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Messages - JimR

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1
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: Yesterday at 08:10:47 pm »
This twitter thread has pictures of the video station, taken from the World Series documentary. Some of the pictures show two chairs, food and drink containers and a bunch of sunflower shells, suggesting that people were working there during the game. I'm trying to figure out why somebody would be watching game video from that spot:

-Watching and taking notes for review and study after the game? That could be done from the clubhouse.
-Using a phone or radio to relay signs to somebody in the dugout or bullpen who alerts hitters with hand signals? That also could be done from the clubhouse. Phones in the dugout/bullpen would also be a problem after Boston was caught spying.
-Using the trashcan drum to relay signs to hitters, as was allegedly done in regular season games? Postseason crowd noise would make that very hard if not impossible. The Baseball Prospectus article where they studied postseason audio and could not find the same pattern from the regular season seems to confirm this.

So what does that leave?

-Did somebody watching video relay voice or hand signals to somebody at the tunnel entrance who passed on voice or hand signals to the batters? Very bad.
-Did they watch the video, take notes about the opposition and share their observations with the dugout between innings? (They'd want to be closer than the clubhouse to do this and phones would be a problem.) Not as bad as relaying a live spy feed to the hitters, but probably still over the line.
-Did they watch their own players for mechanical issues, pitch tipping and poorly concealed signs and give the dugout updates between innings?

Anyone have some other ideas?

Hell no, Sherlock. You are on a roll.

2
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: Yesterday at 11:10:55 am »
If all of these reports are true, it sounds like the Astros were gearing up for war late in the season. All of these events... experimenting with electronic spying, ordering hyper-vigilance from the scouts... were in August and September. This was after the Red Sox and Yankees... two likely postseason opponents... were caught spying. Were they acting on the assumption that they'd be spied on in the playoffs and had to retaliate? Or had they been running a phone-based scheme similar to that of the Red Sox (now impossible) and were trying to figure out other ways to gain advantage? It's noteworthy that the Yankees caught the Red Sox by photographing their dugout, and the Astros front office was asking for something similar in those e-mails.

Oh, please. WTF do you think scouts do if they only scout major league teams?

3
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: Yesterday at 09:34:52 am »
The messages described violations of norms. From what I can tell, nothing asked from the scouts was technically illegal. But the messages could be explained as indication of intent, that they showed the Astros were willing to push the envelope too far...

If the story told so far is true, it's really odd that the scouts pushed back against behavior that was an order of magnitude less severe than real time electronic spying, but the players didn't complain about what they were asked to do (or accept).

This is nonsense. What do you think scouts do? Much of their job when scouting major league teams is to pick up details which help their team win. To do it with cameras instead of writing a report is a guarantee of accuracy. Scouts sit behind home plate or in a press box. Is someone saying they can see the catcher’s signs from their seats?

4
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 16, 2019, 01:10:05 pm »
Go fuck yourself.  Your assumption is based on nothing other than the bullshit spewing from a bunch of anti-Astros hacks pretending to be journalists.  There's no evidence to support the accusation.  This team deserves your support; not to be thrown under the bus.

The first sentence is way too harsh, but I agree with the rest of it.

5
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 16, 2019, 12:53:52 pm »
Manfred has already said the Jomboy video is indisputable proof of an illegal camera system.  That all that's left is determining the level of punishment.  There will be no investigation and no "reliable sources".  The Yankees are demanding the Astros head on a platter, and MLB has no choice but to deliver it.

Seriously? That is bullshit. That “breakdown” proved nothing about a camera.

ETA: I have not read this anywhere and find it difficult he (or anyone) would say it with an investigation in progress.

6
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 16, 2019, 10:05:27 am »
I wonder if it was something as simple as monitoring the local AT&T camera in centerfield. The TV announcers often read signs and call the pitch when they see the catcher's signal, and that camera must stay active all game even when the broadcast team isn't using it. There may be dedicated feeds inside the stadium from that camera where someone watching could always watch the catcher. Or someone could have tapped into the feed.

I've always thought, it's interesting that the pitcher, catcher, and everyone watching at home knows which pitch is coming, because we saw the signal from the centerfield camera. And I've also thought, I wish there was someway I could tell the Astro batting what the signal was. So maybe they figured out a way to send that message to the batter. It's just a matter of timing to get him the message before the pitch is thrown. The camera to see the catcher's signal has always been there ... there was just no way to inform the batter quickly enough. Sounds like they perfected a system to do it.

The “old as dirt” system which we used at UT in 1967 was first name fastball, last name curve. The coach got the pitch from me (coaching first base), and the coach gave the pitch to hitters who wanted to know with this system. Some did not.

The trash can signal maybe was the answer to crowd noise. That part does not violate any rule. The issue, of course, is how the Astros got the sign or the tip. If it came from any camera, that is not allowed. I am waiting for a more reliable source than Fiers to say the Astros used cameras in game to steal signs. Beltran said no.

