 1st and had to wait a bit... although this year has close to record numbers of sandwich picks.

I for one am severly irritated that they have expanded the time window for picks.  Since trading cannot occur by rule, it is only done to allow TV people to have 5 mins to blow smoke and look like they know something, or basically wasting our time.

It has been in years past a challenge sometimes just to find a stat sheet on a player before the next time your team picks again.  Heck they would run through 50 round in 2 days, I bet now it will take either 2 really long days or 3 to get it done.

[Duman]

The problem is that Drayton has a long history of "playing nice" with the slot money number cause he is buddy-buddy with MLB execs, and doesn't want to be "part of the problem" with draft slots getting out of hand money wise.

Barthmaier 13th round $750,000
Patton 9th round pick $550,000

That is two examples of not going slot money if the player has talent for the $ they want to pay for him.  Both had dropped because of signability concerns.  Barthmaier has signed to play Football at LSU and Patton to pitch for the Horns.

[Mike S]

Of course, there's also Drew Stubbs.  Not saying McLane is decidedly one way or another with respect to slot money, but there examples on either side.

That said, I hope that the Astros do target players who fall because of signability concerns.  As I understand it, this isn't an especially deep draft.  With the team picking so late, I'd think they'd have to go that route, especially considering the system isn't deep in quality prospects.

[Mike S]

Cabrera

Good point.  Just wanted to get things going here.

[Jacksonian]

That said, I hope that the Astros do target players who fall because of signability concerns. 

They do it every year.  They don't always sign them, but they do draft them.  Nathan Karns last year.  Jordan Meaker in 05.  Patton in 04.  Stubbs, Davis, and Barthmaier in 03....  That's just off the top of my head.

Rounds 9 and 10 is when they usually do it.  This year they'll likely do it earlier, maybe at 6 like Davis or even 3 like Stubbs.  Just don't expect any of them to be Boras clients/advisees.

[Jacksonian]

Good point.  Just wanted to get things going here.

Figured as much and glad someone jumped in first.

[Duman]

The Astros had an offer on the table but MLB put pressure on them to reduce the offer.  Since he is now a prospect for a competitor in the same division, I would be surprised if they back off due to MLB pressure.  Seeing as how they signed a much drafted prospect for not much less money, I would say things might have changed.

A native of Atlanta, Texas, Stubbs had agreed to receive $900,000 from his home-state Astros in 2003. Considered an abnormally high bonus for a third-round pick, Major League Baseball pressured the club to lower the amount and the club's offer was eventually rescinded.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060606&content_id=1491219&vkey=draft2006&fext=.jsp

[Mike S]

Not disagreeing with you at all.  Thought it deserved a mention while we were touching on the subject.

[Mike S]

They do it every year.  They don't always sign them, but they do draft them.  Nathan Karns last year.  Jordan Meaker in 05.  Patton in 04.  Stubbs, Davis, and Barthmaier in 03....  That's just off the top of my head.

Rounds 9 and 10 is when they usually do it.  This year they'll likely do it earlier, maybe at 6 like Davis or even 3 like Stubbs.  Just don't expect any of them to be Boras clients/advisees.

Karns was one of the guys last year I was really hoping they'd sign.  Maybe with the dearth of early round picks this time around, they'll have more freedom and flexibility to sign guys like that.

Wondering whether the Astros will continue to target pitching as they've historically done, or if they're looking at position players to a greater extent this year?

[Duman]

I for one am severly irritated that they have expanded the time window for picks.  Since trading cannot occur by rule, it is only done to allow TV people to have 5 mins to blow smoke and look like they know something, or basically wasting our time.

It has been in years past a challenge sometimes just to find a stat sheet on a player before the next time your team picks again.  Heck they would run through 50 round in 2 days, I bet now it will take either 2 really long days or 3 to get it done.

The draft will not go as long since DFE's are no longer allowed.  Anyone want to guess when the picking stops  I say 40

[Jacksonian]

45 minutes in and they're through just 6 picks.  Brutal.

[kevwun]

Getting ESPN involved pretty much guaranteed that the draft would go ridiculously slow.

[Mike S]

It's like pulling teeth.

[matadorph]

Anyone know anything about Lamar High product Eric Eiland? I know he signed with A&M, but might he go pro instead?

[MusicMan]

Anyone else having Draft Tracker problems?

[Duman]

After I upgraded my flash and reloaded it went fine.

[Duman]

11 down, only 100 more to go.

[dirty steve]

45 minutes in and they're through just 6 picks.  Brutal.

i usually dont catch the draft until a few rounds in--how long does the first round typically take?
steve phillips said that teams dont typically draft for need, didnt the Astros draft Sapp last year because of the perceived dearth of good left handed hitting on the farm?

[Mike S]

I think he's probably referring to organizational need (i.e. lack of pitching), rather than a specific team need at the major league level (i.e. leadoff hitter).

Then again, Steve Phillips is an idiot.

[dirty steve]

first Houston area guy drafted--Kevin Ahrens (3B) Memorial HS to Toronto 16th overall.

[Jacksonian]

first Houston area guy drafted--Kevin Ahrens (3B) Memorial HS to Toronto 16th overall.

And half way through the first round at the 1 hour 40 minute mark. Brutal!!

Agree on the ESPN dragging it down.

First round used to take about 45 minutes or so.

[Jacksonian]

With what was the Astros first round pick the Rangers took Blake Beavens from Irving.  That's who the Rangers wanted all along.  He will no doubt get traded away and succeed or flame out.

[dirty steve]

Joe Savery to Phillies--didnt they take Kyle Drabek last year also?

[Froback]

With what was the Astros first round pick the Rangers took Blake Beavens from Irving.  That's who the Rangers wanted all along.  He will no doubt get traded away and succeed or flame out.

There were two really highly regarded other High School pitchers there too, some kid from NJ and another from Conn.  So there would have been options, but I am happy with Lee at the ML level.

I forget who did we sign that cost us the 2nd round pick this year?

[Jacksonian]

There were two really highly regarded other High School pitchers there too, some kid from NJ and another from Conn.  So there would have been options, but I am happy with Lee at the ML level.

I forget who did we sign that cost us the 2nd round pick this year?

Woody.

[kevwun]

Looking at his stats, Drabek hasn't been that great so far.  He's also got some other issues.

[dirty steve]

Looking at his stats, Drabek hasn't been that great so far.  He's also got some other issues.

  i heard a pretty sideable 'tude.  not sure if that's because of his dad, or of his talent.

[kevwun]

It goes beyond having an attitude because of his talent.  He's on a lot of medication to keep things under control.

[dirty steve]

It goes beyond having an attitude because of his talent.  He's on a lot of medication to keep things under control.

sorry.  the last i heard of him was last year around the draft.  hope he has everything squared away.

[Froback]

And half way through the first round at the 1 hour 40 minute mark. Brutal!!

Agree on the ESPN dragging it down.

First round used to take about 45 minutes or so.

We are still in the 1st round, 3 HOURS into it!!!! holy cow!!!

[Jacksonian]

3 hours to get through the first round.  Just awful.

They won't start a new round after 7:30.  So if things go really fast they might get through the 5th round today.

[Froback]

3 hours to get through the first round.  Just awful.

They won't start a new round after 7:30.  So if things go really fast they might get through the 5th round today.

That is just sick as they used to get through like 20 the first day and the last 30 the next day, IIRC

[kevwun]

I bet there are team officials that are frothing at the mouth right now because they are so pissed at how ESPN managed to muck up the draft in one year.

[Jacksonian]

I bet there are team officials that are frothing at the mouth right now because they are so pissed at how ESPN managed to muck up the draft in one year.

Nope.  Owners got in bed with ESPN over this knowing full well what would happen.  GM types may have objected to the notion, but the cash is rolling in.

[Froback]

So much for see the Astros make their first pick on TV...  At this rate they won't make their first pick today!!!

[dirty steve]

seems like things are starting to pick up now.

[kevwun]

I should have clarified team officials.  I didn't mean owners.  I'm talking about the GM's, scouting directors, etc who are making the picks.

[Froback]

I am still trying to figure out why 5 mins per pick when no trades are allowed, does it really take THAT long to look at your board and go, give me the top rated player... It is not like they are in round 15 or so and you have scouts arguing over two equally rated players.

[Jacksonian]

I am still trying to figure out why 5 mins per pick when no trades are allowed, does it really take THAT long to look at your board and go, give me the top rated player... It is not like they are in round 15 or so and you have scouts arguing over two equally rated players.

Gotta give ESPN enough air time in the first round to get sufficient advertising in place to pay for it.

[Froback]

Just 16 picks from the Astros 2nd round selection... oh wait... make that 56 from their 3rd round one, and first in the draft.

[matadorph]

Another Houston-area player taken by the Rangers with the 80th pick....Matt West from Bellaire.

[matadorph]

Lamar HS outfielder Eric Eiland taken 88th by Toronto.

[dirty steve]

Brian Friday (SS), Rice.  taken by Pittsburgh, 3d rd. 98th overall.

[dirty steve]

Astros 3rd. rd., 111th overall
Derek Dietrich-St. Ignatius High School (Ohio)  3B/RHP.  MLB talent is torn as to where he figures at the major league level.

bio:
Right-handed pitcher/3rd base
6' 1" - 190 pounds
St. Ignatius High School (Parma, OH)

Team: East Team
Hometown: Parma, OH
College: Undecided 

Find a scouting report at:
http://www.aflacallamerican.com/2006/Roster/index.cfm?id=131

 


ETA: Please don't copy another site's work in its entirety.

[dirty steve]

Astros 4th rd., 141st overall
Brett Eibner, RHP
Woodlands HS (TX)
6'3"-195

[Duman]

Round 5 Pick 171

Colin DeLome,
CF, Lamar University (Junior)
6'2"/ 200
Bats Left, Throws Right
Appears to be a speed guy with not much bat and not much arm.

[Duman]

Day one wrap

3 picks:

Left handed hitting High school shortstop who is projected to move to 3rd. 
Right handed high school pitcher
Left handed hitting college junior speedster center fielder

Let's see what day two holds.

[Froback]

Round 5 Pick 171

Colin DeLome,
CF, Lamar University (Junior)
6'2"/ 200
Bats Left, Throws Right
Appears to be a speed guy with not much bat and not much arm.

Nice little blurb on him from the Lamar University Baseball site:
http://lamarcardinals.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/060707aaa.html

DeLome, who was the 2006 SLC player and hitter of the year, finished his career as the school's all-time triples leader with 22. His .340 career batting average ranks seventh, his 220 hits rank sixth and his 150 RBIs ranks eighth in school history.

He only had 8 SBs this past year, Lamar isn't a tiny school, so not sure how bad the pitching was he faced, but those numbers seem to indicate a decent hitter, with some gap ability at least.

[Kent's Moustache]

Nice little blurb on him from the Lamar University Baseball site:
http://lamarcardinals.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/060707aaa.html

He only had 8 SBs this past year, Lamar isn't a tiny school, so not sure how bad the pitching was he faced, but those numbers seem to indicate a decent hitter, with some gap ability at least.

Lamar is a member of the Southland Conference, which plays some fairly salty baseball for a "mid-major" conference. 

Other members of the conference are McNeese State (alums include Seattle 1B Ben Broussard and Express RHP Jared Gothreaux); Texas-Arlington (alums include Astros OF Hunter Pence and Giants OF Dan Ortmeier), Louisiana-Monroe (alums include Brewers RHP Ben Sheets and Hooks 1B Todd Self); Texas State; Sam Houston State; etc.

[Duman]

I was reporting what MLB said about him which was below average arm, power, hitter.  Plus speed and baserunner.

His 8 stolen bases were second on the team.  The team may not have run much.  I would say based on his triples and the scouting report, he has good speed.  Base stealing has skill elements that must betaught/learned.  He was 8 of 11 in Stolen Bases last year.

[Froback]

I was reporting what MLB said about him which was below average arm, power, hitter.  Plus speed and baserunner.

Seems different scouts have different opinions (go figure!)...

BBA has this little blurb on him:

Few collegians can match his all-around package of tools, as he has bat speed, foot speed, center-field range and arm strength.

They go on to say he is still a huge work in progress and doesn't walk much or handle lefty pitchers well.  Here is hoping he blossoms under good coaching.

They did have this blurb at the end of the scouting report on him too:

A hot start positioned DeLome as a possible supplemental first-rounder, but he subsequently cooled off and now will be a second- or third-rounder.

[MusicMan]

Gotta give credit to BP on this one.  From their mock draft:

111. Houston Astros

To forecast the 111th pick in the draft in the equivalent of throwing a dart blindfolded. The Astros like athletes, so let’s give them a toolsy-yet-raw college talent who plays in their area.

Pick: Collin DeLome, OF, Lamar

[Jacksonian]

toolsy-yet-raw

That sums up the Astros first day picks pretty well.

