Well, well, well...seems NYC is DQ Country

[Foghorn]

Of course, I'd just as soon argue DQ is cunt, but thats neither here nor there.

I don't blame Roger for going back to the Yanks. He is, and always has been, about the ME.  ANd with the Yankees off to their worst start in forever, Roger gets to play the role he loves best, savior to the biggest media market on Earth.  Jesus is coming to back to the Bronx, healing the sick, giving vision to the blind.

He pitched his ass off for the Astros, gave us everything he had.  Which is good and bad, bcause in addition to an ass load of talent, he also had a raging case of prima donna. 

SO thanks for everything ROger.  You were a key player in the 2004/2005 seasons.  You and RoyO are the all time leaders in Astros playoff victories.  You packed the fans in and gave Drayton a shiny new bauble to play with.  And perhaps now Drayton will allow the Count to go out and get something to kick this team in the ass.  DQ ain't a-comin' boys.  You want to do something you better strap in on tight and get busy.

And Roger, enjoy your time in the sun.  Cuz when Father Time finally catches up, and he will, you'll just be another egotistical asshole driving a burnt orange hummer down I-10.  People like assholes as long as they bring something else to the table. After your elbow goes, all thats left is your sparkling personality. 

Cheers.

[JackAstro]

Perfect. This toes the line between "thanks" and "go fuck yourself" that I've been feeling.

[VirtualBob]

Perfect. This toes the line between "thanks" and "go fuck yourself" that I've been feeling.

I agree.  I have always loved Clemens the baseball player since he regularly graced Disch Falk.  The almost-magical 1986 season still has great memories.  Then his hired-gun prima donna personality became more obvious ... I guess it was there all along, but I was deliberately ignorant.  Leaving for the Jays was hard and going to NYY was almost unforgivable.  Still, I saw him beat Texas in a playoff game in Arlington, and came about as close to rooting for the Yankees as I have ever come.  When he came "home" to Houston, I tried hard to go back to my state of ignorance, but after the way he held up the team last year, it was really tough.  This year I had an odd mixture of hope and dread.  I continue to be a fan, and I'd like him to do well, but I'd also like him to go ahead and book his ticket for Cooperstown after this year and quit dominating the headlines.  I'd really hate to see him hang around one year too long and leave a bitter aftertaste on the field to match his off-field "personality".

[JackAstro]

I agree.  I have always loved Clemens the baseball player since he regularly graced Disch Falk.  The almost-magical 1986 season still has great memories.  Then his hired-gun prima donna personality became more obvious ... I guess it was there all along, but I was deliberately ignorant.  Leaving for the Jays was hard and going to NYY was almost unforgivable.  Still, I saw him beat Texas in a playoff game in Arlington, and came about as close to rooting for the Yankees as I have ever come.  When he came "home" to Houston, I tried hard to go back to my state of ignorance, but after the way he held up the team last year, it was really tough.  This year I had an odd mixture of hope and dread.  I continue to be a fan, and I'd like him to do well, but I'd also like him to go ahead and book his ticket for Cooperstown after this year and quit dominating the headlines.  I'd really hate to see him hang around one year too long and leave a bitter aftertaste on the field to match his off-field "personality".

I guess I can't take it quite that far - when he came to Houston I still thought of him as being a giant prick. I'm glad for the wins and the World Series trip, but no part of me is sad to see him go.

[Foghorn]

Perfect. This toes the line between "thanks" and "go fuck yourself" that I've been feeling.

Not to go all Denny Green, but Clemens is who we thought he was.  Don't ask Satan to the prom and then get upset when he whips out his fire cock and butt rapes you.

Or something.

[Noe]

Not to go all Denny Green, but Clemens is who we thought he was.  Don't ask Satan to the prom and then get upset when he whips out his fire cock and butt rapes you.

Or something.

My wife loves to use the "Don't get upset when the Frankenstein monster you created tears down the village and people come after you with pitch forks and fire!  You built that monster, now live with the consequences."

True, very true.

[WulawHorn]

That is a long saying- I would think she would get tired of it and default to something shorter if she has to tell you that too often.

[JimR]

I agree.  I have always loved Clemens the baseball player since he regularly graced Disch Falk.  The almost-magical 1986 season still has great memories.  Then his hired-gun prima donna personality became more obvious ... I guess it was there all along, but I was deliberately ignorant.  Leaving for the Jays was hard and going to NYY was almost unforgivable.  Still, I saw him beat Texas in a playoff game in Arlington, and came about as close to rooting for the Yankees as I have ever come.  When he came "home" to Houston, I tried hard to go back to my state of ignorance, but after the way he held up the team last year, it was really tough.  This year I had an odd mixture of hope and dread.  I continue to be a fan, and I'd like him to do well, but I'd also like him to go ahead and book his ticket for Cooperstown after this year and quit dominating the headlines.  I'd really hate to see him hang around one year too long and leave a bitter aftertaste on the field to match his off-field "personality".

you are one sick puppy. he was an asshole at UT, too, and Cliff Gustafson told me more than once that he was "gutless." he is universally disliked in UT baseball circles.

