Joe Morgan is a douche

[TheWizard]

Now I know most people hate Morgan as an announcer, while I never really cared much one way or the other.  Usually I listen to Milo or watch games with Brownie/JD, so I don't listen to Morgan call Astros games.  So I was kind of blown away when I randomly ran across this on Wikipedia:

Morgan has always been a critic of Houston Astros second baseman Craig Biggio. Although Morgan has never publicly admitted as to why he chooses to criticize Biggio, it is blatantly obvious anytime he calls a Houston Astros game. An example of Morgan criticizing Biggio was seen during a 2006 broadcast of ESPN Sunday Night Baseball. The subject of Biggio being a future member of the Hall of Fame came up and Morgan went out of his way to strongly disagree with Biggio being inducted. Many feel that Morgan has always been jealous of Biggio's success at second base and uses his personal dislike for the Houston Astros organization against him. It should be noted that even though Morgan does not approve of Biggio being inducted into the Hall of Fame, Biggio has better statistics in almost all major categories in 19 MLB seasons than Morgan does in 22 MLB seasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Morgan

It is an open Wiki entry, who feels like editing it to make Morgan look more like an asshat than the article does now.  Anyway, I was clueless, was everyone aware of Morgan's jealousy of Bidge?

[Mr. Happy]

Now I know most people hate Morgan as an announcer, while I never really cared much one way or the other.  Usually I listen to Milo or watch games with Brownie/JD, so I don't listen to Morgan call Astros games.  So I was kind of blown away when I randomly ran across this on Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Morgan

It is an open Wiki entry, who feels like editing it to make Morgan look more like an asshat than the article does now.  Anyway, I was clueless, was everyone aware of Morgan's jealousy of Bidge?

Remember, anyone can post on Wikipedia. I doubt that Morgan actually hates or is as jealous of Biggio as much as he hates the Astros organization. I'm not actually sure what happened between Morgan and the Astros organization. Morgan is in the Hall, and Biggio should be as well.

[homer]

Morgan also made the point that all of Biggio's statistics not earned as a second baseman (i.e. as a catcher or outfielder) should not count toward the HOF vote.

Yeah, he is that petty.

[Mr. Happy]

Morgan also made the point that all of Biggio's statistics not earned as a second baseman (i.e. as a catcher or outfielder) should not count toward the HOF vote.

Yeah, he is that petty.

To me though, Little Joe is still one of the faces of the Astros. Call me biased.

[TheWizard]

Morgan also made the point that all of Biggio's statistics not earned as a second baseman (i.e. as a catcher or outfielder) should not count toward the HOF vote.

Yeah, he is that petty.

That is laughable.

[ValpoCory]

Anyway, I was clueless, was everyone aware of Morgan's jealousy of Bidge?

Yes.  It's been a running topic for years.

[MRaup]

Yes.  It's been a running topic for years.

I just don't understand how people don't think/know this already...

Joe Morgan has been a douche for a LONG time.

[Ty in Tampa]

Joe Morgan has been a douche for a LONG time.

So, what's the difference, insult-wise, between a 'douche' and a 'douche nozzle'?

[Trey]

I just don't understand how people don't think/know this already...

Joe Morgan has been a douche for a LONG time.

Speaking of douche:

http://stlsportsmag.hostirian.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ap5highschool.jpg

[Limey]

Speaking of douche:

http://stlsportsmag.hostirian.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ap5highschool.jpg

...aged 7.

[Curly]

...aged 7.

LOL...age 7 and shaved more than Alkie already.

[Alkie]

LOL...age 7 and shaved more than Alkie already.

Ain't my fault I have St. Biggio's Disease.

[WulawHorn]

Agreed re- Joe Morgan.

He was a GREAT baseball player and as lousy a commentator as he was great as a player.

Totally and completely ill informed and ignorant when making comments as a commentator. The thing is I think his in game analysis is just fine, breaking down the nuts and bolts of what's going on. Get him into commentary like on bidge, or racial issues of the day and it is brutal.

[TheWizard]

So, what's the difference, insult-wise, between a 'douche' and a 'douche nozzle'?

I've come to like douche more than douche-bag lately.. it seems to have more of a sting to it.

[JackAstro]

Agreed re- Joe Morgan.