[Jacksonian]

RE Delome: Watching the video footage his arm looked pretty below average to me.

[Duder]

I watched the Delome video as well and did not see the "strong" arm they were talking about.

[Mike S]

How did Kyle Russell fall to the fourth round?

[Mike S]

That sums up the Astros first day picks pretty well.

Bit underwhelmed by their last pick, but I really like the Dietrich selection.

[Jacksonian]

How did Kyle Russell fall to the fourth round?

His stated monetary demands were beyond what teams thought he was worth.

[Froback]

Day 2 begins.  Houston takes David Dinelli from Sierra JC.

He is a RHP.

Stats I could pull up were:

85.2 IP, 3.36 ERA, 118 Ks and 58 Walks  1.506 WHIP

[Jacksonian]

Day 2 begins.  Houston takes David Dinelli from Sierra JC.

He is a RHP.

Same school as DFE signee Andy Launier.

[kevwun]

Some scouts are also worried about Russell transitioning to wooden bats.  He set the Cape League record for strikeouts last summer. 

[Froback]

David Dixon, from Auburn (home town is Houston) for the 7th round pick.

he is a 2B.  Still looking for more info.

ETA: Best I can figure is he must have been hurt this year cause there are not stats on him (still digging)

2006: .313/.379/.470 with 4 HRs and 0 SBs, only 1 Error
2005: .289/.380/.394 with 1 HR and 3 SBs, zero Errors

Looks like start from almost the begining as he was in 50+ games both years, with 42 Starts in 05 and all starts in 06.

[Froback]

Astros select in the 8th round, Chad Bettis a High School RHP from Monterey HS in Tx.

[Jacksonian]

David Dixon, from Auburn (home town is Houston) for the 7th round pick.

he is a 2B.  Still looking for more info.

ETA: Best I can figure is he must have been hurt this year cause there are not stats on him (still digging)

2006: .313/.379/.470 with 4 HRs and 0 SBs, only 1 Error
2005: .289/.380/.394 with 1 HR and 3 SBs, zero Errors

Looks like start from almost the begining as he was in 50+ games both years, with 42 Starts in 05 and all starts in 06.

Broken thumb.  Missed the entire season.  Played RF and DH at Auburn.

[Jacksonian]

Astros select in the 8th round, Chad Bettis a High School RHP from Monterey HS in Tx.

6 picks to now.  3 raw pitchers.  3 left-handed hitters.

[Froback]

Makes you wonder why he is projected at 2B.  Looking at his Bio not sure he ever played there.
Going to assume he did in HS, cause it doesn't say.

[Froback]

So would you say they are reaching so far?

Looks like they are also targeting local types too.

[kevwun]

Have we taken the "dropped because of signability concerns" guy yet?  Or should we expect it in round 9?

[Jacksonian]

So would you say they are reaching so far?

Looks like they are also targeting local types too.

I won't call it reaching until I've had time to research the players for the draft article.  But, projectable is definitely the word to describe the draft class so far.

And, as I'm typing they take what looks like another projectable arm.

[Froback]

9th Round, Luis Pardo a RHP from Florida Gulf Coast University


76.2 IP, 2.93 ERA with 87 Ks and 18 walks 1.37 WHIP.

[Jacksonian]

Have we taken the "dropped because of signability concerns" guy yet?  Or should we expect it in round 9?

Patience.  I don't know most of the HS guys.  I'll figure it out for the draft article, unless someone here knows a draftee.

[Mike S]

Have we taken the "dropped because of signability concerns" guy yet?  Or should we expect it in round 9?

My thoughts exactly.  Definitely thought Kyle Russell would be that guy given the way he fell and what Jacksonian said about his bonus demands.

[Duman]

Makes you wonder why he is projected at 2B.  Looking at his Bio not sure he ever played there.
Going to assume he did in HS, cause it doesn't say.

That was the plan for Mitch E when he was picked in 04.  That experiment didn't work out to well.  We'll see how it goes with a college kid

[Froback]

10th Round:

Matthew Cusick from USC, sounds like a 2B version of Ben Zobrist from the bio on MLB.com.

ETA:

With his bat control and outstanding makeup... ability to hit for average and get on base will appeal to stats-hungry crowd.

[Froback]

Stat stuff on Cusick

.324/.415/.412   His OBP is higher than his Slugging... always find those quirks funny for some reason.

he did have 14 XB hits out of 66 total, but given metal bats...  only 10-15 on SBs.
31 walks to 17 Ks

[Jacksonian]

Stat stuff on Cusick

.324/.415/.412   His OBP is higher than his Slugging... always find those quirks funny for some reason.

he did have 14 XB hits out of 66 total, but given metal bats...  only 10-15 on SBs.
31 walks to 17 Ks

IOW, slappy.

[Mike S]

Cusick is looking like this year's Brooks Conrad.

[Jacksonian]

Cusick is looking like this year's Brooks Conrad.

Except opposite at the plate, with more range in the field.

[VirtualBob]

Except opposite at the plate, with more range in the field.

"Conrad" and "slappy" don't fit in the same sentence.

[Duman]

Round 11 Robert Bono RHP Waterford HS CT

Go to his video at about the 7 minute mark to see him pitch.  Fast ball in upper 80's with good action.  Big curve ball.

[Duman]

Round 12
Brian Pellegrini
6'1" 240
3rd R/R
St. Bonaventure

[Duman]

Here is our see if we can sign him pick

Round 13:
Chad Jones, OF
A Top Defensive back prospect in country signed with LSU

[kevwun]

Jones is also considered one of the top baseball players in the country. Most major league teams see Jones as being an outfielder in the future.

Al Jones, Chad's father, confirmed that baseball teams are worried about their ability to sign his son.

"We have talked to a lot of teams," Al Jones said. "Some of them want to know about the football situation. All I can say is that baseball is his first love. We still consider (Chad) a high-round draft choice.

"We think that teams may not draft him until the later rounds. That has nothing to do with Chad's ability, but due to his options."

Al Jones denied that a set money figure has been presented to the major league teams. He feels that his son should be considered a top pick no matter when he is selected. Al Jones also believes that his son should be paid for giving up one sport.

"Yes and no," said Al Jones, when asked if money has been discussed. "That's not something I want to discuss. We haven't brought up a solid figure. We figure that Chad is a high draft-choice type of kid and that's the neighborhood we want him to be paid.

"That's who he is. That's not what Al Jones and Chad Jones are saying. That's what the scouts are saying. If he were a low-round pick, you would not be calling me. Then, if baseball teams want him to give up something, they have to help him along."

Al Jones indicated that both the major league organizations and his family are trying to accumulate enough facts to make some intelligent decisions.

"There are questions that we want answered," Al Jones said. "We're seeking information. I can't speak for the (baseball) teams. But, it appears that they are doing the same thing, trying to find information."

http://rivals100.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=679035

[Duman]

You need to put a link to cite the source.

[Duman]

Round 14
Craig Corrado R/R RF
U of Tampa

Where Sergio Perez came from last year.

[kevwun]

Sorry, fixed it.  I have a rivals account, so I'm not sure if it's a free article or not.

[Duman]

You need to put a link to cite the source.

Thanks

[Duman]

Sorry, fixed it.  I have a rivals account, so I'm not sure if it's a free article or not.

No problem, we just want to make sure people who gather info for a living get credit for their work.

[Duman]

Bonnie nice site re: 12th round pick Brian Pellegrini

http://gobonnies.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/pellegrini-07.html

[Duman]

Round 15
Matthew Fitts RHP
Lewis & Clark  ST College (JR)

[Mike S]

Except opposite at the plate, with more range in the field.

Cusick's range is described as average at best, according to mlb.com.  My comparison was primarily based on their respective makeups (i.e. grinders, willing to put in the hard yards).

[Duman]

Round 16
Devon Torrence R/R OF
Canton South HS

Has signed to play football with Ohio State but is willing to forgo if given enough $

[Navin R Johnson]

Little more info on Dixon.

He is planning on transferring to UofH this fall.    He red shirted last season, due to the thumb injury.   So he will be a junior again next season, so he will maintain leverage for next draft too.    I knew he was on a couple teams radars, but I didnt expect him to go nearly this high if at all. 

[Duman]

Little more info on Dixon.

He is planning on transferring to UofH this fall.    He red shirted last season, due to the thumb injury.   So he will be a junior again next season, so he will maintain leverage for next draft too.    I knew he was on a couple teams radars, but I didnt expect him to go nearly this high if at all. 

Being an Auburn alum myself, I can't see anyone choosing to leave Auburn for love or money.

[Duman]

17th Round
Mason Roberts RHP
Cisco JC

[Duman]

18th Round
Brian Esperson RPH (JR)
Mercyhurst College

[Duman]

18th Round
Brian Esperson RPH (JR)
Mercyhurst College

Recently threw a no hitter in the coastal plains league during which he walked the bases loaded and then struck out the side.
http://hurstathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/060807aaa.html

[Duman]

19th round
Jonathan Fixler
Catcher U of Indiana

[Duman]

Round 20
Jeffery Greenwatt RHP
Souderton Area HS PA

Round 21
Kyle Miller
Catcher R/R
Central Fla CC

[Duman]

Round 22
Bernard Anderson RF
University of New Orleans
R/R Senior

Round 23
Charles Gamble 3rd
North Car. A & T
6'6" 235

[JaneDoe]

How many rounds are there?

[Jacksonian]

How many rounds are there?

50.  But teams do not have to go that far.  They can stop any time.

[Duman]

Round 24
Phillip Stringer
Auburn University
R/R SS

[Navin R Johnson]

Phillip Stringer is not good, at all.   He is a houston kid (Klein Oak) and was great in high school, signed with Tulane hit .136 as a freshman.  He then transferred to Auburn, where he hit .226,  the .173 as a junior and .198 this year.    what a waste of a pick.   Well he is black, so that should make the fools at the Chronicle happy.

[Duman]

Round 25 at least half way done

Kevin Carkeek
R/R Catcher
Oakland Univ.

[Jacksonian]

Phillip Stringer is not good, at all.   He is a houston kid (Klein Oak) and was great in high school, signed with Tulane hit .136 as a freshman.  He then transferred to Auburn, where he hit .226,  the .173 as a junior and .198 this year.    what a waste of a pick.   Well he is black, so that should make the fools at the Chronicle happy.

I don't think so.  This was IMO a nod to his father.  Martin Stringer is the director of the RBI Youth Diamond Sports League in Houston.  It's part of the reviving inner city baseball.  Not a waste pick esp in that round of the draft.

[Navin R Johnson]

They could have taken him in the 50th round.    The kid is 5'9" 150 2nd baseman who cant hit .200 with a aluminum bat.   Total waste.

[Duman]

This area of the draft has traditionally been a roster filler section.  Will that change since there are no DFE's?  Will we see more flyer picks on HS kids here?

[Duman]

They could have taken him in the 50th round.    The kid is 5'9" 150 2nd baseman who cant hit .200 with a aluminum bat.   Total waste.

This pick may be an indication of how few rounds this draft will go.

[Jacksonian]

They could have taken him in the 50th round.    The kid is 5'9" 150 2nd baseman who cant hit .200 with a aluminum bat.   Total waste.

Nah.  Org depth here.  Org depth at 50.  There aren't many, if any, real prospects left.  With no more DFE the higher quality guys that would have gone here either won't get picked at all or have already been picked much earlier.

[VirtualBob]

Nah.  Org depth here.  Org depth at 50.  There aren't many, if any, real prospects left.  With no more DFE the higher quality guys that would have gone here either won't get picked at all or have already been picked much earlier.

Which brings up an interesting question ... what is the NDFA status of college juniors (or even seniors ... or for that matter juco alums) who are not drafted?  Are they really "FA" or are they "SOL"?

[Duman]

Round 26
Yet another catcher but he must be a smart one

Sal Iacono
Catcher R/R
Princeton Univ

[Jacksonian]

Which brings up an interesting question ... what is the NDFA status of college juniors (or even seniors ... or for that matter juco alums) who are not drafted?  Are they really "FA" or are they "SOL"?

The only way they can be free agents is if they have completed all 4 years of their collegiate eligibility.

[VirtualBob]

The only way they can be free agents is if they have completed all 4 years of their collegiate eligibility.

thanks

[Duman]

Round 27
Brett Robinson
RHP
Florida Southern College

Dewey's boy
http://www.flsouthern.edu/athletics/baseball/bios/robinson.htm

[Duman]

Round 28
Jared Pitts
S. F. Austin
RF R/R (JR)

[EasTexAstro]

Round 28
Jared Pitts
S. F. Austin
RF R/R (JR)

Stats: http://sfajacks.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/stats/2006-2007/teamcume.html

Bio: http://sfajacks.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/pitts_jared00.html

[Duman]

Round 29
Travis Sweet
Univ. of Iowa
OF R/R (JR)

[Duman]

Round 30

Danny Gill
U of Miami
RHP SR


I am going to call it a day for me.  Someone else can take over the pick by pick if they choose to.