7
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 15, 2019, 09:47:01 pm »
The Athletic article has a picture of the tunnel behind the dugout.  There is a disconnected data cable haphazardly strung along the wall, with a coiled end dangling directly above a big trashcan. The side of the trashcan has a big wear spot that looks like it's been beaten to shit.  Again, not conclusive, but it sure looks like it's what they say it is.

I am going to ask again-how do you know the tip came from video?

8
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 15, 2019, 07:30:20 pm »
There are many different videos with many different Astros batters playing against many different teams where the beating can be heard.

If they're picking up signs in the dugout, why the fuck would they have some goon beating on a trash can in the hallway? They could just do first name, last name. Or whistle Dixie, you know, normal things.

Agree re trash can. Makes zero sense.

9
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 15, 2019, 05:35:43 pm »
The banging can be heard before the pitcher comes set.

I did this for three years!!!! Often the grip tells you. Sometimes the catcher does.

Are you saying you know the code or is Jomboy influencing you? Do you know it was coming from the Astros dugout? How can you tell? How do you know the “banger” got the sign from a camera? If so, anyone in the dugout knows. Did Beltran flat out lie?

10
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 15, 2019, 03:28:13 pm »
1. I believe they used electronics illegally
2. I believe they'll be punished
3. I don't like that this violation happened
4. I don't buy for 1 second all the feigned anger/disbelief coming from unnamed MLB sources.  It's like a college football team complaining that another school is paying players. Or a politician calling someone a hypocrite.
5. Justice would demand that the schemes of other teams be revealed.   But this isn't a courtroom and the Astros could totally get hung out to dry.

As of this moment, I disagree with #1. Beltran is the only Astro to comment, and he said no. Maybe it is the lawyer in me, but I do not reach conclusions until after investigations, not before. The Astros are getting crucified, all of their successes are attributed to cheating, and the bloodthirsty ones in the media are having a field day impugning the integrity of each player, not only management. I hope the team fights back hard when the time comes.

11
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 15, 2019, 02:34:06 pm »
What pisses me off is the way this diminishes the Astros offensive accomplishments. And that Nightingale article implies that Darvish got a lesser contact because the Astros cheated. Fuck him.

This is my main source of anger also. The Astros and their achievements are getting crucified by bloodthirsty media speculation or by other players. Only Beltran has responded. Maybe MLB, Crane, or Luhnow instructed Astros players not to comment, but the Astros’ lack of an emphatic response is hurting them.

12
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 15, 2019, 12:32:23 pm »
Martyr complex? Not this guy. I am furious.

13
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 15, 2019, 07:10:54 am »
One article today is quoting unidentified GMs as wanting the 2017 WS title vacated.

14
Talk Zone / Re: Signal stealing haiku
« on: November 15, 2019, 06:39:36 am »
Altuve up. Great!
Crucial runs, second and third.
BANG. K flailing. Fuck.

15
Talk Zone / Re: Signal stealing haiku
« on: November 14, 2019, 08:42:12 pm »
There was a time when this site would have known exactly how to respond to allegations of illegal sign stealing.  Let's remember our glory. Offer up your sign stealing haiku.

Camera relay,
Pound bats against metal can.
Batter takes a curve.

HOF

16
Talk Zone / Re: Awards
« on: November 14, 2019, 05:48:55 pm »
If two of the voters who had JV first and Cole second had changed to Cole first and JV second - it would have been a tie.  Would have liked to have seen that.  Close vote.

Wow. So would I.

17
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 14, 2019, 04:22:28 pm »
But the good news is, this just gives the Astros another way to fuck with other teams. You'll have guys on the bench doing the Bridge Over the River Kwai, some joker in the hallway going Keith Moon on a trash can, dudes in the bullpen lined up waving like human semaphore... Next season is shaping up to be a lot of fun, Cole or no Cole.

I like it.

18
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 14, 2019, 03:46:04 pm »
And like the batter would be concentrating on the bullpen instead of the pitcher...what a load of horseshit.

Nah, the bullpen guy is signaling the guy in the dugout who is doing the banging. The hitter is listening for the banging.

19
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 14, 2019, 03:10:09 pm »
The latest from  Score:

some details of how the scheme operated.

Trevor Plouffe, a nine-year veteran who last played in 2018, explained that the Astros used a live feed to capture the opposing catcher's signals to the pitcher, then used technology to relay that information to the bullpen catcher, who would then indicate whether the pitch was a fastball or offspeed by putting his hands up on the fence or keeping them down. Plouffe's information came courtesy of big-league pitcher Carson Smith as well as an unnamed source.

20
Talk Zone / Re: More controversy
« on: November 14, 2019, 03:04:26 pm »
He'd need to climb several pegs to reach that status.

Ha.

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