He was a GREAT baseball player and as lousy a commentator as he was great as a player.

Totally and completely ill informed and ignorant when making comments as a commentator. The thing is I think his in game analysis is just fine, breaking down the nuts and bolts of what's going on. Get him into commentary like on bidge, or racial issues of the day and it is brutal.

I think his nuts and bolts commentary is pretty fucking awful, too. He has a painful habit of making all manner of declarations about players' tendencies and recent performances, which are consistently wrong, and demonstrably so. This is because - by his own frequent admission - he watches very little actual baseball. He's well-qualified to talk about baseball generalities, but splits most of his time talking about either Joe Morgan / Joe Morgan's Reds, or current baseball specifics (which he isn't equipped to do). Listening to him yammer on is like getting punched repeatedly in the ear, only somewhat less pleasant.

[SoonerJim]

To me though, Little Joe is still one of the faces of the Astros. Call me biased.

I got home from school, and my father was listless, looking as though someone shot the family dog. When I asked why he was so glum, he cited the Cincy trade which occurred that day, and predicted three WS triumphs for the Reds. He got two.

He's not a face of the Astros to me because the thought is too disconcerting. Houston traded a host of talented young players during the GM reign of Spec Richardson.

[WulawHorn]

I think his nuts and bolts commentary is pretty fucking awful, too. He has a painful habit of making all manner of declarations about players' tendencies and recent performances, which are consistently wrong, and demonstrably so. This is because - by his own frequent admission - he watches very little actual baseball. He's well-qualified to talk about baseball generalities, but splits most of his time talking about either Joe Morgan / Joe Morgan's Reds, or current baseball specifics (which he isn't equipped to do). Listening to him yammer on is like getting punched repeatedly in the ear, only somewhat less pleasant.

I was referring to the baseball generalities stuff- like- "this is how you turn a double play- this is why that guy is shaded to this side- this is what that pitcher was trying to do with that pitch and why- stuff like that- I think he's informative on. Talking about any players/stats/trends not so much- that falls into his talking out of his ass

[Bench]

I was referring to the baseball generalities stuff- like- "this is how you turn a double play- this is why that guy is shaded to this side- this is what that pitcher was trying to do with that pitch and why- stuff like that- I think he's informative on. Talking about any players/stats/trends not so much- that falls into his talking out of his ass

I agree with you here. I know I'm in the vast minority, but I like listening to him and Miller on Sunday nights. Morgan has great insight into the smaller aspects of the game that you don't get with a lot of national color analysts *cough* Sutcliffe *cough*.

[Mr. Happy]

I got home from school, and my father was listless, looking as though someone shot the family dog. When I asked why he was so glum, he cited the Cincy trade which occurred that day, and predicted three WS triumphs for the Reds. He got two.

He's not a face of the Astros to me because the thought is too disconcerting. Houston traded a host of talented young players during the GM reign of Spec Richardson.

That was one of the sadder days of my life. Spec Richardson was an idiot.

[TheWizard]

I think his nuts and bolts commentary is pretty fucking awful, too. He has a painful habit of making all manner of declarations about players' tendencies and recent performances, which are consistently wrong, and demonstrably so. This is because - by his own frequent admission - he watches very little actual baseball. He's well-qualified to talk about baseball generalities, but splits most of his time talking about either Joe Morgan / Joe Morgan's Reds, or current baseball specifics (which he isn't equipped to do). Listening to him yammer on is like getting punched repeatedly in the ear, only somewhat less pleasant.

I try not to watch his ESPN broadcasts, but sometimes they do have a good game on.. so..  but anyway, everytime I've watched he has managed to bring up Joe Morgan's Reds.  Never once has he mentioned Joe Morgan's Astros, so I have no problem thinking he is an asshat.

[Sleepy]

He's an absolute grundle.  I associate such negativism with him, I can't even talk about him.

Jon Miller bugs me now, too, with his weird emphasis on the wrong words to make himself sound special.  And his in-your-face Spanish accent any time he names a player who might not be from Anglo-Saxon origin.  At first I was like, "Good for him, pronouncing that guy's name right."  Now it just drives me crazy.  You can almost see the player cringe at the overpronunciation of his name.  It reminds me of the kid in High School who went to Australia for a couple of weeks and called us "mates" for 6 months.  We brutalized him and he still wouldn't stop.  He didn't realize how ridiculous he sounded.  Miller also spoon-feeds Morgan his Reds comments throughout the telecast. They panned over to the booth one game and Miller actually had his head up Morgan's ass.