[Froback]

By my count (take with grain of salt):

RHP: 11
LHP: 0
C: 4
1B: 0
2B: 2
3B: 3
SS: 1
OF: 4
CF: 3


LH batters: 5
RH batters: 12

High School: 7
College Seniors: 10
College non-Seniors: 10 (includes CC and 4-year schools)

Missing one on the schools, but close enough.

[Froback]

Is Toronto the first team to pass in round 31?

[Froback]

Round 31:
Jason Dominguez, RHP Pepperdine University

Seems he was the closed, but he doesn't average K/IP and has close to a 1:1 BB:K ratio
Decent ERA at 3.46 though.

[Froback]

Round 32:
David Miller, RHP from San Jacinto St Univ.

Odd combo of righthanded pitcher who bats left.

[Froback]

Round 33:
Cody Phipps, CF from Vauxhall High School
R/R

This is a Canadian Baseball Academy type High School.

[Navin R Johnson]

Is Toronto the first team to pass in round 31?

yes.  Padres passed in round 36.  everyone else is still getting their draft on.

[Froback]

Catching you up:

Round 34:
Brian Wabick, RHP from Oakton CC in IL

Round 35:
Jordan Powell, RHP from Southern Illinois Univ at Carbondale

Round 36:
Albert Cartwright, CF from Polk CC in FL

Round 37:
Robert Leonhardt, RHP from Stephen F Austin St Univ

Round 38:
Robert Weinhardt, RHP from Oklahoma ST Univ.

[Froback]

Stats on Albert Cartwright

.344/.415/.432 with 11 of 63 hits X-base type, SB type though, with 21-23.

[Froback]

Round 39:
Scott Fletcher, SS from Starrs Mill High School in GA

[Froback]

Dodgers announced Round 39 is their last one.

[Froback]

Blurb about Scott Fletch from pay portion of BBA:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/draft/features/263981.html

Scott Fletcher spent 15 years in the big leagues, and his son Brian Fletcher has the bat speed and strength to develop into a prospect as well. He's improved his approach this season, using the whole field more often, though his swing has holes. When he squares the ball up, it jumps off his barrel. He's well-below-average defensively in the infield, and has had trouble making accurate throws this spring. A team that likes the juice in his bat could take him as high as the sixth round.

[Froback]

Round 40:
Kyle Erdman, LHP from Oakton CC

This is the first LHP they have drafted this year (I think).

[Froback]

Round 41:
Jim Pitkin, LHP from Ross S Sterling High School in Tx.

Guess they finally started to find some Lefties.

[Kent's Moustache]

Catching you up:

Round 34:
Brian Wabick, RHP from Oakton CC in IL

Round 35:
Jordan Powell, RHP from Southern Illinois Univ at Carbondale

Round 36:
Albert Cartwright, CF from Polk CC in FL

Round 37:
Robert Leonhardt, RHP from Stephen F Austin St Univ

Round 38:
Robert Weinhardt, RHP from Oklahoma ST Univ.

What are the odds?

[Froback]

Round 42:
Christopher Turner, CF from Brandon High School in FL.


This is my last round to report, heading home from work.  5 rounds in day 1, 45 in day 2... WOW it is amazing the difference TV makes on this draft.

[Froback]

What are the odds?

Believe me I had to double check a few times to be sure I got it right... too odd.

[dirty steve]

Round 43:
marques williams- RF
Compton (CA) CC
6'0" R/R

Round 44:
Cat Everett- SS
Tulane
6'1" S/R

***Astros pass on remaining picks***

[CarolinaStro]

20 round pick to sign and skip college...http://www.goupstate.com/article/20070609/PSPORTS02/70609002/-1/PSPORTS

[Bonomaniac]

Scout.com: What big league player would you best compare yourself to in terms of style and why?

Kyle Greenwalt: Roy Oswalt, because we have the same tempo on the mound.

Scout.com: Could you please describe your repertoire of pitches, the velocities of each and which is your best pitch, etc.

Kyle Greenwalt: My fastball is 92-96 MPH, my curveball is 68-72 MPH, my slider is 80-84, my changeup is around 64 MPH, and my knuckleball is about 60 MPH. My fastball is my best pitch because I can spot it where I want and because it has movement in, out and down.

Scout.com: I understand that you went to Yankee Stadium for a tryout over

http://mlb.scout.com/2/578178.html

about halfway down page

[Duder]

Nice find.

[Duman]

Devon Torrence, 16th round pick and Ohio State Signee has not shown up for the North South All Star Football game in Ohio

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/dispatch/content/sports/stories/2007/06/11/osurecruit.html

Sounds like there are some serious negotiations going on.

[Jacksonian]

Devon Torrence, 16th round pick and Ohio State Signee has not shown up for the North South All Star Football game in Ohio

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/dispatch/content/sports/stories/2007/06/11/osurecruit.html

Sounds like there are some serious negotiations going on.

Well, at least he's smart enough to know not to jeopardize a possible multi-$100,000 signing bonus by playing in a meaningless football game.

[MusicMan]

Kyle Greenwalt: My fastball is 92-96 MPH, my curveball is 68-72 MPH, my slider is 80-84, my changeup is around 64 MPH, and my knuckleball is about 60 MPH. My fastball is my best pitch because I can spot it where I want and because it has movement in, out and down.

Riiiiight.  If all this were true, he'd be in MMPUS tonight.

[CarolinaStro]

http://www.cleveland.com/mlb/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/118137855857330.xml&coll=2

3rd round pick HS SS Dietrich sounds like he will sign...

[Duman]

21st rounder close to signing

Miller, a transfer from Central Florida Community College, was not drafted until the 21st round by the Houston Astros. But the Astros intend to use Miller as a catcher, the position he figured to play in the pros. The sides have yet to agree to terms but are close, Miller said Monday.

http://www.thestate.com/186/story/89234.html

ETA: Actually, he has now signed:

Central Florida Community College product Kyle Miller chose professional baseball over Clemson University on Monday as he agreed to financial terms with the Houston Astros.

http://www.starbanner.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070611/NEWS/70611009/1340/NEWS
The article also said he is eager to make the transition to Catcher.

[Mike S]

Apparently, it's going to take a $1m to sign 13th round pick Chad Jones, or so says Jim Callis:

Q:  Adam from Louisiana asks:
Chad Jones.....pro's or LSU?
 
 A:  Jim Callis: He's the 13th-round pick of the Astros and a top football recruit. The Astros didn't have a first- or second-rounder, and their draft would be helped if owner Drayton McLane gave them the cash to sign him. It might be close to $1 million though, and I'm not sure McLane will do that.
 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/features/264243.html

[Navin R Johnson]

I heard the Dixon wants "5th round" money, or he is going back to school.    I would guess that means about 165K.

[jaklewein]

Round 43:
marques williams- RF
Compton (CA) CC
6'0" R/R

***Astros pass on remaining picks***

Nice story:  http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070611&content_id=2019454&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

I hope we sign him.

[Duman]

Scott Brian Fletcher leaning towards college.

"Starr’s Mill shortstop and Auburn signee Brian Fletcher was drafted next, going to the Houston Astros in Round 39 with the 1,180th overall pick. Fletcher hit .412 with eight home runs and 25 RBI, a .598 on-base percentage and a .838 slugging percentage in his senior season.
Fletcher was excited to be drafted, but he is leaning heavily toward playing for Auburn and bypassing the majors."

http://www.thecitizen.com/node/17707

[dirty steve]

7th rounder David Dixon agrees to terms, taking BP with the number 7 on his jersey at MMPUS today.

[JaneDoe]

Astros have signed 26 draft choices:

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070613&content_id=2024119&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Quote:

Interestingly, the signees wore the uniform numbers that corresponded with the round they were taken in the the June 7-8 First-Year Player Draft. That meant all three wore numbers of some pretty recognizable players, including DeLome's No. 5 (Jeff Bagwell), Dixon's No. 7 (Craig Biggio) and Everett's No. 44 (Roy Oswalt).

Giving No. 5 to a prospect, even for a day, could be considered blasphemous, considering that number will be retired for good on Aug. 29.

"It was on my back and I said, 'All right, I'll wear it,'" DeLome said with a smile. "They could have put [Bagwell's] name on the back and that would have been fine, too."

[JaneDoe]

List of those signed:  http://houston.astros.mlb.com/team/draft.jsp?c_id=hou

[Duman]

List of those signed:  http://houston.astros.mlb.com/team/draft.jsp?c_id=hou

We signed 25 of 31 kids with atleast one year of college experience.
We have signed 1 of 11 kids right out of HS 

Seeing as 5 of the first 11 picks were HS kids, I am hoping that number goes up.  The article mentioned above said the #3 pick was close.

[Duman]

Another High School Kid on the brink of signing:

They offered me fifth-round money, so I'm going to sign," Greenwalt said emphatically. "It's just a matter of time as to when I do."...

Amazingly enough, Greenwalt wasn't even one of the first 10 Kyles selected in the draft. ...

Greenwalt said he will likely start his professional career at rookie ball in Greenville, Tenn. And we're not talking about three or four months down the road. Greenwalt's career will begin as soon as he gets back from his senior trip on June 26....

http://www.thebulletin.us/site/news.cfm?newsid=18474777&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=6

[Duman]

34th rounder Brian Wabick (Oakland CC) struggling between small signing bonus and playing for Long Island University

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=8&id=13417

[Fletch]

Baseball America and MLB.com show him as signed.

[VirtualBob]

Baseball America and MLB.com show him as signed.

him?

[Fletch]

Brian Wabick

[Duman]

Interesting tidbit on 3rd rounder Dietrich

"Derek Dietrich, the Houston Astros' first pick in this year's draft, is the grandson of Salem-Roanoke Baseball Hall of Fame member Steve Demeter.

Demeter managed Salem's Carolina League team for four seasons (1973, 1976, 1977, 1987) when it was in the Pittsburgh Pirates' organization, winning the championship in 1987.

Demeter told The Roanoke Times baseball writer emeritus Bob Teitlebaum that Dietrich wants to play -- he would likely start with rookie Greeneville (Tenn.) -- if the Astros "come through."

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/baseball/wb/wb/xp-120885

[Duman]

Updates on some high school kids:

Chad Jones :

Major League Baseball rules allow Houston to spread his bonus over five years as part of a standard minor-league contract because he has two-sport potential, even if he gives up football. The Astros could pay a large bonus and not have it cut too deeply into the team’s budget for bonuses for any one season.

That rule, in place for about a decade, was put in place to make it easier for baseball teams to sign two-sport athletes. How easy it will be for Houston to sign Jones remains to be seen.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/sports/lsu/featured/8037642.html?showAll=y&c=y

Kyle Greenwalt:

The 20th-round draft pick of the Houston Astros, the 6-foot-1, 195-pound flamethrower will sign a professional contract today. Before he heads out for Class A ballRookie ball, though, he leaves for his senior trip to Mexico tomorrow.

He returns on the 24th and leaves two days later to play for either the Avalanche in Salem, Va., or the Astros in Greeneville, Tenn.

FIFT, that is sloppy reporting, you would think someone like me had done that.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/jeff_mclane/8038612.html

Devon Torrence:

an American League scout told us Torrence is asking for fourth-round money. Last year, seven high school position players were taken in the fourth round, and the average signing bonus was $507,000 - it ranged from $227,000 to $1 million.

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=360397&Category=17&subCategoryID=0

[Jacksonian]

Hogs coach Van Horn thinks Eibner will go to Arkansas rather than sign.

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2007/06/13/razorback_central/061407uabballwrap.txt

"Right now I think it's 60-40 we get him."

[Jacksonian]

Devon Torrence is reportedly very close to signing and being the only Astros prospect I can remember to do the two sport (football) deal.

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=360422&Category=17&subCategoryID=0

"It's something we want done, and Devon wants done," said Nick Venuto, Houston's scouting supervisor for the Midwest. "If there are no snags, it should happen."

Supposedly meeting with Ohio State compliance folks today.

"A number of financial, logistical and compliance issues need to be hammered out before a deal is done. If all goes well, Torrence could be playing pro baseball by Wednesday."

[Jacksonian]

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=360736&Category=17&subCategoryID=0

Will play at Greeneville possibly as early as Thursday.  Will stay through early August then report to Ohio State to gear up for the college football season.

[dirty steve]

Hogs coach Van Horn thinks Eibner will go to Arkansas rather than sign.

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2007/06/13/razorback_central/061407uabballwrap.txt

"Right now I think it's 60-40 we get him."

60-40 doesnt sound extremely confident, what is eibner wanting in terms of signing money?
do the Astros have an out of Torrence hurts himself at OSU?

[Jacksonian]

60-40 doesnt sound extremely confident, what is eibner wanting in terms of signing money?
do the Astros have an out of Torrence hurts himself at OSU?