[WulawHorn]

I've headd plenty of horns say plenty bad about Clemens. I thought that he had a few supporters/allies in the baseball program.

I'll defer to your knowledge on that one, jim- but I had always heard (from way, way, way outside anyone with decent connections into the baseball program) it was more factional then universal. Wouldn't be surprised though, either way.  He's obviously not persona non-grata around the athletic department as a whole- witness sideline passes for football games etc.

[JimR]

I've headd plenty of horns say plenty bad about Clemens. I thought that he had a few supporters/allies in the baseball program.

I'll defer to your knowledge on that one, jim- but I had always heard (from way, way, way outside anyone with decent connections into the baseball program) it was more factional then universal. Wouldn't be surprised though, either way.  He's obviously not persona non-grata around the athletic department as a whole- witness sideline passes for football games etc.

of course he gets favors. they want his money.

universal in my experience. i have never heard a good word about him. Swindell and Gideon would have killed him and Gustafson over the retired number extortion.

[WulawHorn]

of course he gets favors. they want his money.

universal in my experience. i have never heard a good word about him. Swindell and Gideon would have killed him and Gustafson over the retired number extortion.

That is the part I don't get then-  how did his number get retired. I've heard little about it other than that it pissed a lot of people off- who decided it was ok to do it (I would think that person was a clemens ally) and why did they do it?

[Froback]

That is the part I don't get then-  how did his number get retired. I've heard little about it other than that it pissed a lot of people off- who decided it was ok to do it (I would think that person was a clemens ally) and why did they do it?

Politics is not something D.C. has all to itself.  And Politics and Big Universities function the same in alot of ways, one of the biggest is they will all bend over for money, no matter what the non-financial costs are.

[Noe]

That is the part I don't get then-  how did his number get retired.

Money.  What part don't you get?

[JimR]

That is the part I don't get then-  how did his number get retired. I've heard little about it other than that it pissed a lot of people off- who decided it was ok to do it (I would think that person was a clemens ally) and why did they do it?

he demanded that it be done. Gustafson did it without asking anyone or without telling anyone he was going to do it. Swindell had to be held back from going after Gustafson when it was announced at the Alumni Game. he screamed f-bombs at him while being restrained. the Athletic Department was PISSED and promply enacted a written policy for retiring numbers. just one of several things that led to the dumping of Coach G.

[WulawHorn]

Did Clemens make a big gift to UT when the number was retired?  Does he contribute now?  Did he promise contribuitons in the future if the number was retired?  That's the part that I don't understand

I didn't attend UT until 96 and don't know what was going on before- I want to say that the number was always retired from the first date I ever watched a game at the Disch, but I can't remember for sure if that was the case.  I followed college baseball as a kid in the bay area with Mike Mussina and Jeffrey Hammonds and those Stanford teams that won back to back title in 87 and 88 I believe- but didn't follow college baseball again until I actually went to college in 96. I'm looking for some history here.

[MusicMan]

Don't ask Satan to the prom and then get upset when he whips out his fire cock and butt rapes you.

I need to set up a macro for this.

[WulawHorn]

he demanded that it be done. Gustafson did it without asking anyone or without telling anyone he was going to do it. Swindell had to be held back from going after Gustafson when it was announced at the Alumni Game. he screamed f-bombs at him while being restrained. the Athletic Department was PISSED and promply enacted a written policy for retiring numbers. just one of several things that led to the dumping of Coach G.

Thanks for the back story on that Jim.  Did Coach G like Clemens? All I remember of him was the summer camp scandal that forced him out, and then Augie being savaged for a time for fielding some horrible teams as he was trying to get the program back on track. I was lucky enough to get to go to the college WS the first time Augie took the horns to Omaha- where UT went 2 and Q. I know that didn't placate many fans as Texas was playing small ball while LSU was at the height of their gorrilla ball exploits- and UT just looked small and week compared to the other teams in the field.

Even though it wasn't a great showing, it was so much fun to go- one of my favorite road trips ever related to UT sports and i've probably gone to 50 away games between FB, basketball and baseball (mostly football, but baseball at LSU during Mardi Gras where UT won 2/3 was awesome, as was every trip to Lawrence for Basketball games- even though we were 0-3 when I saw them in person).

[Holly]

of course he gets favors. they want his money.

universal in my experience. i have never heard a good word about him. Swindell and Gideon would have killed him and Gustafson over the retired number extortion.

Did Schiraldi much care?

[JimR]

Did Schiraldi much care?

huh? he did not wear 21. they did.