This year I caught myself scanning the rosters of the Yankees and Red Sox to see how many hispanic players they have and how I might have to suffer through Miller's pronunciations during this year's Sunday Night Baseball games.  Then I realized I couldn't bring myself to watch that combination of teams and broadcasters anyway.  I've got a bunch of hours to kill this year on Sunday nights.

[Amy]

Morgan makes me crazy.  There is practically no situation that he can't use to talk about himself or the Big Red Machine.  Then there is his hatred and abuse of the Astros and his worship of Bonds and Pujols.  Miller is there strictly to throw batting practice to Morgan.  I literally cannot stand to listen to them for more than about 10 minutes.  When forced to watch a game they are working, I have been known to switch over to the SAP and listen to the Spanish commentary even though I don't understand a word they're saying.

Oh, and how can I forget the racism?  That's charming too.

[Savage]

Morgan makes me crazy.  There is practically no situation that he can't use to talk about himself or the Big Red Machine.  Then there is his hatred and abuse of the Astros and his worship of Bonds and Pujols.  Miller is there strictly to throw batting practice to Morgan.  I literally cannot stand to listen to them for more than about 10 minutes.  When forced to watch a game they are working, I have been known to switch over to the SAP and listen to the Spanish commentary even though I don't understand a word they're saying.

Oh, and how can I forget the racism?  That's charming too.

You forgot the Pete Rose love.  it's my favorite.

[JackAstro]

Man, this is a good time. Pile on people, it feels good to get it all out...

[Mr. Happy]

Man, this is a good time. Pile on people, it feels good to get it all out...

Alrighty, if you can't beat them , join them. Fuck Joe Morgan, at least since 1990.

[Ty in Tampa]

My fiancee thinks Morgan's the greatest since he taught her how to score a baseball game when she was working with ESPN in college. She can't understand why I hate him so much. She never will.

[ValpoCory]

Agreed re- Joe Morgan.
 Get him into commentary like on bidge, or racial issues of the day and it is brutal.

You mean when Joe Morgan likened Don Imus to Cho Seung-Hui on the Dan Patrick radio show, it was in bad taste?

[Limey]

My fiancee thinks Morgan's the greatest since he taught her how to score a baseball game when she was working with ESPN in college. She can't understand why I hate him so much. She never will.

Let me save everyone's time and fast-forward this thread to its ultimate conclusions:

Even Hitler had a girlfriend.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled posting already in progress.

[Noe]

You mean when Joe Morgan likened Don Imus to Cho Seung-Hui on the Dan Patrick radio show, it was in bad taste?

If he said that, yes, it was in very bad taste.  Taking the tragedy at Virginia Tech and using it for your own gain is reprehensiable.  The folks who lost loved ones at VT should really be upset at Joe Morgan if he said that.  I know I would if I had lost my son in such a way.

[Trey]

If he said that, yes, it was in very bad taste.  Taking the tragedy at Virginia Tech and using it for your own gain is reprehensiable.  The folks who lost loved ones at VT should really be upset at Joe Morgan if he said that.  I know I would if I had lost my son in such a way.

http://shootyourhopesanddreams.blogspot.com/2007/04/joe-morgan-thinks-that-cho-seung-hui-is.html

There is a link in the blog to an ESPNinsider chat with Joe where he says this.  (Or, I assume he says this, I don't have insider privileges)

[Arky Vaughan]

I try not to watch his ESPN broadcasts, but sometimes they do have a good game on.. so..  but anyway, everytime I've watched he has managed to bring up Joe Morgan's Reds.  Never once has he mentioned Joe Morgan's Astros, so I have no problem thinking he is an asshat.

Not to defend Morgan, but is there any reason why he should be as nostalgic about the team that traded him as he is about the team that he won MVPs and World Series with? There are plenty of better reasons for thinking he's an asshat.