Haven't heard re: eibner.  My feeling is that Eibner is debating college with his brother rather than signing bonus amount.

Torrence terms haven't been disclosed.  Probably spreading the bonus out over several years to cover themselves as is allowed for 2-sport athletes.  There's a Chad Jones article linked above that briefly talks about that kind of thing.

[Jacksonian]

http://folsomtelegraph.com/articles/2007/06/20/sports/local_sports/02matthews.txt

[Duman]

Bono coming to Greeneville

"They just gave me a deal that I couldn't pass up," Bono said Tuesday."

I guess he finally found what he'd been looking for

http://www.norwichbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070619/SPORTS/70619021/1006

[jaklewein]

Bono coming to Greeneville

I guess he finally found what he'd been looking for

http://www.norwichbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070619/SPORTS/70619021/1006

Is it correct to assume that the Astros will be paying him to pitch?

[Jacksonian]

Is it correct to assume that the Astros will be paying him to pitch?

That's what they drafted him for.

[Noe]

Bono coming to Greeneville

I guess he finally found what he'd been looking for

http://www.norwichbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070619/SPORTS/70619021/1006

I picture a man in a pinstripe suit making the offer to him.  "Hey, ho, yo... youse wanna tawk?  I gots an offer for youse..."

[Duman]

It's official: Dinelli, Bono, Greenwalt, & Torrence signings announced by Astros

I saw Torrence in uniform Wednesday night,  he was signing his lease agreement on his apartment between games

[Froback]

It's official: Dinelli, Bono, Greenwalt, & Torrence signings announced by Astros

I saw Torrence in uniform Wednesday night,  he was signing his lease agreement on his apartment between games

You can't get that kind of info just anywhere!

I think it is really cool that we have posters in the sites of these minor league sites, it adds SO much more to the info about how they are really doing as young prospects.  Thanks to all who add that type of input!

[Towlie]

Torrence isnt looking very good at the plate.

[JaneDoe]

Torrence isnt looking very good at the plate.

What's the matter?  His uniform dirty? 

In other words, can you explain better.  What leads you to make that statement?  Swinging behind pitches? 

Thanks.

[Towlie]

In 3 games (7 at-bats) Torrence is batting .000 with 6 strikeouts. I know its only 7 at-bats and 3 games and that hes very young but those numbers are quite disappointing.

[dirty steve]

In 3 games (7 at-bats) Torrence is batting .000 with 6 strikeouts. I know its only 7 at-bats and 3 games and that hes very young but those numbers are quite disappointing.

you know similar players of higher stature have probably gone through the same "slump?"  the guy was in high school 6-8 weeks ago.

[Duder]

Seven at-bats is not a very large sample...

[Froback]

I sure hope you are trying to "evaulate" him from something MORE than just the boxscores.

[Duman]

I sure hope you are trying to "evaulate" him from something MORE than just the boxscores.

I have resisted saying anything because I haven't seen him at the plate yet, I hope to catch a couple of games next week and will let you know what I see. 

Chris Turner I have seen - choppy swing being baffled by better pitching than he has ever seen it is very early but he is frustrated as evidenced by his ejection the other night. 

Parks was overpowered the nigh I saw him.  It is to be expected if he truely didn't play ball last year.

[Jacksonian]

In 3 games (7 at-bats) Torrence is batting .000 with 6 strikeouts. I know its only 7 at-bats and 3 games and that hes very young but those numbers are quite disappointing.

Numbers are irrelevent.  There is absolutely nothing disappointing about him.

[Towlie]

I know its only 7 at-bats and that he only just got out of high school but damn just get a hit already! I'm listening to the minor league games on the net radio and hearing about the errors and missed plays of our organizations players...I just want them to play better and I want good news from some there in the org. I just want good news in the organization -_-...sorry if i made you mad.

Also, I fear that if Torrence doesn't hit well here that he'll just stick to football so I really feel uncomfortable about the amount of strikeouts; i think he had high totals for his high school career as well, correct?





Question: Are the astros looking for contact hitters now more so than the typical hitter that we've been us to seeing these recent years (ala. Big right handers with long swings aka...Jason Lane types)? I think one of the things that hurts this team is the lack of two top of the order speedy guys who can put the ball in play.

Also, it looks like the stros are probably going to give Tommy Manzella a serious look at SS in spring training next year (from his recent promotion and from comments Pupura has made about his play). I know his defense is major league caliber but I've had mixed feelings for his offensive ability. He has more pop than Adam Everett and he seems like he can develop into a more offensive threat as well. What kind of evaluation do you have on him and his play?

[Jacksonian]

A couple of things about Torrence:  he hasn't played organized ball in, what?, a month or more?  Plus, who was he facing?  College pitcher?  Pitcher repeating the league?  If he's willing to give up because of a bad start...  Plus his signing bonus payment is broken down so that if he quits too early he won't get the full amount.

There is plenty of good news in the org:  Pence, Patton, Paulino, Towles, Flores, Manzella, Iorg before freak injury, James, Bogusevic, Salamida, Perez, Gervacio, Johnson, Torres, Einertson, Van Ostrand, Parraz, Sapp, DeLome, Dixon, some of the Venezulelan players are adjusting to the US ok. Plus several of the top high school draftees haven't signed yet, Dinelli hasn't played yet.

The Astros draft the best player available, especially in the top 7-10 rounds regardless of pitcher or position player and tools.  Too, they're not going to reach just to get a guy with a particular tool.  Top of the order kind of guys in the system: Anderson, MRod, Flores, Ash, Sutton, Moresi, and several drafted this year.  Some are better prospects than others, but the Astros do have them.

Manzella is as you say.  He's a major league shortstop.  He's not yet a major league hitter.  His chances in the majors are completely dependent on his ability to hit enough.  Rest assured the Astros are doing/have done whatever they can to make him a better hitter.  If you look at the top 10 from this year you'll see we include a note that the Astros are looking at him as a possible Everett replacement down the road.

[Duman]

A couple of things about Torrence:  he hasn't played organized ball in, what?, a month or more?  Plus, who was he facing?  College pitcher?  Pitcher repeating the league? 

The average age of the pitchers he has faced so far is 20 3/4.  His last 3 k's came against a 23 year old pitcher. 

[Towlie]

A couple of things about Torrence:  he hasn't played organized ball in, what?, a month or more?  Plus, who was he facing?  College pitcher?  Pitcher repeating the league?  If he's willing to give up because of a bad start...  Plus his signing bonus payment is broken down so that if he quits too early he won't get the full amount.

There is plenty of good news in the org:  Pence, Patton, Paulino, Towles, Flores, Manzella, Iorg before freak injury, James, Bogusevic, Salamida, Perez, Gervacio, Johnson, Torres, Einertson, Van Ostrand, Parraz, Sapp, DeLome, Dixon, some of the Venezulelan players are adjusting to the US ok. Plus several of the top high school draftees haven't signed yet, Dinelli hasn't played yet.

The Astros draft the best player available, especially in the top 7-10 rounds regardless of pitcher or position player and tools.  Too, they're not going to reach just to get a guy with a particular tool.  Top of the order kind of guys in the system: Anderson, MRod, Flores, Ash, Sutton, Moresi, and several drafted this year.  Some are better prospects than others, but the Astros do have them.

Manzella is as you say.  He's a major league shortstop.  He's not yet a major league hitter.  His chances in the majors are completely dependent on his ability to hit enough.  Rest assured the Astros are doing/have done whatever they can to make him a better hitter.  If you look at the top 10 from this year you'll see we include a note that the Astros are looking at him as a possible Everett replacement down the road.

Out of those guys I can only see them giving Flores a real shot and maybe Anderson. I still feel like they should give Jonny Ash real consideration because as you say, hes maxing out his ability as a player because he isn't as athletic as most; that reminds me of David Eckstien. It just feels like the Astro's wait so long to bring a prospect up to replace an under performing player. Whats wrong with giving Saccomanno (sp?) a chance to play at 3b now since Ensberg and Lamb are now trade fodder? He does play both 1st and 3rd base and Ensberg is basically dead weight on the bench right now. Being 14 games out should give them a chance to bring up a Saccomanno or  a Paulino or a Patton (probably sept. call up).

Maybe a change in the tide is occurring because of what Hunter Pence has been able to do.

edited: DeLome and Dixon are adjusting nicely so far.

[Froback]

Oh boy here we go.

Ok, I like Ash, and wouldn't mind him getting a chance to see what he can do at 2B in the majors, but the organization seems to think at best he will be a bench role-player type at best.  I think he might be another Eckstein type, but not sure he has that much talent.  IF Burke is trades AND Biggio retires AND Loretta is not re-sign next year you might see Ash starting, lots of IFs there though.

Flores just got to AA, give him a chance to do something before you start anointing him anything.

Anderson will be a 4th OF, Pinch-Runner type.  That is unless he suddenly figures out how to bat .330 or walk more.  He has all the other skills to be a ML OF, but his bat is what is holding him back.  I expect he will be called up in Sept and will at least make the club as a bench player in 08 (maybe that is even high for him), taking OP's spot.

Saccomanno is not even on the 40 man, and has been exposed to at least one rule V draft, IIRC.  So while he might fill in, I doubt he will be more than a AAAA type player, but you never know what late-blooming he might do, but he will not be on the ML squad unless really bad things or lots of trades happen.  Even at 3B I think there is one or two people at 3B who would be called up prior to him, especially since he is not on the 40 man.

Paulino and Patton.  Both have been address well by Jacksonian if you take a look around.  They are guys who are earning their spot in the pecking order but are not really ready for MLs yet...

[Jacksonian]

Out of those guys I can only see them giving Flores a real shot and maybe Anderson. I still feel like they should give Jonny Ash real consideration because as you say, hes maxing out his ability as a player because he isn't as athletic as most; that reminds me of David Eckstien. It just feels like the Astro's wait so long to bring a prospect up to replace an under performing player. Whats wrong with giving Saccomanno (sp?) a chance to play at 3b now since Ensberg and Lamb are now trade fodder? He does play both 1st and 3rd base and Ensberg is basically dead weight on the bench right now. Being 14 games out should give them a chance to bring up a Saccomanno or  a Paulino or a Patton (probably sept. call up).

Maybe a change in the tide is occurring because of what Hunter Pence has been able to do.

edited: DeLome and Dixon are adjusting nicely so far.

Let's give the Astros a little credit here.  Saccomanno is having a career year.  Yet he's now hitting under .300.  He hasn't been a full-time 3b in the Astros org in part because of past injury issues and that he's considered an average 3b.  Up to right now Sacc has played like a long-term minor leaguer.  But, if things continue to devolve in Houston they might give him a shot.

I'll be very surprised if Patton got a look at the major league level.  He's been inconsistent all year.  Didn't I write this somewhere on the site today?  That's he's done so well statistically is a credit to his natural talent.  Paulino is likely ticketed for the bullpen long-term.  If he got a looksee late this year there I wouldn't be surprised.

Which underperforming player would you have replaced in the recent past with which prospect?

[jbm]

There is plenty of good news in the org:  Pence, Patton, Paulino, Towles, Flores, Manzella, Iorg before freak injury, James, Bogusevic, Salamida, Perez, Gervacio, Johnson, Torres, Einertson, Van Ostrand, Parraz, Sapp, DeLome, Dixon, some of the Venezulelan players are adjusting to the US ok. Plus several of the top high school draftees haven't signed yet, Dinelli hasn't played yet.

I just wanted to highlight this observation again.  Things aren't that bad for the Astros future, and imo, look better now than they did before the year started.

As to Paulino, he has throw 6 innings a few times, but they seem to really limit his innings.  Has he had arm troubles in the past and are they just being cautious?  I got to see him throw his last two innings last weekend.  Based on what I had read, I expected to merely see a hard thrower, but he had some polish. 

[Jacksonian]

I just wanted to highlight this observation again.  Things aren't that bad for the Astros future, and imo, look better now than they did before the year started.

As to Paulino, he has throw 6 innings a few times, but they seem to really limit his innings.  Has he had arm troubles in the past and are they just being cautious?  I got to see him throw his last two innings last weekend.  Based on what I had read, I expected to merely see a hard thrower, but he had some polish. 

He has had arm issues in the past.  And, yes, he's worked hard to be more than just a strong arm.

[Towlie]

They really don't have anything to lose by playing Saccomanno and it would be nice to see what he can do. I don't expect anything to happen until after this 11 game homestand and after the all-star break. It all depends on if everything can get on track. The astros need more bullpen help than anything right now.

edit: I figure Albers and McLemore will have some change.

[Towlie]

Hopefully Torrence is getting a feel for his new enviorment now. he got his 1st hit, a single  . Also, I was told that Bono looked good in his 1st time out yesterday by my friend thats also a plus.