[JimR]

Did Clemens make a big gift to UT when the number was retired?  Does he contribute now?  Did he promise contribuitons in the future if the number was retired?  That's the part that I don't understand

I didn't attend UT until 96 and don't know what was going on before- I want to say that the number was always retired from the first date I ever watched a game at the Disch, but I can't remember for sure if that was the case.  I followed college baseball as a kid in the bay area with Mike Mussina and Jeffrey Hammonds and those Stanford teams that won back to back title in 87 and 88 I believe- but didn't follow college baseball again until I actually went to college in 96. I'm looking for some history here.

he threatened to never contribute if it was not retired. not the point, but i do not know how much, if any, he has given. for a long time, it was next to nothing.

WTF? history? i told you the entire story.

[Foghorn]

he threatened to never contribute if it was not retired. not the point, but i do not know how much, if any, he has given. for a long time, it was next to nothing.

WTF? history? i told you the entire story.

So clemens wore #21 in 82/83, and Swindell wore it in 84/85/86?  Swindell was the better of the two in college yet Clemens gets the retired jersey because he's an egomanical asshole with a right arm on loan from the gods. 

Perfect.  Just perfect.

Not to get off on a tangent but what was the source of the friction between Shane Reynolds and Gustafson?

[JimR]

Thanks for the back story on that Jim.  Did Coach G like Clemens?

hard to say. Clemens refused to pitch if his arm was sore, and that is why CG called him gutless. i'm sure he liked him when he pitched well. CG was the most single-minded person i ever met, and he was not at all liked by his players even though they respected his coaching greatly.

[Noe]

Not to get off on a tangent but what was the source of the friction between Shane Reynolds and Gustafson?

Overuse and abuse.  Left Reynolds with nothign when he had to pitch in the CWS if I remember correctly.

[JimR]

Overuse and abuse.  Left Reynolds with nothign when he had to pitch in the CWS if I remember correctly.

no. Gustafson did not take Reynolds to Omaha. left him home.

[Foghorn]

no. Gustafson did not take Reynolds to Omaha. left him home.

That'll do it.

Thanks.

[JimR]

So clemens wore #21 in 82/83, and Swindell wore it in 84/85/86?  Swindell was the better of the two in college yet Clemens gets the retired jersey because he's an egomanical asshole with a right arm on loan from the gods. 

Perfect.  Just perfect.

Not to get off on a tangent but what was the source of the friction between Shane Reynolds and Gustafson?

you think Swindell was good? look up Jim Gideon's records at UT. it was a travesty.

[Noe]

no. Gustafson did not take Reynolds to Omaha. left him home.

That would've been my other vague recollection!  I suck!

[JimR]

That'll do it.

Thanks.

CG did not like whiners. if he said "pitch," he expected them to pitch. both Shane and Roger refused if they thought their arms were too sore. CG hated that.

[WulawHorn]

he threatened to never contribute if it was not retired. not the point, but i do not know how much, if any, he has given. for a long time, it was next to nothing.

WTF? history? i told you the entire story.

Coach- your post was entered as I was typing mine- I thanked you in my next post for the back story- Thanks again- that was a misunderstanding as I was typing my post while you had posted yours above- mine was a response to Noe.

Clear?

[Kent's Moustache]

Don't ask Satan to the prom and then get upset when he whips out his fire cock and butt rapes you.

Wow... that's an effective--and visceral--bit of advice.

If there was a Degenerate's Bible, then this would certainly be canonized in its Book of Proverbs.

[Holly]

huh? he did not wear 21. they did.

No, I know Schiraldi didn't wear that number (and I understand why Swindell and Gideon were pissed). Just wondering whether Clemens' other ex-teammates were as torqued about the retirement.

[BudGirl]

he threatened to never contribute if it was not retired. not the point, but i do not know how much, if any, he has given. for a long time, it was next to nothing.

If anyone cares that much, they could probably submit an open records request.

[JimR]

Coach- your post was entered as I was typing mine- I thanked you in my next post for the back story- Thanks again- that was a misunderstanding as I was typing my post while you had posted yours above- mine was a response to Noe.

Clear?

yup

[JimR]

totally an aside, but during our ill-fated game in the 1997 State Tournament, Belisle hit a ball off the RCF wall that struck in between the 2 and the 1 on Clemens' sign. that is a long damn way from home plate. he hit it LH, and he did not start switch-hitting until the year before.

[VirtualBob]

you are one sick puppy. he was an asshole at UT, too, and Cliff Gustafson told me more than once that he was "gutless." he is universally disliked in UT baseball circles.

I prefer the term "naive", but you may be right.  As I said (or at least implied) in my original post, he didn't turn into a jerk ... I just finally noticed it.

[drew corleone]

This thread should be required reading for some of the numbnuts on HornFans.Com (and other UT sites) that still idolize Clemens for being a Horn.

[JimR]

This thread should be required reading for some of the numbnuts on HornFans.Com (and other UT sites) that still idolize Clemens for being a Horn.

to paraphrase Lance, there are two kinds of people who post on HornFans.com and Orangebloods.com: real UT fans (1%) and fucking idiots (do the math). most days, reading Orangebloods causes pain, and it is by far the better of the two sites..