[Arky Vaughan]

If he said that, yes, it was in very bad taste.  Taking the tragedy at Virginia Tech and using it for your own gain is reprehensiable.  The folks who lost loved ones at VT should really be upset at Joe Morgan if he said that.  I know I would if I had lost my son in such a way.

I think Obama may have said something comparing VT and Imus too, but I could be wrong. Imus is a twit who was rightly blasted for what he said. Likening it to a murderous rampage seems a bit out of proportion.

[Noe]

I think Obama may have said something comparing VT and Imus too, but I could be wrong. Imus is a twit who was rightly blasted for what he said. Likening it to a murderous rampage seems a bit out of proportion.

A bit?  You're being generous.  It is grandizing and agenda driven and it shows very little to no compassion for a tragedy suffered by those at VT.  It is not related to IMUS nor should it be.  It is a madman who took lives of young people.  Leave it at that and do not pour salt in the wounds of those folks by trying to use it as fodder against, of all people, an insignificant talk show host.

It is classless and in very poor taste to do so.

[Limey]

I think Obama may have said something comparing VT and Imus too, but I could be wrong. Imus is a twit who was rightly blasted for what he said. Likening it to a murderous rampage seems a bit out of proportion.

Obama said that there are other types of violence apart from the physical violence at VT.  Such as "verbal violence", i.e. Imus.  He then went on to further stretch this bad metaphor to outsourcing and “the violence of children whose voices are not heard in communities that are ignored.”  Hoo boy...

[Noe]

Obama said that there are other types of violence apart from the physical violence at VT.  Such as "verbal violence", i.e. Imus.  He then went on to further stretch this bad metaphor to outsourcing and “the violence of children whose voices are not heard in communities that are ignored.”  Hoo boy...

Can any of these political vultures give the people of the VT violence a chance to grieve properly without pouring salt into the wounds?  What in the name of human decency is wrong with these folks!

There is plenty of opportunity for Obama and others to use their bully pulpit to preach against the evils of hate speech.  Fine, do it.  But for goodness sakes, let people who suffered a great tragedy the time and peace to grieve.

Idiots.

[Limey]

Can any of these political vultures give the people of the VT violence a chance to grieve properly without pouring salt into the wounds?  What in the name of human decency is wrong with these folks!

There is plenty of opportunity for Obama and others to use their bully pulpit to preach against the evils of hate speech.  Fine, do it.  But for goodness sakes, let people who suffered a great tragedy the time and peace to grieve.

Idiots.

They have policy issues to stump, so when they get asked about an event such as VT, they decry it, then try to meander from that to what they actually want to pitch.  How about simply decrying it, commenting on it directly, paying it the deference it is due and then cleanly and clearly changing the subject?

Here's an example:

Good morning. I'm distressed to hear about the latest suicide bombers in Israel. For those who yearn for peace in the Middle East, for those in the Arab lands, for those in Europe, for those all around the world who yearn for peace, we must do everything we possibly can to stop the terror.

There are a few killers who want to stop the peace process that we have started, and we must not let them. For the sake of humanity, for the sake of the Palestinians who suffer, for the sake of the Israelis who are under attack, we must stop the terror.  I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers.  Thank you.

Now watch this drive.

G. W. Bush
Cape Arundel Golf Club
Kennebunkport, Maine
August 4, 2002

[Trey]

They have policy issues to stump, so when they get asked about an event such as VT, they decry it, then try to meander from that to what they actually want to pitch.  How about simply decrying it, commenting on it directly, paying it the deference it is due and then cleanly and clearly changing the subject?

Here's an example:

G. W. Bush
Cape Arundel Golf Club
Kennebunkport, Maine
August 4, 2002

Baton down the hatches, boys.  There's a storm a-brewin'

[Limey]

Baton down the hatches, boys.  There's a storm a-brewin'

No partisan hackery here:  I was just highlighting the dilemma all politician's face.  They get asked about stuff and have to juggle answering the question and forwarding their message.  If you do what W. did - and he was on a golf course when asked the question - you get lampooned for it.  Damned if you do...

Of course, they all choose to be politicians...so fuck 'em.

[Kent's Moustache]

Obama said that there are other types of violence apart from the physical violence at VT.  Such as "verbal violence", i.e. Imus.  He then went on to further stretch this bad metaphor to outsourcing and “the violence of children whose voices are not heard in communities that are ignored.”  Hoo boy...