[Froback]

Cartwright is now signed, first I have seen of it.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=414

ETA: I can't even claim fat-fingering, t and the w are nowhere near each other.

[Duman]

Cartwright is not signed, first I have seen of it.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=414

Now that he is signed, either Greeneville or Tri Cities will have 7 outfielders on the roster.  I anticipate it being Greeneville.  If there is a trickle up effect, Darnell might be headed to Tri Cities.

[JaneDoe]

So, who is still left unsigned?

[Duman]

So, who is still left unsigned?

According to Baseball America, here are the draft picks still unsigned:

3     111     Derek Dietrich     
4     141     Brett Eibner
8     261     Chad Bettis
13     411     Chad Jones
15     471     Matt Fitts
33     1009     Cody Phipps
38     1152     Robbie Weinhardt
39     1180     Brian Fletcher
40     1208     Kyle Erdman
43     1286     Marques Williams     

Round 41 Pitkin is still listed as unsigned but he has signed and is on the Greeneville roster.  That means 32 out of 42 have signed.  Of the 10 left, two are college kids, two are community college kids, and 6 are high schoolers.

[Duman]

As noted in the earlier post, 41st Rounder Pitkin has signed and is in Greeneville.  Here is an article from the Baytown paper that gives more background:

Some Highlights:

Storybook quality

Pitkin, who was a pitcher for the Sterling junior varsity his junior season, will play at Greenville in the rookie league.

Good insights from HS Coach

“Regardless of how you are doing, they are going to throw you which is not the case in college....getting drafted is about miles per hour and moving up is about getting outs.

$$

Pitkin signed for $35,000 with bonus incentives. The package for players drafted in the 41st round is usually in the neighborhood of $4,000 to $7,000.

His stuff

In that workout in front of front office personnel and scouts, Pitkin threw upward of 92 to 93 mph....Since the end of Sterling’s season, Pitkin has developed a change-up that tails away from right-handers as his second pitch and will work on his slider next off-season

http://www.baytownsun.com/story.lasso?ewcd=b768763a03303b75

[jbm]

What's y'alls take on dates for signing the unsigned, assuming they are signable.  Is there going to be a quiet period until near Aug 15, or are signings just as likely to occur at any time between now and then?

[Duman]

What's y'alls take on dates for signing the unsigned, assuming they are signable.  Is there going to be a quiet period until near Aug 15, or are signings just as likely to occur at any time between now and then?

Just my gut feeling on what I have read since the draft, I would expect Derek Dietrich to sign and maybe Bettis. Jones is also a possibility. Since there is no DFE, you might see more signings right up to Aug. 15th.

[Towlie]

I don't ever remember having a top pick (in this case Dietrich) take so long to sign.

[CarolinaStro]

Just my gut feeling on what I have read since the draft, I would expect Derek Dietrich to sign and maybe Bettis. Jones is also a possibility. Since there is no DFE, you might see more signings right up to Aug. 15th.

Since you don't mention him, has there been some unfavorable news regarding Eibner?  Also, do you know if we signed any IFA's of note?  Thanks for any updates...

[Duman]

Since you don't mention him, has there been some unfavorable news regarding Eibner?  Also, do you know if we signed any IFA's of note?  Thanks for any updates...

No unfavorable news, just no news.

No info on IFA's as of yet.

[Duman]

Now that he is signed, either Greeneville or Tri Cities will have 7 outfielders on the roster.  I anticipate it being Greeneville.  If there is a trickle up effect, Darnell might be headed to Tri Cities.

He is in greeneville but is not on the roster yet do to some paperwork issues (obtaining a SSN).  He has been taking infield in practice.  The roster is now full.

[barb]

Now that he is signed, either Greeneville or Tri Cities will have 7 outfielders on the roster.  I anticipate it being Greeneville.  If there is a trickle up effect, Darnell might be headed to Tri Cities.

Seems time to trim the fat some in Greeneville. Darnell should be heading up...and then there's Timmy...

[Duman]

Seems time to trim the fat some in Greeneville. Darnell should be heading up...and then there's Timmy...

I dont' see Darnell moving up because Tri Cities is already clogged at outfield and instead of moving up another 1b from Lex, they traded for a 26 year old former 2nd round pick of the indians (for a player to be named later) to play in Salem. 

I also don't see Timmy being released mid season.  They have too much invested in him at this point and time. 

Stringer is the most expendable based on his age and performance up to this time.  Although he has been playing better in the field lately.

Overall I have seen improvement in Greeneville in the past few games. 

[barb]

I dont' see Darnell moving up because Tri Cities is already clogged at outfield and instead of moving up another 1b from Lex, they traded for a 26 year old former 2nd round pick of the indians (for a player to be named later) to play in Salem. 

I also don't see Timmy being released mid season.  They have too much invested in him at this point and time. 

Stringer is the most expendable based on his age and performance up to this time.  Although he has been playing better in the field lately.

Overall I have seen improvement in Greeneville in the past few games. 

Yeah Stringer makes TJ look like a Golden Glove at times

[Duman]

RE: Chad Jones

Last  night in the Greeneville game, I spoke to a scout from an American League team who is from the Baton Rouge area.  He said it is very unlikely the Astros will sign Chad Jones.  According to him, the dollar amount the Jones family is wanting is over 2 million dollars.  That is top 5 pick money and a million more than had been published earlier.  If that is true, Mr. Jones will be a LSU Tiger this fall.

[Froback]

Do you think the recent struggles of the rookie class will make an impact on this or any other discussion with unsigned rookies?

[Jacksonian]

Do you think the recent struggles of the rookie class will make an impact on this or any other discussion with unsigned rookies?

Not with Jones.  He wouldn't have been a top 5 pick without signability issues.  The money demand is ridiculous if correct.

What struggles?

[Froback]

What struggles?

Probably focusing too much on stats but:

Greeneville:
Dead last in BA, OBP, SLG, HRs(hit), Runs, BBs, SOs (batters), ERA, HRs(allowed), HBP(given), WHIP, or and Wins.

Tri-City:
10 out of 14 in BA, last in OBP, 8th in SLG, 12th in OPS, tie for 8th in HRs, last in Runs (scored), next to last in BBs, last in ERA, tie 10th in HRs (allowed), Tie 9th in HBP(given), last in WHIP and last in Wins.

ETA: I couldn't find the stat anywhere, but I would be surprised is one or both are not last in Errors too.
Updated ETA: Ok, did a stat pull, Greeneville is actually middle of the pack in Errors, Tri-City has two other with more.

[Jacksonian]

Probably focusing too much on stats but:

Greeneville:
Dead last in BA, OBP, SLG, HRs(hit), Runs, BBs, SOs (batters), ERA, HRs(allowed), HBP(given), WHIP, or and Wins.

Tri-City:
10 out of 14 in BA, last in OBP, 8th in SLG, 12th in OPS, tie for 8th in HRs, last in Runs (scored), next to last in BBs, last in ERA, tie 10th in HRs (allowed), Tie 9th in HBP(given), last in WHIP and last in Wins.

ETA: I couldn't find the stat anywhere, but I would be surprised is one or both are not last in Errors too.
Updated ETA: Ok, did a stat pull, Greeneville is actually middle of the pack in Errors, Tri-City has two other with more.

I look at it this way.  The Astros didn't have a first or second round pick.  3 and 4 are unsigned.  5 is doing well.  6 is hurt. 7 is doing well.  8 is unsigned.  9 and on college picks aren't usually expected to light up the league.  High school kids are a crap shoot.  Everyone else is either a hold over from last year or new to the country.  Problems are expected and considering what the Astros currently have to work with in the short season leagues should be expected in great quantity.

[Froback]

I look at it this way.  The Astros didn't have a first or second round pick.  3 and 4 are unsigned.  5 is doing well.  6 is hurt. 7 is doing well.  8 is unsigned.  9 and on college picks aren't usually expected to light up the league.  High school kids are a crap shoot.  Everyone else is either a hold over from last year or new to the country.  Problems are expected and considering what the Astros currently have to work with in the short season leagues should be expected in great quantity.

Oh I agree, they really are short handed because of lost picks and lack of signing from several of the top picks that were made.

But in the end when you look back on a draft, you still have to evaulate the talent acquired in it.  I think the current showing should create more pressure from the management to put up money for the unsigned... just my thoughts.  (BTW, I DON'T think they should go paying $2 Mil for any of them either!)

[Jacksonian]

Oh I agree, they really are short handed because of lost picks and lack of signing from several of the top picks that were made.

But in the end when you look back on a draft, you still have to evaulate the talent acquired in it.  I think the current showing should create more pressure from the management to put up money for the unsigned... just my thoughts.  (BTW, I DON'T think they should go paying $2 Mil for any of them either!)

I don't know if there's pressure from the poor showings so far.  I know there is pressure from the Aug 15 deadline.

The Astros have a $ figure range for each pick.  They may be willing to stretch that for Dietrich, Eibner, and Bettis.  I dunno.  But, they won't go overboard.

IMO, though, they need to get 2 of those 3, esp if Jones isn't going to sign.  As an aside I saw an article where LSU baseball coach Mainieri (sp?) believes Jones is going to attend LSU.

[Froback]

If it is going to take $2 Mil to keep him from LSU, I would think that is correct.

[Froback]

Over on BBA they have on the pay side the slot numbers for draft slots.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/draft/news/264528.html

Just to give you the Astros top 2 guys:

Derek Dietrich, 3b is at $270,000
EVERYONE in the 3rd round is right at the figure listed this year with only a couple left unsigned.

Astros: Brett Eibner, rhp is at $180,000
Same as 3rd, but there are a few more unsigned.  Most right around the Astros pick too.

And since it was mentioned the one kid who wanted $2 Mil, that would be top 7 money, and $1 Mil is right at end of Round 1 (last pick is slotted at $990,000).

They only list the top 5 rounds (and supp picks) and the only 2 guys to get more than slot money are at
$7500 over slot and $500 over slot.  Those being picks 22 and 96 overall.

[Jacksonian]

Over on BBA they have on the pay side the slot numbers for draft slots.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/draft/news/264528.html

Just to give you the Astros top 2 guys:

Derek Dietrich, 3b is at $270,000
EVERYONE in the 3rd round is right at the figure listed this year with only a couple left unsigned.

Astros: Brett Eibner, rhp is at $180,000
Same as 3rd, but there are a few more unsigned.  Most right around the Astros pick too.

And since it was mentioned the one kid who wanted $2 Mil, that would be top 7 money, and $1 Mil is right at end of Round 1 (last pick is slotted at $990,000).

They only list the top 5 rounds (and supp picks) and the only 2 guys to get more than slot money are at
$7500 over slot and $500 over slot.  Those being picks 22 and 96 overall.

You're saying that would be the slot money for them.  Not that they've signed, right?

[Froback]

Right those are the slot amounts,  They remain unsigned.  At least as of this posting and my knowledge.

[Jacksonian]

Eibner has registered at Arkansas.  Classes start on Aug 20.

ETA: Dietrich has registered at Georgia Tech.  They also start on Aug 20.

[Froback]

Eibner has registered at Arkansas.  Classes start on Aug 20.

ETA: Dietrich has registered at Georgia Tech.  They also start on Aug 20.

It only matters when they actually attend though right?  So D-Day is Aug 20 for both players at this point... the fact that they registered is not good news though.

[Jacksonian]

It only matters when they actually attend though right?  So D-Day is Aug 20 for both players at this point... the fact that they registered is not good news though.

Well, if I weren't an idiot I'd have mentioned that Aug 20 is irrelevant.  They have to sign by Aug 15.  9 days and counting.

[Froback]

Well, if I weren't an idiot I'd have mentioned that Aug 20 is irrelevant.  They have to sign by Aug 15.  9 days and counting.

You and me both then.  I forgot about that new rule... still not looking good that it is taking this long.

[CarolinaStro]

Eibner has registered at Arkansas.  Classes start on Aug 20.

ETA: Dietrich has registered at Georgia Tech.  They also start on Aug 20.

I understand teams get back their 1st round picks next year if unsigned.  Does that apply to other rounds?  Do we get a 2nd and 3rd round pick next year if things remain unchanged?

[Jacksonian]

I understand teams get back their 1st round picks next year if unsigned.  Does that apply to other rounds?  Do we get a 2nd and 3rd round pick next year if things remain unchanged?

Unresearched: I believe the Astros get a compensation pick for Dietrich in the 3rd round.  4th round (Eibner) and on, no.  I'm not sure if the 3rd round compensation is in the 3rd round supplemental or near where the Astros selected this year.

[Duman]

I understand teams get back their 1st round picks next year if unsigned.  Does that apply to other rounds?  Do we get a 2nd and 3rd round pick next year if things remain unchanged?

Here is what Baseball America says:

If a team doesn't sign a pick in the first or second round, it gets a pick in essentially the same slot in the next draft. Previously, unsigned first-rounders merited a pick at the end of the supplemental first round. Unsigned picks beyond that drew no compensation. So if the Pirates didn't sign the No. 4 pick this year, they would get a pick just after No. 4 next year (which would be labeled as 4-A).

Unsigned third-round picks will merit a supplemental pick between the third and fourth rounds next year. The hope from MLB's perspective is that teams will be more willing to walk away from a draft pick (and exorbitant bonus) if they know they will get an equivalent pick the next year.

Doesn't look like anything for 4th round.

[Jacksonian]

Eibner has registered at Arkansas.  Classes start on Aug 20.

ETA: Dietrich has registered at Georgia Tech.  They also start on Aug 20.

Had not heard anything about this:

"The holdup with their first pick, third-rounder Dietrich, was due mostly to injury. Dietrich fell up the stairs at a friend's house a few weeks ago and dislocated his left (non-throwing) shoulder. The injury required surgery."

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070806&content_id=2133561&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

They are waiting for info from the doctor to be sure Dietrich can recover 100%.  That discussion is supposedly happening now.

[Froback]

While I can visualize falling up the stairs, just hearing that in your head makes me go "Huh?!?!".

[MusicMan]

Had not heard anything about this:

"The holdup with their first pick, third-rounder Dietrich, was due mostly to injury. Dietrich fell up the stairs at a friend's house a few weeks ago and dislocated his left (non-throwing) shoulder. The injury required surgery."

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070806&content_id=2133561&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

They are waiting for info from the doctor to be sure Dietrich can recover 100%.  That discussion is supposedly happening now.

Let's face it... of anyone in the organization, wouldn't you have bet on Berkman to hurt himself this way?

[Duman]

Marques Williams is signed.  He is on the Greeneville roster today.

[Duman]

Marques Williams is signed.  He is on the Greeneville roster today.

He is not on the local roster, only the web roster.  I would be surprised if he showed up this late in the season.

[Froback]

Anyone hear if the Aug 15 deadline is a noon thing or a 11:59PM thing?

[rgs]

I think I read it was 12 midnight Eastern Time.

[Mike S]

Anyone have an update on either Dietrich or Eibner (or both)?  Been checking periodically throughout the day and so far haven't seen anything.

[Jacksonian]

Anyone have an update on either Dietrich or Eibner (or both)?  Been checking periodically throughout the day and so far haven't seen anything.

Haven't heard.  This late in the day, it's most likely that astros.com or the chron (if they're paying attention) will be the first to report.  Dietrich being a third rounder will more than likely be an afterthought at BAonline.

[Moose Marathon]

I was just glancing over at BA and it looks like a bunch of guys are signing for way over slot. For instance Bradley Suttle (longhorn) was picked in the fourth round signed with a 1.3 million dollar bonus. Taylor Grote (longhorn commit) who was selected in the 8th round signed with a 250,000 bonus.

In contrast I heard Purpura say something along the lines of "the offers on the table were with in slot." I would be curious to know where we actually we are with Dietrich & Eibner. I guess the truth never really comes out in these situations. They could be asking for 2 or 3 million I guess?

I also saw on BA, that out of all the draft picks in the first five rounds that only 23 players have yet to come to terms. Considering we only had three picks in the first five rounds in the first place, I will be somewhat disappointed if we are not able to come to terms with Dietrich & Eibner. 

So that means that 87% of the players selected in the first five rounds have signed so far and we only have one player so far to show for it. Mose people on this board have forgot more about baseball than I will ever know, but this just seems like a tough pill to swallow considering we only had three picks in the first place.

There are three hours left, so hopefully they can get something worked out.

Ok so there is basically an hour left and three more players in the first five rounds have signed bumping up the percentage of players signed to 89% with just a handful of guys left on the fence. Dietrich and Eibner being 2 of them.

[Moose Marathon]

The Orioles just signed their "5th round selection" Jake Arrieta to a 1.1 million bonus.

90% of the players selected in the first five rounds have now signed.

[Jacksonian]

From Footer:

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070815&content_id=2150750&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

"In other words, Dietrich and Eibner may be third-and fourth-round picks, but because they were the Astros' first and second selections, the players are likely seeking first- and second-round money."

Dietrich was never considered a first round caliber talent.  I've heard 3rd round was the best he was looking at prior to the draft.  Eibner was a surprise at 4.

The article also mentions the Astros offered 3rd and 4th round level money respectively.

If all of this is accurate then IMO Dietrich made a huge mistake and got bad advise.  It's against big odds that he'll be drafted even higher coming out of Georgia Tech as a junior in the 2010 draft.  In the meantime ~ $300,000 and guaranteed college scholarship money goes bye-bye, not to mention the opportunity to advance quickly through the Astros system.

[juliogotay]

Fuck these little twerps. If this is true, I don't want these whiney brats on my team or taking up space in the minors. They need college and I hope they take some math classes.

[Bonomaniac]

but shouldn't the Astros have done whatever it took to sign these guys?   seems like Uncle Drayton passing on talent for a few dollars in his wallet yet again!   

[Navin R Johnson]

but shouldn't the Astros have done whatever it took to sign these guys?   seems like Uncle Drayton passing on talent for a few dollars in his wallet yet again!   

Or at the very least drafted kids who were more likely to sign.    Fucking ridiculous, with as thin as the AStros system is, that they would whiff on their top 2 picks.   

[juliogotay]

Read the quotes from Dietrich after he was drafted. 

I'm thrilled," Dietrich said. "Wow. It's an amazing feeling. I knew as soon as I stepped in the ballpark last week at the workout it was the right place for me."

Somebody got to this kid and tainted the well. Most likely a dipshit agent but possibly a greedy parent. Third round slotting $$ for a third round pick is fair.

Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

As for the Woodlands pitcher, he had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to play for his hometown team. I hope he enjoys the splendors of NE Arkansas.

I guarantee the Astros had vibes from these kids that they were signable. It just broke down over greed.

[Hornstros]

As for the Woodlands pitcher, he had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to play for his hometown team. I hope he enjoys the splendors of NE Arkansas.

Didn't Eibner just move to TX recently?  I'm not sure how much emotion he has got attached to the Stros if that be the case. 

[Duman]

Or at the very least drafted kids who were more likely to sign.    Fucking ridiculous, with as thin as the AStros system is, that they would whiff on their top 2 picks.   

Reality check.  Our true top to picks this year were:

Round 1: Carlos Lee who we now have through 2012, Drayton the tightwad shelled out over a $100,000,000.  A pretty sure thing, compared to the Astros' track record with first rounders. 

Round 2: Woody Williams who has pitched adequately this year and he have him for one more.  I might have wanted more value than this for my second round pick, but this is what they got.

So we lost our 3rd & 4th round picks that if they were Troy Patton caliber (which by all accounts they were not) would be atleast 4 years from even getting a sniff at the majors. 

Uncle D had shown his willingness to open the wallet when it is warranted recently both with draft picks and with free agents.  This is not the end of the world.  We will get the third round draft pick back in a supplemental round next year.  Which may work out better because the common belief was that this was a down year for talent in the draft.  We might be able to obtain a better talent for less $. 

As for the rest of the picks, lets give them some time to develop.

[Jacksonian]

As for the rest of the picks, lets give them some time to develop.

I am very intrigued by a number of the pitchers at Greeneville.  Also, a couple of the hitters at Tri-City could have a future.

[Taras Bulba]

Reality check.  Our true top to picks this year were:

Round 1: Carlos Lee who we now have through 2012, Drayton the tightwad shelled out over a $100,000,000.  A pretty sure thing, compared to the Astros' track record with first rounders. 

Round 2: Woody Williams who has pitched adequately this year and he have him for one more.  I might have wanted more value than this for my second round pick, but this is what they got.

So we lost our 3rd & 4th round picks that if they were Troy Patton caliber (which by all accounts they were not) would be atleast 4 years from even getting a sniff at the majors. 

Uncle D had shown his willingness to open the wallet when it is warranted recently both with draft picks and with free agents.  This is not the end of the world.  We will get the third round draft pick back in a supplemental round next year.  Which may work out better because the common belief was that this was a down year for talent in the draft.  We might be able to obtain a better talent for less $. 

As for the rest of the picks, lets give them some time to develop.

Appreciate the post.  Very thoughtful analysis.

[Navin R Johnson]

Never said Drayton is cheap.  Lee was certainly more than worth a first round pick.

That being said, signability is a huge piece of the draft.  Purpura has commented often on how important that it is, and has used it as a reason to be weary of drafting HS players.    If these two kids just totally bamboozled the Astros on their interest in signing, then shame on them.     

[Jacksonian]

Never said Drayton is cheap.  Lee was certainly more than worth a first round pick.

That being said, signability is a huge piece of the draft.  Purpura has commented often on how important that it is, and has used it as a reason to be weary of drafting HS players.    If these two kids just totally bamboozled the Astros on their interest in signing, then shame on them.     

I don't think it was quite like that.  I believe prior to the draft they both indicated they'd be willing to sign for something close to round money.  Once drafted their "advisors" had a look at what the Astros draft looked like and decided it would be best to try to hold the Astros over a barrel for lack of a 1st and 2nd round pick.  Bad advise = no money and an increased risk of never being a pro player.

[Mike S]

Jim Callis at BA is listing the Astros as one of losers in this year's draft...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=228

Astros & Angels: Houston had no first- or second-round pick, then failed to sign its third- and fourth-round picks. Say hello to Collin DeLome, Astros fans, your top draft pick, a solid but not spectacular player. A thin farm system gets little help. The Angels, always willing to take a gamble in the draft, came away empty-handed this year on Matt Harvey, their highest-ceiling pick, in the third round, and didn’t sign hard-throwing Utah prep lefty Tanner Robles (14th round).

While I obviously would've preferred that Houston signed both Dietrich and Eibner, this strikes me as a rather rudimentary analysis.  Neither player was considered a 1st Rounder (as others have stated), and the Astros have a history of success with later picks.  As such, I've got no problem with the stance they took in this situation. 

[Jacksonian]

Jim Callis at BA is listing the Astros as one of losers in this year's draft...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=228

While I obviously would've preferred that Houston signed both Dietrich and Eibner, this strikes me as a rather rudimentary analysis.  Neither player was considered a 1st Rounder (as others have stated), and the Astros have a history of success with later picks.  As such, I've got no problem with the stance they took in this situation. 

It's knee jerk.  That's what they do, badly, IMO.  This is the worst part of their coverage.

[Duman]

Jim Callis at BA is listing the Astros as one of losers in this year's draft...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=228

While I obviously would've preferred that Houston signed both Dietrich and Eibner, this strikes me as a rather rudimentary analysis.  Neither player was considered a 1st Rounder (as others have stated), and the Astros have a history of success with later picks.  As such, I've got no problem with the stance they took in this situation. 

I agree on the late round draft success.  I follow the guys who come through Greeneville closer than others.  This year, we have had guys make it to RR.  Here are the guys and how they were obtained:

Gutierrez - NDFA
Patton - 9th round 2004
Torbert - 17th round 2004
Towles - 20th round 2004

Only two guys drafted higher than Patton have made it to the AAA or higher (Pence & Zobrist).  I don't know whether to celebrate the ability to find diamonds in the rough or to bemoan the lack of strong early round draft picks.

[stubbyc]

It's knee jerk.  That's what they do, badly, IMO.  This is the worst part of their coverage.

How could the Astros not be one of the losers of the draft? Do you think the Astros are pleased that they came away without signing a guy in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round along with not signing the highest upside guy in the 13th round? This draft looks like a total disaster at this point. Who's going to play for Lexington next season?

[Mike S]

Patton I'd put an asterisk next to as he fell to signability concerns, if I remember correctly.  But, Torbert and Towles, absolutely.

In fact, I remember having a running joke with Michael N for several years about paying attention to who the Astros' 20th Round selection would be (e.g. Roy Oswalt).  I love the fact that the team drafts these guys, but when I look back on early round picks like Rosamund, Stiehl, Grigsby, etc....  Uggghhh.

[JimR]

but shouldn't the Astros have done whatever it took to sign these guys?   seems like Uncle Drayton passing on talent for a few dollars in his wallet yet again!   

no

[Jacksonian]

How could the Astros not be one of the losers of the draft? Do you think the Astros are pleased that they came away without signing a guy in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round along with not signing the highest upside guy in the 13th round? This draft looks like a total disaster at this point. Who's going to play for Lexington next season?

It could turn out to be a terrible draft.  Or maybe not.  We won't know for years.

My criticism of BA's rankings, etc is that it's their opinion.  They're sportswriters, not scouts or GMs.  What they think is irrelevant.  But, it is knee jerk because we don't know how each player is going to turn out.  Baseball development is a crapshoot.  To judge a draft the same year it's done is meaningless and an exercise in futility.

Lexington will be populated by a few hold overs from this year, most of the Tri-City roster, a few from Greeneville, and a FA signee or two.