Wow, they must be teaching a differeny definition of the word "violence" at Columbia and Harvard Law than what we simpletons learn out here on the frontier.

Or, maybe it's a Kenyan thing.

[MusicMan]

Wow, they must be teaching a differeny definition of the word "violence" at Columbia and Harvard Law than what we simpletons learn out here on the frontier.

1 a : exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse (as in warfare effecting illegal entry into a house) b : an instance of violent treatment or procedure
2 : injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : OUTRAGE
3 a : intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force <the violence of the storm> b : vehement feeling or expression : FERVOR; also : an instance of such action or feeling c : a clashing or jarring quality : DISCORDANCE
4 : undue alteration (as of wording or sense in editing a text)

[Noe]

They have policy issues to stump, so when they get asked about an event such as VT, they decry it, then try to meander from that to what they actually want to pitch.  How about simply decrying it, commenting on it directly, paying it the deference it is due and then cleanly and clearly changing the subject?

Here's an example:

G. W. Bush
Cape Arundel Golf Club
Kennebunkport, Maine
August 4, 2002

I don't see the relationship of your example to what I was saying.  But that's just me of course.

[TheWizard]

Not to defend Morgan, but is there any reason why he should be as nostalgic about the team that traded him as he is about the team that he won MVPs and World Series with? There are plenty of better reasons for thinking he's an asshat.

True.  But I was just saying that because someone mentioned they still thought of him as little Joe from the Astros so they found it hard to hate him - but I am both too young to remember that, and I find it easy to hate him now knowing what he thinks/how he always talks about the stupid Reds.

[Limey]

I don't see the relationship of your example to what I was saying.  But that's just me of course.

Bush was playing golf, was asked about the current (at the time) Israeli-Hezbollah fighting, commented on it, said "Thank you" and changed the subject to golf.  The soundbite is often used to ridicule Bush, but he answered the question and got back to what he was doing.  It's not as if there aren't enough legitimate examples of Bush saying stupid things (for example, today is the 4th anniversary of Mission Accomplished).

Obama got criticised (rightly, IMHO) for stretching the VT tragedy to other issues on which he is campaigning.  But these are the two ends of the same spectrum.

[Noe]

Bush was playing golf, was asked about the current (at the time) Israeli-Hezbollah fighting, commented on it, said "Thank you" and changed the subject to golf.  The soundbite is often used to ridicule Bush, but he answered the question and got back to what he was doing.  It's not as if there aren't enough legitimate examples of Bush saying stupid things (for example, today is the 4th anniversary of Mission Accomplished).

Obama got criticised (rightly, IMHO) for stretching the VT tragedy to other issues on which he is campaigning.  But these are the two ends of the same spectrum.

Still don't see what that has to do with what I was opining about, but like I said, it's me, not you.  I don't want to blast Obama or Bush or even Joe Morgan.  I just was of the opinion that when a tragedy of the magnitude of the VT happens, sensible people just say "no comment" and move on to allow the families to grieve properly.

Rarely do you see or read people who decide to add insult to injury unless they have no sensibility towards the tragedy.  If you think what Bush said or did during your example fits this, then fine.  I just don't see it is all.

[Greg M]

Can anybody provide a link to Obama's comments?  I know Joe Biden spewed that drivel.

[Limey]

Can anybody provide a link to Obama's comments?  I know Joe Biden spewed that drivel.

Here's a link to a purported full transcipt of the speech.  Better to read it in context than in clipped form.

[JimR]

I got home from school, and my father was listless, looking as though someone shot the family dog. When I asked why he was so glum, he cited the Cincy trade which occurred that day, and predicted three WS triumphs for the Reds. He got two.

He's not a face of the Astros to me because the thought is too disconcerting. Houston traded a host of talented young players during the GM reign of Spec Richardson.

several years ago, they had a reunion of Astros great players at the Dome. when asked about the Cincy trade, Rader stated that it enabled the Astros to become a better team. pressed further, Rader explained that the Astros did not know how to win, but when May, Helms and the other Reds players came over, they made a big difference in the Astros' attitude and in how they played the game. he saw the trade as a positive for the teams he was on.