[Duman]

How could the Astros not be one of the losers of the draft? Do you think the Astros are pleased that they came away without signing a guy in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round along with not signing the highest upside guy in the 13th round? This draft looks like a total disaster at this point. Who's going to play for Lexington next season?

Go back and read my post earlier.  We got a great deal for our 1st round pick and an okay deal for our second.  It is not the end of the world. 

As for who will pay at Lexington next year:  Quit being chicken little.  None of the high draft pick you mentioned (3,4,13) would be in the mix for Lexington having missed all the short season ball this season.

[Mike S]

It could turn out to be a terrible draft.  Or maybe not.  We won't know for years.

My criticism of BA's rankings, etc is that it's their opinion.  They're sportswriters, not scouts or GMs.  What they think is irrelevant.  But, it is knee jerk because we don't know how each player is going to turn out.  Baseball development is a crapshoot.  To judge a draft the same year it's done is meaningless and an exercise in futility.

Lexington will be populated by a few hold overs from this year, most of the Tri-City roster, a few from Greeneville, and a FA signee or two.

If you pitted BA against a witch doctor in Papua New Guinea, I wouldn't be surprised if the witch doctor was more accurate in projecting which prospects would play in the majors.

[Moose Marathon]

I get the whole Carlos Lee thing. I am thankful that we signed him.

However, there were 154 players selected in the first 4 rounds. Of those 154 players, 144 of them signed. With 94% of all players in the first four rounds signing, why do we not have anything to show for it? 94 freaking percent!!!!!!

Only 10 players did not sign and two of them were ours. Like I stated in my posts last night, there are many on here that know way more about baseball than I. I can admit that. However I am a businessman and I no how to analyze business decisions with the best of them. This is unacceptable period. You can not spin this like some liberal CNN whack job. This is not good. It's not the end of the world, but not good.

It was stated many times before the draft by Pupura that we would be able to take some risks early on because of the money we would gain by not getting a 1 or a 2. If all we offered was slot, then I am disappointed. There are multiple examples given in my posts last night of players drafted in rounds 4 and up who got way above slot.

It amazes me that there are such knowledgeable members on this board, who day in and day out provide so much insight and valuable information about the Astros and their farm system. However, when somebody says anything negative about the Astros management or one of its players in the organization, that poster is attacked like he is some kind of idiot.

[Jacksonian]

I get the whole Carlos Lee thing. I am thankful that we signed him.

However, there were 154 players selected in the first 4 rounds. Of those 154 players, 144 of them signed. With 94% of all players in the first four rounds signing, why do we not have anything to show for it? 94 freaking percent!!!!!!

Only 10 players did not sign and two of them were ours. Like I stated in my posts last night, there are many on here that know way more about baseball than I. I can admit that. However I am a businessman and I no how to analyze business decisions with the best of them. This is unacceptable period. You can not spin this like some liberal CNN whack job. This is not good. It's not the end of the world, but not good.

It was stated many times before the draft by Pupura that we would be able to take some risks early on because of the money we would gain by not getting a 1 or a 2. If all we offered was slot, then I am disappointed. There are multiple examples given in my posts last night of players drafted in rounds 4 and up who got way above slot.

It amazes me that there are such knowledgeable members on this board, who day in and day out provide so much insight and valuable information about the Astros and their farm system. However, when somebody says anything negative about the Astros management or one of its players in the organization, that poster is attacked like he is some kind of idiot.

In these two particular players' cases the reported 1st and 2nd round money was unjustified.  I suspect Purp actually offered top of their respective round money rather than the specific slot money mlb suggested.  Not a single team thought Dietrich or Eibner were worth taking in the first and second round despite neither being signability risks going into the draft.  As a business man you're not going to pay a potential employee 2 or 3 times what you think he's worth just to have him on board.  With Jones however, if his real asking price was equivalent to end of the first round or supplemental first round money then the Astros should have bit, IMO.  He definitely slid on signability from about that range.

[pravata]

I get the whole Carlos Lee thing. I am thankful that we signed him.

However, there were 154 players selected in the first 4 rounds. Of those 154 players, 144 of them signed. With 94% of all players in the first four rounds signing, why do we not have anything to show for it? 94 freaking percent!!!!!!

Only 10 players did not sign and two of them were ours. Like I stated in my posts last night, there are many on here that know way more about baseball than I. I can admit that. However I am a businessman and I no how to analyze business decisions with the best of them. This is unacceptable period. You can not spin this like some liberal CNN whack job. This is not good. It's not the end of the world, but not good.

It was stated many times before the draft by Pupura that we would be able to take some risks early on because of the money we would gain by not getting a 1 or a 2. If all we offered was slot, then I am disappointed. There are multiple examples given in my posts last night of players drafted in rounds 4 and up who got way above slot.

It amazes me that there are such knowledgeable members on this board, who day in and day out provide so much insight and valuable information about the Astros and their farm system. However, when somebody says anything negative about the Astros management or one of its players in the organization, that poster is attacked like he is some kind of idiot.

Right, and how many of those signings got out of their slot money?  It's more complicated than you think Link The guys who follow this every day know what's going on, you should give them some credit.

[Duman]

I get the whole Carlos Lee thing. I am thankful that we signed him.

However, there were 154 players selected in the first 4 rounds. Of those 154 players, 144 of them signed. With 94% of all players in the first four rounds signing, why do we not have anything to show for it? 94 freaking percent!!!!!!

Only 10 players did not sign and two of them were ours. Like I stated in my posts last night, there are many on here that know way more about baseball than I. I can admit that. However I am a businessman and I no how to analyze business decisions with the best of them. This is unacceptable period. You can not spin this like some liberal CNN whack job. This is not good. It's not the end of the world, but not good.

It was stated many times before the draft by Pupura that we would be able to take some risks early on because of the money we would gain by not getting a 1 or a 2. If all we offered was slot, then I am disappointed. There are multiple examples given in my posts last night of players drafted in rounds 4 and up who got way above slot.

It amazes me that there are such knowledgeable members on this board, who day in and day out provide so much insight and valuable information about the Astros and their farm system. However, when somebody says anything negative about the Astros management or one of its players in the organization, that poster is attacked like he is some kind of idiot.

There is much more to a draft than signing or not signing players.  In 2002, we signed 21 of the top 23 picks and we re drafted one of those we missed the 2 years later (he fell 32 rounds by the way and lasted one year of rookie ball before being released).   So by your business plan, that is a successful draft. 

5 years is when you evaluate drafts.  I know there are plans for a thorough analysis of this draft in the off season but so far, only one player signed in this draft is in the bigs. Mark McClamore.  One pick was traded away in the Jennings deal (Talbot).  Of the other 20 signed, only Shortell (A+), McClemore (HOU), Douglass (AAA), Mackor (AA), Gothreaux (AAA).  Further down the list you find a DFE who later signed Ryan McKeller who is still in the org at Salem.  That is it.  Only 6 players are still in the org 5 years later.  Only one has made it to the show.  Does that look like success?  They signed em?

[At Ease]

It could turn out to be a terrible draft.  Or maybe not.  We won't know for years.

My criticism of BA's rankings, etc is that it's their opinion.  They're sportswriters, not scouts or GMs.  What they think is irrelevant.  But, it is knee jerk because we don't know how each player is going to turn out.  Baseball development is a crapshoot.  To judge a draft the same year it's done is meaningless and an exercise in futility.

Lexington will be populated by a few hold overs from this year, most of the Tri-City roster, a few from Greeneville, and a FA signee or two.

Your criticism is what strikes me as knee jerk.  BA relies heavily on input from scouts, from minor league and collegiate coaches, and team management, so it's silly to just write it off as 'their opinion'.  I'm also pretty darn sure they're aware that the true worth of a draft won't reveal itself until 4-5 years later.. but that hardly prohibits one from evaluating on the work to date.  The point of the draft is to add as much talent to your system as you can, and hope it pans out.  The Astros added the least amount of talent to their system than any other team.  They have had the worst draft so far.

[Froback]

I agree with your point, but Talbot left in the Huff deal, not Jennings.

But I agree 100% with your point.

[Duman]

Thanks for catching that

[Froback]

Your criticism is what strikes me as knee jerk.  BA relies heavily on input from scouts, from minor league and collegiate coaches, and team management, so it's silly to just write it off as 'their opinion'.  I'm also pretty darn sure they're aware that the true worth of a draft won't reveal itself until 4-5 years later.. but that hardly prohibits one from evaluating on the work to date.  The point of the draft is to add as much talent to your system as you can, and hope it pans out.  The Astros added the least amount of talent to their system than any other team.  They have had the worst draft so far.

You are correct in your statement about how they look so far, if you are using stats as a judging point.
They are the worst minor league club recordwise (Greeneville) and another one that is not doing great (Tri-City).

However, the fact that you have no idea if these guys are showing signs of future success in their struggles to adjust to pro-ball when looking at statistics.  Look at Einertson.  He was a man among boys his first year and totally tanked the next.  The reverse can happen too, look at Brad James.

BA is very good at reporting info from "inside" sources and scouts and such.  However if you are going to consider yourself to be a true source of baseball insight, you need to be more careful in your opinions you state.  I pay for insider access to BA, so I know they have some good info there.  However you have to wade through a ton a crap to find it.  More often than not, they are just sports writers giving their opinions on things.... and we all know how "informative" that can be sometimes from people like Justice and JdJO.

Just because they have access to all that info, doesn't mean they are qualified to judge this stuff any better than you or I.

AND because they cover ALL of baseball, they plain don't have the time to look into any individual club at any kind of depth, thus why they continue to have all those "inside" sources.  There are people here on this site, that all they do is study the Astros minor league system.  Heck several even attend most if not all those games of a particular club.  THOSE people are likely to have a more "informed" opinion to offer on the state of the Astros farm system.

Oh and btw, it is not really that good at this time.  But to judge a draft this soon, destroys alot of credibility because as Jacksonian pointed out, it is a crap-shoot.  Judge it 5 years later, when people bloom or wilt as they develop.

THAT is what the people here are saying.  BA offers you an opinion because that gets you to read their stuff.  Thus makes them money.  So they pump something out that is little more than what you can read from Dick Justice each day.  Even HE occasionally (read very rarely) has some nuggets of value too.

[Jacksonian]

Your criticism is what strikes me as knee jerk.  BA relies heavily on input from scouts, from minor league and collegiate coaches, and team management, so it's silly to just write it off as 'their opinion'.  I'm also pretty darn sure they're aware that the true worth of a draft won't reveal itself until 4-5 years later.. but that hardly prohibits one from evaluating on the work to date.  The point of the draft is to add as much talent to your system as you can, and hope it pans out.  The Astros added the least amount of talent to their system than any other team.  They have had the worst draft so far.

My criticism might be knee jerk if Callis hadn't told me, via email, that some of their rankings, like the draft are their own opinions.  They use their own eyes and ears as well as professionals.  Nobody gets the volume of material they do.  They do provide factual information about potential draftees.  But, in draft rankings more than anything else they do, it's their opinion based mostly on their own conclusions even when those conclusions differ from scouts, coaches...

Note that in many of their rankings they will tell you it's based on coaches in the league or scouts from a region...  But not their draft rankings.  How did they assess the Astros 02 draft?

[Moose Marathon]

There is much more to a draft than signing or not signing players.  In 2002, we signed 21 of the top 23 picks and we re drafted one of those we missed the 2 years later (he fell 32 rounds by the way and lasted one year of rookie ball before being released).   So by your business plan, that is a successful draft. 

5 years is when you evaluate drafts.  I know there are plans for a thorough analysis of this draft in the off season but so far, only one player signed in this draft is in the bigs. Mark McClamore.  One pick was traded away in the Jennings deal (Talbot).  Of the other 20 signed, only Shortell (A+), McClemore (HOU), Douglass (AAA), Mackor (AA), Gothreaux (AAA).  Further down the list you find a DFE who later signed Ryan McKeller who is still in the org at Salem.  That is it.  Only 6 players are still in the org 5 years later.  Only one has made it to the show.  Does that look like success?  They signed em?

Your breaking up my post into pieces instead of reading it as one.

[Moose Marathon]

In these two particular players' cases the reported 1st and 2nd round money was unjustified.  I suspect Purp actually offered top of their respective round money rather than the specific slot money mlb suggested.  Not a single team thought Dietrich or Eibner were worth taking in the first and second round despite neither being signability risks going into the draft.  As a business man you're not going to pay a potential employee 2 or 3 times what you think he's worth just to have him on board.  With Jones however, if his real asking price was equivalent to end of the first round or supplemental first round money then the Astros should have bit, IMO.  He definitely slid on signability from about that range.

This is more in line with what I meant. It is not so much about Eibner or Dietrich or round 1, 2, 3, 4.

Maybe we should have went after Jones more.

Maybe we should have went after another signability risk since we did not have a 1 or a 2.

Maybe we need to learn to negotiate better.

[Froback]

Paying $100 for a $20 pair of jeans isn't good negotiating, even if they were being sold for $200.

[Jacksonian]

This is more in line with what I meant. It is not so much about Eibner or Dietrich or round 1, 2, 3, 4.

Maybe we should have went after Jones more.

Maybe we should have went after another signability risk since we did not have a 1 or a 2.

Maybe we need to learn to negotiate better.

Torrence, Greenwalt, Bono, Dinelli, and Dixon were no guarantee to sign when drafted.

[Jacksonian]

Maybe we need to learn to negotiate better.

As regards Dietrich and Eibner, I've just gotten another source (outside the Astros) to confirm they were demanding first and second round money respectively.  His conclusion:  same as everyone else.  They were poorly advised and will probably regret it.  They were the unreasonable negotiators.

[Moose Marathon]

As regards Dietrich and Eibner, I've just gotten another source (outside the Astros) to confirm they were demanding first and second round money respectively.  His conclusion:  same as everyone else.  They were poorly advised and will probably regret it.  They were the unreasonable negotiators.

Thanks,

I was curious as to the specifics

[Jacksonian]

Thanks,

I was curious as to the specifics

I'm still trying to get more info on Jones as well.

[Moose Marathon]

Paying $100 for a $20 pair of jeans isn't good negotiating, even if they were being sold for $200.

depends on if you want to walk around with your pants off or not.

you can bitch about paying too much for gas all you want, are you going to just sit around your house all day and not go anywhere. Or are you going to suck it up, fill your tank up with overpriced gas, and get on with things.

[Moose Marathon]

I'm still trying to get more info on Jones as well.

would be really interested in that as well. Some were saying 1mil others were saying 2mil

[Duman]

would be really interested in that as well. Some were saying 1mil others were saying 2mil

I heard two million.  The source was a AL scout based who lives in the Baton Rouge area.

[Froback]

depends on if you want to walk around with your pants off or not.

you can bitch about paying too much for gas all you want, are you going to just sit around your house all day and not go anywhere. Or are you going to suck it up, fill your tank up with overpriced gas, and get on with things.

Ahh, but here is the rub, they didn't HAVE to pay.  They can go on and still be successful without having to pay.  Sure they MIGHT be a bit more successful, but to enough to pay the price they were asking.

The better analogy would be, go to Wal-Mart and pay $20 for a pair of jeans that may not last as long, but still get the job done and you spend the other $80 on getting a few shirts while you are at it.

[Jacksonian]

depends on if you want to walk around with your pants off or not.

you can bitch about paying too much for gas all you want, are you going to just sit around your house all day and not go anywhere. Or are you going to suck it up, fill your tank up with overpriced gas, and get on with things.

Or wait; then offer arb to Jennings, Lamb, and Loretta knowing full well they won't accept in order to keep their FA options open then stock up on about 8 first and second rounders next spring to make up for the shortfall this year.

[JGrave]

Kevin Bass is on 610 right now and he says he "thinks" they offered Eibner below where he was slotted.

[Navin R Johnson]

As regards Dietrich and Eibner, I've just gotten another source (outside the Astros) to confirm they were demanding first and second round money respectively.  His conclusion:  same as everyone else.  They were poorly advised and will probably regret it.  They were the unreasonable negotiators.

Poorly advised?   Do you know the kids?   Maybe the thought of playing College baseball was much more appealing to them then riding around in buses playing in middle of nowhere towns for 6 straight months for the next three years.

If Eibner was getting offered "slot" money, then that means he was going to get 150K, after taxes, a new car a couple other items, he ends up with 60-70K in the bank.  Big Whoop.

He can go to college, get three years worth of his degree out of the way, then go right back into the draft.   The slots just keep going up, if he performs at GT, he will get just as much if not more money in 3 years.   

If a kid really wants to play college ball, I would steer him that way too, unless he was getting some sort of really huge bonus, 7 figure type numbers.   That isn’t “bad advice” unless your only concern is the Astros.

[Mike S]

Or wait; then offer arb to Jennings, Lamb, and Loretta knowing full well they won't accept in order to keep their FA options open then stock up on about 8 first and second rounders next spring to make up for the shortfall this year.

As well as the additional third rounder for not signing Dietrich this year.  I'll take another third rounder in what is supposed to be a better draft next year eight days a week.

[stubbyc]

It could turn out to be a terrible draft.  Or maybe not.  We won't know for years.

My criticism of BA's rankings, etc is that it's their opinion.  They're sportswriters, not scouts or GMs.  What they think is irrelevant.  But, it is knee jerk because we don't know how each player is going to turn out.  Baseball development is a crapshoot.  To judge a draft the same year it's done is meaningless and an exercise in futility.

Lexington will be populated by a few hold overs from this year, most of the Tri-City roster, a few from Greeneville, and a FA signee or two.

You're right, we won't know for several years. I still can't imagine the Astros are too enthusiastic about the talent they have added through this year's draft. Highest bonus given out was 123,000.

The Tri-City and Greenville rosters are both extremely thin as it is.

[Jacksonian]

Poorly advised?   Do you know the kids?   Maybe the thought of playing College baseball was much more appealing to them then riding around in buses playing in middle of nowhere towns for 6 straight months for the next three years.

If Eibner was getting offered "slot" money, then that means he was going to get ~150K, after taxes, a new car a couple other items, he ends up with 30-50K in the bank.  Big Whoop.

He can go to college, get three years worth of his degree out of the way, then go right back into the draft.   The slots just keep going up, if he performs at GT, he will get just as much if not more money in 3 years.   

If a kid really wants to play college ball, I would steer him that way too, unless he was getting some sort of really huge bonus, 7 figure type numbers.   That isn’t “bad advice” unless your only concern is the Astros.

Implied was that they wanted to go pro, were playing chicken with the Astros, thought the Astros would blink, and when they didn't were forced to go to their second choice.  Also implied is that if Dietrich and Eibner had been selected by teams with a first and second round pick they would have been willing to sign for ~ slot money.  They thought they could leverage the Astros lack of picks and were wrong.

They weren't debating whether to sign or go to college.  The kid that did that was Bettis and chose Texas Tech.

And, that's a big if as far as performing well enough 3 or 4 years from now to get drafted that high again.

I will agree it's not a big for Eibner as for Dietrich.

[Jacksonian]

You're right, we won't know for several years. I still can't imagine the Astros are too enthusiastic about the talent they have added through this year's draft. Highest bonus given out was 123,000.

The Tri-City and Greenville rosters are both extremely thin as it is.

I think they like the arms.  Several hard throwers to mold.

As for position players at Greeneville I tend to agree, though Pestana and Rosario may have something.  Greeneville has a number of raw but very interesting arms.

Tri-City seems to be thin in pitching, esp hard throwers.  They've got a couple of hitters who could go a long way.

But, juneberno.

[Navin R Johnson]

So if they bomb out in three years, they have been going to college for the last three years, and just finish up school and go to work like everyone else in the working world.   If they go to the minors and bomb out, you can almost guarantee that the 150 or 250K they were given three years prior is long long gone, and they start out college as a 23 year old freshman.

Do you have links to them saying they didnt intend on going to college and wanted to go pro?   

[Jacksonian]

So if they bomb out in three years, they have been going to college for the last three years, and just finish up school and go to work like everyone else in the working world.   If they go to the minors and bomb out, you can almost guarantee that the 150 or 250K they were given three years prior is long long gone, and they start out college as a 23 year old freshman.

Do you have links to them saying they didnt intend on going to college and wanted to go pro?   

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070815&content_id=2150750&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

"All indications were that they wanted to play."

There are other links and quotes scattered about in this thread with things Dietrich, especially, has said.

These weren't "gotta have 'em" guys.  Where they were taken was as high as anyone had them.  The Astros selected them because they believed they were signable for ~ slot money.  These two aren't in the Jones and Torrence class of high school player.

Also, if they wanted to go to college this fall, they could have, and it would have been paid for by mlb.

[Navin R Johnson]

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070815&content_id=2150750&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

"All indications were that they wanted to play."

There are other links and quotes scattered about in this thread with things Dietrich, especially, has said.

These weren't "gotta have 'em" guys.  Where they were taken was as high as anyone had them.  The Astros selected them because they believed they were signable for ~ slot money.  These two aren't in the Jones and Torrence class of high school player.

Also, if they wanted to go to college this fall, they could have, and it would have been paid for by mlb.

So the Astros reached for players that they thought would be easy signs...and they couldn't get them signed.   How does the saying go; if it wasnt for bad luck...

That being said, I cant blame a kid/or adviser for deciding to turn down 150K or even 200K to go play college ball, it is a hell of a lot more fun than the low minors.   And if you are really good enough, the money will still be there.

[Jacksonian]

So the Astros reached for players that they thought would be easy signs...and they couldn't get them signed.   How does the saying go; if it wasnt for bad luck...

That being said, I cant blame a kid/or adviser for deciding to turn down 150K or even 200K to go play college ball, it is a hell of a lot more fun than the low minors.   And if you are really good enough, the money will still be there.

Eibner might have been a reach, but I believe Dietrich would have gone by early 4th if the Astros hadn't taken him.

My primary concern would be injury.  Dietrich's already had surgury from a freak accident this summer.  Also, 18 year olds delude themselves about their abilities in all things all the time. 

Eibner turning it down is more understandable to me than Dietrich.  Derek turned down about $300,000 plus guaranteed college tuition.  If he thinks he's that good all he has to do is look at Einertson and Koby.  After 1 year of short season ball they were in Lex when their college class was finishing their freshman year.  If Dietrich really was that good he'd be 1 or 1 1/2 years ahead in the minors than where he'll be if he comes out of college as a junior.  Look at Patton.  This draft class would have been his junior year of college.  He'd be in Tri-City rather than Round Rock this summer.

[Navin R Johnson]

Eibner turning it down is more understandable to me than Dietrich.  Derek turned down about $300,000 plus guaranteed college tuition.  If he thinks he's that good all he has to do is look at Einertson and Koby.  After 1 year of short season ball they were in Lex when their college class was finishing their freshman year.  If Dietrich really was that good he'd be 1 or 1 1/2 years ahead in the minors than where he'll be if he comes out of college as a junior.  Look at Patton.  This draft class would have been his junior year of college.  He'd be in Tri-City rather than Round Rock this summer.

300K?   Is that what you heard they were offering?

As for being in Round Rock by your "junior" year, that is pretty rare in this organization, isnt it?   

As for Koby, I have a friend who is an Astros scout, he thought Koby was terrible.   Not sure how the Organization as a whole feels about him, but was his promotion based on need (or name) or on merit?    I havent spoke with him about Koby since he was drafted. 

[Froback]

300K?   Is that what you heard they were offering?

I posted slot values here: http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=102446.msg148556#msg148556

[Jacksonian]

As for being in Round Rock by your "junior" year, that is pretty rare in this organization, isnt it?   

Of course it's rare.  But, high school kids drafted as high as Dietrich who think they deserve 1st round bonus money believe they are rare.  I have no doubt he believes he could do it.

[Navin R Johnson]

Of course it's rare.  But, high school kids drafted as high as Dietrich who think they deserve 1st round bonus money believe they are rare.  I have no doubt he believes he could do it.

I would be curious... here is a free site that lists bonuses.   Do they pretty much jive with BA's?

http://www.angelfire.com/vt/prospectwatch/index20712.html

it goes all the way back to 1999 with the signing bonuses, so if it is relatively accurate it is a nice reference.

http://www.angelfire.com/vt/prospectwatch/index888.html

[Duman]

Last signing? - 33rd rounder Cody Phipps out of Canada is in Greeneville.  He is awaiting his visa and should be playing in the next few days.  He apparently signed a few weeks ago and has been in Greeneville awaiting his visa.

[Jacksonian]

Last signing? - 33rd rounder Cody Phipps out of Canada is in Greeneville.  He is awaiting his visa and should be playing in the next few days.  He apparently signed a few weeks ago and has been in Greeneville awaiting his visa.

A few weeks ago?  When the Astros want to fly under the radar no one does it better.

[Duman]

Apparently no newspapers picked up the press release sent out by his alma mater: Vauxhall Baseball Academy:

The Academy is very proud to have Cody be the 1st ever professionally signed player. Phipps will have Canadian icon – Stubby Clapp as a hitting coach in Greeneville.

[Jacksonian]

would be really interested in that as well. Some were saying 1mil others were saying 2mil

Ok, here's what I've heard.  $2 mil was Jones initial asking price.  Astros said no.  Jones "came down" on his price but was still too high for the Astros.  My understanding is that football was getting in the way.  Jones ability to play overshadowed things a bit.  Essentially the Astros were willing to sign him for 2nd to low 1st supp while allowing him to play.  Jones wanted low 1st.  My feeling is that Jones is going to go with the sport he believes will deliver the biggest payday.